| Scoreboard |  |
 |
 |
 |
 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Total Viewers (million) | 8.36 | 5.60 | 4.60 | 3.89 | 1.52 |
| Rating/Share: Adults 18-49 | 2.9/9 | 1.7/5 | 1.3/4 | 1.4/4 | 0.6/2 |
CBS easily won the night with the NCAA Basketball averaging 8.36 million viewers and a 2.9 rating with adults 18-49. Please keep in mind that coverage of live events is especially subject to change in the final numbers.
Predictions of Dollhouse getting crushed did not come to pass. The much-anticipated sixth episode finally arrived and performed similarly to last week when it had 4.3 million and a 1.6 rating with 18-49s. Last night it had 4.13 million and a 1.5/5 (rating/share) with adults 18-49. It doesn’t look like either the basketball or the the Battlestar Galactica finale (and we probably won’t see its numbers until Tuesday the BSG season finale averaged 2.4 million viewers, the most since the season 2.5 premiere) had much of an impact on Dollhouse.
Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles actually added viewers from last week when it averaged 3.5 million and a 1.2/4 with adults 18-40 to 3.65 million and a 1.3/5 last night.
Previous Friday night overnight reports are available for comparisons.
Full details:
| Time | Net | Show | Viewers (Millons) | 18-49 Rating/Share |
| 8:00 | CBS | NCAA Men’s Basketball Tournament 8p-11p | 8.36 | 2.9/9 |
| ABC | Wife Swap | 4.85 | 1.6/6 | |
| NBC | Howie Do It | 3.89 | 1.0/4 | |
| FOX | Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles | 3.65 | 1.3/5 | |
| CW | Everybody Hates Chris | 1.59 | 0.6/2 | |
| 8:30 | CW | The Game | 1.66 | 0.7/2 |
| 9:00 | ABC | Supernanny | 5.34 | 1.6/5 |
| FOX | Dollhouse | 4.13 | 1.5/5 | |
| NBC | Friday Night Lights | 3.84 | 1.2/4 | |
| CW | America’s Next Top Model (R) | 1.42 | 0.6/2 | |
| 10:00 | ABC | 20/20 | 6.63 | 1.8/6 |
| NBC | Dateline | 6.07 | 1.7/6 |
Shows are sorted by viewers in each time slot.
Nielsen TV Ratings: ©2009 The Nielsen Company. All Rights Reserved. Source Marc Berman/Mediaweek.
Definitions:
Fast Affiliate Ratings: These first national ratings, including demographics, are available at approximately 11 AM (ET) the day after telecast, and are released to subscribing customers daily. These data, from the National People Meter sample, are strictly time-period information, based on the normal broadcast network feed, and include all programming on the affiliated stations, sometimes including network programming, sometimes not. The figures may include stations that did not air the entire network feed, as well as local news breaks or cutaways for local coverage or other programming. Fast Affiliate ratings are not as useful for live programs and are likely to differ significantly from the final results, because the data reflect normal broadcast feed patterns. For example, with a World Series game, Fast Affiliate Ratings would include whatever aired from 8-11PM on affiliates in the Pacific Time Zone, following the live football game, but not game coverage that begins at 5PM PT. The same would be true of Presidential debates as well as live award shows and breaking news reports.
Rating: Estimated percentage of the universe of TV households (or other specified group) tuned to a program in the average minute. Ratings are expressed as a percent.
Share (of Audience): The percent of households (or persons) using television who are tuned to a specific program, station or network in a specific area at a specific time. (See also, Rating, which represents tuning or viewing as a percent of the entire population being measured.)
Time Shifted Viewing – Program ratings for national sources are produced in three streams of data – Live, Live+Same Day (Live+SD) and Live+7 Day. Time shifted figures account for incremental viewing that takes place with DVRs which are currently in approximately 24.4% of all U.S. TV households. Live+Same Day (Live+SD) include viewing during the same broadcast day as the original telecast, with a cut-off of 3:00AM local time when meters transmit daily viewing to Nielsen for processing. Live+7 Day ratings include incremental viewing that takes place during the 7 days following a telecast.
For more information see Numbers 101.
So much for rating juggernaut BSG hitting Dollhouse this week.
Do I get to say I told you so now?
people will spin the numbers of Dollhouse in 3….2…1
I’m an FNL fan and normally watch on widescreen. Last night I saw it standard 4×3. Why does NBC not letterbox it like every other drama they have?? You could see NOTHING 4×3 cropped. If I were a first-time viewer, I woulda tuned right out.
Not too shabby. After last night, Dollhouse is starting to get REALLY good now.
How is 4.13 million viewers better than last week?
I didn’t say it was better. I said it was similar. I said TSCC was higher, because it was
It kind of is better though. Dollhouse did better than FNL this week.
I hate how each time the Friday ratings are posted it is seems all that is talked about is T:SCC and Dollhouse. There is other things in the ratings to talk about then these two loser shows.
Gee, isn’t 8.36 million viewers less than CBS normally gets on Friday?
RJ, like?
RJ, if you want to talk about something else then why not do it, instead of adding to the discussion you are complaining about?
“Gee, isn’t 8.36 million viewers less than CBS normally gets on Friday?”
The demo is up though.
Andrew, but a 2.9 demo is far more than they usually get. And that’s what matters.
How is 4.13 million viewers more impressive than last week?
And don’t think that photo went overlooked.
Damn you Cleveland State!
can everybody against the show shut up and download the episode 6 ”man on the street”? now u’ll be satisfied about the plot and understand what ‘dollhouse’ really is. i think the show is going to improve its rating next week without BSG and flashpoint, next episode looks amazing!!!!!!!!!
I don’t think NCAA would have really made much difference to Dollhouse’s figures.
The much heralded Episode 6 was pretty good though, and I’d be curious to know if word-of-mouth leads to higher ratings next week. If the show continues in the spirit of Episode 6, then I’m going to be one unhappy bunny when Fox announces the show’s inevitable cancellation.
T:SCC was surprisingly good too, perhaps if we’d had episodes like that most of the year the show would have lived to see Season 3. I cannot for the life of me figure out how the makers of T:SCC managed to screw it up this badly.
Y total viewers are meaningless.
Regardless of that no one has said it was in anyway, shape or form more impressive.
Awesome — woo hoo!! Dollhouse is doing just fine. And with the DVR it hits 5 mil. So yeah too bad for all you haters.
wow…
your telling me that FOX, the successful network that it is is gonna renew a 4.13/1.5 show, and NBC, the mess that it is, wont renew a show with 6.1/2.0?
sorry guys but I just cant see fox renewing dollhouse
Rumor is that Dollhouse will get picked up for Season 2:
http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63310451/m/506103791?r=156103791#156103791
djm, FOX will renew Dollhouse because IT’S THE BEST SHOW EVER!
hahaha just kidding
Joss seems to finally be taking control of his show, and after episode 6 (last night), things should hopefully be picking up. Good twist in the episode, and a lot of answers. The preview for next week looks ama-za-zing.
On the subject of Dollhouse’s sixth episode it was much improved but not blow me away fantastic. I do however have trouble understanding why they opted to put the news reel footage in this episode rather than the pilot since that was by far and away the best and easiest way to explain the basic concept of the show. Unless of course Fox and everyone involved in the show was/is just treating episode 6 as a ‘second pilot’, which would make some degree of sense I guess.
In general terms though I think the show displayed a few signs of life though – the sleeper active is a nice touch and I await the political conspiracy that was subtly hinted at in this episode. Basically I think Whedon has found his feet with the show now and is more comfortable with what it is and where its going. There’s still a long way to go though and I’m still not convinced this show has creative life over multiple seasons. And the cast is hit and miss.
Dollhouse is still on the fence for me on whether it will come back and whether I actually want it to come back.
Oh and for a man still suffering from a gun shot wound the unconvincing FBI agent was surprisingly nimble and spritely…
I was one of the person who thought March Madness and Battlestar would take a small chunk out of the Dollhouse demo. I was wrong. Live+7 DVR will be curious for tonight.
Will be interesting to see if Dollhouse can build week to week now.
djm, apples and organges.
You’re comparing two different shows that air on two different nights with two completely different set of expectations. If NBC were pulling a 2.0 on Friday night then the show would be back. Anywhere else and you have to question it.
seriously, the best demo dollhouse has gotten is a 1.6?!
I would have thought that fox would want to have a more (brace yourself) Successful show.
I’m dying to see BSG’s ratings ….. The Finale was absolutely marvelous … Best Sci-Fi show ever … and now it’s over …… SGA is also over ….. and all we are left is with TSCC (which will end soon) and that Garbage Doll House
…….. FNL lost some more viewers ….. it was below 4 mil last week and same goes for this weak ……. So when are we getting a confirmation of whether or not directv is sponsoring the show??? It’s been 10 eps already and only 3 more left ……. anyway keeping my fingers crossed as i have heard rumors that FNL is going to survive …..
@ andrea… Marc said nothing about it getting picked up for another season… he said dont give up hope XD
djm the best demo Dollhouse has gotten is a 2.0
And again apples and oranges. Dollhouse isn’t performing horribly for a Friday night show. It isn’t performing especially well either but…
@djm Marc (read his comments) says FOX are considering a second series of Dollhouse.
DJM,
Berman: Fox scheduled a phone conference with the press on Dollhouse, which means they are considering a second season.
Andrea, I wouldn’t extrapolate Marc’s response to me into a “Rumor is that Dollhouse will get picked up for Season 2″ in any way… only that FOX is still promoting the show and therefore open to the idea. If they’d already given up, they wouldn’t care much about promotion half way through.
Oh no, the demo for TSCC improved slightly. Now we’re going to have to explain to all the TSCC fans why it still isn’t enough to prevent cancellation.
The idea that Weaver wants to destroy humans because they’ve disappointed her in the past is a good one. It would be nice if they had actually hinted at that while they still had viewers,though.
Terminator is dead, and sadly, i’m not sad about it… The last 4-5 episodes where just bad. I can’t believe what they pulled out, knowing they wouldn’t come back for another season. I just growed tired of boring episodes.
As for Dollhouse, well, if you look at the competition in this time slot, 1.6, 1.2, 0.6 in the demos, Dollhouse didn’t do bad with 1.5 The question is, can they at least finish in the second position? And what about international ratings and finally, the future dvd sales. Well, maybe Fox would want to keep it around… I won’t go dreaming about it though…
Samuel says: “The last 4-5 episodes where just bad. I can’t believe what they pulled out, knowing they wouldn’t come back for another season. I just growed tired of boring episodes.”
It’s clear that you haven’t watched the last three episodes, especially last night’s. How about you do that before making a stupid comment like that. Last night’s episode was one of, if not the best episode of the SERIES so far. Definitely best episode of season 2, hands down.
I agree, though. It’s too late. Had they been producing shows of the calibre of episodes 2.17, 2.18 and 2.19 we would be in a better place for sure.
Right now Dollhouse can go either way (canceled or Renewed). The show is able to at lest maintain its 4 million audiences every week! But its rating share hasn’t been the greatest. sooo im srsly clueless on Dollhouse survival
“It doesn’t look like either the basketball or the the Battlestar Galactica finale (and we probably won’t see its numbers until Tuesday) had much of an impact on Dollhouse.”
Robert, we may have to agree to disagree on this statement. I know a number of DH fans who were either watching the BSG finale live at home, (my brother and SIL among them) watching at a BSG finale party (Woot!), or watching the last 8 games of the first round (Go Bucky!). They all either tivo’ed, dvr’ed or in the case of my brother and SIL, caught “Man on the Street” via Hulu this morning and called to squee loudly in my ear over the awesomeness that was last night’s Dollhouse.
How much impact is probably non-calculable, unless the DVR/Hulu etc numbers see a spike this week.
Whatever the results, I LOVED last night’s episodes of DH AND T:TSCC, and hope the audience continues to grow for both shows. (Fox, if you cancel DH I may have to throw my Kindle at you!)
dollhouse last night wasnt the big improved episode i was hoping for. im offically done with that crap show.
Jords you can disagree all you want but the numbers are pretty clear on this combined BSG and NCAA dented Dollhouse by a 0.1 in the demo – that’s not much of an impact. Especially when you consider the the NCAA demo is well up on what CBS usually pulls on Friday’s (especially at 9), where ever the extra NCAA viewers came from they don’t seem to have been Dollhouse and if BSG got a major spike for its finale then it didn’t get it from the Dollhouse viewers not watching Dollhouse.
Oh, yes it was Jack. As a person who hated the first few episodes, I loved this one and you know something, the next episode looks even better. If Fox renews this, Fox should pair it with Fringe as the lead-in on Monday Nights. Monday Nights don’t have too much competition and Heroes isn’t even much of a factor anymore.
Dollhouse was supposed to improve with this sixth episode? It sucked! I decided to give it another chance and I regret doing so. What a waste of time.
Y……monday is one of the busiest nights on tv! if not the busiest
uhh.. yeah y, what exactly isnt working for FOX about their House/24 combo?
And alex… people who watch basketball probably arent gonna watch dollhouse.. the demos are different. Besides there’s always gonna be some other sifi oops SYFY show on.. you cant use the BSG argument.
I know that Mondays is one of the busiest, but Tuesday is worse off for Fringe and Dollhouse because of the combination of NCIS and The Mentalist. There were a couple of episodes of Fringe that did better with Idol as the lead-in because they didn’t have new episodes of NCIS and The Mentalist to compete against.
From the depths of the Plane of Trolls, I summon thee: Joss’s Biggest Fan, come forth to wreck havoc on the world with your callow attempts at humor!
I was talking about Mondays in the fall for Fox, not necessarily the spring. In the spring when Idol airs I would move Fringe to tuesday nights and Dollhouse to Wednesday nights following Idol at 9 pm et. Yeah, it would air opposite Lost, but it would move to 8 pm once Idol makes the switch to 9 pm.
I would pair up Bones and Dollhouse for Thursdays, if renewed.
That’s not a bad idea except Dollhouse would then have to face CSI.
“Monday Nights don’t have too much competition”
Oh, Y, how I cannot wait for you to meet the Chuck fans.
@John T. Folden
Pretty bad idea because besides facing CSI and Grey’s, Dollhouse will be facing Supernatural. And the 2 shows share a similar fanbase.
I guess after FNL, the next goal for Dollhouse is to beat Supernanny in the demo
I’d love to know what Oprah thought about the 3/20/09 Dollhouse episode. Will Oprah bash it? Does Oprah hate Dollhouse? This is in response to the 3/19/09 episode of Oprah.
Does T: TSCC have potential? NO. Does Dollhouse have potential? YES! How would Dollhouse fare as a June to September series?
NCAA trounced last week’s Flashpoint 18-49 demo rating by about 76 percent, while The Unit (in the Top 40/18-19) scored 58 percent higher than Flashpoint. Is Flashpoint really a Sept-May series?
Is Howie Do It the Friday night NBC curse show?
Pathetic (from a ratings standpoint): everything except NCAA & 20/20
a, my guess is that you could count the viewers of both Oprah and Dollhouse on one hand.
“In the spring when Idol airs I would move Fringe to tuesday nights and Dollhouse to Wednesday nights following Idol at 9 pm et. Yeah, it would air opposite Lost, but it would move to 8 pm once Idol makes the switch to 9 pm.”
So you would start with two niche shows in their sophomore season holding down a night, possibly going up against Heroes/Day One and the somewhat geekiest CBS has on the schedule (Big Bang Theory), then moving everything on schedule around as much as humanly possible midseason, because obviously no one has to know where House/Bones/Lie to Me vanished to as long as the niche shows get the Idol lead in?
FOX might (MIGHT) prop Fringe up for another season on Tuesdays, but they’ll want House and Idol to be able to launch actual new shows at some point. The only way Fringe and Dollhouse get paired together is if FOX is serious enough about revitalizing their SciFi Friday by moving Fringe there. And, as I said before, that’s exactly how the killed Dark Angel, so they may think that over twice.
Does anyone have an actual number for DVD’s sold for S1 of T:SCC.
Actual units sold?
I’ve heard it did well, but not an actual number.
Please help, thanks.
Y, Dave; the problem is that if FOX decides DH might be a hit, I’d think they would want to move it off Fridays BUT I don’t see FOX using Dollhouse after AI and can’t see it being paired with Fringe as a winning move (Fringe will have it’s own troubles if slotted to 8PM, I think).
DH will be up against stronger competition on virtually any other night or, worse, end up being used as an 8PM lead-in.
I DVR both Friday Night Lights and Dollhouse and watch both. FNL is as high quality a program on TV. Dollhouse is pretty entertaining. I think Eliza Dusku is a very solid lead as she has real screen presence and is very appealing. If FNL dosen’t get nominated for multiple emmys the academy simply isn’t watching it. Its that good.
chuck
Where is Nick C. I want to see how he could spin the numbers this time.
What dollhouse needs is Cylons. SO SAY WE ALL!!
Dollhouse won’t move from friday. The show as waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to bad ratings to start moving it everywhere… They’re gonna let it run some time, get tired of waiting and kill it.
TSCC is dead, and agreed or not, the show has always been slow paced. This is a miracle ($$$$$$$ warner$$$$$)they made it to season 2, and to a complete order. Come mon, be realistic, started from 18 to 10 to 8 millions. And finally from 6, to 5, to 3. Spin it every way you can, this show is a freaking rotten walking corpse happy to still been walking!
I’m intrigue to see how bad the rest of prison break will do. After a 4-5 months hiatus… I’d say it’s gonna be a lot like TSCC ratings…
Andrea et al.:
What reasons do you think Fox might have for considering renewing Dollhouse? Fox treated the show like a redheaded stepchild, delaying its premiere and then pushing it to Friday nights. It attracts about the same ratings as those silly reality shows Fox used to air on Friday, and I have to believe the reality shows are cheaper to produce. I also don’t really see a path for Dollhouse to improve its ratings.
Well it dropped, but only to a 1.5. I bet FOX is happy. The 2nd half season promotional push was planned from the point when they realized the 2nd half of the season was much better than the first. So that really means nothing. It was going to happen anyway. FOX has always planned to help promote the improved episodes in hope of an up trend.
Without the up trend the show is in trouble. I think it is safe to say the show has bottomed out at 1.5. So it needs to trend up. Which will be harder next week when it’s up against the SWEET SIXTEEN which gets more viewers than the first round of the Tourney.
If it can survive the NCAAs with another 1.5 it should be ok. I expected worse, but surprisingly it held up better than I thought it would. Some of it is new viewers. The idea is that a sporting event (not the SUPER BOWL) both steals viewers and offers the opportunity of viewers. FLASHPOINT viewers may have tuned in to DOLLHOUSE since there was nothing on the line up that was scripted besides that or FNL.
If this 6th episode was supposed to be the good one, why did ratings fall a bit from last week even with a stronger lead in? Obviously people dont like the show. FOX would be stupid to renew this.
“FLASHPOINT viewers may have tuned in to DOLLHOUSE since there was nothing on the line up that was scripted besides that or FNL.”
I usually watch Flashpoint, but I didnt tune into Dollhouse. Chances are CBS viewers either kept it on the NCAA game or turned off the tv.
Dollhouse breakdown:
9:00 p.m. V: 4.22 m, A18-49: 1.5/ 5
9:30 p.m.: v: 4.04 m, A18-49: 1.5/ 4
Source: (Marc Berman)
http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63310451/m/506103791/p/3
THR report the Battlestar finale got around 2.4 million viewers, which is up about a million.
RJ, your TV preferences do not dictate the entire CBS audience.
RJ, it went up against NCAA and BSG finale. Those were supposed to steal viewers. I expect combined they hit the show with at least a loss of 500,000 viewers. However they also had some new viewers (more than likely) from FLASHPOINT and some Whedonites who hadn’t watched in a while. So it held up better than people thought against the NCAA tourney. Which does share much of the same target demo. Look what the NCAA did to SMALLVILLE and SUPERNATURAL.
Also it’s PROFITABLE. If you’re going to try and make Friday legit, you might as well anchor it with a profitable show.
So last night was Dollhouse’s magical Episode Six? It will be interesting to see if it holds, trends up, or drops a tick in the next three or so consecutive airings.
No more FNL rumors to report? I had read the “two-season” DirecTV deal was in the works. I might watch that, just to see how they fill two season’s worth of stories. The Taylors are the center of the show, no doubt. The supporting cast will probably see major changes though – graduations, weddings, yadda yadda…
I am a flashpoint watcher.. didnt turn on the TV at all last night… fridays are a wasteland XD
djm, how many people watch FLASHPOINT? Around 9 million? and I figure are 300,000 tuned in to DOLLHOUSE. So you’d be the norm.
“And alex… people who watch basketball probably arent gonna watch dollhouse.. the demos are different. Besides there’s always gonna be some other sifi oops SYFY show on.. you cant use the BSG argument.”
djm have you read anything I’ve said on the subject of the BSG finale impacting Dollhouse over the past two weeks? My argument has always been that it will have no effect on the numbers. In terms of basketball and Dollhouse having different demos, I’m not sure that works out. I’d bet both are popular with young men.
“If this 6th episode was supposed to be the good one, why did ratings fall a bit from last week even with a stronger lead in? Obviously people dont like the show. FOX would be stupid to renew this.”
Backward logic RJ.
The word of mouth theory kicks in after the good episode(s) airs not before, people don’t start talking about how good an episode was until after its aired. If the word of mouth theory pans out then it should start to trend up over the coming weeks. This isn’t like flicking a light switch. And a 0.1 increase in TSCC hardly counts as a stronger lead in at this point.
YAYA Im SOOOO PROUD OF TERMINATOR AND DOLLHOUSE!!!! I HOPE THEY CONTINUE TO RISE, THEY DESERVE TO BE SEEN
i have a feeling these friday overnights conversations are going to get real interesting after Prison Break returns.
The only reason the 6th episode is good, is because of fight scenes. Eliza kicking ass or showing skin is exactly why people watch Dollhouse. Not many really care for the storyline of “gotta take down the dollhouse” (why?), or “let’s protect the dollhouse” (who cares?)
The storyline, is “evolving” at least, which is a good thing.
TSCC on the other hand has really took off. I think the writers thought they could just put the whole storyline, action, and plot twists, in the last 4-6 episodes. Big mistake. They should have done that since Episode 8.
However, this doesn’t mean that TSCC is too late, or that it will be canceled. This is not a comedy show that simply failed. This is a major production show, with a world-wide fan-base, part of a well-known franchise, and has quality writing.
For those people who keep saying “TSCC will be canceled”, let go of this insistence. Even if you are 100% right, why bother? No one wants to hear bad news, and no one cares that you know. I don’t go around yelling “oh for sure Dollhouse will be canceled, bad writing, silly storyline, completely unrealistic, you can’t brainwash people and imprint skills damnit, it’s not possible, Star Trek is more realistic!” So really, don’t bother talking about how a show will be canceled, you’re just being childish. You don’t know how advertisers are paying, you don’t know whether the executives like the show themselves, you don’t know whether the executives have ideas on how to improve the show, and you barely know the numbers, you don’t even know the online viewership neilsens (TSCC is still one of the most pirated shows online).
TSCC stopped bleeding and I think it’s fighting right. Quality of the episodes is higher and slowly people are getting back. But I dont know if it’s too late. Hope not, it’s the best show on the tv.
Outlander:
I don’t know. Maybe trying to keep a good relationship with Joss? Despite the Friday night death slot, it seems that Kevin Reilly was a big supporter of DH. http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-03-13/hollywood-stunned-as-murdoch-shakes-up-his-fox-network/full/
But, again, maybe Berman is wrong. Who knows? FOX management just had a big shakeup and Kevin Reilly’s job I hear is vulnerable, plus new stories are saying FOX thinks DH is a failure (source: see article link, and deadlinehollywood.com)
Jonathan the fact that TSCC is one of the most pirated shows online could not be more meaningless, why on earth is a network going to keep the show around because its one of the most popular shows to illegally download? If Fox was earning money from people illegally downloading TSCC than it would come into play.
People aren’t claiming that Terminator is done because of bad writing, acting or unrealistic plots people are claiming that Terminator is done because not enough people are watching in a way that Fox can actually profit from. Fox aren’t going to keep the show around because they kind of like it because any love they might have had for the show went out the window when it hit a 1.0 a few weeks ago. If the shows not profitable and with its numbers its hard to imagine Fox making much if any money from it unless Warner Brothers are letting them have it incredibly cheaply, which isn’t impossible.
A DVD and international audience note none of that really matters to Fox, it’s a Warner Brothers production so WB are the ones who profit from that market. The only way those factor into the shows future in the US are if they’re strong enough to allow the WB to sell it to Fox or another network at a rock bottom price. And trust me the international revenue for TSCC isn’t strong enough to do that.
Jonathan, we’re not being childish when we say that TSCC will be cancelled. We’re just trying to prevent people from getting disappointed with false hope. Look at what happened with Lipstick Jungle. Brooke Shields and the fans were saying for MONTHS that it might not be cancelled, and finally Angela had to come out and say that it doesn’t look like Lipstick Jungle is coming back.
I love nothing more than people saying a pirated show means a show is successful.
Question and answer:
Question: Who pays for the show?
Answer: Advertisers.
Question: How many advertisements are in BitTorrent downloads?
Answer: None.
Sowwy!
@Jonathan
Perhaps you should just come to TVBTN’s site and only view the numbers. If you don’t bother reading the articles or the comments you won’t have to worry about what others think T:TSCC’s chances for renwal/cancellation are.
I must admit, I’m surprised Dollhouse’s numbers held up compared to last week. I thought the basketball(awesome games) would take a .2 or so off the ratings. A renewal may yet be possible.
Andrea, Kevin’s pretty safe. He was also behind LIE TO ME and FRINGE. So DOLLHOUSE isn’t pulling huge numbers, FOX still hasn’t made a decision. However it has to get better. If it doesn’t…
Comparing TSCC to Lipstick is a mistake.
Ask someone outside US what is Lipstick. They will no know.
Ask what is Teminator. That’s different.
My point is first and second season of TSCC were sold to many countries and have fans all over the world.Second season is doing quite well ( where I live ) and I think if there were a 3rd season( fingers crossed ), the station will buy it for sure.
Many people download newest episodes form internet but they also watch tscc when it’s shown on their local stations. Many people are interested in whats gonna happen next.
Sadly, I don’t see things really getting better for Dollhouse. It didn’t cure cancer or stop people from worrying about global warming, but I enjoyed last night’s episode. The problem is, they can’t really do episodes like last night every week, and even if they could, it becomes so serialized that it probably averages fewer viewers than the “Doll programming scenario of the week” episodes, and I think we’ve pretty much seen how those perform.
i think FOX made a mistake putting dollhouse on fridays. It seems like the people that started watching it, still like it. I think FOX could have had another 8-9 million viewer hit like Fringe, but they blew it by putting it on fridays,
but i gotta hand it to dollhouse, it has hung on to most of its audience.
Oh… jeez, I though we were here to talk about numbers and renew/cancel chances… Well, seems like I was wrong… This is a FANBOY BLOG!!!! WOUHOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUU!!!
C’mon… Be realistic, that’s what this was made to be… Don’t go crying when someone looks at bad numbers and say that the show is gonna get canned!
qwerty,where do you live? Yes,TSCC was SOLD to many countries but the question is, is it doing well internationally?
Poland.
I can only write what I know about the first season.
It was 2nd most viewable show on the tv in that slot. First was some crappy soap opera, every country must have one ( damn, it’s a disease ? ).
Second season is on AXN now, about 10th episode was shown last sunday.
Sadly it’s translated tragically. So many people DL it from internet and watch with subtitles.
querty, ask about sarah conner chronicles and they will have no idea…
terminator was a movie, and a popular one at that. so just asking if they have herd ovf terminator dosent count
Ok, you guys lack imagination or something…
I mentioned TSCC is one of the most pirated shows for a good reason. Pirated shows contrary to popular belief, DO HELP THE SHOW.
I’d like you to READ THIS AGAIN:
1 (2) Heroes 1,690,000
2 (…) House M.D. 780,000
3 (3) 24 710,000
4 (…) Desperate Housewives 620,000
5 (…) Smallville 580,000
6 (5) Battlestar Galactica 520,000
7 (4) The Big Bang Theory 510,000
8 (6) Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles 410,000
9 (…) Supernatural 390,000
10 (8) How I Met Your mother 360,000
If you think any of the above shows are getting canceled, then you are very pessimistic.
What Top pirated shows mean is something important to Fox executives.
It’s a big slap in the face at fox saying “THIS SHOW IS IN A WRONG TIMESLOT”
It also means that the show’s fanbase is growing rapidly, maybe not on TV, but on internet.
Let me explain this… The Neilsen ratings record 18-49…. right?
WTH is wrong with that picture? 18 year olds DO NOT watch the same things as the average 29 year old, and the average 29 year old does NOT watch the same things as 39 year olds, and the average 39 doesn’t watch the same things as the average 49 year olds. Are there overlaps? YES. I talk to my college friends, who are still in college, and they all watch Terminator. I talk to my ~29 year old friends, and they watch the news and mtv.
Just look at 8PM Friday, the RATING for TSCC is 3rd best of that night. It’s not performing that bad. Most likely if you could divide the 18-49, you may find either the 29-49 watch TSCC more , or the 18-29 watch TSCC more (depends).
Look at Hulu.com, during the weekend, TSCC is one of the most popular shows on there, dollhouse performs better tho, sometimes higher than 24 is.
Look at the fox.com wikis… The most popular Fox.com community is TSCC for sure.
YES, they don’t directly translate to money for Fox. But they can with a little creativity, reorganization, and rescheduling. If they plan out Season 3 with fox executives, giving them more creative control, I think they can get the show to continue. AFTER ALL, ALL shows in 2nd season go off a little and then they recover in season 3. It happened to 24, it happened to X-Files, and others. Also, lets not forget, that breaks, rescheduling had a lot to do with the collapse in ratings for TSCC; the expectations cannot be that high for Fridays.
In season 1, TSCC was one of the top shows on Fox was it not? Do you think Fox executives will simply forget all about TSCC season 1?
To MIchael > Not here in France. TF1 (french version of CBS) drop TSCC for another cable channel of the group (I don’t know if I’m clear : it’s like a CBS show go finally to CW) and on TMC (the little one) the first season did just “correct”
Here’s a nail in TSCC’s coffin: Brian Austin Green has signed up for a new pilot. http://www.terminatorsite.com
jonathan, Well, Of course House and Desperate Housewives and most the other shows on that list will get renewed, but NOT because they are on that list. They’ll get renewed because they get good ratings (even Smallville and Supernatural compared to the CW in general). TSCC will not because it gets horrible ratings. And before you whine about the Friday time slot, it got horrible ratings on Monday too.
right jonathon… blame the system..
if TSCC had house pirate #’s then maybe it would matter (that would amout to 25-50% of the live audience)
but 340,000? seriously?
I forget who said this.. but the networks care about money. Do priated D/l’s give them money? no. So THEY DONT CARE
John are you in denial right now terminator is half way in the grave yard there is nothing you can do about it.Plus if pirated downloads of tv show matter alot of shows that got canceled would still be around.Terminator tv series is getting terminated simple as that.
Jonathan its not a lack of imagination that makes people discount illegal downloading its an abundance of common sense.
The shows on your list that come back won’t come back because a lot of people download them illegally and in reality when you consider the global population who actually has access to these shows illegally it isn’t a lot of people. You also have to remember that the internet and illegal downloading aren’t confined to the US – a shocking development I know. There’s no way to translate illegal pirating to potential US audience that isn’t how it works.
Right now the internet means nothing, especially for TSCC.
And for the record Jonathan Neilsen does break the demo numbers down beyond 18-49 into more narrow age groups as well as sexes but those aren’t numbers that are widely published unless a network wants to boast about how many young men or women are watching one of their shows. TSCC breakdowns aren’t good enough to save it and if they were it would translate to a higher number in the 18-49.
Jonathan,
“If you think any of the above shows are getting canceled, then you are very pessimistic.”
Just because all the other shows you listed are getting renewed doesn’t mean that TSCC will too. Each show is judged by itself, and TSCC just happens to be the only show in the top 10 this week that will most likely get the axe.
“What Top pirated shows mean is something important to Fox executives.”
You keep saying that but never really explain WHY.
“Let me explain this… The Neilsen ratings record 18-49…. right?
WTH is wrong with that picture? 18 year olds DO NOT watch the same things as the average 29 year old, and the average 29 year old does NOT watch the same things as 39 year olds, and the average 39 doesn’t watch the same things as the average 49 year olds. Are there overlaps? YES. I talk to my college friends, who are still in college, and they all watch Terminator. I talk to my ~29 year old friends, and they watch the news and mtv.”
What is your point here? It doesn’t matter if everyone in an age bracket has the same viewing habits or not. It simply matters how many people you GET in that age bracket.
All advertisers care about is how many demo viewers the show is getting. They don’t care if the 20-somethings that watch TSCC are also watching mtv, and they don’t care if the 40-somethings that watch TSCC are also watching Mentalist… all they care about is how many 18-49 year olds are watching TERMINATOR!
“Just look at 8PM Friday, the RATING for TSCC is 3rd best of that night. It’s not performing that bad.”
First of all, that is most certainly not good. But more importantly, it’s not that they are in 3rd place that is the biggest problem, but that they are spending more money to be in third place than NBC, ABC, or CW are spending in that hour.
“Look at Hulu.com, during the weekend, TSCC is one of the most popular shows on there, dollhouse performs better tho, sometimes higher than 24 is.”
Unfortunately for TSCC and people like me that use Hulu, this is pennies in the grand scheme of things.
“YES, they don’t directly translate to money for Fox.”
Exactly.
“But they can with a little creativity, reorganization, and rescheduling.”
I seriously doubt that even if this was possible, Fox would take the time and money to undertake it.
“AFTER ALL, ALL shows in 2nd season go off a little and then they recover in season 3.”
Not all shows, dude.
“the expectations cannot be that high for Fridays.”
That is the sole reason this show has not already been yanked off the air.
“In season 1, TSCC was one of the top shows on Fox was it not? Do you think Fox executives will simply forget all about TSCC season 1?”
Season one aired during the strike-impaired part of the season. But more importantly, season one’s ratings have nothing at all to do with the rating’s it got last night. Deal Or No Deal used to get better ratings than anything NBC currently airs.
I hope Dollhouse trends back up next weak.
querty, ask about sarah conner chronicles and they will have no idea…
terminator was a movie, and a popular one at that. so just asking if they have herd ovf terminator dosent count
Well. Chances are higher for TSCC than for Lipstinck IMHO.
Never heard about Lipstick, dont know really what that is so I wont write more about it.
You really think Fox will be like… loal to the show because ONE and only ONE episode got 18 millions viewers? Without mentioning to huge drop it got after, from 18 to 10, to 8… You’re dreaming. They only kept the show because warner gave them a hell of a prize for it.
But hey, keep dreaming. When you can say: 3.65 millions and 1.5 demos are “not that bad” without laughing…
i thought last nights dollhouse was awesome!!!Hoping it gets even better by the season finale!!!!
Well, the important thing about TSCC for me is – THEY PUT MY NAME IN THE SHOW!
That’s right, folks! I was alerted to this by a guy on another site Thursday, and I thought he was doing an April Fool’s joke two weeks early. Then I saw the spoiler clip Fox put up yesterday morning. And of course watched the episode last night.
Indeed, my name is in the dialog on the show! There are only two Richard Hacks I can think of that Zack Stentz, one of the two writers of last night’s episode, could know. One is the well-known writer and movie/TV critic – and the other is me. Because Zack knows me from the Matt Yglesias political blog and also from the Sarah Connor Society and official Fox Terminator wiki forums.
So I’d say it’s even odds that it’s me being referenced as one of three Zeira Corp employees having been “terminated” by Catherine Weaver.
Only part I didn’t like was the really ugly mofo’s picture they used to represent my name on John Henry’s screen. OTOH, it looked like Josh Friedman, too! LOL!
Last night’s episode was pretty good compared to the crap they’ve had previously. It had a bit of everything – another T-1000, John finally gets a clue, Cameron gets (slightly) redeemed, John finally disses Sarah (twice, no less!), Derek gets his comeuppance, there’s a small amount of action.
I predicted Derek would be the one to kill Jesse, and came close to being right – except he claims to have let her go on John’s orders. Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. He lied about Andy Goode, maybe he lied about Jesse.
Could have been better, but wasn’t as bad as recent episodes. But of course the addition of a mere 150,000 new viewers won’t matter a whit as far as cancellation goes.
Next week’s episode looks to be heavy. We already know from Thomas Dekker’s spoilers that Charley Dixon dies. I can’t wait for the confrontation between Cameron and Derek – I hope Cameron bounces Derek’s ass off every hard piece of furniture in the room. Probably won’t, though.
Re Brian Austin Green’s signing on with another project, rumor has it that Summer Glau is also working on a new project. She apparently canceled her British Starfury sci-fi convention visit in April due to a new project.
I’d say the actors know which way the wind is blowing – the show is over.
Oh, yeah, forgot to comment about Dollhouse. This episode was really good. And the hints dropped about an inside person working against the Dollhouse, the exposure of Ballard’s next door neighbor as an Active (like I didn’t see that coming!), the revelation that there are 20 Dollhouses worldwide, and that the purpose has nothing to do with satisfying people’s fantasies looks to be a foretaste of episodes to come.
If they emphasize the whole conspiracy thing over the “Doll of the Week” stand alones they did in the first five episodes, they should be nearly as interesting as Fringe.
Whether that will make any difference in being renewed, I don’t know, unless it trends up well and then is moved to a different night. But at least it’s likely we’ll get to see the entire 13 episodes. And maybe then it will move to “See Fee” or whatever they’re calling themselves these days.
“but i gotta hand it to dollhouse, it has hung on to most of its audience.”
It shouldnt be hard to keep 4 million viewers.
Wow this is how bad fridays has become for broadcast networks: a new episode of Friday Night Lights only gets a 1.2 in the demo, when a Heroes rerun got a 1.1 demo: its just death….. No wonder this is when cable shows perform well
I just see episode six of Dollhouse: Man On The Street and OMFG! Fantastic. I want a second season right now!
RJ; I dunno… It sure is hard for TSCC. lol
* I just saw (…)
Judging by this article I’d say Kevin is pretty safe.
http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/foxs-tony-v-talks-rupert-rice-reilly/
Samuel: stfu and go away already. I think your time is up on your parent’s computer.
right… majarvis… go through denial….
lol! Wow… Childish… the “no phase”
djm: What am I denying? It’s no shock to anyone that TSCC is going to be cancelled, so what am I denying, exactly?
Samuel: They’re letting you stay up late on a Saturday night? You must have been good!
You keep slamming TSCC for having crappy episodes lately, which makes it clear that you haven’t watched the last three. Yes, the middle of season 2 sucked, but starting with episode 2.17 the show has improved immensely, and last night was an excellent, excellent episode. So if you’re going to slam a show, at least take the time to know what you’re talking about. Got it? Good.
Majarvis; Surely you must realize that the perceived “quality” of something like a TV show episode is subjective rather than factual. Your opinion that a particular episode is “excellent” is no more or less valid than someone else who thinks it’s “poor”.
I watched every single episode, sorry to blow you’re bubble kid
Samuel: You’re hilarious calling me “kid” with the level of immaturity shown in your posts.
If you have watched “every single episode” than you can surely realize that the three recent episodes *have* improved over the horrible Sarah-centric ones.
Actually last night’s episode of TSCC was the first good one since, oh, maybe “Self Made Man” – and “Self” was only good because it was devoted to Cameron and showcased two excellent actors. It did nothing to move the story along.
Last night at least resolved one subplot and represented some character development of John Connor. Plus it had enough real Terminators in it to keep anyone happy. Plus it had some action – not the balls-to-the-wall action it needs (that comes next week apparently), but some. Last night was not a show stopper, but it did keep me interested, which most of the recent episodes since well before the mid-season hiatus didn’t and certainly not since the show resumed in February.
The real high point for me this episode was John shafting his mother TWICE: one when he apologized for doubting “her” – and “her” turned out to be Cameron, not his mother (should have seen the look on Sarah’s face!) and the other when she tried to cheer him up by talking by some town they used to live in – and he told her he hated that town! LOL! Her ass is on the way out as far as he is concerned. This appears to agree with Dekker’s spoiler about how Connor ends up alone by season’s end. It’s amazing how many people – fans, I’m talking about – actually called Sarah a “bitch” on the official wiki today. The character has become so unlikable that even the fans of Sarah are rebelling.
Another nice line was John’s introduction to Jesse: “If you pretend not to know who I am, I might shoot you in the head.” He should have – never leave an enemy behind you. With luck, Derek did and lied about it to John.
But the best part was John explicitly telling Jesse that even if Cameron HAD killed Riley, he wouldn’t have destroyed Cameron. That’s the John Connor who made the strategic decision in episode one not to destroy Cameron even after she tried to kill him. And it wasn’t an emotional decision, either. That’s the John Connor we should have seen all season, instead of the “hey, I’m really not a moron” reveal we got last night.
Next week Charley Dixon dies, which I view as a mistake but mostly irrelevant at this point in the story, especially since Dekker telegraphed it. They should have brought Charley back earlier on and made him part of the team. Huge valid reasons for all that.
Despite numbers increased just slightly, Last night, TSSC was fantastic! If you missed it, i strongly suggest to watch it. I honestly was not expecting a tv show to have this quality…I wanna thank to all writers, actors etc who created this fantastic show..
So, having a different opinion is being immature right? Good to know
Richard, BAG said this new project will be put second in his priorities right now, and that TSCC is still his highest priority. Also, this secret project of Summer’s is the short film she and Joss Whedon have been planning for many years now, so no surprise there. Also, actors/actresses often take on multiple projects at once (see Dekker and all the films he did).
I’m glad our numbers went up a little. We still need more, though.
Samuel: No, having a different opinion does not make you immature, but doing so in the insulting ways you have so far done certainly is. Also, asking this question in the first place proves that your level of comprehension is simply not there yet.
Veran, Dekker did his stuff pretty much during the hiatus between season one and two. He said as much in an interview, that all during season two his time was completely taken up by Terminator. He and Lena worked on their mutual projects mostly while sitting around on the set.
Shirley Manson said the same thing at WonderCon – that she was unable to progress much on her next album because of the excessive time TSCC took up, which she wasn’t aware of when she took the job. Which is why I think she probably wouldn’t be back for long even if there is a season three, because her main career is not acting.
I think Summer’s project, if it’s that Whedon ballerina thing, is supposed to be a short, so perhaps she can complete it during the “hiatus” (which will turn into forever) of TSCC now. It’s unfortunate that she had to cancel her Starfury appearance, I’m sure the fans in England will be disappointed.
BAG may say Terminator is still his priority, but I’m sure he’s told his agent to start looking for work and this is the result.
Nobody’s going to wait for a Fox decision in May to keep their career going, especially when the odds are vastly that the show is over. And especially since the ratings are so bad, they’re going to want to keep their distance from having been involved in it, even if the ratings had nothing to do with them per se.
My thoughts are these.
The not making an impact statement MIGHT be misleading. It is entirely possible that DH fans watched march madness or BSG finale. But it is just as likely that we gained fans/viewers too, thus negating the exodus to those other options.
the DVR numbers will tell all methinks. I honestly expected to see a drop in the DH numbers this year. not because of MM but because of BSG. I didn’t want to see a drop because it would seriously suggest a further gain in numbers (damn did stage fright scare people away)
it’s not proof, but it is a possible theory/conclusion. i’m hanging out for those DVR numbers in a few weeks time.
Again, no one is reading what I say… Lots of shows get canceled, and I accept that reality. I accept the reality that the ratings of TSCC are bad. But once again, you keep bringing up that “YES TSCC IS GOING TO CANCEL OMG” like as if you need to inform people so that they should drop everything, and thank you for giving you this extremely valuable golden information. You can shut up now, because no one wants your opinion that it’s going to be canceled. If you have opinions about how it might NOT be canceled there may be people INTERESTED to hearing that.
This is like telling someone with cancer “Hey you’re going to die” — “ok thanks I know, but there is a chance I might not” — “No the cancer you have, you have like 5% chance to survive within a year” — “Ok I get it, but I might get lucky” — “NO, YOU’RE GONNA DIE DAMNIT DIE ALREADY.”
This is what you guys sound like… you know that? Do you realize how pointless it is to keep repeating yourselves to tell someone “hey this show will be canceled?” Sure it can be canceled, but what about the chance that it won’t get canceled? That’s more important.
But again you keep repeating “no for sure it will be canceled” and you’re bashing everyone’s hope. It’s called pessimism and it ruins economies and no one cares for your opinion of how it’s going to be canceled, so ENOUGH WITH IT.
Congratz Richard Steven Hack, at least now you know TSCC listens to its critics, but took too many chances in the middle of Season 2.
And btw, to naysayers, you’re right, since 2008 fall season, after the writer’s strike, so many new shows erupted again, that Season 2 of TSCC didn’t perform that well on Mondays, but perhaps because of the writer’s strike before, people are not use to watching as much TV and the ones that are, have great shows like 24, House, and others to catch up with. Remember, that the story of TSCC continued from Season 1, it didn’t simply reintroduce everything, it’s very serialized; it’s hard for people to get into a show without knowing the events before.
Jonathan, it’s not pessimism when it’s simply a fact. There is NO hope at all for TSCC and fans trying to be “optimistic” will just end up being disappointed. I think trying to get them to face reality is a good thing.
Jonathan, the problem with your complaint that people continually repeat that TSCC is going to be canceled is simply because a lot of fans OTHER THAN YOU don’t believe that still.
Go over to the Sarah Connor Society Web site or the official Fox Terminator wiki. Every uptick in the DVR numbers is cause of celebration, despite the fact that it means nothing to the Fox execs.
Then somebody comes over here and says, “No, TSCC has a chance”. So everybody points out, “No, it doesn’t.”
Then you come along and get upset about that.
As for TSCC continuing from season one, actually it dropped almost everything from season one. That was one of the problems with season two. The critical project in season one of finding “The Turk” was utterly ignored in season two. While you need to know who the characters were and why Cameron got blown up in episode one, after that it was mostly stand alone episodes. That was a Fox mandate and it was both a bad idea and poorly handled by Friedman. In fact, Thomas Dekker said explicitly that the “Blood Wall” stuff irritated the writers and they were happy to drop it in the back nine.
But that could have been handled differently. The writers can’t blame all of season two’s problems on Fox.
The bottom line is that the people tuning in to TSCC wanted to see TERMINATOR, and they didn’t get that. That’s why the ratings fell. Everything about the show was actually great – acting, writing (mostly), directing, effects – except the two critical elements: focus and pacing.
Cramming that in to the last four or five episodes just doesn’t matter. And I’m still not sure Josh is going to handle the last three episodes right either. Last night was a decent shot, but there are still elements to be resolved that could go either way.
I still remember that Summer Glau wasn’t happy at WonderCon about how Cameron was handled. So I think Josh is still going to screw up in the next three episodes. I just hope I’m wrong so the show goes out leaving me with a reasonably good feeling about it, rather than a sour taste in my mouth.
These Friday night blogs prove one thing loud and clear to anyone with a rational thought process. It’s truly scary the lengths people will go to, to convince themselves to believe a lie. Not only that, but the fact that any rating less than 5 million viewers on any other major network is considered atrocious, while 3.7’s and 4.1’s are considered as great for TSCC and DH.
I don’t care what night of the week it is for a major tv network. Three million to four million viewers for a new episode of anything is ridiculously bad. If these same ratings were assigned to According To Jim, Better Off Ted, Kings, or any other new series, there would be a major uproar questioning the common sense of the network executives as to why the show was still airing on tv. It’s astounding to see the total lack of judgment some people have when looking over a ratings chart. How pathethic must it be when a show is getting beat by Howie Do It? (lol)
I’ve actually watched both TSCC and DH. While I do like the TSCC, I’m well aware that it’s ratings stink. As someone already said, Brian Austin Green has a new series in development with the CW network, so that is pretty much the writing on the wall. DH, I just flat out didn’t care for, but that’s just me. However, the ratings speak for themselves. And if FOX can get the same numbers or better for cheaper programming such as Fifth Grader and Lyrics, it’s pretty much a no brainer as to what they will decide to do…. back to reality.
Jonathon, it’s not pessimism. The show is not being renewed that decision has been made and told to Warner.
1. I love the waste of space here debating whether something is good, mediocre, or bad. Questions of value are cultural and ideological. There are no scientific standards by which one can say x is good, x is bad, x is mediocre. As the evidence here shows people disagree as to whether an episode of TSCC is good, bad, or mediocre.
2. Thus this debate over whether an individual show is good, bad, or mediocre is macho chest pounding. Presumably it makes the person doing it feel good about him or her self. It is thus about social and cultural psychology rather than objective value judgements. But, hey don’t let me stop you from playing Tarzan.
3. All of us, of course, make value judgements. I think Great Expectations and The Master and Margarita among the finest novels ever written. I found the one Eye of the Needle mediocre if entertaining. I think Celine et Julie vont en bateau, Citizen Kane, The Searchers, three of the greatest films ever made. I find Star Wars among the most overrated mediocrities ever put on film. I judge Buffy, Fawlty Towers, Dekalog, Life on Mars (UK), and dueSouth to be among the finest TV programmes ever made. I like FNL. I enjoy Lost and BSG. I find Flashpoint mediocre (caveat: haven’t watched much of it so whether I can generalise on the basis of two episodes is an open question). I grew up in a film culture that appreciated patience and am not numbered among the MTV generation who seem to have an attention span of 3 minutes between shot em up, bang em up, drive cars around fast, kill em up, and sexy chicks. In other words, I am too old to appreciate the junk made for the 15-32 pimple brigade (up yours Spielberg and Lucas).
4. We will know which shows get cancelled when they get cancelled. However since there are so many prophets here can any of you tell me what the stock market is going to do in thirty days?
You can see Dollhouse and FNL “free” (you have to watch ads so if you think that is free well…) at hulu.com. Both, I believe, are letterboxed.
I would still be interested in the hulu and itunes numbers for Dollhouse.
Is there an Ibsen reference here?
Nick C: Care to provide some proof for that? I’m not debating whether or not that is what will ultimately happen, since it will, but to say it has already happened without any proof isn’t doing yourself any favours for proving your claimed credibility.
Majarvis, exactly what proof would be feasible for Nick to produce? No Fox exec is going to back him up for reasons already stated – they don’t want to agitate the advertisers any more than they have. They have no reason to make a public statement about TSCC’s fate, as Bill and Robert have pointed out.
Nick clearly doesn’t have any signed documents and couldn’t get them for the same reasons.
At some point, it’s likely that the sets will be struck on the WB lot, and if somebody else reports that, that will be all the proof needed. But unless that is done before the May 18th deadline, that won’t be proof either.
So berating him for lack of “proof” is meaningless. Take his word for it or don’t, nobody cares and it does nothing to prove or disprove his credibility.
Richard Steven Hack says: “So berating him for lack of “proof” is meaningless. Take his word for it or don’t, nobody cares and it does nothing to prove or disprove his credibility.”
Hmmm, I’ll remember that the next time I have something that can be used to prove my point but has no proof. I’ll tell them it’s okay because Richard Steven Hack on the Internets says so.
@Richardstevenhack
You seem to be the only person on the internet with info that Summer cancelled her UK con in April care to elaborate?
Aww, man! No more Summer as Cam???
And I really think they’ll keep dollhouse. I mean, there’s plenty of episodes to go in season one….
My guess: DH gets a pickup for 9-13 eps IF AND ONLY IF the numbers stay at 1.5 or better. T:TSCC is dead, dead, dead.
majarvis, all I can do is keep posting what I hear. I hear these things from the executives themselves. Murdoch made the decision so it’s not going to be overturned unless he himself changes his mind. My track record is rather good. I have reported cancellations that were verified within hours of my posting them. This is not a circumstance where validation is going to come into play.
FOX is going to air the last 3 episodes and be thankful they never have to air another.
“My guess: DH gets a pickup for 9-13 eps IF AND ONLY IF the numbers stay at 1.5 or better. T:TSCC is dead, dead, dead.”
Or they could renew Dont Forget the Lyrics for a cheaper cost and a 1.8 demo.
RJ: there are intangibles. There are always intangibles.
…but not for T:TSCC.
RJ, except DFTL averages a 1.3 demo in the C3s. DOLLHOUSE is averaging a 1.8 in the demo in the C3s (which next season would be a 1.6). FOX will make more money this season off of DOLLHOUSE than DFTL. If it was down to only those two shows, it would be a no brainer. You pick up DOLLHOUSE. It is business.
However, Pete wants FOX to compete on Thursday and Friday. They’re halfway there with Thursday. DOLLHOUSE does compete on Friday, but it must trend up. If it trends up it’s likely staying. Still I don’t think it’s likely.
DOLLHOUSE is trouble for the reason that Remote Free looks like it’s on the way out, so borderline profitable now wouldn’t necessarily be profitable next season. Also, shows like DH quite often trend down as they settle to a natural weekly audience, so if it’s just about profitable now, the danger of it slipping into the opposite is absolutely there.
If I was looking at it strategically, I’d think about ordering another 13 episodes for next mid-season, and pair it up with something like BONES on another night. Live+SD, it’d do just over 2.0 I suspect. Although the possibility of it slipping is there.
One thing which plays against DH is that it’s reasonably expensive – I think it’s $1.5m-2m an episode – plus the set is taking an entire sound stage up at Fox. (Trust me, it’s huge). It’s not the kind of 13 episodes series (like Reaper) networks tend to gamble on.
I’m holding out to see a few more weeks numbers before I call it either way.
Nick C: I’ve said this before and you have conveniently skimmed over it and avoided it; just because you predict something *without validation or sources cited*, anything you say is *still speculation and rumor*. Just because it may have come true “within hours” in the past does not change the fact that it was and still is speculation until it comes true. For all we know, you’re just really, really lucky with your assumptions. What part of that do you not understand?
I think Dollhouse’s Episode 6 was effectively the show’s real pilot (and I really believe the creators saw it that way, which is why much of the show seemed to be about re-introducing the show’s concepts), so it’s from here we need to look at audience figures. I suspect they’ll be higher next week. If they’re not – even if they’re about the same rather than lower – then it’s a problem, but I find it hard to believe it’s not going to grow its audience for next week.
FOX executives can change their minds if given good enough reason to do so, but TSCC would need a combination of hugely increased numbers and JF’s solemn promise that Season 3 will be a goldmine. I have every faith in the latter, but the former is failing at the moment. Reviews for the latest episodes are being optimistic about a third season, but they don’t make the decision. And apparently FOX told JF to go back and beef up the last episodes after previewing the Sarah-centric ones, so maybe they could have a more active hand in the direction of Season 3.
But still, we need those damn numbers and one helluva DVR increase.
gossi, your argument is flawed: If DH/FRINGE would be more profitable with Remote Free right now, why would FOX want to abandon it? That makes no sense. And it’s easy to estimate that Remote Free loses FOX money: I’ve read about a 25-30% increased spot price and C3 ratings that are maybe 20% higher than normal. But with only half(?) of the usual commercials that’s not enough.
I think the next two weeks will be decisive for DH: Can get higher without BSG/NCAA? If not (or not much), the last straw will be PRISON BREAK. If that permanently increases the demo to 1.7/1.8, FOX probably will give it another chance.
Neither FOX nor Warner have officially said anything about T:TSCC yet, and I doubt they will for months due to the TERMINATOR movie coming out in May. I think T:TSCC fans will be left in the dark for a long while. But make no mistake, if it’s not announced at the upfronts (in May), it’s not coming back (because that is when they sell the advertising for the show). I think they will likely announce DOLLHOUSE’s fate at the upfronts, or a few days before, depending on which way it goes. Reason for not delaying it – they need that sound stage cleared.
@Richard: FOX have already said they probably won’t continue Remote Free TV. They had difficulty finding advertisers who wanted to pay the premiums. It might have something to do with the economy being in the toilet.
@Richard in case you are wondering, the premiums were 50% at first (which is why it was more profitable), but they had to significantly discount to get the space sold.
Another notable thing is that DOLLHOUSE was sold at the upfronts, then moved to mid-season on Friday. From an advertising sale point of view, that’s very significant.
@gossi: Yeah, that certainly seems to be the case, but it’s likely FOX may keep the show on the side until after the movie premieres, and then maybe make a final decision then. I think FOX have enough interest left to see if the show can be a profitable venture with a third season. Dodge may be interested in maintaining their sponsorship when and if the show is picked up.
Whatever might happen, I’m certain WB will have a contingency plan of sorts. They at least know how profitable this show is to keep on the air, though I would prefer it stay on FOX rather than go through the long-winded process of finding a new network, unless WB can stick it on one of their channels.
Veran, Fox isn’t going to keep anything “on the side”, if it’s not in the schedule announced by May 18, only the truly delusional will hold out hope.
Veran, No, FOX will announce their schedule at the upfronts, before the movie premieres. The decision on TSCC will be made before then.
Sigh…I seem to be in the habit of posting just after someone else gives the same answer…
@Bill – Oh, trust me, people will still be posting here saying it still has a chance after it being (potentially) missing from the upfronts. It always happens. Then about August time rumours will go around that The CW or some such are going to pick it up. That’s another common fan thing. (Happened with ANGEL, FIREFLY etc).
It doesn’t really bother me. Sometimes hope and/or myth (they often go hand in hand) can be a good thing for people.
Veran, explain why TSCC is “profitable” to keep on the air. By most accounts, Warner had to bribe Fox to keep it on the air.
Is it just me, or is this site being increasingly dominated by people who just want to rip or defend a show?
Isn’t this a ratings site?
TSCC is profitable to WB, hence why they lowered the price for FOX. If FOX definitely decides to pull the plug, as it seems they will, then WB will want to look for another network and will likely stick it on one of their own if places like SyFy (stupid name) won’t have it.
As for FOX not saying anything about TSCC, whether to confirm a cancellation or a renewal, they have no power to “hold” a show if they’re never going to greenlight another season, so WB will look elsewhere.
Which is exactly what Nick C is saying – that Fox has already told WB it will not air a third season.
Which, for some reason, Majarvis needs a notarized statement from a Fox exec to prove.
The logic is that the WB will want an answer from Fox sooner rather than later so as to determine how to mesh TSCC’s future (if any) with the T-4 release, if at all.
So Fox isn’t going to wait until May to tell WB. They’re likely to wait until May before announcing – or not announcing at all – that TSCC won’t be on Fox any more.
Which means if Nick is wrong and Fox hasn’t told WB yet, they have six weeks or less to do it in. They’re not going to tell WB on May 17th.
All of which supports Nick C’s statement. Not to mention that I see no reason why Nick C would particularly bother to make this business up. Whereas I see a lot of reason why Majarvis won’t believe it for his own reasons.
Nick C: 1. Majarvis: 0
Richard, you’re probably right in this regard, but for all we know this may be FOX’s initial decision that may not become absolutely final until May 17th. Let’s say that in the highly unlikely event that the last three episodes somehow pull in 5 million viewers, would FOX still want to cancel it then? I mean, they could decide to give it another shot in the week before their announcements.
I suppose as the saying goes: “There is no fate but what we make for ourselves.”
In other words, nothing is written and anything is possible.
Anyway, I hope WB are able to find another home for it should Nick C prove to be correct.
Veran, their reasons for lowering the price had everything to do with T4 and nothing to do with TSCC’s profitability.And they didn’t just lower the price. Just ask Nick- they agreed to run some ads with Fox as well.
If the price for TSCC was lowered for TSCC, where’s all the cross-promotion been? There are three more episodes left in the season and then a month and a half left after that until the film is released. When do the two “connect,” for lack of a better term? I’m not trying to say anyone’s wrong; I’m just trying to make sense of it all…
@Noah: I dunno. Dodge is still in the game, I think. Derek still drives a Dodge RAM.
Mal, I got my info about Summer and Starfury from a guy on the Superiorpics celebrity pic site in a thread about Summer.
Lemme check the Starfury site and see if they’ve said anything.
Nope, nothing there, but I can’t access the forums since I’m not registered there, so I don’t know. Might be true, might not. The site isn’t big on having a News page, apparently.
But I wouldn’t be surprised. If she knows TSCC is dead, or even if not, she’d be doing projects during the hiatus and that might well interfere with convention appearances during the same time period.
Veran, my point was that it’s highly unlikely that WB wants to wait on Fox’s “final decision on May 17th”. They would want a decision as early as possible once the TSCC season ends – or before. Nick says that decision has been made. The logic supports that is all I’m saying.
Based on the tiny 150,000 increase in viewers this week, TSCC is going to be no where near five million LIVE viewers by end of season. And the demo isn’t going to be 2.00 or over.
We’ll have to look for another network then. SyFy hopefully, or maybe that TNT that some people mention, or if worst comes to worst, the CW network.
I can’t remember the arguments, since I don’t watch the CW, but I believe that’s been dismissed as a possible TSCC sale as being a bad fit. Maybe somebody can refresh the argument here.
I think the gist of it was that it’s a young female demographic, and TSCC doesn’t fit that. Somebody (Hibbard?) was discussing the possibility of another Star Trek spinoff TV series if the movie this year is a smash, and they said that about the CW being very much the wrong venue for a sci-fi show like Star Trek. That would probably go double for TSCC. although the strong female leads might appeal.
TNT has one show I really like, “Leverage”, that’s been given a second season, I believe. Don’t know if TSCC would fit since I’m not familiar with their lineup.
TNT has Angel (Buffy spin-off) and it did pretty good on there. WB own TNT, so they could fit it in if they are determined. It would be interesting if TSCC performs better as a cable show than a network show.
Well, if WB owns TNT, then if they want TSCC to stay on the air, it would seem logical to put it there, depending on other factors such as whether it would upset their proposed lineup for next season and whether it makes economic sense. Maybe they would “retool” and “reboot” it and schedule it for next spring as I believe you or someone here suggested.
That would be nice, depending on where the show goes from there story wise, of course. If we got at least one more season out of it, that would be good.
Back up a moment. Nick C, at 12:07 yesterday you said Rupert Murdoch made the decision to cancel T:SCC?
I’m curious, because I didn’t think Murdoch micromanaged Fox like that, is Murdoch that involved in those kinds of decisions? Or did Murdoch override Reilly who wanted, despite the unbelievably awful ratings, to keep it on air?
You know how a central plank of the ‘Dollhouse is fine’ argument is that Sky One in the UK are paying a lot of money to show it?
http://www.digitalspy.com/broadcasting/a150241/sci-fi-acquires-dollhouse-knight-rider.html
No … they’re not. Sky One didn’t want it. It’s part of a job lot deal for Sci-Fi (which is even lower profile there than in the US) and Sci-Fi only bought it because they wanted to keep showing Buffy. There’s no way they’re paying the $600,000 an episode that it was reported Sky One would pay.
How does that alter the figures, Nick C?
DOLLHOUSE was Excellent…Now we’re off and running – I said I would stick to this show as long as SARAH is on…now DOLLHOUSE has something goin’s on…WOW…I don’t know why they didn’t start this way…but it has some parallels to the days of the TV show “ALIAS” & the villians of SD-6…
Hmmmm…Season 2 anyone…anyone…??????
Steve you’d be surprised how much Sci-Fi can and do pay for some of their content – they paid a fair amount for first run rights to Heroes season 1 and (along with others) pushed the BBC into making a big deal for exclusive rights to season 2 of the show and beyond. In general terms Heroes is a good marker of what Sci-Fi is capable of because the BBC only picked up Heroes after it got comparatively good numbers for Sci-Fi and received good press. ITV have did the same with Dexter, which airs first on FXUK a channel that’s not a big audience getter either.
My guess is that Sci-Fi probably aren’t paying £600k an episode although I wouldn’t go on the record as stating that as fact but I will say that part of my reason for saying that is that they aren’t buying exclusive rights to the show, just what they did with Heroes first run rights. In theory Fox is still open to sell the show to other networks, which may become easier if like Heroes before it, Dollhouse attracts decent numbers. It’s entirely possible that if the show performs well on Sci-Fi the BBC, ITV, Channel 4, Five or any other number of networks will look at airing the episodes as well, which essentially means Fox will get paid twice.
I can also tell you that Sci-Fi didn’t buy Dollhouse because they wanted to keep airing Buffy because I don’t think air it to begin with. I believe Sky still owns the Buffy repeats. Although I suspect you probably meant Angel (which Sci-Fi does air) but again they wouldn’t have brought the two as a package deal as in ‘if you want Angel you have to buy Dollhouse’.
Sky One… smart move not wanting Dollhouse. The show sucks!
Steve, Sky 1 is still going to air DOLLHOUSE. SCI-FI UK will be airing it first. It does change the landscape a bit. It makes the show more profitable.
I’m amused by all the people saying the show is “expensive,” and then stating the $1.5M to $2M price tag per episode for the show. The show is averaging around $1.65M per episode according to one person I talked to. That isn’t expensive. That’s pretty cheap. It’s right up there with BURN NOTICE and many hour long cable shows (but not PSYCH, that show is extremely cheap).
Steve, scratch that. Sky1 may have sold the first run rights to SCI FI UK. I’m not sure but if so Sky1 just made it more profitable for them. FOX execs have said the show is profitable, due to over seas sales, product placement, and upfront advertisement buys. Throw in the DVD sales, and they should be happy even if they cancel it.
Alex Sci-Fi always aired Buffy The Vampire Slayer, as they renewed their right to Buffy and Angel. I think they also bought Knight Rider (but theres no hope for that). I think though if Dollhouse moves to Sci-Fi UK that makes it less profitable as the currently best performing shows on that channel is Eli Stone which on the second week of march on pulled in 0.19 million. I personally think Sky1 may have sold the rights as they felt Dollhouse wouldn’t really perform: and based on the current US numbers I don’t blame them.
Sci Fi, on average, pay around 40,000 GBP for a first-run hour of imported drama. The report states that Dollhouse is part of a deal that includes Angel and Knight Rider – they’ve *had* to buy it, to keep Angel.
You claimed that Sky had paid 400K GBP an episode … even assuming they were allowed to, why would they sell it to Sci Fi for 40K? They value the first run rights at 400K (half as much again as Heroes after it was a hit and there was a bidding war? more than Fringe, 24 and House?) then sell them on for 40K? Meaning that they value first-run rights at 40K and *repeat* rights at 360K?
Does that make sense to you? Taking your Whedon specs off just for a second and putting your logic specs on, would that make sense?
Every report in the UK has Sci Fi showing it *instead* of Sky One. Oh, and the Guardian said ‘all thirteen episodes’.
Or, in other words, every episode is making about $540K less than Fox thought it would make. On a per episode budget of $1.5M.
“The report states that Dollhouse is part of a deal that includes Angel and Knight Rider – they’ve *had* to buy it, to keep Angel.”
No it doesn’t and no they didn’t.
The report does not say that Dollhouse and Knight Rider are part of a package deal and if it did it would be wrong. Knight Rider and Dollhouse are owned and sold by two different production companies, Sci-Fi has not brought them as a package deal. They are seperate deals announced at/around the same time.
Meanwhile Dollhouse and Angel are both owned by the same company (Fox) but Sci-Fi were not forced into buying Dollhouse so they could keep Angel – they did not *have* to buy Dollhouse to keep Angel repeats. Again this is two seperate deals announced at the same time. Is it possible that the two deals are linked and that both sides leveraged Angel to get a better Dollhouse deal? Yes. Did Fox force Sci-Fi to pick-up Dollhouse or lose Angel? No.
And Fin Sci-Fi does not and to my knowledge never has aired Buffy nor does the deal to air Dollhouse in anyway, shape or form include the rights to Buffy repeats. I was however wrong when I said Sky still owns them, apparently FX does.
@Richard: Yeah, I agree with you there. TSCC should be retooled to a degree. That’s not to say that JF and the writers haven’t done a good job (because despite your hate of JF he does know how to write seriously good episodes), it’s just the overall show lacks that Terminator feel it needs to gain a wider audience.
I think TSCC can do very well on a cable channel (like TNT) if they rethink their approach to the show a little. I don’t want it to change too much, but I do want it to be more in keeping with what makes Terminator “Terminator”. That means no more Crazy Sarah episodes and the like. If every episode can be as good as last week’s, which I know the writers are capable of doing, then this show will kick ass on cable.
Also, JF really needs to let go of his “no spoilers” policy. I know the guy wants to keep us guessing with each episode, but the FOX trailers could be far more engaging if he’d allow a little more interest (I know he has no decision in this regard, but he does send the advertisers a list of “Do’s and Don’t’s”). Hell, even the Canadian trailers are far more engaging than the US.
Final numbers for TSCC = 3.72 million according to this site:
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=243253
I hope we can at least break the 4.0 mark, for all the good it will do.
Veran, I never said Josh can’t write good episodes. If you LIKE “Crazy Sarah” stuff, it’s very well done. It’s just the wrong focus for the show if you want to keep ratings.
If Josh wants to write that stuff, he should move over to some family drama and steer clear of science fiction franchises that emphasize major action.
In general, I distinguish between the TSCC writers ability to produce decent dialog and plots from their somewhat poorer ability to deal with logical blunders from the perspective of the overall concept.
In other words, they do things like having the Connors leave a trail a blind cop can follow and ignoring the consequences of that, while at the same time any particular plot concept is okay.
I’ve argued all season long that the best way to come up with decent plots for episodes is to follow the internal logic of the circumstances the Connors are in and set those circumstances firmly in the real world.
For example, in the real world, they (anybody with a brain!) would have followed up on the nuclear plant incident, on Dr. Sherman’s death, etc. They wouldn’t have ignored those things. And doing that follow up would have led them directly to Zeira Corp and Weaver and John Henry.
The problem for that is it means you’ve compressed the overall season plot development into about two episodes and not given Weaver any time to develop John Henry. Well, gee, that’s exactly what we WANT! Faster plot development!
You can always throw in complications that prevent the Connors from immediately being able to deal with what they’ve discovered. That’s real world, too. You can’t always deal with a problem right away.
But at least they’d look like they knew what they were doing instead of looking like idiots because they completely IGNORED “The Turk” for the entire season!
Same problem with all the “we gotta save somebody from Skynet” emphasis in the stand alones this season. Job One is stopping Skynet from ever existing. You do that, you don’t NEED to worry about either Terminators coming after John or saving random Resistance people.
It’s just a matter of focusing on the real circumstances they’re in and not bothering to try to come up with “cool” stuff or “explore” stuff like Sarah’s deteriorating mental state. You weave that stuff in where you can if it’s that important to you, but you focus on the real world that people can relate to as well as enjoying the drama and tension and momentum that real world problems produce.
Another example: Within a couple episodes of Chromatie being gunned down, Skynet should have sent another Terminator after John – this time a T-1000! Yeah, a SECOND T-1000 in the show! Imagine what you could do with that! Because that’s what Skynet would have done after T-2!
It’s not hard to come up with show concepts that fit the Terminator concept and would have kept this show at six million viewers and a 2.5-3.0 demo.
But the shows as written were generally written well and very believable (except for the real world stuff they ignored.)
They need a script consultant. My rates are cheap.
How much product placement does Dollhouse have? Has anyone spotted anything?
Richard, drop in the ratings is primarily due to the change of day from Monday to Friday. Its Monday averages are 2.73 (18-49) and 5.75, which is greater than already renewed show, Till Death. And these numbers are for the first 13 eps which you do not like that much. So they already got those numbers without using “show concepts that fit the Terminator concept”.
For the Friday thing, you cant expect to beat a show with strong numbers (GW) by simply putting another show whose vievers generally do not watch on that day. Fox must be patient on both DH and TSSC if wants to make Fridays as a day suitable for scripted shows. Or must air shows suitable for people such as housewives etc, who watch tv Friday nights.
I m sure either DH or TSSC get better (and acceptable for renewal) ratings if they would be aired in different day.
I have been watching it since the first episode. It seems to be getting a little better each week.
Steve Jeffers, I’m not a fan of Whedon. I don’t know the exact details of DOLLHOUSE, I just know that FOX has said that it’s profitable and why. I assume they sold it to Sky1 like others reported. I heard they got a good price, which made me assume it was likely around $600K or 400K GBP. SCI FI UK paid more than $60K per episode. That is no where near the going rate. I don’t know the details, but I wouldn’t be shocked to find that FOX sold the UK air rights to SkyOne and then they sold first run rights to SCI FI.
The details don’t matter, the fact that the show is profitable does matter.
Why don’t tv
Why doesn’t the networks try out new show ideas online first and then taken them to air? I mean why not have 3 show ideas, 5 episodes, run time 45mins each and then ask viewers to rate them online with comments about what worked and what didn’t. Then take the show(s) that’s most successful and air it in the summer months. If it’s a hit then add it to the regular schedule. It’s not perfect but it better than wasting people’s time with shows that will eventually get cancelled. Just a thought.