| Scoreboard |  |
 |
 |
 |
 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Total Viewers (million) | 10.31 | 6.70 | 4.32 | 3.85 | 1.81 |
| Rating/Share: Adults 18-49 | 3.6/11 | 2.0/6 | 1.2/4 | 1.3/4 | 0.7/2 |
Day two of regional semi-final coverage of the NCAA basketball tournament easily led CBS to across the board victory. Meanwhile Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles gained around 180,000 viewers and held steady in the 18-49 demo vs last week. while Dollhouse slipped by about 250,000 viewers and dropped two tenths of a point among adults 18-49. As is typical both shows were beaten by Wife Swap and Supernanny.
I’m not a Whedonista, but I have enjoyed the last couple of Dollhouse episodes (and next week’s looks pretty cool, too), but I’m pretty sure the writing is already on the wall as far as renewal goes. People will speculate over why the show lost more viewers last night, particularly in the 18-49 demographic. My speculation won’t be better than anyone else’s so I’ll leave it to everyone else. 
You can compare with previous Friday overnight reports.
Full details:
| Time | Net | Show | Viewers (Millons) | 18-49 Rating/Share |
| 8:00 | CBS | NCAA Men’s Basketball Tournament 8p-11p | 10.31 | 3.6/11 |
| ABC | Wife Swap | 5.54 | 1.7/6 | |
| FOX | Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles | 3.83 | 1.3/5 | |
| NBC | Howie Do It | 3.61 | 1.0/4 | |
| CW | Everybody Hates Chris | 1.81 | 0.7/2 | |
| 8:30 | CW | The Game | 2.01 | 0.9/3 |
| 9:00 | ABC | Supernanny | 6.52 | 2.1/6 |
| NBC | Friday Night Lights | 3.95 | 1.2/4 | |
| FOX | Dollhouse | 3.87 | 1.3/4 | |
| CW | America’s Next Top Model (R) | 1.71 | 0.7/2 | |
| 10:00 | ABC | 20/20 | 8.05 | 2.2/7 |
| NBC | Dateline | 5.39 | 1.5/5 |
Shows are sorted by viewers in each time slot.
Nielsen TV Ratings: ©2009 The Nielsen Company. All Rights Reserved. Source Marc Berman/Mediaweek.
Definitions:
Fast Affiliate Ratings: These first national ratings, including demographics, are available at approximately 11 AM (ET) the day after telecast, and are released to subscribing customers daily. These data, from the National People Meter sample, are strictly time-period information, based on the normal broadcast network feed, and include all programming on the affiliated stations, sometimes including network programming, sometimes not. The figures may include stations that did not air the entire network feed, as well as local news breaks or cutaways for local coverage or other programming. Fast Affiliate ratings are not as useful for live programs and are likely to differ significantly from the final results, because the data reflect normal broadcast feed patterns. For example, with a World Series game, Fast Affiliate Ratings would include whatever aired from 8-11PM on affiliates in the Pacific Time Zone, following the live football game, but not game coverage that begins at 5PM PT. The same would be true of Presidential debates as well as live award shows and breaking news reports.
Rating: Estimated percentage of the universe of TV households (or other specified group) tuned to a program in the average minute. Ratings are expressed as a percent.
Share (of Audience): The percent of households (or persons) using television who are tuned to a specific program, station or network in a specific area at a specific time. (See also, Rating, which represents tuning or viewing as a percent of the entire population being measured.)
Time Shifted Viewing – Program ratings for national sources are produced in three streams of data – Live, Live+Same Day (Live+SD) and Live+7 Day. Time shifted figures account for incremental viewing that takes place with DVRs which are currently in approximately 24.4% of all U.S. TV households. Live+Same Day (Live+SD) include viewing during the same broadcast day as the original telecast, with a cut-off of 3:00AM local time when meters transmit daily viewing to Nielsen for processing. Live+7 Day ratings include incremental viewing that takes place during the 7 days following a telecast.
For more information see Numbers 101.
Okay,Nick C, now do you agree that Dollhouse is done for?
Bye, bye Dollhouse! No excuses this week.
dollhouse was awesome last nite!!I couldn’t believe the hour was already over when i watched!!! I think the show is now finding itself!!! I think ppl are missing the boat on this show!!!
Be fair to Nick C. He’s been saying it looks like cancellation since the new Pete took over.
I don’t expect the sci-fi shows to grow much against March Madness. A shame, Dollhouse is entertaining (to me at least). I’d like a Dollhouse/Fringe lineup next Fall.
The only interesting game last night was MSU/Kansas. The others were boring blowouts.
Go Spartans!
ouch. Dollhouse is down nearly to FNL’s level… minus DirecTV’s footing of much of the bill.
You mean that after the magical, mystical, hunger curing, world peace delivering episode 6 of Dollhouse, ratings didn’t skyrocket?
Fridays really are sad for NBC and FOX.
Last week the excuse was BG finale, what is the excuse for this week?
ABC really gets a lot of mileage in both demos out of what must be a super cheap linup. Reminds me of Fox on Saturday sort of.
well where i live FOX lost its signal for the whole ep so maybe that could have added to the drop in viewers…. just saying i was pretty p’d off that i missed the ep
Yeah, while I love Dollhouse more than…. everything. There really are no excuses. This is just BAD.
“Fridays really are sad for NBC and FOX.”
Isnt every day but Tuesday sad for NBC?
S., Monster Vs. Aliens hit theaters, and it was the last Friday in March.
“well where i live FOX lost its signal for the whole ep so maybe that could have added to the drop in viewers…. just saying i was pretty p’d off that i missed the ep”
Do you live in a top market? If not, I doubt it had any effect.
Why don’t FOX try something radical and renew the sci-fi Friday shows, and at least leave them there to gather a steady following? Anything they put on there for a short period is bound to screw up, so why not stick with two good shows and watch them trend over time? Or is FOX too impatient for such a venture?
Anyway, glad to see TSCC up over last week. Shame about the demo though.
Rumours say it’s cancelled for good, but I still hold a little hope. Not much, but a little.
Yes, viewing always drops on the last Friday in March.
DAMN BASKETBALL!!!!!
Sorry, I just had to vent.
“Why don’t FOX try something radical and renew the sci-fi Friday shows, and at least leave them there to gather a steady following? Anything they put on there for a short period is bound to screw up, so why not stick with two good shows and watch them trend over time? Or is FOX too impatient for such a venture?”
FOX hasnt kicked them off yet, and the numbers are still dropping. If people were true fans, the numbers would stay stable. IRRC, the game shows were pretty stable. If FOX is patient with anything it will be their cheap reality shows that bring in better numbers.
“ABC really gets a lot of mileage in both demos out of what must be a super cheap linup.”
It is a season high for Wife Swap in terms of viewers. I hope ABC keeps Wife Swap as it is pretty funny.
**EDIT FOR LAST POST**
I meant IIRC (if I recall correctly), not IRRC.
RJ,
“Fridays really are sad for NBC and FOX.”
Isnt every day but Tuesday sad for NBC?
hmmm…Thursdays are pretty good too
Baring some kind of miracle over the course of the remaining six episodes Dollhouse seems to be gone.
The line for renewing Dollhouse has always consistent in that it can drop during the first half of the season but it has to start trending up during the second half of the season and apparently that’s not going to happen – when it can’t even hold steady from episode 6 to 7 things aren’t looking good and that’s a shame because I think the show has found its feet during the past two episodes but you can’t produce five truly awful episodes to start a new show and expect people to stick with it.
Go, Go TSCC…
“Fridays really are sad for NBC and FOX.
Isnt every day but Tuesday sad for NBC?
hmmm…Thursdays are pretty good too”
After the ER series finale, I bet the ratings will drop quite a lot on Thursdays. If Parks and Recreation and Southland both fail, NBC is in a lot more trouble then it is now.
Bye Bye Dollhouse …… I never honestly like this show …… FNL is still below 4 mil and at 1.2 but hopefully directv money will kick in and save the show …. It’s a shame though ……. next week’s episode of FNL is brilliant (have seen that on directv) …… It’s the state finals … Let’s hope NBC promotes that properly and we might get a little bump in the ratings …..If this show has to go might as well go with some good ratings in the end
……. BTW when are we getting the news about FNL deal guys ……. Any inside sources at directv/nbc ????
Veran, TSCC has also been getting horrible numbers on Monday. The problem isn’t that TSCC hasn’t had enough chances, it’s that it drove away the majority of its viewers.
Terminator’s ratings keep going up. I hope it isn’t too little, too late. I do think Fox eventually needs to stick with a Friday lineup and just realize that swapping around shows all the time isn’t going to help it any. Friday nights just isn’t a hotbed for Fox and probably never will be.
Terminator’s ratings have gone up the last 3 weeks in a row. Now, that they are sticking on the main storylines, the show is really picking up steam. The recent episodes have been great.
“After the ER series finale, I bet the ratings will drop quite a lot on Thursdays. If Parks and Recreation and Southland both fail, NBC is in a lot more trouble then it is now.”
The Office and 30 Rock are easily bigger shows than ER at this point and I can’t see either of them dropping on Thursdays after ER wraps. NBC is only in real trouble on Thursday if The Office dies because as long as they still have that as the main selling point of the comedy block next season they can cycle new shows in or out.
FaLCo, why would NBC promote FNL? It is subsidized to the point that apparently the ratings don’t matter, and if rumors are to be believed, will be subsidized again. Wasting money on promotion would be the most counterproductive thing possible for NBC.
dollhouse really improved since it began 6 week ago. no one is watching the show, but that is not dollhouse’s fault, actually, people enjoy their time watching supernanny (best reality ever invented..). last night episode was great, but i have to admit that after 6 weeks it’s too late for show to improve it’s ratings. i hope joss had thougt the season finale, would have been a series finale too. im really really sad the show is going to finish at it’s 13th episode..
NC unfortunately for its fans TSCC numbers aren’t going up anywhere near enough. It, like Dollhouse, needs a major upward trend over its remaining episodes to make it appealing to Fox or anyone else.
Emma I disagree the fact that people aren’t watching Dollhouse is very much the fault of the show and the people running and writing it. It debuted with a 2.0 and has bled viewers from there because its been awful. Had the first five episodes not been so bad people might have stuck with it.
NC, this is way too little, too late. Maybe if it had suddenly jumped to over 2.0 in the demo like three or four weeks ago it would have a shot, but at this point there is nothing that will save it.
“The Office and 30 Rock are easily bigger shows than ER at this point and I can’t see either of them dropping on Thursdays after ER wraps. NBC is only in real trouble on Thursday if The Office dies because as long as they still have that as the main selling point of the comedy block next season they can cycle new shows in or out.”
30 Rock will never be a hit. Last week ER beat 30 Rock in the demos.
Lipstick’s Jungle’s numbers also went up slightly toward the end. It didn’t save the show.
By the way, am I the only person who thinks that Ellison is a moron for not realizing Weaver’s a Terminator? Ellison and Weaver are both in the room, John Henry says that the virus’s creator is a lot smarter than Ellison but doesn’t say that the virus’s creator is smarter than Weaver. Everyone I knew caught that John Henry intended that as a hint.
I agree that it is probably too late for TSCC, but it is nice to see the numbers climbing. Its only chance might be to be picked up by a cable channel. Fox should have put the back 9 on AFTER the Terminator: Salvation movie came out.
“30 Rock will never be a hit. Last week ER beat 30 Rock in the demos.”
Hate to break it to you but 30 Rock has pretty much become a hit this season not a monster breakout hit but its demos are more than enough for it to hold its own and assure its own survival at this point. This week ER just beat 30 Rock in 18-49 but got absolutely destroyed in the 18-34, which is where NBC’s main strength is and will be on Thursday night. Idol, Grey’s and The Office are the only show that beat 30 Rock 18-34 Thursday Night.
Like I said The Office and 30 Rock are the bigger shows at this point and aren’t connected to how well (or not) ER or whatever is in the 10PM slot is doing.
Um, how could they have put the back nine after T4 comes out? Fox has to make a decision about what to renew BEFORE T4 comes out.
Not if they start season 3 in January ala 24.
Michael in theory they could have switched TSCC to a summer show, which would have allowed them to delay the renewal decision until after the up fronts. That would have screwed the WB over in terms of searching for a new network but I don’t think they’re going to look for a new network anyway.
NC mid season replacement will also be announced at the up fronts (I think) so switching it to a January debut wouldn’t have made a difference. But as I’ve said before I don’t think the T4 release would have helped TSCC anyway.
Holding it until summer also would have resulted in even worse numbers than it’s getting now. Does anyone really think TSCC would be doing better after a 6 month hiatus?
Holly I don’t think it would have done better but I don’t think it would have done much worse either.
Most of FNL fans already saw this season. I don’t have Direct TV and I was able to see every episode online before they started airing on NBC and I’m not computer savey at all. So if I saw all of Season 3 before it aired on NBC, trust me, most people did. And NBC knows that.
‘you can’t produce five truly awful episodes to start a new show and expect people to stick with it.’
And no doubt, when the history of Dollhouse is written by the Whedonites, that’ll be the official fan version. The reality is different.
Yeah, not a lot of people ever saw it, but the people who *did* see it didn’t stick around. That legendary ’sixth episode’ inspired … fewer people to watch it the next week. And, from last night’s episode, it’s obvious that ‘the network people got out of our way’ really means ‘the network people couldn’t be bothered any more’.
The British deal with Sky One – Fox, basically – fell through and they’ve palmed it off as part of a syndication deal with Angel for 10% of the original price. The British press release says they’ll show ‘all thirteen episodes’ of Dollhouse.
It’s a mediocre show, and there are just six episodes to go. The only debate now is how many Fox will bother showing.
I know FOX will almost certainly cancel, if they have not already (reports saying they have are not official so must be taken with some scrutiny), but a steady increase might mean something to a cable channel (probably not SyFy though). If the rumours about WB tearing down all the TSCC sets is true, which it quite possibly is not, then all this debating is pointless.
I suppose the questions remains: are the advertisers happy?
If so, would FOX keep it on the air for them?
There is also a murmur about a possible DirecTV intervention that *might* save the show, but this has less basis than that damning blog.
This is depressing as hell. Dollhouse had BSG’s competition last week. It was also an excellent episode and word of mouth should have generated good numbers. This week’s episode was also great.
The show was effectively rebooted last week. It’s much better than it was, turning from a fairly cruddy thing which didn’t do enough to suspend disbelief into a hilarious, scary, discomforting ride. It’s a show I’m finding hugely enjoyable. I’m going to be seriously unhappy about its cancellation.
As far as strained excuses go, the only one I can come up with is that this week’s T:SCC didn’t follow in the spirit of last week’s and soon became the same tiring depressive angsty crap with the whiny John Connor in place of the one we saw last week. So it’s slightly possible that Dollhouse suffered from people turning off their TVs (or at least tuning into other stations) while watching T:SCC. I’d be curious to know if the second half of T:SCC had poorer ratings than the first half.
Yeah, I know, it’s a stretch. I’m finding it hard to believe people who have watched 6 and 7 think it’s not compelling, and that’s perhaps my problem. Still, there lots of people who post here who think sitting down for sixty minutes watching two manic depressives explore their relationship with a killer robot is compelling TV.
“Yeah, not a lot of people ever saw it, but the people who *did* see it didn’t stick around. That legendary ’sixth episode’ inspired … fewer people to watch it the next week. And, from last night’s episode, it’s obvious that ‘the network people got out of our way’ really means ‘the network people couldn’t be bothered any more’.”
When you start with a 2.0 (a very healthy number for a Friday) and bleed viewers over the episodes that follow then you can very easily and correctly say that the problem was and is that the early episodes weren’t what people wanted. The premiere was above what a lot of people predicted it would do the problem is that the majority of the people who watched it didn’t like and then didn’t like the episodes that followed so they bailed.
The ‘magical’ sixth episode was only a ‘magical’ sixth episode to anyone who knew about it and that isn’t the majority. The key to success for Dollhouse was always word of mouth over the second half of the season and as I said that doesn’t appear to be working. Of course the increased NCAA competition probably hasn’t helped matters either.
“The British deal with Sky One – Fox, basically – fell through and they’ve palmed it off as part of a syndication deal with Angel for 10% of the original price”
Dollhouse was not sold as a package deal with Angel repeats.
The fact that Angel repeats perform well for Sci-Fi no doubt helped Sci-Fi in their decision to pick the show up but Sci-Fi chose to pick the show up when Sky passed on it.
Ugh, I hope Dollhouse is canceled soon. I can’t stand how they parade the women around on there (every episode they’re half naked) to be objectified, makes me sick. No surprise, the creator seems really chauvinistic in articles he’s given.
The problem with using ratings to determine dollhouse’s success is that these viewership ratings are outdated. Everyone I know watches the show online, nerds still have social lives on Friday nights.
Dave, Fox can certainly measure all the viewing that happens on Hulu as well as get the info on any iTunes downloads, etc. It will not save the show. Even if 20% of its viewing was online (and I’d guess it’s much, much less) it won’t matter, but feel safe that FOX has access to that data too.
The ‘everyone I know…’ thing might not be the best way to judge the majority of the population unless of course you know the majority of the population. The ratings system is flawed but its still the best system we’ve got and online viewing right now isn’t anywhere near big or profitable enough to make a difference.
Random question though, do the people you know watch it online legally?
G are you a girl?? hu, so i can say you are a real puritan to say it: any show airing on american television aims to sex and naked women/men. this is what people want to watch, this is what male want to watch to turning them on, and fox know it. this is the real reason the network wanted the first 5 episodes to be ”all male content”.
Alex, it’s extremely easy to watch legally online (if you live in the United States) on the FOX site or Hulu.
“The problem with using ratings to determine dollhouse’s success is that these viewership ratings are outdated. Everyone I know watches the show online, nerds still have social lives on Friday nights.”
Awesome. I was wondering when someone would think of that, because we totally haven’t heard that argument before. Unless you are talking about 4 million of your closest friends, you’ll just have to get over it.
Besides, no matter how many people watch it online, no matter how many people DVR it, no matter how many cancer patients the sixth episode healed, the show is still losing live viewers. As in people who did watch it live before are giving up on it. This is not good. As a matter of fact, this is very bad.
I love dollhouse, though I’ve yet to see episode 6, sadly it’s now a solid cancel:(
I think the lower ratings Dollhouse has been getting are NCAA fault. And even if they aren’t, I think some people shouldn’t mark the show as dead yet, because maybe Prison Break will be a better lead-in than TSCC is.
Too bad about Dollhouse, it really is a pretty good show.
ok now dollhouses numbers are down to TSCC levels (the show thats both dead in the water and holding dollhouse back, according to some dollhouse fans) can we not just get past the excuses and admitt that barring a miracle, as with TSCC, dollhouse is not getting renewed.
dollhouse fans may love it and hate that its doing so bad, but making excuses is sad just enjoy it and be glad that you liked it even if others didn’t.
Just as I get into Dollhouse.
Dollhouse and TSCC are both goners.
Ricardo, Basketball didn’t hurt Dollhouse last week, so you can’t really blame it this week.
So, can anyone explain to me how Dollhouse’s numbers do not tell us that people are idiots? We get five lobotomized episodes, because Fox demands “easy access,” freak-of-the-week episodes for people to be able to just jump in and as the show gets better, builds a mythology and actually requires people to pay attention and follow a storyline, the ratings drop. Bad show = bad ratings, bad show gets better = worse ratings. I am sorry, I used to blame Fox, marketing, Nielsen for bad ratings of good shows, but the steady decline of anything remotely watchable and the continued love for Americal Idol 34 and Dancing with the Stars 980 just tells me people are f’n idiots.
Ah yes, the “if you don’t like the show I like, you’re stupid” argument. How original… *rolls eyes*
I said two weeks ago that this week and last would be the season lows for the show. I expected a 1.4 last week. It held up better last week vs the tourney than this week. I don’t read much about these numbers at all.
Next week it will be up against the normal line up. If it stays at 1.3 next week it’s in serious trouble.
Funny, it happened the same week that FOX officially green lit the remaining episodes too.
LMAO Dollhouse and Terminator.. are people really happy with a 1.3 in the demo? wow.
Marek Dollhouse hasn’t been watchable though and that’s the problem. Of the seven episodes its produce one has been very good, another has been good and the other five have been awful. You can’t hang the success of a show on one really good episode. It might be that if the show continues to produce good episodes here on out it builds momentum but given this weeks drop that’s not looking especially likely.
“Ricardo, Basketball didn’t hurt Dollhouse last week, so you can’t really blame it this week.”
Whilst I don’t think its an excuse that’s going to save the show (unless it rebounds big next week) it is worth pointing out that NCAA went from a 2.9 last week to a 3.6 this week – that’s a sizable increase so its not out of the question that NCAA had some effect on Dollhouse. But regardless of that a 1.3 is still a 1.3 and still horrible plus it would also seem that Dollhouse was the only show that took the hit since everything else was pretty much the same vs. last week.
NOOOOOO dollhouse, YOU MUST GO ON….I LOVE THIS SHOW…WHY ARE PEOPLE SOOOOOO STUPID AND DONT WATCH??? WHY IS FOX EVEN STUPIDER AND PUT IT ON FRIDAYS? IDIOTS IDIOTS…
Holly, sure you can blame basketball this week. Yes, it held up last week. That has a lot to do with the pairings in the tourney. This week the tourney was up viewers and in the demo (by .7). So you have to think that hurt the male demo target of DOLLHOUSE. It was expected to hurt it last week, but it survived.
Next week is where it will matter. Robert thinking they’re going to make their decision by now is incredibly silly. It goes against their inclinations. They want to see if it trends up towards the end of the season. The end of the season doesn’t start until next week. Last night was the exact middle of the season.
I think they’re going to care more about episodes 9 and 10 for their decision making than any other episodes.
Still it’s all going to come down to Pete and Kevin. I don’t think the show has much of a chance, but if it got a 13 episode pick up it wouldn’t stun me at all.
Two weeks ago was Watchmen, last week it was basketball, now it’s Monsters vs Alien opening, then will be Flashpoint, then will be Wifeswap..
i expected more from nick c, no C3 talk, no dvd sales talk, no DVR talk. only ‘I don’t read much about these numbers at all’ so what are people supposed to read into about a shows future/success if not its ratings?
Feedbag: ‘The Pacific,’ ‘Chuck,’ ‘Glee,’ ‘Dollhouse’…
Q: James I notice you didn’t mention “Chuck” as looking “pale & shaky.” At this point do you think it will get renewed? Given all of NBC’s woes and how brutal the time period is? — Paul
A: NBC is going to be pretty reluctant to get rid of “Chuck.” They like the show, critics like the show, fans like the show. Its numbers have been weak recently, but to some extent you have to blame the ratings tide being out at NBC. This isn’t numbers-based answer I’m giving, it’s more just a sense that if NBC can find any way to make “Chuck” work, they will.
Sammy Nick said he doesn’t read much into this weeks numbers because they’re up against a one time event that Dollhouse won’t face again during its run. He did however add that if the show doesn’t rebound next week then it becomes something to look at, which is a perfectly reasonable theory even if I don’t strictly speaking agree with it.
Hmm, I was wrong. 1.3 can be spun!
Paul, that’s already been posted here: http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/03/28/james-hibberd-on-chuck-if-nbc-can-save-it-it-will/15380
Paul not only has that already been posted it doesn’t really fit a Friday ratings discussion… Although on the Hibberd note I quite like how it doesn’t actually answer the question
“Next week is where it will matter.”
Nick C, you say that week after week. The show is dead. There is no way it will improve to over a 1.5 demo. Even if it does, thats terrible!
Julia, Holly: Why are you like that? I think we made some good arguments, but you keep pointing out the bad ratings. We know the ratings are bad. We’re just saying that there is still a chance. If next weak Dollhouse doesn’t come up, I give up. But not yet.
Is basket gonna be around next weak?
Dave, you’re right. ALL my friends and I watch dollhouse, so that means at least 10 million ppl are watching it. O:)
Does FOX have something better than Dollhouse and T:SCC lined up or waiting in the wings for next year? Do they think they can turn either of these vehicles around?
Is 1.3/5 the most disatsterous demo?
How many actual box sets of T:SCC S1 were sold?
Only the FOX execs can answer.
Nick, yeah, it’s horribly silly to think a show that dropped from a 2.0 in the premiere to a 1.6 several weeks later to a 1.5 to a 1.3, regardless of the circumstances, will not be renewed. And even sillier since you don’t think it has much chance for renewal either! But none of that is as silly to me as trying to attribute improved C3 ratings that are a function of “Remote Free” directly to Dollhouse. And yet, you do.
Ricardo, next week the only NCAA action will be on Saturday, CBS will be back to Ghost Whisperer, etc.
Shouldn’t the viewership changes be 180,000 and 250,000 for T:SCC and Dollhouse, not 18,000 and 25,000?
Battlejuice to answer your questions.
Yes.
Probably not.
Yes.
Not enough.
Caven, yes indeed. Fixed!
Dollhouse is getting really good IMHO, but a 1.3 demo is catastrophic. I can’t imagine any way that the show can survive to next season. I’d guess that it would have to recover to near a 2.0 which seems wildly unlikely at this point.
G said:
“Ugh, I hope Dollhouse is canceled soon. I can’t stand how they parade the women around on there (every episode they’re half naked) to be objectified, makes me sick.”
G, are you a troll? Have you even watched this show? Last night’s episode made it even clearer than ever that the show’s villains — the Dollhouse — are the objectifiers, manipulating (or “parading” if you want) women — and men too (who get half-naked plenty on this show) — for their own sinister purposes. The central conflict of the show is: Will the women (and men) escape the manipulation and objectification at the hands of the villains? And who’s really in charge? Perhaps most interestingly, we’re told that the ultimate purpose is not profit, so is the Dollhouse a testing ground for a future society or an attempt to build a “1984″-style scenario? And is the Dollhouse supposed to represent Fox, or TV in general?
Too bad we may never get the answers to those questions… oh well.
TSCC rox! This show is definitely fighting!!!
@Alex,
If that’s the case, then both shows don’t have a chance. At all.
I’d still like to know the Actual Units of S1 sold for T:SCC.
And near as anyone can guess would be cool.
If that’s the case, then both shows don’t have a chance. At all.
You got it.
I’m so bummed to hear these numbers, because last night’s ep was a continuation of the awesomeness that DH has delivered for a number of weeks now.
I’m going to continue to hope – it’s what I do – for better numbers, and a 2nd season.
And if not, maybe they can cast Topher and Adelle on their own show where they just get stoned, act silly, and crack me up while using toys like trampolines.
Ike, most people will concede that the road to hell here is paved with all Joss Whedon’s good intentions, but just because the show promises to at some point deal with the skeevy aspects of the dollhouse doesn’t make the premise and execution any less horrible. Does every episode have to have some kind of rape or sexual abuse in the background (outside of the given issues with the dollhouse)? Do the female actives have to writhe around on their goofy chair device with only two stripes of cloth covering them? Does Eliza Dushku own some form of pants or is wearing shirts as dresses a neccessity for her? Does every last character with agency to fight the Dollhouse have to be male? Just because they may not be intended to be skeevy does not make any of the issues this show has any less valid.
Don’t forget that “Don’t Forget the Lyrics” returns in 8 weeks. For those of you who would like to have something watchable to watch on FOX Fridays.
I keep hearing any day NBC and Direct Tv will announce a two season 26 episode agreemnt to keep FNL alive. This is great news as quality television is at a premium on network tv especially. Wonder what will happen with MInka Kelly(Lyla Garrity) now that she already signed on as a lead for a CW pilot.(Minka Kelly as a lead) I love to look at her as much as anyone but a lead?
Also I gotta believe FNL will be well above the 4mil mark it was at two weeks ago with the end of weeknight NCAA games. You would think FNL’s audience would be most adversly affected by March Madness as I dont think many ballers are watchin Dollhouse
I wonder how many heads would explode if TSCC surpassed Dollhouse completely next Friday?
I haven’t watched Dollhouse but from the comments here and the ratings it seems the audience has been shrinking and FOX will cancel. I don’t think blaming NCAA or other variables is the reason. A new show should be gaining momentum not losing it and once that happens it is very difficult to reverse.
I don’t know about the basket being on next week, but there are are movies premiering next Friday that are ripe to be an excuse.
At least movies are a better excuse than BSG since, you know, people actually watch movies.
Did Nick suffer some blunt head trauma recently? Inside of a month ago on this very same blog, he argued with me when I wrote that I believed Kevin Reilly and Preston Beckman when they said FOX would air all the episodes of “Terminator.” His argument? It got a 1.3 in the 18-49 demo. Now “Whorehouse” gets, will wonders never cease, a 1.3 in the 18-49 demo. His argument? Well, it’s not great, but there’s still hope of a second season.
Delusional. Nick, seek help.
I like the efforts of Joss Whedon, but Dollhouse had a horrible launch. The “come on” promos with Glau and Dushku during the breaks for the first episode said, “Hey there, Friday night stay-at-home perverts! Grab some lotion and a box of tissues and watch these shows!” I initially cringed (but later laughed) as I watched Glau and Dusku deliver their lines in the breaks.
I have not returned to the show since then, but I wasn’t impressed with the first show anyway. I seriously doubt that the sixth episode represented any substantial improvement in the show, and the overnights for the seventh episode apparently confirm that.
When Dollhouse fans say it was the collective fault of the Watchmen opening, the Battlestar Galactica finale, the NCAA men’s basketball tournament, the Monsters vs. Aliens opening, etc. for Dollhouse’s ratings, what they are basically saying is that if there were no other entertainment choices available and people were imprisoned in their homes during that hour, Dollhouse would do okay.
I’m not sure that would be true, either.
I think the Whedonites had reason to complain about Firefly’s cancellation, but they are standing on much less stable ground with Dollhouse.
TSCC is going to surpass dollhouse. I love Joss Whedon, I love Eliza Dushku, and I loved Firefly… But yesterday I was watching TSCC, and by the end it was very exciting and I cared for the show. However, with Dollhouse, I was just going “What the hell is this?” throughout the whole episode. Random virus exposure, random people being exposed, going nuts, Eliza running around with weird memories… IT made absolutely no sense, and hence the ratings.
The Basketball game put a stop to TSCC’s growth, regardless, TSCC was doing very well, and had an increase. If the NCAA basketball game wasn’t there, TSCC for sure would have left DH in the dust. DH is lucky to have TSCC leading in. Otherwise I wouldn’t have even watched it.
Trust me, next week I expect there will be a larger increase. TSCC was dominating Digg.com last night as well.
BTW, there’s more chance of a show getting canceled in first season, than in second. I noticed this pattern…
Riff that’s not actually what Nick said, his point was that a 1.3 for Dollhouse is only a problem if it doesn’t rebound next week. His argument (unless I’m misreading it) is that Dollhouse dropped because of the increased NCAA competition and that as long as it rebounds at least to the 1.5 range it was at then what he’s been saying since day one holds true – the show has to trend up for the final episodes. As I said before I don’t strictly speaking agree with what he’s saying but I can see the basic logic behind it.
If the Dollhouse drop is a one-off because of the NCAA games then its something Fox can ultimately discount but right now it remains to be seen whether it’s a one off or just further bleeding of the audience.
Harold whilst the ratings don’t reflect it I would say that episode six was a massive turn around in the shows quality and direction whether or not it can sustain that is another matter entirely and whether its too little too late remains to be seen. I will however say that I disagree with the Whedon fans who basically evaluated episode six as the moment Fox got out of Whedon’s way – the first episodes all had Whedon’s fingerprints all over them and that’s part of the reason they were so bad.
Julia, yes he can spin anything apparently… but wait until next week! har har
Put it simply: I like Dollhouse. It’s gotten a lot better the last couple weeks, and I’m going to keep watching to the end. In 6 episodes. Because ratings like this are pitiful, even for Friday. We all know this, whether we admit it or not. No justifications or spinning can give me any logical reason to think FOX will renew this (or TSCC). Now, if the numbers suddenly spike up to 2.0+ and hold there, we can talk about the future of this show.
But as much as I’d like it to go on, I’m quite comfortable in understanding that this grand attempt has failed. Blame FOX for their meddling, blame Whedon for acquiescing to that interference, blame Dushku for some bad acting (especially in the first couple episodes), whatever. We have the rest of our lives to debate that.
Fact is, only 1/3 of new shows get a second season on average, and FOX hasn’t renewed a show that debuted on a Friday in the last 10 years. [source: thefutoncritic] Unless they suddenly see something that they think they can build on, which doesn’t seem to be the case since Dollhouse was originally slated to premiere on Mondays, it’s as good as over.
I understand the passion that these shows can generate. Hell, I grew up with Star Trek, and BSG, Firefly, and Lost have been high points in my TV viewing in this decade. Everyone has a show (or several) like that. But reality must be faced. Barring some kind of unlikely and dramatic turnaround right now, Dollhouse is doomed.
It’s that simple.
Dollhouse is done. Hope the last six eps make it on, but will thoroughly understand if they don’t.
I REALLY don’t think it’s too dillusional for a Dollhouse fan to continue to want this show to really take off, and have a second season. And I hate to come up with excuses, but damn. Give Dollhouse a different timeslot/day so it actually has a -chance- to do well. And if it still doesn’t take off, then by all means, axe it. The show was doomed from the beginning when it was put up with T:TSCC. Thanks for at least giving it a chance, FOX. *Roll eyes.*
KG, complaining about FOX not giving it a post-Idol premiere doesn’t seem out of line, but the idea that the show would have automatically done better on another night alone seems unfounded. It has very little competition in it’s current slot, compared to Monday for example, and it can’t even hold 4M viewers apparently. There comes a time when it’s no longer about how the network treats it and more about how the audience responds to it.
Gotta wonder if Dollhouse was down because it aired opposite Stargate SG-1’s ‘Ark of Truth.’ Do you by chance have the ratings for the SciFi Channel for last night? It’d be interesting to see how the direct to DVD film did in comparison to BSG’s finale ratings last week.
I’m a Whedon fan, and I love Dollhouse, but even I know when a cause is lost.
Here’s looking forward to Joss’s next venture on the web, where he’ll have the creative control he needs to make the show he wants. I hope Joss realizes that we don’t actually mind him working with a low budget if it means that he gets to write what he wants without having to worry (much) about viewership.
Stargate as well as Atlantis always did about the same as regular BSG episodes in ratings, meaning less than the much improved finale of BSG, so without knowing actual numbers, I’d say it’s pretty hard to imagine a movie that’s been out on DVD for several months would have had more viewers than BSG last week. Seriously, unless they happend to air something hugely special, we probably cannot underestimate the effect of the SciFi channel on broadcast ratings.
terminator’s gained for three weeks straight!!!
but sadly, i’m still not hopefull for a renewal. it really makes you wonder about the state of humanity when more people watch wife swap and suppernanny than terminator and dollhouse(which has really gotten good.)
oh well. when will they be released on dvd??
Seeing as Dollhouse is nowhere on the summer schedule, FOX is not trying to build word-of-mouth over the summer by airing repeats? Even in Dollhouse does trend upward from here on out, how high does it need to go? 1.6? 1.8? 1.9? With the luekwarm-at-best press on “Remote-Free” profitability lately, will C3 even matter? Yep, I suspect Dollhouse is done. Now as for FOX’s sci-fi-type programming, here’s hoping Fringe can return to decent numbers on Tuesdays after such a huge hiatus!
cw has an increase on its sitcom.maybe ehc & the game will return next season!!wikipedia says that ehc is renewed for a 5th season!it is true???
George, this is the wikipedia citation about EHC I think you’re talking about: “and a planned fifth season for the show’s 2009-2010 network season, is currently in production.[citation needed]”
The fact that there’s no reference link leads me to believe it’s a mirage since I’ve not seen any announcement and I keep a pretty close (but not infallible) watch on things like that.
digitalred: “Gotta wonder if Dollhouse was down because it aired opposite Stargate SG-1’s ‘Ark of Truth.’ ”
Oh, for crying out loud.
ys you are right!!but do u think that cw will renewed its 2 sitcoms?
I find it funny that there are idiots around who have the audacity to blame TSCC for the poor ratings of Dollhouse. That’s like blaming God for not winning the lottery.
I dont usually comment on Fridays… its all the same!! But The Game got over 2m last night :O very good! And Friday night lightsdid better then DH in overall viewers! and its allready been shown on direct tv!
Robert and/or Bill is it ever tempting not to report total viewers? How much differently would people look at the numbers if they didn’t know that an extra 1.5 million viewers translated into just a .1 increase in the 18-49 from Supernanny to 20/20? Or that Howie Do It and TSCC essentially have the same number of total viewers despite a .3 difference in the demo?
“I find it funny that there are idiots around who have the audacity to blame TSCC for the poor ratings of Dollhouse. That’s like blaming God for not winning the lottery.”
Did you just compare TSCC to God?
Anyway I think perhaps you’re being a little over the top here with your wording. I would however agree that it seems slightly at odds with the numbers to blamne TSCC for Dollhouse’s problems – TSCC was the lead-in when it pulled a 2.0 after all. But at the same time it’s also probably fair to say that Dollhouse’s number probably would be better if it were getting an Idol lead-in of course the expectation would also be much higher and it likely would have been pulled well before it reached episode 7 if that were the case.
It all balances itself out.
In the grand scheme of things I actually think Fox made the right move putting Dollhouse on Friday. Outside of Saturday its the only night of the week that they could let the show finish its run because Dollhouse was going to tank especially during those first episodes with or without an Idol lead-in.
OH MY FREAKING GOD!!!! TSCC IS UP DOLLHOUSE AS GOOD NUMBERS FOR THE COMPETITION!!!! BOTH SHOWS ARE SO GONNA GET RENEWED!!!!!
And now, seriousely… I’m eaiting to see when the axe is finally gonna rip the head of both shows… Sad, but hey, both never had good ratings to begin with…
Chris, agreed on both of your posts. We do live in reality still. At least I think we do…
I could maybe see the SighFigh factor as believable if it were something truly new. Like the Stargate Universe pilot or some other new event programming. But a movie that’s been out on DVD for a year? Yeah right! But if it somehow got huge numbers, I’ll gladly eat the crow there (unlikely, as we would’ve already heard about it).
Friday is a bad night for network television, but trying to put younger-trending shows like Dollhouse and TSCC there and expect big success is a special kind of stupid. That’s why CBS is doing ok. They have older-trending stuff like Numb3rs and Flashpoint that take 8 mil+ to get a 2.0+ in the demo. You have to program your nights with some sense of reality (not the genre, the state of perception!
) if you want to succeed. Friday is now good for cheap reality fare, burnoffs, and the occasional surprise success like Ghost Whisperer (and like Numb3rs a couple years back).
I’m sure that a cushier spot in the lineup would’ve produced much better numbers for Dollhouse, but TSCC had already lost a bunch on Mondays, so that move was not surprising. And the quality of the initial Dollhouse eps. is probably what motivated that move. We’ll never know how a post-Idol Dollhouse would’ve performed compared to how Lie to Me has done (or Fringe). And a Thursday slot against CSI, Office, GA, etc. probably wouldn’t have done much good either. Which left Mondays. I still think a 24-Dollhouse pairing would’ve worked well (better than the TSCC pairing on both accounts), but House still has legs and now 24 is on the decline, so maybe it wouldn’t have helped as much there.
Give FOX a modicum of credit for trying some kind of semi-unique promotion of the shows as a big action night. But TSCC has been high on (melo)drama and low on action since its return, and Dollhouse has been up and down in that regard. Talk about misleading advertising!
It’ll be sad to see these shows go, but hey, look on the bright side: Maybe the Dollhouse DVDs will sell like hotcakes and Universal will step in and let Joss make a movie version. Oh wait, that was the Whedon show that only had 1 or 2 disappointing eps, not the first 5 in a row.
A start like that might’ve worked 20 years ago when shows were often given time to find their footing (Star Trek:TNG comes to mind, what an awful first season there!), but no more. You have to hit the ground running with a concept that’s fairly well-developed from the start. FOX may have mandated those early episodes, but Whedon and co. still wrote them. They bear some responsibility for the early quality issues, no question.
Dollhouse was a mess for 5 weeks, then the last 2 have shown a big improvement. Like I indicated earlier, I’m not giving up on the show itself; I’m just resigned to the near-certainty that the current numbers put the show squarely in the cancel column. And the numbers were against Dollhouse from the beginning; as I mentioned, FOX hasn’t renewed a Friday-premiering show in at least 10 years. Forget the C3s, the demo, the trends. Look at the odds. 0% in 10 years. Dollhouse may be getting good, but it’s far from being that special.
Hope FOX is reasonable enough to at least air the rest of the season. I want to see what **** ***** can do with h** character. (Redacted just in case anyone still reading missed that bit of casting news. Saved you guys the trouble and the complaints!)
Jason, Fox definitely will air remainig episodes of Dollhouse, There is no doubt on this.
Dollhouse has a tough road….(1st)why did they name it that, My brother will never watch the show, nor will my friends wife both because of the name of the show.(2nd)I love the ads and seeing Eliza’s body but, isn’t an ad like that going to turn away more viewers than it brings in…..Myself i think Fox will throw everyone a bone and bring back both T:SCC and Dollhouse(13 episodes each)and premier them early in the season on Fri or Mon…because sadly when Fox looses American Idle and 24 in the fall then their schedule falls apart because they loose 3+hrs of their schedule.
Alex, it is tempting every single time I have to answer the question “Well, why do you include the average viewership then?” As you may well know, much of the TV trade media doesn’t reference HH ratings or average viewership at all.
Still, I am on the side of more information is better. What I can see doing is perhaps sorting the lists by the 18-49 demo numbers and putting the viewership column on the far right. The same information, but with a change in visual importance.
There seems to be a lot of hate towards dollhouse fans on these threads. why? why is it ok to attack these fans. nobody (ok, much less) treats chuck fans like this. Oh and all you know it all haters out there, here are some cold hard truths to cool your “i don’t like a poorly performing show, so i’m better than the fans” attitude.
1. B-ball did affect the Dollhouse ratings.(I’m sure i’m not the only person who skipped dollhouse to watch b-ball last night. poor syracuse)
2.The important episodes start next week and the most important episodes are after that still. The late run trend is important.
3.DVD sales will be strong and friday expectations are low.
Given that I still don’t think dollhouse will be renewed. There is no way it recovers from a 1.3 and I don’t think it really is a good show.(yes even ep. 6) I watch out of loyalty to Whedon otherwise I wouldn’t.
TSSC’s rises again.. It now beats NBC’s shows Howdie Do It and Friday night ligts in demo. catchs DH….. It will be sad if NBC’s shows renewed but not TSSC and DH
Is there a not a show that aired against Dollhouse that someone is going to claim was the reason for its dismal ratings rather than just not enough viewers were interested to tune in? FOX is not a benevolent society but only concerned about the $$. So we’re not dissing Dollhouse per se, or its fans, but just pointing out the obvious that it’s a goner.
It’s a shame, because it is at least different, and it actually has started to get good, but I agree that Dollhouse cut its own throat with the four totally awful shows that opened its season. You cannot be different AND awful out of the gate.
However, I agree with Nick C on one thing: they will not decide until all 13 eps have been aired. Whatever the number it needs (1.8? 2.0?), if it suddenly starts hitting that number come episode 11 or 12, they will keep it. Last night’s drop didn’t doom Dollhouse. The only thing that may have doomed DH already were those four horrible episodes. But in this climate it is never too late to get picked up if the the ratings climb.
If better episodes lead to better ratings, it will stay. If not, it won’t. But we are all too quick to want to be right about calling if a show will stay or go, because I can guarentee you that FOX would like nothing more than for the show to rise up high enough to get a renewel. They see the numbers and are obviously planning on it dying as much as we are, but they don’t WANT it to. They would like nothing more than to have one less hour to have to program next fall.
The S1 TSCC DVD set is 1127th in DVD sales at Amazon, FWIW. (Blu-Ray sets are 1803rd.) For the sake of comparison, S1 of Heroes is 198th and S2 is 171st. S1 of Chuck is 885th.
“Firefly, the complete series” is 44th, not in television shows but in all DVD sales.
This is only one sales portal, but I’d expect others to track in terms of relative position if not in terms of hard numbers.
Random Dollhouse thoughts.
Friday night is a terrible night for that show.
Even with the Dushku/Whedon combo it isn’t doing any better than Tru Calling did. I don’t know what that MEANS…but I suspect it just means the shows are too niche for Fox. They would cancel the XFILES in year one if it was debuting now.
The concept needed a LOT more hashing out IMO. It is very difficult to care about the Dushku character because she is literally just a blank slate. All those scenes with her acting like a wide eyed child are flat and even when she acts like a person, you know it isn’t “her”.
Perhaps it would have been better to rework the show and have Dushku be in the role of the cop trying to find out about the Dollhouse or some variation of that theme. Then you might be able to “care” about the lead character more. Or maybe undercover as a handler or escapee… whatever the case, this show feels like a half thought out brain storm session/work in progress.
Also it would probably do better as a first run show on a cable net (or the old WB/UPN if they still existed). I don’t follow CW or MyNetworkTV at all….so maybe it would be a better fit there…or is it too expensive? Spice it up and stick it on FX. Even if the story “worked” it is still a niche type show like Buffy/Angel/Psych/Monk/Burn Notice etc etc. They could cut the costs, because the issues with the show have nothing to do with effects or locations IMO.
It is really too bad, because Dushku has done better acting with the different characters than I ever would have expected from her.
This will be 3 strikes at FOX if you count the failed pilot. I hope she eventually hits on something that works.
For TSCC, pity they wasted time with Riley/Jesse crap and didn’t go straight to want happened last night (no spoilers!).
3 straight weeks up and beating DH in the demos now. Is that like scoring 3 runs in the bottom of the ninth when you are 10 down?
“Is there a not a show that aired against Dollhouse that someone is going to claim was the reason for its dismal ratings rather than just not enough viewers were interested to tune in?”
You get that it aired against NCAA right?
And Bill it would be interesting to see how the total viewers/household gets viewed if its shunted down to the far end of the table.
“By the way, am I the only person who thinks that Ellison is a moron for not realizing Weaver’s a Terminator?”
Nope, I’ve been saying that since Ellison got involved with Weaver. Man is too dumb to live. I hope John follows through on his threat to kill him next week. But he probably won’t. Maybe we’ll get lucky and Weaver will kill him like she’s obviously planning to.
I’m not sure why last week’s Dollhouse didn’t spur any increased viewing this week, because it was the best DH to date, but I can guarantee this week’s episode won’t spur next week. The whole DeWitt and Topher and everybody acting like idiots because they were drugged went over like a lead balloon with me. This is not supposed to be a COMEDY, Joss! This episode was definitely not as good as episode 6. Joss made the same mistake as Friedman – screwing with the characters. DeWitt is not supposed to be comedy material! Topher, yes, not DeWitt.
So I predict DH will drop next week. And unless next week is really cool, probably it will drop the following week.
Last night’s TSCC was OK as far as the season goes, which isn’t saying much. It basically is setting up the finale in two weeks, and also raising questions for a season 3 it will unfortunately never see.
Biggest boner last night was the embedded transmitter in Sarah. Uh, guys, Winston was ordered to kill her. Why embed a transmitter in someone you’re going to off? However, I give the writers props for not simply giving Sarah cancer, but faking everybody out with the transmitter. But ignoring the problem cited makes it a wash in terms of capable writing.
I don’t even know if zapping yourself with a defibrillator would actually fry an embedded transmitter. Not to mention, uh, Sarah never noticed the insertion wound? The whole thing was barely plausible. They had to explain how Calebra found the Connors so fast based on so little information that Winston uncovered, I suppose, so they went for it, no matter how screw loose the idea is.
At least Cameron didn’t get offed due to the zap. A lot of people were worried seeing that scene in the spoiler clip at WonderCon. She also dropped the flat statement that Derek had been tortured and revealed info before – to her, probably, in the interrogation house last season. I’ve long suspected she was the Skynet interrogator at the time Allison Young was also being held. Hope we hear more about that before the end.
Dekker spoiled the Charley Dixon death months ago, so that went no where. It would have been much smarter to bring Charley onto the team months ago, since they obviously could use a medic given how Sarah gets her ass kicked every week.
I also don’t get why they insist on showing action scenes WITHOUT SHOWING THE ACTION! Charley is shooting at…who? Where was the explosion he triggered? Are they out of budget for the season for gas bags and black powder? We didn’t need to see Charley get killed, revealing it later was OK – but the action fans would have wanted to see the explosion that took out the Calebra goons.
Derek goes to check out a van and leaves Cam to fix the tire? Smart, Derek. Cam is the Connors pitbull all season, but now you want her to be a mechanic in a risk situation? Cam is right – if he wasn’t likely to divulge info under torture, she should have left his ass in captivity.
Like I said all season, problems with realism on this show. No wonder it bleeds viewers.
I can see the people who are watching Dollhouse/T:TSCC might do something better with their Friday night time and be more DVR/Internet savvy and therefore forgo the pleasure of watching live in order to go out or watch a live event for example. I can’t really see Wife Swap or SupperNanny as being shows people try to DVR.
Both my mom and I will watch SuperNanny if it’s on. I go out Friday nights, she doesn’t. I watch T:TSCC recorded. If we had a nielsen box she would have a greater effect on Live ratings because she stays in. I would balance that out in the Live + 7.
Also, I’m an engineer with a decent salary who can afford a Ford truck (though I like the Ford Fusion better) or anything tech being advertised/shown (and yes I have bought tech that I’ve seen in a show before because it got me interested enough in it to look it up online for reviews). My interest in things high tech is probably a part of the reason I watch the show in the first place. My mom has no interest in cars or gadgets which is part of the reason she DOESN’T watch T:TSCC.
What I’m getting at here is that the advertisers on T:TSCC are aware of all this. They might care more about internet viewership and iTunes downloads than typical typical advertisers because it shows which viewers might be more interested in their products. Product placements are becoming more and more the norm on these kinds of shows that get viewership in DVR and internet or iTunes because they know the people who watch these shows (and therefore the kind of people who might like their products) are less likely to have patience with commercials. Tech companies, gadget/cell phone companies, car companies probably do very well with product placements.
I think live ratings are going to become less important for certain shows in the future. Advertisers have already realized that commericals are doomed in some viewerships and they are coming up with more creative ways to get info about their products out there (the used-to-be-horrible-and-obvious-but-now-much-more-savvy-and-effective-product-placement). Even illegal viewing of the shows online gets massive advertisement for certain products. Look at ANTM for example. Product placement in every episode and they are one of the most notorious brands for NOT going out and having their shows taken off places like youtube because people watching the shows are being bombarded with advertisements no matter where they get that from which makes advertisers happy, which makes them keep paying to be product-placed, which makes tv-execs happy, which keeps shows on the air.
Point being: Depending on how much product placement is going on in this show and whether advertisers feel their brand is getting their message out (looking at YOU Ford) advertisers may not care so much if the live numbers look low. If DVR numbers are good, online numbers are good, DVD sales are good, rewatching of episodes are good, etc. they may be quite pleased to continue with the show. Certainly some advertisers do not do product placements so well, but tech companies and car companies WILL do will as product placement and are more likely to be featured in TV shows like Dollhouse and T:TSCC rather than Wife Swap or SuperNanny.
None of this may save the show; I don’t know how the advertisers have felt about how their messages are getting out but I’ve heard that FORD is happy with the relationship with T:TSCC and that is a good sign at least. The more viewers the better, even if not Live.
That being said, how can I find what last weeks live+7 ratings were for the shows given above? Is wife swap REALLY beating T:TSCC? Are advertisers getting more bang for their buck advertising with WifeSwap or with T:TSCC?
Product placement will continue to grow in television, but I doubt it is as profitable a commercials at this point. Not to mention that excessive product placement has been known to cause backlash. I doubt fans would be happy if John Connor spent time each episode talking about how how tasty Coca-Cola is during T:TSCC.
JustTunedIn, The problem is, even if you add in all the DVR viewing, TSCC’s ratings are still horrible. Internet viewing doesn’t really matter because the nets don’t make much money from it yet. Also, WifeSwap would be in a better position even if it has the same ratings because it is a lot cheaper to produce than TSCC.
How badly do i mess up my point when I goof up and say Ford instead of Dodge!
HAHA!
Well, TSCC was loading up the Dodge Rams big time last night as they were moving out of their house (the one they never should have been living at in the first place).
TWO Dodge Rams no less! The Connors have an unlimited budget for trucks and guns, apparently, which is why I found it funny when Derek complained about Cameron getting into his C-4 (”I needed it”, she says, referring to the stupid bomb the writers had her put in her head),
Personally I think the “product placement” for the Barrett .50 caliber sniper rifle in “Goodbye To All That” was more effective than the Dodge Rams!
Ok, not sure if this link will work.
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/media_entertainment/10-most-recalled-new-hybrid-ads-septoct-2008/
Interesting note about recall of hybrid ads. The Dodge Ram tie-in with T:TSCC was the second most recalled hybrid ad. A hyrbid ad is defined below as:
“Hybrid Ads include customized ads, branded promos, vignettes, interstitials, and micro-series where sponsor messaging is combined with program or entertainment content.
Recall refers to the percentage of television viewers who can recall, within 24 hours, a hybrid ad’s sponsor.”
I hate double posting but don’t know how to edit previous ads.
This whole issue with product placement is not to improve the show but to show how advertisers may still like a show that is not viewed live along with their commercials.
Also advertisers ARE more savvy about product placement. John won’t talk about how much he loves Coke but someone watching might eventually go “I LOVE that truck, it’s so kick ass” or not.
Anyway, just because an advertiser shows you a commercial doesn’t mean you’ll buy the product either. APPLE has been promoting MACS subtly in shows and movies for years. So has CISCO. It’s pretty normal to see a high tech person with a Mac and not immediately think product placement. Eventually it can have an effect on how you view the brand though. Going to do some quick googling see if there is research on product placement effectiveness in high tech/sci fi related shows.
triple post. oops. Just pretend all these posts are one long one.
ANNNNNNND found it. That didn’t take long. Maybe doesn’t really go into how WELL it has been working, but:
http://io9.com/5061426/the-history-of-product-placement-in-science-fiction
Just wondering how the live+7, Fox online viewing, hulu viewing, itunes purchases, dvd purchases (and therefore basically watching advertisements over again) etc. will affect how shows that do use “embedded marketing” (nicer term for product placement) will actually matter. Maybe they will start to matter more and more. I have season 1 of T:TSCC and have watched it several times and still remember the episode where she is pretending to buy her phone from the guy who is building the Turk and he basically explains how awesome it is. Embedded product placement woven right into the storyline.
Maybe this doesn’t have an effect on advertisers now, but could this become something that IS more important in the future? Especially since people don’t like advertisements and wouldn’t watch them if they could get away from them, and technology is making it easier and easier for us. Especially younger demographics. The reason I think sci fi has so much product placement is because it’s audience knows how to get away from traditonal commericals. If you can’t get your audience to come to your advertisements, you need to bring your advertisements to your audience and all that. The whole “historically this similar show got cancelled so current shows will see the same fate” line may not stay true for too much longer.
I guess we’ll see if T:TSCC IS renewed. I just think it is something to consider.
** still embarassed about that Ford vs Dodge mixup. Sigh.
JustTunedIn, product placement is definitely something that is going to be more important in the future, but it doesn’t have much of an effect right now. But, in any case, TSCC’s Live+7 numbers are still so horrible that even if networks figured out how to use product placement to pay for all of the advertising, the rate would be well below whatever they would need.
That’s the real crux of the matter. Even when networks figure out how to use DVR numbers to their advantage, the shows that have the most live viewers will still have the most Live+7 viewers. There may be a couple of exceptions, but for the most part, the landscape won’t change. DVR may be able to turn a mediocre show’s ratings into something that would look decent if they were the LIve+SD ratings, but if every other show is getting a similar boost, the required number to look decent goes up, as well.
Dollhouse, while the concept is completely great, and interesting to a point, it is completely missing the mark… and i mean completely missing the mark…the show jumps around more than any other show on tv… at least when i put on terminator i know its about a terminator, when i put on friday night lights, its about teen angst and football, and what happens in that town, hell if i put on knight rider… its not that hard to see whats happening there… with dollhouse… i mean, are they prostitutes programmed to do something, are they assasins, are they government operatives? i mean, should the most exciting thing that has happened been the fact that patton oswalt had a guest appearance? Eliza Dushku while ridiculously hot, is a poor actress in this show. its completely unbelievable with her inthe roll.
i know people will like the show and i feel bad that its doing poorly for them! but the concept of the show is being poorly executed week in and week out.
The problem to me is that the premise Joss Whedon came up for Dollhouse isn’t good. The Dollhouse isn’t being run by a secret govenment agency to save the world – like in La Femme Nikita. It’s just a high priced whorehouse where they pimp out their “actives”. It’s supposed to be a secret but all their clients know about it and look them up all the time to hire them.
It’s improved some but in my opinion the show is still overall a mess and I expect it to continue to drop in ratings or at best hold steady.
I like Eliza Dusku as an actress but to me she’s not strong enough or good enough to anchor a show by herself. Tahmoh Penniket, who plays the cop in Dollhouse, was wooden in BSG but since he was in a uniform saluting most of the time it wasn’t as bad as it is on Dollhouse. Some of the other actors to me are good but they’re only used as supporting actors. The entire show is focussed solely around Echo, Eliza’s character. It’s not an ensemble cast to me. Between the bad overall premise and her not being a strong enough actress to carry the show on her own, I don’t see any hope for it.
The big difference on Joss Whedon’s Firefly is that show was an ensemble cast and all of the actors were perfectly cast for their roles and very engaging.
I LOVE TSCC but this season hasn’t been good since they took their focus off Cameron, The Terminator. Friday’s show wasn’t that good to me and had way too much of Lena Headly, who plays Sarah Connor, being featured. She flat out in my opinion can’t carry a show. It’s going to be cancelled and I’ve accepted that. I blame casting and the dramatic change in focus of the show in season 2 and creating a bunch of new characters played by bad actors that weren’t interesting.
TSCC to me would get better ratings if it were shown at 9pm rather than 8pm and likely have better ratings than Dollhouse if they just flipped their timeslots.
As soon as it was announced that they were putting TSCC and Dollhouse on Friday nights, I knew that both shows weren’t going to be renewed and that the most viewers could hope for is that they would air all of the episodes this season. The rumors around the net were that the Dollhouse pilot/1st episode stunk and had to be reshot. It must have been pretty bad since Dollhouse’s 1st episode had been reworked and still was awful.
I don’t personally know anyone under 30 who regularly watches live TV anymore. Everyone has a DVR, or uses Hulu or Netflix. The networks are F’ed.
I’m speaking as a fan of both Buffy and Angel. But, the difference between Dollhouse and Fox’s hit series Fringe is like night and day. Fringe is a well thought out program by a much higher profile producer (JJ Abrams). Whereas Dollhouse doesn’t seem to know where it’s heading and the concept isn’t as good. Why don’t Fox just view this as a mini series, as episode 8 they are already finding out who they are? There’s a reason why Fringe is a modest hit and Dollhouse isn’t and it’s got nothing to do with the timeslots. It’s a matter of quality of writing. Fringe has found itself and appeals to a much broader audience than Dollhouse and that’s a fact.
“I don’t personally know anyone under 30 who regularly watches live TV anymore. Everyone has a DVR, or uses Hulu or Netflix. The networks are F’ed.”
I’m under 30, but I don’t understand the hype of Netflix. I tried it, and I found it crappy. If I want to rent, I just go to the video store now. Hulu is another one I don’t get.
Hulu is quite simple. You can watch tv shows online. Never tried Netflix.
Yeah, I know I’m just holding out for miracles to have T:TSCC renewed. I don’t know why it is showing such bad numbers on Nielsen though when it does well compared to other shows in other medias. It sucks because obviously tv ratings are still the important number for advertisers but I am way more likely to buy a dvd of T:TSCC than a person who watches Wife Swap will buy a dvd of Wife Swap. I OWN a dvd of T:TSCC.
I guess I’m just wishing the network Execs could find ways to make money other than through standard commercials. I mean, T:TSCC is still doing well compared to other shows that get renewed right? So even though it is doing really badly for broadcast it hurts when a show that gets even fewer viewers like BattleStar Galactica is considered a success but T:TSCC is considered doing really bad. I get that it’s broadcast and it’s different but grr. It’s a good show, a niche show maybe, but a good show none-the-less. Season 2 pre-orders even doing well on amazon so I hear (though when i tried to look that up i found no facts to back it up). I think I have to start mentally preparing for the axe to fall.
Sigh. I wish I was a kazillionaire and could just pay for the shows I like to be renewed.
Y: If you think think J.J. Abrams knows where he’s going with Fringe, I have to seriously question whether you’ve seen his other shows.
I think he learned from Lost and is treating Fringe differently.
Just my personal opinion.
Y, Abrams had very little to do with LOST.
True, but he did direct the pilot and he still consults on the show. Why do you think people credit him with Lost?
Because he is a big TV name that the show and network wanted associated with it in the beginning. My understanding is that he has nothing to do with it at all at this point, and possibly didn’t after the pilot. Are you sure about the consulting thing?
No.
He also found Evangeline Lily, and in every interview he is asked about Lost. So, I put the two and two together and that leads me to believe that he is a consultant on the show. It’s just what I think.
Fringe is definitely better than Dollhouse. Dollhouse does have a great premise, but it’s so odd that people have trouble understanding it.
Clearly the whole point of episode six’s reveals was that the Dollhouse is NOT just a high-class prostitution operation. That’s the just the “loss-leader”.
The problem is the show hasn’t gone far enough yet to show what IS the real purpose of the operation. Based on last night’s episode, I think it has to do with that corporation Caroline was investigating with her boyfriend. But who’s behind the corporation?
Whedon could carry this quite far – as far as Fringe, if not as well. I think the problem is they oversold the Dollhouse concept as just what it was on the surface – not what it will turn out to be underneath.
So people don’t get that this is another “big conspiracy” show like Fringe or the X-Files.
So TTSCC has gone up for 3 straight weeks?
@Richard Steven Hack
“Derek goes to check out a van and leaves Cam to fix the tire? Smart, Derek. Cam is the Connors pitbull all season, but now you want her to be a mechanic in a risk situation?”
No kididing. I was thinking exactly the same thing. You pointed out some good ways in which the show was weak, but these are only a few drops in the massive ocean of bad writing that is TSCC. I’ve never wanted the show to get cancelled, but I did want every single writer, producer, and director completely fired. It’s good material, executed horribly.
Did anyone else notice that part where John Henry grabs Savannah’s arm, and she’s holding a remote, and then the camera angle changes and her hand is empty? It was so obvious, and I rarely notice things like that. The show is just sloppy. If it weren’t for Summer Glau, I’d have trouble thinking of any reason to watch it. It’s slow, but not smart, it’s mysterious, but not intriguing, literally nothing of importance to the plot has happened the entire season. With Riley and the hot Asian chick dead, that storyline has become completely pointless.
I have to say, however, TSCC has been gradually getting better. It’s still shit on a pogo stick, but it’s improving. I can’t figure out why the ratings are improving, however. It might have to do with all the Terminator movie ads.
I didn’t like yesterday’s episode of Dollhouse. It was useful, but it felt like a cop-out by the end. Episode 6 was great.
If I were to recommend this show to people, I’d tell them to watch 2 and 6, and leave it at that. I do think the show has potential to get good. Joss Whedon is talented and could probably take it a long way if he got a chance to tell the story. It’s not so much that I love Dollhouse yet as it is that I want Whedon to succeed so he can tell his stories on his terms.
RE: “I don’t personally know anyone under 30 who regularly watches live TV anymore. Everyone has a DVR, or uses Hulu or Netflix. The networks are F’ed.”
OK, I’ll admit that I’m over 30 and can’t remember the last time I watched live TV. Even the nets are offering their shows online now.
I wish Hollywood would stop trying to shove Eliza Dushku down America’s throat. She cannot act. The dog on Frasier was a better actor than she is.
Many people disagree with you on that Jesse
Many people thought the earth was flat. Didn’t make them right.
Julia, you still keep saying TSSC’s ratings were horrible in Mondays and are horrible in Fridays. But you are wrong, they are not horrible. I do not say were very good, but Mondays numbers were good enough to get full season order.
On fridays numbers, I have just compared Friday numbers of previous shows on Fox, and seen that TSSC’s numbers are similar with them. especially in demos. So i come to this conclusion: whatever Fox shows in Fridays in that time slot, it will get similar numbers, unless that is a sport event or a show demanding GW type viewers. That number is not a horrible number for fridays..
Sorry Julia, it was Holly who said they were horrible
Hagi, what part of TSCC being the worst show in the Fox lineup don’t you get?
It’s dead. It’s over. Two more episodes and that’s the last we see of it (unless a miracle happens or some backroom deal is made by WB with one of their owned networks or somebody.)
It has absolutely nothing to do with how bad the night is, the hour is, or anything else but the numbers. The numbers mean cancellation.
Maybe Fox is nuts for thinking any show in the slot could be better. Maybe you’re actually right.
It doesn’t matter. That’s not what Fox believes.
And as long as Ghost Whisperer is cleaning up, and as long as someone can hypothesize that a sufficiently compelling show would do better than TSCC is doing, that’s all that bloody matters.
dave – please get over yourself, the ratings are put here for people to comment on, how else are people supposed to comment on dollhouse when it has bad ratings, bar saying it has. this isn’t an attack on dollhouse fans, merely calling a rock a rock.
people only wind dollhouse fans up who try to convince us that a rock is a brick, or its only a rock because ‘x’ show went up against it, ‘x’ film priemered against it, fox hates it, the moon isn’t in the right phase for it ect ect
Capn Jack, by the way, you made me think of what a (if not THE) real problem is with TSCC.
It IS a show that “makes people think”, just as the fans say. And that’s a good thing, unless you believe that most of the audience doesn’t think. Which may or may not be true.
But the problem with TSCC and its writers is that IF you think about the show, you will notice problems with the concept, the plot lines, the characterization, etc., etc.! If you really think about and get involved with the show on a deep plot and character level – you will see problems, some serious, some not so serious.
If you’re going to produce a show that makes people think – you’d better be able to out-think your audience. Because if you don’t that audience will out-think you – and then they will bail because the show becomes unsatisfying to them.
Ignore Richard Steven Hacks, he has some psychological problems. Maybe his life is so bad that he decides to bash everything, even bash the show he watches religiously. He was even mentioned in an episode of TSCC, and yet he’s still out there bashing it rofl; can you say “mental case”?
Most of his criticism is also extremely naive, like a child all he cares about is “why isn’t there more action?” “Why isn’t there more terminators?” “why don’t we see Charley actually get shot?” “why don’t we see the explosions, can’t they afford gunpowder? ”
He whines like a little b** without anything to back it up.
I watch Fringe, and I like it… I use to love the X-Files, and Fringe becomes just another X-Files wannabe with no real direction, just tons of conspiracies that make very little sense, and since they don’t really care about real science on the show, they can do whatever they want. They add aliens, disgusting monsters, disgusting “viruses”, sometimes I think they just want viewers to throw up; other times I think they do it for attention, like Quentin Tarantino does gore/blood for attention.
Dollhouse, the story is weak. Eliza Dushku is one of the reasons why I watch the show, but I find the whole storyline a maze of unrealistic fantasy storylines. The subject is too broad and it’s simply not realistic in the least bit. I think Joss Whedon will have to do better next time.
I don’t care if you think TSCC is slow at times, or sometimes can be boring, it’s one of the greatest shows there is. Great actors, great acting, great stories, great action, and there is a real mystery there. The only thing you can criticize about it, is realism (as with any sci-fi show), and perhaps filming aspects, introduction of characters that aren’t needed for the storyline (or sometimes referred to as “why they won’t continue to story as fast”) and explosions/action budget. That’s it. There’s nothing else they can find wrong with the show.
RSH… YOU CANNOT out-think the audience. Very few movies, rare events in movie history, has a movie “out-thinked” it’s audience. Movies, are where you can really out-think the audience… Trying to out-think the audience in a TV series is like trying to out think Einstein in physics–it’s possible but not probable.
Name me one show where you can find 0 holes, 0 plot problems, and it IS a sci-fi/serialized show. If you are into finding “plot holes”, like I use to be when I was naive and a child… well then you probably hate Terminator 1 and Terminator 2 movies, which were riddled with plot holes and logical problems.
X-Files is one of the PRIME examples of a “thinking show”, and that even had tons of problems. Things like “Why do people keep doubting Moulder?”, “If the Majestic 12 is trying to be sinister and hidden, why does one of them save Moulder?”, “If aliens are truly involved in taking over the planet, what are they waiting for?” To combat this, Chris Carter just leaves a lot of questions un-answered.
IF you’re whining about TSCC because it doesn’t have the perfect director or has continuity errors or goofs, then you can say that about any serialized show or movie. Lord of the Rings– Why not just take the eagle to the volcano? Matrix, terminator movies–if the machines were acting up, why not just pull the plug?
If you have no show that is more perfect as an example, then please, stop criticizing a show. Especially one on the brink, that’s like kicking someone when they’re down.
There is no such thing as a show to clever for the audience. Cartoons prove this. Most of then are written with layers, one for the hoi polloi, and the cultured references, the inside jokes, the innuendo for the rest of the people, and that is why a show like The Simpsons manages to survive 20 years. All good shows are layered. Like all good books. You can read Moby Dick at 14 as an adventure book, and later on read it again and understand that it is a heavily symbolic book, totally worth a second reading. The same goes with shows. Good shows have a first layer of entertaining, plain good story telling, and the great shows have more layers.
The problem is that most show runners can’t get the first layer right, so they leap forward and to the pretentious artsy stuff, hopping that showing people how clever they are will distract, and that people don’t notice they can’t tell a good story.
i for one hope TSCC overtakes Dollhouse for the simple reason that Dollhouse is the worst show ever made. I dont understand why 3.87 million people are watching it. when u have a 13 episode order shouldnt the writers and Joss Whedon have made all the 13 episodes great? instead he comes out and says the first 5 episodes suck but start watching after episode 6. What an IDIOT.
According to dollverse, Dollhouse will not be renewed and will air all but the last episode (to try and boost DVD sales?) and instead Prison Break finale will be aired where the 13th episode would have. They claim a show called “Mental” will take the Dollhouse time slot. I have no idea how reliable dollverse is.
http://www.dollverse.com/2009/03/all-episodes-of-dollhouse-to-air.html
RHS, you r so sure about it, did you find a job in fox and start working there. These show’s (tssc & dh) fate will be decided in May, so we cannot know whether they are dead or not.
Why should not fox to notice that their shows beat nbc’s shows in that night. There is a strong chance that with some patience and more promotion thay can catch abc’c reality shows (next year).
It is unfair to compare Fridays numbers to numbers of any other day, especially when ncaa’s semifinals is there, since as one of the Fox exec said thet it is a day with less viewers than any other day of the week.
Site says:
…..
Update: we’ve been tipped off the May 15th airing of “Epitaph One” (yes, the finale) may be pre-empted by the Prison Break finale. No confirmation on that, and FOX says different.
….
so even they do not sure about what they say.. Just a speculation..
“So TTSCC has gone up for 3 straight weeks?”
No.
The number that actually matters is exactly the same as it was last week.
Nobody is comparing the Friday shows with other weekday shows, the problem is that TSCC, and Dollhouse, this Friday where behind NCAA, 20/20, Suppernanny, Wifeswap, and Dateline in the demo, where it matters. This Friday they barely manage to beat FNL in the demo, that as already aired on DirectTV, and has the all the season online for the impatient. That even on Fridays they can’t win their timeslots. That is the problem with TSCC and Dollhouse. That even news shows can beat then in the demo.
Hagi, TSCC was the lowest rated scripted show on FOX bar two shows that had already been canceled. It had HORRIBLE ratings Mondays and it has WORSE ratings Fridays. It was NOT going to be renewed with its Monday ratings. Period.
Julia you are biased against TSSC and cant even notice simple facts. S: First of all 20/20 and dateline aired at 10:00 where fox and cw has no shows, so some of nearly six million viewers switched to those shows. It will be a suprise if they get worse numbers. also, is it reasonable to any show to beat ncaa semifinals?
Summary: tssc’s ratings continue to increase (despite Ncaa event,) and now they beat nbc’s shows and catch DH… only beaten by ABC’s reality shows. Another fact: whether it will canceled or renewed will be decided in May by Fox, not by you..
Hagi, what simple facts am I not noticing? Enlighten me.
I’m a TSCC fan but Julia is right its gone you can try and spin it until you gather your own Saturn rings and it will not change it. One week people will blame NCAA next week Obama will make a speech on the growth in the cabbage industry and the week after aliens will invade its not a valid excuse.
Hagi, 20/20 and Dateline aired at an hour that has a lower HUT and still managed to beat TSCC, and Dollhouse.
julia, they were written in my previous posts
Hagi, I’ve read your posts, and they are at best grasping at non-existent straws. There are no facts that I’m ignoring. You are ignoring the very clear facts that TSCC had horrible ratings on Monday and would have been canceled then, too.
julia, you cannot say 5.7 million is horrible in any day of the week. If you said it is not good enough for renewal i would show respect. I do not claim it is very good, but whenever you use the word horrible or its synonyms i ll object..
The other simple fact is the increase of the raitings of this show. I do not claim they are brilliant either and guarantee anything but it is unfair to hide and underestimate this very small positive trend.
“tssc’s ratings continue to increase (despite Ncaa event,)”
No they don’t.
The number that actually matters is exactly the same as it was last week and only .1 up from where it was two weeks ago. Beyond that though even if it were true that TSCC had achieved three weeks of growth the number is still only a 1.3 – how bad where the numbers before if three weeks of growth still results in bad numbers? And how meaningless does that make said growth?
“and now they beat nbc’s shows and catch DH…”
TSCC hasn’t caught Dollhouse – Dollhouse has fallen so low that its now on par with TSCC there’s a big difference. That’s like a Chuck fan claiming Chuck is catching Heroes because Heroes is bleeding viewers but Chuck is staying low. The logic doesn’t work. And for the record beating Howie Do It and only just beating FNL is nothing to shout about. Howie won’t be back next year unless it is insanely cheap to make and FNL will only be back next year if DirectTV pays for it.
“only beaten by ABC’s reality shows.”
TSCC was beaten by .4 by the aging and hardly big hitting Wife Swap and by .8 by the equally aging and not big hitting Supernanny and 20/20 was nearly an entire point ahead. Plus TSCC is still well below what CBS will do when its back to its ‘real’ Friday line-up next week.
“whether it will canceled or renewed will be decided in May by Fox, not by you..”
Whether it will be cancelled or renewed will be decided before May. The very latest date that Fox will make the decision is April when it airs its finale. But in all truth I think Fox have already made their decision.
“julia, you cannot say 5.7 million is horrible in any day of the week.”
She didn’t.
Total viewers is meaningless, especially when the figure is that low.
The reason Julia described TSCC’s Monday ratings as horrible is because the demos (the number that matters) were horrible and well below what Fox wanted and needed for the night. I’d say its perfectly fine to describe TSCC’s numbers as horrible when the only shows on the network that were drawing comparable numbers were cancelled and/or wrapped.
The numbers for The Game seem to be going up and I believe that is a season high in both the viewers and demo. I’m afraid though that Robert or Bill will tell me that the numbers will go down when the final numbers are released, lol. We will see.
sammy01, I am not down on people calling the show likely to be canceled. I am down on people saying that dollhouse fans are stupid when they think the show could recover. (which it could, the important episodes are yet to air, although it is unlikely it will do much good) There is little, “movie openings don’t have enough of an effect on relative rankings week to week” but a lot more “STOP MAKING STUPID EXCUSES FOR DH, IDIOT” comments in tone. There is also a fair amount of “dollhouse is the worst show ever, how could anyone like it. it should be canceled” comments which have nothing to do with numbers and just attack people who do like the show.(again not me, but it is far from the a terrible show)
RJ’s comment second from the top, and Jacks comment a few below mine are just a couple of examples. I could go on but I don’t have the time.(And this weeks comments are the tamest of the friday threads, have you seen JOSS WHEDON’S BIGGEST FAN)
6 march 2.96 1.0
13 march 3.50 1.2
20 march 3.65 1.3
27 march 3.83 1.3
all are fast affiliate ratings.
Everyone who has eyes can easily notice that whether there is an increase or not..
I donot think these numbers are worser than average numbers of the previous numbers of Fox shows airing in Friday 8pm slot., especially in demo.
TSCC is goner and so (thankfully) is Dollhouse.
TSCC was uneven confused. Too much time travel, too many alternate timelines (which were to be expected when you have people and cyborgs traveling back in time like its some kind of superhighway. They should have picked up with the end of Terminator 3 and continued the story of the early days of John Connor building the resistance – not some alternate timeline story of an angst ridden teenage Conner and his crazy Soccer Mom, Sarah (why her hair wasnt at least dyed blond is beyond me or simply chosen an actress who resembled the original)
The only really satisfying thing lately was seeing the submarine USS Jimmy Carter imploding when it reached crush depth the same way Carters Presidency did. Right now Im just waiting to see how they end the series.
On another note Im waiting to see how badly ABC screws up the new “V” TV series – Im hoping its not worse than the first try after the two successful miniseries 1983-1985. I am looking forward to Kenneth Johnson big screen “V” set decades after the original 1983 miniseries (which excludes events of V: The Final Battle – good up until the final 30 minutes and the horrifying glowing girl thing).
I still think that it is not wright to call Monday demo numbers as horrible, you may say that they are not good enough for renewal but it is clear that they are good enough for full season order..
TSCC’s numbers on Monday were hovering around 5 million and a 2.0. Yes, that was horrible.
I live in France and I love Dollhouse! I don’t want to so this great serie disapears!
Have not only american fan! Think about us please >.<
Hagi,TSCC only got a full season order either because Warner made a deal with Fox or they thought that Sci-Fi Fridays would work. It had nothing to do with the show’s ratings.
TSCC has gone up in the ratings 3 weeks in a row, while Dollhouse sunk in the ratings. Maybe, next week TSCC will surpass the horrible Dollhouse. TSCC would be beating Dollhouse if the time slots were reversed. I knew TSCC was doomed when they paired it off with the DOA Dollhouse and sent it off to the wastelands of Friday night. Dollhouse couldn’t have had a more negative spin on it before it debuted from the media. Its horrible buzz is why it was moved to Fridays rather than sticking with the original plan. I’m normally a fan of Joss’ work, but this show sucks.
G, the only problem with women parading around half-naked on TV is that’s all they do – parade around. This is the angle to get 18-34 boys interested and 18-34 girls intrigued with new Pussycat Doll-type ” role models. ” If you’re jealous of beautiful people, its best not to watch TV or just watch PBS. Eroticism has been part of art since Venus on the Half-Shell … and Michealangelo’s David ( who’s as naked as a jaybird.) Part of Tv’s problem I think is the shizophrenic attitude towards sex — hypocritically tease you to sell ad time, but with few exceptions show no actual erotic scenes. ( Obviously not meaning nudity – that will never happen, except occasionally on basic cable with that obscene pixillation or black bars.) And, its funny how protective people arte of Elisha. I remember reading some overcompensating male movie critic lambasting a movie for ” exploiting ” her because she was wearing spandex shorts or something. Has this actress got some subconscious endangered waif thing going here? I think she’s your standard beautiful twentysomething who can sneer and scowl and roll her eyes ( ” Bring it On ” for eg ); aside from that, nothing special.
“TSCC has gone up in the ratings 3 weeks in a row”
No.
It hasn’t grown three weeks running and it hasn’t gone up three weeks running. It grew for three weeks and then stopped. It went up for three weeks and then stopped.
yes G. this is what happens in televisions: boys and girls gets naked avery day in every slot at any hour in american television, so cartoons such as the family guy. if you are not agree with me stay tuned on HBO or Showtime sometime. no no they are not porn channel, but tv by cable. or stay tuned on gossip girl or desperate housewife. is it a shook for you?? do we have to explain you something else: how a girl became woman or how the children born??
“No.
It hasn’t grown three weeks running and it hasn’t gone up three weeks running. It grew for three weeks and then stopped. It went up for three weeks and then stopped.”
Alex, how could you say that it stopped. do you have the numbers for next week? Do you have an ability to see next weeks numbers?
“Hagi,TSCC only got a full season order either because Warner made a deal with Fox or they thought that Sci-Fi Fridays would work. It had nothing to do with the show’s ratings.”
Michael, this is also a speculation, and i do not think that fox accepts such a deal if TSSC’s ratings werent good enough…
“Alex, how could you say that it stopped. do you have the numbers for next week? Do you have an ability to see next weeks numbers?”
At what point did I speculate on future numbers? My point was very simply (and has been made a couple of times now) TSCC did not grow this week. I know this to be a fact because I have the ability to recognise when numbers are the same. Allow me to demonstrate
This week TSCC scored a 1.3
Last week TSCC scored a 1.3
Perhaps its just me that sees this but those numbers are in fact the same and since the numbers are the same TSCC did not grow this week. As I said it grew for three weeks and then stopped – this week being the stop since the numbers are the same.
And allow me to pre-empt your reply with this response – total viewers are meaningless.
According to Reilly:
“We would like to renew DOLLHOUSE.”
There you have it. So the 1.3 didn’t matter. I didn’t think it would. They want the show to trend up.
Was this week bleeding or NCAA Tourney? Since they expected a drop last week (and this week) because of the Tourney, there is no way to know for sure.
If it gets a 1.3 or 1.4 this week, it’s dead, whether or not they would like to renew it. I said before getting a 1.4 is a death sign unless it trends back up. Nothing has changed.
Robert, I’m not that stupid. You know it. C3 matters. Period. What is causing the bump is pointless, it gets the bump. FRINGE gets the same benefit of being a top 20 show in the demos, because of the bump. DOLLHOUSE gets a bump too. Yes, yes, REMOTE FREE TV is the cause. It doesn’t matter. It gets the bump. It has higher brand retention. That is more important than anything else.
Plus I heard the show actually finished with a 1.4 for Friday Night in finals. Not sure if that is correct, but what I heard.
Nick, it DOES matter, since all reports indicate that Remote Free TV is dead and gone next season. The people at FOX can’t possibly be stupid enough to think that they can sell ads at the current C3 rate it is getting if they air it without Remote Free TV.
What I don’t understand is how could iFMagazine make this statement when the ratings are so awful?
http://www.ifmagazine.com/review.asp?article=3133
DOLLHOUSE has thankfully found its way. Let’s hope it wasn’t too late. The ratings have been pretty good and creatively it’s hitting its stride, so let’s hope by finally getting invested in the show, Fox doesn’t pull the plug just as its getting pretty damn good. Boy would that make so many of us REALLY angry!
Never underestimate how stupid people can be Julia!
Y in fairness to them until this weeks epiosde the show had seemingly leveled off in 1.5 region. Why they called that pretty good I don’t know although…
Y, the “ratings have been pretty good” is the only part of that statement that’s objectively wrong, and it certainly is. The rest is just subjective evaluation of the show’s content that people can, and do, argue about to no end.
Nick, I don’t think you are stupid, and I know that C3 matters.
Sans remote free I do not think Dollhouse’s C3 ratings would be disproportionately better than average as they are WITH remote free. You seem to agree with that. Where we disagree is that you don’t seem to think that matters. For similar reasons as Julia, I do think it matters. A lot!
I’m with Robert and Julia. If Remote Free doesn’t reappear – and I doubt it will since they had terrible problems selling the spots – it makes returning it very much more difficult.
Also – “We would like to renew DOLLHOUSE.” Where’s that from?
In terms of DOLLHOUSE news, I’ve got one bit – the sets are still up. I checked. FOX have shot an episode of BONES on them, and a pilot, but they’ve asked the sets remain on the soundstage. So they’re clearly waiting it out some more.
Since hordes of people go out to see junk like Adam Sandler movies, Will Ferrell movies, and hordes of juvenile sf and horror movies that are as about intelligent as a wet noodle, it doesn’t take a brain surgeon or rocket scientist to figure out the nature of the viewing habits of the average American. Most Americans don’t like anything that requires more than a college sophomore party mentality (think Sean Penn in Fast Times–a wonderful parody). Most Americans prefer to watch mediocre crap like Friends or How I Met Your Mother as opposed to thoughtful and well written shows like Dollhouse. These are, after all, the same geniuses that think that audience numbers equal quality. C’est la vie. Beam me up Mr. Gumby.
Audience numbers = profit, Ronald. Networks are businesses.
Ronald Helfrich: So Americans are stupid because they don’t watch Joss Whedon’s shows. Since every idea that he’s ever came up with original appeared in comic books (usually from the 1970s to mid-1980s), can you tell me what advanced degree courses I can attend so I can impress people with my knowledge–because I have a buttload of old comics in the attic.
What I don’t get is why some of you people have this pathological desire to bash everyone else’s hopes… You’re so negative it’s not even funny.
A positive person would say “TSCC needs ____ to be renewed”, instead all you keep saying and repeating and repeating like a bunch of bots is “TSCC is dead, it had HORRIBLE ratings Monday it had HORRIBLE RATINGS NOW ITS DEAD DIE DAMNIT!” It’s like you win a bet or something when you are proven correct. Regardless, everyone hates you. (Most of my comments refer to RHS and Julia)
Seriously, I’m not commenting on here on how bad I think Dollhouse is, even though I’ve been a long time fan of Whedon… I’m not here commenting on how this or that show will get canceled for sure… Why bother? Who’s gonna care?
This is like predicting the end of the world… Even if you’re right, why would anyone want to know if there is nothing they can do about it? Hence, why “Knowing” is such a critical flop (though made lotta money because people thought there was hope).
I think both Dollhouse and TSCC have a chance. All you people do is speculate. You know it’s easy to cancel comedy shows and sitcoms, it happens all the time, scripted shows can be improved, sitcoms cannot easily be improved. If JF made a secret deal with Fox about creative direction of the next season, and so they agreed to allow another season, you wouldn’t know… So what’s your point of speculating?
Is there an email from the angels telling you “QUICK JULIA/RICHARD-STEVEN-HACKS YOU MUST WARN THE PEOPLE AND FANS OF DOLLHOUSE AND TSCC THAT THE SHOW WILL BE CANCELED, YOU MUST INFORM THEM BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!! PS: Be sure to emphasize they cannot stop it and nothing they can do about it!”
So please look in a mirror, and the next time you post a comment think “does anyone really want this speculation and negative opinion from me?”
Furthermore, before Season 2 break… TSCC was one of TOPPPPPPPP SHOWS on Fox. Relative rankings were: 5th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 7th… And with such a LOWWWWW sample, they had a break of 2 weeks then another break of 1 week, a complete audience disconnect… And just as it was building up back to it’s previous state, they made a TWWWWWOOOOO MONTH BREAK, and the show continued on Friday.
The fact that the show has even had 3.7 mil people still watching it, was a MIRACLE.
@Ronald Helfrich, How I met your mother can be funny at times…
But I do agree Friends is so cliche and unfunny that I can’t believe it ever received a second season. I guess hot chicks are important.
But I do believe you’re missing a component. While Joss Whedon is a great writer, his shows can be extremely strange or odd. Dollhouse is beyond the most strange show I have ever seen/heard of other than maybe 4400 or Heroes… And shows like this are way too strange to keep a sustained audience.
On the other hand, while Star Trek, Star Wars, are also quite strange, it isn’t as far fetched as we think, in distant futures.
Jonathan, for the last time, TSCC was the third worst scripted show on Fox before the break and they almost cancelled it.
“Sans remote free I do not think Dollhouse’s C3 ratings would be disproportionately better than average as they are WITH remote free.”
It doesn’t speak to C3 per se, but last Friday’s episode left me wondering whether Remote-Free might be a double-edged sword. It seemed to come on as a jumble, and between washing a few forks (the TV’s in the kitchen) and stepping out to cop a square during the breaks, halfway through I realized I didn’t really know what was going on.
Well, I thought, I can always rewatch it on-line. Shortly thereafter, it occurred to me that I had already blown seven hours in exchange for a few entertaining moments in the form of Harry Lennix, and I tossed the project out the figurative window.
The point isn’t so much to knock on Dollhouse as it is to speculate whether the demand placed upon the viewer by the Remote-Free treatment might actually serve to speed the exodus of viewers from any given show that isn’t perceived as living up to its end of the bargain.
Jonathan: “A positive person would say “TSCC needs ____ to be renewed”
I’ve made recommendations for the show to be improved all season long on the TSCC sites. So did other fans. The complaints were obvious.
Friedman didn’t give a damn – he had his game plan and he executed it until apparently somebody at Fox told him the show was dead if he kept executing it.
So he crammed as much of the recommendations as he could into, what, the last three or four episodes, in a desperate attempt to keep the show alive?
So now the show is dead. It has nothing to do with bashing, it has to do with clowns like you who come on here and proclaim it’s NOT dead based on nothing but wishful thinking.
I’ll re-iterate once again for people who can’t read: TSCC is one of only FOUR shows I even bother to watch (the other three are Fringe, Leverage and Dollhouse). And I have to download it to do that – not just flip on the TV or the DVR. The show has occupied a massive amount of my time since it debuted – in fact, before then, since I downloaded the original pilot months before. I eagerly awaited every episode during season one. I eagerly awaited the first episode of season two. I eagerly awaited every episode of season two – until it started to develop serious problems. Even then, I watched every episode hoping Josh would surprise me and deal with the problems.
Didn’t happen. The show got worse and worse.
And now we find out from Josh’s Wired article that he never DID get what Terminator was about. For him, it was all about “mortality” and cancer because he had cancer. It was ALWAYS a “family drama” for him. Nothing else mattered.
And that’s why the show bombed. Because it was never Terminator except for more or less nine episodes in season one. And had it gone 22 episodes in season one, it would have died in season one and probably never been renewed for season two.
So, yes, I’m pissed off. I’m pissed off that one of my favorite shows, a show with the potential to be the biggest hit on television and set the bar for sci-fi on broadcast TV for the next decade, was turned into crap and canceled.
And it pisses me off that a bunch of morons cheered that on because THEY didn’t get what Terminator was about, or they didn’t want to seem like they weren’t mindless supporters of whatever Josh decided to stuff down their throats.
Which is why I don’t call myself a “fan” of anything, because it’s just such behavior that gives being a “fan” of anything a bad name.
To the person who says why don;’t more people watch Dollhouse, well I do watch it (because I’m stuck at home for the last few weeks and will be for a few more) and the bottom line is it’s a bad show. Really bad. I don’t know who they have writting it but the ideas are crap and its all over the place. amatuer. maybe if josh w. had hired better people, but that’s what you get i guess.
So to answer your question – why aren’t more people watching it? – well, it isn’t good. Not even okay. It’s just bad.
nick – why watch it if you admit its bad, i don’t understand. i don’t like lost i wont sit watching it even if im home and its on, i have a million other stations, music, internet, heck i could even tidy and clean (well maybe not the last one). i find it odd you watch a show you see as flawed?
Sammy01, it’s lent. People do all kinds of sacrifices during lent. Watching all the first 5 episodes of Dollhouse would count as sacrifice, and to the atonement of one’s sins.
S. – don’t give dollhouse fans excuses/ideas, next week we will have ‘its numbers were down cus people weren’t watching it for lent’, religion is to blame for dollhouses bad numbers lol
@Jonathan: I’d agree with you to a point, if this was a TSCC fan forum and everybody would just show up to crush your hopes and dreams, but actually it’s pretty much the other way around.
You are coming to a site about TV ratings and although it’s completely obvious that TSCC’s ratings are horrible, that they are the worst of anything on TV, that they suck as hard as they possibly could, you insist everyone should have to pet your hair and tell you the show will survive based solely on it’s dubious quality and its lackluster DVD sales.
What you apparently need a reality check about even more than TSCC renewel prospects is your attitude on the internet. The internet is not your save space and you do not get to set the rules of interaction most places.
If TSCC ending is really compareble to the end of the world to you and you cannot know about it, then don’t fricking seek out ratings discussions. Stay on fan boards or better yet far far away from the internet.
Richard Steven Hack says:
“I’ll re-iterate once again for people who can’t read: TSCC is one of only FOUR shows I even bother to watch”
Does this get you a decoder ring or something?
of course it does boris…
Jonathan, welcome to reality, we’ve been waiting for you. oh wait.. thats not right.. you still think tscc might get renewed.. never mind.
Come on people, be kind to Jonathan, he is just filling the void created by Brooke Shields finally admitting that Lipstick Jungle is not coming back.
@ Richard Steven Hack
It took me a while but I know where you’re coming from. Like you I had massive expectations when I saw the pilot of TSCC. I was misled and thought it would be about the fight between man and machine. It seems it’s a one woman show. Like the name says The Sarah Connor Chronicles. Huge mistake.
They should’ve centered it around John Connor and\or Cameron against Skynet. I still don’t know about Dekker but Glau is an incredibly talented actress and you don’t bench your star quarterback! Some episodes have her standing around somewhere in the background saying nothing. Add that she has 2 minutes of screentime in like 3 episodes or something and you get the drift. Josh Friedman can make a succesfull Terminator show but he needs to be pushed to do the right things, not come to terms with his own illness and set that in the show.
Summer Glau, you are better than this.
“TSCC was one of TOPPPPPPPP SHOWS on Fox”
Jonathan that’s just factually incorrect.
The only point in time that TSCC was a top show on Fox was during its first season when it was the only show on television and even then it somehow managed to bleed viewers on a weekly basis, which is a somewhat impressive achievement. However at no point during its second season was TSCC one of Fox’s top shows, the opposite is in fact true – it was (and remains) one of their worst performing shows of the season.
Having said that if you want to continue to hope that TSCC is renewed and if you wish to continue to state that hope then go for it but don’t expect others who disagree to simply sit on their hands. If you want to post that you think the show could come back you have to accept that others are going to post that it won’t.
In terms of what TSCC needs to get renewed as has been said already – it needs a miracle. There are a handful of episodes left and across those episodes it needs to go up a point in the demo but even then I wouldn’t promise a pick-up for a third season. At this point TSCC has sunk too low for too long to make it a worthwhile investment for Fox. Especially as its not ‘their’ show.
I think when DOLLHOUSE & SARAH are “executed” – TV by The Numbers has to wonder – will it kill some of the traffic that comes thru this site for Saturday thru Monday chats…and what will people talk about then on the weekends…? What…Super Nanny ratings…? I think not.
RG, last season it was Moonlight, which managed to spread well into this season. Next season another new Friday night failure will come along to spark discussion.
Dollhouse has gotten better but like some people mentioned, is it too late?
I think with a stronger actress in the main part (Amy Acker anyone?) it may have done better but I don’t think Eliza can pull off the range.
FRIENDS was one of the highest rated sitcoms of it’s decade which sold internationally incredibly well to networks all over the world due to it’s universal appeal.
It doesn’t matter if you like a show. This is a website about ratings. About profit and loss. If you’re invested emotionally in a TV show, you’re probably in the wrong place.
Dollhouse is a huge failure. I love you numbers guys, though. So desperate. In five years what % of 18-35 year olds are 18-49? I want it NOW, renegade angel. I told you Castle and Lipstick Jungle and Belly and Motherhood … can it be women have really adapted to the electroworld? Can it be they have cut us loose and are no longer under our thumb? Can it be P and G are going the way of GM and IBM? Are women really free? Only joshing. But it makes me wonder who will catch lightning in a bottle like Jesus or larry david or Whedon did. These TV exercs must be shi##ing bricks … I love it, and so does Shakti and Yog Sototh. Brains, brains, brains …
I just saw the finals and Dollhouse fell below T:SCC is terms of viewers! Haha!
RJ, but Dollhouse went up to 1.4 in the demo, so it is no longer tied with TSCC.
TSSC’s increase in ratings continues, according to final numbers, total viewers increased from 3.72 m to 3.87 m, demo stays flat 1.3. If this trend continues this week, total number may be more than 4m…
I’d be very surprised if T:SCC goes up next week, last Friday’s episode was very Sarah centric and pretty much undid the JC development in the previous episode. It was much more like those episodes that lost viewers than those that gained viewers.
I suspect a fairly substantial number of T:SCC viewers are people who are waiting for closure rather than people who look forward to it every week. My wife and I are certainly part of the former group and of the people we know personally, the same view prevails. It’s unfortunate.
Does anyone know the half-hourly figures for T:SCC this week? Did it gain or lose substantial numbers of viewers as it ran?
Omg, you guys basically 1) Either don’t know how to read or 2) are just so stupid that you don’t understand what I am saying…
I did not say TSCC has a good chance to renew. I did not say I am ignoring the numbers that TSCC is in great danger… So I don’t understand, why are you repeating yourselves? Are you retarded?
I was simply saying that there is no reason for you to keep saying the ratings of the show are horrible and how much you are sure it will be canceled. No one cares, just shut up already?
You are welcome to comment on “the ratings this week indicate ______”
You are welcome to comment on “the show needs to achieve at least ____ million viewers to have a chance at season 3″
Someone will care. But no one is going “so you guys think it will be canceled?” So why are you answering that question constantly? We already know the show is most likely going to be canceled… That doesn’t mean the show has 0 chance of being renewed.
Share news, don’t be a the deliverer of the obvious.
And YOUUU are factually incorrect:::
TSCC WAS one of the TOP shows on Fox, at the premiere of Season 2. As well as a later episode. It bled viewers yes, but only about a million from the premiere level, which is not surprising.
There were so many other shows available, and people have been watching less TV ever since the writer’s strike season. Online viewership is higher than ever, especially after the writer’s strike. These are all factors that say to an executive “things are not the way it seems.” The measuring stick has changed. And it would be absurd for researchers at a network to ignore these facts.
people have been watching less TV ever since the writer’s strike season.
That is wrong. Evidence shows that people are watchin more TV than ever.
Too Bad for Dollhouse. I like Whedons shows, but the first 5 episodes I honestly didn’t see as great. That being said, the liked the last 3 episodes. I wonder how expensive it is to make? Too bad the show doesn’t fit the CW’s demo target, it could be a Friday hit for them. Maybe SyFy could pick them up to replace BSG on Fridays when Fox gives the show the axe. I still believe the NCAA tournament is affecting the show, as we get to the final 4 the more people will be watching. We will soon find out.