The Renew or Cancel Index is updated on a weekly basis, if you’re reading this after November 11, 2008 click here to see the latest list.
11/13 Update: Some of the 18-49 Network averages originally used in the calculations were incorrect, they have been fixed.
It’s getting to be that time of the season when TV networks announce their mid-season January schedules. Don’t look for Lipstick Jungle, Pushing Daisies, Eli Stone or Dirty Sexy Money to be on them. Add to those 4 shows *maybe* Life (completely dependent on its future Wednesday results) and You have the 4 or 5 additional shows waiting to get cancelled by mid-season. I think every other show survives past January.
11/6 Update: Life’s first broadcast on Wednesday night at 9pm was inconclusive.
11/7 Update: NBC didn’t think it was inconclusive and has ordered a full season of Life. I have changed its color code to “Cancel in May”.
Recapping last weeks show news: ‘Til Death was pulled from the Fox lineup. King of the Hill wasn’t renewed by Fox, but there are shows enough to last until sometime in the 2009-10 season. Folks wondered how it could be in the “renewal” zone. It’s likely that some non-economic event/terms trumped the advertising revenue implied by its ratings.
Lipstick Jungle moved to Friday, predictably crashed, and the smoking ruin will be swept away soon enough. It still remains to be seen how Life’s move to Wednesday goes. It’s definitely not out of the woods yet. Unfortunately, Nielsen doesn’t seem to be breaking down the season to date numbers for the different day/timeslots. I’ll do my best to calculate the Wednesday average for Life separately starting next week.
Kath & Kim was given an order filling its first season of shows. Some fans were surprised that could happen, but shouldn’t be. It’s an *average* scripted show for NBC, and nobody cancels their average shows.
The Indexes for Fox shows continue to be distorted downward by the World Series which has temporarily boosted Fox’s 18-49 average, but that will sort itself out over the coming weeks. No need to panic *yet* for Fox shows with scary low numbers.
I seem to write this every week in the comments, so let me include it up top from now on. Except for the shows in the most danger (at the top of the list), plenty can change before the end of the season. The list is presented in a (and has to be, since I cannot predict future ratings) “what would happen if the season ended today” mode. The renewal line last season was 0.92. Could it be 0.86 this season? Possibly. It might also be 0.95. Might it be 0.70? No chance.
While the Renew / Cancel index is most geared toward predicting potential renewal for *next* season, my color coding of the shows are guesses on what might happen this season: Cancellation by January, Cancellation by May, or Renewal Likely for 2009-10.
| PROGRAM | Net | STD 18-49 (LIVE+SD) (000) | Network Avg. STD 18-49 | Renew/ Cancel index | Status |
| EASY MONEY (1) | CW | 342 | 1,380 | 0.25 | cancelled |
| VALENTINE (1) | CW | 405 | 1,380 | 0.29 | cancelled |
| CRUSOE (2) | NBC | 1,758 | 3,620 | 0.49 | 13 ep. mini series |
| DO NOT DISTURB | FOX | 2,097 | 3,940 | 0.53 | cancelled |
| LIFE (2) | NBC | 2,043 | 3,620 | 0.56 | moved to Wed |
| ‘TIL DEATH | FOX | 2,364 | 3,940 | 0.60 | off schedule |
| THE EX LIST (2) | CBS | 2,443 | 4,050 | 0.60 | cancelled |
| EVERYBODY HATES CHRIS (2) | CW | 881 | 1,380 | 0.64 | |
| LIPSTICK JUNGLE (2) | NBC | 2,365 | 3,620 | 0.65 | moved to Fri |
| PUSHING DAISIES | ABC | 2,686 | 4,050 | 0.66 | |
| ELI STONE | ABC | 2,701 | 4,050 | 0.67 | |
| DIRTY SEXY MONEY | ABC | 2,761 | 4,050 | 0.68 | |
| BOSTON LEGAL | ABC | 2,830 | 4,050 | 0.70 | final 13 ep. season |
| NUMB3RS (2) | CBS | 2,878 | 4,050 | 0.71 | |
| THE NEW ADVS OLD CHRISTINE (3) | CBS | 2,883 | 4,050 | 0.71 | |
| THE GAME (2) | CW | 992 | 1,380 | 0.72 | |
| TERMINATOR: SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES | FOX | 2,876 | 3,940 | 0.73 | |
| GARY UNMARRIED | CBS | 3,101 | 4,050 | 0.77 | |
| PRISON BREAK | FOX | 3,155 | 3,940 | 0.80 | |
| THE UNIT | CBS | 3,296 | 4,050 | 0.81 | |
| GHOST WHISPERER (2) | CBS | 3,326 | 4,050 | 0.82 | |
| KNIGHT RIDER | NBC | 3,084 | 3,620 | 0.85 | |
| PRIVILEGED | CW | 1,216 | 1,380 | 0.88 | |
| WITHOUT A TRACE | CBS | 3,591 | 4,050 | 0.89 | |
| COLD CASE | CBS | 3,592 | 4,050 | 0.89 | |
| UGLY BETTY | ABC | 3,655 | 4,050 | 0.90 | |
| LIFE ON MARS | ABC | 3,691 | 4,050 | 0.91 | |
| LAST SEASON, SHOWS BELOW THIS LINE WERE RENEWED | |||||
| CHUCK | NBC | 3,338 | 3,620 | 0.92 | |
| SAMANTHA WHO? | ABC | 3,752 | 4,050 | 0.93 | |
| MY OWN WORST ENEMY | NBC | 3,411 | 3,620 | 0.94 | |
| KATH & KIM | NBC | 3,411 | 3,620 | 0.94 | |
| PRIVATE PRACTICE | ABC | 3,913 | 4,050 | 0.97 | |
| MY NAME IS EARL | NBC | 3,514 | 3,620 | 0.97 | |
| ELEVENTH HOUR | CBS | 4,072 | 4,050 | 1.01 | |
| WORST WEEK | CBS | 4,243 | 4,050 | 1.05 | |
| BONES | FOX | 4,225 | 3,940 | 1.07 | |
| THE BIG BANG THEORY | CBS | 4,562 | 4,050 | 1.13 | |
| AMERICAN DAD | FOX | 4,499 | 3,940 | 1.14 | |
| THE MENTALIST | CBS | 4,717 | 4,050 | 1.16 | |
| NCIS | CBS | 4,772 | 4,050 | 1.18 | |
| BROTHERS & SISTERS | ABC | 4,868 | 4,050 | 1.20 | |
| KING OF THE HILL | FOX | 4,747 | 3,940 | 1.20 | not renewed |
| FOOTBALL NT AMERICA PT 3 | NBC | 4,451 | 3,620 | 1.23 | |
| HOW I MET YOUR MOTHER | CBS | 5,004 | 4,050 | 1.24 | |
| E.R. | NBC | 4,592 | 3,620 | 1.27 | final season |
| FRINGE | FOX | 5,002 | 3,940 | 1.27 | |
| CSI: NY | CBS | 5,159 | 4,050 | 1.27 | |
| CSI: MIAMI | CBS | 5,368 | 4,050 | 1.33 | |
| LAW AND ORDER:SVU | NBC | 4,815 | 3,620 | 1.33 | |
| CRIMINAL MINDS | CBS | 5,409 | 4,050 | 1.34 | |
| SUPERNATURAL | CW | 1,844 | 1,380 | 1.34 | |
| 30 ROCK | NBC | 5,458 | 3,620 | 1.51 | |
| GOSSIP GIRL | CW | 2,083 | 1,380 | 1.51 | |
| SIMPSONS | FOX | 5,998 | 3,940 | 1.52 | |
| FAMILY GUY | FOX | 6,092 | 3,940 | 1.55 | |
| 90210 | CW | 2,189 | 1,380 | 1.59 | |
| TWO AND A HALF MEN | CBS | 6,461 | 4,050 | 1.60 | |
| HEROES | NBC | 5,804 | 3,620 | 1.60 | |
| SMALLVILLE | CW | 2,233 | 1,380 | 1.62 | |
| ONE TREE HILL | CW | 2,281 | 1,380 | 1.65 | |
| HOUSE | FOX | 6,612 | 3,940 | 1.68 | |
| OFFICE | NBC | 6,129 | 3,620 | 1.69 | |
| CSI | CBS | 7,491 | 4,050 | 1.85 | |
| DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES | ABC | 7,949 | 4,050 | 1.96 | |
| GREY’S ANATOMY | ABC | 8,278 | 4,050 | 2.04 | |
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The Renew/Cancel Index is a show’s Season To Date adults 18-49 viewership divided by its networks Season to Date average 18-49 viewership. Note: Only shows that have premiered during the 2008-9 broadcast season are on this list.
(1) CW MRC Sunday – The CW has leased its entire Sunday night to Media Rights Capital (MRC). Easy Money and Valentine have been cancelled. It is reported that MRC has the right (obligation?) to program Sunday nights throughout 2008-9 on the CW. What will they do next? Stay tuned.
(2) Friday night – Friday is quickly becoming an 18-49 wasteland, so these shows may be allowed a lower threshold for success than shows on other nights. My grading technique on shows with histories on Friday (only Numb3rs and Ghost Whisperer) is that until they reach their Index values from last season they still are at risk of non-renewal.
(3) New Advs of Old Christine: Perhaps CBS is willing to accept low numbers in its new timeslot indefinitely to build a new “comedy block”. Perhaps CBS will return Christine to the warmth and safety of Monday night and cut Worst Week or Gary Unmarried loose. And perhaps not.
How did we come up with our list? We found that last season, the future of a show was nearly directly related to its adults 18-49 average viewers divided by its networks 18-49 average viewers. Many other factors may matter, but they all seemed to boil down to that one number. Because American Idol so skewed Fox’s 18-49 average, and would make nearly all Fox shows fall into the “cancel” range, for Fox, I used the last STD 18-49 average *before* Idol. Last season, if a show had better than 92% of its network’s average 18-49 viewership (0.92 in our index) it was pretty safe, below that level it was in danger. We’re not sure what the magic number will be this season, but I’m very confident that our index will still indicate the shows most likely to be cancelled compared to those less likely to be cancelled.
—————————————————————-
For unscripted shows, the results from last season were far less cut and dried. A similar relationship did seem to hold between 18-49 averages, but some unscripted shows survived with very low numbers. My conclusion was that some unscripted shows must be so cheap that they are expected to do little more than fill air time and produce little in the way of viewership. However the closer a show is to the top of the list the more danger it’s in of being cancelled or not returning when it’s run is completed. Other shows can be judged by their relative position on our list ranked from most likely to be cancelled to least likely to be cancelled.
| PROGRAM | Net | STD 18-49 (LIVE+SD) (000) | Network Avg. STD 18-49 | Renew/ Cancel index | Status |
| IN HARM’S WAY | CW | 361 | 1,380 | 0.26 | |
| AMERICA’S TOUGHEST JOBS | NBC | 1,453 | 3,620 | 0.40 | |
| WIFE SWAP | ABC | 1,807 | 4,050 | 0.45 | |
| SMARTER THAN 5TH GRADER | FOX | 1,839 | 3,940 | 0.47 | |
| DEAL OR NO DEAL-FRI | NBC | 1,812 | 3,620 | 0.50 | |
| DON’T FORGET THE LYRICS | FOX | 1,976 | 3,940 | 0.50 | |
| SAT NIGHT FTBL PRE-GAME | ABC | 2,049 | 4,050 | 0.51 | |
| 48 HOURS MYSTERY | CBS | 2,100 | 4,050 | 0.52 | |
| SUPERNANNY | ABC | 2,106 | 4,050 | 0.52 | |
| COPS | FOX | 2,055 | 3,940 | 0.52 | |
| OPPORTUNITY KNOCKS | ABC | 2,175 | 4,050 | 0.54 | cancelled |
| HOLE IN WALL THU-8P | FOX | 2,184 | 3,940 | 0.55 | |
| AMW: AMERICA FIGHTS BACK | FOX | 2,399 | 3,940 | 0.61 | |
| 20/20-FRI | ABC | 2,511 | 4,050 | 0.62 | |
| COPS 2 | FOX | 2,457 | 3,940 | 0.62 | |
| FOOTBALL NT AMERICA PT 2 | NBC | 2,426 | 3,620 | 0.67 | |
| AMER FUNN HOME VIDEOS | ABC | 2,948 | 4,050 | 0.73 | |
| KITCHEN NIGHTMARES | FOX | 2,941 | 3,940 | 0.75 | |
| DEAL OR NO DEAL-WED | NBC | 2,811 | 3,620 | 0.78 | |
| SAT NIGHT FOOTBALL | ABC | 3,588 | 4,050 | 0.89 | |
| 60 MINUTES | CBS | 3,591 | 4,050 | 0.89 | |
| STYLISTA | CW | 1,294 | 1,380 | 0.94 | |
| AMAZING RACE 13 | CBS | 4,076 | 4,050 | 1.01 | |
| BIGGEST LOSER 6 | NBC | 4,069 | 3,620 | 1.12 | |
| DANCING W/STARS RESULTS | ABC | 4,868 | 4,050 | 1.20 | |
| EXTREME MAKEOVER:HM ED-8P | ABC | 5,022 | 4,050 | 1.24 | |
| SURVIVOR: GABON | CBS | 5,763 | 4,050 | 1.42 | |
| DANCING WITH THE STARS | ABC | 5,868 | 4,050 | 1.45 | |
| THE OT | FOX | 6,123 | 3,940 | 1.55 | |
| SUNDAY NIGHT NFL PRE-KICK | NBC | 5,745 | 3,620 | 1.59 | |
| AMERICA’S TOP MODEL | CW | 2,507 | 1,380 | 1.82 | |
| NBC SUNDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL | NBC | 8,479 | 3,620 | 2.34 |
Nielsen TV Ratings Data: ©2008 The Nielsen Company. All Rights Reserved. All viewership numbers are Live+SD.
NBC is going to have to find room in its schedule for the Office spin off. I think they were probably figuring on taking 30 rock off the air for a while to test that spot for the spin off, but if its numbers hold, I’m thinking NBC’s best bet would be to move 30 Rock to 8 pm and give Kath & Kim a lead in. Keeping My Name is Earl on deck to come back if anything horrible should happen. This depends a lot on how 30 Rock does during November sweeps, but I think it’s a viable idea. My Name is Earl has no room for growth anymore, and is more likely to keep bleeding viewers.
Guys, is it possible for you to do FOX’s index WITHOUT the World Series involved? I know FOX doesn’t take MLB into account for their internal scoring. I also know they do take American Idol into account. Perhaps you could list both in the future?
TSCC is sinking fast
I’m really excited about Old Christine. Not only has it dropped many positions since last week, but the index number is starting to get closer to the .92 range, although it has a long way to go.
Nick, sadly that’s not possible. We don’t calculate the averages we get them directly from Nielsen.
TSCC was around .80 just before the baseball interruptions. Hopefully it will recover in the next few weeks.
No! Not Chuck! Take me instead!
I think Earl/Kath & Kim will have all of their episodes aired even if both are taken off the schedule at one point or the other. I actually don’t think either will be renewed for next fall. Earl just keeps shedding viewers and new series Kath should do just the same.
Again, why is My Own Worst Enemy is on the renewal list. It’s doing terrible. And Chuck, Ugly Betty and Samantha Who will likely make it to the 2009-10 schedule regardless
Dan, again, the basic math of how the index works (in our estimation) continues to elude you. We may be wrong, but our take is that in almost all cases, the networks make the decision based on comparing how a show’s season average among 18-49 year old viewers compares to THAT network’s season average for 18-49 viewers.
Relative to its own network, MOWE is a bit below average, but not terribly so. There are like 5 NBC scripted shows in worse shape based on this metric, and based on where networks drew the line last year, currently MOWE is just inside the renewal zone. Plus, if you factored out the big impact of Sunday Night Football on the averages, versus NBC’s other scripted shows, MOWE would be pretty much exactly average. Our take is that networks do not cancel average performers.
The index can’t predict everything, but I’m guessing to this point of the season it has accurately predicted MOWE. You say the numbers are terrible, but looking at the 18-49 numbers, for NBC they are not terrible (they ain’t great, but they are hardly terrible).
Chuck isnt on this listing because it wasnt showed this past monday.So everyone needs to relax a lil.Chuck is safe and sound compared to terminator which is sinking faster then the titanic.
Travis
The thing about MOWE is that it’s got its premiere episode in its average. It’s been performing below Chuck since then, but is still considered higher on this list.
Travis, this list is for last week, when Chuck was aired, and it is on this list. It’s just on the not renewed side of things.
Julia, that’s a good point, last year Bionic Woman was cancelled under similar (actually even better)looking circumstances. but as Bill notes, it’s compiled in a “what would happen if the season ended today” fashion. It would be nice to see the trend in these tables, but, it would be nice to have $50 million, a staff, and a completely database driven platform to produce all the tables.
Mr.Seidman
the math in this process certainly eludes me (no sarcasm intende)so please explain:how can the index on PD have gotten worse if viewership increased during the last episode,specially seeing as it was steady during it?
Thank You
Ok, first I will admit I am a Chuck fan and really only care about NBC renewing it. But I have a question, is this week by week or are you averaging the shows 18-49 throughout the year?
If you are just comparing the numbers week to week could you please explain this to me below, to me it looks like Chuck did better than the other two or am I missing something.
I got this from NBC’s website for last week.
Kath/Kim 2.4/6 18-49
Chuck 2.6 7 18-49
MOWE 2.5/6 18-49
Thanks
Caio, they didn’t really get any worse — they just didn’t get any better.
They stayed about the same. PD’s average *did* increase by ~80,000 among 18-49 year olds, but ABC’s aggregate network average also went up by more than 80,000 (it increased by 110,000 week over week) so PD’s index number fell a tiny bit (one one hundredth).
@CrashMacKenzie
I now how you feel, it’s going back and forth on the cancellation line.
Travis, these numbers are Monday-Sunday of last week, they don’t count Monday this week.
I see,so it only increased because there were more people watchin ABC altogether.Well,thanks for the input.I for one will hope for the best.
Does prison break cost significantly less than heroes’ $4m to produce?
Steve — these are based on the season averages (but beginning with the official Nielsen season start on 9/22) not just one week’s worth of data.
Ben, I have no idea of the cost of PB, but if it isn’t at least a million dollars cheaper per episode, I’d be very surprised.
This is a cool site, found it a couple weeks ago. Index is a good way to look at what is likely to happen to a show since it breaks it down within each network. Just wanted to put down what I think might happen with a few shows that the index seems to be indicating something a little different at this point. This is just my opinion/feeling based on ratings info, not personal attachment to shows or perceived quality of the shows. Also, most of this takes into account retention rates for lead out shows and I know the index doesn’t factor this in, but I do think the networks do when the drop off is dramatic and it’s hurting the network for the night.
For ABC, for some reason I feel that Dirty Sexy Money will get a full season. I think because it has been hanging on to an ok amount of Private Practice’s audience and I just don’t know if they will cancel Eli, Daisies, and Money all at once. ABC seems to usually give one show a reprieve and I think Money could be it. Of course, it now has to go up against Law & Order, so if it starts dropping at all, it’s a goner, but if it can hang on it might last the season. Ratings would have to improve though for it to last beyond May. Life on Mars is retaining a similar % of Grey’s audience that Big Shots did last year so not good, I’d say it’s even in more danger than the index currently suggests. If it can hang on through November without losing more viewers, it will probably get a full season but it would have to move to a different timeslot. Also wouldn’t be surprised if Brothers & Sisters gets a new timeslot since its retention of Desperate Housewives seems to be slipping significantly as well but I don’t think its in danger of not getting renewed for next season.
For CBS, the one show performing the worst is already gone and just about everything else is doing well enough to last the whole season. The two questionable shows in my opinion are Worst Week and 11th Hour. Neither Week or Hour is doing great after 2 and a half men and CSI (Week so far is the better of the two), so I think they may be a little more vulnerable than the index suggests. Plus since this is CBS, they can afford to be a little more critical when deciding what to keep or cut, so I wouldn’t be surprised if one of these shows does not get a full season.
For CW, right now there isn’t much to say, what is doing good should stick around, what isn’t will be let go at some point. I don’t really see any unusual circumstances surrounding their shows so far.
For Fox, also not much to say especially since overall the index is a bit skewed due to the World Series. So far no shows seem to have any exceptions that would need to be taken into account to possibly go contrary to what the index is indicating currently.
For NBC, the only show that might be in a little more danger than it seems, is my own worst enemy. It’s not retaining a large amount of the Heroes audience and the index has it right around the border also. If it can hang in there, it will probably get a full season to have a chance to prove itself for a 2nd season.
So that’s my two cents, thanks for reading!! Again, great site and this is a very interesting way to judge how a show is doing based on the network it’s airing on.
It’s a shame about DSM: it can be a really entertaining show, fun, with some depth and wonderful performances. It seems like its retention out of PP hasn’t been bad, and DSM seems to be holding or slightly ticking up. Since DSM is one of only 2 shows that I watch consistently (HIMYM is the other), I’m really hoping ABC is patient with this one.
Caio, Pushing Daisies was effectively canceled. This is pretty much first hand information. The show was asked to “end,” in the episode being shot this week. You have to hope for about 1,000,000 more 18-49 year olds to watch the last episodes for even a back 9 to be purchased.
Before PD fans send Daisies to ABC or some similar stupid idea. I have a better one: Get one friend who DOESN’T watch the show, to watch the show. If every Nielsen person was able to convince one other Nielsen person the show would be “saved.”
Nick C
The show was indeed asked to “end” in case ratings go sour,which is not the same as saying it was effectively canceled.That´s a “just in case” situation
As for first hand information,pal,I have some myself.Check out the following website:http://savedaisies.com/
And yes,I agree with you,the better idea would be to get more Nielsen viewers to watch,and we´re working on that.SO STOP TRYING TO RAIN ON OUR PICNIC!!!!!!
Caio, just curious, how exactly are you trying to get more Nielsen viewers to watch a show? Is there an online community where they gather or something so you can contact them? I wouldn’t know how to go about finding someone with a Nielsen box, aside from coincidence and luck.
Caio, you’re totally misinformed. Pushing Daisies was asked to make the show a finale with emphasis on the fact that it needed to be made with the assumption the show would not be picked up for additional episodes. The reason wasn’t “just in case,” but because the network is leaning towards cancellation. It’s the worst rated show on ABC how could they possibly go sour? They are sour!
The show is over. No web site, daisy seeds, etc. can help. In fact I’m positive that the people behind the show would rather you just got someone else to watch instead. That is far more powerful than a petition or other nonsense.
The show was asked to END because it was already sour. The only “just in case,” scenario is a “we’re not canceling it yet, just in case the ratings get better.”
This is how you do it:you gon on line,to every blog about saving pd and leave message after message telling people to watch.That´s bound to be read by some Nielsen “owners”.Besides,those of us involved in the campaign are telling everyone at our schools/colleges/workplaces/block parties/local pubs.etc,etc,to watch.Some of those gotta have those pretty little boxes,dontcha think?
Well,Nick C,we seem to be saying the same thing,except I´m being optimistic and you´re not.I know just how badly the show is faring,and I´m perfectly aware that watching it is way better than any thing else.However,I can only go as far as telling people about the show,as I just told charming little Rachel P here.In a more direct aproach,I can keep with my “stupid ideas” and that´s about it.Worked for Jericho.
Caio, precisely because it “worked” for Jericho and then the show tanked it will :never: work again.
Don’t mind him, Caio. He’s singing the same song in another blog here about PD. My best bet is that he just gets off of it.
Thanks,Alde,I figured as much.
And Mr.Gorman,honestly,we all know it´s long shot.But better than nothing.
Caio, we’re not saying the same thing at all. You’re implying the show was told to make the 13th episode a Series Finale was a “just in case,” where that just makes no sense. They were told to make the show a SERIES FINALE. How can you spin that to mean anything else? PLEASE stop your nonsense. The people behind the show want to move on without disrupting ABC. Sometimes sending things actually pisses off Networks more than it helps. I know for instance that VERONICA MARS was likely to be picked up, but fans sent “Mars Bars,” and the whole thing backfired.
Alde, it’s not as if I’m HAPPY about the show being canceled. I just know it IS going to happen. Being told to re-write a show to be a series finale is a big deal. Fans being told to HOPE when there truly is none is just cruel.
Jeez Ugly Betty and Samantha Who arent safe, I think SW make decent numbers it still has 9 million viewers and Ugly Betty!!!!??? damn it has to make to 2009-2010 and still a 2nd placer in its timeslot
I’m gonna miss Dirty Sexy Money – its a really good sophiscated show.
Nick C
I´m trying to guess who you are,but I must confess I´m torn.For you to know so much,you must either work at the upper echelons of ABC or be the reincarnation of Nostradamus.Which one is it?Anyway,for the last time:I´m well aware of the 99,99% chances of the show getting the axe.That´s just how it works.Still,There are 8 episodes for viewership to increase.
And as for the whole thing backfiring:gimme a break.If nettworks don´t wanna hear from the fans,well,they´re in the wrong business.
And Bryan Fuller was told to rewrite the 13th episode so that it could be either a finale(yes,more likely),or a cliffhanger(not impossible).Even Bill Gorman admits the indexes can change as the season progresses,so why can´t you?
Caio, you’re wrong. ABC asked for the episode to WRAP IT ALL UP. It’s a series finale. That is specifically what they asked for. They did not ask for a cliffhanger. They specifically told them to make sure there was no cliffhanger.
I know Kristen heard the news and wrote her take. What she wrote was… unfortunate. It is making fans feel hope when there truly is none. Like I said come next week we are likely to hear official word on the show’s future. What Kristen wrote on her blog was extremely unfortunate. She decided to spin the news as “The show wasn’t canceled, they just asked for a re-write.” Then she decided it was possible the rewrite wasn’t the bad news it was.
Also I’m rather sure that the final episodes will likely not ever air. They will be available on the DVD set.
As for your attitude that you can’t hurt the future careers of people. You’re blind. Harassing people is never the answer. Dropping PD from the lineup is good business. It’s the worst rated show. If you want to campaign, just get people to watch the next episode. It is likely the last chance you have.
You know what,Nick C,I actually think you´re right.If ratings keep going the way they were,maybe not even the final episodes will air.I´m already on standby to pre-order my set of DVDs.
And let´s forget about Kristin dos Santos for a moment here.I´m not basing my expectations on her column;after all,for all I know,your source might as well be better than hers,or both of you could be full of it.I´m just keeping this attitude because although no order for the back nine episodes was made,none was made for the cancelation either,after other shows have been axed recently on ABC.Wishful thinking?Definetly a part of it.But not all.
And until you show me a newspaper picture of angry fans throwing rotten pie at ABC execs and egging their cars,talking of harassment is…unfortunate.
If I made the kind of money the execs make,my spirits would always be high,just enough to dodge those perky little flowers being sent.
Caio, filling up one’s incoming mail box is harassment. I’m sorry. It is. Like I said I know of one show that was going to get picked up that lost its shot when they had to deal with shipments of MARS BARS. You really think sending flowers is a good thing?
You seem to have a big problem with “semantics.” PD was told to wrap it up. They were told no shows would be ordered. The only reason a decision is going to come quickly is that the talent must be allowed to get work elsewhere. They were told the show would be “canceled,” by a certain date unless certain things happened in viewership. So far those viewers haven’t shown up.
I’m all for you trying to keep the show on the air, but there is really only one way: get viewers. You have to get around 1,000,000 18-49 year old viewers to watch the next episode. Good luck with that.
I don´t know if it´s a good thing.Even if it´s bad,better to have tried then delve into the land of “what if” afterwards.
As for the harassment part,we´ll agree to disagree on that.
And my semantics are doing just fine.They were told to wrap it up,ok.I admit,you might have a good source on that,I for one don´t,so I may have to take your word.
As for viewers showing up,all one can do is spread the word,and word is being spread already,so let´s just drop it.
I´m just confused about something,the Veronica Mars deal:how is it that it missed its shot due to Mars Bars,whatever they are?I guess the writers were made to clear the mail boxes and couldn´t get around to doing their job.
To be serious,I heard something about that,it seems those Mars Bars were kind of messy.Well,as far as daisies and their seeds go,not so much.And before you mention the pies,I´ll tell you I´d have agreed with you on that one,totally ridiculous,but thankfully people gave up on it.
Caio, what if someone is allergic to Daisies? Go ahead and send tons of stuff to ABC. I’m telling you what will work, and what will hurt people. Go ahead and hurt people. If you can’t see how sending someone something they didn’t ask for and tons of it as harassment… you need to think about it. How would you like tons (literally TONS) of daisies sent to your work place?
Nick C,c´mon!!Allergies?You´re giving me that?Maybe I shouldn´t get out of the house,so many allergens floating around in the air,I might die!!!
And sending people stuff they didn´t ask for,yeah,you´re right,that´s full blown harassment,I should´ve thought of that before.You know the other day,my mom sent me a book for my brthday as a surprise,the woman was harassing me!!!I mean sure,my address was there for all the world to see,and she is the one providing me with financial backing,but what gives the right?What if I was allergic to books?I´m gonna sue her.
And tons of daisies,would give my workplace some cheer,if propoerly distributed.Hospitals tend be a tad depressing,and when your patients die,well,more than just a tad.But so long as there were no daisies in the patients rooms,they´d be welcome in waiting rooms and doctor lounges.Care to send me some.Address them to Dr Annoying at the Johns Hopkins.Just make sure you send them in a couple of months,which is when my residency there starts.
And as for sending ABC tons of stuff,don´t worry,I won´t.Even because I live in Brazil for the moment,and all I can send them are e-mails.
I just got some viewers,if you care to know.A friend of mine,who lives in your beautiful country,published a stry on his college paper.The headline?:”Why PD shouldn´t be cancelled”.He also works at BestBuy,where he´s been distributing flyers and putting up posters.Good start,wouldn´t you agree?
Caio, never mind. If you’re so incredibly deranged that you want to compare sending someone at a work place tons (as in the weight) of unasked for product that disrupts work, etc. to receiving a birthday present you’re not someone worth giving advice to. You will continue to act without reason.
Just know this, if that all shows up, I guarantee bad things for Pushing Daisies.
Oh, also if you’re a DR, you would know that sending that amount of an allergen to someone would be LETHAL. We’re not talking 10 or 20 flower baskets but thousands. That isn’t smart.
Sure thing.:P
hahahaha!!!!You know what,why do I even bother?You know as well as I do those flowers won´t even make it to the inside of the studios.
And by the way:I never asked for your advice in the first place.
So what you’re saying is you believe the items will never be accepted, so you’re just causing mass disruption for multiple people to make a message? What message are you sending that you’re a corporate terrorist who can disrupt their business?
I’m amazed people don’t put real thought into these things. Letters are expected, but food, plants, etc. is over board.
Hey quit it people. Dont argue about PD. Its NOT officially canceled yet Ok?
Yes ABC did ask them to re-write the episode in case it ends. But does this mean its canceled? NO! ABC is most likely waiting for November 19’s ratings.
Hopefully they wont end the show.
12 nominations and 3 wins. What show has this kind of recognition?
Yes and how people arent tuning is another story — its weird. I blame the time slot and the day it airs.
Its gettins so much attention from the media that I think in my opinion Warner Bros wont let it go if ABC will — they’ll transfer the show to somewhere else.
PD looks more like a cable show anyways.
Sorry,I got carried away….
Won´t happen again.
Nick C, what’s your source with the VM/Mars Bars thing? Do you know it for certain? Because that piece of information makes me sick to my stomach.
I can tell you right now that Nick C is just plain wrong regarding Veronica Mars – why on Earth would network executives cancel (or at least choose not to renew a show) because fans tried to save it/show their appreciation. “Oh no, you sent me all these chocolate bars, and I ate them, now I’m fat – damn you Veronica Mars fans! Now I shall cancel your show! Take that!” Seriously, the trash some people write on forums. VM just got cancelled because it had multiple chances to prove itself and grow – and it couldn’t quite meet expectations (plus the CW has gone in a different direction with its shows).
What has caused the dramatic drop in the total of CBS’ 18-49 viewing numbers?
Without posting a really significant increase in the viewing figures Without A Trace has shot up from well below the 92 benchmark to renewal status.
i love pd, and it would kill me if the show gets the axe. but to say that signing petitions and sending stuff to abc would increase the likelihood of the show getting cancelled please… what are fans for?
i agree with caio it is a long shot, but we have to take that shot, its better to try atleast by this we can hope for an outcome.
chill guys…the bickering should stop, we all know one thing, the show is in danger and the petition is needed more than ever.
it could work or it could not, but we have to gamble on that. we need this show on air, don’t you just get sick of reality tv shows that never fails to prove anything but the obvious?
i say, join the petition, long live the piemaker!
Thank you,nedlovesme.But Nick C is right about one thing,more then petitoning,we should get more viewers.So spread the word about the show as best as you can,ok?
Pushing Daisies is DOA. Put the toe tag on it ang slide the corpse into the drawer at the morgue. PD was a good show, but its time has come to an end.
The end results of Save JERICHO, where that show ended up losing over 1/4 of its Season 1 audience when they gave it a 2nd chance, pretty much made certain networks wont keep a show going based on a “Save A Show” campaign. Though people will complain endlessly about how flawed Nielsen allegedly is, people working for advertisers know its the best measure of audience size and composition in the business. If there was a better cost effective system out there, they would be using it.
As Dr. McCoy on Star Trek would say “It’s dead, Jim”.
As ABC Fanatic would say “Killing Daisies”
Killing Daisies LOL
we’re not sure about this petition, like i said were taking a gamble. you can’t blame we LOVE this show. let us be and i’ll quote caio… dont rain on our picnic
hahaha nice cover story… should have shot higher and said you work at Mass General if you’re going to BS.
for people interested in saving the show…
visit this site, savedaisies.com
::crosses fingers::
I love this index. I’m quickly becoming obsessed by it….Helps that seems kind of spot on so far.
LJ,
You´re right.I was full of it.I´m actually an illegal immigrant from El Salvador,and I work as janitor here in a bar in NYC.Can you ever forgive me for lying.I know it is a sin,but this discussion board seemed so cool,I was feeling left out.I thought I could deceive all of you,cool kids.Apparently not.Please,don´t report me to INS!!!
Jack, I heard it directly from multiple people involved. What happened was Rob went and said “yes, try and save our show, we need your support!” Then someone came up with the MARS BARS idea. CW found out about it, and people had to work full time for a couple days arranging how the incoming candy would be sent to food centers (so people who need the food can get it). Then the execs at CW found out that Rob was involved in helping disrupt their work. The end result was a bitter response. Did they say it was the only reason? No. They did admit that a bad taste was left in their mouths when they were watching the MARS/FBI pilot.
Letters, petitions, etc. are one thing, but sending something that will disrupt WORK is entirely different. Many people forget that the people behind JERICHO with the peanuts worked with CBS and it was turned into a PROMOTIONAL STUNT.
Notice that no one from PD is on any web site asking fans to “save the show.” They aren’t promoting sending flowers, etc.
Petitions are nice, and far more productive.
Still the best answer is to go get 1 other person to watch PD. If everyone did that who was a fan, they’d save the show. Because logic dictates that the same amount of Nielsen Viewers would watch percentage wise. So organize a “get one friend,” campaign. This is simple you just reach out to other FANS, and get them to reach out to one non-fan.
A boost in ratings is all that can save a show that has been yellow lit. It may not be canceled but they aren’t making any new ones and were told to END IT. If that isn’t a death warrant I don’t know what is.
Actually, someone from the show IS offering tips to help save the show. See http://savedaisies.com/?p=13
Getting friends to watch the show is great, but what if they are not Nielsen households? No one I know is part of that group. I’ve never known anyone who participated in a Nielsen household.
One thing that should help, at least with showing viewership on alternative venues, is watching episodes of PD online, along with buying them and buying the DVD’s.
GW, sorry that’s not good enough. I don’t believe they’re talking to anyone of importance on the show. For one their “insider,” is anonymous and for the other the advice is horrible. I mean that advice will do nothing to get PD off the cancellation schedule.
Right now tonight the show is being pre-empted for DWTS, and next week CMA. You may have seen your last episode of PD. It’s that bad. A real insider would know that. The ONLY chance PD has is if the next episode around 8M people tune in.
You don’t have to know someone in the Nielsen “family.” If EVERY fan asked one person to watch and got them to watch the law of averages would work in your favor.
BTW, ABC people may read Kristen’s blog but they don’t scroll through the comments or put any weight into them. All ABC cares about is advertising.
Chuck’s on the bubble??? No way! That show’s fantastic! It’s better than Heroes by miles!
Nick C
First of all,I want to apologize for the last time we spoke.I let myself get carried away,and it was humiliating for the both of us.I say we call it a truth.
That being said,I´m gonna say I hate to admit but I think you´re right.Things are looking just as bad for PD as you described.However,I think you´re missing some things in your last entry.
If what you say about the Veronica Mars deal is true,and I believe it to be,then certainly the showbiz community learned their lesson.What I mean to say is,even if cast and crew want to save PD,they won´t risk putting themselves in the same position that Rob guy you said put himself.Which would explain the “covertness”of the inside source GW was talking about.Yes,it might as well be a bad or even fake source,but what I just said makes sense to me.
I can´t really make an educated guess on how petitions,flower shipments/etc would work or not.If you can,please tell me exactly what it is you do that allows you to know,i.e.,are you a tv critic or something.I´m not being sarcastic or ironic,I´d just like to learn more and not depend so much on media reports.
Thank you,and once again,I´m sorry.
Enough about Pushing Daisies… who cares? What we need to be discussing is saving Eli Stone!!!
OK… probably not that much can be done to save the show… and if there isn’t some mircale that saves the show, I hope they at least get to wrap it up and not leave everything hanging.
This is probably a stupid question but do the networks take into consideration the fact that for the most part network viewership is down significantly from previous years and not likely to change any time soon? Isn’t it time to modify the definition of a hit show to reflect current network viewing trends?
Kathy, of course they do. That’s one reason I created this index the way I did. It tracks show performance *relative* to other shows on the same network this season. It doesn’t compare the absolute performance of shows, only the relative performance.
Caio, it’s over. Move on. The people behind the show are.
Kathy, of course they do. However at the same time, TV may be down, but I bet there will be an upswing later on down the road.
http://www.thrfeed.com/2008/07/cbs-moonlight-f.html
Also check out that link about sending “junk,” to a Network. She clearly states it wasn’t because of the peanuts in Jericho’s case. You can tell she isn’t for people sending things.
No, no, Chuck! Get back into that safe zone. Pretty-please?
Thanks Bill. That being the case, if the networks used this type of analysis, do you think it would increase the chances that the networks would pick up other networks castoffs? A show that is a dog on one network could be a hit on another. I seem to be seeing more talk of that kind of thing lately.
nick c: im not starting an argument, but reading your comments and replies i get this feeling that you’re not fond of PD Anyway, we said we’re TRYING TO SAVE THE SHOW, with emphasis on the word TRYING, i also said that we know that this petition/sending daisies could also not work. until then, we’ll still go on trying.
tell us to move on if the show is Officially cancelled and we’ll still continue sending petitions to ABC to reconsider.
right now, we’re trying to change the direction that the ABC people’s minds are going.
so i still have my fingers crossed.
I am wondering what the impact Monday Night Football has on shows like Chuck TSCC? Particularily Chuck as they are so close to the index number. And for that matter, Dancing, given it is “seasonal”, should have some impact as well, I think.
this list utterly fails. Why?
This is an example of an old regime, a failure to adapt the calculation, metric to the CURRENT STATE OF PROGRAMMING.
All I can say to the author is
“It’s the Economy stupid”
a week from today this list will be proven unreliable.
dirtysexyj, Huh? Perhaps your medication dosage needs to be adjusted.
tjd_chill, the broadcast line up on Monday will likely see some benefit after MNF ends this year, that’s why I caution against making any conclusions about many of the shows this early in the season.
Bill – A suggestion… It seems that every week the comments are cluttered with things like “TV SHOW A is awesome your dumb if you thing their going to cancel it!!!”
Perhaps putting the “How we come up with our list” explanation (which makes it pretty clear it’s nothing personal again any particular show, it’s just numbers and math and comparitive analysis) directly above the list rather than buried below would help. Perhaps not… but it’s worth a shot. Because it if it bugs me when people clearly didn’t read the methodology before starting their mini-rants (and sometimes not-so-mini-rants), I imagine by this point it drives you crazy.
CT, I can guarantee you with 100% certainty and 0 margin of error that if the “how we came up with our list explanation” was at the top of the post, in the middle of the post, above the list, in the middle of the list and below the list we would still get comments like:
ShowX is the only show I ever watch on network XYZ. It’s my favorite show. The Nielsen ratings are invalid. Everyone I know watches this show. If XYZ cancels this show, I will never watch XYZ again. EVER.
CT, ditto what Robert wrote. That said, I generally don’t find comments like that bothersome or intrusive. Some folks are just unaware of the way things work and are genuinely open to learning. I appreciate that. As for the others, I just ignore them.
nedlovesme,
Ok. The show is canceled. Talks are under way right now with the production behind PD. What decisions are reached I won’t know until tonight, but right now, the show is over and the last episode aired last week against Obama. Perhaps a deal will be reached to continue to air the shows, but ABC needs to worry about the health of Private Practice which is tied to the weakness of Pushing Daisies. So it’s hard to say what will happen.
I think you’re WAY off with Ugly Betty. It’s not performing as well as it did last season, but then again, neither are Thursdays in general and ABC as a whole. The fact that UB averages 89% of ABC’s overall average is not shabby considering it airs at 8pm, and many 8pm series fall behind the network average.
To add – if you want to actually make this a valid listing (which I don’t think it is right now), you need to come up with a metric that takes into consideration:
1) What you’re doing now, the series average vs. the STD average
2) The season to date average of the same timeslot across every day of the week on the same network v. the series average
and…
3) The series average v. the network’s average for the night itself.
Comparing UB to Samantha Who is a bit like apples and oranges – different timeslots completely. All things considered, UB performs MUCH better than Samantha Who and Kath & Kim, which you currently have as renew.
Doug, you can do whatever you like on your own blog and we’ll link to it. Comparing Samantha Who to Kath & Kim doesn’t make sense to us since they are on different networks. There are all kinds of machinations which could be added that are more trouble than they’re worth. Even comparing Samantha Who to Ugly Betty seems bad since one is an hour show and one is 30 minutes.
SW benefits from a DWTS lead in that UB doesn’t get. UB may benefit from the end of daylight saving time. these are point in time list, but we believe for the worst and best performers its accurate now and will be much more accuare for everything in between as the season progresses. We’re not likely to spend 40 hours a week producing the list though, sorry.
Doug, I don’t think Ugly Betty is in imminent danger, it has plenty of time to recover. But last season, shows that did 89% of their network average (except for Friday shows) got cancelled. Could the line (which was 92% last season) move as low as 89%? Quite possibly.
As for your second post, is there other data that might be used to be even more accurate? Quite possibly. But we don’t get season to date averages for timeslots, or network averages by night. We use what we can get. And the fact is using what we get was uncannily predictive last season. This season, we’ll just have to wait and see.
Edit: And as Robert posted just above me, if you want to produce another list knock yourself out and we’ll link to it.
Nick C
I´m sorry to hear (ok,read) that.Do you think at least they´re gonna launch the whole second season on dvd,or not even that?
Caio, they will release Season 2 on DVD to try and make as much money out of the show as they can. Canceled shows make it on DVD all the time.
Nick C
Sorry,forgot to post this earlier.
On your personal opinion,is there any hope for pd in the way of changing time slots,going to cable,or maybe even of a movie being made,like those other 2 shows mentioned(forgot their names).
I’m pretty sure Nick confirmed today that PD has been cancelled off ABC, so there isn’t going to be any sort of time-slot change on that network.
And as for the other two shows becoming movies, is one of those you are referring to Firefly/Serenity?
Rachel P
Thanks,yeah,those are the ones.Had forgotten the names.Actually,firefly is the show and serenity the movie,right?
Gorman you are missing some pieces to the puzzle , one reason your a blogger and not a network programmer.
Caio:
Yes, Firefly was the show and then they had to change the name to Serenity for the movie due to some legal thing with Fox or something.
Dirtysexyj, better that than an unemployed punk who lives in his mom’s basement and doesn’t know the difference between you’re and your. right?
Scary thing is, Robert… I actually know someone like that. =|
Guys, seriously, why is Chuck still in the danger zone? I thought it did a lot better last week? And how long does the show have to prove itself until NBC does something? I was thinking it was safe for now, at least until the Spring, but the Heroes firings makes me wonder. Also, there is talk about a new programming president coming in. A while back there was a lot written about how NBC was going to really promote this show and it’s 3-D episode during the Super Bowl. Could all that change with a new president of programming?
Frank, ours is a site about NUMBERS. And we prognosticate based on numbers, not what anyone wishes would happen or hopes will happen. We’ve explained how we calculate these numbers the best we could. Based on the combination of NBC’s and Chuck’s performance from one week to the next, it went from a .92 to a .91 in the index. Last year .91 was in the “danger zone”. All the data is on the site for you to investigate.
And if you look at the coding – it *is* safe for now and *all year*, it’s just not currently in the renewal zone.
pushing daisies is cancelled whats gonna air on the 19th?
the above question is for nick c as he seems to know a lot. thanks
Based on the combination of NBC’s and Chuck’s performance from one week to the next…
Ah, that’s the part I forgot. NBC doing better on the whole raises the 18-49 average.
FrankJ, Chuck is safe until spring. The question is whether it will get a third season. It’s close to the “renewal” threshold and NBC’s numbers are skewed a bit by football, so if it keeps performing as it is, it probably has a decent chance of another season.
CHUCK is rather safe for now. NBC doesn’t exactly have much going for it. When Football numbers die down, CHUCK should be fine. At some point it won’t be up against DWTS and Football. CHUCK doesn’t have to worry about IDOL either. So I feel CHUCK should grow. Using the Super Bowl to promote it could be brilliant. Currently NBC doesn’t have much.
nedlovesme, it is hard to say. Right now Barry is looking to make a deal for PD with his other new show getting on ABC. So we’ll see.
Although I thought I was pretty clear in the first paragraph of the post I will repeat myself.
I don’t think any other shows besides Lipstick Jungle, Pushing Daisies, Eli Stone, Dirty Sexy Money and *maybe* Life are in danger of cancellation prior to January.
There are a lot more shows that are in danger of not being renewed for 2009-10, but there’s a lot of time between now and May and many things can change.
Bill, I feel like I should make some comment arguing that one of the Friday shows doesn’t belong in the “danger of cancellation” section. That hasn’t been brought up yet this week….
Holly, ok I don’t believe NUMB3RS belongs there. In fact most Networks expect less from a Friday Show. There is a different set of expected numbers for each night for each network. Still I think what this site does is great. It should help fans accept things, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.
Yes, I really appreciate what this site does too with this index. It helps fans know what’s going on and how their favorite shows are doing. That way, it won’t be as hard of a blow if they find out their favorite show is cancelled one day. Imagine looking at this index for several weeks and expecting what can happen compared to all of a sudden one day hearing your favorite show was cancelled. This softens the blow definitely.
Bobby Seidman,
I expected so much more from you? Is that the best you could do? Calling someone a “punk”
I could buy you and Gorman a hundred times over, maybe you ought read the very publication that supports your rhetoric.
Keep it up, you are simply proving what many at the the house of the mouse have known for years.
Thanks Nick, now the thread feels complete
How is LOM safer than DSM when,
Last at 10 p.m. was ABC’s Dirty Sexy Money at 6.25 million viewers and a 2.0/ 6 among adults 18-49. Comparably, that put retention out of the second half of lead-in Private Practice (Viewers: 8.70 million; A18-49: 3.1/ 8 at 9:30 p.m.) of 72 percent in viewers and 65 percent in the demo.
Rounding off the 10 p.m. time period was ABC’s struggling Life on Mars, at 8.92 million viewers (#2) and a third-place 2.9/ 8 among adults 18-49. Comparably, that out retention out of the second half of lead-in Grey’s Anatomy (Viewers: 15.99 million; A18-49: 6.2/15) of just 56 percent in total viewers and 47 percent in the demo.
Do you bloggers even consider retention? LOL
DirtySexy: you can use your huge cash stockpile to hire an analyst from somewhere like Magna to explain it to you — perhaps they will disagree with us and you can report back on the findings. Or you can start your own blog!
The simple answer is LOM is safer because it has a higher average among 18-49 year old viewers. We do not consider retention as important as the number of 18-49 year old viewers relative to the network’s average. I guess we’ll just wait until 11/13 when you say this list will surely be proved wrong?
Thanks for the civil response Mr. Seidman.
How did you know about 11/13? scary.
Trust me I am nervous , but I also say “yes we can”
Would you consider buying me a beer if you are wrong about DSM?
provided that you’re of legal drinking age, certainly.
Robert, you may be owing the man a beer. I think ABC is only going to cancel 2 of the 3 shows now. Hard to say what direction they are going to go with DSM and Eli Stone.
Nick, ABC has four new dramas, plus Lost to find room for midseason. In addition, they have three comedies plus Scrubs. They’re dumping at least three dramas.
Nick, I’m with Julia but if ABC does keep one of them, I’d be very surprised if it wasn’t DSM. Not just because it has a higher average 18-49 viewership, but because it has at least a tiny bit of zeitgeist. Outside of the “covers TV” space, I never see anyone reference Eli Stone, DSM does have at least a tiny bit of buzz. But it’s 18-49 numbers are so low, since they’re going to cancel PD anyway, I’d be surprised if they didn’t cut DSM at the same time so they can restart Wednesdays around Private Practice and promote both new shows at the same time.
But, they could pull the “move it to Friday” move and a beer would still be in order. While Wife Swap and Supernanny both have lower averages, I believe they both have at least one repeat airing in those totals (could be wrong) where DSM and Eli do not. One failing of the way we get the data from Nielsen is it’s not possible to run this for original airings only.
Julia, I’m quite aware of the dramas, comedies ABC has coming. It’s just what I’ve heard. I lean Robert’s way too. If I’m not canceling one of the 3 it would be DSM that I’d keep. They also dropped the new Alysa Milano comedy from the schedule as well as reduced orders of 2 of the dramas from 13 to 10.
Yeesh! The lack of new episodes is making several shows take a drop, just as I thought. I’ll be curious to see where some of the freshmen shows stand after next week’s airings.
I hope Fringe jumps up on the list after Nov 11th. Hopefully Fox is advertising to remind people.
Also of note, Bryan Fuller has reached a deal to go back to HEROES. He can’t go until ABC makes it “official.” So now we see how ABC treats him. ABC has made the decision to not pick it up. So all they have to do now is put it in writing and Fuller will be taking over show writing duties over at HEROES.
ABC could sit until Mid-January (how long Fuller is contracted for) or they could let him go now. I’m hearing we should hear something very soon.
So HEROES fans rejoice, the man who helped make Season 1 so amazing is on his way back. Hopefully it’s not too late.
NickC and his mysterious ABC inside information…
Some are saying that with all the buzz about Fuller returning to Heroes that might make ABC actually give Daisies another chance, even if an unofficial decision has ostensibly been made. If everyone is hailing Fuller’s return to Heroes as that show’s salvation, why would ABC want to help out a competitor?
I don’t think we’ll hear anything official until the episode airs on the 19th.
KellyH, I have no inside information at all, but that sounds like wishful fan fantasy.
If ABC does have Fuller under contract and wants to screw with NBC they could just stop him from joining until February (killing any Heroes assistance this season) if Nick’s info is correct. However, that would seem like a way to really piss people off, perhaps with no benefit to you.
KellyH, ABC will not pick up Pushing Daisies. Bryan knows the show is dead and is ready to work over at HEROES. Also you assume that ABC thinks it would be helping a competitor. Perhaps they think it would be sabotaging a competitor?
ABC is still in discussions with Barry about PD. The discussions revolve around the airing of the remaining episodes and not on picking up 9 more. Barry has another series and ABC is trying to get it for 2009.
Some people will spin anything anyway they can. The facts are these: Bryan has reached a deal with HEROES. PUSHING DAISIES is the worst rated scripted show on ABC.
Keeping around your worst show just to keep a writer from writing on a competitors show that is going into the ground? It’s too little too late for HEROES. I know ABC isn’t worried about that.
I don’t have any delusions about Daisies surviving. Nick hasn’t provided us any information on Fuller and Sonnenfeld supposedly lobbying ABC for one chance on another night. Would be interesting to hear if that happened or if anything came of it. As of now, the episode for the 19th is still on the schedule.
Sorry, Nick, crossed your post…
While I don’t disbelieve anything Nick says here–it sounds like it all makes sense…it is kind of a sad commentary that 3 Emmy wins (including a major one for Barry) and 12 nominations don’t mean a thing anymore. Time was when major wins could buy Arrested Development another season and a half. The Emmys play no role in show survival anymore.
KellyH, the two aren’t even comparable. One is an hour long serial/procedural. The other is a 30 minute comedy.
As for Awards there is a massive difference. AD won five MAJOR awards: Comedy Series, Comedy Writing, Comedy Directing, Comedy Casting, and Comedy Editing. As well as being nominated for art direction and best supporting actor (Tambor). That is from memory so if I left something out…
PD meanwhile won two majors: Comedy Directing and Comedy Editing. It also won a minor in Score. PD was nominated for the most part for a lot of minor awards like set design, hair & makeup, prosthetic makeup etc. Lee Pace, Kristen Chenowith, and Bryan Fuller were also nominated for major awards.
The difference is that AD WON the major awards while PD was just nominated.
The BIG award is best Comedy Series. AD won that. PD wasn’t even nominated. If PD had been nominated or had won you’d likely see a full season pickup.
Nick C, why do you assume it is too late for Heroes? It has had some bumps in the road (ok, I know thats a severe understatement), but I think it can and will get back on track; especially with Bryan Fuller coming back to scribe. I have no dilusions that it will ever be able to achieve the same ratings it had in S1, but it has always done well with the demos and, if this renew/cancel index is worth its salt (which I believe it is), it isn’t going anywhere.
As far as the story telling goes, I have been enjoying the storylines immensley. I can understand why some have thrown their arms up in the air and walked away, but it has always been a show to keep the viewer guessing. I guess some just people want instant gratification and like to be spoon fed the plot.
So help me to understand why you think it is too late.
BTW, I’m not attacking you in any way, but it just seems to me that Heroes has become a verbal punching bag in the media and I am don’t even think in it’s worse episodes it is nearly as bad as the mauling it has been recieving. As a fan, I have my back up ready to defend.
I really need to spell/grammer check before I hit the submit button…sorry about the last paragraph.
Heroes wil be lucky if they average 7 millions next february.
DD, it is much harder to get lost viewers back. Generally once a show loses viewers it’s over. It would take exceptional word of mouth and good publicity to change that. The writing on HEROES is awful. It’s everything you’re taught not to do in school. I’m not being mean or vicious, but stating the truth.
Basically Season 1 was written about the characters and the developed characters pushed the story to fruition. The “Fruition,” was bad. It was a bad ending to a very interesting first season. Season 2 on the other hand was the start of the end. Season 2 the story started pushing the characters. Characters made decisions that were either “stupid,” or “against character,” and the only reason these decisions were made was to move the story forward. The story became more important than the characters.
That is STILL continuing today. In fact I’d say it’s much worse. Some characters like Claire, Peter, Sylar, Hiro, and Mohinder are acting entirely like puppets to the story and have destroyed their characters.
Lucky for everyone involved the Series has a cheesy out. Hiro can go back in the past to season 1 and warn his former self to not do X. Then they can act like season 2 and 3 never happened. Cheesy? Sure, but at this point the characters have gone to a road that makes no sense for the characters.
It would also be a big enough and risky move that if the rest of the season 4 was written right they could perhaps slowly build back viewers. It’s not impossible just unlikely.
ABC is saying LOST will be airing on Wednesday nights in January in the current Private Practice slot.
I thought LOST was airing in the Pushing Daisies spot. That’s what was insinuated by Ausiello. If it’s in the PP spot, where does PP go?
I agree that the writing on Heroes has gone to the crapper. The question is whether it’s too late for Fuller to save it. If he can’t do it, nobody can.
Kelly, all we can do is speculate and rumor monger until the offical announcements but I like the idea of Lost at 9p, Life on Mars at 10pm, and Private Practice on Thursdays after Grey’s Anatomy,
I believe Robert’s idea is the direction ABC is leaning.
Just remember it’s the first week of November, and I’ve yet to know a network that didn’t change something between now and January. So ABC was smart in just saying when LOST is coming back.
LIFE got picked up for a full season.
‘Life’ pickup link:
http://www.thrfeed.com/2008/11/nbc-orders-full.html
If it weren’t NBC, I’d be very surprised but with ratings dogs like Kath & Kim already picked up. All they need to do now is pick up Lipstick Jungle and it will be a full sweep since Knight Rider was already picked up.
I like Life, but if ever there were two shows that seem like ought to flip flop networks it’s Life and Burn Notice.
Robert, do you think Burn Notice would do well on NBC? I think it’s an interesting show for USA, but not sure the masses would “get it.” If anything shouldn’t it be on CBS? It’s all old people and it’s a procedural.
Nick, I use Bill’s wife as my primary proxy for mainstream appeal! She gets Burn Notice just fine (there’s nothing to get! it’s simple). It’s Life that has many subtle shades to it. I think her eyes would glaze over, but Bill could put it to the test
Nick C, though I respectfully disagree, I can agree with you on the writing…they need to spend more time “idiot proofing their plots (ie: why would Peter go back in time and kill Nathan when he had at least a dozen other options), but lets face it…it’s a comic book story. I don’t watch to be blown away by mind-blowing dialog. I admit I spend some time thinking WTF, but I watch for the entertainment value and can overlook what I find mildly stupid.
I don’t think Heroes is going anywhere for a long time. And thats just fine with me.
I don’t get it. Both Life and Knight Rider get a lot worse ratings and key demos than Eli Stone. Yet, both shows were picked up for a full season just recently. And there is still no news on Eli Stone. Why did NBC pick up those two shows? Are ABC’s standards for ratings higher than NBC?
What do you speculate for the PD spot? Scrubs and According to Jim? And yes, ABC’s ratings standards are higher than NBC’s.
DD, the American Viewing Public are a lot less forgiving than you are. The “WTF,” moments on Heroes have lead to its current state.
KellyH, that doesn’t sound too bad. It would be up against CBS’ comedies, Knight Rider, and American Idol.
I think Eli Stone is pretty dead Julia.
Julia, you can’t compare the ratings of shows on different networks and ask why one network picked up the shows with lower ratings than the shows on the other network. NBC’s average is much lower than ABC’s, so shows that are doing worse than ABC shows look better to NBC.
what i know is, there is still no official word about PD cancellation, the next episode which will air on the 19th still stands.
and lost is coming back, but it will air wednesdays at 9 after a wednesday 3 hour special.
according to Nick, PD was canceled a few days ago but ABC doesnt want the creator to go save another sinking ship (Heroes on NBC)
Cool, I never said that at all. ABC isn’t petty like that. Other people have implied that, I have not.
I did not see it reported on this website , but ABC did order more DSM scripts.
What Nick actually said was that ABC was keeping mum about PD’s fate because of sensitive discussions with Sonnenfeld (not Fuller) about airing the remaining episodes and another series of his in the works.
Nick, you’ve had a lot to say about the current state of Heroes, but I’d like to hear more about whether there’s anything positive that Fuller can bring to the table that will at least stop the bleeding.
That damn Kristin is still dispensing hope. Ausiello, at least, is getting realistic.
Regarding Eli Stone, here is my understanding. ABC has incentive to keep Berlanti happy, so they ordered four more scripts around the time of the premiere.
But the show failed to deliver–big time–on twto major gifts: the endless Katie Holmes promotional hype and the generous “Dancing” lead-in.
I like Eli–think it’s a decent show if it wouldn’t wear its politics on its sleeve so much–but you just can’t squander generous network promotion and lead-in like it has. It got what it did because its creator/EP also runs one of ABC’s anchor shows (Brothers and Sisters).
I think the reason Kristin and all her disciples kept hanging onto hope with PD even after there was no evidence that hope was warranted was that while ABC WAS generous with promotion before the season started, it was never generous with scheduling, as it was with Eli. But that’s all pure speculation.
If talks with Sonnenfeld are still going on, my guess is that they center around ABC never considering another time slot, and that that is Barry’s main card to play with airing the remaining episodes, but again, I’m just theorizing.
whats so wrong about dispensing hope? i say yes to hope.
i think we’re divided as pessimists and optimists..
False hope is a cancer that eats at the soul, and Kristin knows very well that the hope she is dispensing is false.
Let me be clear. I love “Daisies” very much. When I saw the second season of Heroes crash and burn, I was happy for Bryan that he had moved on and wasn’t part of it. I did my share of “campaigning” (through letters, I’m a big foe of sending the networks “stuff”) when I thought it would do some good. I was willing to hold out hope through the episode that aired against Obama. When it failed to beat even one of the three networks showing the infomercial, I began to see reality for what it was. I really liked Kristin’s article that she posted BEFORE that episode aired. It’s all the “rumor control” she’s posted since then (and the first one was in response to Nick C’s comment here that ABC had given up after seeing the Obama episode numbers) that has been damaging. When I saw that ABC was going to air Dancing in the PD spot after election day, I knew that was the end.
ABC was patient and knew the value of the show creatively. The one thing I wish would have happened would be for them to have experimented with a time slot change before it was too late. Sunday at 8:00 was flying all over the internet a few weeks ago. It screams “Sunday show” like nothing else. Those who still care about EM:HE would have followed it to Wednesdays at 8:00. A simple switch for one week, just to see. But ABC didn’t want to touch its successful Sunday lineup. I understand that. I just wish that they would have done one experiment…just to see. It couldn’t have hurt anything.
i think the “hope” here is open for any interpretation. it depends, like i said an optimist would consider that there still is some kind of a way, a pessimist would say that the hope is well, hopeless and as you said false.
when i heard that ABC wasn’t participating in any of the Obama campaign i knew then that they were making a big mistake. For me, is seemed mundane that they would expect people to prefer watching PD rather than watch something that concerns the nation.
in some article i read somewhere, educated people are those that are most likely to watch ABC and NBC and obviously educated people would prefer watching the update on the probably most important election of the United States rather than a quirky show.
the election was the hype during those days. PD was a poor match against Obama. Did ABC not know this? it was so obvious for me. So really, they can’t be surprised that the show didn’t deliver during this time.
and they should also know that duh, since the elections are over people would think of picking up their remote and tune in to something other than the endless election thingy on TV for endless weeks. also, i think it was understandable for ABC to air DWTS in place for PD it is their strongest show and people just can’t wait to see the results, can they?
if the cancellation of PD is based on this, i think it’s not enough.the reason is too weak.
and the writer’s strike did some damage too. and the show does not get enough promotions .i know some people that doesn’t know that the show exists because they said they haven’t seen much of the show being promoted.
that’s why we’re saying that the show needs time. Time away from the old election hype, probably a new time can help too. and yes, i say time for promotions would be really good too.
nedlovesme, I say this as another PD fan. The cancellation is not based on performing poorly against the Obama infomercial. It’s based on being the lowest rated scripted show on ABC. Period.
nedlovesme, hope is one thing, denial is another. Hoping that ABC keeps the show, against all existing data that proves bad performance, and failure to launch in spite of all the accolades from the press, is a commendable example of blind faith.
Blind faith that should take fans to churches in droves lighting candles for the show, instead of sending junk to the network. What you guys want is a miracle. They happen, so I’m not dismissing faith. Actually think there is a better chance of an act of god, than of ABC ordering the back 9 as it is. A plague that sweeps through the sets of LA killing all cast and crews of all the other shows on TV, leaving the PP people unscathed, and it the only show on TV, is the only circumstance that would save it’s hide.
The Obama night was terrible for PD. It still did worse that any other show on ABC,that week with the exception of DSM. That is the issue. There is no way around it, PD is ABC’s worse performing show. Ignoring that, and and saying the will be no consequences, is being in denial. It was pimped beyond all measure by the press, and still nobody seems to wants to give it a try. That is the problem.
Here is the problem. Barry wants PD to continue to air the remaining episodes. ABC doesn’t want to air episodes for a show they are killing. Bryan has an agreement to return to HEROES. If Barry wins out, then ABC won’t cancel the show immediately. Which would put Bryan out of the picture for HEROES this season. I think they will work something out. ABC has to make room for some new shows, and PD is the worst rated show they have. It’s just business.
For those of you who wish to believe Kristen over me (she is media after all) consider that ABC has to make decisions soon about what shows to move and what to add. PD isn’t airing in time to alter their decisions. PD is not airing next week. So they have all the data on PD they will have to make a decision. The best night of PD was the night against Obama, and it still was one of the 2 worst shows on ABC that week.
I think Wifeswap and PD are doing the same demo.. but Wifeswap is a reality (cheaper) in a lower HUT day (friday) and again, dirty cheap (not even a host!) and PD is really expensive.
Maybe ABC would be willing to do a few 2 hour blocks on Fridays in December or January to air the rest of the episodes. They barely care about Fridays to begin with, and really don’t care about December.
Julia, all I know is Barry didn’t reach a deal yet with ABC. So it’s up in the air. However you’re right, doing a few blocks would make sense except we’re talking about 8 episodes that have yet to air. That is a lot of air time for a show that doesn’t make you money.
I would like to know why Mr. “I have all the answers” thinks anyone should believe his inside information about any show? Where does your info come from? Who is your source? Just because you tell us that you have an inside source and have confirmed yada yada yada means I should believe you? Maybe your great aunt Sophia with dementia thinks she works for ABC and is giving you all your hot tips as to who gets the axe or not. I’m just saying…
PieHo, I just suggest you look at the accuracy of my posts on here about “inside,” information. Before any blog or anything else talked about PD being told to rewrite the 13th episode I posted about it on here (due to a conversation on here about the subject of PD). It was then reported by media. I also mentioned Fuller going to HEROES before anyone reported anything about it. My information on certain projects is as good as it can get, and for the rest I’m in the same boat as most people with connections to the industry.
I’m not going to post everything about every show I have info. on. It just happens the info on PD is relevant to the index here.
it was pimped beyond all measure by the press? please, the only people who endorses the show is sos santos. watch abc and you get every promotional thing about private practice, life on mars etc. etc. but no PD.
so i say this as a personal opinion, ABC did a poor job promoting the show.
ABC was killing the show and they expect the ratings to spike up? please..
nedlovesme, blaming it on promotion doesn’t matter. It’s dead. We’re going to have to get over it and move on.
according to this site, Heroes looks pretty safe, but if you factor in its 4 million per episode budget…it looks a lot worse.
watch Heroes people!
Well I for one was glad ABC didn’t air the Obama thing. I was already sick of the campaigns and the election and was glad I had actual shows to watch. I am sure there were plenty of other people who agreed with me on that.
And it’s not like we didn’t already know that Obama thinks he’s God’s gift to humankind. You don’t have to watch an infomercial to learn that.
Here’s a wild idea (and totally tongue-in-cheek). So that everyone can win, Barry convinces ABC to sell the remaining PD eps to NBC as part of the Fuller package–NBC wants Fuller, it has to buy the PD eps. Since NBC’s schedule sucks, they have nothing to lose, and they plop PD in the Friday slot after dumping Lipstick Jungle. ;-p
Crazy, yes, but not the stupidest idea anyone could come up with, and it has benefits for all parties…
Remember that ABC originally said “we’re not sure,” to Obama. Then they decided “ok we want the money!” At that point Obama’s people said “no.” They were resigned to airing PD. They had made a corporate decision to not air the show for 3 weeks! PD fans should rejoice that Obama said “no,” and PD had its best ratings (cough) for the season.
Hehehe,yeah,what if…
Anybody know if that Ausiello guy is usually reliable?
KellyH, that idea actually benefits nobody but PUSHING DAISIES fans. Why would NBC want a show as bad as it? NBC’s schedule might suck but it does better than PUSHING DAISIES.
Caio, Ausiello is usually very reliable. What in particular are you referring to?
I just wanted to know,because he said that the rumors re PD being cancelled were false,in the blog he posted on the 7th this month.Yes,before you tell me,I know things are still looking bad for the show,if not worse by the minute.
Thank you mr Gorman.
So now we know Lost displaces PP which likely does go after GA. How about putting BS after LOST and DSM after DH.
I just do not see then taking down PD, ES and DSM.. LG definately is not pulling numbers. It did better on WED@10 alot better.
PP is untested had a huge lead in last week and moving it could hurt but moving after GA would be great for PP. ABC should give DSM a shot behind DH.
The only shows I think should be cancelled actually got full season orders.
DSM should get the nod over ES, but hopefully ABC keeps both.
Berlanti is a star at ABC and should be given a few months to make up for the WGA action that has caused a dramatic drop in this years viewership. While this list is entertaining it has already picked shows to be cancelled that were picked up.
The Gorman Blog ignores too much and it could go 0-6. You guys keep talking bout PD being cancelled yet ABC responds ” no official announcement”. ABC is specific, has strict rules about posting inside info about any show. Keep your chins up PD fans, last Friday I point blank walked into ABC HQ and asked “Hey PD is GONE”? “A couple websites are saying it is cancelled” “Officially cancelled”, boy did I feel STOOOOOOOOPID. “We have not heard anything about PD being cancelled” “Thats news to me”, “where did you here this?”
Thanks for the list. We all have opinions, reporting a show cancellation prior to it being dissemenated to the public by an official source. oy vey
caio, sorry Ausiello was both right and wrong. Yes, they made a decision to cancel and are talking terms with PD. Since terms haven’t been reached “nothing final,” is true.
Dirtysexyj, didn’t you say that DSM got an order for more scripts too? Now you claim ABC has strict rules about posting inside info. Nobody I know in this industry would use the terms “ABC HQ,” which pretty much makes you a liar.
PD is in its death woes right now. There isn’t much that can be done to save it. However I know Barry is trying. While Bryan went and made another deal. That says a lot.
Nick be careful making liblelous comments. I did not mention a specific office at Disney for NUMEROUS REASONS.
I did exactly what I posted.
Hey man you wanna tred the line as I do , thats up 2 you. I am certain I will be called in , if I have posted anything here that could hurt my employer
dirtysexyj, I’m saying you contradict yourself. You claim that DSM had more scripts ordered and then say ABC has strict rules against what you did.
If I walked into Anne’s office and said “Hey PD is GONE?” She’d never reply “We haven’t heard anything like that.” First she wouldn’t use the term “we,” but would instead say something like “I’m still working out the details about the future of show.” If you want to you can replace Anne with Steve. However Steve would say “I haven’t been given the final details yet.”
Your entire verbage screams “I’m making this up.” If you really walked into the offices there, they wouldn’t use the terms you claim as quotes.
If you weren’t walking into Anne or Steve’s offices then your information is useless anyway.
My scenario was meant as a facetious fantasy, Nick, but my thoughts were that if Sonnenfeld’s negotiations with ABC were holding up Fuller from joining Heroes, Sonnenfeld could hold the PD eps up as part of a “deal” to get Fuller on the Heroes team right away rather than holding him up at ABC until January.
PD would certainly do better on Friday than LJ did. Probably about the same as Life. NBC’s ratings standards are much lower than ABC’s, as has been well established. Not that I ever think such a thing would actually happen, but it was just a wild scenario.
It has been downplayed, but I have no doubt that ABC wouldn’t hesitate at the chance to screw with NBC by holding Fuller up as long as they can. Even if Heroes is beyond help, why not let it plunge even further into the toilet if it benefits Samantha Who?
Nick, while I think for the most part you know what you’re talking about, you seem to be trying way too hard to prove that you DO know what you are talking about. Which is making you sound less reliable. Just pointing that out.
I shouldn’t have posted so soon.
Nick, my advice to you is the post whatever info you have/can post, and if people want to believe you they will, and if not, let them come up with reasons why you are lying. Don’t try to defend yourself. It’s the internet. People will call you a liar no matter what.
Nick, what does this sentence mean?
Why would NBC want a show as bad as it? NBC’s schedule might suck but it does better than PUSHING DAISIES.
By “bad” you surely mean ratings, not quality? If NBC cared about quality, Knight Rider would have never been given a full season–Ditto Kath and Kim.
:-0
There isn’t much that can be done to save it.
Well, ABC could have tried a different timeslot at least once. Isn’t that what Barry is trying to do? They should try it Sunday at 8:00 just to see. It’s not like DH’s numbers depend at all on its lead-in, so there’s nothing to lose. EM:HE isn’t what it used to be.
Oh, and Nick, I agree with Julia. There’s too much evidence to call you a liar, so I believe you. And I understand why you can’t be specific about your sources.
Do I wish you were a tad less snarky? Probably, but given the responses, I can even see why you take that tone. If people are taking offense to you it’s probably to your tone, not to your information per se.
I wonder if Kristin saw your post on her article where she frantically and desperately denied your assertion. Her minions certainly didn’t bother to respond to it.
I like honesty. PD fans should be glad they are not getting blindsided and really shouldn’t shoot the messenger.
Nick , I did not go all the way to the Tippity Top.
Your correct I did contradict myself telling you not to post inside info then posting what could be inside info.
I did not LIE and I am not a Liar.
Officially PD has not been cancelled, until it is I suggest you reel in some of your comments and use terms like “I THINK YOU ARE A LIAR” or ” I THINK PD IS CANCELLED”
Hey Nick called me a Liar, nobody called Nick a liar..
I simply was trying to warn a brother he may get into trouble posting inside info prior to public release. I already faced the music.
I Love Anne and Steve and respect the difficult choices they make.
We are doing the best we can cost cutting etc.. I think DSM is a keeper. Retention is better than ES , BS or LOM. The Women demo’s are strong, and the ratings steady
You posted inside info? When did this happen? And is it really considered inside info if the info is, you know, not actually correct?
“Chuck” will get a third season. Mark my words. It is one of Ben Silverman’s favorite shows. He bends over backwards for it, and next year, he’s bending to the point of possible spinal cord damage. Considering it is a) inherited, b) not owned by the network, and c) owned by the same people who bring you “Pushing Daisies”, Josh Schwartz must be the happiest man in the world. Well, other than the fact that his two shows air opposite each other…
What won’t get third seasons? Everything listed in the title of this article.
Riff, Ben Silverman may not be around to make the decisions for next season. So if he’s the only thing saving it, you’d better start praying.
EM:HE isn’t what it used to be???????
well, after DWTS is the best one having good ratings. it’s even beating the tired Survivor.
Ha ha. Well… yes. Ben Silverman probably will get cancelled before “Chuck” does. But until then…
Somebody from GE would have to do that cancellation, mind you. It’s certainly not going to be Jeff Zucker who does it. That would be tantamount to admitting wrongness. And Jeff would never do that.
Now, who can we talk to about getting Jeff cancelled?
Nick C
Thanks for the input.I really appreciate not being blindsided like KellyH said,But I will agree with what she and Julia said about your tone.Even because if your info is correct;those of us who gave you grief are the ones who will have to work on extracting our feet from our mouths.
Just one question though,maybe somebody already covered this here,but the list´s too long for meto sacn it for one single answer:why would it be better for ABC to cancel PD instad of changing its time slot?That´s usually the M.O.,right?Or am I totally triping?
Thanks.
Oh,and one more thing,anyone with experience in the industry feel free to respond:about “Lost” going to wed at 9p.m.I´ve seen this fact referred to as both a good and bad omen for PD.Which one is it?
Caio, there’s no such thing as a good omen for PD at this point. I’m not sure why anyone would see the scheduling of Lost as a good one.
As for changing the time slot, sometimes that happens, but unless a show is moved to Friday to die, it’s not a regular occurrence.
god, i’m getting tired of arguing and arguing and proving points. we all rebutt each other anyway.
let’s just do this,or i am about to do this, why don’t we let the daisy pushers do their thing and wait for final announcements.
then maybe, just maybe we could talk.. again.
Thank you Julia.
Remember in this case that no news is bad news for PUSHING DAISIES. ABC isn’t even ordering new scripts (which isn’t an order to shoot them, just to give the staff WORK while they decide on the future). So far ELI STONE is the only show from the list that I’m aware of that definitely had more scripts ordered.
Thank you Nick C.
Rob or Bill asked me how I FRINGE did compared to I think HEROES in the C3 last time they were both on. HEROES had a 4.39 and FRINGE had a 4.25. That is in a week where they competed (albeit on different nights) with each other. If I’m supposed to be comparing to another show, I can check that too.
Well then why not put PD on Fridays to die, and just air the rest of the episodes? I dont care if its picked up or renewed, I just hate when things are pulled without seeing the end. They are already produced after all, and they told them to “wrap it up” with episode 13 so at least there would be some kind of finality. By the way, with all these insiders running around this site, can any of you people get me a job cause I keep applying!
Great stats, as always, guys. There’s a reason I had to scroll down past 133 posts to say this. Best TV site on the Web.
PRIVATE PRACTICE AFTER GREY’S ANATOMY, LIFE ON MARS AFTER LOST
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/tel…f02e625959199f34fe70
Saw that coming a mile away, but I think this is a better link for the story:
http://www.thrfeed.com/2008/11/private-to-go-p.html
p.s. the story says Dirty Sexy Money has some hope, while Daisies and Eli Stone are longshots. Even at 1000-1 odds, I’m not sure I’d bet a dollar on Daisies…
Fuller really started fighting for PD today. He’s trying the whole “get the press on your side,” trick. Meanwhile ABC did tell advertising firms what their Spring Schedule was looking like. No PD or DSM on it. Just Eli Stone.
Eli Stone is the only one of the three that had future scripts ordered. If I was an exec I’d be for DSM out of the 3. However if I was the exec all three would be canceled.
A little late for getting the press on his side. He’s not entered Carol Barbee territory yet so far as I can see. Just based on the numbers, if I were responsible, I’d cancel all three too. I don’t know the inner politics at all, but with Greg Berlanti being the exec producer of both Eli Stone and DSM, perhaps he got a “pick one” choice. Whether that’s because ABC is particularly enamored with him or other reasons, I have no idea.
Weeks ago some commenter (I forget who) chimed in with something like “They’ll keep Eli Stone, ABC has to have at least one legal show and with Boston Legal on the way out, Eli Stone would be it.” It looks like that’s right. I’m guessing it’s near even money that the list from Futon Critic will pan out.
Bill, I know music post-Motown isn’t your thing so I won’t go all Meatloaf on you, but Google “baby we can talk all night” (with the quotes).
Robert, well he only has 3 more days to try. Thursday is the last day for PD. Knowing shows are coming to a production end and ABC having to get the schedules out to advertising firms I’d say that we should hear something official about the shows on your index.
From http://pushingdaisies-tv.com/:
Season 2 Done, work on Season 3 to start in May!
Just got word from my source on PD and it’s some pretty good news:
“So, we got some news this AM. Keep in mind, this could very well change. At any moment. But as of now, we are ‘going down for the season’. Which means that they are planning on starting us back in May for Season 3.
If you can, please let the fans know that they SHOULDN’T stop sending things to ABC. The more that people speak out, the better the chances of us returning. If it gets too quiet, they will pull the plug b/f we get a chance to start season 3. ABC is listening to everyone. And EVERYONE knows of your site.”
What that means is that Season 2 will only be 13 episodes. When Pushing Daisies ends production on the 13th episode of the season 2, they will be done until May, when they will start production on Season 3. While this is great news, we still need to let ABC know, now more than ever, that we can’t live without this show!
…sounds promising…
Like a fan site is a reliable source?
Last time they where reading last years pick up notice, and never checked the year, and had a party.
I’m sorry to say that it doesn’t make much sense that they’d cut off this season at 13 episodes and then go for a season 3.
I understand getting your hopes up, but it really hurts when they get shot down. So just be wary.
I actually tracked down the site where this idiot rumor started( the one re last year´s pick up) and set the record straight.Like ten days ago.
On another matter,does anyone know where I have to go to check out ABC´s press releases?I only found stuff re November on abcmedianet.com.
Thanks
Well in one way that rumor is true. They were told that this season is over.
Caio, abcmedianet.com is where I check for ABC press releases, but really interesting information always seems to be out *before* the official release.
The ABC schedule leak was 100% fiction.
even a broken watch is correct twice per day.
Lots of info coming out. I am feeling better about DSM and the chances for a back 9.
Eli Stone simply does not sell well to advertisers and no ABC does not NEED a legal show
BS DH DSM sundays!!! A Brothers and sisters DH and DSM Sunday night would ROCK CBS at the core WOOOHOOO GO ABC
dirtysexyj, that leak was 100% real. ABC sent schedules out to major advertising firms and made it clear that the schedule wasn’t “final.”
ABC has no plans at all to move Extreme Makeover: Home Edition from Sunday night.
Will DSM or Eli Stone get canceled? Last I heard it could go either way. One thing we do know is that ABC did not order more scripts for DSM, but they did for Eli Stone. Despite your claim otherwise.
Assuming there truly is a battle and only one of these shows is kept (as opposed to both of them being cut, which surely still must be a possibility) in DSM’s favor — it didn’t have to air tonight, and Eli did air last night lowering its season average a little more still. Working against DSM: if it was really a “pick one” deal for Berlanti, it seems like Eli Stone is more his baby (writing credits for Eli, but just EP credit for DSM).
i am a daisies fan and hope for the best but that idea of shutting down now and than coming back in may for season 3 is pretty damn ridiculous. I would find it easier to believe that they would come back in May and shoot a few episodes a a straight to dvd kind of wrap up that the company can milk for money but to stop now and pick up again for a season that just doesn’t happen.
Hey! what about Lipstick Jungle?!!! There is not one person that I know of that doesnt just love this show! We all arrange our eve.s around Wed. nite & now Fri.s if we cant see it we tivo it! It is absolutely the best show that we have seen in years! there is a positively an excellent story line, not to mention the glam & excellent acting of some of the top people in the acting world people…we are all just dumbfounded about this terrific show being cancelled! They are crazy to do this…Desperate Housewives have nothing on this show!