…with the exception of Chuck, the overall Live+7 rating with 18-49 year olds continued declines from prior weeks. This data is for the March 6, 2009 episodes of Dollhouse and Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles and the March 2, 2009 airing of Chuck. The increases by DVR for TSCC are very impressive on a percentage basis, but unfortunately the absolute numbers (1.5 rating with 18-49s in TSCC’s case) matter much more.
Bill will post the the full DVR top twenty lists later, but here’s the 18-49 data for those three shows.
| Show | Live+SD 18-49 Rating | Live+7 18-49 Rating | %increase |
| Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles | 1.03 | 1.50 | 45.6% |
| Dollhouse | 1.51 | 2.11 | 39.7% |
| Chuck | 2.42 | 2.90 | 19.8% |
I hope that NBC will take note of this when it comes time to decide to renew Chuck.
Robert, any idea how much this matters to the networks? Or, are they really only concerned with live + same day?
1.0… that must “Ourselves Alone”. Hmm… 1.5 including DVRs. *thinks*
David, historically it hasn’t mattered any. Given the absolute numbers, it won’t likely matter for TSCC at all. Given bubble show statuses for Chuck and Dollhouse, it may factor into the thinking, but I’d imagine only a little more.
I’m guessing all that really matters is the commercial (C3 — commercial viewing live plus 3 days of DVR viewing) viewing that matters most. Unfortunately we don’t see that but you can more or less triangulate around it on a relative basis with live+SD and live+7.
Veran, actually both numbers include DVR, but the first number only includes same day DVR viewing (up to 3am Saturday morning). The difference measured here was live+7 vs live+SD (commonly reported numbers) and not live plus seven versus live (which would account for ALL DVR viewing), but since we see the SD DVR viewing in the overnights, it seems the more useful comparison.
What is so valuable about 3 days versus 7? Are the cars being advertised not available after 3 days? Do cans of soup vanish from store shelves?
Will, it’s what the TV networks and advertisers could come to common agreement on as far as DVR viewing. historically most of the viewing happened in the first three days anyway (at least for shows), but I haven’t seen day of week breakouts in a while. Aside from movies, I agree the shelf-life of the ads is greater than 3 days. It’s also important to note that from what we’ve seen, the advertising viewing via DVR doesn’t bump the viewing up nearly as much as it does for show viewing (most fast forward through the ads most of the time).
Yeah, but Fringe and Dollhouse have an advantage over other shows in that people are less likely to fast forward through 60 or 90 seconds of commercials.
It’s still a matter of debate as to whether FFing through commercials is as useless as advertisers believe. A person’s awareness and focus is improved while FFing cos’ they have to concentrate in order to stop when the episode starts. This means they remember the ads better than if they were watching at normal speed, cos’ then they could just zone out or go and make a cuppa.
I dunno if advertisers widely share this POV. I hope they do, otherwise what use is the DVR?
The reduced commercials in Dollhouse work, and they work well. Every episode of Dollhouse I’ve watched, it’s essentially pointless to change the channel or even do anything away from the TV while the commercial is on. 60 seconds gives you no time to do anything, 90 seconds you can maybe grab a drink.
For my DVR viewing, I do buy into the idea that you will remember the brand, but not necessarily the commercial content while fast forwarding. You have to concentrate while zipping through them, so you are very intent on the screen. If I were an advertiser I’d make sure my commercial could be viewed live but also had a prominent logo displayed for the people fast forwarding.
Frank, it’s not pointless if you’re watching on the DVR and have timeshifted and have programmed your remote with a “30 second skip button”. Then “Remote Free” = “remote Friendly!” Two or three presses of the button and voila! But I agree, the benefit of the Remote Free concept is that if you’re watching live, there’s far less incentive to switch and the commercial viewing numbers do back that up.
Veran, I’m sure the debate on the value of seeing commercials whisk by as people fast-forward will persist, perhaps forever. in the meanwhile, Nielsen says it does NOT COUNT TIME SPENT FAST FORWARDING in the numbers, and so whatever value might exist is currently NOT being paid for by the advertisers.
I think the idea that people are being subconsciously “brainwashed” by the ad while fast forwarding is so much BS handed out by advertising companies (note, not ADVERTISERS – ad companies who do the ads). They’re trying to justify their work.
It’s on a par with the frequently suggested concept of using “subliminal” advertising, which has never been shown to work if I remember correctly.
It certainly isn’t likely to make most advertisers interested in DVR numbers compared to live viewers when the live viewers are next to non-existent compared to other shows.
Everybody knows word of mouth works better than advertising anyway. The ad companies have been fighting this meme tooth and nail for decades since it’s their livelihood at stake.
I think advertisers are interested in DVR numbers for the most logical reason: it provides one more data point as to whether the show is interesting to ANYBODY.
So I take the notion that FF viewers are significant to a show’s renewal based on DVR numbers with a boatload of salt.
Thank you, Richard Steven Hack. I have been studying ( for the hell of it ) textbooks on video editing etc and shows are grouped around ads, by color schemes, eye saccading, yada yada — I began taking notes. If Rory Gilmore moves a vase of orange flowers from right to left, for no ostensible reason, you will see a say Lowes ad and a whole sequence of ads with precisely arranged color orange and yellow schemes. Any old New Age acid burnout or psych professor will tell you how much color means. It’s subliminal only to the extent you ignore it. Funny how the only people who read Marshall McLuhan are in advertising. This isn’t a blog, but I encourage anyone with a pad and pen one night to keep track of this stuff. You’ll see what TV is all about, and why so far the monetizing eyeballs stuff on the Net is a pipedream. And yes, only a very skillful spinmeister could maintain that fast forwarding through ads is better than watching them. The PR folks at AIG could use a guy like that.
Live ratings are obsolete, ESPECIALLY for 18-35 year olds. Everybody records, everybody goes out on weekends and at night. (Well not everyone, but the majority do…) People download, watch online, and buy DVDs…even all legally to get their media and shows. If AMERICAN networks believe in the antiquated system of ‘ratings’ of how many people watched the show live, they’re idiots, and if decent shows get cancelled, even though they have worldwide appeal, on both DVD and online, they are absolute MORONS. (Well maybe they are in any case.) Terminator is a globally recognized franchise, FOX’s dependence on ratings will kill the show, because Americans are watching some giddy reality-TV show instead…how sad. Hopefully, WARNER BROTHERS recognizes a good product when they have it, and at least gives it to an HBO outlet, or European Television, because AMERICAN RATINGS are absolutely stupid, and ruin every good show that comes down the pike. Screw American TV networks, and American ratings. Did you know Lena Headey is british?
Well, Mac, the problem is that even many TSCC initial fans deserted or became disgruntled at the direction that show went.
The wider audience tuned in to what they thought was TERMINATOR, got a family drama and psychoanalytic study that moved at the pace of a glacier, and bailed.
It’s that simple for that show.
It doesn’t matter HOW good the writing was for the “Crazy Sarah” episodes – and it was excellent. NOBODY CARED except Josh Friedman and Sarah Connor fans.
I suspect if you polled the fan boards, the vast majority of those fans who thought the show improved in season two were probably women. Males who wanted more action, more Summer Glau and less talk probably are the disgruntled ones.
That was why the ratings went down. It doesn’t matter that more and more people switched to DVR instead of live. They did that because the show was not COMPELLING enough to watch live compared to whatever else those people do in their lives.
And THAT is what advertisers pay for – a show that allows them to advertise to live viewers, not DVR people who fast forward through the ads.
Call it the devaluing of live TV if you want. And that goes along with the devaluing of media in general, which is why you have downloaded music vs paid CDs, downloaded or DVD movies instead of theater viewership, etc. You’re right about that. Nobody wants to PAY for media anymore (if they ever did except during that historical period where digital wasn’t feasible), just ACCESS to media.
So they don’t want to pay even by watching advertising – which everybody universally despises anyway. So the ad agencies and the advertisers are screwed – and hence so are the media and the fans of that media.
But that’s the way it is. Until the disconnect between the media industries and technology is erased, a lot of media is going to be caught in the abyss.
But for TSCC, it would have helped to have the focus of the show where it belonged – on being TERMINATOR.
This is a good sign for Chuck. NBC has gotta keep this show!
The sad thing about Terminator is if they had done Season Two in the same vein as Season One, the show would have made it. But what happened was FOX wanted more procedural, and they wanted Riley. Friedman had to take that and run with it. Unfortunately they ran the complete WRONG direction. FOX, living in bizarro world, kept saying how completely they loved the creative direction of the show, and yet the cracks were coming on strong by the end of the fall to the point they had to save themselves from embarrassment and get it off Mondays.
The second part of the season has had excellent writing if you’re looking for psychoanalysis, but nothing interesting as far as what Terminator should be about. Its pretty sad actually. And now they start having good episodes again. Who’s even watching anymore? I record it and watch over the weekend. Or use to. I haven’t even watched Friday’s episode yet. I may not. I may just let them record to the end of the show and then watch them all at once. Series end. Fin.
My only hope is that Summer can find a good job on another show.
I am so hoping that Terminator will somehow will be saved. Also, I have started watching Chuck lately and I have to say I like it. I hope that is renewed as well.
I’m not surprised. Stage Fright (ep 3 DH) was enough to put anyone off. Bring on next week’s numbers!
Dollhouse shouldn’t really sit stagnant any more. some BSG fans should come on board, eps 5 and 6 should have done their work and roped people in. OTOH, people who weren’t impressed with eps 1-5 stuck out for ep 6, and if they didn’t find what they were looking for after hearing it was suppose to be a great episode, they won’t be coming back.
Either way, DH can’t afford to sit stagnant at 1.5, or it doesn’t have much chance at renewal unless Fox are counting on massive DVD merch sales to make it worthwhile, or there’s just nothing new they’d rather take a punt on.
It really is sad these days that shows don’t get much of a chance to find their own place. It’s case of prove yourself ( find the right numbers and / or demo ) in season one – if you’re lucky enough to get a full season – or snip you’re gone.
Try to please the advertisers, the networks and the fans … oh boy.
What disses me the most is that there aren’t many scifi shows anyway … just cops, lawyers, & forensics copies of copies. And every scifi show that fails is just one more nail in the coffin of scifi on TV.
FrankJ: I’d watch this past Friday’s episode and the upcoming three. They should at least be interesting. They can’t save the show but they should be a lot better than the others since the show returned. This past Friday’s episode wraps up the Jesse subplot, so that’s over and done with now.
OTOH, apparently Sarah gets her cancer…Just what we need for the last three episodes…
I keep watching TSCC hoping I’ll see the promise of “what could have been” come to fruition. But it just doesn’t happen, and down deep, I don’t expect that it really can.
Unfortunately, either Lena Headly and Thomas Dekker were just simply miscast in their roles, or they’re getting terrible writing and horrid direction. I see no likable or admirable personality traits in either Sarah or John, and so find nothing in either character that I can latch onto to feel anything for them, unfortunately. They just don’t seem to be sympathetic characters…in fact, I actually dislike them both!
I have more empathy for the personality Summer Glau can give to Cam’s blank stare and emotionless robot voicings, or Garret Dillahunt’s subtle playing of his Cromartie character than I do for either Sarah or John. In fact, take away these two main characters, and I easily find something to appreciate (or even like) about every other character, be they the good guys or bad.(Well, except for Riley, whom I just regarded as a distraction.)
So, how many others have tuned in and perhaps felt the same? And instead of hanging around like me, hoping something will change to make it all better because they like the overall Terminator storyline, or perhaps just thought T2 was one of the all-time great SF films and want to see the story continue, they just simply went away.
Maybe there’s just something really wrong at the core when the toasters are inherently more likable and have more personality than the colonialists…
Lena has done a great job with her role, she’s a brilliant actress. Dekker somewhat less so, but he’s adequate. Definitely the problem was the writers, particularly producer Josh Friedman. It all lays on his feet because his was the season 2 game plan. The writers just did what he told them to do.
Speaking of disliking Sarah, I was amazed at how many fans at the official Fox wiki called her a “bitch” this past week after she suggested to Cameron that future John sent her back to get rid of her. It didn’t even make any sense (and probably wasn’t intended to, merely to emphasize her dislike for Cameron). Even the fans are rebelling at how unlikable Sarah has become: sullen, withdrawn, paranoid, hallucinating (inconsistently from one week to the next), no plan, no focus. Even John shafted her TWICE this past week in the dialog, to her sullen dismay!
At least John has gotten a little smarter in the last episode or two.
The essence of the Terminator franchise character wise is always two humans and a (at least one) Terminator, either good or bad. That was true in all three movies: Sarah/Kyle, Sarah/John, John/Kate – plus Arnold either as the bad Terminator or the good one with another actor as the bad one.
But Friedman managed to ruin it by making the two humans highly unlikable – even stupid! – and very much NOT “heroes” of the show – while sidelining the good Terminator as either comic relief or a pitbull.
Only the bad Terminators – Cromartie and Weaver – ended up being treated appropriately.
Really sad, given the huge potential. So many capable actors, writers, directors, crew – all ruined because of one guy’s overemphasis and bad focus.
I disagree with the ill feelings toward T:SCC. Half the time I run to watch the recording first over Dollhouse (probably blasphemy in the whedonverse community, even if Summer is in it.) This past Friday’s episode was amazing. John sitting in that room when Jessie got there shot him up about 100 cool points. And don’t even get me started on Smoldering David Silver and his “did he or didn’t he?” moment. Fantastic!
Overall, the writing is solid, the acting is great, all of the people on it are beautiful. I guess it did slow down a bit at one point, so the young male demo may not be as happy…and they should have more Hot-Cameron-Smash-and-Bash. But overall I think it’s a smart show and I trust the writing and continuity. That’s a lot more than I can say for most crap on TV.
The biggest problem is that I am watching a recording. I’d much rather have it back on Mondays. I miss it on Mondays. And I’m sad it’ll be gone soon.
TSCC isn’t dead yet, why do people keep assuming that? Even if FOX cancel it, WarnerBros will surely find a new home for the show, most likely on a cable channel like SyFy, or one of their own like TNT. It’s not over yet.
Veran, every show’s producers at least claim to be shopping the show to other nets, usually on cable. None of them ever get picked up. TSCC, with ratings more embarrassing than almost any other canceled show, will not be the exception.
Richard, I would like to go on record and say that the Crazy Sarah episodes officially killed TSCC. Being a male, I wanted more action, more Summer Glau, and frankly…more TERMINATOR! I was just so bored by the crazy Sarah episodes…they added absolutely nothing to the entire Terminator mythos. And now, the show is getting better with no time left. lol
Julia, this show IS an exception. It has been from the very beginning. It ISN’T like other shows. It doesn’t follow the same route as those. TSCC is NOT something that is just going to die because the execs at FOX aren’t willing to give it a third season to right itself. Whether the show comes back as is, or under a new handle, TSCC is going to carry on. WB own cable channels. They can put it wherever they want.
Give me one example that shows that TSCC has been an exception?
Julia, *my* favorite show is *always* the exception. Regardless of who I am or what the show is
I love TSCC. I dont care about the comments of it being boring or the fact it sucks. Its the only interesting and well written show on network tv. as for the bad numbers i have a feeling if it was on at 9pm on friday night it would have Dollhouse numbers. i just think at 8pm no one watches Tv except for Ghost whisperer.
But if Dollhouse gets renewed ill never watch a FOX again. Dollhouse is one of the the worst written shows ive ever watched. i like Eliza Dushku but this show is beneath her. she should quit and try and get a decent show.
Bill, how could I forget! You’ve convinced me. TSCC will definitely find a new network.
Someone said: “It doesn’t matter that more and more people switched to DVR instead of live. They did that because the show was not COMPELLING enough to watch live compared to whatever else those people do in their lives.”
Issues with Friday night programming that are not going to go away:
1. It’s Shabbos.
2. A lot of people in the desired demo go out on Friday even if they aren’t partyparty people.
Putting a show on Friday night and not expecting the ratings to drop and recording to rise is delusional.
Recording a show can indicate greater affection for it than viewing live. If you watch two shows that are on at the same time, one of them is episodic in nature and you know once will be enough – why would you record that? You record the one you know you’re going to want to see at least twice. How does that make it less compelling? By my yardstick, it’s more so.
The problem is that there are clashing reasons for putting a show on the air and for watching it. The viewers are trying to watch a show. The people who put it on are trying to sell you stuff.
The people who are trying to sell us stuff have force-fed so much advertising into the average hour of television that many people have turned to other ways to watch just to get away from the ads.
And for the person who was concerned about the foreign franchise for TSCC being negatively impacted by American ratings – the US government does not subsidize any network other than PBS. Everything else here is pay as you go. So the comparison is not apples to apples.
Oh, dear. Dianne, the Orthodox Jewish population in this country is so insignificant, there is no way it could have an effect on Friday ratings.
Your second point holds more sway, but we already know that expectations are lowered on Fridays. That’s why CBS’s Friday lineup, though all well below .92 on the Renew/Cancel index, will most likely all be returning. (2/3 definitely, the last 1/3 is still questionable.) But TSCC has fallen well below the already very low expectations FOX had for it.
Recording a show may mean you like the show more, but it doesn’t mean you will be watching the commercials, and in fact means you likely will NOT be watching.
Television is a business. Viewers can have whatever reason they want to watch, but the business of selling ads, and making profit, is all that actually matters.
Hardi-ha-ha, Bill. I was simply saying that Warner are going to find a new place for TSCC if it isn’t renewed. I’m sure of that. Like I said; WB own a few cable channels (like TNT), so if SyFy won’t have TSCC, they can put it on one of their own. Why wouldn’t they? It’s still a successful show everywhere else in the world… well, mostly. Dunno about Germany, but that’s probably because they have dodgy dubber voices that make Summer Glau sound chinese, or so I’ve heard.
I JUST discovered Chuck last week because I had a free rental at Blockbuster. I’m now totally into this show, and sorry I couldn’t contribute to its ratings earlier.
Please give it another season.
I love TSCC but I’ve accepted that it will be cancelled due to where they took the show in the 2nd season. In my opinion, the lead on the show needed to be Summer Glau with her character Cameron the main character and both Sarah and John supporting characters. I couldn’t stand Lena Headly at first in the role of Sarah but I’ve gotten used to her. I like the actor who plays John. I like Brian Austin Green as Derek. I liked Sarah’s ex-fiance from Season 1. I liked the friend that John had at school from Season 1.
Season introduced some characters I don’t like at all (Riley, Jesse, and Weaver) and I don’t like them as actors either. The actress who played Jesse was unwatchable in the Battlestar Galactica movie: Razor. She was the main reason to me that the movie stunk (And I am one of BSG’s biggest fans) so I wasn’t happy when they added her to TSCC.
James Ellison lost all likability to me in season 2. They seem to spend more time developing the evil terminator characters like Weaver and John Henry than they spend on Cameron. The writing is also pretty bad to me in Season 2. It seems that they all relocated easily not far from where their other house was destroyed using the same ID and not changing identities. They’ve got no means of employment and living in a much more expensive neighborhood. I liked it better when John interacted more with people in season 1 when he actually attended school. To me it seems like most of the shows in the 2nd season were devoted to Weaver, Jesse and Riley rather than Cameron, John & Sarah. Some episodes devoted way too much time to Sarah for my taste – like Crazy Sarah.
Sadly they didn’t get rid of Riley & Jesse the first half of the season and make major changes in the 2nd half. I’m looking forward to the last 3 episodes and I hope to see Summer Glau in other stuff in the future.
Veran: “I was simply saying that Warner are going to find a new place for TSCC if it isn’t renewed. I’m sure of that.”
Ah, if only there was a way we could make a binding cash wager on that.
“I’m now totally into this show, and sorry I couldn’t contribute to its ratings earlier.”
Groo, when you say “contribute to its ratings” do you mean to say you have a Nielsen box? If so, you can still help out Chuck.
So when will the full list go up?
Richard, I appreciate your comments. I don’t know much about Lena Headly, but your assessment of her acting vs. the writing does make sense. I certainly see sullen and withdrawn in her Sarah.
Ordinarily, we’d feel something for the character of Sarah getting into such a state–Linda Hamilton was a single-minded, untrusting pit bull as Sarah, someone at first glance we might not care for very much. But we did like her, we understood her, and we admired her because we were shown enough to appreciate her position and understood why she became what she became. But without the benefit of Lena’s Sarah having ever been set up as a likable character (so there would be some touchstone of her personality to relate back to), her Sarah is just annoying in her moodiness.
John? I’m just not sure about him. Dekker’s probably too young and inexperienced as an actor to have the clout to offer much resistance to the John he’s bringing to life (and I use the phrase “bringing to life” most definitely in the abstract!). In T2, Edward Furlong’s John was a jerky little smart-ass who started to mature and begin growing into John Connor, Leader of the Resistance, by the end of the film. I see no glimmer of that John in Thomas Dekker’s John. Again, perhaps the writing, maybe the direction. But this John still ends up as an unsympathetic character that does not ring true as someone who will be the leader of humanity in a very few short years, and I can’t help but place some of the blame on TD for that.
As you said, John probably got a bit smarter just recently, but I still see nothing of the John that might be capable of leading humanity against the machines. Yeah, he seen was thoughtfully fingering the gizmo that would destroy Cam, so maybe that shows some degree of development (or was it just momentary confusion?), but there was nearly a whole season wasted in getting to this small step forward.
Every other actor in the series brings something to the table that I like. So aside from perhaps Headly’s and Dekker’s performances being stifled (at the least) with the writing and story line, there are a lot of good performances to be seen and appreciated. (Summer Glau is somewhat replaying her Firefly part, but she’s dang good at it!)
I do hope something will happen to allow it to survive into another season. Right now, it’s not just a matter of getting more eyes, because I don’t think it can sustain a healthy enough slice of viewership over any length of time without some degree of reinvention of the show itself.
As far as failing on network TV and moving to cable…sure, fewer viewers are needed, but without some basic change in the direction it’s headed, I still think this Terminator’s power supply gets fried, and that’s not good for the franchise, at least as far as TV goes.
I am curious as to how the DVR numbers are generated. I have Dish programming so I use that feature daily, but there is no way any ratings service can possibly know that. So, leaving Dish subscribers out of the total, where and how are the numbers determined?
I, too, am curious as to what numbers are considered for DVR viewing. I have DirectTV, and am hopeful that, even though I have no Nielson box, somehow my DVR viewing is counted?? Because surely all that data is compiled by some ominous black box and transmitted to the ratings compilers?? This would seem to me to include MANY more viewers than Nielson predicts with their small sample? Maybe?
Folks, Nielsen only measures the DVR (and Live) viewing for Nielsen families. They don’t have a secret link into all the DVRs in America.
Although it is an interesting conspiracy starter!
However, cable companies could easily collect and report DVR numbers for non-Nielsen boxes.
“However, cable companies could easily collect and report DVR numbers for non-Nielsen boxes.”
Which is why shows like TSCC would do a lot better on cable.
….
Yeah, I got nothing.
@Julia: Was that directed at me?
My point was that TSCC as a cable show would be more successful because of the lower ratings demands. Our rock bottom audience of 3 million would transfer over to its new home on cable and it may (hopefully) pick up more viewers, possibly old BSG fans or whatever. Plus DVR would have more of an impact.
My point in short: Sci-fi should be left to cable if FOX haven’t the patience for it.
You quoted Jack about cable companies collecting DVR data. And somehow you took that to mean that TSCC would do better on cable. If you have cable, and you watch FOX on the DVR provided by your cable company, does that mean it doesn’t count?
Actually I agree with Veran on that last. Sci-fi is a niche market and always will be. It’s a LARGE niche market compared to, say, quadriplegic dwarf racing, but it’s still a niche and only the most exceptional sci-fi shows will ever survive on prime time.
It’s interesting that apparently quite a few people think that the direction TSCC took is in fact an appropriate rendition of the Terminator franchise on broadcast TV. It just means that there’s a niche for “Crazy Sarah” feminists and guys with the hots for Lena Headey (and I do have plenty of fantasies about Lena, trust me! – not as many as Summer Glau, but plenty. I even have fantasies about Shirley Manson. Interestingly, none about Leven Rambin…)
But you can’t make a Terminator show intended to appeal to the broad base of sci-fi and Terminator franchise fans from that hard core of Sarah lovers and get six million viewers and a 3.0 demo. It’s that simple.
Again, I’ve said repeatedly that the QUALITY of the shows in terms of acting, directing, writing (mostly), effects, etc. has been excellent in most episodes for both seasons. That was never the problem. It was the focus of the show (which led to undesirable side effects like damaging the characters status as “heroes” of the show, as RonH also pointed out) and the pacing of the overall story arc and individual episodes.
The fans always point to how great the show is from an acting, etc., standpoint. Sure. Totally true. The show died because the Terminator THEY liked wasn’t the one everybody else liked and expected.
The current party line for these fans is that it died because it had one short season, one two-week layoff, one one-week layoff, a two-month layoff (and on that I agree it was a bad idea), got moved to Fridays and then Watchmen came out.
Sorry, no. ALL shows have scheduling problems at some point. If they are compelling enough for the target audience, they survive that (as long as it isn’t totally ridiculous, which the networks sometimes make it.) TSCC was already on the way down by the middle of its first 13 episodes.
The other party line is that serials are too complicated and TV audiences are stupid so no one watched.
Sorry, no. Fringe had no such problems and it’s just as serial as TSCC was this season, since TSCC had plenty of stand alone episodes. The difference was that Fringe didn’t screw with its heroes – even though a significant part of the episodes involved Olivia Dunham having hallucinations and psychological stress JUST LIKE SARAH CONNOR! – kept the overall story arc moving in each episode, and did the stand alone episodes really well.
RonH: I’d agree that Dekker needs more work on his John portrayal. I think he can do it, he just needs more direction. There were flashes of the future John in episode one and in “Goodbye to All That”. The highlight of John Connor this season was his pointing his gun at his mother and his uncle and his would-be step-father in episode one when he reactivated Cameron. Contrary to some fan’s impressions, that wasn’t an emotional decision, but a rational, strategic decision that mirrored the deleted scene from T-2 where Furlong convinced his mother to let Arnold’s chip not be destroyed. It was the first flash of the future John Connor going against everybody’s idea of how things should be done in favor of his own judgment.
Then they threw that away and made him a rebellious brat for the next fifteen episodes. Then they make a huge reveal this past week that he knew all along. Some hints along the way would have been considerably better. It pretty well proves that the writers really didn’t know what they were doing all season until the ratings demonstrated they were going to be out of a job if they didn’t get it together. Again, you have to lay all that at the feet of Josh Friedman, more so than the writers.
BTW, rereading Carol’s comments above highlights one of my main criticisms of the show all season: the lack of realism. It may seem odd to request realism in a sci-fi show about time travel, but Carol’s points about the Connors living arrangements struck a sour note with me as well, Maybe it’s because I know too much about how terrorists and criminals operate (don’t ask!), but the way the Connors operate is just too unrealistic, even compared to crime shows.
Personally I think Stephanie Jacobsen is a good actor, but there is something about her that rubs me the wrong way, too. Maybe it’s just the character she was playing, who was pretty unlikable or her voice. She looks good in a bikini, though, as the obviously gratuitous pool scene established.
Shirley Manson has done well as Weaver, despite never having acted before. It’s worth it having her there just for the flame red hair!
The problem for Richard T. Jones was just how stupid are we supposed to believe – or how stupid are WE supposed to be for believing – Ellison actually is, not picking up on how odd Weaver is – let alone going along with putting an AI into a Terminator body. Man is too dumb to live. He’s dumber than that kid Morris from last season (who I always wanted to see Cameron stuff into the trunk of a car at the prom!)
Every fan pretty much hated Riley since she was obviously a HUGE distraction from the main point of the show (except now the fans argue that the season was fine despite that!) It was only when it was revealed that she was part of Jesse’s plot did she become interesting. Leven did a great acting job making her unlikable – and the writers redeemed her very well in her last episode.
Brian Austin Green has been one of the two bright spots this season (along with Summer). He never hit a false note as Derek, despite not being as smart as he should be vis-a-vis Jesse. But everybody knew the reason for that – he hates machines, especially Cameron for reasons to be revealed.
Summer? Aside from being abused by Josh Friedman, she’s been consistently brilliant – and hot. Her two episodes devoted to Cameron were high points of the season, even though neither did much to move the overall story arc along. The richest and most fertile source of story ideas was relegated to doing the Connors laundry and being their pit bull and comic relief most of the time, though.
OMG! RichardStevenHack’s a terrorist! GET ‘EM!!!
Seriously though, you do make really good points. It’s just a shame you keep dragging JF through the mud all the time, even if he does deserve some of it. I remember you once compared him to Michael Jackson on the wiki once and Nick Stanz, aka The Turk, bitch-slapped you for it. Maybe that’s why CW terminated your contract at Zeira Corp.
Hee! “SyFy.” That’s all I got.
I really like TSCC and I like the direction in which it has moved. I’d love to see this show come back for a third season, but there are certainly some excellent ways to wrap it up after two seasons and still fit it into canon.
For those people complaining that they tuned in to see a show about The Terminator, you’re missing the point… you can only do ‘The Terminator’ so many times before it becomes stale; we already KNOW everything we need to about the terminators, but we know relatively little about the person who has always been the real central character. The show had to take on a more human face; one action show after another with unstoppable Terminators destroying everything in their path would be a VERY boring show.
No, I think that explaining how John became THE John Connor that led humanity in the fight against the machines is a much more compelling story, and I think the evolution of the character has been handled very well. John has been pulled in a lot of different directions, and he’s got to figure out that a world of absolutes (machines bad, humans good) is not going to win the war. The danger, of course, is that if he is pulled too far in any one direction, the future can fragment and lead to less than desirable time-lines (such as the one from which Jesse came.)
The other thing I think this show has introduced, that is particularly interesting, is the concept of Terminators who are not on one side or the other. I suspect that the T-1001 (Catherine Weaver) is one of these; she seems to assign some value to human life and I think she’s trying to create SkyNet in a form that will not attempt to exterminate human life.
Last night’s episode, killing Derek so suddenly, is a signficant event in John’s development. He’s now been shocked by the brutality of humanity (Jesse using and then killing Riley) and of the Terminators (who had never killed anyone truly close to him before), within a relatively short period of time. I think this is what drives home the point to him that both sides must be considered if the war is to end.
I can see this going one of two ways; if the series comes back, then it’s been hinted that Sarah actually does have cancer, so John is facing losing his mother in the not too distant future. That leaves him with Cameron, who, presumably would stay by his side and the future we have seen where she is his close confidant will come to pass.
The other route I see is one where Sarah will not survive to see John again. The introduction of a new Terminator so late in the season suggests that maybe Cameron’s end is coming, though that may also occur at John’s hand if her glitch reappears, perhaps as a result of a fight with the new Terminator?) That would leave John entirely on his own and needing to stay out of sight to survive; that would book-end nicely into T3 (yeah, yeah, not a great movie, but it is canon and, from what I gather, is the timeline on which T4 is based)