Fox announced its winter schedule and Joss Whedon’s Dollhouse will air on Fridays beginning February 13, 2008 at 9pm. Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles will serve as its lead in.
Bones will air Thursdays at 8pm, followed by Kitchen Nightmares for a couple of weeks, and then a much earlier in the year Hell’s Kitchen starting January 29 at 9pm. Great, toss Gordon Ramsay to the wolves. Thursdays’ demo numbers will be interesting.
The Fox game show Friday lineup will air for a month or so from January 16 until February 13 when Dollhouse/TSCC begins. I know “people will watch broadcast TV on Fridays if you offer good programming”, but I think Dollhouse will be competing against Battlestar Galactica for a while. Good catch by Zac in the comments, BSG airs at 10pm!
I still don’t anticipate good numbers for these shows on Fridays, and it looks like Fox didn’t think enough of Dollhouse to air it after American Idol (which will still be on Tuesdays and Wednesdays). Zap2its Dan Fienberg’s theory is that they were too worried about 24 to use Dollhouse as its lead-in and wouldn’t have been as able to be patient with it if it failed there.
Hole in the Wall is not dead yet. It will air Sundays from 7p-8p starting January 18.
Prison Break Status (via Variety): Conspicuously absent from Fox’s midseason sked is laffer “ ’Til Death,” which was benched from the Wednesday 9 p.m. berth earlier this month. Fox said it would return later in the season. “Prison Break” will also be back later in the season after its skedded winter hiatus.
These schedules are prone to change early and often. James Hibberd has the full schedule on the Live Feed.
That’s great logic FOX, Hole in the Wall is your worst show and you give it a good timeslot. And you wonder why people jump on you for killing shows…
*ironically* Great! I suppose all those who said/were afraid that DH is doomed before even airing were spot on. BTW, today I stumbled across an article about Whedon’s explanation about the troubles with DH (about which he wrote about on his site, forgot the name). What he said was that once it was done the way he wanted to, Fox had a different picture in mind. So he had to pretty much re-write everything, though he implies that the core he wanted stayed put.
What I can’t comprehend is why even pitch to a network that is known to have screwed you so many times in the past. And even now, tend to show no respect.
I suppose this news was the last straw. Will see if DH survives even the first weeks…
Wow if they keep jerking around House, it may just die. For a really popular show, it should not be treated this way.
Also no mention of Prison Break, so I would assume the back 9 episodes are going to air over the summer? Or did they only pick up 13?
Also, no mention of when the new animation shows (the Mitch Hurtwitz one and the Family Guy spinoff) will air, though I think those were planned for March-April area and will run into the summer.
If Fox is going to keep Fringe at 9 on Tuesdays, then keep House at 8 on Mondays. Consistency helps, just ask CBS.
This is the “Bones,” effect. BONES did well enough on Wednesday Nights (usually winning its time slot) to give their producers the edge to keep the show from airing on Fridays. I knew Terminator was going to Friday Night, but I’m surprised they moved DOLLHOUSE to Friday. The DOLLHOUSE/24 combo would have been good. Now it’s a HOUSE/24 combo.
The real surprise is LIE TO ME. Which is getting a big Idol jumpstart….
Then again if I were the producers of BONES I’d rather be on Friday Night against Ghost Whisperer than against the Thursday Night competition.
I’m not convinced this will be the Spring Lineup. I think it’s still far enough away that more shake ups can happen.
Alde, Joss didn’t pitch DOLL HOUSE. DOLL HOUSE was pitched to him. It’s not his idea. They just brought him in as the show runner. There is a pretty big difference.
Fox’s scheduling moves for the winter look absolutely brilliant on paper. We’ll see how they plan out but it’s a very strategic schedule without any placements that will obviously backfire.
ughnn… Terminator as a lead-in still? I’m scared. =( How well is it gonna do in its new timeslot now?
Hole in the Wall, so cheap it can’t be killed! It’s television’s Undead!
Also, does this mean Terminator will be off the air for a few weeks in Jan-Feb?
Actually I’d be more worried about Dollhouse than Terminator. Brand new show has no viewership, so it’s going to rely on Terminator fans for the lead in. Terminator fans will actually watch the show though, as it’s Whedon. And if it’s good they will stay. I mean genre-wise it’s actually a good pairing, the day notwithstanding.
As for Terminator, I think with the numbers it has now (come on Robert, back me up!
)Terminator can go nowhere but up. As long as it’s not competing with any other show it’s demo watches, I think it will putter along at the worst with the same ratings it has now. Getting it away from Monday will help a lot though. Chuck, on NBC, is getting better and better with each episode, and I fully expect, after sweeps (which reviews coming in for the trio of episodes are STELLAR so far) and the Super Bowl promotions and the 3-D episode, that show is going to take off. Terminator would not fair well against that and Gossip Girl, etc.
FOX will probably let the season run out, as they seem to be getting some kind of deal from WB. If the numbers go up, or Lie to Me goes down, there might be a switch to another night. But then again didn’t Bones do well on Friday? And X-Files I think. Might find it’s niche there. And, to speculate even further, maybe that’s what FOX has in mind for Dollhouse – they let Whedon have more of his vision, but trade off a premiere day for a day that they’ll tolerate niche genre ratings.
u need new initials for doll house… DH is desperate housewives
how about DLH
Nick C…Joss thought up Dollhouse himself when out to lunch with Eliza. It was not pitched to him.
And Alde…Eliza had a contract with FOX. Joss thought up the show, Eliza was on board as was Joss – he couldn’t help himself. And they have new people at FOX now.
With that said, I had faith in FOX this time around, even with the suggested changes to Whedon, but they just completely lost it now. Friday is a kill zone basically. Unless they’re willing to deal with cruddy ratings? Regardless, this is crap.
Oooh… that makes sense Frank!
You’ve made me feel a lot better about this now. Thanks! I think you are right too. I think Terminator has a dedicated fanbase that is dedicated enough where it will at least be doing as well on Fridays as it is now on Mondays. And if we’re lucky, it might even do better.
Where’s The Moment of Truth?
Typical. Order a full season then kill it.
“Typical. Order a full season then kill it.”
That Answer Is………..True
(Cue the music cord)
Terminator/Dollhouse are dead!!! LOL its FRIDAY!!!
So you’re saying every show that is on Fridays automatically dies? Based on that logic, why even bother showing TV on that night then? Might as well just close down the stations, right?
Yeah, I was going to say that, Gina, but then I figured that “Nick C might know better”, as he seems to know entirely everything that’s going on *snicker*.
Unfortunately new people at Fox seem to take after old ones, if not otherwise then at least subconsciously, because as You so elegantly put, “it’s crap”
Robert/Bill, assuming that TSCC stays on Friday nights, what kind of ratings would it have to get to possibly reach a 3rd season?
Perhaps Fox believes that TSCC has a loyal fanbase and they will get a little over 5 millions vieweres no matter where they put it. They would get more at a better slot but if they can get 5 mil on Fridays may be they think that is good.
Wow, Nick C you are wrong again – do you even watch the shows you purport to know so much about?? Joss Whedon came up with the idea while discussing Eliza Dusku’s future plans. Eliza has an overall deal with Fox so it made sense for her to work with Joss – so that she either a) didn’t get stuck with some project they just added her to so as not to waste the million plus they spent on the overall deal or b) just got stuck doing nothing till her deal ran out. Thus, Dollhouse was born. I think this is definitely it for Dollhouse – it is has no chance on Friday and everyone (including Fox) knows this.
I read this site everyday, and read the posts. It seems Nick C seems to always have a response….and it seems it is always wrong?
Jordan, you bring up an excellent point. Nick C, weren’t you telling me that DH was absolutely staying on Mondays?
So has anyone figured out where Prison Break went? It’s not even on the schedule.
Huh, that’s a good point Frank. =O Wonder what happened to it…didn’t it get a full season order, or am I mistaken?
Rachel, you are coorect Prison Break did get a full season order and not only that when Fox tried to reduce the order the production company told FOX that they ordered 22 and they are getting 22. what they will do with it is anyone’s guess.
Wow. That’s interesting all right. If I were a Prison Break fan, I’d be really worried right now. I shouldn’t be worrying about TSCC’s new timeslot (which could very well prove to be even more beneficial in fact). At least it’s still gonna be on the air. But Prison Break… things aren’t looking good for it.
Chris, that is what I heard the same day I was told Terminator was moving to Fridays. Obviously something changed. I found out today it was LIE TO ME. That show scored incredibly well and FOX is convinced they have a huge hit. The producers of HOUSE refused a move to Thursday. The result is DOLLHOUSE being moved to Friday. It was that or Thursday and they feel that it has a better chance on Friday for success.
As for everyone who thinks I’m wrong about Joss and DOLLHOUSE…. I repeat Joss did not pitch to FOX. What happened was Eliza and FOX reached a deal for a show, and they brought in Joss. It was never Joss’s idea to pitch to FOX. Read what I wrote. There is a huge difference in pitching to a network and having them come to him. It was never his idea. Eliza convinced him to do it.
As I mentioned in another thread around here I don’t have the same insight into FOX as I do with other networks. Still, I was right about TERMINATOR on Friday. My PD information has never been proven inaccurate.
Rachel, I don’t see TSCC being renewed for a third season no matter what slot it airs in. My guess has always been that the Warner Brothers folks gave Fox financial incentives (discounts, big ad buys for Terminator movie) to keep it on the air this year. I’m not stating that as fact, merely speculation, but my opinion is it has no chance for a third season.
If it winds up pulling a 2.5 rating or above w/18-49 year olds, I might change my mind. I don’t believe the normal special dispensation/lower thrsholds for Friday shows will apply to either Terminator or Dollhouse, but that’s also pure speculation.
I understand. That’s my logical thinking, too. Just trying to hope for the best, haha…
Robert,
i know this is a big IF, but if TSCC improves to say 7 to 8 mill n around a 3 in the demo. Do see them renewing with those type of numbers?
Lie to Me after American Idol is a joke. It’s in essense FOX choosing (or trying to choose) a show they’d like to keep. Watch it shred half that leadin or more by its second or third airing. Kitchen Nightmares should be axed immediately and Hell’s Kitchen will be down significantly due to airing without American Idol and against some semblance of competition. I love how Hibberd didn’t even mention Prison Break, I mean the show’s been on 4 years and drops off the schedule, and that’s not even noteworthy? What great reporting!
Zap2its Daniel Fienberg speculates that Dollhouse was sent to Fridays not as its best chance for success, but its best chance not to fail quickly. It’s an interesting argument that ties into how competitive Mondays at 8pm are and how little tolerance Fox would have had with its lead in for 24 flailing:
http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2008/11/analysis-foxs-j.html
Nick C., I don’t understand at all how could think Joss didn’t pitch the show to FOX. I mean, seriously, I haven’t come across a single interview with him where the conception of the idea wasn’t mentioned. He was out for lunch with Eliza, went to the bathroom, and when he came back to sit down he was like ‘alright I’ve got our show.’
I could never see Joss taking on a show that wasn’t his own. Plus, we Whedon fans would not be as excited about Dollhouse if it hadn’t come from the wonderfully brilliant mind of Sir Whedon.
I think you need to get your facts straight.
On another note, I literally can’t believe they put Dollhouse on Fridays. I know there are people who are posting saying that just because it’s on Fridays doesn’t mean it will get cancelled. But if you look on The Futon Critic, you will see that Friday is literally the death slot. Only 15% of shows get renewed for a second season. And, get this, Fox hasn’t renewed a show that debuted on Friday in NINE YEARS.
I want to be hopeful, but, unfortunately, there isn’t much to hope for.
I have been thinking about that for the past few days Robert, because I was wondering why ABC doesn’t give a lead-in for Pushing Daisies. I realized it’s probably because if it didn’t sustain enough of the previous show’s audience, it would have probably already been cancelled. So maybe this Frday thing is a blessing in disguise, but I just can’t help but look at the statistics…
Vader, Lie to Me can shed more than half its lead-in as long as its lead-in is Idol and it still fares well in the demos. Any show Fox has other than House would lose more than half of the Idol lead in. Hell’s Kitchen has proved it can do fine in the demos even without Idol, but it has not proved it can do it at 9pm on Thursdays up against a heavy hitting slate of competition. I’m sure it will get hit hard.
My guess is that Hibberd didn’t mention Prison Break because it wasn’t there to mention, he was going for posting fast, wanted to get the schedule up and didn’t notice it because Fox didn’t include info like “PLEASE NOTE: There is no Prison Break!” and he probably doesn’t watch the show, so he didn’t notice at first glance. I’m sure he’ll get around to writing something about it.
I’d put the chances that the schedule changes at least once between now and when it starts at 100%!
Mandy, the 7 million to 8 million is probably irrelevant. But nearly a 3.0 in the demo would be very relevant. I don’t see it happening. last week no show on Friday had better than a 2.3.
BSG is on at 10:00, and Dollhouse is going to air at 9. They’re not competition.
Robert, do you see the Friday night line up as a aggresive move by Fox to steal a relatively weak night? As far as I know, their isn’t going to be much competiton in the male demos.
Zac…d’oh! Indeed. I’m still not brimming with optimism for Dollhouse, but I’ve updated the post, thanks.
That’s exactly what I meant when talking about Lie to Me, Robert. FOX obviously wants that show around next season and gave it an extremely comfy slot, and there’s no way it won’t be unless it goes down, down, down.
Vader, why wouldn’t they? a criminal procedural in the same ilk as House with potential for mainstream appeal versus…? TSCC? Prison Break? Dollhouse? That seems like a good call to me.
Too bad. The young demo they hope to attract to DLH (yeah DH is Desperate Housewives) and TSCC aren’t going to be at home watching tv on a Friday night. Only old people are home watching tv that night which is why the CBS procedurals do so well.
Re: PB– I used to love the 24-PB pairing from a couple years ago. I guess Fox is concerned since 24 hasn’t been on the air for a long time. But I don’t see why 24 can’t lead out into PB.
By that arguement, Robert, Lie to Me shouldn’t need the leadin if all the appeal is there. The leadin would be better spent on shows that haven’t found an audience. House was not a major hit until it started airing after American Idol, neither was 24. Even Bones owes some of its popularity to airing after it, and it really seems like none of FOX’s currently successful shows can say they didn’t become successful without help from a comfortable timeslot. This strategy has worked in the past, they should keep using it. I’d rather see Dollhouse or Terminator given a shot rather than left to die on Friday nights.
Given the current financial crisis — and it’s predicted to get worse in the coming months — a lot more people are going to be staying home on Friday nights to save money. TV viewership could go up across the board.
You’d rather see Dollhouse get the Idol lead in, I understand that, but that’s not logic, it’s a personal bias. I’m not sure what your logic is. House is more mainstream than many Fox shows, but as you point out even it needed a lead in once upon a time.
My opinion (and it’s only that) is that Lie to Me has the better mainstream prospects than Dollhouse and certainly TSCC (and I’m a fan of TSCC, but it’s never going to have mainstream appeal).
Just because Dollhouse isn’t mainstream doesn’t mean it couldn’t be a “hit”, I just like the prospects for Lie to Me better. Apparently so does Fox, but who knows which way the wind will blow between now and when the “final” winter schedule appears!
Tony, you all seem to have a problem understanding a concept. Joss didn’t think up a show and decide one day “Hey, I’ll pitch it to FOX!” He had lunch with Eliza, agreed to do the show. FOX and Eliza BOTH wanted Joss involved. This isn’t a show he just decided to pitch to FOX like others implied. The pitch was the opposite way. He got pitched to be involved with a show that was already contracted. Eliza and FOX were making a show.
The idea was not Joss’ idea. He didn’t wake up one day and go “I’m making Dollhouse,” and pitch it to FOX. The idea for DOLLHOUSE is his, but it fits in what FOX and Eliza wanted.
Also from my understanding FOX sent it to Friday to get its legs. I’ve heard that from a few people. They are thinking of airing it after BONES when IDOL isn’t on if it can find it’s narrative legs. They think Joss is just now figuring it all out. So they’re hoping it can build a base on Friday and expand upon it later. They are not sending it to Friday to die.
Robert, no doubt FOX is hoping LIE TO ME does extremely well. It picked up a lot of buzz recently and supposedly the pilot scored extremely well. FOX is comparing it internally to HOUSE, so we’ll see. It’s a unique take on the procedural. I’m guessing it will shine.
Okay, once again FOX screwed Joss Whedon over. First by screwing around with Firefly and now giving Dollhouse a friday night slot? Daamn. Give it a chance people! And also, Bones is doing just fine where it is. Why move it to Thursday where it has a tougher competition from CSI, and The Office!? Also I personally liked the House/Bones combo they had going on before. But yeah to sum up, FOX is stupid sometimes. (when it comes to fucking up my shows)
Prison Break will be back in March as is usual for it in non-strike situations..
it’s at the bottom of the press release Prison Break & Til Death will be back at a later date.
I think the schedule is great!
Everyday looks like it will be really strong in the demos.
Other networks should be really worried with a schedule like that.
Bones will do well in Thursday.
Survivor is not so strong now. Ugly Betty and My name is Earl/kath and Kim aren’t so tough to beat.
AUTHOR OF THIS NEWS: do you have ANY INFO about PRISON BREAK?
this is terrible news for terminator. what is the point of giving it a full season just to let it die on a friday night?
I just read an article on variety.com that says all this info, plus this part:
“Prison Break” will also be back later in the season after its skedded winter hiatus.
So it’s going to take its usual hiatus and then come back later on.
Bill, I just checked the newest Renew/Cancel table, and now it says that Prison Break won’t get a season five? I thought it was safe for another season only a few weeks ago according to the charts. Did something change?
I still don’t see PB getting the can so close to syndication……
As Seidman said, TSCC is pretty much cooked. The only reason they gave it a full season was Terminator 4 coming out in 6 months. I suppose it could have some kind of miracle recover, in the “Friday Night Hospice Zone”, but I doubt it. Maybe NBC should move HEROES to Fridays at 9pm?
I think SCC will die on Friday. The show shed viewers after its premiere and lost a ton more this season. I doubt changing to an unpopular night will help, and even if the numbers stay the same they’ll still stink. Why this show got picked up for the full season anyway doesn’t make much sense. I watch and mostly like it, but it is a real underperformer. Too bad Dollhouse won’t air after 24, or on Wed. Of course, maybe Fox doesn’t like what they’ve seen and don’t want to waste a decent timeslot on it. Bad sign!
Lisa:
X-Files survived on Friday nights for most of its run. Friday night is a popular scifi night because the competition on Friday is not as intense, and genre viewers tend to be more die-hard. But the fact that TSCC has become a “genre show” is probably why it’s doomed.
More interesting to me is the Dollhouse debacle. I mean, honestly. Someone explain to me why I should waste even a moment of my time watching a show that Fox obviously doesn’t believe in and which has gotten nothing but bad press since its conception. Someone’s head at Fox has got to roll for this… I also think it probably marks the end of Joss Whedon’s TV career.
coool, Bones won’t be competing against CSI and the Office. It’s airing at 8, so its competition will be Survivor and Ugly Betty. I think it’s a good move for Bones.
Can’t say I care much where they put Dollhouse, sorry! It suffers from the premature-buzz-backlash effect, IMHO. I heard too much about it, way too early on, to really care by now. On the positive side, though, perhaps the low-expectations of Fridays are a good thing for TSCC and Dollhouse? Maybe Fox is thinking that it’s a good night to get a niche-programming block lined up?
Dollhouse aside, I wonder if Fringe will pick up even better ratings/demos with AI as the lead-in? Or will it shed huge chunks of the AI viewers? My guess is we’ll see Fringe get a bump higher in ratings. I’ve been wrong before though.
I’d also say Fox is a bit worried about 24 – after being gone so long, will anyone still be interested? I suspect it gets the “House” lead-in as an attempt to save the show.
Julia re: Prison Break’s changed “status” in the R/C Index. It’s a pretty simplistic slice of the world. The World Series boosted Fox’s average 18-49 viewers from around ~3.29 million to 4.49 million. So PB stayed about the same, but the overall average rose.
FOX is correct to be worried about 24. The show has been off the air for so long even die hard fans I’ve recently talked to are lukewarm about starting up watching it again. Kind of surprised me. But they’ve moved on to other shows, have too much going on to re-invest in the weekly viewing that’s required. FOX is going to have to market the hell out of it.
I’m surprised no one’s mentioned the competition for Friday nights as of February: Battlestar Galactica comes back. Since the show will be in its final run, there’s a good chance it’ll do all right in the ratings. I feel sorry for Tahmoh Penikett who’s in both BSG AND Dollhouse. Competing against oneself is never fun.
Haven’t read all the comments, but the one thing about this that strikes me is that FOX is not moving Bones to Friday. AGAIN!
Robert, you seem to be living in a world where only procedurals do well. When watching LOST, I consider it to be about as mainstream as other serials and I’m quite shocked it’s gotten ratings and the following it has. Who knows if Dollhouse or Terminator would do well? Stranger things have happened. But apparently, we aren’t going to find out anytime soon.
Julia, are you really surprised? FOX does that every year, but will never move it because Bones is their second strongest show in the fall. To do so would be shooting themselves in the leg and refusing medical aid.
BSG and DLH won’t air simultaniously. Thank god for that.
That being said, I’m really getting sick and tired by all the biased comments about Whedon. DLH hasn’t even aired yet, for god’s sake. And people are already thumbing it down. Until now, Whedon has been one of the best storytellers in television, albeit always seem to lacking the respect he rightfully deserves. I see no reason for that to change, regardless what an averange american couch potato might think.
FrankJ: We’ll know how well 24 will come back in January by how its 2 hour thingamajig does later this month. If it gets huge ratings, it’ll drive interest. If not, I fear. Supposedly, they are rebooting 24 in a pretty significant way this year, and a strong November show followed by buzz might bring back viewers who got tired of the bad writing that plagued the past few seasons.
Pairing House with 24 is a mistake.
Anyone who watches 24 knows one thing– it’s completely addictive. It’s a serial where every episode ends on a cliff hanger. Once you get hooked by the first two or three episodes, it’s pretty much self-sustaining from there.
Therefore, its lead-in is completely negligible. There are no ‘casual’ viewers of 24 who might just decide to catch an odd episode after House one day. If you don’t watch it from the beginning, and watch it consistently, the show doesn’t make any sense. Fox should set 24 after AI to get some eyeballs on it, then for its third episode move it to another night as the lead-out/lead-in for PB and maybe Bones. My take anyway.
“DLH hasn’t even aired yet, for god’s sake. And people are already thumbing it down.”
Eh, I think it balances out. Whedon fans are giving it just as much of a thumbs up, without having seen it.
Maybe it will be like Firefly after Buffy. Or maybe it will be like Studio 60 after West Wing. It’s tough to tell.
Maybe DLH and TSCC will do well enough on Fri night to satisfy Fox. I don’t know, but at some point people at the networks have to put stuff on that night that people will want to see. Granted, most things hit rock bottom, but someone has to start taking a chance.
The X-Files doing well on Fri night was many years ago, but I don’t think the numbers were excellent in its first year. It tended to build its audience as the years went along, and that was a genre specific show also.
I guess we’ll find out what happens in Feb. I’m very curious to see what DLH is really like since everyone is assuming that it is going to get canned very quickly. I have to wonder if the show is really going to be that dreadful.
“Alde, Joss didn’t pitch DOLL HOUSE. DOLL HOUSE was pitched to him. It’s not his idea. They just brought him in as the show runner. There is a pretty big difference.”
Do you know what you are talking about?
Eliza wanted a series, but the concept, the idea was pitched by Joss.
If my understanding of what networks & advertisers are looking for is correct, whereas the total viewer count does weight heavily, it is whether or not ratings for new shows in a time slot improve upon the previous occupant…especially amongst the key demos. I see the move as Fox’s attempt to take on CBS’ dominance of Friday Nights. I think both shows have strong appeal to both of the key demos. My only real worry is the 18-34 year olds are going to DVR TSCC & DLH to watch later.
Friday nights are going to get interesting again. With TSCC, DLH, & BSG all on in one night, my DVR is probably going to blow a fan belt come end of February.
Ricardo, learn to comprehend. Joss didn’t pitch DOLL HOUSE. Eliza didn’t “want a series,” she had SIGNED a series with FOX. FOX and ELIZA pitched to Joss. They had basic ideas of what they wanted and Joss turned that into DOLL HOUSE. It’s 100% different than Joss deciding “Hey I have a TV show, FOX did so well with Firefly I’ll pitch to them!”
FOX and ELIZA made deal. ELIZA convinced Joss to be the show runner. At that point it’s a done deal except for the scripts. Of course FOX had to accept the scripts, but this wasn’t your normal show conception. FOX had an idea of what they wanted, and Joss delivered DOLL HOUSE to them. I’ve never said that DOLL HOUSE wasn’t his “creation,” I stated it wasn’t his idea all around.
Hey Nick C, here’s a quote from joss Whedon himself:
“I came up with [the concept] at lunch completely spontaneously, based on my conversation with Eliza,” he insists. “It wasn’t [an idea] that I was nurturing or that I tailored or I tried to retro-fit to her.”
Here is a link for you:
http://www.tvguide.com/news/Eliza-Dushku-Lures-8220.aspx
OMG! Crazy FOX!
The best was:
Monday, Jan. 12:
8:00 PM AMERICAN IDOL (SEASON PREMIERE)
9:00 PM 24 (Season Premiere, P2)
Mondays, beginning Jan. 19:
8:00 PM AMERICAN IDOL
9:00 PM DOLLHOUSE >> NEXT WEEK: LIE TO ME
****************************
TUESDAY
Tuesday, Jan. 13:
8:00 PM AMERICAN IDOL
9:00 PM FRINGE (RECAP SHOW)
Tuesdays, beginning Jan. 20:
8:00 PM AMERICAN IDOL
9:00 PM FRINGE
****************************
WEDNESDAY
Wednesday, Jan. 14:
8:00 AMERICAN IDOL
9:00 HOUSE
Wednesdays
8:00 AMERICAN IDOL
9:00 HOUSE
***************************
Thursdays, beginning Jan. 15:
8:00 PM BONES (Time Period Premiere)
9:00 PM KITCHEN NIGHTMARES
Thursdays, beginning Jan. 29:
8:00 PM BONES
9:00 PM HELL’S KITCHEN (Season Premiere)
***************************
FRIDAY
Fridays, beginning Feb. 13:
8:00 PM TERMINATOR: THE SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES
9:00 PM DOLLHOUSE
***************************
SUNDAY
Sunday, Jan. 11:
8:00-10:00 PM 24
Sundays, beginning Jan. 18:
7:00 PM KING OF THE HILL
7:30 PM AMERICAN DAD
8:00 PM THE SIMPSONS
8:30 PM FAMILY GUY
9:00 PM 24
ljo, learn to READ. “BASED ON MY CONVERSATION WITH ELIZA.” Now correct me in how anything I’ve posted on here has been wrong. I stated the idea for the show was not his. It was Eliza and FOX’s idea for a show. The concept of the show came from him based on ideas from ELIZA and FOX. Eliza and FOX went after Joss, not the other way around. There is a huge difference. It was never his idea to make a new show and pitch to FOX. It was ELIZA and FOX’s idea to pitch Joss and get him to make a show based on ideas of Eliza and FOX. The concept was Joss’ idea. The idea for doing a show, etc. was not. How hard is it for you people to understand even after using a Joss quote that states EXACTLY WHAT I’VE SAID.
All these cry babies stating that Joss should know better about dealing with FOX. “How could he have taken another show to FOX!” It’s just all wrong. They went to him! Since the basic idea of what the wanted was FOX’s idea, they helped craft the show with Joss. Joss has mentioned this in interviews. Get over it.
What really gets to me is how Fox favors some shows and doesn’t seem to care about others. Fringe for example started out with weak numbers, way below expected, then suddenly they give it the HOUSE lead-in slot and it goes up. TSCC has an initial debut number double what Fringe had and gets cut short for the strike and then given one of the worst timeslots possible with Mondays. Finally now, worse again, it’s moving to Friday. Fringe on the other hand will again get a major boost and get the Idol lead-in for the new year. I know nothing is fair in TV land but seems like they want Fringe to live pretty bad. Personally I have no idea why.
I’ve got to believe that the “What show goes where” discussions/decisions within networks have got to be brutal. Lots of money involved, lots of egos, potential success or failure just from that choice. And all those producers are people that you have business deals with that you want to keep happy.
AC, Fringe is a top 20 C3 show. That is why.
I don’t know where you get the whole “suddenly they give it the HOUSE lead-in slot,” when it was always there. I also don’t know about this “weak numbers,” stuff either. It started off rather strong. It’s one of their top 3 shows of the Winter.
Terminator has always been a Monday Show has it not? It also wasn’t cut short from the Strike. It was AFTER THE STRIKE. It was however cut short with some episodes moved to season 2. I’m also not sure about the “double the number Fringe had,” nonsense either. I seriously doubt TERMINATOR ever had 20 million viewers.
TERMINATOR did better last Spring because it wasn’t up against the NFL or Chuck. Both of those shows share some of the same targeted demo.
Friday Night could be a good night for TERMINATOR with less competition, just a “bad night,” but it’s not really a bad night if people watch.
Bill, no doubt and the fights sometimes get so serious that relationships are destroyed. The producer behind “How I Met Your Mother,” and “That 70s Show,” just had a new show with Alysa Milano “Single with Parents,” that they fought vigorously with ABC over time slots. The result? ABC just said “We’re canceling your show,” without ever airing it!
Nick, Terminator did have 19 million for its premiere which was on a Sunday with an NFL playoff game as its lead-in. It moved to Mondays the next night:
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/03/29/nielsen-ratings-for-terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles/3115
Robert, right but it was always a “Monday Night Show,” with a new episode the very next night. How did it do there again? Kind of strong with 10M if memory serves.
Comparing that to Fringe which had like 9M viewers for it’s non-NFL lead in 90 minute Tuesday Night premiere, and then what 13M the next week in its normal slot?
AC acts like TERMINATOR was always a Sunday Night Show, and that FRINGE did poorly for a long time until it was moved to Tuesday after HOUSE, when both statements are far from true. TERMINATOR had the NFL lead in combined with the TERMINATOR franchise. TERMINATOR was a popular IP, and the real story about the show was the 2nd show and how many viewers tuned in vs. an unknown IP and its 90 minute premiere with no lead in.
Nick C, I agree that Fox and Eliza had an agreement to do a show but not this show until Joss came up with the concept. Yes, Eliza “inspired” him but did not create the show. Have a listen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqQ1Z_WcRgc
“I have to wonder if the show is really going to be that dreadful.”
You guys have to understand that ratings don’t reflect the good’n'bad scale in any way a reasonable, intelligent person could think. Ratings reflect what MASS wants to see. There are only a handful of shows where quality and quantity overlap. It’s inconsiderate to suggest that it will be dreadful, because ratings will most likely suck. Seriously.
“Eh, I think it balances out. Whedon fans are giving it just as much of a thumbs up, without having seen it.”
Sure, you can say that. Personally I’m unsure to think because allegedly Whedon had to re-write quite a bit because Fox didn’t like the tone. And I don’t think I’ll like the tone that Fox likes. But based on the past experiences, I’m willing to take my chances either way. That being said, I’m not as blindfolded as most of the people who come here to write that
it will suck “because it’s Whedon”.
If anything, it will suck because it’s Whedon and *again on Fox*.
ljo, do you have reading comprehension issues? I stated the IDEA for a show was not his. I stated the concept of the show was his. I’ve never stated otherwise. Learn to understand what people are saying. It doesn’t change the fact that there are idiots on here saying “Why did Joss take a show to FOX?” When it wasn’t that at all. He never pitched them a show.
“Alde, Joss didn’t pitch DOLL HOUSE. DOLL HOUSE was pitched to him. It’s not his idea. They just brought him in as the show runner. There is a pretty big difference.”
I’m merely responding to the above statement posted by you earlier in this thread. Doll House was never pitched to Joss. It is his concept. But, you are absolutely correct that Joss was not the one to reach out to Fox to do a show.
ljo, and there are no inaccuracies in my statement. Joss didn’t pitch DOLL HOUSE. DOLL HOUSE was pitched to him. It’s not his idea. They just brought him in as show runner. He then came up with a concept they all agreed upon after TWEAKING by FOX and Eliza. Alde made the statement “What I can’t comprehend is why even pitch to a network that is known to have screwed you so many times in the past. And even now, tend to show no respect.” Alde was wrong. Joss never pitched to FOX. He was brought in with basic ideas in place, and he came up with the concept. Then wrote scripts and rewrote scripts based on input.
Nothing about my response to Alde was inaccurate. It just wasn’t fleshed out because I wrote it quickly. I didn’t realize a bunch of people would jump on my words and consider them an attack on Joss.
I could go further and mention that Joss’s original “hit,” was reworked by the WB before it was “adequate,” for a midseason pickup. It’s the way of the business. Yet there are people acting like he’s being treated poorly. It makes no sense.
Big Daddy said: “I still don’t see PB getting the can so close to syndication….”
There is no profitable syndication for heavily serialized programs. 24 has done poorly in syndication. PB and similar programs must depend on DVD profits, international sales, and lucrative young male demos.
You do understand what the term “concept” means, right? Common sense says that you do, otherwise you wouldn’t have used it. Hence, main phrase here is “vision”. It is irrelevant if Eliza had a deal for a show with Fox or not. The very rough idea for the show stemmed from Whedon’s sit-together with Eliza. They were talking about her. Whedon has told that numerous times. Then he went to bathroom and once he returned he had the CONCEPT
for the show. Maybe you’re misunderstanding the term “visionary”, but I don’t know how else to call it. Even if Eliza mentioned her deal with Fox, likely that she did, it’s nothing more than a simple deal. Yeah, they brought Whedon in as a showrunner. But you make it sound like it was just some random project he was pushed into. It was not. It was his creation.
You really should stop the semantics. It was funny at first but the spark faded many posts ago.
Alde, what is funny is that you fans think you know what happened. FOX and Eliza reached a deal. They came up with some ideas of what direction they wanted to go. Eliza said “How about Joss?” and FOX loved the idea. So Eliza set up lunch with Joss and went after him. Eliza laid down the ideas. Joss goes to the bathroom realizes how the idea could work and comes up with a concept based on the ideas of Eliza and FOX. He agrees to do the show.
You on the other hand stated “What I can’t comprehend is why even pitch to a network that is known to have screwed you so many times in the past. And even now, tend to show no respect.” This isn’t Joss pitching to a network. This was a network hiring Joss.
It’s like all things in Hollywood. A deal gets made and then they attach people to it. Joss was attached to a project. Joss didn’t pitch a show to FOX. Do you really think FOX is the place Joss would go with a new TV idea? Yet that is what you wrote.
You Whedon fans are nuts.
Joss writes how his DOLL HOUSE inner dealings with FOX “helped,” the show and he sees that now. He writes how this isn’t different than any other project he has had.
Yet Alde you write how they show him “no respect.” Yet they hired him to come up with the show! That was THEIR idea! I don’t know how you can get more respectful than that. You don’t seem to care that Joss doesn’t feel disrespected or screwed with. You’re convinced he is! Why? Because his original pilot won’t be shot?
You give Whedon fans a bad name. You’re also the reason for the “bad publicity,” because you fans are spinning things that you shouldn’t be spinning.
Nick C,
The point of my post about Terminator and Fringe was that Fringe has been given 2 excellent time slots (HOUSE & AI in 2009) and Terminator has been given 2 bad timeslots (monday & friday in 2009). I just wonder why one show gets so much love and another one doesn’t. That was all I meant.
Alde, you are right and I give up arguing with anyone (Nick C) who can make statements like the following:
“Eliza laid down the ideas. Joss goes to the bathroom realizes how the idea could work and comes up with a concept based on the ideas of Eliza and FOX.”
Any thesaurus will tell you that concept and idea are the same thing. If Nick C is so sure he is right perhaps he could post a link to any release from Fox or statement by Eliza that says they had the “basic ideas” before talking to Joss.
AC, Terminator is just now getting the Friday slot. It has retained its Monday slot since it debuted (minus the premiere the night before). Fringe has better numbers and makes more money for FOX. That is the reason. Simple business.
Moving to Friday is not as bad as people are making it out as. There is literally no competition on Friday but CBS. Moving FOX into 2nd place on Fridays would keep TERMINATOR and DOLLHOUSE around.
ljo, Joss has stated it himself “I came up with [the concept] at lunch completely spontaneously, based on my conversation with Eliza,” so there you have it.
I can’t believe you Whedon fans are such die hard zealots. This is basic Hollywood here. Studio reaches deal with star for vehicle. Star or Studio then hire talent to support vehicle. In this case FOX reached a deal with Eliza. Then they hired Whedon. Yes the CONCEPT of DH is Joss. It is however based on ideas from FOX and Eliza and Joss himself has stated it. Read what he stated. If Eliza and FOX didn’t have any ideas he wouldn’t have stated “based on my conversation with Eliza.”
Seriously you Whedon fans are acting like complete fools here. This is a basic hollywood deal. Whedon is not being mistreated. It’s airing on Friday. FOX is hoping that it can pick up a decent base for later in Fall 2009 when the move the show to Wednesday Nights. FOX isn’t sending the show there to die.
Ljo, Nick is what I’d call a “couch illusionist”. If you care to track his posts across several threads, he is always using general information that is backed up with general vocabulary. I won’t give any examples as this same very thread backs this trend. Anyone with enough interest for TV and basic knowledge of how things *might* work inside the television industry can write pages and pages long provided they have enough imagination to come through clean. Hence the term I used above.
Alde, say whatever you want about me, but at least I’m not a Whedonite.
Alde, and how did I use general vocabulary to state that Bryan Fuller was first told to rewrite the 13th episode of PD? Then it was reported by the media later. Then I said he’d be returning to HEROES before anyone else spoke of it in the media.
You’re right that’s just “general,” and I have no idea what I’m talking about.
Also I “generally,” stated that TERMINATOR was most definitely moving to Friday Nights.
Good news for DOLLHOUSE, I’m hearing the premiere may be moved from the 13th to after AMERICAN IDOL for that week. I assume that means an episode would still air on the 13th.
Guys, I really believe Nick knows what he’s talking about. Sure he may have been off on a few things, but that’s cause networks can change things at the last minute.
“Moving to Friday is not as bad as people are making it out as. There is literally no competition on Friday but CBS. Moving FOX into 2nd place on Fridays would keep TERMINATOR and DOLLHOUSE around.”
Yay! I hope so!
Alde, you might find this interesting:
Describing their initial meetings with Whedon, Fox President of Entertainment Kevin Reilly and Gary Newman, chairman of 20th Century Fox Television, used terms not often heard from powerful executives regarding pitches.
“He had me at ‘hello,’ ” Reilly said, admitting that the first time Whedon visited the network, “I was kinda drunk with the surprise of it all. He laid out the whole concept, but I think it was one of those things where I heard every other word of it.”
“I don’t quite know what to liken it to,” Newman said. “He pitches as if he’s thinking of it for the first time. There’s an extemporaneous nature to it, which keeps you kind of riveted. You have to listen really carefully because the wicked and clever asides are nonstop.”
Here’s the link if you’re interested.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/may/15/entertainment/et-jossweb15
ljo, are you going to spend all day to try and prove me wrong? Keep trying. Facts are simple for this one: FOX made deal with Eliza. FOX & Eliza agreed Joss would be perfect. Eliza has lunch with Joss hoping to get him on board.
It happened. They did love the concept. They also exchanged ideas.
Keep trying though if it makes you so happy. I should just text Joss and ask him to post on here and tell you guys to leave it alone.
“I’m also not sure about the “double the number Fringe had,” nonsense either. I seriously doubt TERMINATOR ever had 20 million viewers.”
AHAHAHAHAHA – so Nick C you’re right about Dollhouse – yet you got this completely wrong – and by completely wrong I mean you can’t weevil your way out by saying you meant Monday night airings – because what you did say was you seriously doubt TERMINATOR ever had 20 million viewers.
Seriously – other people provide actual links to information and you still try to argue that you’re right. Further, you don’t understand anything about the pitching process. Lost was initially devised by an ABC exec when he said wouldn’t a Gilligan’s Island remake be good – in the end it morphed into Lost but not after ditching the initial show creator and most of his ideas.
Joss would still have “pitched” his version (if indeed what you say regarding FOX is true given that you have absolutely no evidence whatsoever to back it up) of whatever the FOX execs had initially come up with – so saying he never pitched the show (or at least his version) is just plain wrong.
Great article indeed. Though returning here to post how I found it is definitely topped by recent posts. Nothing beats reading about delusions of grandure while having a beer.
Yeah, Terminator had nearly 20 mil on it’s premier. It is pretty odd that Nick didn’t even know that. *shrug*
Oops, before someone gets on me for grammar, I meant “its” not “it’s” haha.
Hey, Nick C, were you a Moonlight fan?
Raymond, did TERMINATOR have 18.3M viewers. One night it did. What was its best night after that? 10M? I am surprised the number was that high. I doubted, and was wrong. It still doesn’t change the point that FRINGE has out done TERMINATOR on FOX with the exception of one night. Still I think TERMINATOR could do ok on Friday.
You seem to have a problem with the words I use. “Pitch,” was meant that he didn’t “pitch a unique property to FOX that was entirely his idea that he crafted for the purpose to pitch to networks.” FOX and Eliza went to him. Joss has mentioned Eliza going to him umpteen times. Joss has mentioned this. Lets move on, you guys are arguing about something that doesn’t even matter, yet you think it does. Lets try and clear this up once and for all:
FOX wanted a show with Eliza. FOX contracted a show with Eliza. They had an idea for a genre show. Eliza wanted Joss. FOX thought it would work. Eliza met with Joss. Joss came up with DOLL HOUSE.
Alde is trying to twist things, but this whole argument comes from his statement ” What I can’t comprehend is why even pitch to a network that is known to have screwed you so many times in the past. And even now, tend to show no respect. ”
Alde was entirely wrong about it. The circumstances were different.
You guys can argue about details all you want. The fact is Eliza went to that Lunch to get Joss on her show.
Rachel, I’ve mentioned I don’t have knowledge about all things at every network. Who does?
Noah, you mean the Angel ripoff show that was canceled because its numbers weren’t as good as a rerun of NCIS? No.
Nick C you are wrong about Terminator not getting cut short due to the strike. The show was in the middle of production when the stike came. The writers had 4 more episodes(10-13) that needed to be written. Also, They never carried over any of the episodes from season one to season two. They only had written and shot up to episode 9. As soon as Fox brought them back for season 2, the writers started working on brand new season 2 scripts. They were never any scripts or episodes to carry over from season 1.
Corey, that makes sense. I just remembered it aired when no one else really had new episodes to go up against it. I was incorrectly under the assumption that episodes 10-13 were held back it would appear. In a sense it wasn’t cut short like other programs however due to when the shows were aired. So my basic idea that the show wasn’t hurt like other shows still stands.
and lets be clear on another thing, the reason TERMINATOR isn’t getting the numbers it got last Spring has more to do with the competition it has now that wasn’t there last Spring: Chuck and the NFL.
I think FRIDAY night could work.
I understand Nick. And I hope you’re right about Fox potentially doing well Fridays.
Nick C, lets move away from TTSCC and look at what you said about Fringe. Barely 9 million viewers gave enough of a fuck about the highly advertised, buzzed premiere, but it got a one time jump of about 4 million new viewer the next week when it aired after House. So how exactly was the House lead-in irrelevant?
idizzle, 8/7 wasn’t it’s normal time period. How it does when it’s supposed to air is really all that matters.
I just have a real quick question for Nick. Where did you read that Eliza told FOX she wanted to work with Joss, and then FOX said ‘great’? That is the problem I’m having with your whole argument, because I can’t seem to factualize your whole point that you keep rehashing.