Steve Wozniak, Dancing with the Stars
| Scoreboard |  |
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|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Total Viewers (million) | 18.87 | 11.74 | 11.59 | 6.46 | 3.98 | 1.15 |
| Rating/Share: Adults 18-49 | 5.1/13 | 4.2/11 | 4.0/10 | 2.6/7 | 1.6/4 | 0.5/1 |
| Rating/Share: Adults 18-34 | 3.8/11 | 3.9/11 | 2.8/8 | 2.2/6 | 1.9/6 | 0.6/2 |
ABC won the night in overall viewers and the 18-49 demo thanks to the return of Dancing With the Stars. Dancing bowed with 22.5 million viewers, nearly a 7% improvement from its fall 2008 premiere when it averaged 21.1 million. Last night averaged a 5.9/15 among adults 18-49 vs. the September 2008 premiere which averaged a 5.4 rating in the preliminary overnights. It’s also up vs. its spring 2008 premiere (3/17/08) where it had a 5.6 rating in adults 18-49.
Retention-istas won’t love the numbers for the premiere of Castle which averaged 11.6 million and a 3.3/9. And these numbers will come down because the 10pm hour has a couple of minutes worth of DWTS baked into it that will be pulled out in the final numbers. The half hour numbers tell some of that tale – it averaged 13.079 million and a 3.7/9 from 10p-10:30p and 10.13 million and a 2.9/8 from 10:30pm to 11pm.
CBS’ Monday night comedy block and CSI: Miami were still potent, but down versus season averages for new episodes.
I don’t want to talk too much about Chuck and Heroes - the fans will no doubt “chime in”, but they had their lowest original airings among adults 18-49. Last night’s Chuck was so awesome, too. Monday night was only the second night of Daylight Saving Time, and that can have an impact with 8pm shows, though it seemed to impact Chuck hardest if that’s the case.
FOX got respectable performance out of House & 24. House took the 18-34 demographic in the 9pm hour and 24 was up versus last week.
You can see previous Monday overnight reports for more comparison.
Full details:
| Time | Net | Show | Viewers (Millons) | 18-49 Rating/Share | 18-34 Rating/Share |
| 8:00 | ABC | Dancing with the Stars (season premiere) | 21.28 | 5.4/14 | 3.8/12 |
| FOX | House | 12.13 | 4.8/13 | 4.6/14 | |
| CBS | The Big Bang Theory | 9.46 | 3.6/10 | 2.4/8 | |
| NBC | Chuck | 5.69 | 2.0/5 | 1.6/5 | |
| CW | Gossip Girl (R) | 1.15 | 0.5/1 | 0.6/2 | |
| 8:30 | CBS | How I Met Your Mother | 8.51 | 3.5/9 | 2.9/9 |
| 9:00 | ABC | Dancing with the Stars (season premiere) | 23.72 | 6.6/16 | 4.8/13 |
| CBS | Two and a Half Men | 13.28 | 4.7/11 | 3.0/8 | |
| FOX | 24 | 11.35 | 3.6/9 | 3.2/8 | |
| NBC | Heroes | 6.63 | 3.2/8 | 3.2/8 | |
| CW | One Tree Hill (R) | 1.16 | 0.5/1 | 0.6/2 | |
| 9:30 | CBS | Rules of Engagement | 10.04 | 3.7/9 | 2.3/6 |
| 10:00 | CBS | CSI: Miami | 14.12 | 4.3/11 | 3.0/9 |
| ABC | Castle (premiere) | 11.60 | 3.3/9 | 2.7/8 | |
| NBC | Medium | 7.05 | 2.5/7 | 1.9/5 | |
| 8:00 | ABC | Dancing with the Stars (season premiere) | 19.64 | 4.7/13 | 3.3/11 |
| 8:30 | ABC | Dancing with the Stars (season premiere) | 22.92 | 5.9/15 | 4.2/12 |
| 9:00 | ABC | Dancing with the Stars (season premiere) | 23.46 | 6.4/16 | 4.7/13 |
| 9:30 | ABC | Dancing with the Stars (season premiere) | 23.97 | 6.7/16 | 4.8/13 |
Shows are sorted by viewers in each time slot.
Nielsen TV Ratings: ©2009 The Nielsen Company. All Rights Reserved.
Definitions:
Fast Affiliate Ratings: These first national ratings, including demographics, are available at approximately 11 AM (ET) the day after telecast, and are released to subscribing customers daily. These data, from the National People Meter sample, are strictly time-period information, based on the normal broadcast network feed, and include all programming on the affiliated stations, sometimes including network programming, sometimes not. The figures may include stations that did not air the entire network feed, as well as local news breaks or cutaways for local coverage or other programming. Fast Affiliate ratings are not as useful for live programs and are likely to differ significantly from the final results, because the data reflect normal broadcast feed patterns. For example, with a World Series game, Fast Affiliate Ratings would include whatever aired from 8-11PM on affiliates in the Pacific Time Zone, following the live football game, but not game coverage that begins at 5PM PT. The same would be true of Presidential debates as well as live award shows and breaking news reports.
Rating: Estimated percentage of the universe of TV households (or other specified group) tuned to a program in the average minute. Ratings are expressed as a percent.
Share (of Audience): The percent of households (or persons) using television who are tuned to a specific program, station or network in a specific area at a specific time. (See also, Rating, which represents tuning or viewing as a percent of the entire population being measured.)
Time Shifted Viewing – Program ratings for national sources are produced in three streams of data – Live, Live+Same Day (Live+SD) and Live+7 Day. Time shifted figures account for incremental viewing that takes place with DVRs which are currently in approximately 24.4% of all U.S. TV households. Live+Same Day (Live+SD) include viewing during the same broadcast day as the original telecast, with a cut-off of 3:00AM local time when meters transmit daily viewing to Nielsen for processing. Live+7 Day ratings include incremental viewing that takes place during the 7 days following a telecast.
For more information see Numbers 101.
Chuck =( This sucks..the competition is too fierce!
It really does go to show how thick some people are to watch Reality nonsense.
Isn’t the whole point of TV to suspend reality?
Glad 24 got its good share. Chuck i am still hopeful for. It just cannot compete on Mondays. Minorly due to the fact its so crowded and the NBC execs hav been dumping on it by stopping it and starting it over and over again like a cadillac with a cough
I think Chuck is going to be picked up because they seem to like the show at NBC but I see it being moved to a less formitable night. Look for it on thursday or friday in fall
NBC got killed!
Was it evil stunt-casting genius to add dumped “Bachelor” choice to DWTS? I don’t recall the lady’s name, but wasn’t it just last week when she was dumped live on TV? And fatefully, two “stars” were injured, leaving room for her in the cast? Can’t say I watched either show, but the tabloid fodder is amusing
WOW! DWTS took a bite out of everybody’s audience at 8pm. Chuck lost a million viewers from last week and scored its lowest total audience ever (5.9 mil was the previous low). House, BBT, & HIMYM all lost 1.5 – 2 mil viewers.
Not looking good for Chuck.
Noooooo, Chuck!!! I can’t even string together a coherent response after seeing that number.
I am very scared for ‘Medium’ getting a 7.05. I think is the lowest for the ratings for the show…ever.
Terrible retention for Castle. I imagine it won’t be getting a pick up for next season.
Damn, DWTS heurted House a lot. God I hate this show. It now has the same numbers has AI.
Still, House kicks in the demos, should stay there for a long while. I think the DVR will have a big boost because of DWTS
I think ABC will be pleased with castle. He had a big lead-in though
As for heroes… it’s juste dead… 3.2. 24 is managing better demos than heroes. The fall seems to continue for them.
My heart dropped when I saw the numbers for Chuck this week, especially after such a great episode last night. Now I’m REALLY worried. How can Chuck be expected to compete w/ HOUSE and DWTS!? UGH…so frustrating. :*(
You haft to be kidding me.Oh yea we get to see celebs dance people if you want to dance go to a club and watch.This is getting down right mindless this reality crap.House i can understand.But come on dacing is the samething over and over again like idol.
as much as it saddens me that Heroes numbers are still bad, I’ll take comfort in knowing that all of NBC’s Monday lineup got drilled, maybe NBC will have sympathy on all of their Monday shows with the knowledge that it’s so damn competitive on Mondays.
AAAHHHH Chuck?! how can this be?
last nights ep was one of the top 3 of the series, and it get low ratings.
Cross your fingers Chucksters!!!
Jenna, me too.
MWA, I’m not sure in terms of overall viewers, but I’m pretty sure that wasn’t the lowest 18-49 rating ever for Medium.
clutz, the entire cast of DWTS is stunt casting, that’s the whole idea of the show!
Can i just say i hope everyone on dancing and idol get a really bad case of something that cancels the shows for good.
on a different note, I think castle went well, and looks like it got decent ratings.
Yay Heroes may have fell in veiwers but the demos stayed strong: against such tough competition: I think Heroes did quite well
Heroes and Chuck both being down is pretty much expected at this point and to be completely honest I’m more interested in what Heroes does in two weeks time with the Fuller episode. Although its not being promoted as Fuller’s return (because people won’t care) the preview I saw was hyping it up as Heroes as good as its ever been so we’ll see what effect, if any, that has on the numbers. On a related note why no new Heroes next week? And does that carry over to Chuck as well? Whilst another week of promotion and word of mouth might (although I think it’s a long shot) help Heroes if the episode is good I can’t see it doing Chuck many favours at this point.
On the subject of Castle I think it has potential and despite all the negative word of mouth leading into the debut last night I didn’t think the pilot was that bad. It was a little too much but that’s standard operating procedure for pilots of a show like this, assuming it calms down a little over the coming weeks I think it has a future, especially given the comparative lack of competition at 10 – if it was airing at 9 then it would be dead on arrival. Plus I thought Nathan Fillion was pretty brilliant in it.
Color me mystified. Chuck is getting much better, but it was so lame when it came back that it really cut its own throat. NBC screwed up with the scheduling, no doubt, but creatively the show has been all over the map this season. It’s a shame the ratings are so poor, but I cannot blame NBC entirely.
But what really mystifies me is 24. I tuned back in last night and thought I was watching the most expensive hour of General Hosptital ever. Not a minute went by without the show being flat out ridiculous.
NOT. ONE. SINGLE. MINUTE. (as Jack Bauer might say it through gritted teeth)
I thought that would catch up with 24 this season, as it has in previous bad seasons, but apparently 11 million is the basement number of hardcore Luke and Laure fans out there willing to put up with any level of stupidty so long as they can see them some Quiefer. But the casting of Jerry Jaks as Quinn was just a bit too GH-on-the-nose for me.
Castle might have a chance. Those are not very good numbers but good enough for now. Haven’t see it yet, but if it gets better, as by all reports it does, then that DWTS lead in might allow this show to make it. Expect to see it go down before it goes up (if it ever goes up), but at least it’s in the best time slot for gaining if it ever starts getting good enough to generate some real word-of-mouth. And it’s got enough of an audience so far that it could build upon it. Not like it came out of the gate to 7 million and 2.0 demo. Could have been a lot worse considering how truly awful the commercials for the show have been.
Clutz, her name is Melissa Rycroft and apparently she has some dancing skills too. Her being added at the last moment might well have something to do with the ratings improvements.
Hope Heroes gets stronger… its getting better i think with Volume 4 anyway.
Given ABC’s numbers this year, and renewal history, Castle seems to be fitting right into the October Road mold of “questionable 13-episode second season pickup”. Let’s see if history repeats itself yet again over there.
Not only are Heroes’ numbers bad, but they aren’t even winning with youth vs. 24 anymore. NBC really needs to not schedule Heroes against other action hours next year – if Fox goes with a woman-focused Mon 9pm in Fall, NBC needs to air Heroes then, rather Winter, period.
I wonder if Chuck would do better on Fridays, if that would get the show picked up for next season I would take it but it’s demos are so low, it’s lost a third since the heavily promoted 3d episode. I love the how, better every week but the viewership is worse every week, please NBC save Chuck!
Reality TV is ruining my life!! (Or something slightly less dramatic…) Seriously, almost a decade ago, when I was in middle school, I wrote a paper about how unscripted shows in primetime were a horrible idea and ruining TV – and back then, it was just Millionaire and Survivor. Ughhhh, how are people still fascinated by this crap?
I’m so scared to see the updated renew/cancel index. Poor Chuck. :/
11.6 for castle!! nice
any of these stars really stars?
it seems like the great seat-warming performance by the bachelor benefited DWTS greatly. also, it seems that daylight savings only affected abc’s first half hour (if daylight savings really DOES affect anything at all, which i am definately at least skeptical of)
I watched some 24 on the UK channel before Heroes last night aswell (so I think for America it was last weeks episode) but it was just boring: theres no real character just political pausues, dramatic moments: I really think its getting quite old. The storylines are just becoming boring: Jack is proberly just quite a placid character. The only good bit is the next move bits: how will the situation go down: but even that I’m sure would bore me after a while.
Schmokey nobody watches 24 for realistic television, I know I’d be disappointed if I tuned in and the show wasn’t completely ridiculous from start-to-finish. That’s the whole fun of 24 and why people keep watching. It’s over the top popcorn entertainment that gets more and more over the top every week. That’s the basic formula that has driven the show since its first season. Seriously in season 1 Jack’s wife suffered amnesia for all of two-hours I think it was. It was absurd but brilliant.
DWTS took a real bite out of the other shows. Hopefully they can recover. Either way, I think ABC was looking forward to DWTS starting more than FOX looks forward to Idol.
The Castle premiered well, but most ABC shows do. The problem ABC has is keeping the viewers that show up to the premiere. Of course, since these numbers probably have a few minutes of DWTS baked in, that could change for the finals.
I hate reality shows, especially DTWS: its soooooooooooo crap and boring. American Idol is shit because it has Simon Cowell who I bet was nothing before he went into reality shows.
Man, HIMYM didn’t have a great return tonight, after doing so amazingly well all season. I’m not worried- it’s a lock for a pickup, and it’s getting ridiculously close to syndication, but still, a 3.5 rating? It’s been consistently pulling in a 4.0+ this season, and it usually easily outdarw Big Bang Theory in 18-49. Just thought I’d point that out.
BTW, I inadvertently had the labels for CBS and FOX switched. It was FOX, not CBS that was second place for the night. It’s fixed now.
@Holly, the numbers for Castle have 2 minutes of DWTS — I mentioned that in the post (and gave the half hour numbers for Castle in the prose)
Fin in terms of signing acts that made a lot of money Cowell was a very succseful guy within the music industry before he got into reality television. You aren’t likely to find any critically acclaimed artists amongst the people he signed but just about every single one of them made a small fortune.
Chuck was down in overall viewers, but its demos didn’t drop *that* badly.
(Trying to be positive, here.)
I say grit it out the rest of this season, then try it on Wednesdays in the fall.
Fin: How can you justify a season in one episode?
This season of 24 has blown away the bad taste of number 6 and is getting up there with the heights of 1,2., and 5
Those Chuck numbers are giving me a heart attack. That has to be DWTS and time change related, because there is nothing that happened on the show regarding quality of episodes to justify that huge a drop off. Last night’s episode may have been one of the best of the season. Heroes is way down too, so I have hope NBC recognizes that this week was impossible ratings wise.
i think cbs’s 18-34 is off, none of their shows reached 3.9 but thats the average
I think 3.3 isn’t madly bad for ABC: I mean Samantha Who? wasn’t exactly superb was it? And at least Castle looks good, I hope the numbers increase: its looks like fun. The only thing is why program a cop-drama=ish show against CSI: there similiar audiences I would have thought: apart from maybe CASTLE being closer to the younger demos (and possibly women).
never mind i saw its fixed now
Maybe they should try moving Chuck to Wednesday at 8. Once American Idol switches to 9, there really won’t be much competition at 8:00.
With Knight Rider ending, what is NBC planning to put the hour? Some new show?
Oh My God! Heroes’ ratings are DISMAL! tbh, I’m baffled by the fact that it hasn’t been canceled yet, but with those numbers it shouldn’t take long.
I don’t understand why Daylight Savings Time significantly affects ratings. Where I live, and in a lot of the country, I’m sure, it’s still pretty cold out – not really the best weather for hanging around outside at night.
@Robert, That will teach me not to read the text…
LOL! Bashing 24 is so 2007.
Season 7 has been a renaissance for fans of the show. Happily after a dreadful Season 6 and the critical beating it took the majority of fans and critics are very happy with this installment.
But hey, for you johnny-come-lately bashers, you are free to change the channel and watch a real soap opera…DWTS.
Mike, a 2.0 is a disaster.
Castle is DOA. Those are horrible numbers for a premiere that will go even lower in the finals.
Ant I said the episode was boring not the season: theres a difference but I said if that was what the shows like I won’t be coming back (I might watch it next week though because theres not much else on).
On the subject of Chuck, I don’t think fans of the show should worry too much about this weeks numbers on their own although they are a slight cause for concern. The real test is what it does with the next new episode, if its still down then you should worry but if it rebounds then you (and I suspect NBC) can chalk it up to a DWTS and daylight’s caused blip.
Mike Heroes has already been renewed for next season. It’s not going anywhere…
I think this may be one reason why Heroes may finally be moved out of Mondays and likey moved to Sunday night next season.
People just like a show were they have a say on who stays…and who goes. Just don’t give them a vote.
We knew that DWTS was going to lay the smackdown. I will not watch it until the scripted shows I do like are more/less gone or out of its beeline.
Those shows are…
The Big Bang Theory (if that was the only show for the record. I would watch that then switchover to Stars…maybe I would record BBT and watch Stars just in case I wanted to cast votes)
24
Heroes
Heroes for sure is moving out of Mondays. DWTS is a big reason why NBC is going to screen Chuck and Heroes non stop until late April and air their respected finales by that time.
Mike, Heroes hasn’t been cancelled because NBC doesn’t have that many shows that can get a 3.2 in the demo,especially sandwiched in between DWTS,24 and 2 and A Half Man.
Also the fact that everything (outside of Dancing…) dropped this week will likely help Chuck out on the writing it off as a blip front. As long as it rebounds with the next episode, if it doesn’t then Chuck is screwed.
Late to the party, but as I said last week, every week now will be a series low for Heroes. While Castle did better in viewers than I guessed yesterday, that demo is really pathetic, considering the lead in. I’m no retentionista, but still. If it can stay about 3.0 it’ll get another season, but I doubt they’ll leave it in such a cushy spot. But I did enjoy it, though the female detective is annoying. The ex-wife was a much better love interest.
Heather, its pretty clear that early evening shows suffer a hit when Daylight Savings Time starts, and get a boost when it ends. This chart of Evening News ratings shows it quite well.
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/06/24/broadcast-evening-news-ratings-june-16-20/4227
Alex, my favorite show is Lost. I also like Chuck quite a bit, and one of my favorite shows of all time is Firefly, so it’s pretty tough to say that I am cracking on 24 for a lack of realism. Some versimilitude would be nice, however. Or maybe even a passing acknowledgement of the laws of physics.
No, I don’t expect television to be real, and I’m not ripping 24 for a lack of realism. I just hate it because it’s the laziest show I’ve ever seen. The level of plotting, detail, and character, not mention acting, are all right there with General Hospital. You can do the same story, with the same cast, with the same budget (actually, at a considerably lower budget) and actually be interesting or gripping or even, dare I say it, fun. Instead, it’s sort of like watching the MST3000 movies just for the pure enjoyment of them.
As Jack Bauer would say, “DUMBEST. SHOW. EVER!!”
Of course, then he’d shoot you.
I think the most shocking drop is that of How I Met Your Mother and BBT. I completely expected the numbers for Chuck and Heroes to be brutal. It is clear that they can’t compete on Mondays.
Still, it absolutely baffles me that people continue to watch DWTS. I can hardly watch the commercials during the 1 hour a week I spend watching Lost on ABC
oh god NO!!! Poor Chuck… that was my FAVORITE Chuck episode too, it was AWESOME. Apparently everyone was watching dancing with the stars instead
Jenna, Heroes has not been renewed. NBC talked about how they plan to renew it, but nothing official has been announced. Just like Ugly Betty over on ABC. It’ll be hard to get out of renewing either of them after the comments the execs have made, but nothing has been signed.
I am so happy to see 24 still doing so well. This season is incredibly good, and the “rediculous” things that happen are what make it amazing.
Schmokey.
Please watch an episode of 24.
Laziest show of all time? Seriously..i mean SERIOUSLY?
Stay in school kids.
Julia, although anything is theoretically possible with Ugly Betty and Heroes. Now that the network heads have said they are coming back, it would be unprecedented for them not to. Let’s deal in probabilities. They’re coming back.
Not the best start for Castle, I enjoyed the opening so I hope it can retain next week.
I don’t understand how DLS can be a cause for lower numbers on the second night after the switch. Are people really that dumb that they haven’t noticed that it’s an hour later? Especially after they presumably went to work on a Monday.
If the nosedive trend continues for Heroes, NBC has enough room to back out even from a written contract, which Heroes doesn’t have yet.
Thanks for the link, Bill, that chart does give a very good visual of the DST effect. I wasn’t questioning its effect, I just personally find it odd that daylight would factor in… but then again, I’m more of an indoor girl.
I know, Bill, but when Heroes drops below 3.0 and Betty remains below 2.0 without American Idol, it just doesn’t make any sense at all to me that either network will be able to bring them back.
….. is attempting not to like castle …. the ratings seem modest right now with dwts giving it a nice lead in …. but i will not fall for another pushing daisies … i will not !!….but its so good …. darn you abc !!
Carnage.
Lowest ratings of the season for House, Chuck, Heroes, How I Met Your Mother, Medium and of course Rules of Engagement. And I’ll have to check but some of those might be the lowest ever (Like Heroes and House).
I don’t know about Two and a Half Men.
It’s a shame. Both House and Chuck had fantastic episodes last night.
I agree that Castle is DOA. Not only did they lose more than half of its lead-in, but they lost 3 million viewers in the second half-hour. Doesn’t really get worse than that.
Jared, it’s not that people don’t know what time it is, it’s that they are out later (not watching TV) because it gets dark later.
Schmokey I don’t necessarily disagree with you on 24 I can’t say I’ve really enjoyed the show since its third season but my point was that in general I suspect the people that are sticking around are doing so for the reason’s you dislike the show – its complete and utter absurdity. Great characters, acting and plotting do not a popular show make, ask FX about Damages sometime. Sometimes people just want a completely ridiculous so bad its good slice of television and I think 24 fills that role perfectly for a lot of people and I think the producers have very keenly grasped that, that’s now the shows central appeal and are running with it.
On the subject of Heroes, I would be amazed if NBC moved it.
People will mention that it might do better on another night (and it might) but if NBC move it to Sunday’s then that means they have to throw another show (and probably a new one) into the middle of the Monday night’s hornets nest and given their current hit making rate that’s not a good idea. If they’re not airing Heroes Monday’s at 9 against Dancing…, 24, and the CBS comedies then what are they going to air? I can see another show slotting into the slot at the start of next season but unless it does spectacularly well then my guess is Heroes returns Monday’s at 9 midseason at the latest.
Some people in this site said Castle would have 9 million or something. So, I think this is better.
How can someone prefer Dancing With The Starts to Chuck (or even House)?
David, the 3 million viewers lost are due to having a few minutes of DWTS in the mix in the first half hour.
“Castle” was just about where I predicted it to be yesterday, and I think ABC is happy with the premiere numbers. It’ll be interesting to see how it does next week, cause it’s way too early to label it a hit or miss. I figure if it can average 10 to 11 million viewers and above a 3.0 during its spring run, it’ll be renewed for next season.
I’m a bit shocked at the return of “DWTS”….it did way better than I figured. Just like Idol, I really can’t figure out why massive droves of people keep tuning in. It looked particularly good in the demo as well; perhaps that last minute casting stunt brought in some “Bachelor” viewers who normally wouldn’t have watched. CBS has got to be sweating these numbers somewhat, as the race for 2nd place in the demo is on!
More importantly for me (being a diehard “Lost” fan), hopefully “Lost” can capitalize on the huge “Dancing” platform and get some viewers to return to “Lost”. With the right promos, I think it’s very possible. Not that Lost’s ratings are bad, but it would be nice to see it do a little better.
Okay – lets figure this out – “Dancing with the Stars” or “Dancing with the Pretend Stars”…although the judges and the host put the name “Circus” in place of “Dancing” so Circus with the Pretend Stars is what it should be called…
Roll Call – who’s a star -and- who isn’t ???…
Belinda Carlisle – YES /STAR – had more than one hit – big Career with GoGo’s and solo- millions sold.
David Allen Greer – Eh – OKAY / STAR – funny guy – people know him.
lil Kim – okay / STAR – popular – crappy music – Millions sold.
Giles Marini – NO / PRETEND STAR – he’s a glorified extra in TV shows.
Ty Murray – NO / PRETEND STAR – he’s the husband of Jewel (the real star) and a Bull rider? COME ON!?
STEVE-O -how about NO-O / PRETEND STAR – director of “Jackass”? – nuff said.
Denise Richards – YES/ STAR – she hasn’t done much lately but you know that face.
Melissa RyCroft – NO / PRETEND STAR – dissed on being on the BACHELOR show from another loser – popular today – in a year from now who’s gonna remember her?
(Melissa replaced Nancy O’dell also a PRETEND STAR from Gossip TV show.)
Lawrence Taylor – NO / PRETEND STAR & YES A STAR – Without his resume and away from N.Y. – whos gonna know his face?
Chuck Wicks – NO / PRETEND STAR -(maybe soon though) one hit wonder country boy is still opening up for other acts – without his CD near him and you ran into him at Walmart you wouldn’t know.
Steve Woznaik – NO /PRETEND STAR – okay great he designed great Apple stuff – but…again see Walmart comment above.
Shawn Johnson – YES / STAR – and the most well known current star – half the world has seen her face in the OLYMPICS and on countless specials and tours and supermarket products -and more generations know Shawn than anyone on here– good kid and a rememberable face…I’m sorry she has to face the “Clown of Judges” panel.
- okay more stars than usual – but the Judges and Host need to go – really!
if castle can stay above a 2.5 all season, im betting itll be back next fall. at the same time, if Life (just for instance) was able to switch networks, and it aired after DWTS, what kind of numbers would it get?
Thanks Julia, still doesn’t make complete sense to me, but then I suppose other people aren’t as into their TV shows as I am!
Seems like the only thing really working for ABC is reality shows… DWTS every night for now on!!! wouhou! AI is gonna be jalous
RG, we know, we get it, you hate DWTS. Get over it.
Jack Donaghy would say that Bachelor woman going on to DWTS was excellent synergy. Next weeks numbers will tell more of a story though, and DWTS was up like 20% from the last cycle in Adults 18-49/
Save Chuck….Save the world. Screw Heroes.
The problem is that DWTHBS (Dancing with the has been starts) is now Dancing WIth The Has Been and Never Was Stars. But it is pulling people. How does NBC think any scripted show can survive with the crap reality shows it gets thro=wn against. First we had American Idol now DWTS. Help! I have never watched American Idol and I find it amazing that a show that fails with virtually every “winner” (only 2 or 3 have ever been successful…the runners up seem to do better) still pulls in monster ratings and a really well scripted show like Chuck falters. And don’t even get me started on The Bachelor! Only 2 out of 11 have stayed together…but still gets ratings.
The American public cannot be that lame.
Every time I see Castle mentioned, it makes me think of Chuck’s Castle and I get all depressed all over again, lol.
One other thing…I liked the premiere of Castle but since Nathan Fillion is in it you know it won’t last…he seems to have this cancellation button on shows he has been in. Too bad…he is so much fun to watch.
sadly Rick, the American public is that lame…
another great “24″ last night – more unexpected stuff!
still 11 episodes to go— woohoo!
castles retentin was inline or better than samantha who
Julia – I know you laughed – come on !!!
Wow, I just noticed Heroes demos. For a show that is kept alive solely by its demos, coming in FOURTH out of four real networks cannot be good. I mean, no half hour breakdowns yet, but did Heroes really lose in the demos to Rules of Engagement? Omigod. How can Ben Silverman even show his face at the Network Head Honcho’s Gymnasium for a spritz and a slap anymore?
And how is that Castle’s numbers are being considered a near death sentence when they are pretty close to Heroes in the demo and infinitely better in the overalls? Even when you strip out DWTS, Castle’s demos are going to end up being nearly equal to Heroes.
Oh, wait, ratings equal to Heroes. I keep forgetting that is not a compliment.
I love that it NBC renewed it, however. Watching NBC is like watching the Titanic. It truly taught me the meaning of the word “schadenfreude.” They will regret this renewal before they even get to the end of this season, let alone when they end up canceling Heroes after episode 5 next season.
Death to Silverman. Well, you know, professional death anyway, not actual Jack Bauer shoot-you-in-the-head-so-you-can-die-like-GenJuma death.
See, Ant, I do watch. I got nothing better do on a Monday night. Besides, how could I get so angry at the stupid show if I wasn’t watching it in the first place.
It’s not so much about retention with Castle, because as with AI there is no real reason to scrunch your nose at 50% of the DWTS audience, it’s more that even though retention was poor Castle numbers are still inflated by the huge lead in and already it cannot afford to lose anymore. That’s bad. Both DWTS and Castle are going down next week, they always do after premieres, and that cannot be good for Castle.
Also, whoever said Castle was programmed badly where it was, because it appealed more to women and younger people? That’s actually why it was programmed very well behind a 6+ demo show about dancing. At least the part about it appealing to the youth was obviously bogus, it’d be interesting to see ABC say something about the women demos.
stop the 24 bashing its the most entertaining TV show right now sure it isnt very realistic but thats the fun of plus they still have great twists i was really surprised that the first daughter Olivia is the real villain of the season
It still amazes me that people are both surprised and angry that reality shows continue to do well, seriously folks come to terms with it. And its not like the scripted shows die when put opposite these shows, NCIS is doing fantastic numbers opposite Idol, Lost has held its own when its been up against Idol. House still pulled very impressive demos last night and if I wanted to think about it a little more the list would likely go on. Reality shows don’t kill off great shows, they kill off unpopular shows and as good as something like Chuck might be its just not very popular.
Do you for example seriously believe that a significant number of the Dancing With The Stars audience would watch Chuck if DWTS wasn’t on? I don’t.
Its also worth pointing out that these reality shows that are ‘the worst thing to happen to television’ have also created some major scripted hits as well thanks to massive lead-in numbers.
The problem and its a big problem with airing Heroes on Sunday is its a competitive slot and veiwers need to be in a groove: such as Heroes fans now watch TV on mondays.
Take in the UK:
The BBC has switched Heroes from a Wednesday where it pulled an average of 3.7 million veiwers (including BBC3 pre-airings) however when it was moved to Monday 9:00pm it only had 2.6million (something around there) tune in for the first episode and around 2.5-7 for the next few. What I’m trying to say is most veiwers watch on a day and find a show to be best for them: they don’t watch on the day for the show but the show for the day.
Another example is T:SCC.
Paul, if Chuck moved to Fridays, I’d guarantee it would die a slow and painful death.
I love the people who are shocked Heroes hasn’t been cancelled yet, when it has the best numbers in the NBC Monday lineup.
At least you “HEROES” fans can relax a little – NBC is doing season 4 !
and 24 is back next year already for us 24 freaks! Go jack!
Alex if you were on the chuck board last night you wouldnt belive how many new members showed up.So id watch your words kindly around here with the fans of all shows even dancing with the idiots.
CHUCK is the best thing on television nowadays…..how can NBC justify not renewing it (IF it is not), but yet renews HEROES, which seems to fall lower and lower each week. The costs to produce that show have got to be extremely high, I would think much higher than CHUCK.
Oh apparently Volume Five of Heroes is to be called ‘Redemption’
I realize that network heads do not plan their schedules to accommodate me, but I wish “Dancing” could be moved to 9. Even with the use of a DVR, juggling “House,” “Secret Life,” and “Dancing” is getting to be a pain in the neck.
From Alex “in general I suspect the people that are sticking around are doing so for the reason’s you dislike the show – its complete and utter absurdity.”
Um, No… but thanks for playing.
Alex, I don’t know. I’ve seen quite a few interviews with Qeefer and the other 24 people. They seem to be taking the show pretty seriously to me. I think they think they are doing high drama. They also seem to be making the political statement that torture is pretty cool and almost always necessary. The girl from Jericho should have called that unconscionable.
If it was as totally camp and over-the-top as some people thing it is, I probably would like it. I just think it is bad, as I said, in more of a Mystery Science Theater way.
Now if they had Crow and the gang ripping on it from the bottom of the screen, then I’d watch.
Hey, that gives me a great idea for a web series.
can u please put the half hourly break downs for 24
And RG as bad as Heroes is doing (and I’m a fan of the show and even I can see its doing horribly both creatively and numbers wise) its still one of NBC’s biggest scripted hits so it was always difficult to envision a situation where it got canned, which probably says more about NBC than anything else to be honest. I’ve said before (and I stick with it) that they’re keeping it because frankly sometimes its better the devil you know – there’s no way NBC is going to be able to put another show on Monday’s at 9 that does anything close to what Heroes is doing, which again says more about NBC than anything else.
Right now as horrible as it might be Heroes actually looks like NBC’s best option…
(Oh, and a word to the wise: It doesn’t look so good to post a picture of two people and put under it the name of only the man. I’m not usually the type to go around crying “Sexism!” — in fact, I hardly ever do — but that . . . well, let’s just say it doesn’t look so good.)
ahahahaha i can’t wait to see the demo of heroes drop below the 3.0 mark!
id say heros and chuck are the best bets.
Vader, Two things continue to surprise me, (1) Angst over Heroes considering that the NBC Entertainment Prez already said it was coming back, and (2) the level of animosity against Heroes from Chuck fans.
Chuck is getting better each week! Too bad about the ratings!
24 inspite of being Horrible last night Stood up well in the Ratings
Heroes is a goner for me , i dont see them coming back next season
“Alex if you were on the chuck board last night you wouldnt belive how many new members showed up.So id watch your words kindly around here with the fans of all shows even dancing with the idiots.”
Chuck is unpopular. Fact.
I know this is a fact because nobody is watching it.
It could be the greatest show in the world but its still unpopular.
If its cancelled it won’t be because reality television is evil and killing off scripted shows one-by-one but because nobody watched it and frankly I refuse point blank to buy the argument that DWTS and Chuck share an overlapping audience to any significant degree. Its also worth pointing out that if NBC axe Chuck I’m 95% sure it’ll be replaced with another scripted show so again reality TV isn’t actually killing off scripted shows here.
Fin if only you knew how contentious moving Heroes to Monday’s was internally at the BBC. There were specific reasons why it was done but they haven’t worked out at all – the shows dropped below 2 million viewers last week if memory serves me and whilst I haven’t seen them yet I suspect the numbers will fall again this week.
Bill, there are Heroes’ fans?
I know Lester’s fan. Chuck was GREAT last night!!
MistresinSpices, NBC has already said Heroes is coming back!
alex why all of a sudden you think everything you say is right.I trust rob and bills word not yours.So im taking what you say with a grain of salt.
24 is a joke. Someone referred to it as a “poor man’s ‘Damages’” last week, and the comparison made me lol. Actually, it’s quite the opposite. “Damages” is like a well-written novel, where each episode peels back more layers of the characters and more pieces of the story. It’s all planned well in advance, and the story twists and turns always make sense. 24, by contrast, is a cartoon. ANYTHING can happen, no matter how absurd or ridiculous. It’s like a “popcorn” movie: no substance, check your mind at the door.
“alex why all of a sudden you think everything you say is right.I trust rob and bills word not yours.So im taking what you say with a grain of salt.”
Travis are you seriously asking me why I feel certian calling Chuck unpopular because nobody is watching it?
heroes down, chuck sad, cbs solid, dwts is death to america, show following dancing doesn’t do well, fox good in demos blah blah blah… same same same
If Heroes does come back, I’m 99 percent sure that Angela Bromstad’s head will roll for that little SNAFU come September.
I know Bill…it’s ridiculous how much animosity there is from some Chuck fans towards Heroes. I think it really just has to do w/ jealousy. I know I’m jealous that Heroes has already been basically green lit for another season while Chuck hasn’t…but I don’t BLAME that on Heroes. I never thought Heroes was going to be canceled anyways… My fingers are still crossed for Chuck!!
Yea i am Alex.What give you a right to call a show unpopular when all you got to go by are numbers.The wondercons and other boards can prove your statement wrong.I just find it funny you think your all high and mighty just because of what the numbers say.
Mike, Bromstad’s comment regarding Heroes wouldn’t have been some off the cuff remark she made from nowhere. Its not like she went into business on her own and decided Heroes was coming back then and there regardless of what anyone else at NBC thought. When she said it was coming back it was because NBC had already decided to bring it back.
Keep in mind that these are NUMBERS. Sure 21.3 million viewers watched DWTS and 5.7 million viewers watched Chuck. So? Remember, these shows primary function is to attract Advertisers. Let’s say I sell Lexus automobiles, and I need to sell a $50,000 car. Where do I place my ad? Or, I manufacture Kellogg’s Breakfast cereal, where do I place my ad?
Ask yourself, what type of viewer watches DTWS and what type of viewer watches Chuck?
Do you want to place your ad for Lexus automobiles where 21.3 million non-buying customers of higher-priced items will see it? Or, would you like 5.7 million could-be-interested viewers to see it?
Remember, the main reason for a show is not the NUMBER of viewers, it’s the TYPE of viewers who see the Commercial.
Let me point this across i have no problem with heros at all.
“Yea i am Alex.What give you a right to call a show unpopular when all you got to go by are numbers.The wondercons and other boards can prove your statement wrong.I just find it funny you think your all high and mighty just because of what the numbers say.”
Because if the show was popular the numbers wouldn’t be in the toilet.
I don’t doubt the people that watch the show like it (and in some cases obsessively love it) but there aren’t anywhere near enough people watching to make the show popular and more to the point there have never been anywhere near enough people watching Chuck to class it as a popular show. Thus explaining why I call it an unpopular show.
Heroes (a show I like) would be in a very similar class, although its much better demo numbers save it from that fate right now. But when/if it drops down to the same numbers as Chuck it to will be an unpopular show that not enough people are watching.
Chris Fox, no one is advertising cars very much anymore. That’s why the TV business is in trouble despite having more viewers than ever.
But your point doesn’t apply here since there are almost definitely more people who would buy a Lexus watching DWTS than Chuck, based solely on the fact that it gets 3x the viewers.
Alex,
Chuck does well in the day after numbers(meaning online downloads from HULU and Itunes). It might not have the numbers of reality show crap but it is a very critically acclaimed show. The fact that these reality shows do so well shows the increasing stupidity of people in the world(especially America).
Sorry everyone for getting heated on here.Sorry Bill and Rob.
Ummm I said NBC has signed HEROES to another season—
Angela Bromstad is the President of NBCU Television Studio, so it’s not a stretch to say that she has a at least a “partial” final say on what goes and what doesn’t. Now Heroes is an expensive show, and it’s ratings don’t justify production costs, and they seem to be bound to keep going down, so if Heroes continues in production under those conditions at some point in the near future the Network will start losing money from it, at which point they’re likely to use Bromstad as a pincushion and pin it all of her because she made a poor business decision. And then, because no only Heroes, but seemingly most of NBC’s shows seem to be incapable of performing competitively, her head will roll.
Chris Fox, The problem with your number crunching is that DWTS still has more of the viewers advertisers want. Advertisers base a lot of their decisions on viewers 18-49 and, to a lesser degree, viewers 18-34. DWTS has more than twice as many viewers in both those demographics. They also like high-income viewers, but we don’t get numbers for that, so we can’t say either way, but given the huge difference in numbers, I think the chances are better than even that DWTS has more high-income viewers as well.
“Chuck does well in the day after numbers(meaning online downloads from HULU and Itunes). It might not have the numbers of reality show crap but it is a very critically acclaimed show. The fact that these reality shows do so well shows the increasing stupidity of people in the world(especially America).”
Yes and I’m sure the 20,000 people that watch the show on Hulu and iTunes will be the difference maker in whether it comes back or not…
Also if Chuck was on another night it would probably do much much better. But sadly it’s on Monday night where it has to compete with huge smash hit shows… House, BBT, HIMYM, etc.
Matt,
24: 17 Emmy wins: 1 for Best Drama, 5 Nominations for Best Drama
2 GG wins: 1 for Best Drama, 5 Nominations for Best Drama
Damages: 3 Emmy wins: 0 for Best Drama, 1 Nomination for Best Drama
1 GG win: 0 for Best Drama, 1 Nomination for Best Drama
Doesn’t even seem like a comparison right now to me.
Castle was a lot of fun. It’s the first show in a long time that I got together with a group of friends (guys and girls) and we all liked so much that we plan on getting together weekly to watch. Hopefully it will pick up some momentum, or at least stick around. As depressing as things are these days, it was fun to get together and giggle for an hour. Hope it sticks around!
“Yes and I’m sure the 20,000 people that watch the show on Hulu and iTunes will be the difference maker in whether it comes back or not…”
NBC does in fact pay attention to internet numbers. Also as I just said, it has to compete with other huge smash hits because it’s on Monday. Put it on another night and it would do better. I myself Tivo Chuck and instead watch BBT and HIMYM.
Chuck was great last night … too bad its ratings doesn’t reflect that. I wouldn’t worry too much yet, Chuck pulled 5.9 mil earlier this season and was able to bounce back. If it doesn’t, you can chalk Chuck up as another show claimed by the writer’s strike. Last season, Chuck consistency pulled in 7.5 million viewers and 3.0 in the demos.
As for 24 last night, in the final scene, why didn’t any of the agents bother to go to the room to see what was going on when there was a video/audio glitch? They stood there for like a whole minute banging at the TV set.
Yeah, everyone who watches DWTS is the scum of the earth and among the already few Chuck viewers there aren’t any no- to low-income students or anything. Seriously? There’s data collected for this and there are shows, apparently Boston Legal was one and apparently 30 Rock is one, that appeal especially to higher income viewers, but you simply cannot pull a judgement out of your ass by looking at the shows summaries, just because it happily coincides with what you believe already anyway.
Folks, HEROES has NOT been renewed for next season yet.
They’re in talks about bringing it back with a lower budget and lower episode order. So yes, dropping more isn’t a good thing for them. So if it can’t rebound next week it could be hurt even more.
haha…I’m loving all the passionate arguments in here LOL.
House is doing fine. It beat CBS.
What stupid logic, a show not doing as well as other shows does not mean it’s unpopular… it just means it’s not as popular as some other shows. Now if Chuck was not even getting 1 million viewers then you could say it’s unpopular.
Jimmy, the Emmy’s are not a barometer of quality.
24 is, in fact, ludicrous. You can like it, and I have no problem with you liking it. Good for you. But the storylines are implausible at the very least, and laughably absurd most of the time. I can only enjoy it when I “check my brain at the door,” and this season is making that harder and harder to do. The ole’ Jack-framed-for-a-murder-he-didn’t-commit ploy they pulled last night (after the ridiculous White House invasion) was really the last straw for me. I can only turn down my I.Q. so much while watching a show before it no longer seems worth watching.
Ok since I am a CHUCK fan and I hate those numbers but compared to the other networks the drop off was expected, not sure if the daylight saving’s hour had an effect but that and with DWTS starting up CHUCK lost 1 million views and .4 in the 18-49 demo from last week. Big Bang lost 1.5 Million and .3 off the demo from last week. House lost over 2 million and .6 off the demo and HIMYM lost 2.5 Million and .7 off the demo. So even though I hate to see CHUCK below 6 Million and below 2.3 in the demo it went against its toughest completion and in my opinion the toughest time slot in the week and hopefully this is the worst we will see. I know the DVR numbers don’t mean much when it comes to advertising but it does show that people are watching the show so hopefully they will be high when they come out.
From Chris Fox >> “Keep in mind that these are NUMBERS. Sure 21.3 million viewers watched DWTS and 5.7 million viewers watched Chuck. So? Remember, these shows primary function is to attract Advertisers. Let’s say I sell Lexus automobiles, and I need to sell a $50,000 car. Where do I place my ad? Or, I manufacture Kellogg’s Breakfast cereal, where do I place my ad?”
Well in the case of LEXUS that answer would be they air their ad on 24 as they have been and continue to do this year.
Chris Fox, in broad terms the adults 18-49 demo is a very good indication of the “advertiser value” of the show.
However, we do see somewhat more detail than we publish for these overnights (because of simply time and space concerns), but for last night DWTS had the most viewers in all of these categories:
Adults 18-49
Teens
People 12-34
Adults 25-54
Women 18-49, 18-34, 25-54
Females 12-17
Males 12-17
Plenty in there for advertisers to love. Your “DWTS isn’t interesting to advertisers and Chuck is” contention, is simply wrong.
“NBC does in fact pay attention to internet numbers. Also as I just said, it has to compete with other huge smash hits because it’s on Monday. Put it on another night and it would do better. I myself Tivo Chuck and instead watch BBT and HIMYM.”
Unless a few million people are (legally) watching Chuck online NBC doesn’t care and believe me a few million people aren’t watching Chuck online every week.
This week 5,690,000 people watched Chuck.
Lets be generous and add in online viewing figures of 60,000 people that takes the total Chuck audience to…
5,750,000
Now I know total audience is ultimately meaningless but lets be honest here that Chuck demo isn’t jumping up with that kind of difference is it.
PEOPLE WHO WATCH REALITY SHOWS ARE JUST STUPID PEOPLE WHO CANNOT DEVOTE THE ENERGY AND BRAIN ACTIVITY IT TAKES TO FOCUS ON A TV SHOW…I AM SICK OF REALITY AND THE IDIOTS THAT SPEND THEIR TIME WATCHING THEM.
DWTS crush the competition last night…
In my opinion only 24 and rules of engagement did well last night against DWTS!
Bill Gorman,
Do you also get high income viewer data breakdown? I remember reading somewhere that part of the reason for 24’s high per minute ad rates reflects some high end advertiser desire for this market in part.
Heroes? Wow, is that getting or what. I only half watch it during “24″ (still fairly solid) and dont see any reason to DVR Heroes judging by what I saw. Hopefully they will wrap it up with 13 episodes this Fall or next Winter.
As for Chuck. It should end up cancelled with numbers that low. 2.0 in 18-49 is really bad. And blaming “strong competition” wont help – if a show is great and enough people like it, they will watch it. Of course NBC is in such sad shape, maybe they will keep it around the way According To Jim refused to go away.
RG:
Enough already of your “Circus with the Pretend Stars” bullshit! Don’t you realise that most of us on this site are the same people day in and day out? We didn’t think it was funny when you started it, and don’t think it’s funny now after your one millionth blog bashing the show. Can you please stop obsessing over that show that you claim to hate so much?
We all know you love “Dancing With the Stars”, so why not just admit it and get over it. It’s time to come out of the dancing closet
In regard to all the talk of “show popularity”: a show’s popularity among people (total number of viewers in X category) isn’t always comparable to its popularity among advertisers/marketers (total number of viewers in X category that my product appeals to). to put it simply: ratings dont always equate to sucess. viewers have to be the RIGHT viewers, they cant be ANY viewers. this is why total viewership numbers are worth very little, and even total 18-49 or 18-34 data is not enough. now, those demos give us a fairly strong idea of the strength of a show, but for advertisers who study this stuff, those groups must be broken down by gender, lifestyle, income, geography, etc etc etc. if it were simply as easy as total numbers, everyone of us that posts on this site could be a marketing expert.
Matt..do me a favour…quit when you’re behind.
Do you actually realise how hard it is to draw out a terrorism plot over 24 episodes each within a one hour day? 24 has some of the best writers/producers in the world. Hell didnt Spielberg even say he loves it? Even Tarantino says he is a huge fan.
Anyone who calls 24 ludicrous stupid because of the plot should be well i wont go there. Point is, anything that happens in 24, CAN happen in real life. It deals in real life fears.
Look at the two planes colliding together last week, the chemical attack on CTU heasquarters a few seasons back, the Iranians bringing in a nuclear bomb/
And you are telling me and the other 12m plus people who watch the show that that is ludicrious and cannot happen?
Hey guys, naysayers, and others—I don’t watch FNL, but I know there is a rabid fanbase. Michael Ausiello says its close to not one, but a two season pickup…
http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/03/exclusive-frida.html
I know this seems unlikely given the numbers, but Ausiello predicted the Ugly Betty pickup and was correct…as he often is…
WTF!?! DWTS was the most watched program among male 12-17. Are you kidding me? I guest they tuned in to just watch the skimpy ladies frail around.
Nick C, the likelihood of Heroes not coming back, after what has been publicly stated, is close to nil. Surely, being in the position you claim to be in – you know this.
“And you are telling me and the other 12m plus people who watch the show that that is ludicrious and cannot happen?”
I think its ludicrous and incredibly unlikely (to say the least) that one man would be at the centre of every single on of those incidents. I think its equally ludicrous that the man involved in all of those would then find himself in the White House as the last line of defence between a band of terrorists (who have broken into the White House) and the President. But perhaps that’s just me…? My read on the situation isn’t that the situations in and of themselves and ludicrous and never going to happen ever but more the way in which the writers handle them and resolve them are in fact ludicrous and ridiculous. Perhaps that’s just me though, although I personally think the ridiculous OTT nature of the show is by far and away the best part of it.
And the128boy unless every single viewer of Chuck is a high income trend setter (and lets face it they aren’t) then its never going to survive in its own right with a 2.0
Too much good television on Mondays. Someone tell the networks to put something on Tuesdays where there’s NOTHING to watch.
OkayFine, we do not get any income data, but it is certainly available to paying Nielsen customers.
128boy, while you are correct, the fact is that for purposes of advertiser show value and potential show longevity that the adults 18-49 demo (or in some cases 18-34) gets you 90%+ of the way there. The more detailed breakdowns are certainly required by people actually doing the buying and selling of the ad time, but for our purposes they are a conversational curiousity only. Except, potentially for the CW, who focuses on Women 18-34.
Yeah, Ant……sorry, but it’s ludicrous at this point, and would never happen. If you think it’s that easy to get into the White House, then I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in, lol. I told you how I felt when I watch it now (stupid), and so we’re just going to have to agree to disagree. I find it a joke at this point, and a complete waste of my time. If you’ve deemed it worth yours, more power to you. But throwing out the names of famous directors isn’t going to change my feelings about it.
So go on, enjoy it. I can’t anymore.
Agent Scorn, those boys were watching what their Mom’s were watching.
Alex, a 2.0 with the right viewers may be good enough on nbc. On cbs the show would be a goner, but its still to early to tell with chuck.
James, Ausiello may very well be correct. I have always maintained that more FNL was entirely dependent upon DirecTV’s willingness to write another check, which we have no insight into, but he very well may.
Alex..then i advise you never to watch a Stallone, Schwartzenneger, Bruce Willis, JCVD, Seagel etc film.
And anybody who actually watches 24, which i can tell you do not, would realise Jack does not do it all on his own. He has had help since Season 1. Tony, Bill, Michelle etc
Americans. We love you and we hate you. You make some great tv which I love but you never tune into the good ones. Twin Peaks, Freaks and Geeks, Carnivale, Firefly, Terminator and now Chuck. All these great shows but American Idol and DWTS become hits. Or repetitive crap like CSI, House, NCIS where every episode is the same. Don’t you guys like to think for once during a show?
I’m cutting you some slack because you’re also the guys who create the good stuff but for God’s sake, watch that instead of IQ lowering tv. Now I can totally understand how someone like Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian can become stars over there.
Oh, there is one exception. Lost. Very good show with good ratings. See, you guys CAN do it. Now do it more often!
The reason the people are saying Castle is DOA is because although those are normally good numbers, a show that was as heavily promoted and had such a huge lead in should be getting better numbers. Plus the show lost 3 million viewers in the second half hour. You have to keep in mind how many people tuned in out of curiosity and how many tuned in and hated it. Number usually drop after the premiere and that is what is concerning. If these were week 2 or 3 numbers it would be fantastic, but not premiere numbers.
Schmokey, yeah i’m a Heroes fan, so what? What shows do you watch?
Matt: They said that about the Recession. It will never happen. It did.
I would hate to go to a movie with any of the 24 bashers. Be like talking Shakespeare to a Hershey Bar
Also, Angela mentioning they’re in the process of bringing it back isn’t an official announcement of renewal. She could easily say “the negotiating process broke down, and HEROES won’t be coming back.”
Angela is pretty smart. She knows NBC can’t continue to bet on HEROES rebounding if it continues to spiral down. When it drops into the 2s in the demo (and it will) they’re going to HAVE to cut production and promotional costs by about 75%. The promotional part won’t be hard, but that means HEROES will come back without trumpets in an already downward trend. It’s the sign of death for the show.
It wasn’t a smart move to say they were in the process of renewal. It was bad, bad, bad. The show is bad, the ratings are getting bad. The downward trend hadn’t leveled off, and the show had yet to take on 24 AND DWTS. It was just a bad move. It was too early to make a statement like that.
HEROES likely will drop below a 3.0. Then what? Anyone think it could survive on CHUCK’s budget? HA! HEROES fans don’t want it to come back butchered. That will be worse than it just ending. They may not know that yet, but they’ll learn it.
HEROES is dead, it may be next Fall, but it’s dead.
Ant, now you’re being ridiculous yourself. Recessions are completely possible. Much of the stuff that happens on 24? Impossible.
BTW, stick to the show, not insulting other posters. You’re taking criticism of 24 way too personally for some reason.
“Alex..then i advise you never to watch a Stallone, Schwartzenneger, Bruce Willis, JCVD, Seagel etc film.
And anybody who actually watches 24, which i can tell you do not, would realise Jack does not do it all on his own. He has had help since Season 1. Tony, Bill, Michelle etc”
I’m rolling my eyes right now for three reasons
1 – Are you really trying to suggest that the movies of any of the men you listed are noted for their realism and accuracy? On top of that none of them have played the same character in seven (soon to be more) different movies getting into increasingly ridiculous situations so the point is really moot.
2 – Who is the one constant in every season of 24? His revolving door of sidekicks (most of whom essentially amount to giving him directions via a phone) really don’t make the fact that Jack is in the middle of every single one of these situations any more realistic.
3 – Did you just skip over the past where I said I thought that the ridiculous OTT nature of the show was the best part of it?
James, as I am arguing with Jimmy McAwesome currently, NBC is a bunch of idiots to even consider bringing FNL back. The strategy to just aim for breaking even or a tiny bit of profit, rather than cutting the fat at the network and going after hits, is what’s going to turn NBC into a netlet. Every show on NBC will be getting 1.1 in the demo, but have an outside investor footing the bill, so they’ll technically be profitable, but not even close to a contender anymore. RIP NBC.
What a bummer!! I can’t believe how much Chuck dropped. I love this show!!! So sad.
John T Folden, if it was unprecedented you’d have a case. Since Network Execs have long done the exact opposite of what they said they were doing just weeks earlier (including renewing a show) then your point is entirely pointless.
Lets point to Angela. This past season she has ordered a full season of KNIGHT RIDER. Then she canceled 5 episodes of the back nine. All done within WEEKS of each other. What on earth could have caused her to do that? Oh, right… RATINGS!
I will say this, right now 18 to 20 new episodes is looking a lot less likely to me, especially if next week HEROES drops more. That 18 to 20 will quickly turn into 13. When that happens, it will be the last 13 episodes of HEROES ever. It will get gutted and lose 50% of its budget minimum. It could still get canceled. If it drops to a 2.5 or anywhere near it, it’s not going to come back. That would be suicide to gut a show like that and bring it back if it gets that low.
nick c so your saying not getting annoucment early is actually a good thing for a show at this point.
Nick my read on the statement that Heroes was coming back was that NBC was trying to shore it up before DWTS came on air in the hope that a commitment to another season would stop viewers jumping from the sinking ship. That doesn’t appear to have worked although I’ll wait and see what happens with the next new episode before passing a death sentence, if it continues to fall then NBC are going to have to rethink their approach.
Despite agreeing with your basic point though I still think the show is back next year and was always going to be back next year.
wow… geesh people, do we really have to get this overly passionate over tv shows? sure I like chuck, but i dont blame heroes for anything… in fact heroes could say their numbers are down due to a non-spectacular lead in (not like TSCC/Dollhouse but still not perfect).
@ all thoes people who say reaility tv is killing scripted drama- if that’s what people watch, why would networks devote more reasources top shows that people won’t watch.
TVmegafan: try re-directing pointless hatemail like that somewhere else.
Alex is right in some ways, Chuck doesnt have 10’s of million of viewers, but one thing you can say is it has a much larger die-hard fanbase than a show like DWTS.
Remember folks, A wise person once said that
“It’s sad in a way, because really it comes down to the inability or unwillingness to differentiate between the following:
* Your show’s ratings suck
* Your show sucks
* You Suck!
If your show’s ratings suck, it quite often says absolutely nothing about the quality of your show, and it certainly doesn’t say anything about you. But some people react exactly as if it did, and at that point, unfortunately, they do actually start to suck.”
Travis, if a show is actually renewed, like a deal is signed and a certain number of episodes is ordered, that’s a good thing. If an exec just says “Yeah, it’s coming back, don’t worry” but there’s nothing signed, that is not as good a thing. Particularly if the ratings keep dropping.
Wow, DWTS hurt Two and a Half Men mor than I thought it would. Great news for ABC, good news for CBS and FOX, and bad news for NBC. What the CW gets is beyond bad news…
bill, that is basically what I was trying to say, but perhaps not very eloquently. the most excruciating statistical breakdowns are definately for insiders only, and i definately realize that (and they wouldn’t make for very juicy postings in this forum
)
I was simply trying to put my two cents into the “popularity” debate.
To me, “popularity” is a dangerous term to use in an environment like this (although not as bad as “a hit show”… *shudder*) Because if you use a term like that you have to say how you are judging “popularity.” And 99% of the time people don’t do that, but instead throw these words around as if there is some agreed upon standard of what it means. Do you mean popularity in terms of social awareness (total viewership would be ok to use) popularity in the college crowd (18-34) popularity among intensely rabid fanbases (chuck? terminator:tscc? lipstick jungle?). And there is nothing wrong with intensely rabid fanbases, btw, in fact I am a part of at least one
On a random note can someone clear something up for me, are Heroes and Chuck new next week or is NBC randomly airing repeats? Or something else altogether? It seems odd to me that they’d air original episodes against the start of a new DWTS and then repeats the following week… If you’re going to do that surely you do it the other way around?
Is it even possible at this point to renew Chuck over Knight Rider when their getting the same numbers. Same thing goes for Heroes. I know a few Heroes fans who were dedicated to this season during the first two seasons and stopped watching this season. Just end it or move it to Heroes.
DWtS may outlast Idol in the long run b/c Idol’s numbers are starting to get closer to DWtS numbers now. DWtS will always be fresh b/c they bring on new celebrities each season to keep people interested.
Castle ratings were what I expected. It wasn’t Castle that brought them down but CSI: Miami. ABC doesn’t realized the main reason why their procedurals or crime dramas fail is b/c of CBS procedurals. Castle should be on at 8pm like Bones and same thing with The Unusuals.
I don’t doubt Ausiello’s access insider info, but i have an extremely hard time believing that Friday Night Lights will see even ONE more season, let alone two (TWO?? are you serious? unless DirecTV made an absolute killing off of that show, they have all gone bonkers to commit to two seasons…)
And from the peacock’s point of view, even if this show was given to them for absolutely free, it has performed so poorly i can hardly imagine even THEM wanting it around for two more seasons. But who knows… they have certainly made poor decisions before.
Summer Glau most be happy to be in a high rated show lol.
I wonder how will One tree hill do next week when its back from its long vacation.
Alex, well I agree I always believed HEROES would be back. I’ve just thought it was a bad decision in a long list of bad decisions by NBC. It’s expensive. It costs around $4M per episode and nearly another $3M in promotions from what I hear. That is just too expensive for a show that is leaking viewers on a steady non-stop basis. So, sure you bring it back because the demos suggest you bring it back. It’s still one of your “best,” shows. That says more about the crap on NBC than HEROES. You bring the show back and you gut it. You cut 50% of the budget in production and promotion. You’re stuck with a show that is losing viewers and you’re going to be reminding people less of its existence. Plus the show will lose characters and FX. So it’s going to come back a shadow of itself in many ways. The writing has degraded from the start.
So now where is the show? It comes back a gutted version of its former self. That will likely scare more viewers away. It’s a no win situation.
Of course you could publicly fire Tim Kring lay it all on him, and bring the show back with a new man in charge that the geeks love. In fact, if I was Angela that would be my plan right now if they’re bringing it back.
They must have something to counter the upcoming gutting.
hot pocket, Chuck is still doing noticably better than Knight Rider. Last night’s dismal Chuck ratings were still two ticks better than the series finale of Knight Rider (which was up over many of it’s previous airings).
My apologies to Alex and Matt.
But i just feel that what 24 does for a unique show is very well done. They deal in real life situations but also what COULD happen. It is entirely plausible to do most of the things in 24. Hell, terrorists got arrested about 2 months ago at an airport with chemical bomb type stuff.
This season has been critically acclaimed and rightfully so. The intensity is back, the anger is back, the suspense is back and THE FANS are back. The average so far for the whole season is 13.09
Is there any chance Chuck might get picked up by a smaller network or a cable network? I could see it fitting in with the programming on USA or TBS….
I will just keep my fingers and toes crossed for chuck.Its one of the only network shows i watch.
Actually, Nick, modifying the episode order within a season is quite a bit different than talking up and then canceling additional seasons. As you probably know, or you would have provided an example for that.
Also, next weeks episode of Heroes is a repeat. Of course the ratings will go down.
Gary, there’s pretty much zero chance of that, though Nick C claims CW will take it. But it’s not completely ruled out on NBC yet.
Nick, sorry to be a pain man, but do you have the link where Josh says Dawn will pick up Chuck?
MWA.
I wouldn’t be too afraid for Medium.
It’s NBCs number one show.
Alex, NBC is airing all reruns next Monday. One reason they didn’t repeat this week may be because last night was and 2nd part of a Chuck two episode story-arc. Another reason is every single show this week on NBC is new (to help promote two series premieres: Chopping Block and Kings) and next week are all repeats.
Jocor, what measure are you using where Medium comes out on top?
HEROES IS BACK FOR SEASON 4…LINK TO DARK HORIZONS WEB SITE AND STORY:
http://www.darkhorizons.com/news/13471/-heroes-will-soar-for-a-fourth-season/
can i just say i cringed with Nick C saying heroes is dead because of its number and demos, when someone says this about dollhouse we get C3, remote free t.v and DVD sales that haven’t even been released yet thrown back.
its odd how Nick C can see the end in a show based on numbers and demo’s going down, but with dollhouse everything else is in consideration as to its future with its downward spiraling numbers and demos. im no heroes fan, but if DVD sales are to be taken into consideration with dollhouse, then surely they would with heroes that sells a bucket load of DVDs, not to mention its success over seas in places like the uk in which it gets a large chunk of money.
heroes is struggling, but NBC is in no position to jump ship from something that not only gets them above a 3.0 in the demos on a very tough night, but also brings in money from overseas.
heroes will be back next year, deservedly so when its numbers are compared with other scripted NBC shows, as to what they want from it next year the shows future will lie.
Julia, perhaps the #1 scripted show beginning with the letter “M”?
HEROES IS BACK FOR SEASON 4…LINK TO DARK HORIZONS WEB SITE AND STORY:
http://www.darkhorizons.com/news/13471/-heroes-will-soar-for-a-fourth-season/
R.G. How is that different than the 5 day old story on our site? http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/03/05/nbc-exec-heroes-definitely-back-for-fall/13983
Bill and Rob when do you think nbc will come out and say whats all coming back and whats not? Because not hearing anything on chuck is starting to wear on me.
Too bad about Heroes. It was a good episode. John Glover was fantastic with Zach Quinto. Hopefully people will watch it on DVR, Hulu, Netflix, etc.
I wish they’d move it to Thursday night.
Travis, their upfront presentation is in early May. They will make their announcements either before or at that time.
ANGELA BROMSTED OF NBC ordered 18-20 more episodes for HEROES…
okay this is weird – I’m conveying info about a show i don’t even watch -lol
but I will when they’re all done and I can watch them on DVD
Thanks Bill i hope Chuck makes the grade.I know knight rider is a goner but i enjoyed this season no matter what anyone says about it.I will keep my fingers crossed for chuck.
Bill…I keep seeing posts on here saying Heroes hasn’t been renewed – I figured if they don’t believe me and your site – why not get another post…sorry…hope I didn’t break any rules
R.G no rules broken, just duplication.
The beauty of 24 isn’t plotting or realism. Who cares? It’s the drama of watching these characters make some of the most regrettable choices imaginable simply because it’s necessary. In season 1 Terry Bauer let herself be raped so her daughter wouldn’t have to be. In season 2 George Mason who found out he was dying within minutes of the first episode due to radiation exposure ended up sacrificing himself knowing he was going to be dying in hours anyway. In season 3, Jack Bauer had to murder Shapiro simply because the terrorists demanded it, and this was only after Shapiro couldn’t pull the trigger himself. We watched every agonizing moment of him knowing he had to die up until the point that he was dead. And the way the characters, particularly Jack Bauer have to deal with these actions is the magic of 24. People that bash it for being pointless don’t see the big picture I feel.
JT – I’m just having some fun – but I think I’ll back away from the CWTPS—I mean CWTS – I see it’s upsetting some bloggers who love the show – so I’ll talk about something we don’t cover enough…
like………I know – does anyone think THE SARAH CONNER CHRONICLES will return next season?
The FNL “2″ season renewal does come off as a surprise – unless it’s really 2 batches of 13 episodes filmed back to back and aired over two years.
And to reiterate, Heroes’ problems have little to do with DWTS – they’ve aired against each other often enough. No, the problems are a) Heroes’ bad writing and b) another action show in the time slot not in their worst season (the last time 24 & Heroes went head to head).
Heroes Season 4 might still be profitable, but only if they keep it away from other action-related competition. (And, you know, canning/”promoting” Kring and putting Fuller in charge.) Which kind of puts NBC’s Jan-May scheduling of Heroes in a poor light.
R.G., that’s what we’ve all been talking about. NBC is in talks but there’s nothing official.
A lot of critics are pointing out that this is the best 24 season since Day 5. Of course they could flop in the final 11 episodes so you never know, but so far I think it’s been great, but then again I’m good at separating TV from reality.
I think Cherry Jones’ “good thing are show is a work of fiction” statement in the commercial was a well placed line at the people that are criticizing it because it’s not realisitc.
In the world of 24 America has been attacked significantly several times in like 14 years or so. In real life America has been attacked one time in this last decade. The show stopped being realistic awhile ago. It won an Emmy for having a over the top plot.
You may not like a show, but just because your a fanboy of another successful show, you don’t need to bash another one. I dislike DWTS, but people watch it for a reason and I don’t think it’s because it’s bad. I liked Heroes, but that show is losing it.
The irony with all this 24 bashing is it didn’t lose it’s Day 7 audience. It’s ratings held strong at the 11 to 12 million mark and 3.5 in the demos. That’s not bad for a show in it’s 7th season that had a year off after a season that was a nightmare to most. It must be doing something right, but we’ll see. Like I said 11 more to go yet and another 24 next year.
First, sorry for a double post.
Next, Julia…
The point is, Medium, as great of a show as it is, is getting TERRIBLE ratings. On the bright side, even with it’s TERRIBLE ratings, it’s at least beating out NBCs number one show — Heroes … and this is looking at total viewers of course.
So the point isn’t that Medium is number 1 … it’s really just a comment on the absolute abysmal patheticness of NBC. Bet they’re regretting cancelling Las Vegas now. A-holes.
Travis, yep KR is a guilty pleasure but still loved especially after the improvements. Hopefully NBC realizes it growth has potential and put it on Friday or Saturday next season for a mid-season pickup.
the128boy, Chuck is the better ratings show especially in terms of demos but I’m not sure if its doing that much more better than KR for a renewal. I think if cancel one you cancel both.
Julia — oh – I see – I read it again – it’s kind of funny how they put it too- it says: They “CONFIRMED” that they’re “PLANNING” on ordering more HEROES episodes.
“Confirmed on Planning to order…?” why release a statement like that -??
It would be interesting seeing AI against DWTS, on the same night. I wonder of they would be affected by each others…
By the way, does anyone know why Fox never hase any show at 10pm? NBC, ABC and CBS pretty much always has something.
You guys & gale in here are pretty cool – thanks for putting up with me…
ooops – gals (arrghh – spell check!)
24 is really such a love it or leave it show. Seriously, if you hate it, just watch something else, it’s not the second coming.
As for unbelieveable, over top and impossible, give me a break, it’s television. It’s one awesomely ridiculous approach at entertainment and if you are only ever into realistic TV, then by all means stay far far away from it. Census shows though, that some of you really enjoy stuff like Lost, Terminator, Chuck, Heroes, etc. How into realism can you really be?
Ohhh – I don’t know why I didn’t notice this – does DWTS get numbers like A-IDOL…can you do a comparison (sometime?…not now)?
Sam…..
I read that Fox didn’t have anything in that slot because when they first started there was a specific definition of what a network was and programming fewer hours would make them NOT a network. Somehow that saved them money — I don’t know if it was taxes or what. And now I feel I should have just waited for someone with a better answer to answer this, since I felt more sure of myself when I started. Anyway, that’s what you’ve got for now. Assuming someone doesn’t beat me too it.
Jocor, Heroes isn’t NBC’s #1 in anything either. But the demo is all that matters.
looking at the promos, i thought Castle was a waste of time, but I actually enjoyed it last night, they caught my attention for atleast 1 more week. and as for its ratings, I think 11 million viewers is definitly good for survival, but it has to consistantly stay there, if it dips below 10, bye bye.
all the data is here for you to go to the comparisons, sadly it’s not really much easier for us to dig up the data than it is for you to go do it yourself. Off the top of my head though DWTS numbers are very impressive, Idol is noticeably more impressive, particularly in the demos.
Thanks Robert
I think chuck still has a chance to come back but like the guys said on here before alot has to happen for it not to come back.1 of them wasnt bad ratings but performances of the new shows being one of the factors.
I haven’t watched Chuck since the Christmas finale, with all the rumors around that time that it will be getting cancelled, I just gave up on it. But since people are saying it’s been the best that it’s ever been, I may consider buying the DVD.
Now, about HEROES. Yes, Volume 3 was horrid. But this Volume isn’t bad at all! In fact, I dare say that it’s also better than Season 2. I think it’s just that the people who watched Volume 3 who gave up on it thought it wouldn’t get back in shape, even though it did. Anywho, here’s hoping it will improve. Btw, the promo for the episode in 2 weeks looks amazing.
230 posts in 3 hours… that’s gotta be some kinda record.
Is NBC seriously trying to get people to stop watching them altogether? seriously? an entire week of rereuns. geesh, the CW might just not be in last place next week
djm thats the way it looks doesnt it.im still optimistic about chuck
RG, please go back and read the link you gave us. Tell me how “plans to,” is renewal. A renewed show is under contract. Angela is planning on bringing HEROES back and we all knew this was likely.
John T Folden, how about ABC last season with that James Patterson based TV show “Murder Club,” at a very similar event around the same time last year their President said they were planning on bringing it back. I couldn’t help but notice I haven’t seen it on the schedule this season.
Saying you’re planning on bringing something back in a short order (18 to 20 vs a full season pickup) is not written in stone.
Nina Tassler said they were considering bringing back MOONLIGHT at one point. How did that work out for their fans?
What about Angela talking to others just yesterday about DAY ONE “replacing,” HEROES on the network’s schedule for next fall? That is a strong word.
Porky hit it on the nose about the ratings. 24’s have held up much better than I thought they would this season considering how badly it has been bleeding the past few years. That bleeding seems to be slowing, though. Of course, it’s also a very expensive show to make, so it needs better than average ratings, but it’s also a big hit in the DVD market, too, so that really minimizes the damage. FOX is making money on 24, and it looks like they will continue to do so for at least another silly season.
It is stupid, however. That’s a seperate argument. It’s probably not an appropriate argument to make, but it just kills me to here people say how realistic they think it is. Of course, it could be that Any is just Queefer’s nine-year old kid, so I should really put that argument into perspective.
But, hey, there are more than six guys with handguns defending the White House. Several hundred guys actually. An entire army regiment, as a matter of fact, in addition to dozens and dozens of Secret Service agents. Of all the ridiculous scenarios 24 has used in the past(and they have used some doozies), this season is by far the most ridiculous of the ones I have seen. Pretty much every single thing in this season has been either highly improbable or flat out impossible. 12 guys drilling a hole into the WH and taking it over all by their lonesome is impossible.
So that is why I call the show lazy. You want to take over the WH? No problem, then figure out at least a semi-plausible way that it could happen. But, no, these writers and producers are just too lazy to actually plot something out. Just have some guys drill a hole, do some jump cuts, show a couple dudes getting shot—BOOOM!!!! the White House is secure.
But forget quality for a minute. This is a site about ratings. Shows don’t get cancelled because of their quality or lack thereof. Hell, they don’t really even get cancelled because of their ratings or lack thereof. Shows live and die one whether or not they make money (or, in some extreme cases, if they will make money down the road via DVD and syndication).
Money, people. That is ALL that matters. That’s why numbers for Heroes (which costs 4-6 million to produce and advertise) have to be higher than numbers for Dollhouse (which probably costs 75% of what Heroes does). Also, whether or not a network owns the show is an enormous factor. The reason Nick C is right about Heroes being in bigger trouble than Dullhouse is because Dullhouse doesn’t need anything like big ratings to make money but Heroes does.
In fact, if NBC were not historically low rated overall right now, Heroes would have been cancelled at midseason. The ONLY reason Heroes demos look good in because NBC has to compare them to all the other pitiful demos they are pulling everywhere else. They can’t afford Heroes at those numbers, but unfortunately they also cannot afford not try and keep Heroes alive, thanks to it actually being on of the highest demos their mediocre little network pulls.
Money, money, money is all that matters. Make money and you can stay. Lose money (or not make enough money) and you are gone. End of story. Quality, fanboy love, online numbers, fan club members, burning bushes talking to network execs—none of these things matter in the least.
Well, maybe some network execs do talk to burning bushes and do the things those bushes tell them to do, but that’s usually more of a drug problem than anything else.
Heroes will be back. NBC is too shortsighted to see that it’s DOA, and they can’t afford to not be shortsighted anyway. They HAVE to bring it back and just pray that it will reverse magically. Coming to grips with reality is not something the suits are good at, and so they will slash the budget to pieces and bring it back, hoping upon hope that it will succeed.
And you know what? At a smaller budget, it just might. Considering the DVD sales, if Heroes could just stabalize, it could stay on the air for years at a reduced cost. The problem is, it has so far shown no sign of stabilizing. The numbers keep dropping every week. If they do not stop dropping, well, then they will eventually reach zero. And trust me, no show can make money with zero viewers.
Well, except for According to Jim, apparently.
Look for a massive number of deaths the rest of the way on Heroes, and in the season premier next year. That will be a big part of the budget trimming, and might be the best thing for the show. Maybe if they pull it back and try to tell some smaller, more personal stories, the quality may improve and some viewers may return. This budget cut could be the best thing to ever happen to Heroes.
I think there is some confusion regarding NBC. TVguide.com says that only monday is reruns
Sammy01, comparing HEROES to DOLLHOUSE is just plain silly. They are two shows in the exact opposite situation. One is a show that started off huge in its first season and now has lost well nearly 66% of its audience near the end of its third season. The other is a show that is brand new. One is a show that was critically acclaimed from the start. The other is a show panned as much applauded, and never applauded loudly at that. One is a show that’s quality has dropped notoriously. The other is a show that reportedly improves greatly in its seasons second half.
So one show is on a non-stop drop of quality and ratings. The other is a show that is supposed to get much better in quality. The question about DOLLHOUSE is will it trend back up? FOX knows the quality gets better, so if the ratings get better after the quality gets better…
HEROES is also in the red. It’s extremely expensive. The only shot of going in the black right now for it is DVD sales. DOLLHOUSE on the other hand is supposedly profitable already before DVD sales.
HEROES costs about 3 times as much as DOLLHOUSE.
If HEROES was cheap like DOLLHOUSE, NBC would have announced it as coming back already with the other shows for a FULL season pick up.
Big Bang was AWESOME with Summer, hehe.
Not a fan of the show but I thought they did the episode very well. Loved all the Terminator references (and Firefly too)!
“It’s hot in here. Must be Summer.”
That’s awesome.
No,Nick, Fox doesn’t KNOW that the quality of Dollhouse gets better. It keeps telling everyone the quality gets better but it hasn’t shown the episodes to an impartial audience and let them judge.
Michael, actually you’re wrong. Yes, they’ve shown the episodes to impartial audiences. It’s called paneling.
Nick, sorry lol, but how do you know Chuck may get picked up by CW? Did she say it or?
So all these panels agreed that Dollhouse improves with episode 6? And if paneling is so effective then why do so many shows that the networks tell us will be hits fail?
chuck to cw?
Schmokey, 24 has always been far-fetched. Every season so far in 8 seasons has featured some of the most ridiculously far-fetched situations. But that hasn’t hampered the ratings, nor should it. 24 is not realistic, it’s ridiculous and everyone, even probably their own writers knows that.
But it’s still escapist fun.
Is it possible to limit best programs to internet audience (smartest and most educated)via catch-up TV, Hulu or sling and let worst programs, like TV reality to TV audience ?
DWTS a reality show? It’s a leg show with the mute button on. Professional dancers – of both sexes – are some of the hardeat working least appreciated folks in show business. And sexiest. Having said that, the ” drama ” and personal interest angle kills it for me. As promised, I watched Castle. Very mediocre script. But the female lead was very appealing. The male character was a bozo. It was fun to see Stephen Cannell (?) in a funny cameo. Nothing spectacular, but we’ll see.
Alan, actually, it has hurt 24’s ratings. Badly. They are off, what, 50% or in the demos from it’s first season? And the drop since the celebrated Charles and Martha Logan season has been enormous. Last season nearly killed the franchise it was so bad. I find this season to be worse, but enough other people don’t that the fall off has stablilized. But there has been a dramatic fall off in ratings.
From what NBCU has told the BBC (and admittedly I’m getting that information near the end of a long game of Chinese Whispers at this point) there’s a lot of internal faith in Bryan Fuller’s ability to turn the show around creatively that will hopefully bring viewers back through good worth of mouth. I would suggest that the way Fuller’s episode is being promoted by NBC (the trailer has the word ‘Classic’ and the phrase ‘As Good As Ever’ in it and it looks as if an incredible amount of money has been spent on the episode itself) that the future strategy pretty much hinges on Fuller turning the show around next season and if they were going to go with one man to do that Fuller would certainly be near or at the top of my list. In theory that may very well play into Kring being removed from the show, NBC and the Heroes production team have been putting Fuller front and centre when it comes to fielding questions about Season 4’s creative direction, whether that’s just a PR tool to get the hardcore fans to stay with the show and tune in next year remains to be seen.
If the show drops down to a 2.5 or lower before the end of the season (which is increasingly possible) then NBC really only have two options open to them – either they pull out of season 4 and I think that’s unlikely now unless the new shows debuting over the next couple of weeks hit big or alternatively they get rid of Kring and proclaim Bryan Fuller the shows saviour. They’ve so far (cynically or not) cast Fuller in that role and he does seem to be taking the creative lead for next year so the set up is there for it. We’ll see what happens.
Away from Heroes and on a Chuck not, as I said somewhere else the folks at Virgin (the UK broadcaster for the show) seem fairly confident that its going to be back for a third season, which says to me that WB are fairly confident it will be back for another season. Whether that season is on NBC is open to debate but I still think if the show isn’t on NBC next season then it isn’t on air, I just can’t see anyone else picking up – CW deals with the producers or not. Of course as a slight word of warning Virgin to tend to drink the WB cool aid, they were for example surprisingly optimistic about a third season for TSCC at the start of ‘09, despite the fact no one else was and I assume that’s down to whatever WB was telling them about the show.
I think a lot of people judge shows by their ratings, so if you said to someone you like chuck they would probably make fun of you for it since it’s so low in the ratings they think the show must be horrible. But in this case I don’t think it has anything to do with the show, before the strike the numbers were pretty good and even after the strike the numbers weren’t horrible. But these constant breaks between episodes is just getting out of hand. How can a show gain any viewers if it’s on for 2 weeks then off again for another week. Plus nbc isn’t exactly the network you want your show to be on if you’re hoping for promoting it. No one watches any of the other shows so basically the commercials they do show for chuck are wasted.
Nick C but you seem to think that heroes wont improve whereas dollhouse will, why?
if either shows quality did a big upturn my vote would be on heroes to have that impact on the ratings more, as people have fallen off the heores wagon (thus were willing to give it a chance to start with), whereas dollhouse has had poor ratings to start with so it hasn’t got fans to win back.
heroes is struggling but if it switched nights and simplified itself and upturned in quality, im pretty sure theres a large chunk of people willing to watch again.
you are basicaly willing to condem heroes to the dead pile because of its ratings falling, yet you are happy to give dollhouse a chance of turning round because the quality *might* improve, well it *might* improve for heroes to.
Ok alex we get it you love Heros quit beating us over the head with it.
I agree with Alex.
Problem is, nobody besides the hardcore fans know who Bryan Fuller is and nobody besides the hardcore fans will care that he is back.
Sammy I think Nick’s point is that Dollhouse is better position to improve over the long run than a show that’s been falling for two-years and is about to have its promotion and production budget slashed and he’s not wrong. Potentially Heroes can win its audience back from good word of mouth but traditionally its much harder for established shows to win an audience who have switched off back than it is for new shows to win an audience who have never watched over. At this point good word of mouth does more for Dollhouse than it would be for Heroes.
When shows trend downward for two-years they don’t usually start trending back up in a hugely significant way.
Schmokey,
Season 5 of 24 earned a 13.78 average.
This season of 24 has earned an average of 13.09
“Problem is, nobody besides the hardcore fans know who Bryan Fuller is and nobody besides the hardcore fans will care that he is back.”
That’s true, which is why NBC aren’t promoting the next new Heroes as Fuller’s return episode but as a ‘classic’ etc. The basic hope is that Fuller turns the show around and the word spreads that the show is good again and people tune back in to check it out.
CBS MONDAY Preliminary Sked: 2009-2010 TV Season
8 THE BIG BANG THEORY
8:30 Things A Man Should Never Do Past 30
9 TWO AND A HALF MEN
9:30 HOW I MET YOUR MOTHER (this may be CBS’s LAST chance at turning the show into a semi-hit)
10 CSI: MIAMI
As for ER (I believe its highest rated ep was 42 million viewers in season 3 or 4), it is still kicking because it has good writing, an amazing cast, and outstanding directing. I guess people are just jealous of the success CONTINUES to have. Tell me another current MEGA HIT TV series, besides CSI, that has been as successful creatively & commercially as long as ER has been? Grey’s Anatomy fizzled creatively after two seasons, so it will never top or match ER, and Desperate Housewives lost a huge chunk of their audience after one season. It has been on the air since 1994, and it is thriving? Go figure. When it comes to primetime TV, ER will ALWAYS be remembered for the success it is.
Ill just quietly sneak in and say I enjoyed both Chuck and Heroes last night…And with Fuller coming back to Heroes and writing the new episode that is airing in two weeks hopefully it may bring back some people. He was the reason the show was as good as it was in season 1. The promo for it looked really good. As did Chuck…Now Ill get out of here before someone wants to tear my head off for having an opinion of my own.
alex i would normaly agree, but its obvious dollhouse really isn’t expected to be a hit by fox, they have it on their worst night paired with a show thats canceled (or will be shortley). heroes may be bleeding viewers but i have much more faith NBC is willing to put the effort into getting heroes to upturn.
the fact that NBC people have said heroes will get renewed, keeps the fans that love it there and maybe some that have fallen off the impetus to get back into it as its not going anywhere.
for fox to get people to watch dollhouse is looking impossible, they seem to have no conviction in it, its on their worst night, if they really want to give dollhouse a chance and believe in it they would be renewing it now in the hope that these *quality* episodes upturn the ratings. as who wants to get into a show at episode 6 of what could be 13, but if it was episode 6 of the 1st season with a garenteed 2nd, seems like something i would want to invest my time and money in as a viewer.
i just find it funny Nick C defends dollhouse and thinks its numbers will improve, yet he basicaly said heroes was done for, when i know which network has more belief in its show.
Ok I’ve been defending heroes for weeks now saying its only going to get better, but i have to say the latest episode really sucked balls
Jenn we wont.Just some of us have strong emotions about our shows.Some love chuck and some love heros and some love dancing with the stars.Grant it i know i been a pain in the butt today to a few people on here.To them i would like to apologise.
a: I wish CBS would put HIMYM after 2AAHM, but if they won’t put a new show, they would put BBT.
Bill and Rob,
What can Chuck do to catch a break? Anyone watching it knows it’s a GREAT show. Just seems as though too many people are interested in watching celebrities screw up dance routines… What can Chuck do to get a boost?!
Someone mentioned tvguide.com above. I think it’s fascinating that TV Guide the magazine is no longer connected to that particular website. In fact, they now have their own “TV Guide” website, tvguidemagazine.com, where Matt Roush and other former tvguide.com contributors now blog.
Sorry if I sounded too serious, RG. I was messing with you a bit. I’m not even a fan of DWTS. While I don’t hate the show, I’v only seen it once or twice and honestly I don’t have the attention span to stick with it for long.
Ryan, what can Chuck do to catch a break? Turn itself into a dancing contest involving a group of celebrities? Just a thought.
Sammy I don’t completely disagree with you.
I can only speculate on what Nick’s chain of thought is but from what he’s said I think he’s subscribing to the theory that Fox just want to burn off the awful first half of this Dollhouse season and then look at getting people to watch the second half of the season where things get much better. Personally I’m going to wait to see what if anything Fox does with the second half of Dollhouse’s season before passing judgement on how they feel about the show. If Nick’s right then Fox will actively look to get people back on board/on board for the first time from around Episode 6.
Having said that its worth remembering that Nick is also working under the (probably correct) belief that the Heroes production and promotion budget is going to be slashed next season. Right now Heroes gets a lot of money spent on promoting it and if NBC dramatically reduces that to help make it more profitable then the chances of them being able to turn the audience around gets much slimmer. If you’re spending less on telling people about the show they aren’t going to come back.
Good Lord! Hurricane DWTS left alot of collateral dammage in its wake last night. I’m not surprised at the huge number though. Melissa Rycoft’s name was on everyone’s lips today at the office. And when voting last night, it was nearly impossible to call in votes for Melissa. Her phone line was slammed the entire voting period. I think we got in one phone vote but at least 26 online votes. She was amazing considering she had 48 hours of rehearsal time. Actually, that waltze was a stunner and I hope she’s added to the DWTS tour this summer if she continues to do well in the show. It would be awesome to meet her. Regardless, everyone did great. Even the dancers with alot of nervous energy, Denise Richards, Lawrence Taylor, Holly Madison, and “The Woz,” performed admirably. The whole family enjoyed it. It was such an uplifting 2 hours of tv. I hope it stays at 2 hours like the Bachelor show. And really can’t wait for the new twist to take place at next Tuesday’s night elimination where the two couples with the lowest viewer votes have a dance off for the right to move on to the next round. Awesome fun for the whole family!!!
Also, we really enjoyed Castle. Castle and the tough as nails lady detective make a great team. It was a fast paced, exciting, and witty hour of crime work. I judge all crime shows up against my favorites, CSI and Criminal Minds. This was right there. Although my fear is that it will do a Life On Mars and go into slow, boring, abstract nonsense mode. But I hope not.
Jimmy McAwesome: I said that earlier about 24 ratings. About how this season may prove to be its highest rated but i doubt it will get through
Im talking to my bedroom wall at the minute. Least , willingly, it will at least get something of what we are saying. Some people just like to badmouth shows for no reason.
alex, im of the mind that cutting heores budget might actuly help. heroes needs a serious thinning of main charecters, and its plots for said charecters need to be more intertwined. i admit i watch few episodes of heroes (though i did watch 2 last week) and it was just so discontorted, it was like watching 3 or 4 different shows mashed together with the only thing linking them is the fact that they have powers. only 2 of the charecters kept me intrested and they were only on screen for what 10-15 minutes an episode.
Sammy01, you’re right FOX has more belief in DOLLHOUSE than NBC does in HEROES. That’s why FOX is nurturing DOLLHOUSE, and NBC is in the process of gutting HEROES.
If NBC believed in HEROES, it would have a full season order already just like THE OFFICE and other shows that NBC trumpeted an early return on. HEROES isn’t getting that treatment. Instead they are not getting a full season order, have already been pulled from the Fall schedule for a new show called DAY ONE. Yes, HEROES will be back, likely with a later start so Fuller and company can properly retool the show with the new small cast, crew, and budget.
I have less faith in HEROES rebounding because I’ve never known of a show to lose 66% of its audience and ever rebounding. EVER. Someone fill me in on a show from the past that was a hit, dried up creatively and had massive audience abandonment issues that rebounded into a hit.
DOLLHOUSE on the other hand costs less than HEROES, is profitable, and airs on Fridays where FOX doesn’t need much in the form of ratings to renew as long as the show is profitable. It’s easier to believe a show with a 1.5 in the demo can rebound with word of mouth than a show that has been bleeding viewers since the final act of its first season.
HEROES could get better in quality. Heck, it would be nearly IMPOSSIBLE not to get better in quality. Its writing, characters, etc. are some of the worst things ever put to celluloid. It’s horrible. That is why it loses viewers the way it does. It started strong and created some truly enjoyable characters. Then Kring did what Kring does best. He destroyed something good. Fans invested some into those characters only to have them due outrageous things out of character. The show is text book “how not to write a story.” The plot drives the characters. The characters don’t drive the plot. It’s just bad.
When the majority of your work sucks, it’s hard to win people back after YEARS of offering horrible tv.
So yeah, I think DOLLHOUSE has a much better chance than HEROES. Because DOLLHOUSE hasn’t pissed on fans yet. HEROES has. For two years now.
24’s demos aren’t as good as it used to be, but viewership in terms of millions I think is higher than it was in other seasons. Day 6 saw a huge dip in ratings that weren’t seen since I think Day 1, but Day 7 right now has pleased the fanbase. I like it. That could obviously change though. I mean I personally felt that the first 10 minutes of last night’s episode should of been written as the final 10 minutes of the 2 hour episode. So I can get the lazy comment.
Of course Day 5 is the highest rated season, but that’s because it was the best. I mean it’s not rocket sceience. Day 6 started fast because of the hype created by the emmy’s. It didn’t deliver after the first four episodes.
24 is still a money making machine for FOX. Someone who works in advertising at the local FOX where I live told me that 24 and AI are the two most expensive FOX shows for advertisers to buy ads in so it makes money.
You can argue about the quality of show, but it’s all a wash because everyone likes different stuff. I personally think 24, Dexter (Showtime), and Lost are the best shows, but that’s just my preference.
Nick C, I do believe in all those examples the people in question used important qualifiers like “possibly”, “probably”, “hopefully”. I don’t remember a single case where they said it was coming back and then reversed it – certainly not Moonlight.
In this case, Bromstad was asked point blank if Heroes was a bubble show and said “No” and followed it up that they would order 18-20 episodes. I don’t see them reversing that. Lowering budgets seems likely and ordering fewer episodes goes towards that.
…and FOX most certainly isn’t “nurturing” Dollhouse. Nurturing is what they do for shows like Fringe or Lie To Me.
Final Numbers: http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63310451/m/543102491?r=152104491#152104491
Castle dropped to 10.76 million and a 3.0
John, Nick, I submit you are both right.
If the ratings level off where they are, I think Angela B. would have a difficult (though certainly not impossible) time wriggling her way out of it. But if it drops to a 2.5, she will easily be able to say, “The ratings deteriorated to such a level, etc., etc”
*Will order* is different from *Have ordered* and if the ratings don’t level off, and they actually haven’t yet…
Rob how nervous should some fans be about there show ie Chuck?
I’m thinking that Dancing With Th Stars will hurt The Mentalist’s momentum.
CORRECTION: I’m thinking that Dancing With The Stars will hurt The Mentalist’s momentum.
John T Folden, actually Nina said they were working out a deal. I don’t see how that is any different. NBC has not publicly made a statement that HEROES has been picked up for next season. That is the bottom line, and trust me if it continues to get worse it’s not getting 20 episodes.
Remember just yesterday she said it WASN’T coming back in the fall, and that ONE DAY would be replacing it on the schedule.
John T Folden, nope if they weren’t nurturing DOLL HOUSE they’d have thrown it out for the wolves to eat it. Instead they put it on a night where for the most part ratings don’t matter. It is rare for a show on Friday to do so horribly that FOX would care. TSCC has pulled that feat off, but allowing DOLLHOUSE to air the bad episodes out on Friday is nurturing.
Because they’ve stated IF it comes back in the fall it will be paired with BONES, and that likely means it won’t be on Friday.
Nick it’s far too early to say whether Fox is nurturing Dollhouse or not – you’re spinning the move to Friday one way when it could just as easily go the other way, some would argue that you don’t pair a show you’re nurturing with TSCC and then Prison Break on Friday nights. Dollhouse is however a wait and see, we’ll find out how nurturing Fox really is soon enough.
But since this is a Monday, on the subject of Heroes.
I don’t think anyone within or out of NBC can seriously expect the show to rebound to the numbers it was doing during season one and I feel confident saying that’s never going to happen. What I suspect NBC will be hoping for is that it can regain its footing to where it was at the start of this season, which isn’t out of the realms of possibility although I’d personally say it’s a long shot. At this point I’d say realistically they’ve got to be looking at getting ahead of 24 again, which isn’t a major ask right now. It might very well be by the end of this season but we’ll see what happens. Maybe they’ll finally level off now… And yes I know that’s been said for every episode this year.
From a business perspective I can’t explain why NBC are bringing Heroes back, I’m happy they are and I always confident they would but it doesn’t really make any sense beyond the comparison that Heroes sucks but the rest of their line-up really sucks but that’s not really much of a business strategy. Maybe they’re viewing Heroes as the only show (outside of maybe The Office, Biggest Loser and possibly 30 Rock) that has any real mainstream recognition and therefore think there’s value left in it because of that.
The retentionistas will have their long knives out for Castle!
Dudes, the kool-aid ain’t the good. Put it down and back away.
24 has leveled off at 11 million right now, not 13. And it’s demo has shrunk considerably from it’s high point, which at the moment I am too bored to look up, but it’s a hell of a lot higher than a 3.6 (a 5.5 maybe??–someone want to look that up).
Saying the ratings are dropping is not a personal insult aimed at you, nor even an indictment of the show’s quality, which admittedly does blow. It’s just a fact. It’s like if you live in Ohio, and I say, “It’s snowing in Ohio,” you’d say, “F-you, OHIO IS GREAT–stop knocking Ohio. Ohio can get up 95 in the summer—blah-blah-blah-blah.”
I get it. You guys like 24. Great. I shouldn’t probably interject my feelings about its quality, or lackthereof, but that doesn’t change the fact that ratings have fallen, especially in the demo, which you would think by now you would understand is the only number that matter. Networks don’t care if 30 million people are watching if they only get a 1.0 in the demo.
Well, they might care about 30 million, but they sure as don’t care about getting 11 million (or even you 13 that you think it’s still getting) when the demo is 3.5 and the show is the most expensive show on their network.
It’s about money, guys, not about ratings as a whole, and it sure as hell ain’t about quality. Good or bad, they don’t care, as long as it is green.
I still think Castle did well… all things considered.
Hey Travis, tell the Chuck fans to quit screaming about Heroes sucking and Chuck being teh bestet – we get it. Heaven forbid anyone mention liking Heroes, I guess it’s just “cooler” to bash it now. I wonder if the people who yell about it being the worst. show. ever. even watch it anymore? Chuck’s hardly freaking Shakespeare.
As for Heroes, if it can stabilize its demo, I can see it sticking around for S5. Especially with Bryan Fuller back, I can definitely be hopeful that it could be back to its S1 glory days.
That said, 3.5 in the demo is good enough. It’s also a lot better than I thought it would be at this point in the season. If it keeps that number up through next season, it will almost assuredly come back for another season after that, as 24 is a pretty solid DVD seller, or at least it was. I have not seen sales figures for the past couple seasons.
But it is worth noting that 24 is one of the most expensive shows on all of television, and so it damn well better keep up higher than average demos if it going to stick around.
It’s a miracle. We can’t escape a Dollhouse debate, even on a Monday.
Alex, by allowing it to play out with all 13 episodes, I say they’re nurturing it. Will it nurture into anything? That is too early to tell. However letting it play out was a nurturing move. If it aired with 24, it would be canceled by now.
Chuck needs to be moved to either Tuesday or Wednesday.
Will do Jane.As i said before even with some heated arguments on here.I have no problem with heros never have and never will.One of my friends actually does the online comic book of heros.So its not like im basher just trying to stir trouble.Im a true fan of chucks and im happy that your show heros got renewed.That is the honest truth and i hope chuck is as lucky to get a break even tho with nbc running things thats like swimming in cement boots.
‘Saying the ratings are dropping is not a personal insult aimed at you, nor even an indictment of the show’s quality, which admittedly does blow. ‘
Schmokey you’ve been slashing the shows quality this entire post, by the way when you think 24 makes money and give us actual evidence to it making barely ends meat then i’d beleive you but since 24 is an international hit, aswell as quite good demos: 24 is bound to make more money than say Dollhouse or Bones
But they haven’t aired all 13 episodes yet and there’s absolutely nothing stopping them from yanking the show if the demos continue to fall and putting reruns or game shows in its place. Like I said, its too early to say Fox is nurturing Dollhouse and you can spin what they have done in two different directions.
“Schmokey you’ve been slashing the shows quality this entire post, by the way when you think 24 makes money and give us actual evidence to it making barely ends meat then i’d beleive you but since 24 is an international hit, aswell as quite good demos: 24 is bound to make more money than say Dollhouse or Bones”
Its also more expensive than both of those shows so the amount of money it needs to make to be considered profitable is higher. Dollhouse and Bones can get lower demos (and I’m not sure if Bones actually does?) and still make more money Fox than 24 does because the 24 production costs are higher. With that said I doubt 24 is going anywhere anytime soon.
Bill, I don’t think you have to look at the retention to think that Castle isn’t looking so great. ABC shows have a tendency to premiere well then drop sharply. Even without the lead-in or that tendency, starting at a 3.0 isn’t great. If it can maintain that 3.0 or even grow, it will get a second season, but it can’t drop very much.
Besides, once DWTS goes to 1 1/2 hours and whatever comedy gets stuck at 9:30, the retention percentage will improve drastically.
Personally, Nick i think Dollhouse doesn’t have as good a chance as Heroes. Yes Heroes looses money when you look at it in terms of its got a high budget and barely breaks even but looses money from advertisemnt. Well its a huge hit internationally: unlike most comedies which have little international value. I.E 30 Rock (apart from say the UK). Anyway Heroes is the 2nd highest scripted show for NBC and at current demos proberly the 4th highest: NBC when all its new shows flop won’t pull the plug: if they cut the budget even if Heroes pulls in these numbers it will be a hit: if the budget becomes like 2.5-3mil then it will become more popular with execs. But the fact is none of the shows launched in the latest two TV years (excluding Chuck) have survived for NBC: what else do they have to loose.
Where as Dollhouse is not doing well on friday, isn’t showing signs of growth: doesn’t seem to have a great source of income from anywhere else (apart from minature ways of making money such as online veiwing and itunes). The ONLY thing that I think can save Dollhouse at this point are DVD sales which could be a possibility seeing as it has a big fan base (the whedons).
Thank you for being a sane Chuck fan, Travis, instead of a venom-spitting crazy one like some on this site. I’ll never wish cancellation on anyone because I’ve had far too many of my shows canned and I know the pain. At this point I’m wishing Chuck would get renewed so people can stop taking it out on Heroes. :/
Though I suppose it’s only natural that the “omgz heroes sux chuck rulez!” comments get more attention, I just want to point out that I think there is a larger number of more reasonable Chuck fans, myself included. While I’ll admit that my first thought at reading the news of what is essentially Heroes’ renewal was what it might mean for Chuck, I also have plenty of friends who watch Heroes and was happy for them that it got renewed.
Yourwelcome.ALso for being so nice i will check out an episode of heros just to see what its like.I think alot of people are stressed about the show and we all know what stress does drive some people looney.I appciate the nice words Jane.
By the way for all those Chuck fans slashing Heroes I think its unfair seeing as Heroes just has better demos and is better a gaining sales than Chuck (internationally and in ads). Chuck yes is suffering hard competition but so is Heroes: why don’t you slash The Office or 30 Rock.
But thats still unfair: but still i’m just saying
Trust me i had a few of the shows i liked canned.So were on networks that didnt exactly knew what they had and others didnt let it grow a fan base.Im defenly on the good side and Fin i agree some of us are defenly taking some stuff out on heros.Which i try not on here.Because im a good guy and dont wish ill will on anyones favorite show.Trust me if this was the 90s or 80s we wouldnt have dancing and idol to contend with.
Schmokey, it is actually cheaper to producer 24 than people think. This is according to Kiefer, or Queefer as you so eloquently put it,.
And yes..24 is a massive international juggernaught. It makes money. A LOT
If it didnt they would of ended it by now
Ok, I bite, I’ll do the Dollhouse debate even on Tuesdays:
Nick C, OTOH you state the ace up Dollhouse’s sleeve is that it does the best Friday numbers for a scripted show on FOX in C3 in quite a while (whoa, holy qualifiers batman) and that FOX will hold on to it, because the really want to make Fridays work, OTOH now you say FOX wants to move it off of Fridays and pair it with Bones. With <2.0 demo and <4 million viewers? It’s not that I am doubting you, but I am damn well doubting this. Which is it?
I watched Heroes for 2+ seasons and I wanted to continue watching it, but the show is not very good any more. I know Heroes fans are going to defend their show and that is good. But the reason Chuck fans slag it is because every critic in the business slags on it and pumps up Chuck. Just because Heroes gets better ratings, doesn’t mean it is good. In fact, it isn’t good anymore. Chuck, on the other hand, seems to get better and better. But enjoy the ‘victory’ for now. You have more people with bad taste watching your show.
I still can’t believe that 3 of the 4 shows I watch air at the same timeslot (House, Chuck, BBT) I hate that they have to compete, I want all of them to be winners. Dancing with the stars sucks
Well Travis, the next Heroes episode isn’t for two weeks now, but from the promo it looks amazing. Plus it’s written by Bryan Fuller, so there’s a good chance it’s going to totally rock.
Jack, how can you say Heroes isn’t good any more if you’ve stopped watching? It’s hard to form an opinion on something you haven’t seen. Villains did get convoluted and bad at times, but Fugitives has been a complete change and a lot of people who had problems with Villains have said that they’re getting back into it. The episodes they’ve been showing lately have been just as good as S1 IMO.
As for the critics, I think it’s the fact that it’s become a given to bash Heroes and no one wants to be the first to say they enjoy it again. Also, there are some out there who’ve been saying its getting better.
And “enjoy our victory”? Yet again, you make it sound like Heroes and Chuck are in competition with each other. I think Chuck is a good match for Heroes and hope that it’ll do well, to give NBC a reason to renew it so it can stay with Heroes on Mondays. Why don’t you focus on your own show instead of bringing another one down (especially one you haven’t been watching)?
Oh look at that, Chuck died. Damn. It’s been fun.
(I’ll believe that The CW agreed to pick it up when I see it.)
Jack: You are one of the people that give Chuck fans a bad name.
As a fan of both Heroes and Chuck, they are both written really well. I stopped watching Chuck after the Christmas finale, but that doesn’t mean I think it’s a bad show.
And critics lately have not been slagging it, on the contrary they have been having a lot of positive things to say about it (i.e. the improvement from the last volume). Now, I don’t know any critic that pumps up Chuck, in fact, it’s basically unknown, but that’s not Chuck’s fault, It’s NBC’s fault for its horrid promotion. It’s basically the fans that pump it up themselves (while beating on Heroes).
IF NBC has any sense they’ll move Chuck to either Tuesday or Wednesday.
Jane and Hudson i respect both of ya as fans of your shows and Hudson i say Heros and chuck is actually one of the shows i think critics love to watch.Even tho sometimes it seem they dont watch it exactly.But from the boards i have been on and watching nbc other shows it seems like chuck doesnt get the promotion it deserves.I say that in anger at nbc not any of you heros fans.If i were nbc i would move heros and chuck to a new night.Also Jesse please dont start anything i had enough arguments on here for one day.If you want to dance on a shows grave terminators is a prime canidate.Sorry terminator fans didnt mean to throw ya underneath this steam roller.But honestly some of you need to chill out and let both sides just sit and wait which is the case for us chuck fans which im willing to do.Sorry for the long talk in this reply but i thought i try and put a band aid on this war wound.
ted, the biggest loser will almost certainly stay 2hrs come fall. in addition, i think all the chuck fans need to take a deep breath here. first of all it bumped up a tick to 2.1 in finals, and second, what else is nbc gonna launch here with better numbers? monday night is extremely competitive and chuck still scores higher than half of nbc’s programming. monday at 8 the four nets had a combined demo of 15.9! at 9pm that bumped up to only a 17.9. needless to say monday at 8 (considering hut levels) is extremely tough.
If Life is canceled then Chuck could take over it’s slot on Wednesdays.
Day 8 is already confirmed for next year.
As long as 24 is making money, it’s going to be wanted by FOX. They don’t care how, just give them the money. That’s what it’s all about. Like someone said it makes money internationally and truthfully it’s one of the most recognizable shows in the history of FOX. Who would replace Jack Bauer on Monday?
Chances are a new show isn’t going to do better. Maybe Fringe and then get a new show to follow AI on Tuesday’s, but that’s at least two years away.
11 million isn’t bad by today’s standards. Non reality shows just don’t get that many viewers or should I say non reality shows that aren’t on CBS don’t get that many viewers.
24 will likely end when the writers and producers say so or when Keifer Sutherland says enough is enough. That could be Day 8, but my point is over the top plot and all, FOX will stay loyal to Jack Bauer as long as the fanbase keep watching which so far it has throughout Day 7.
I still think NBC should have moved Chuck midseason and paired it with Life on Wednesday nights in place of Knight Rider and just fed Knight Rider to the wolves on Monday’s. I know Chuck would then have been going against Idol but frankly I think Chuck and Life are a better fit together than Chuck and Heroes ever were and its just in general a more interesting Wednesday block.
On top of that I really don’t think the quality of Heroes lead-in was or is having any effect on its numbers so you don’t particularly lose anything by sticking Knight Rider there to die. Plus in theory you get an action block Monday with Knight Rider and Heroes although having not watched anything other than the Knight Rider TV movie (which was horrible) that might not actually work out in practice.
Unfortunately that unwatched Chuck/Life block wasn’t to be and the unwatched Knight Rider/Life block was instead… It sucks to be NBC right now.
ted, life will most certainly be cancelled, but (contrary to bill and robert) i see chuck moving to friday before a move to wednesday. although at this point its way too early to tell what is gonna happen with nbc other than 4 sitcomes on thursdays, 2hr biggest loser on tuesdays, and football on sundays in the fall… and of course a whole lotta Leno! everything else is up in the air as to where it lands on the schedule.
And my 24 prediction is this – it makes it to Day 9 at least.
Its past the point where the numbers are going to drop off now, if anything it might start building some momentum heading into the finale so Day 7 is going to be a success all things considered. With that in mind I think even if the numbers slide for Day 8, Fox cuts the producers some slack and lets them try and turn things around for Day 9 thinking that the retool worked once it might work again. I would however say that Day 10 looks like the perfect moment to wrap the show if they can make it that far and ‘the final day’ tag going into it would probably provide a jump in the numbers.
Of course I also think they need to think about introducing a new lead or at least not make Jack the centre of every season. I like Rene Walker and wouldn’t mind seeing them trying to build things around her a little more next year with Jack in more of a supporting role but obviously that’s never going to happen.
Where does this Chuck on Friday thing come from anyway? And why would any fan of the show want to see NBC move Chuck to Friday anyway? Lipstick Jungle (amongst countless others) says hello… and then goodbye!
Alex good point we dont want to send it wasteland.Wednsday sounds like a good spot for chuck.
alex, i never said i was a fan of the show or not. i simply think that leno taking a third of nbc’s holes in one fell swoop gives NBC the opportunity to reorganize there shows in such a way that they can aggressively go after fridays instead of it being a dumping ground for defunct shows and throwaway reality fare. are we all so quick to forget that Life was scheduled on fridays at the beginning of the season? and it was NOT because nbc didnt believe in the show. in fact, when lipstick jungle faltered out of the gate, life was comissioned to take over its much better wednesday slot. my point is that as recently as september 08, nbc was still trying to be competitive on fridays, but with their terrible slate last fall they again had to turn it into a dumping ground and try to shore up wednesday instead. with leno, they have another shot this fall, and although some may think im crazy, i think they will go for it again.
Well, Chuck went up a tad in the broadcast finals:
Chuck
- 5.796 million viewers
- 3.5/5 HH
- 2.1/6 A18-49
I don’t see how anyone can watch DWTS. It is seriously the stupidest show I’ve ever seen. I can’t believe that Chuck dropped so far. I bet the DVR ratings will do good.
Chuck will survive!!!!!!
Why does Schmokey keep watching 24?
He/she seems to be an expert on the program.
I think ABC will very patient with Castle, the reviews has been good and it’s a procedural.. unlike serials, they have far more stable audience. Also, I bet they are gonna be repeating the Pilot this Saturday.
heroes is like a dog hit by a car. its still limping, but its in massive pain… JUST ENDS ITS SUFFERING… SHOOT IT.
Now that’s an insane ammount of posts in such a short time. I just hope NBC’s available choices are that low that they will still renew Chuck + even though I think all this “move it to this and that night” talk is not really helpful, I consider the competition on Mondays to be kinda fierce right now. If a show however changes the day it is brodcasted on on a weekly basis just to see how it works it will loose even more viewers due to confusion. However though NBC execs don’t seem to be that popular here even they have to realize that Monday is not the best day to have a show on. While for us all this is more about entertainment it is their friggin job!
I hope Castle sticks with 11 million
NBC is so sad! 5 and 6 million with their scripted shows looks bad!
The promo of heroes 3×20 is great
It ‘ll be a epic episode watch this photo!
http://mrtheodi.iimmgg.com/image/9278c86154b80dd537ad0ddb365bbb9b
Bryan fuller directed it …..
PEOPLE WATCH HEROES !!
I don’t understand why ABC continues to make new shows, they all get cancelled anyways. They may as well just cancel castle now, save all of us (including me) the trouble of getting attached to the show.
For Schmokey, who seems to schmoking something potent…24s DVR numbers are normally in the 2ms. They had that
So yeah it is 13.09 so far the average
I’m a Chuck fan, and I also watch Heroes which I think is OK. But I also don’t understand the hatred for Heroes that Chuck fans have. If Chuck gets cancelled it won’t be because of Heroes, it will be a combination of the poor ratings, crazy competition and Jay Leno hogging 1/3 of the schedule.
In my dream world, this would happen. NBC would renew Chuck for 13 episodes and put in on Wednesday, after a few weeks if the ratings are still horrible they let the creators know the will not be renewing the show, giving them time to write an awesome series finale. But that will never happen.
idizzle, it’s just what I hear. IF it gets renewed they expect it to rebound and trend back up. Then over the summer there will be repeats and DVD sales, internet viewing, etc. They hope it gains some viewers. Then they throw it on behind BONES in the fall without AI. The hope being that the quality remains good compared to the stuff airing currently, and with a strong lead in like BONES they introduce more people to the show.
Then again they were talking about BONES on Fridays for a long time, so maybe they’re thinking of BONES on Friday again. They talk about it every year. Yes, I do hear the want to combine the show with BONES or FRINGE for the Fall if the show returns.
Could someone please explain to me why it always shows Two and a Half Men beating 24? That seems a little bit ridiculous.
so i’m new to these ratings and how you constitute what is bad and good… so Castle premiering with 11 million is bad right? but if a show averages 11 million after a while that is good? Because that’s about what Brothers and Sisters does and it’s considered a hit.
Matt, the most important indicator of how attractive a show is to advertisers is its performance in the 18-49 (year olds) demo. While Castle’s 3.3/9 isn’t bad per se, it’s often the case that shows will have a drop off in performance from the series premiere. In addition, as Robert points out in the post, the second half hour (2.9/8) was significantly lower than the first half hour (3.7/9) and this drop off was probably due to 2 minutes of Dancing With the Stars being included in the first half hour.
ljo, the final demo rating for Castle was 3.0, so if the 2.9 held, there was a slight drop off but not much of one.
Thanks, Julia. And, Matt, if you’re really interested in the ratings try Bill/Roberts Numbers 102:
http://tvbythenumbers.com/numbers-102
There is also a link in that posting to Numbers 101.
Ok, 2 minutes can’t affect a 30 minute rating. People tuned in for longer than 6 minutes of that 30 minutes, and then changed the channel. Which isn’t a bad thing, it was a new show. They didn’t know if they’d like it. They decided it wasn’t for them.
Nick? I’m not sure what you mean exactly. If they back the 2 minutes out and report only 10:02-11:00p (which they did) it seemed to account for three-tenths of an 18-49 point. So some people did bail immediately after DWTS was over, but that can hardly be a surprise. But judging from the half hour numbers from the overnight, what you say is still true — some people definitely stuck around for a while before bailing.
The Chuckster is in trouble. I feel like I am watching a reapeat of the “Arrested Development” scenario..
I am just going to enjoy the ride..
NBC marketing department should be fired. NBC, since the super bowl has been a train wreck in markting there shows..
ABC should just give up on creating new shows. Most of em’ get cancelled anyway. I say they should cancel castle now and just get it over with…it’ll save the show’s fans (including me) a lot of pain.
Ugh, I hate Dancing with the stars! Heroes is getting it’s game back so why is everyone abandoning it?
I REALLY REALLY hope this next Brian Fuller written Episode (Cold Snap) saves my favourite show.