| Scoreboard for Tue. March 4, 2008 |  |
 |
 |
 |
 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Total Viewers (million) | 20.94 | 8.91 | 7.72 | 5.41 | 2.30 |
| Rating/Share: Adults 18-49 | 7.5/18 | 3.3/8 | 2.1/5 | 1.8/5 | 1.1/3 |
FOX and American Idol continued its dominance, but as fans of American Idol aren’t worried about the show being cancelled I’m jumping directly to Big Brother 9, Jericho and CBS bashing.
First let me be clear: fans of Big Brother and Jericho, I love you. I’m pretty sure Bill G. does too, but I don’t like professing love on behalf of other people. But Bill and I both fancy ourselves as hack business analysts and we are trying to understand the business. CBS’ decision to continue with Big Brother 9 and Jericho in these slots doesn’t make sense to me.
But the news is worse, and far worse for Jericho than it is for Big Brother. Big Brother can lay claim to at least outperforming the rerun of NCIS in the 18-49 demo and it has the following going for it: it doesn’t cost anything to make (relatively speaking) and it has the good fortune, at least on Tuesdays, of facing off against According to Jim and Carpoolers on ABC
Jericho doesn’t have those luxuries, and finished dead last in viewers and the 18-49 demo in a time period won by a rerun of Law & Order: SVU on NBC.
It’s great that the PR flacks at CBS are trumpeting all the alternative/online video sources for watching Jericho, but the purpose of being in business is to make money. If you don’t want to trust my analysis about the television industry in general, I don’t blame you! 
But trust me about this: CBS (nor any network) has figured out how to monetize (make money) with the online stuff yet, so none of that’s particularly meaningful to the networks today in March 2008. Someday it will be hugely meaningful, but today is not that day.
Whenever and however CBS pulls the plug, Jericho is absolutely done on CBS. The good news for the fans is CBS seems to want to let it run its course. I’d suggest to the fans that your problem isn’t with CBS, it’s with the producers of Jericho. If you really want to save this show and have it continue, don’t send nuts to CBS, send them to the producers and BEG THEM to move this show onto the CW or some other network. Jericho would be the most popular show on the CW and could thrive there. The producers, actors, writers and everyone else involved in Jericho would have to take a bit pay cut to do that. They may not want to, and I won’t hold that against them, but I believe the show could thrive on another network, just not a major broadcast network (sorry CW, you’re not major, but I love, love, love me some Supernatural anyway!).
In other news, the premiere of FOX’s New Amsterdam was the second most watched thing on television last night even though it lost more than half the lead-in from Idol and then lost even more in the second half hour.
Today’s (as well as the next few days) worth of data were half-hourly, and though that is sort of a pain in the butt for me to clean that up and make it look pretty in the table below, it is a lot more informative. Jericho has great fans because they stay the whole hour! Jericho gained a few viewers the second half hour. But that’s the only good news. If you really want to save your show, beg the producers to take the necessary pay cuts (it could still be profitable!) and move it to CW or one of the cable nets. It’s just not a show that makes sense (from a business perspective) on a major broadcast television network.
Update 3/5 11:20a PST: One of the commenters brought up that I should’ve mentioned that election results were a big deal yesterday in some states and impacted ratings. I agree, I should’ve mentioned it. Now I have. Sadly, barring a miraculous amount of new viewers in the coming weeks, my opinion remains Jericho is toast on CBS regardless.
The night’s full (half hourly) details:
| Time | Network | Show | Viewers (Millons) | 18-49 Rating/Share | HH Rating |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 8:00 | FOX | American Idol | 26.5 | 9.7/25 | 15.2 |
| CBS | NCIS (Repeat) | 10.5 | 2.1/5 | 6.9 | |
| NBC | The Biggest Loser | 6.96 | 2.8/7 | 4.5 | |
| ABC | Just for Laughs | 5.04 | 1.3/3 | 3.4 | |
| CW | Americas Next Top Model (Repeat) | 1.64 | 0.7/2 | 1.2 | |
| 8:30 | FOX | American Idol | 29.95 | 11.2/27 | 16.7 |
| CBS | NCIS (Repeat) | 10.74 | 2.2/5 | 7 | |
| NBC | The Biggest Loser | 7.41 | 3.2/8 | 4.7 | |
| ABC | Just for Laughs (Repeat) | 4.83 | 1.4/3 | 3.2 | |
| CW | Americas Next Top Model (Repeat) | 1.57 | 0.7/2 | 1.1 | |
| 9:00 | FOX | New Amsterdam (Premiere) | 14.94 | 5.1/12 | 9 |
| CBS | Big Brother 9 | 7.08 | 2.6/6 | 4.6 | |
| NBC | The Biggest Loser | 9.56 | 3.8/9 | 6 | |
| ABC | According to Jim | 5.58 | 1.9/5 | 3.7 | |
| CW | One Tree Hill | 2.92 | 1.4/3 | 2 | |
| 9:30 | FOX | New Amsterdam (Premiere) | 12.37 | 4.0/10 | 7.5 |
| CBS | Big Brother 9 | 6.25 | 2.4/6 | 4.1 | |
| NBC | The Biggest Loser | 10.76 | 4.4/11 | 6.9 | |
| ABC | Carpoolers | 4.17 | 1.5/4 | 2.8 | |
| CW | One Tree Hill | 3.05 | 1.5/4 | 2.1 | |
| 10:00 | ABC | Primetime: What Would You Do? | 6.3 | 2.2/6 | 4.4 |
| CBS | Jericho | 5.85 | 1.8/5 | 3.9 | |
| NBC | Law & Order: SVU (Repeat) | 9.37 | 2.9/8 | 6.5 | |
| 10:30 | ABC | Primetime: What Would You Do? | 6.52 | 2.3/7 | 4.6 |
| CBS | Jericho | 5.91 | 1.8/5 | 4 | |
| NBC | Law & Order: SVU (Repeat) | 9.41 | 2.9/8 | 6.5 |
Nielsen Ratings Source: Nielsen Media Research. Full night’s results available via Marc Berman/Mediaweek.
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March 5th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
According to this report, no one watched election results? Um, complaints across the nation about regularly scheduled shows like Jericho being interrupted for elections pre-empting the whole show! Why no mention?
March 5th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
I find the ratings to be a bit toasted! There were 4 states that had no programming except election coverage last night. Yet the Nielsen overnights read the same as they always do! Texas and Ohio are not small states with just a few viewers……..Does Nielsen not apply to those 4 states on any given week?
I find this system shows more visible flaws all the time!
March 5th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
save jericho
March 5th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
The data we have is the data we have, but you're right, I should've at least mentioned it!
growing up in Washington, DC and spending ~30 years there, I absolutely hate politics and everything involved in it. Also the election results would have impacted all the other shows too.
There may be a case to be made that it could've impacted Jericho more, but…still toast.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
It is amazing the 2nd largest state in population with the number one tv market in Dallas/Fort Worth was watching election results so how do the numbers not change. Also large areas like Cleveland and Cinicinati were watching election results. So all this data that they sell ads with and base which shows get kept and which ones are canceled. How can someone pay millions of dollars for ad space if the numbers are skewed like this?
March 5th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
“Jericho” aired in Houston, Texas last night from 2:30 am to 3:30 am. All network affiliates aired election returns in prime time rather than the last hour of network prime time. I expect the same was true throughout Ohio and Texas. Of course Jericho's competition didn't air either, but it could explain Jericho's poor performance relative to last week, in which the entire network carried the show.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Jake it's not amazing. It is what it is and it's also reasonable to use these numbers anyway. Were Jericho's numbers impacted? Sure. But so were Law & Order: SVU's.
The problem with Jericho isn't how advertising sales are done or how Nielsen works. The problem for Jericho is that not enough people watch it for it to be on a broadcast network like CBS. You could have added back in a million and a half viewers — it still doesn't belong on CBS.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
To many people's points above, since the election shows were not on the national broadcast networks they don't appear in our overnight broadcast results.
Any local election shows would not appear in any information we see.
I'm sure there were people watching either cable news or local election shows [in those states], and they did reduce numbers somewhat, but it's hard to know by how much.
We will have cable news results for last night posted by Friday, so at least you can see how many folks were watching cable news in primetime last night.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
let me add on — it's better for you fans to be practical and encourage the producers to take the show elsewhere. Perhaps one of my all-time favorte shows was Stargate: SG1. It started on showtime and ended on SciFi. They figured out how to make money doing the show via cable, syndication and DVDs.
I LOVED the show. I miss Thor, Jack O, Daniel Jackson, etc. I like that it all continues on in some way with Stargate Atlantis.
So what I am saying is I LOVE Stargate as I know MILLIONS of others do. But, it still would not have made any sense on a major broadcast network.
Jericho doesn't either. It's not about whether the show is good, or whether it has millions of fans.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
You said: CBS (nor any network) has figured out how to monetize (make money) with the online stuff yet, so none of that’s particularly meaningful to the networks today in March 2008. Someday it will be hugely meaningful, but today is not that day.
-
I disagree. I think today is the day. How can you say they are not making money with it's online success? That to me, is amazing. As a stockholder, I'm quite happy with what I see.
I think some of you that analyze are just like nielsen, not up to par yet with new media, which is where the future of Television is going. Right. Now.
Sure, Jericho is not a killer show against one that has been around for NINE seasons in terms of nielsen ratings, but it has one foot in the network and the other in new media. Can Law & Order: SVU say that? Nope. How many shows CAN say that? There aren't many.
Whoever decides to embrace those type of shows are going to come out the leader in the industry. Bet on it!
Les Moonves does plan to pursue New Media. Imagine that..
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6537223.html
March 5th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Lily, I've been watching video on my ipod for over 2 years. I can beam internet tv to my 61″ widescreen.
Internet viewing is NOT a profit center today. That doesn't mean Les and other's shouldn't pursue it. I of course believe they should. Since it can't yet effectively be measured, advertisers won't pay much for it. Until that changes, it's just the way it is.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
I once again watched it online (and had it recorded on my tivo, but my tivo has trouble recording CBS)
I wish CBS would post how many people watched it online, to at least get a better idea of who is watching it.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:02 am
According to this report, no one watched election results? Um, complaints across the nation about regularly scheduled shows like Jericho being interrupted for elections pre-empting the whole show! Why no mention?
March 5th, 2008 at 11:03 am
I find the ratings to be a bit toasted! There were 4 states that had no programming except election coverage last night. Yet the Nielsen overnights read the same as they always do! Texas and Ohio are not small states with just a few viewers……..Does Nielsen not apply to those 4 states on any given week?
I find this system shows more visible flaws all the time!
March 5th, 2008 at 11:17 am
save jericho
March 5th, 2008 at 11:17 am
The data we have is the data we have, but you’re right, I should’ve at least mentioned it!
growing up in Washington, DC and spending ~30 years there, I absolutely hate politics and everything involved in it. Also the election results would have impacted all the other shows too.
There may be a case to be made that it could’ve impacted Jericho more, but…still toast.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Question, when CBS has the rights to the show, how is it the producers fault if Jericho is canceled. It appears the producers *have been trying* to get Jericho picked up elsewhere, but I'm guessing they have to be on a short leash having to wait for word from CBS and then get a deal with another network and retain at least a decent amount of people on the show before they move on. It sounds like a near impossible feat to me. The producers did not stick this show on at 10pm AFTER Big Brother (you telling me those people will turn their brains back on for Jericho?) on an American Idol night. No, it is their part that the came through with a *brilliant* season on a slashed budget, less time and with only 7 episodes. So, I think it is very unfair to be saying the producers aren't doing anything or should be doing more to save the show.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
So just why have networks allowed DVDs, iTunes, and streaming to happen with shows if it is not monetized in some fashion? They can't possibly be doing it out of generosity. I admit to that data is data, but it's never going to be. that. day. Until people get ticked enough to push it. I've said it before, I'm done with viewing current television if this goes because everytime I like a show passionately, it is yanked away from me like a spiteful parent pulling away the second half of a candy bar that was originally gleefully given.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Nielsen is not effectively measuring now. Every measurement they take requires human interaction on the part of participants.
Press a button. Fill out a diary. Oops, you're watching something but you forgot to press that flashing button on your nielsen remote to indicate you are in fact sitting in front of your TV. oh well. That person just cost some show millions of viewers.
Not to mention the amount of boxes out (what, 25,000?) in comparison to total households with television sets. 112 million? That's a joke, right?
My point is the whole human error factor is to great to be ignored – nielsen measurement techniques are too antiquated for today's markets. Every household wants to be counted and the outcry for that is getting louder everyday.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
I think this show lost alot of fans who are politically conservative with the over the top comparison of Kansas to Iraq. Battlestar Galacticas rating tanked after their Season 3 when they did a whole season comparing Caprica to Iraq. With all the anti-Iraq war movies bombing at the box office and what happened with BSG, one would think CBS and the makers of Jericho would have learned from that. Guess not. Hopefully they can get on cable somewhere and turn the show around and not alienate a significant chunk of its fan base.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Someone posted today on how hers was a Nielsen family but her ex-husband (now) controlled the remote, switching constantly between sports channels and she had to watch her programs at other houses. How often are Nielsen views actually controlled by one member? But it is moot. I will be told that Nielsen's are the only measures and that's just how it is.
BTW, the ratings dip two Tuesdays apart. Weren't those BOTH election Tuesdays? Is that suspicious at all looking at the bounce? It seems to me *something* is affecting them other than disinterest.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:29 am
It is amazing the 2nd largest state in population with the number one tv market in Dallas/Fort Worth was watching election results so how do the numbers not change. Also large areas like Cleveland and Cinicinati were watching election results. So all this data that they sell ads with and base which shows get kept and which ones are canceled. How can someone pay millions of dollars for ad space if the numbers are skewed like this?
March 5th, 2008 at 11:32 am
“Jericho” aired in Houston, Texas last night from 2:30 am to 3:30 am. All network affiliates aired election returns in prime time rather than the last hour of network prime time. I expect the same was true throughout Ohio and Texas. Of course Jericho’s competition didn’t air either, but it could explain Jericho’s poor performance relative to last week, in which the entire network carried the show.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
I think that the ratings have stayed remarkably stable (even if not the CSI/LOST type of ratings they have been stable.) and it has nothing to do with politicizing anything (which IMO this is much more about giving up freedoms little by little or living like a large number of the world than Iraq). It has much more to do with scheduling, huge hiatus', running the reruns early in the summer and premiering the second season mid-spring and being a serial.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Jake it’s not amazing. It is what it is and it’s also reasonable to use these numbers anyway. Were Jericho’s numbers impacted? Sure. But so were Law & Order: SVU’s.
The problem with Jericho isn’t how advertising sales are done or how Nielsen works. The problem for Jericho is that not enough people watch it for it to be on a broadcast network like CBS. You could have added back in a million and a half viewers — it still doesn’t belong on CBS.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:36 am
To many people’s points above, since the election shows were not on the national broadcast networks they don’t appear in our overnight broadcast results.
Any local election shows would not appear in any information we see.
I’m sure there were people watching either cable news or local election shows [in those states], and they did reduce numbers somewhat, but it’s hard to know by how much.
We will have cable news results for last night posted by Friday, so at least you can see how many folks were watching cable news in primetime last night.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Robert, I'm curious about your take on the New Amsterdam pilot.
I'm assuming if the show does okay it'll find it's audience level in the next few episodes, but the drop off of a few million viewers at the half hour has me wondering about other premiers. Did the audience for Sarah Connor drop off or gain during the premier? I know that it went up slightly during the finale, but that was well after it had settled down with a core audience.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:40 am
let me add on — it’s better for you fans to be practical and encourage the producers to take the show elsewhere. Perhaps one of my all-time favorte shows was Stargate: SG1. It started on showtime and ended on SciFi. They figured out how to make money doing the show via cable, syndication and DVDs.
I LOVED the show. I miss Thor, Jack O, Daniel Jackson, etc. I like that it all continues on in some way with Stargate Atlantis.
So what I am saying is I LOVE Stargate as I know MILLIONS of others do. But, it still would not have made any sense on a major broadcast network.
Jericho doesn’t either. It’s not about whether the show is good, or whether it has millions of fans.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
I know of several people who quit watching Jericho because of the Iraq plot line. Blaming the Nielsen system is pointless. Look at NCIS Tuesday at 8pm- a show that is positive on the military – it gets nearly 11 million viewers running up against American Idol. When Jericho was up against Idol at 8PM Wednesdays it was lucky to manage 8 million viewers for a first run episode, let alone a re-run. Jericho averaged 8-9 million for 2nd part of Season 2. This season, it was lucky to get 7 million. 1-2 million viewers from the stable season 1 ratings vanished. The plot line is the likely answer.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:44 am
You said: CBS (nor any network) has figured out how to monetize (make money) with the online stuff yet, so none of that’s particularly meaningful to the networks today in March 2008. Someday it will be hugely meaningful, but today is not that day.
-
I disagree. I think today is the day. How can you say they are not making money with it’s online success? That to me, is amazing. As a stockholder, I’m quite happy with what I see.
I think some of you that analyze are just like nielsen, not up to par yet with new media, which is where the future of Television is going. Right. Now.
Sure, Jericho is not a killer show against one that has been around for NINE seasons in terms of nielsen ratings, but it has one foot in the network and the other in new media. Can Law & Order: SVU say that? Nope. How many shows CAN say that? There aren’t many.
Whoever decides to embrace those type of shows are going to come out the leader in the industry. Bet on it!
Les Moonves does plan to pursue New Media. Imagine that..
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6537223.html
March 5th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Lily, I’ve been watching video on my ipod for over 2 years. I can beam internet tv to my 61″ widescreen.
Internet viewing is NOT a profit center today. That doesn’t mean Les and other’s shouldn’t pursue it. I of course believe they should. Since it can’t yet effectively be measured, advertisers won’t pay much for it. Until that changes, it’s just the way it is.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
No the answer is this: If one little show, Jericho, can prove the nielsen rating system is flawed, down goes the monopoly. It's really that simple.
nielsen numbers flip flop all over
online buzz remains consistent and continues to grow.
You tell me what's going on.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
The problem with serial dramas like Jericho is that there are many people ,like me, who wont watch if they missed first few episodes. I thought the show sounded intriguing when I heard about it last year but never got around to watching it. However, I caught a few minutes of episode #1 season #2 and bought the box set for first season. Now Im up to date. Also the first serial Ive watched in its entirety and looks like its toast.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
I once again watched it online (and had it recorded on my tivo, but my tivo has trouble recording CBS)
I wish CBS would post how many people watched it online, to at least get a better idea of who is watching it.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Frank, I didn't watch the premiere of New Amsterdam (largely because local TV critic Tim Goodman, whose tastes very often mirror my own crushed it like a bug).
Sarah experienced something similar though she had higher ratings in the Sunday night premiere following a football game (18.29 million) than she did the next night (10.07 m) in her regular time slot after Prison Break. I suspect ~8 million is the core audience for Sarah.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Lily, here's what's going on:
online buzz does not = $$
Nielsen ratings points DO = $$
Someday online ratings points WILL = $$
Someday is not today. By the way, I watched about 8 episodes of Jericho on my iPhone. I'm pretty sure I have the new media figured out just fine. I had my first TiVo DVR in 1998, how about you?
March 5th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Question, when CBS has the rights to the show, how is it the producers fault if Jericho is canceled. It appears the producers *have been trying* to get Jericho picked up elsewhere, but I’m guessing they have to be on a short leash having to wait for word from CBS and then get a deal with another network and retain at least a decent amount of people on the show before they move on. It sounds like a near impossible feat to me. The producers did not stick this show on at 10pm AFTER Big Brother (you telling me those people will turn their brains back on for Jericho?) on an American Idol night. No, it is their part that the came through with a *brilliant* season on a slashed budget, less time and with only 7 episodes. So, I think it is very unfair to be saying the producers aren’t doing anything or should be doing more to save the show.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Well, the ratings are what they are, and I don't think directing umbrage at Robert does any good. He's just the messenger of what happens to be bad news.
I strongly question the ACCURACY of the Nielsen #'s as far as giving an accurate picture of how many people are actually watching Jericho, but the numbers themselves aren't very good.
Jericho is an absolute hit as far as I can tell with online presence, water cooler buzz, etc. but the ratings just don't show it.
I disagree with the opinion that the “Ravenwood” storyline has cost it significant viewers. I'm conservative politically but I can accept it for what it is….a great story.
I think there is still hope for the show, but it is hanging by a thin thread right now. I think another week equal to week 3 would have saved it. Now, I am not very positive.
Let's hope SciFi, TNT, USA, or one of those channels will have the foresight to pick it up. It would be a big hit for any of them.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
It is strange though to see high ratings for the show EVERYWHERE you look EXCEPT Nielsen.
Tivo Season Pass ratings….very high. Direct TV live ratings….quite good. Itunes ratings…great. Online viewings….very good. Nielsens….mediocre at best. Which one of these things doesn't fit???
March 5th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
So again, can you tell me why these shows are digitized if they don't bring in any revenue? Why are the networks allowing streaming, iTune downloads etc. Is it just charity?
March 5th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
So just why have networks allowed DVDs, iTunes, and streaming to happen with shows if it is not monetized in some fashion? They can’t possibly be doing it out of generosity. I admit to that data is data, but it’s never going to be. that. day. Until people get ticked enough to push it. I’ve said it before, I’m done with viewing current television if this goes because everytime I like a show passionately, it is yanked away from me like a spiteful parent pulling away the second half of a candy bar that was originally gleefully given.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Nielsen is not effectively measuring now. Every measurement they take requires human interaction on the part of participants.
Press a button. Fill out a diary. Oops, you’re watching something but you forgot to press that flashing button on your nielsen remote to indicate you are in fact sitting in front of your TV. oh well. That person just cost some show millions of viewers.
Not to mention the amount of boxes out (what, 25,000?) in comparison to total households with television sets. 112 million? That’s a joke, right?
My point is the whole human error factor is to great to be ignored – nielsen measurement techniques are too antiquated for today’s markets. Every household wants to be counted and the outcry for that is getting louder everyday.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
I think this show lost alot of fans who are politically conservative with the over the top comparison of Kansas to Iraq. Battlestar Galacticas rating tanked after their Season 3 when they did a whole season comparing Caprica to Iraq. With all the anti-Iraq war movies bombing at the box office and what happened with BSG, one would think CBS and the makers of Jericho would have learned from that. Guess not. Hopefully they can get on cable somewhere and turn the show around and not alienate a significant chunk of its fan base.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Someone posted today on how hers was a Nielsen family but her ex-husband (now) controlled the remote, switching constantly between sports channels and she had to watch her programs at other houses. How often are Nielsen views actually controlled by one member? But it is moot. I will be told that Nielsen’s are the only measures and that’s just how it is.
BTW, the ratings dip two Tuesdays apart. Weren’t those BOTH election Tuesdays? Is that suspicious at all looking at the bounce? It seems to me *something* is affecting them other than disinterest.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
I think that the ratings have stayed remarkably stable (even if not the CSI/LOST type of ratings they have been stable.) and it has nothing to do with politicizing anything (which IMO this is much more about giving up freedoms little by little or living like a large number of the world than Iraq). It has much more to do with scheduling, huge hiatus’, running the reruns early in the summer and premiering the second season mid-spring and being a serial.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Robert, I’m curious about your take on the New Amsterdam pilot.
I’m assuming if the show does okay it’ll find it’s audience level in the next few episodes, but the drop off of a few million viewers at the half hour has me wondering about other premiers. Did the audience for Sarah Connor drop off or gain during the premier? I know that it went up slightly during the finale, but that was well after it had settled down with a core audience.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
I know of several people who quit watching Jericho because of the Iraq plot line. Blaming the Nielsen system is pointless. Look at NCIS Tuesday at 8pm- a show that is positive on the military – it gets nearly 11 million viewers running up against American Idol. When Jericho was up against Idol at 8PM Wednesdays it was lucky to manage 8 million viewers for a first run episode, let alone a re-run. Jericho averaged 8-9 million for 2nd part of Season 2. This season, it was lucky to get 7 million. 1-2 million viewers from the stable season 1 ratings vanished. The plot line is the likely answer.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Jay, TiVo represents less than 20% of the overall DVR base and the season pass information reflects “recorded”, not watched.
3000 downloads of Gossip Girl will shoot it to the top of itunes.
I didn't see the DirecTV ratings — if you can point me to an official source, I'd appreciate it.
Karen, the shows are digital to begin with now, distributing them online comes at no extra expense really (outside bandwidth, which CBS is stingy with, like NBC the quality of its video pales in comparison to FOX and ABC's online video offerings).
It's not charity. It's just still very new, and still very marginal in terms of where and how most people still watch shows (which is ON tv). One thing sorely lacking for now on the internet is:
1. measurement of how many people watched
2. measurement of HOW LONG they watched
3. demographic information
Advertisers need all 3 to feel comfortable paying high CPM. CBS is only providing #1 of the above. That's not a function of CBS being bad, it's just a function of how immature the online video space is. As it matures it will be a very, very, very big deal.
But in that world, it will be possible for a show like Jericho to find a nice audience without ever having been on TV to begin with.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Most of the reviews I've seen of New Amsterdam were bad. It just seems too disjointed a plotline.
Not that I'm outright rooting for the show to fail, but I am curious if Fox isn't going to start missing Sarah Connor's 18-49yr numbers before long.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
No the answer is this: If one little show, Jericho, can prove the nielsen rating system is flawed, down goes the monopoly. It’s really that simple.
nielsen numbers flip flop all over
online buzz remains consistent and continues to grow.
You tell me what’s going on.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
The problem with serial dramas like Jericho is that there are many people ,like me, who wont watch if they missed first few episodes. I thought the show sounded intriguing when I heard about it last year but never got around to watching it. However, I caught a few minutes of episode #1 season #2 and bought the box set for first season. Now Im up to date. Also the first serial Ive watched in its entirety and looks like its toast.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Frank, I didn’t watch the premiere of New Amsterdam (largely because local TV critic Tim Goodman, whose tastes very often mirror my own crushed it like a bug).
Sarah experienced something similar though she had higher ratings in the Sunday night premiere following a football game (18.29 million) than she did the next night (10.07 m) in her regular time slot after Prison Break. I suspect ~8 million is the core audience for Sarah.
March 5th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Robert,
I know that TIVO's Season Pass info means it was recorded, not necessarily watched. However, I'd still say that there is a high correlation between # of people recording and # of people watching.
Even if TIVO is less than 20% of the DVR base, that's a lot higher sampling than Nielsen, which is, what, 0.1% of the total viewership base, at most?
I have no official source for the Direct TV ratings. On the Jericho message boards, some Direct TV subscribers say that there's a “what's hot” button or something similar that keeps track of overall # of Direct TV viewers viewing a certain show vs. other shows for a certain time zone. According to them, Jericho finished a strong #2 behind L&O on the East Coast, and was #1 in the Central time zone. Nothing official, and I don't know if there is anything official.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Lily, here’s what’s going on:
online buzz does not = $$
Nielsen ratings points DO = $$
Someday online ratings points WILL = $$
Someday is not today. By the way, I watched about 8 episodes of Jericho on my iPhone. I’m pretty sure I have the new media figured out just fine. I had my first TiVo DVR in 1998, how about you?
March 5th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Yes charity. The producers worked very hard to come through with a brilliant season on a slashed budget, less time and with only 7 episodes, so noone would make any money from the viewers who watche it online. It the new trend.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Well, the ratings are what they are, and I don’t think directing umbrage at Robert does any good. He’s just the messenger of what happens to be bad news.
I strongly question the ACCURACY of the Nielsen #’s as far as giving an accurate picture of how many people are actually watching Jericho, but the numbers themselves aren’t very good.
Jericho is an absolute hit as far as I can tell with online presence, water cooler buzz, etc. but the ratings just don’t show it.
I disagree with the opinion that the “Ravenwood” storyline has cost it significant viewers. I’m conservative politically but I can accept it for what it is….a great story.
I think there is still hope for the show, but it is hanging by a thin thread right now. I think another week equal to week 3 would have saved it. Now, I am not very positive.
Let’s hope SciFi, TNT, USA, or one of those channels will have the foresight to pick it up. It would be a big hit for any of them.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
It is strange though to see high ratings for the show EVERYWHERE you look EXCEPT Nielsen.
Tivo Season Pass ratings….very high. Direct TV live ratings….quite good. Itunes ratings…great. Online viewings….very good. Nielsens….mediocre at best. Which one of these things doesn’t fit???
March 5th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
So again, can you tell me why these shows are digitized if they don’t bring in any revenue? Why are the networks allowing streaming, iTune downloads etc. Is it just charity?
March 5th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Well, to be honest, the people ON Jericho really did do a lot of charity work if you ask me. Not many people would come back with paycuts.
March 5th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Karen it would be great if there were some reasonable stats out for shows I know that do well (because they keep bringing them back!) on cable like the Stargate franchise. How much are the writers/actors/directors paid vs. the studio and how does that compare to a broadcast tv show.
I think the paycuts I'm talking about are of along the lines of: would you work for $330,000 a year instead of $400,000. Hardly charity work from my standpoint
March 5th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Jay, TiVo represents less than 20% of the overall DVR base and the season pass information reflects “recorded”, not watched.
3000 downloads of Gossip Girl will shoot it to the top of itunes.
I didn’t see the DirecTV ratings — if you can point me to an official source, I’d appreciate it.
Karen, the shows are digital to begin with now, distributing them online comes at no extra expense really (outside bandwidth, which CBS is stingy with, like NBC the quality of its video pales in comparison to FOX and ABC’s online video offerings).
It’s not charity. It’s just still very new, and still very marginal in terms of where and how most people still watch shows (which is ON tv). One thing sorely lacking for now on the internet is:
1. measurement of how many people watched
2. measurement of HOW LONG they watched
3. demographic information
Advertisers need all 3 to feel comfortable paying high CPM. CBS is only providing #1 of the above. That’s not a function of CBS being bad, it’s just a function of how immature the online video space is. As it matures it will be a very, very, very big deal.
But in that world, it will be possible for a show like Jericho to find a nice audience without ever having been on TV to begin with.
March 5th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
by the way, if anyone is interested you can subscribe to the comments here (for the whole site, not just this post) via:
http://tvbythenumbers.com/comments/feed
March 5th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
We can all complain all we wants but the Nielsen rating is what shows, ALL shows popularity gets measured with.
If you produce a show for the TV market then you have to live and die with the Nielsen ratings, not how many Itunes download your show gets.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Most of the reviews I’ve seen of New Amsterdam were bad. It just seems too disjointed a plotline.
Not that I’m outright rooting for the show to fail, but I am curious if Fox isn’t going to start missing Sarah Connor’s 18-49yr numbers before long.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Robert,
I know that TIVO’s Season Pass info means it was recorded, not necessarily watched. However, I’d still say that there is a high correlation between # of people recording and # of people watching.
Even if TIVO is less than 20% of the DVR base, that’s a lot higher sampling than Nielsen, which is, what, 0.1% of the total viewership base, at most?
I have no official source for the Direct TV ratings. On the Jericho message boards, some Direct TV subscribers say that there’s a “what’s hot” button or something similar that keeps track of overall # of Direct TV viewers viewing a certain show vs. other shows for a certain time zone. According to them, Jericho finished a strong #2 behind L&O on the East Coast, and was #1 in the Central time zone. Nothing official, and I don’t know if there is anything official.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Yes charity. The producers worked very hard to come through with a brilliant season on a slashed budget, less time and with only 7 episodes, so noone would make any money from the viewers who watche it online. It the new trend.
March 5th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Re: election results…
OH and TX represent @ 12% of the US population and therefore, about 1500 Nielsen households. I would imagine that the networks, advertisers and Nielsen simply ascribe the ratings points to the show that was regularly scheduled nationwide with Nielsen points based on whatever local affiliate those familes watched the results on.
It's such a rare occurrence that it's hardly a blip on the screen for advertisers who have long-time relationships with networks or programs. Maybe there's a 2% one day reduction from normal fees or perhaps they all shrug it off and look at the bigger picture. The only people really effected by the skewed ratings are those who are fighting to have THEIR program renewed and are worried about every slight fluctuation in viewership.
Whatever happened in TX or OH last night will have no bearing on whether a show is cancelled or renewed.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Well, to be honest, the people ON Jericho really did do a lot of charity work if you ask me. Not many people would come back with paycuts.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Karen it would be great if there were some reasonable stats out for shows I know that do well (because they keep bringing them back!) on cable like the Stargate franchise. How much are the writers/actors/directors paid vs. the studio and how does that compare to a broadcast tv show.
I think the paycuts I’m talking about are of along the lines of: would you work for $330,000 a year instead of $400,000. Hardly charity work from my standpoint
March 5th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
by the way, if anyone is interested you can subscribe to the comments here (for the whole site, not just this post) via:
http://tvbythenumbers.com/comments/feed
March 5th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
We can all complain all we wants but the Nielsen rating is what shows, ALL shows popularity gets measured with.
If you produce a show for the TV market then you have to live and die with the Nielsen ratings, not how many Itunes download your show gets.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Re: election results…
OH and TX represent @ 12% of the US population and therefore, about 1500 Nielsen households. I would imagine that the networks, advertisers and Nielsen simply ascribe the ratings points to the show that was regularly scheduled nationwide with Nielsen points based on whatever local affiliate those familes watched the results on.
It’s such a rare occurrence that it’s hardly a blip on the screen for advertisers who have long-time relationships with networks or programs. Maybe there’s a 2% one day reduction from normal fees or perhaps they all shrug it off and look at the bigger picture. The only people really effected by the skewed ratings are those who are fighting to have THEIR program renewed and are worried about every slight fluctuation in viewership.
Whatever happened in TX or OH last night will have no bearing on whether a show is cancelled or renewed.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
How about his, According to Jim got renewed, and i do believe its ratings are far lower than Jericho.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
I don't believe the writer of this article. I think Jericho is not “toast” just yet and even if CBS pulls the plug, I do not want to see it on CW, it could do well on Sci Fi or USA network.
March 5th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
So bummed about Jericho…incredible storyline, tense nail biting drama, great acting. I'm a guy and I'm hooked lol….it's like a mini movie. I'll enjoy it, knowing that the future is up in the air.
March 5th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
——–But trust me about this: CBS (nor any network) has figured out how to monetize (make money) with the online stuff yet———
I am so sick of hearing this.
No, I don't think this is the truth, because if the nets weren't making money off online content, THEY WOULDN'T BE PUTTING CONTENT ONLINE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Nets never do anything that does not result in them making money.
What, do you think they're putting content online out of the goodness of their hearts?
March 5th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
It amazes me how people rationalize for the shows that they love.
The fact of the matter is that money is calculated based on Nielsen ratings, not on internet streaming, which is still a new form (hence, “new media”) and therefore does not have the kind of revenue calculations in place that Nielsen does.
New media does bring in money, but it's still pennies compared to Nielsen and live air advertising revenue. Why? Because you can't fast-forward through live air advertisements like can you can on DVR and internet viewing. Live viewing still counts the most, whether fans of Jericho want to admit it or not.
And I wouldn't move Jericho to CW if I had any say. The CW is heading for a fire-sale. No, I'd move it to Sci-fi.
March 5th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
To those like me who are gone when jericho is on, tivo is the only way to go. I get home right after it is over and thats the first thing i watch. And yes, according to direct tv it was number in the central time zone where i live. Whether or not the show survives will have to be determined yet but there are certainly alot of shows that are far worse then it that seem to survive a lot longer because it is somebody's “pet project”. The ratings it had last week would certainly suggest that the show is not a complete flop.
March 5th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
And by the way advertiser may look at nielsen ratings but not near as much as before. There are many many avenues fro advertiser to use now a days and i think they realize that nielsen ratings are not completely accurate considering they are not taking from every viewer.
March 5th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
How about his, According to Jim got renewed, and i do believe its ratings are far lower than Jericho.
March 5th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
I don’t believe the writer of this article. I think Jericho is not “toast” just yet and even if CBS pulls the plug, I do not want to see it on CW, it could do well on Sci Fi or USA network.
March 5th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
So bummed about Jericho…incredible storyline, tense nail biting drama, great acting. I’m a guy and I’m hooked lol….it’s like a mini movie. I’ll enjoy it, knowing that the future is up in the air.
March 5th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
I really have to agree with wes on his tivo comment. I am home a 10pm every tueday night but I go to bed at that time and never watch any of the 10pm programs. I am a record now and watch later type of a person. And I'm talking vhs here (old School). I think we would be all suprise to see have all show really did if every type of view ship were counted. I truly hope Jericho does not get the boot. It's the most intreging show on tv.
March 5th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
All I want to say is that I LOVE JERICHO and I hope that CBS will give all of us who love the show another season.
My heart will be broken if it is cancelled.
March 5th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
——–But trust me about this: CBS (nor any network) has figured out how to monetize (make money) with the online stuff yet———
I am so sick of hearing this.
No, I don’t think this is the truth, because if the nets weren’t making money off online content, THEY WOULDN’T BE PUTTING CONTENT ONLINE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Nets never do anything that does not result in them making money.
What, do you think they’re putting content online out of the goodness of their hearts?
March 5th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
It amazes me how people rationalize for the shows that they love.
The fact of the matter is that money is calculated based on Nielsen ratings, not on internet streaming, which is still a new form (hence, “new media”) and therefore does not have the kind of revenue calculations in place that Nielsen does.
New media does bring in money, but it’s still pennies compared to Nielsen and live air advertising revenue. Why? Because you can’t fast-forward through live air advertisements like can you can on DVR and internet viewing. Live viewing still counts the most, whether fans of Jericho want to admit it or not.
And I wouldn’t move Jericho to CW if I had any say. The CW is heading for a fire-sale. No, I’d move it to Sci-fi.
March 5th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
To those like me who are gone when jericho is on, tivo is the only way to go. I get home right after it is over and thats the first thing i watch. And yes, according to direct tv it was number in the central time zone where i live. Whether or not the show survives will have to be determined yet but there are certainly alot of shows that are far worse then it that seem to survive a lot longer because it is somebody’s “pet project”. The ratings it had last week would certainly suggest that the show is not a complete flop.
March 5th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
We couldn't watch Jericho at 10, it wasn't on CBS. It wasn't the elections but a local UNC vs Florida State college basketball game that ran over. I am sure many tuned out but I waited for 10 minutes to see if it would begin. (Maybe that is why ratings went up in
the second half hour?) When it did come on, it was not in HD and the picture quality was worse than usual analog. (WBTV Charlotte,NC) I was hoping they would rebroadcast the episode since my Tivo was not correctly timed so that I could watch it over myself:(
March 5th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
My TV set will be broken if it is cancelled. CBS didn’t throw Jericho a bone after the nuts campain. They threw it a cinder block, and Jericho still is alive.
Here is a link to an exclusive clip from next Tuesday’s episode with logline and password info:
http://www.cbs.com/nuts
Login: rangers Password: jerichonuts
———-
Jericho Season 2 – Tues 10/9C on CBS http://www.cbs.com/primetime/jericho/
Email: audsvcs@cbs.com and tell CBS you watched Jericho.
March 5th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
And by the way advertiser may look at nielsen ratings but not near as much as before. There are many many avenues fro advertiser to use now a days and i think they realize that nielsen ratings are not completely accurate considering they are not taking from every viewer.
March 5th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Oh, and Jericho is considered a wonderful warm garlic Texas Toast with strawberrys on the side, not just toast. You're giving people the wrong idea.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
I really have to agree with wes on his tivo comment. I am home a 10pm every tueday night but I go to bed at that time and never watch any of the 10pm programs. I am a record now and watch later type of a person. And I’m talking vhs here (old School). I think we would be all suprise to see have all show really did if every type of view ship were counted. I truly hope Jericho does not get the boot. It’s the most intreging show on tv.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
All I want to say is that I LOVE JERICHO and I hope that CBS will give all of us who love the show another season.
My heart will be broken if it is cancelled.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Another Jericho viewer here, but I agree with the general bafflement about the ratings here. NCIS is obviously the best-rated show on CBS on Tuesday night. Why is it in the 8-pm slot? It should be used as a tentpole, not a lead-in. Big Brother is obviously losing the NCIS lead-in. If anything, I'd think Jericho would perform better after NCIS …
Then again, I'm recalling that, thanks to the Writer's Strike, CBS was probably originally planning to have NCIS, The Unit, and Jericho as the Tuesday night lineup for mid-season. That could have worked.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
We couldn’t watch Jericho at 10, it wasn’t on CBS. It wasn’t the elections but a local UNC vs Florida State college basketball game that ran over. I am sure many tuned out but I waited for 10 minutes to see if it would begin. (Maybe that is why ratings went up in
the second half hour?) When it did come on, it was not in HD and the picture quality was worse than usual analog. (WBTV Charlotte,NC) I was hoping they would rebroadcast the episode since my Tivo was not correctly timed so that I could watch it over myself:(
March 5th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
And to Angie: You can't fast forward through commercials on online viewing. At least not on most of the networks' sites. The big difference between live TV and online is that there's a :15 second commercial online versus three minutes over air.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
My TV set will be broken if it is cancelled. CBS didn’t throw Jericho a bone after the nuts campain. They threw it a cinder block, and Jericho still is alive.
Here is a link to an exclusive clip from next Tuesday’s episode with logline and password info:
http://www.cbs.com/nuts
Login: rangers Password: jerichonuts
———-
Jericho Season 2 – Tues 10/9C on CBS http://www.cbs.com/primetime/jericho/
Email: audsvcs@cbs.com and tell CBS you watched Jericho.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
Oh, and Jericho is considered a wonderful warm garlic Texas Toast with strawberrys on the side, not just toast. You’re giving people the wrong idea.
March 5th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Another Jericho viewer here, but I agree with the general bafflement about the ratings here. NCIS is obviously the best-rated show on CBS on Tuesday night. Why is it in the 8-pm slot? It should be used as a tentpole, not a lead-in. Big Brother is obviously losing the NCIS lead-in. If anything, I’d think Jericho would perform better after NCIS …
Then again, I’m recalling that, thanks to the Writer’s Strike, CBS was probably originally planning to have NCIS, The Unit, and Jericho as the Tuesday night lineup for mid-season. That could have worked.
March 5th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
And to Angie: You can’t fast forward through commercials on online viewing. At least not on most of the networks’ sites. The big difference between live TV and online is that there’s a :15 second commercial online versus three minutes over air.
March 6th, 2008 at 1:51 am
I ADORE JERICHO and it's not toast until CBS says it's toast….which we beg them NOT to do.
P.S. OVERSIGHT was AMAZING!!
I don't give a rat's tail what the ratings say.
I SAW this episode and it ROCKED!!
The people not watching JERICHO are the losers, not the ones who watch.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:51 pm
I ADORE JERICHO and it’s not toast until CBS says it’s toast….which we beg them NOT to do.
P.S. OVERSIGHT was AMAZING!!
I don’t give a rat’s tail what the ratings say.
I SAW this episode and it ROCKED!!
The people not watching JERICHO are the losers, not the ones who watch.
March 6th, 2008 at 5:54 am
How can they sell these shows to other stations and overseas..? I mean we've seen the first season here in the Netherlands of “Invasion”, which I thought was a great show.
Then after the first season it just stops. Why would I make an effort in a new serie if I don't get a garantee for at least a couple of seasons.
And how about reruns in a couple of years. You can't rerun a serie without a proper ending. At least it's not something I would be watching.
And please stop these bullshit realtime soaps…
March 6th, 2008 at 3:54 am
How can they sell these shows to other stations and overseas..? I mean we’ve seen the first season here in the Netherlands of “Invasion”, which I thought was a great show.
Then after the first season it just stops. Why would I make an effort in a new serie if I don’t get a garantee for at least a couple of seasons.
And how about reruns in a couple of years. You can’t rerun a serie without a proper ending. At least it’s not something I would be watching.
And please stop these bullshit realtime soaps…
March 6th, 2008 at 8:28 am
First of all I love Jericho, and I hope it's on somewhere for a long time. I have also been a fan of Big Brother, so I watch that as well. On the BB before episode 3 their Power of Veto competition(they always have it on the Tuesday show)had a Jericho theme to it, involved Nuts and everything, and talked about the Hudson River Virus. That may be the reason for the spike in rating for the 3rd episode.
March 6th, 2008 at 8:33 am
Here's my only bit of hope for Jericho, DVR. It gets GREAT DVR sales, but how much better does it have to be? i also understand one reason why Big Brother should stick around, but if Jericho is just under 6 million, even with the terrible advertisement, and in a crap 10:00 time slot, compared to Big Brothers 7 million, wouldnt you think that if you swapped the two, all of a sudden Jericho's numbers would benefit hugely in the 9:00 slot. I know its up against American Idol, but it's worth a shot.
My big problem was, the producers never got a Season 1 Recap. That was necessary. You got few opponents out there due to the Writers Strike, and it's a drama where all the episodes connect rather than in CSI or L&A. Lost does it, and it works. You throw in a 1 hour recap 1 week before the premiere, and the sunday before the premiere. Bam! Now any new viewers know what is going on, where the people are right now, whose missing, whose dead etc.
March 6th, 2008 at 8:36 am
Re to Jeff: That's only because not many people are willing to pay for online advertisement right now. It brings in the money, but Networks do those so short because advertisers only want them short, and because you dont have networks running those 4 45 second commercials for other shows on its network.
March 6th, 2008 at 6:28 am
First of all I love Jericho, and I hope it’s on somewhere for a long time. I have also been a fan of Big Brother, so I watch that as well. On the BB before episode 3 their Power of Veto competition(they always have it on the Tuesday show)had a Jericho theme to it, involved Nuts and everything, and talked about the Hudson River Virus. That may be the reason for the spike in rating for the 3rd episode.
March 6th, 2008 at 6:33 am
Here’s my only bit of hope for Jericho, DVR. It gets GREAT DVR sales, but how much better does it have to be? i also understand one reason why Big Brother should stick around, but if Jericho is just under 6 million, even with the terrible advertisement, and in a crap 10:00 time slot, compared to Big Brothers 7 million, wouldnt you think that if you swapped the two, all of a sudden Jericho’s numbers would benefit hugely in the 9:00 slot. I know its up against American Idol, but it’s worth a shot.
My big problem was, the producers never got a Season 1 Recap. That was necessary. You got few opponents out there due to the Writers Strike, and it’s a drama where all the episodes connect rather than in CSI or L&A. Lost does it, and it works. You throw in a 1 hour recap 1 week before the premiere, and the sunday before the premiere. Bam! Now any new viewers know what is going on, where the people are right now, whose missing, whose dead etc.
March 6th, 2008 at 6:36 am
Re to Jeff: That’s only because not many people are willing to pay for online advertisement right now. It brings in the money, but Networks do those so short because advertisers only want them short, and because you dont have networks running those 4 45 second commercials for other shows on its network.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:44 am
Please save Jericho! My husband and I LOVE the show. We record it on our DVR since we can't stay up till 10 to watch it. Please let me know what I can do to help keep this absolutely FANTASTIC show on the air.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:15 am
Jericho vs Jim
Jericho probably costs 3 to 5 times as much money to produce as does According to Jim… that is a major consideration.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:20 am
to Jon V's point, comedies also do much better in syndication than serial shows that require you got in at the beginning and watch every episode.
That said, I'm still amazed ABC is bringing it back! I understand the profit side of the syndication, but I think a lot about “opportunity cost” of airing something that only attracts ~5m viewers instead of shooting for something that could find 10m-15m. From that context, Jim seems like a waste of space.
March 6th, 2008 at 7:44 am
Please save Jericho! My husband and I LOVE the show. We record it on our DVR since we can’t stay up till 10 to watch it. Please let me know what I can do to help keep this absolutely FANTASTIC show on the air.
March 6th, 2008 at 8:15 am
Jericho vs Jim
Jericho probably costs 3 to 5 times as much money to produce as does According to Jim… that is a major consideration.
March 6th, 2008 at 8:20 am
to Jon V’s point, comedies also do much better in syndication than serial shows that require you got in at the beginning and watch every episode.
That said, I’m still amazed ABC is bringing it back! I understand the profit side of the syndication, but I think a lot about “opportunity cost” of airing something that only attracts ~5m viewers instead of shooting for something that could find 10m-15m. From that context, Jim seems like a waste of space.
March 6th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/index.html
Jericho is number 13 on this list
March 6th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Barbara, no offense to you personally, but that could possibly be the most meaningless list I have ever seen.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:38 am
http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/index.html
Jericho is number 13 on this list
March 6th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Barbara, no offense to you personally, but that could possibly be the most meaningless list I have ever seen.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Oversight was great! I just watched it online.
Yes,online viewing is a big thing now. I would watch Jericho if they had the same amount of commercials as regular broadcasts. It was hard to see another great character die. That storyline comparison to Iraq is rubbish. How do you think this country would look after such devastation? It is still a small town and the people trying to fend for themselves.
March 6th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
Oversight was great! I just watched it online.
Yes,online viewing is a big thing now. I would watch Jericho if they had the same amount of commercials as regular broadcasts. It was hard to see another great character die. That storyline comparison to Iraq is rubbish. How do you think this country would look after such devastation? It is still a small town and the people trying to fend for themselves.
March 7th, 2008 at 1:16 am
Coming to this a bit late, but I feel compelled to point out that Jericho did indeed air in Dallas/Fort Worth at it's normal time of 9 PM CST on Tuesday. The intro was marred by election results at the bottom of the screen, but the only other impact was another election update that did not effect the show. That's not to say people were watching election results elsewhere, but Jericho aired just fine.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
Coming to this a bit late, but I feel compelled to point out that Jericho did indeed air in Dallas/Fort Worth at it’s normal time of 9 PM CST on Tuesday. The intro was marred by election results at the bottom of the screen, but the only other impact was another election update that did not effect the show. That’s not to say people were watching election results elsewhere, but Jericho aired just fine.
March 7th, 2008 at 7:54 am
Bill/Robert -
Remember that exchange a few weeks ago about being a FOX programmer. Can't stress enough what a job they are doing using AmerIdol to capture viewers and numbers and then switch these people to new nights and times.
Case in point: New Amsterdam. The AI bleed over not only made me watch the last couple of AI minutes, but I see where they got a first 15min of 14.9mil. It held 12.4 and now they are switching it (and its followers, who seem to be blogging and posting up a storm on the tv.com web pages) to Monday at 9pm following the debut of Canterbury, which appears to be in soft against a HIMYM rerun and the weakening 'My Dad..”.
Brilliant
March 7th, 2008 at 8:46 am
Actually what's brilliant is it looks like Fox has it's own favorite shows, and they can make a good effort at turning them into hits if they really want to.
You never saw Fox help out Sarah Connor with American Idol. And what did they put after the Super Bowl? House. Like they really needed the boost. Even Bones would have been a better choice, that show is on a good role right now and could have used the boost.
March 7th, 2008 at 5:54 am
Bill/Robert -
Remember that exchange a few weeks ago about being a FOX programmer. Can’t stress enough what a job they are doing using AmerIdol to capture viewers and numbers and then switch these people to new nights and times.
Case in point: New Amsterdam. The AI bleed over not only made me watch the last couple of AI minutes, but I see where they got a first 15min of 14.9mil. It held 12.4 and now they are switching it (and its followers, who seem to be blogging and posting up a storm on the tv.com web pages) to Monday at 9pm following the debut of Canterbury, which appears to be in soft against a HIMYM rerun and the weakening ‘My Dad..”.
Brilliant
March 7th, 2008 at 6:46 am
Actually what’s brilliant is it looks like Fox has it’s own favorite shows, and they can make a good effort at turning them into hits if they really want to.
You never saw Fox help out Sarah Connor with American Idol. And what did they put after the Super Bowl? House. Like they really needed the boost. Even Bones would have been a better choice, that show is on a good role right now and could have used the boost.
March 7th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Re: frankj/NewAm
I happened to check out some board posts and blogs on New Amsterdam (and then looked at the profiles of the posters). This show (and others of this genre) seem to hit a chord with the 18-34 group who are very net-savvy and devoted. I was doing a little homework for the BigShot game and was struck by the passion and networking these viewers have for shows with supernatural overtones.
As for 'Sarah' – the show just didn't have the staying power that one might have guessed. I have to blame the producers/directors/writers for not coming through for their fans.
I am not a real fan of either, but checked them out a little before passing. NewAm does have a certain chemistry, but these kinds of storylines don't hold my attention.
March 7th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Jon, you should disclose whether you were a fan of the Terminator movies. I loved T1 and T2, but T3 not so much (it was OK). I think Terminator: TSCC did an outstanding job considering it falls between T2 and T3 and I know…how it all ends.
Are you a Science Fiction fan?
March 7th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Re: frankj/NewAm
I happened to check out some board posts and blogs on New Amsterdam (and then looked at the profiles of the posters). This show (and others of this genre) seem to hit a chord with the 18-34 group who are very net-savvy and devoted. I was doing a little homework for the BigShot game and was struck by the passion and networking these viewers have for shows with supernatural overtones.
As for ‘Sarah’ – the show just didn’t have the staying power that one might have guessed. I have to blame the producers/directors/writers for not coming through for their fans.
I am not a real fan of either, but checked them out a little before passing. NewAm does have a certain chemistry, but these kinds of storylines don’t hold my attention.
March 7th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Jon, you should disclose whether you were a fan of the Terminator movies. I loved T1 and T2, but T3 not so much (it was OK). I think Terminator: TSCC did an outstanding job considering it falls between T2 and T3 and I know…how it all ends.
Are you a Science Fiction fan?
March 7th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Robert, I thought you would be interested in this. Still no hard data in numbers, but you have some idea of $$ per streaming (which no not in the millions – I think they reported 500,000? Check out some of the linked articles) but not inconsiderable.
http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/3/cbs__online_...
March 7th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
and yet, he seems to agree with me that this isn't a big deal…yet.
What did I miss? And, this definitely seems to validate the notion that advertisers are willing to pay more for younger viewers. Something I didn't actually need any more validation on, but I know some of you don't buy that.
March 7th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
I did like all three of the movies, which is unusual for me. I stopped going to theatres a long time ago and just wait until they hit the pay channels (saw T1 at a theatre). I saw T2 thrice and T3 twice (say that three times – also unusual). It was a good franchise.
I don't know what happened to TSCC, but it seemed like it died for no reason I could figure other than they didn't follow through after a big start. That's usually the fault of the back and/or front talent. Just a guess though.
March 7th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
Jon — you're too ratings/TVBS minded for your own good sometimes! It seems like outside of blockbuster movies (T2, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, etc) there is not a HUGE market for serial television in the Science Fiction or Fantasy genre (LOST being the one exception I can think of, some might argue Heroes).
TSCC is on par with Moonlight, which dwarfs anything on the CW or SciFi channel.
March 7th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Sorry. Just thought it was interesting to see some numbers on it. And, well, streaming is probably a more direct way to a younger viewer. I'm just saying, maybe Networks are thinking more forward than just Nielsen's. *shrug* Didn't mean to bother you with unhelpful information. I felt it was germane to some of the issue.
March 7th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Robert… You got me thinking about why TSCC tanked and I realized that when they put it on Mons, it went up against the CBS sitcoms that split the demo. Many of those in that demo are not DVRers and they had to make a choice. It prob hurt both networks, but this is one that FOX lost. Monday has been FOX's achilles heel in a year where they are stomping everyone else.
Karen… I read that story, and if the per/person cost is better for the networks on the net side, one can certainly understand why the number crunchers are pushing to explore and expand.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
I pretty much agree with Robert down the line on the Terminator movies. In fact, T1 would be in my personal top 10.
I liked TSCC. It seemed a bit slow at times, but that's really a comparison with the movies, not typical TV pacing.
Because of its demo performance I'd give it a better than 50/50 chance of success.
March 7th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Robert, I thought you would be interested in this. Still no hard data in numbers, but you have some idea of $$ per streaming (which no not in the millions – I think they reported 500,000? Check out some of the linked articles) but not inconsiderable.
http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/3/cbs__online_ad_rates_higher_that_primetime_tv
March 7th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
and yet, he seems to agree with me that this isn’t a big deal…yet.
What did I miss? And, this definitely seems to validate the notion that advertisers are willing to pay more for younger viewers. Something I didn’t actually need any more validation on, but I know some of you don’t buy that.
March 7th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
I did like all three of the movies, which is unusual for me. I stopped going to theatres a long time ago and just wait until they hit the pay channels (saw T1 at a theatre). I saw T2 thrice and T3 twice (say that three times – also unusual). It was a good franchise.
I don’t know what happened to TSCC, but it seemed like it died for no reason I could figure other than they didn’t follow through after a big start. That’s usually the fault of the back and/or front talent. Just a guess though.
March 7th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
Jon — you’re too ratings/TVBS minded for your own good sometimes! It seems like outside of blockbuster movies (T2, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, etc) there is not a HUGE market for serial television in the Science Fiction or Fantasy genre (LOST being the one exception I can think of, some might argue Heroes).
TSCC is on par with Moonlight, which dwarfs anything on the CW or SciFi channel.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Jon,
Well I confess I'm in that demographic, and New Amsterdam hits no chord with me. In fact as a net-savvy individual who loves shows with supernatural overtones, I find New Amsterdam to be a rehash of way too many stories about immortals that were, in my opinion, much more interesting. The producers claim they didn't even recognize the similarities, which to me sounds ridiculous. I mean at least just say you're attempting to reclaim the immortal storyline for your own or something.
Josh Friedman (T:SCC creator) had the sense to do just that with T:SCC when he was questioned about the many “When robots attack – yet for some reason feel compelled to explore their humanity” stories such as BSG, Star Trek TNG, not to mention the classic Terminator movies that are out there. In fact he admitted he is trying very hard to put his own stamp on things. That's honest and interesting. And while you may blame the producers/directors/writers, I haven't seen too many fans blaming them for anything except creating some pretty darn good episodes.
New Amsterdam's numbers are dropping pretty fast, and without Idol next week I'm curious to see who rushes to tune in. If people do, then good for them. I'd rather watch something I find interesting.
In any case, I admit I was very worried about T:SCC but I decided to give it a shot because I'm a fan of Summer Glau. To my surprise I saw that the show was trying to draw in existing fans of the story, but yet give them something new at the same time, to build a show based on characters, large story arcs, more involved themes, instead of just action and camp. And while the show certainly suffered from the writer's strike, the episodes got better and better with regard to that attempt right through the finale. In fact their decision to go for “art” instead of a standard action sequence during one of the most anticipated show-downs of the season was just brilliant, and is still being talked about by fans and critics alike.
I really hope Fox picks it up for another season. The show ended up finding it's audience without any help from Idol or any great lead-in. And I think if Fox gives it a chance and positions it well in their line-up that show could stick around for a while.
March 7th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Sorry. Just thought it was interesting to see some numbers on it. And, well, streaming is probably a more direct way to a younger viewer. I’m just saying, maybe Networks are thinking more forward than just Nielsen’s. *shrug* Didn’t mean to bother you with unhelpful information. I felt it was germane to some of the issue.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
TSCC was a very big show for me on TVBS. I made close to 90 mil and picked up @250 points and only owned it twice for a week each time (including the awesome premiere week). Don't wish it any harm but as Robt said, it is a closed plotline covering the time between T2 -T3.
Also the genre has a smallish (but faithful) viewership and the opening week was a monster causing me to have much higher expectations on the numbers side. I have never seen even one minute of it, so can't comment on its quality.
March 7th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Robert… You got me thinking about why TSCC tanked and I realized that when they put it on Mons, it went up against the CBS sitcoms that split the demo. Many of those in that demo are not DVRers and they had to make a choice. It prob hurt both networks, but this is one that FOX lost. Monday has been FOX’s achilles heel in a year where they are stomping everyone else.
Karen… I read that story, and if the per/person cost is better for the networks on the net side, one can certainly understand why the number crunchers are pushing to explore and expand.
March 7th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
I pretty much agree with Robert down the line on the Terminator movies. In fact, T1 would be in my personal top 10.
I liked TSCC. It seemed a bit slow at times, but that’s really a comparison with the movies, not typical TV pacing.
Because of its demo performance I’d give it a better than 50/50 chance of success.
March 7th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Jon,
Well I confess I’m in that demographic, and New Amsterdam hits no chord with me. In fact as a net-savvy individual who loves shows with supernatural overtones, I find New Amsterdam to be a rehash of way too many stories about immortals that were, in my opinion, much more interesting. The producers claim they didn’t even recognize the similarities, which to me sounds ridiculous. I mean at least just say you’re attempting to reclaim the immortal storyline for your own or something.
Josh Friedman (T:SCC creator) had the sense to do just that with T:SCC when he was questioned about the many “When robots attack – yet for some reason feel compelled to explore their humanity” stories such as BSG, Star Trek TNG, not to mention the classic Terminator movies that are out there. In fact he admitted he is trying very hard to put his own stamp on things. That’s honest and interesting. And while you may blame the producers/directors/writers, I haven’t seen too many fans blaming them for anything except creating some pretty darn good episodes.
New Amsterdam’s numbers are dropping pretty fast, and without Idol next week I’m curious to see who rushes to tune in. If people do, then good for them. I’d rather watch something I find interesting.
In any case, I admit I was very worried about T:SCC but I decided to give it a shot because I’m a fan of Summer Glau. To my surprise I saw that the show was trying to draw in existing fans of the story, but yet give them something new at the same time, to build a show based on characters, large story arcs, more involved themes, instead of just action and camp. And while the show certainly suffered from the writer’s strike, the episodes got better and better with regard to that attempt right through the finale. In fact their decision to go for “art” instead of a standard action sequence during one of the most anticipated show-downs of the season was just brilliant, and is still being talked about by fans and critics alike.
I really hope Fox picks it up for another season. The show ended up finding it’s audience without any help from Idol or any great lead-in. And I think if Fox gives it a chance and positions it well in their line-up that show could stick around for a while.
March 7th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
TSCC was a very big show for me on TVBS. I made close to 90 mil and picked up @250 points and only owned it twice for a week each time (including the awesome premiere week). Don’t wish it any harm but as Robt said, it is a closed plotline covering the time between T2 -T3.
Also the genre has a smallish (but faithful) viewership and the opening week was a monster causing me to have much higher expectations on the numbers side. I have never seen even one minute of it, so can’t comment on its quality.
March 7th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Jon,
Glad to hear it did well for you. I admit the variance between the opening and the numbers it eventually settled to was pretty huge, but honestly everyone I've convinced to watch the show starts to like it. With Fox it's a tough sell though. I know a lot of people who are waiting it out. They'd rather buy the DVD's if it does well than get invested in another show that Fox just ends up canceling. I fear Fox has a lot of brand damage when it comes to dumping shows, and, justified or not, I doubt they realize how deep it runs with people.
Anyway I think the producers are on record saying that the series was crafted to take place after T2, and that as far as they're concerned, T3 and any movies that might continue afterwards, don't exist. This helps them jump the track, so to speak, so they can make it an open plotline – as much as a show about time-travel allows them to be.
March 7th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
If I could roll this site over into a Summer Glau fanclub site without Bill objecting — I'd be all over it!
As I've already said, as with any good Terminator,she'll be back.
March 7th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
re: FOX canceling…
I mentioned I had been checking out NewAm posts and blogs, and if there was one comment that stood out more than any other, it was “…hope FOX doesn't cancel it after half a season.”
So yah, these kids are wary of FOX getting them invested and then pulling the rug.
March 7th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Jon,
Glad to hear it did well for you. I admit the variance between the opening and the numbers it eventually settled to was pretty huge, but honestly everyone I’ve convinced to watch the show starts to like it. With Fox it’s a tough sell though. I know a lot of people who are waiting it out. They’d rather buy the DVD’s if it does well than get invested in another show that Fox just ends up canceling. I fear Fox has a lot of brand damage when it comes to dumping shows, and, justified or not, I doubt they realize how deep it runs with people.
Anyway I think the producers are on record saying that the series was crafted to take place after T2, and that as far as they’re concerned, T3 and any movies that might continue afterwards, don’t exist. This helps them jump the track, so to speak, so they can make it an open plotline – as much as a show about time-travel allows them to be.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
If I could roll this site over into a Summer Glau fanclub site without Bill objecting — I’d be all over it!
As I’ve already said, as with any good Terminator,she’ll be back.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
re: FOX canceling…
I mentioned I had been checking out NewAm posts and blogs, and if there was one comment that stood out more than any other, it was “…hope FOX doesn’t cancel it after half a season.”
So yah, these kids are wary of FOX getting them invested and then pulling the rug.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
Robert, there has to be a way you could do both!
And by the way, the rumors about the show are starting to turn into something a bit more substantial.
March 7th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Robert, there has to be a way you could do both!
And by the way, the rumors about the show are starting to turn into something a bit more substantial.
March 8th, 2008 at 9:03 am
Went to my TVBS page thia morn and happened to look back on TSCC history for points… sheesh.
I made over 620 points with Sarah including 476 (still my one show, one week record) in her debut with a whopping 370 growth points that week (and owned it for 3 separate weeks as well).
I like Sarah a lot better now… might have to watch.
March 8th, 2008 at 9:11 am
Oh… and couldn't find the TVBS strategy thread so I will mention here. Loading up on Monday shows is a great way to 'manipulate' the system. You get the overnights on Tues and then buy or sell accordingly ahead of the Wed changes. It's prob worth an extra 5-20% p/w on top of whatever else you do.
If you started from 'day one' using that strategy (and of course picking big growth shows for the week) you would be right in the mix for the lead.
March 8th, 2008 at 7:03 am
Went to my TVBS page thia morn and happened to look back on TSCC history for points… sheesh.
I made over 620 points with Sarah including 476 (still my one show, one week record) in her debut with a whopping 370 growth points that week (and owned it for 3 separate weeks as well).
I like Sarah a lot better now… might have to watch.
March 8th, 2008 at 7:11 am
Oh… and couldn’t find the TVBS strategy thread so I will mention here. Loading up on Monday shows is a great way to ‘manipulate’ the system. You get the overnights on Tues and then buy or sell accordingly ahead of the Wed changes. It’s prob worth an extra 5-20% p/w on top of whatever else you do.
If you started from ‘day one’ using that strategy (and of course picking big growth shows for the week) you would be right in the mix for the lead.
March 8th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
There are three types of lies; Lies, Damed Lies and NEILSON.
March 8th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
There are three types of lies; Lies, Damed Lies and NEILSON.
March 9th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Hey, is it already decided Jericho is canceled? Cause it still has 2 episodes to get a hell load (which ya, long shot) a viewers and stay on before CBS decideds which ending to air… And is it possible that CW would take it in, has anyone suggested it…
March 9th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
Hey, is it already decided Jericho is canceled? Cause it still has 2 episodes to get a hell load (which ya, long shot) a viewers and stay on before CBS decideds which ending to air… And is it possible that CW would take it in, has anyone suggested it…
March 9th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Link & Zelda, No official announcement as yet, so everybody, and that includes Robert and I, are just guessing at this point.
March 9th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
Link & Zelda, No official announcement as yet, so everybody, and that includes Robert and I, are just guessing at this point.
March 10th, 2008 at 6:18 am
Well it looks like Jericho will be toast. I just saw a quick commerical during 48 Hours Mystery this Saturday and it said “Jericho The Final Three” ….. meaning Final as in Final. Three episodes left,, what a shame.
March 10th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Well it looks like Jericho will be toast. I just saw a quick commerical during 48 Hours Mystery this Saturday and it said “Jericho The Final Three” ….. meaning Final as in Final. Three episodes left,, what a shame.
March 11th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
I agree about Stargate: SG1. Absolutely love(d) that show too! I see SciFi has picked up the first 2 seasons of Jericho. Now if that took off (as it could), that would be perfect!
Where ever Jericho might end up, I’ll watch it, and so will our whole family.
Great thought provoking, action packed shows like Jericho just don’t come around often enough. I could gag at shows like American Idol, Survivor, etc. And the drooling idiots who watch them.
Long Live Jericho!!
March 11th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
I agree about Stargate: SG1. Absolutely love(d) that show too! I see SciFi has picked up the first 2 seasons of Jericho. Now if that took off (as it could), that would be perfect!
Where ever Jericho might end up, I'll watch it, and so will our whole family.
Great thought provoking, action packed shows like Jericho just don't come around often enough. I could gag at shows like American Idol, Survivor, etc. And the drooling idiots who watch them.
Long Live Jericho!!
March 13th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Blame the producers of Jericho? They certainlly did not give it a bad time slot, nor cancel their series, nor did they give it a huge hiatus in the middle of the first season. What logic would sending nutts to the producers make?
March 13th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Blame the producers of Jericho? They certainlly did not give it a bad time slot, nor cancel their series, nor did they give it a huge hiatus in the middle of the first season. What logic would sending nutts to the producers make?
March 14th, 2008 at 3:51 am
I’d be content if they moved to the CW. They’d probably rule the airwaves there (since ANTM gets maybe five million viewers a week and is their highest rated show).
Not sure the producers are willing to go that way. I wish they would.
March 14th, 2008 at 6:51 am
I'd be content if they moved to the CW. They'd probably rule the airwaves there (since ANTM gets maybe five million viewers a week and is their highest rated show).
Not sure the producers are willing to go that way. I wish they would.