| Scoreboard |  |
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 |
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|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Total Viewers (million) | 14.09 | 11.88 | 6.10 | 5.30 | 4.47 | 3.01 |
| Rating/Share: Adults 18-49 | 3.4/8 | 3.9/10 | 2.6/6 | 2.1/5 | 1.7/4 | 1.6/4 |
| Rating/Share: Adults 18-34 | 2.3/6 | 2.5/7 | 2.4/7 | 1.8/5 | 1.8/5 | 2.3/6 |
ABC won the most viewers, but CBS took both the 18-49 and the 18-34 demos. It appears that The Big Bang Theory is getting some end of Daylight Saving Time boost with the rest of the comedy lineup tracking with where it has been this season with original episodes. CSI: Miami, though still impressive for the 10pm hour was down more than 10% among 18-49 year olds vs. its season average for first run episodes.
Chuck beat Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, but that might be the only “good news” for NBC (if coming in third can be good news). Heroes fell to a series low and though NBC is declaring it the “new hit” with Christian Slater in “the role everyone is talking about”, My Own Worst Enemy came in last among the big three at 10pm with an anemic 4.25 million and a 1.8/5 among 18-49 year olds. Someday those might be “hit” numbers for a big broadcast net, but today is not that day. Both Fox and NBC lost ground versus a similar Monday three weeks ago (it was the last time every net ran a normal schedule).
Dancing With the Stars still reels in the viewers, it’s last half hour it pulled in over 19 million viewers. Samantha Who? benefits in these overnight reports from the fact that there is a minute or two of DWTS results in that half hour which get stripped out in the final numbers. Even factoring that in, it looks on pace to have beaten Worst Week among 18-34 year olds, though Worst Week may eke out the 18-49 victory in the final analysis.
Prison Break improved over TSCC slightly in viewers and in the 18-49 demo, with noticeably better results than TSCC among 18-34 year olds. Gossip Girl and One Tree Hill had very similar numbers, with OTH a bit better in the demos. But I have to tip my cap to the CW, at least for Mondays. Their goal was to build an 18-34 female stronghold Monday through Wednesday, and at least on Mondays they are getting some results. The problem is while Dancing With the Stars doesn’t have great numbers among younger viewers relative to its large viewing population, it still hauls in a lot of 18-34 females and so does a waning Heroes.
Full details:
| Time | Net | Show | Viewers (Millons) | 18-49 Rating/Share | 18-34 Rating/Share |
| 8:00 | ABC | Dancing With The Stars | 18.29 | 4.1/10 | 2.9/8 |
| CBS | The Big Bang Theory | 10.01 | 3.9/10 | 2.7/8 | |
| NBC | Chuck | 6.23 | 2.3/6 | 2.0/5 | |
| FOX | Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles | 5.19 | 2.0/5 | 1.6/4 | |
| UNI | Cuidado con el Angel | 4.52 | 1.7/4 | 1.9/5 | |
| CW | Gossip Girl | 3.01 | 1.5/4 | 2.2/6 | |
| 8:30 | CBS | How I Met Your Mother | 9.71 | 4.1/10 | 3.4/9 |
| 9:00 | ABC | Dancing With The Stars | 19.30 | 4.4/10 | 3.0/8 |
| CBS | Two and a Half Men | 14.58 | 4.9/11 | 2.9/7 | |
| NBC | Heroes | 7.83 | 3.6/8 | 3.9/10 | |
| FOX | Prison Break | 5.41 | 2.2/5 | 2.1/5 | |
| UNI | Fuego en la Sangre | 5.12 | 2.0/4 | 2.1/5 | |
| CW | One Tree Hill | 3.01 | 1.6/4 | 2.4/6 | |
| 9:30 | ABC | Samantha Who? | 11.03 | 3.0/7 | 2.1/5 |
| CBS | Worst Week | 9.62 | 2.9/7 | 1.7/4 | |
| 10:00 | CBS | CSI: Miami | 13.67 | 3.7/10 | 2.3/7 |
| ABC | Boston Legal | 8.83 | 2.3/6 | 1.5/5 | |
| NBC | My Own Worst Enemy | 4.25 | 1.8/5 | 1.5/4 | |
| UNI | Cristina | 3.77 | 1.5/4 | 1.5/4 |
Shows are sorted by viewers in each time slot.
Nielsen TV Ratings: ©2008 The Nielsen Company. All Rights Reserved.
Definitions:
Fast Affiliate Ratings: These first national ratings, including demographics, are available at approximately 11 AM (ET) the day after telecast, and are released to subscribing customers daily. These data, from the National People Meter sample, are strictly time-period information, based on the normal broadcast network feed, and include all programming on the affiliated stations, sometimes including network programming, sometimes not. The figures may include stations that did not air the entire network feed, as well as local news breaks or cutaways for local coverage or other programming. Fast Affiliate ratings are not as useful for live programs and are likely to differ significantly from the final results, because the data reflect normal broadcast feed patterns. For example, with a World Series game, Fast Affiliate Ratings would include whatever aired from 8-11PM on affiliates in the Pacific Time Zone, following the live football game, but not game coverage that begins at 5PM PT. The same would be true of Presidential debates as well as live award shows and breaking news reports.
Rating: Estimated percentage of the universe of TV households (or other specified group) tuned to a program in the average minute. Ratings are expressed as a percent.
Share (of Audience): The percent of households (or persons) using television who are tuned to a specific program, station or network in a specific area at a specific time. (See also, Rating, which represents tuning or viewing as a percent of the entire population being measured.)
Time Shifted Viewing – Program ratings for national sources are produced in three streams of data – Live, Live+Same Day (Live+SD) and Live+7 Day. Time shifted figures account for incremental viewing that takes place with DVRs which are currently in approximately 24.4% of all U.S. TV households. Live+Same Day (Live+SD) include viewing during the same broadcast day as the original telecast, with a cut-off of 3:00AM local time when meters transmit daily viewing to Nielsen for processing. Live+7 Day ratings include incremental viewing that takes place during the 7 days following a telecast.
For more information see Numbers 101.
Good news for PB. I still think it would get more viewers in a less than competitive spot and with a lead in like Fringe or House.
Hope Heroes improves. Vol 4 is a given but past that? Doubt there will be a 5
when will DWTS end? I know it’s not a full season show, what will ABC put in it’s place?
Also, I really don’t understand what’s happening to Heroes. It’s still great! Keep watching it people! Also, isn’t Chuck up from it’s last airing?
Has anybody heard any news as to whether or not Prison Break is going to do a full 22-episode season or not? I have heard conflicting reports from different sites and I am very unsure. Also, when the scenes for next weeks episode were shown. The way that they promoted it (“what they have been building up to all season.”), seemed kind of final. If anybody knows, please fill me in, as this is the only show that I look forward to every week.
Big Bang and How I Met Your Mother are both very funny shows. Glad to know they are both doing so well. CBS is now the destination for the must see comedies. Poor NBC is such a disaster these days it’s hard to even remember that this is the network that aired decade defining hits like Cheers, Cosby, Seinfeld and Friends. I keep thinking they’ve hit rock bottom, but then they continue to decline.
No; Heroes is too good to go. God that is such a bad rating; awful. 7.83 is laugable for other channels. Its gonna be like NBC’s 13# highest primtime show now.
ABC will air a spring version of Dancing with the Hasbeens in March. In between they are putting the stupid bachelor in its place.
I still don’t see how PB doesn’t make it to 100 shows. The syndication market and especially ones overseas will let it limp through i believe.
They need to clean house at NBC. Dump most of their shows, and maybe bring back the movie of the week on a night or two. I realize that cable took the movie of the week away years ago, but hell, the ratings can’t get much worse than their current shows. You know what they say. Everything old becomes new again.
Fin and others, Where do you get the idea that Heroes is “in trouble”? Creatively, perhaps, I don’t watch the show. It’s *way* down from its peak and likely very disappointing for NBC, but it’s nowhere near being in any kind of cancellation danger. The total viewership number is meaningless for the future of the show. All that matters is the 18-49 number.
JT, In fact I think ABC has officially renamed it “The Stupid Bachelor”.
I can watch DWTS anytime and I don’t mind it, but sometimes I get really sick of that type of program crushing scripted shows.
3.6 in the demo is way too low for a expensive series like Heroes (4 millions per episode). just wait til 24 comes along, it will drop even more.
PB is confirmed for 22 episodes. Fox confirmed this.
PB is terribly awful they should axe it out already!!
Heroes has dropped alot also wow.
@ Fin, It’s not about the viewers, it’s about the demos. And anyway, The CW, and UNI don’t have any shows getting near that high. FOX does, but they aren’t ones to talk on Monday. CBS and ABC are the only ones who would find the numbers “laughable”.
Cax1 have you yourself seen it or are you going by the critics?
Cool, I await your tutorial on broadcast network show economics, please enlighten us.
Through Nov 2, Heroes was the #12 show for adults 18-49 overall and #3 for 18-49 for NBC. Office was their only scripted show that was better. Heroes is way down, but nowhere near cancellation.
Well atleast chuck is consistant.Also chuck is beating its competion aka terminator which is still sinking.Well i cant wait to see the final numbers.
Travis
NBC’s ratings are pathetic.
i’m afreid that chuck wont’n do any better this year… it won’t get more then 7 milions viewers in this season not even once… but i hope it will get 3rd season… i love that show!
funny how everyone’s picking on NBC, when Fox averaged 5.3 million viewers.
Bill or Robert..what are the chances of a 3rd season for Chuck?
I didnt say anything about cancellation but NBC cant be happy with those numbers. They once rule Mondays on 18-49 but the fact that now BBT, HIMYM, 2.5 Men, CSI Miami and even DWTS beat Heroes is just bad news.
“Fin and others, Where do you get the idea that Heroes is “in trouble”? Creatively, perhaps, I don’t watch the show, but its ratings are still very strong. It’s *way* down from its peak and likely very disappointing for NBC, but it’s nowhere near being in any kind of cancellation danger. The total viewership number is meaningless for the future of the show. All that matters is the 18-49 number.”
I agree with all you said Bill. Having said that however…’Heroes’ (and I have said this before) now needs to plan an exit strategy, just as ABC did with Lost after the third season of that respected show. Heroes is not a show with long current production shelf life, but it can still reap DVD sales if they can do the storyline right. Again the writers strike did not help and it only helped ABC and CBS gain on Monday nights. ABC doing great with “Dancing with the Stars” and very smart move for them since turing over NFL Monday Night Football to cable sister ESPN. CBS sticking to a lineup of sitcoms have done better with Big Bang Theory gaining viewers and How I Met Your Mother gaining in the younger demos.
“Kids this story may last for ten seasons…so bare with me please, I have so much to tell cause I really want to tell more about my ‘Friends’ along with the story about how I met your mother”
Notice I put Friends in quotes.
With the return of ‘24′ they also need to plan an exit strategy as well…the last season from 2006 was not their best.
Anthony, with the numbers through November 2, it looks like a nailbiter for Chuck, but my guess is it survives for another year.
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/11/04/dont-expect-lipstick-jungle-pushing-daisies-eli-stone-or-dirty-sexy-money-to-be-on-mid-season-schedules/7556
Johnthemon, the difference between FOX and NBC is that FOX has AI, House, Animation Domination and they will be #1 in viewers and the demo for the season just like last year.
Ah thanks Bill. Do you have any info on when Reaper returns?
Shame abotu Terminator’s ratings, hope it does better on Fridays.
Btw not sure if it’s just me, but I only see blank info for The CW shows in the chart…
nvm it’s ok now
Best episode so far on Worst Week. The show was hilarious. Just could not laughing.
Gwaaa, what’s happening with Terminator? Those breaks in October for the World Series must have really made a negative impact. Now I almost can’t wait for it to move to Fridays. I don’t really see how it could do any worse there…
There’s nothing surprising here with ratings going up for shows. People are staying home more, we’re off daylight savings time, and winter is setting in across the country. The numbers will start dropping in December because more people will be out Christmas shopping. January back up again after the holidays.
Last night’s episode of My Own Worst Enemy was the best of the series so far. It’s too bad nobody watched it. I guess I shouldn’t get attached to this show. This program is going the way of the dodo (or Journeyman).
Rachel,I don’t think break helped TSCC but I doubt it hurt it much either. We’ll see about Fridays. I won’t be surprised if it stays about the same but I won’t be surprised if it drops into the 4 millions either.
Millions of people will go see the Terminator movie and you’ll scratch your head and wonder why the series doesn’t do better. But millions will go see Twilight and the Moonlight faithful will says, “CBS should’ve kept that show! Vampires are in!”… even though a rerun of NCIS does better…
I dunno, Shawn, I never saw promos dubbing Journeyman the new hit or “Dan Vasser in the role everyone is talking about.” NBC/Silverman seem enamored with the show…
It’s NBCs own fault for letting those numbers sink for Chuck and Heroes. That break last week for them due to the SNL stuff did not help. And this might not have something to do with or not, but John McCains script that made fun of Heroes could have discouraged viewers from watching.
Sad, I really do love Chuck and Heroes.
I think the worrying thing about Heroes is that it has not stopped eroding viewers in total viewers or the demo. Every week gets worse. A few weeks ago, I was in the camp that there’s no way it get canceled in May. But if this trend continues, it could be below a 3.0 in the demo by then. Will it really be worth saving a $4 mil per episode show that can’t even bring in a 3.0 in the demo?
Anthony, Reaper is supposed to be back “mid-season”. I’d expect the schedule details from the CW sometime relatively soon.
Didn’t Terminator get about the same ratings last week? I think it’s fairly bottomed out right now. I can only hope the move away from the CBS comedies and Gossip Girl.
Chuck is hurting it too, but heh…if Chuck continues with episodes like it had last night I doubt they’ll see season three either. Yeesh…talk about making ridiculous character leaps just to keep some romantic tension in a series. They should have just brought the Jill character in for the full season instead of shoehorning her in for November. I feel sorry for the actors for having to try to make that episode work.
now that the CW numbers are in…isn’t 3.01 a bit low for Gossip Girl and One Tree Hill? I thought they usually netted around 4 million.
Wow, Chuck seems to be improving while Heroes keeps falling. I wouldn’t be surprised if they met at the 7 million mark by the end of the season.
Fox seems to be doing terribly now, with even their big hit House getting destroyed by NCIS…but when American Idol comes back in January, it moves to Mondays, where it’ll probably hit 15 million viewers again. Although, I wouldn’t be surprised if, with such a great lead in, Fringe became a bigger hit than House.
Johnthemon, they are never near 4 mil. 3.5 mil is huge for them.
I’m just hoping that the lack of competition on Fridays will help TSCC out because I think that is its biggest problem. Last season did much better why? Lack of competition because of the writer’s strike. We can only hope that Fridays will produce similar results to that. Hopefully people will be like, “Hmm, what to watch on this Friday night? Ive already tried Ghost Whisperer… Nah, no Wifeswap… Oh, what’s this? Terminator? I remember that show! It was actually pretty good. Let me see what’s going on with it now.”
Ya never know what will happen then… But the anticipation of waiting is killing me!
Johnthemon, you can see past CW results here:
http://tvbythenumbers.com/category/ratings/top-shows-by-network/cw-tv-ratings
Gossip Girl has generally been between 3-3.4 million for new episodes this season.
Bill, you have to look at the trend when it comes to Heroes even within the season, and for purposes of the Cancellation Index, it’s important to know that there are shows that have had one or two good weeks bumping up averages followed by four weeks of “blah”! You look at the absolute of Bionic Woman for last year and think, “perhaps NBC was premature!”, but when you look at the show by show detail and how big the 18-49 delta between the first airing and the last was and think, “ahhhhh.”
That said, I don’t think there’s any near-term worry for Heroes, but the trend is not Heroes friend, and it’s not unthinkable that it could wind up under a 3.0 among 18-49 year olds. The concern, as Julia notes is that it has not stabilized yet.
I appreciate that Heroes has been trending down, but it’s still
secondonly to the Office for scripted NBC shows in 18-49 for the week as late as November 2. A 3.6 18-49 rating likely still keeps itsecond. Third after 30 Rock!Heroes is the #1 DVR/TiVo’d show on TV so with a pretty solid rating and a loyal fanbase I would expect them to be fine. But the ratings are no where near where they should be based on their budget
No Publicity is Bad Publicity
So Sarah Connor still wrestling with 5 million…? and I have not heard them (going to be) moving it to FRIDAYS?……..When did this happen?
The only other worse night than Fridays is Saturdays…what are they doing?
Every SARAH episode rocks! I watched Chuck one week a coupe of time last year-BORING and mindless – Same story every week—get the bad guy and a will they or won’t they (main charachters “hooking up”)and it’s an OVER DONE situation from every other show that’s come out since MOONLIGHTING with Bruce Willis…
the idea is T–I–R–E–D.
One thing FOX might want to do is bring in less commercials (with a higher price) during SARAH – 4 commercial breaks in the last 30 minutes makes anyone CHANNEL SURF that didn’t record it!
Worst Week and 2.5 men did mutch better than Last weeks haults. But PB did do better than termanator, withch makes me wonder, why is this being pulled from the winter scdule.
…and for the love of all creatures great and small – when does CIRCUS WITH THE PRETEND STARS”…END??????????
It’ll be third overall with Sunday night football so NBC can’t really afford to lose it. But I think the point-in-time analysis is not what’s causing the worry among some. It’s the “falling and hasn’t stabilized yet” + big budget tha has people’s antennas up. I wouldn’t deem it “in trouble”, but having the antennas up is probably reasonable. I’m sure NBC did too, or it wouldn’t have started firing people…
Bill, are you forgetting 30 Rock? It beat Heroes the last time Heroes aired, and last week’s episode would beat these numbers as well. There’s no question that it is currently still one of NBC’s top shows in the demo (though I think third is a more accurate placement) but the question is when will it not be considered a top show? As soon as it comes back from winter break is my guess.
Bad counting again! I better check my medication dosage!
RJ, last week the SNL Election Bash stole viewers from CBS, but last night was a fairly normal Monday night for CBS as far as this season goes.
RG:
DWTS ends at the end of this month. And I had the same initial reaction as you did when I heard TSCC was going to Fridays on Feb 13. However, now I think it could potentially be a good thing. If the show stayed on Mondays and continues to get these ratings it would be sunk. But it has the potential to come in 2nd on Fridays.
Point is, seeing how the show is faring now, it really has nothing to lose by going to Friday.
Heroes may be winning the hour in 18-34, but I don’t see how that’s anything but a small consolation to NBC. The only thing they’re concentrating on right now is how to stop the bleeding. Until they do they’re going to have a smaller and smaller pool of viewers left to even try to convince to keep watching after they retool the show. I have to say though, I watched last night, mostly because I had nothing else to do at the time, and it wasn’t that bad. Not as bad as the earlier episodes this season. But the thing is, I think these are still the episodes from the part of the creative team they fired. So who knows what incarnation the show will come back in once they fix up the un-aired episodes.
…on another note—NBC is right about “how everyone is talking about MY OWN WORST ENEMY”…everyone’s talking about how they DON’T watch it!!!
…Maybe FOX NEEDS TO MOVE INTO those time slots (10P/9C)- I mean they’ve been around 20 years – you would think they would expand programming by now..and then put SARAH on against weaker programming
I’m with Rachel: “Point is, seeing how the show is faring now, it really has nothing to lose by going to Friday.”
Cole, Heroes is not the #1 show on DVR. Grey’s and The Office are the biggest. In total viewers, Heroes was Sixth and % third.
I’m pretty sure for this week Heroes will be second to only The Office (though great for 30 Rock if I’m wrong!). We’ll see, but it could be Bill’s dosage is correctly adjusted for the forward looking view.
Re: My Own Worst Enemy. I do watch it, and it’s entertaining, though far from good. There are no characters that I really like, and it’s more just the idea that it’s sold me on. Which is not enough to last for very long, and when it’s canceled it won’t even make me slightly upset.
Curse you Big Bang Theory! Why must you be so damned entertaining?! Your ratings are hurting Chuck!
Thanks Rachel P :
Wow – moving SARAH in FEBRUARY??? Hmmm – does that mean it’s going on “a HOLIDAY hiatus”?…because that will give it a mere handful of episodes and there have been no re-runs??
CrashMacKenzie, TBBT is just trying to prepare you for when Chuck is facing House and it REALLY sinks in the ratings.
NBC hyped MOWE more than the new episode of CHUCK. However the new episode of CHUCK was directed by Jay from BROKEN LIZARD, and it showed. The comedic timing and delivery last night was far better than any other point of the season. The quality of CHUCK continues to surprise me. Here is a show with one neat idea that is creatively shackled to a “Buy More,” and “lives with his sister & her fiance,” side story.
HEROES showed the biggest story telling improvement of the season for 50% of the characters. Then with some of the other characters once again the writers totally ignored all previous episodes. This is the reason the show is falling apart so fast. This is a show with a lot of fans. These fans really like certain characters and dislike other characters. The problem is some like some character while others like other characters. So it is GREAT when you show you care about characters and try and show why they reacted the way they did this season by showing us a part of their past that viewers hadn’t seen. However it is HORRIBLE when you also destroy other characters in the process.
The folks at HEROES have such a horrible continuity issue it’s getting funny. I watch now just to see how they mess up.
For those wondering about last night. The second biggest mess up had to be “Elle’s past,” as they show her normal and sweet and capable of dating as well as caring for Sylar. This totally ignores past episodes with her not knowing how to flirt with Peter, etc and describing her as a psychotic since she burned her grandmothers house down at 6 (but somehow was being trained to be an agent since 4? Maybe grandmother was a target?). The biggest mess up was killing the African guy who paints the future. They already showed that Hiro couldn’t even sneak up on him with a shovel jumping around in time. Yet, we’re supposed to believe Petrelli snuck up on him and cut his head off?
So for everything HEROES does right in story telling and takes one step forward they are always taking two steps back. They are at a point right now where I think the only character they haven’t screwed up is Matt. Then again the way things are going it’s just give them time.
I think the trend is just going to continue. I think the show will continue to lose viewers. The ONLY hope this show has is firing Tim Kring and going out and hiring someone like Grant Morrison from comics and giving him a small staff of writers. Then right an episode that has Hiro go back in time to late season 1, and warn Hiro to not do something, that would change everything and erase all of season 2 and 3. Let everyone know you’ve decided to reboot and hope for the best.
Millions of people will go see the Terminator movie and you’ll scratch your head and wonder why the series doesn’t do better.
Genre movies dominate 9 of the top 10 highest grossing domestic box office movies (including Shrek 2), yet genre TV series struggle ratings-wise. Yep, I wonder why…especially this season when the genre shows are consistently producing great episodes, IMHO.
I watch my own worst enemy,I think it’s starting to get better than it was at first.
But then again when people make up there mind to bash a show that they really havent watched much of,it’s like a virus,it catches like a disease.
People just jump on the band wagon.
well chuck has a very stabilized fanbase i think… and house will not nessesarily take that much viewers, but it mey very well by just my wishful thinking…
Plus DWTS will be over and so will MNF. HOUSE is not as intimidating as MNF and DWTS.
I think House is more intimidating in the demo than DWTS, that’s for sure. Maybe MNF ending will give Chuck a bit of a boost, but I don’t know that it will be much of one.
Julia, lucky for Schwartz his show is on NBC. A slight boost is all it needs to stick around for a 3rd season.
Yes, but I think House would counteract that boost in the demo. I don’t see DWTS sharing much of an audience with Chuck. But I guess we’ll see soon.
HEROES keeps getting worse. Wasnt there a quicker way to go over the backstories of the character whose names I keep forgetting, the Petrelli dad and the flame twins, Claire ect. The show seems to be treading water, going nowhere fast.
TSCC? They stole the plot device from a movie whose name escapes me involving a plot to kidnap the President of the US as show from different peoples viewpoints over and over. And the whole point was to dispose of Cromartie? You mean all it takes is a gunshot to the head to administer the death blow? What a girlie man cyborg. Arnold in T2 had his head bashed by a steel I beam over and over and still managed quite well to kill the T-1000. I guess they dont make Terminators like they used to, SKYNETs quality control is slipping.
The only reason Chuck is still on is that NBC has basically given up and just throwing stuff on the air no matter how mad the ratings are.
I have to agree with Robert– NBC seems to have a soft spot for MOWE for some reason. I won’t complain because I find the show generally entertaining. Not sure where it falls in the strata of NBC shows, but I’m hoping it sees S2.
Re: TSCC, I’ve found this season to be much much better than last, so I’m surprised by the ratings. It seems to have bottomed out which is good, but I’m wondering how it can pick up viewers.
I’m surprised Fox moved it to Friday as opposed to Sunday. Making it part of the animation domination might have been a very good match because those shows consistently bring in a large young male audience. In any case, I hope TSCC does well Fridays–though I have a feeling the double genre pairing is just going to bring it and Dollhouse down.
I’m with Nick (and not FrankJ) on this one. I thought last night’s Chuck was great, and I like the ex girlfriend arc for November sweeps. I’m not surprised it’s doing better than TSCC. In fact, if it weren’t on NBC, I’d be surprised that it wasn’t beating it by even more. But sadly I agree with Julia, too, going up against House isn’t going to help Chuck much — I wish they’d move Chuck somewhere else. There are enough holes in the NBC schedule where it might do better.
For those wondering FOX has confirmed PB will have 22 episodes, the question is when the back 9 will air. Anyaway it’s the final season (it won’t get to 100), i’m glad it’s the final season and i’m glad it’s an excellent final season
“TSCC? They stole the plot device from a movie whose name escapes me involving a plot to kidnap the President of the US as show from different peoples viewpoints over and over. ”
Right, like doing that is unique just to that movie you mentioned.
Last night before the episode I was even thinking, “Hey, it’d be awesome if they did an episode that focused specifically on certain character’s points of view,” and lo and behold that fateful night the episode did just that… yeah, that definitely freaked me out. =P Loved how they did it though.
” And the whole point was to dispose of Cromartie? You mean all it takes is a gunshot to the head to administer the death blow? What a girlie man cyborg. ”
Well, it obviously wasn’t a normal gun. You’ve seen what Cromartie’s been through before right? He’s been tough to kill. Though yeah, it was rather odd how it eventually was taken down. Kinda seemed too sudden.
“I dunno, Shawn, I never saw promos dubbing Journeyman the new hit or “Dan Vasser in the role everyone is talking about.” NBC/Silverman seem enamored with the show…” – Robert Seidman
Oh, don’t remind me. Those promos were completely shameless. I don’t ever remember seeing a promo that was such a blatant, flat out lie. Silverman and NBC may be enamored with the show but, as the ratings show, they’re close to being the only ones. It’ll be interesting to see just how low they’re willing to let this show sink before they finally bite the bullet.
“TSCC? They stole the plot device from a movie whose name escapes me involving a plot to kidnap the President of the US as show from different peoples viewpoints over and over.”
I think the movie you’re thinking of is Vantage Point. However, I think the real inspiration for last night’s episode was the famous 1950’s Japanese movie, Rashomon. Every movie/show that uses that multiple point of view format basically got it from Rashomon.
WOAHHHHHHHHHHH
7 million for Heroes – thats beyond low!
and 4 million for My Own Worst Enemy – jeeez thats extremely low
I actually thought Terminator was pretty good last night. They may have copied a plot device for telling the story but it was nicely done. Changed up the episode tempo from the usual.
Sad to see Cromartie go, he was rapidly becoming the most brutally honest character on the show. Cameron may start to once more take up that mantel though. haha…cracked me up as she “prepared” herself for going into John’s room for the talk. She may not be sociable but she certainly knows what superpowers to use for every occasion.
didn`t TBBT beat the 10million, i saw it had 10,01 million in other place
Vitor, you are correct sir. For the second week running for TBBT, I entered the 1 hour average for both TBBT and HIMYM. The demos and all other shows (including HIMYM) were correct, but…yep, my bad! it did 10.007mm. I’ve fixed the table.
Why was Cameron’s shotgun so effective aganist Cromatie? I’ll let the writer of the episode explain it.
“Dan (Writer) the rounds in the shotgun, our resident experts on that stuff are Ash Miller and Zack Stentz. They researched it and it’s a special round with a depleted uranium core. They actually exist”
How to stop the bleeding on Heroes? Well, not making a completely awful show would certainly help.
The bleeding will never stop. This is one instance where quality and quantity (of viewers) are directly correlated. That’s not always the case in television, but it is here. The show took a nosedive in quality towards the end of the first season, and the ratings started dipping right there. The quality has continued to nosedive each week since, and so have the ratings.
The thing with sci-fi shows is that sci-fi fans tend to have higher standards. When those standards are not met, they tend to bail quickly and permanently.
It’s bleeding may stop eventually (although I doubt it), but it’s never going to go upwards. Never. DVD sales and demos and NBC’s weak ass schedule will keep it alive through next season, but I can’t believe past that. What’s odd is that Heroes has been awful now far longer than it ever was good, and yet people keeping thinking that will change, or that the ratings will somehow rebound for no reason.
At this point you have to wonder if NBC would be better served in moving their Monday Night line-up, which they clearly seem to like to another less competitive night. Dancing With The Stars and the CBS comedies are absolutely crippling them on Monday Nights and it seems likely things will only get worse when Fox debut their House/24 double bill next year. On the plus side the (unfortunately) inevitable cancellation of Pushing Daisies opens the door for Bryan Fuller to return to Heroes, which can only be a good thing for the show creatively.
I miss Journeyman. If only I (like Moonlight fans with The Ex List) could take solace in the fact that its replacement is doing so badly. But that won’t bring Journeyman back.
It is *very* unlikely that this “volume” of Heroes will get better. The next best hope is that there’ll be enough time during the break of volumes (there will be a month or so break, right?) where they might re-work some
of the material of the next volume. Though I won’t hold my breath.
Reilly, tell me about it! Journeyman was great and made it easily into my favorite shows list with its short-lived run. It had so much potential which will never become reality now.
All HEROES has to do is fire Kring and hire a small group of talented writers who understand things like continuity. People who are good at planning storylines far ahead and then good at backtracking and checking all their facts. Since it is about super powers bringing in a really talented comic writer wouldn’t hurt either. BEN EDLUND would be extremely smart. His work on SUPERNATURAL is top notch and that show understands characters and continuity.
Once you’ve cleaned house and hired the right writing staff, just reboot. Go back to Season 1 timeline and use a Hiro of the future to warn Hiro of something new. Just ignore seasons 2 and 3 all together.
In my book it really all depends on how long it takes ABC to officially axe Pushing Daisies and ultimately free-up Bryan Fuller to return to the Heroes creative team, which he’s pretty much said he would do if PD gets axed. On paper Fuller could be back with the show (in terms of creative impact) for the final block of episodes for this season and be completely involved in shaping Volume 5. At this point I think Fuller’s return to the show is fairly essential, Heroes started hitting problems when he left to develop Pushing Daisies and its not recovered. Plus the episodes of Heroes he actually wrote during the first season were brilliant.
Schmokey,
Heroes problems were forseen from the get-go. Kring,Arkush and Hammer and few others headed up NBC’s “Crossing Jordan” for it’s first five seasons. The continuity issues were major. Some fans complained, via the chatrooms, the Powers At Be got defensive. The first thing that crossed my mind when I saw they were producing a sci-fi show…was that sci fi fans would not be as forgiving as the soccer mom set that watched the other show were. Heroes is good for season 4 but I’m not too sure about after that if the erosion doesn’t stop. Soccer moms can forgive a few 180 plot detail drops. Many did for Jordan’s 6 seasons. Sci fi fans are not so trusting. Continuity means everything. You lose that trust and it’s history.
“Once you’ve cleaned house and hired the right writing staff, just reboot. Go back to Season 1 timeline and use a Hiro of the future to warn Hiro of something new. Just ignore seasons 2 and 3 all together.” – Nick C
I have to admit that I was amused by the idea that NBC should hire writers who understand continuity for Heroes and then instruct those writers to completely ignore seasons 2 and 3 and pretend as if they never happen. If you want to retcon the show back to where it was at the end of season 1 then use someone’s power to wipe out the past year and give the show a clean slate for the fourth season. Although I would in no way support that since that would be even worse than the annoying but not earth shattering continuity errors the show currently has.
Re-boot Heroes?
Stop the bleeding?
Heroes is finished.
Tim Kring shouldn’t have stole those artists work.
Karma is real.
Alex, the problem is season 2 and 3 have no respect for continuity. It’s all over the place. The show is pretty much screwed. If it keeps going down the path it is on, it will drop below a 3.0 in the 18-49s before the end of this season. That isn’t worth picking up a 4th season. HEROES is in more trouble than people want to admit. NBC firing people is a sign that they see it.
If you want to get people back that watched Season 1, you need to do something drastic.
Rob, SNL was on Monday? I don’t remember seeing that in last weeks numbers. Huh. How mutch did SNL pull in. Because SNL is good, and i do expect it to steal viewers from CBS comedies.
Nick C, curious what you thought of Terminator last night? Or do you not watch? I’ve heard that FOX is pretty happy creatively with the show, despite the numbers. Which is what leads me to believe that, despite the doomsayers, they really do want the sci-fi block on Friday to work this Spring.
RJ, it wasn’t a regular SNL, but the SNL: Presidential 2008 Bash. You can look at the weekly broadcast top 20 to see how it did.
That´s the writer´s strike talking. All the shows which stopped their production last season with only 15 or less episodes right now had decreased their ratings. For example Chuck, Heroes, Terminator TSCC, Prison Break, My Name Is Earl even Pushing Daisies. So, in the list of the people to blame for the failure of these shows, we should blame the writers. Sorry for bad english
Frank J:
So, FOX is happy with TSCC then? Awesome! Glad they aren’t just looking at numbers… I’m really hoping the Friday block works out too.
And really, it should be obvious that the reason the numbers are low is because of the competition (namely DWTS stealing nearly 20 million viewers each Monday). TSCC has proved last season that it can garner up a good crowd; it just needs to be placed in the right timeslot to do so.
“For those wondering FOX has confirmed PB will have 22 episodes, the question is when the back 9 will air. Anyaway it’s the final season (it won’t get to 100), i’m glad it’s the final season and i’m glad it’s an excellent final season.”
I agree that PB should have closure this season. Its time for the Brothers Burrows to finally kick the behinds of The Company who is responable for putting them in the clink in the first place.
Get Scylla, expose The Company, get back to a normal life…one can hope.
I need to add, that maybe the American TV model needs to change its thinking about the 100+ episode thing.
“TSCC has proved last season that it can garner up a good crowd; it just needs to be placed in the right timeslot to do so.” – Rachel P
I don’t believe you can use TSCC’s performance last year as an indicator of what its capable of doing in a ‘normal’ season. If memory serves me right then it debuted mid season and was one of the only scripted shows running new episodes and not stuck in repeats, it was always going to do better in that situation than it would going up against new shows across all the other networks. There was just no competition when it debuted. I suspect that had TSCC debuted last year without the writers strike it probably would have hit the same numbers it is now.
“Alex, the problem is season 2 and 3 have no respect for continuity. It’s all over the place. The show is pretty much screwed. If it keeps going down the path it is on, it will drop below a 3.0 in the 18-49s before the end of this season. That isn’t worth picking up a 4th season. HEROES is in more trouble than people want to admit. NBC firing people is a sign that they see it.” – Nick C
I don’t disagree that there are creative problems with the show but I also don’t think that a major series retcon of just pretending seasons 2 & 3 never happened is going to work, it just alienates the audience that have stuck with the show and it doesn’t really do much to win round the people that have stopped watching. What do you want them to do, pull a Dallas ‘Dream Season’? As I said previously I’m willing to take a wait and see with Heroes creatively to see what impact, if any, the return of Bryan Fuller will have.
Fuller was a key creative figure during season one and it was only after his departure to develop Pushing Daisies that Heroes started to hit problems. If rumor is to be believed then NBC are keen to bring Fuller back as a writer and have him fill the vacant Exec-Producer role when Pushing Daisies wraps, so my guess is that they’re hoping the return of one of the key creative figures from the first season will help to spark a revival of the show.
At this point I can’t see Heroes not returning for a fourth season just because, what else does NBC have? Short of launching new shows across just about every night and timeslot next season what is NBC going to do if they don’t bring shows like Heroes back, which have struggled recently but still create some degree of buzz and interest. It costs a hell of a lot of money to launch new shows so for another year at least NBC may be better with the devil they know whilst they replace complete disasters like Worst Enemy next year.
I don’t watch much TV on Mondays. I have no dog in this fight except I am rooting for NBC to be competitive with ABC. Lost cause syndrome. Did not know Heroes had such good 18-34 numbers. I honestly hate all CBS sitcome, including Raymond. But their strategy is working. If could time channel surfing with Brooke Burke’s dancing … uh, anyway. I don’t like these talent shows because the squealing programmatic American Bandstand studio audience wrecks the honest opinions of the experts – and I don’t care, they know more than claques ever can. I hate live studio reactions to any show and wish they would either shut up or really go for broke with fistfights and such like a soccer match. I’d rather have canned responses and laugh tracks than the fiction of live studio audiences which destroys and dates Norman Lear comedies, Friends, Will and Grace, all the unfunny or mediocre sitcoms.( Thank you, Captain Morgan, for allowing me to overcome DDD and get this typed.)
It’s looking like Reaper could premiere as early as January. They’re almost done filming their 13 episodes.
“I don’t believe you can use TSCC’s performance last year as an indicator of what its capable of doing in a ‘normal’ season. If memory serves me right then it debuted mid season and was one of the only scripted shows running new episodes and not stuck in repeats, it was always going to do better in that situation than it would going up against new shows across all the other networks. There was just no competition when it debuted. I suspect that had TSCC debuted last year without the writers strike it probably would have hit the same numbers it is now.”
No, that’s the thing. You’re right; it was up against barely any competition. But the numbers it got showed that people WOULD watch it as opposed to simply not caring for it at all. So for example, on Fridays in its new timeslot the only competition really would be Ghost Whisperer. I think TSCC has the potential to do well there. But of course I could be completely wrong. You can never be sure.
Prison Break on the rise yeahhhhhhhh, i hope Heroes bombs, people say PB is a terrible show, well Heroes is pathetic!!!
Gossip Girl and One Tree Hill fell to severe season lows last night, each dropping below three million viewers. The demo numbers stayed relatively stable, however. From PIFeedback/TravisYanan:
Gossip Girl
- 2.883 million viewers
- 2.0/3 HH
- 1.5/4 A18-49
- 2.2/6 A18-34
One Tree Hill
- 2.989 million viewers
- 2.0/3 HH
- 1.6/4 A18-49
- 2.4/6 A18-34
http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63310451/m/616108271?r=918109271#918109271
The only thing TSCC did wrong in last night’s episode was not TELL people that Cameron’s shotgun was loaded with DU ammo. OTOH, it would have been better and splashier if she’d used Derek’s M-79 grenade launcher from the “Mousetrap” episode to simply blow Cromartie apart like she did the flipped-out Terminator last season in the “D&D” episode.
Anybody notice how that shoot out last night was a reprise of the final scene in “Scarface” (the Pacino version)? There’s Cromartie acting like Pacino, getting shot up right and left and not going down. In walks Cameron like the assassin with a shotgun and blows him away!
And the Mexico police station massacre was a reprise of the Arnold police station massacre in the original “Terminator” movie.
And Summer Glau was incredibly HOT in the bedroom scene. I had predicted that she would make a move on John to repair their damaged relationship after she tried to kill him in episode one, and worse, babbling about how she “loved him” – which only angered him.
So what did she do last night? First, she puts on her “seduction array” – hot pants and boots. Then she strips off her jacket, leaving only a thin top before entering his room. Then she closes the doors, establishing that this is going to be an “intimate session” without Sarah or Derek around. Then she climbs on his bed with major thighage showing!
John nervously tries to blow it off by asking her if she thinks Riley will be scarred for life if she sees them in bed. Cameron coolly blows that off by telling him she watched Riley leave “until I couldn’t see her” – again establishing that this is intended to be an “intimate moment” – with Riley on the outs.
Then she tells John that he’s endangering Riley. (Josh Friedman agrees – in the online chat last night, he said he thinks John’s “an idiot” for being involved with Riley – but that John has his reasons.) Then she tells him she knows being John Connor is “lonely”. And that she and future John “talk about that a lot”.
If the Caminator ever makes a more aggressive move on Connor, the kid is TOAST! She’s demonstrated twice this season that she can be major seductive (the first time in the bar scene in “Automatic for the People”). She tried to seduce him last year in the “Vic’s Chip” episode, but that got spoiled when Sarah smelled nail polish and came into the bedroom.
She’s doing this for her hidden agenda, which we know nothing about as yet. But we know she has one because the evidence indicates that she was never sent back by future John at all – she came back on her own initiative. We know that because 1) future John would never have sent back a Terminator not subject to either his or his mother’s orders, not when there was a risk of it going ape; 2) we know she had access to the time chamber, because it was her retinal scan that opened the door for Derek in “D&D”; 3) we know she knows how to operate the time machine because she did it in the pilot.
Trust me – Cameron is going to nail John at some point and make him her slave.
What is with this notion, floated first in EW and seen in this thread as well, that HEROES “needs to plan an exit strategy like LOST”.
These two shows have NOTHING in common. HEROES isn’t a serialized “puzzle” series like LOST where the entire series hinges on its outcome. I mean, most superhero shows, or movies, don’t have “end games.” This show doesn’t, and it doesn’t need one for it to function properly either.
What it DOES need is better storytelling, and arcs that can comprise an entire season and keep viewers coming back. That has nothing to do with an “exit strategy” any more than ANY other dramatic series on television needs one in order to be successful.
Doc, you’re right and it’s kind of silly. LOST is something that needs an ending. HEROES is theoretically something that could keep going on for ages. It’s a shame it fell apart so quickly. Then again once it was successful NBC should have paid Kring off and put someone else in charge. It isn’t like insiders weren’t talking about this as the likely scenario during season 1.
Huh as the veiwership for Heroes is down the 18-34 is still dominating the night. Not for Heroes but what would be a good 18-49 for a show?
Rob, If i had to just guess, SNL did about 12-14 million viewers, Because 2.5 men only did 12 million, and for that show i think it’s a low rating.
I just don’t understand. Heroes is so much better than last year and yet its ratings are worse!!
R.J.: no need to “guess”
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/11/11/60-minutes-csi-and-sunday-night-football-lead-weekly-top-20/7938
i agree Cameron; but its odd. The veiwership is down to like 60% of season three but the 18-49 is only down 17%.
Rob, I was right. 14 Million Viewers for SNL. No wonder Worst Week and 2.5 men was low last Monday.
Yeah, Heroes is definitely treading water. This weeks episode which even changed the credits of the show to “Villians but basically just backtracked for an entire episode just to give a little more back story to Arthur Petrelli’s character, which honestly is a great character and his sucking Peter’s powers dry was a needed plot device but I was perfectly okay not knowing everything that led to his MIA status up until a couple eps ago. A little mystery goes a long ways if you do it right. Instead they dumb it down and hold our hand showing step by step how it got to this point and how it affected events that we already knew about.
Get on with it or at least give us some resolution to some characters who’s fates were left uncertain last season. What happened to the girl who could mimic anything she watched in New Orleans? What happened to Peter’s Irish girlfriend that nobody who watched the show even liked. We still want to know some of these things….
Journeyman was doing much better than MOWE this time last year, didn’t drop below 6 million viewers until they had already annouced that they were cancelling the show. Heck, If they kept it, would probably be doing about as good as heroes is now on a much lowere budget.
regarding TSCC’s episode, of course it wasn’t a regular shotgun. you could tell as soon as you saw it, at least that’s what i thought during the episode.
however it didn’t make sense that cameron didn’t just unload on him with it to begin with. i doubt that chromartie couldn’t have killed sarah or derek in the first “wave” where they’re apparently softening him up/depleting his ammo.
this show would be so good on sunday 9-10, following simpsons/tfg.
Heroes is already going over their $4 million budget per episode. There is no way NBC is going to take on another season of Heroes. Bye bye Heroes!!
How do you know its going over its $4 milliom budget??? If American Dad only commands $156,000 per 30sec commercial then Heroes will command liie $180,000+ surely. So has around 18 minutes of commercials, meaning the episode makes $6,480,000. Thus making $2,480,000 an episode and money to make another. Although this is just a guestimate based on a lower rated shows costs. But it can’t be that far of can it? If it makes close (more) than American Dad and thats the math then it might make a bit of money per episode?
Or does anyone else have some proof it could be otherwise (i actually would like to known because i find it hard to beleive it can’t be making a bit of money).
Anyway at Heroes current 18-49 numbers it is NBC’s second highest rated sitcom and proberly show. The only question is whether it wil get worse.
sitcom? i mean scriped show… sorry
Yes it is the second highest scriped show (18-49) and like 3rd/4th on overall (18-49)
Fin, Heroes’ average for the season may be the second highest for NBC, but this week it tied for third with Law & Order: SVU and 30 Rock. It’s last airing was in third place as well. It’s on a steady downward trend, and at this rate it won’t be long before its average demo is lower than 2nd place. Perhaps much lower.
Also, as to its $4 mil budget, it’s been reported that it goes over that. Unless the article about firing a couple execs lied about that, it’s fact.