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| Rating/Share: Adults 18-49 | 4.9/12 | 4.4/11 | 3.6/9 | 2.3/6 | 1.9/5 | 0.5/1 |
| Rating/Share: Adults 18-34 | 4.0/11 | 3.7/10 | 2.6/7 | 1.7/5 | 2.1/6 | 0.6/2 |
| Total Viewers (million) | 13.745 | 12.024 | 14.902 | 6.405 | 4.573 | 1.110 |
While the blowout nature of the game certainly limited its numbers, the NCAA Mens Basketball Final was still enough to push CBS to the victory on Monday night averaging a 4.9 rating for the adults 18-49 demo. Fox was a reasonably close second for the night averaging a 4.4 rating. The rest of the English broadcast competition fared about as well as the Michigan State Spartans.
Those NCAA Tournament numbers were down from last year when the fast affiliate rating was a 6.5, but looking at the half hourly data you can see the audience bail as the game quickly got lopsided.
Only competing with an hour of basketball certainly helped Fox, House had its best rating since late February, as did 24.
Dancing With The Stars had its lowest demo rating of the spring. Following it the series premiere of Surviving Suburbia averaged a 3.2 demo rating. Not bad, but that certainly includes some Dancing overrun. It will be interesting to see the final numbers. Castle’s 2.4 demo rating equaled its lowest ever. That might not be enough to survive until next season.
The news for NBC wasn’t any better. Chuck and Medium both matched their original episode series low demo ratings, and Heroes established a new all-time low.
Note that due to the live sporting event these fast affiliate overnight results for CBS are approximate and subject to revision. See below for more details.
Note from Seidman: Sorry folks, to keep our site up and running, I am shutting off the comments on this post for now. We are dealing with struggling server issues. I apologize for the inconvenience. OK, I have turned them back on…
Previous Monday overnight reports are available for comparison.
Full details:
| 18-49 Rating | 18-49 Share | 18-34 Rating | 18-34 Share | Viewers Live+SD (000s) | |||
| 8:00 | FOX | House | 4.7 | 13 | 4.3 | 14 | 12,349 |
| ABC | Dancing With the Stars | 3.8 | 11 | 2.8 | 9 | 17,508 | |
| CBS | Big Bang Theory (repeat) | 3.2 | 9 | 2.3 | 7 | 8,862 | |
| NBC | Chuck | 2.0 | 6 | 1.6 | 5 | 6,030 | |
| UNI | Cuidado con el Angel | 1.9 | 5 | 2.1 | 7 | 4,726 | |
| CW | Gossip Girl (repeat) | 0.5 | 1 | 0.6 | 2 | 1,212 | |
| 8:30 | FOX | House | 5.2 | 13 | 4.8 | 14 | 13,679 |
| ABC | Dancing With the Stars | 4.5 | 11 | 3.3 | 9 | 19,892 | |
| CBS | How I Met Your Mother (repeat) | 3.3 | 9 | 2.5 | 7 | 8,450 | |
| NBC | Chuck | 2.1 | 5 | 1.6 | 5 | 5,994 | |
| UNI | Cuidado con el Angel | 2.1 | 5 | 2.3 | 7 | 5,131 | |
| CW | Gossip Girl (repeat) | 0.5 | 1 | 0.6 | 2 | 1,076 | |
| 9:00 | ABC | Dancing With the Stars | 5.2 | 12 | 3.9 | 11 | 21,374 |
| CBS | NCAA Basketball Pregame | 4.7 | 11 | 3.7 | 10 | 13,680 | |
| FOX | 24 | 3.9 | 9 | 3.0 | 8 | 11,308 | |
| NBC | Heroes | 2.6 | 6 | 2.5 | 7 | 5,975 | |
| UNI | Manana Es Para Siempre | 2.1 | 5 | 2.4 | 6 | 5,136 | |
| CW | One Tree Hill (repeat) | 0.4 | 1 | 0.6 | 2 | 1,030 | |
| 9:30 | CBS | NCAA Basketball Final | 6.5 | 15 | 5.2 | 14 | 18,910 |
| FOX | 24 | 3.6 | 9 | 2.7 | 7 | 10,762 | |
| ABC | Surviving Suburbia | 3.2 | 8 | 2.4 | 6 | 12,160 | |
| NBC | Heroes | 2.6 | 6 | 2.4 | 6 | 6,129 | |
| UNI | Manana Es Para Siempre | 2.2 | 5 | 2.5 | 7 | 5,218 | |
| CW | One Tree Hill (repeat) | 0.5 | 1 | 0.6 | 2 | 1,121 | |
| 10:00 | CBS | NCAA Basketball Final | 6.3 | 15 | 5.2 | 14 | 17,506 |
| ABC | Castle | 2.5 | 6 | 1.7 | 5 | 9,594 | |
| NBC | Medium | 2.3 | 5 | 1.2 | 3 | 7,194 | |
| UNI | Cristina | 1.5 | 4 | 1.7 | 5 | 3,916 | |
| 10:30 | CBS | NCAA Basketball Final | 5.5 | 14 | 4.8 | 13 | 15,060 |
| ABC | Castle | 2.3 | 6 | 1.7 | 5 | 8,886 | |
| NBC | Medium | 2.1 | 5 | 1.1 | 3 | 7,106 | |
| UNI | Cristina | 1.3 | 3 | 1.4 | 4 | 3,307 |
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Shows are sorted by adults 18-49 rating in each time slot.
Nielsen TV Ratings: ©2009 The Nielsen Company.
Definitions:
Fast Affiliate Ratings: These first national ratings, including demographics, are available at approximately 11 AM (ET) the day after telecast, and are released to subscribing customers daily. These data, from the National People Meter sample, are strictly time-period information, based on the normal broadcast network feed, and include all programming on the affiliated stations, sometimes including network programming, sometimes not. The figures may include stations that did not air the entire network feed, as well as local news breaks or cutaways for local coverage or other programming. Fast Affiliate ratings are not as useful for live programs and are likely to differ significantly from the final results, because the data reflect normal broadcast feed patterns. For example, with a World Series game, Fast Affiliate Ratings would include whatever aired from 8-11PM on affiliates in the Pacific Time Zone, following the live football game, but not game coverage that begins at 5PM PT. The same would be true of Presidential debates as well as live award shows and breaking news reports.
Rating: Estimated percentage of the universe of TV households (or other specified group) tuned to a program in the average minute. Ratings are expressed as a percent.
Share (of Audience): The percent of households (or persons) using television who are tuned to a specific program, station or network in a specific area at a specific time. (See also, Rating, which represents tuning or viewing as a percent of the entire population being measured.)
Time Shifted Viewing – Program ratings for national sources are produced in three streams of data – Live, Live+Same Day (Live+SD) and Live+7 Day. Time shifted figures account for incremental viewing that takes place with DVRs which are currently in approximately 24.4% of all U.S. TV households. Live+Same Day (Live+SD) include viewing during the same broadcast day as the original telecast, with a cut-off of 3:00AM local time when meters transmit daily viewing to Nielsen for processing. Live+7 Day ratings include incremental viewing that takes place during the 7 days following a telecast.
For more information see Numbers 101.
9 30 is surviving suberbia not dancing with the stars
2.0
nuts….
castle did very well without the dwts lead in
Those CW numbers have to be repeats, right?
LOL. Univision almost beat Heroes
Those ratings for Heroes are horrible.
DWTS did very well but I bet CBS will be pleased about the basketball which was scored a decent demo throughout the night. BBT and HYMYM did surprisenly well for repeats.
House is a solid hit for FOX and I predict that they will keep until Hugh Laurie decides he’s had enough. The CW need to sort out their schedules as the repeats aren’t working.
Robert or Bill, is there a problem with the site as I was unable to access it for a while.
I’m surprised Castle held up so well. I was expecting it to drop like a ton of bricks, but instead the 10:30 half hour is actually up 0.2 from last week, and it only dropped 0.1 overall.
Can’t wait to see Surviving Suburbia’s finals. While this is far better than the rest of ABC’s new comedies, I don’t think this was the multi-cam saving show that some people were expecting.
And, wow, Heroes. 2.6 was the number I guessed this season would bottom out at. But is this really the bottom yet?
yes, the CW shows WERE repeats.
So Chuck will get revised up to about 6.05M viewers, and a 2.1/6 share.
Not great, but holding steady.
Chuck was awesome last night.
2.0?
SAVE CHUCK.
Or…or-
I swear, I’ll -
- cry about it?
It’s not much of a threat, but I won’t be alone in my weeping.
Castle did a 2.4 in the demo… that good enough so it’ll stick around? Please let it be so.
Cue Alex showing up and making his mandatory 25 Anti Chuck posts.
At this point I hope the show is renewed just to spite that guy.
Ouch!#! Heroes under 3.0 in both demos. Chuck’s numbers stayed steady although it’s still horrible. At least, Medium numbers weren’t any better.
I don’t watch House but am a little happy that it beat DWTS in the demos. Stupid reality tv.
My thoughts exactly, Mike. Not great, but holding steady.
Chuck was already a 2.1 in the overnights for the hour — it’s just some rounding issues with us not seeing half hourly ratings out to the hundredths of a ratings point.
At least Chuck maintained and didn’t drop (if the demo averages out at 2.1 as reported by James Hibberd) it will be interesting to see how it does in finals.
I noticed that this site was down for while, what was going on there? … conspiracy methinks LOL
Gusar, if Castle can actually hold 2.4, I think ABC will order 13 episodes for the new season. At least if The Unusuals tanks. But if it drops to 2.3 next week, I’m ready to call it dead.
Did the NCAA game air earlier in some states?
Yes, Leah, last nite’s Chuck was amazing. I’m expecting an Emmy for Zac Levi.
Castle held up very well, that pretty confirms that CSI:Miami and Castle are sharind an audience.
Best episodeof Chuck ever last night. Im glad the ratings are holding up!
Wow! I know it doesn’t matter but Chuck got more total viewers than Heroes!
I think Chuck should be a lot safer than Heroes…. Heroes cost a lot more to make, and Chuck is neck and neck with it.
Hey, there’s a little sugestion for you (robert or bill). I agree that 18-49 is most important than total viewers, but following that line of thought, don’t you think viewers is most important than 18-34 and should be the 3rd row. Just an idea
I’m relatively impressed with how well Castle held up without the Dancing with the Stars lead-in. There may be hope for it yet. Of course a 2.4 is still pretty bad. Could be worse though and I think most people expected it to be worse so it wins the battle of expectations this week I guess.
Surviving Suburbia did better than I expected but still not especially well. It’ll be interesting to see where it lands when the Dancing over run is stripped away. But a debut that’s worse than Kath & Kim’s probably isn’t a great sign, especially not with that lead-in.
The NBC line-up is just dead but its great to see Chuck go up when it airs opposite CBS repeats… oh wait…
And hey look at that House beats Dancing with the Stars again – let there be dancing in the street for the ‘reality is evil’ crowd.
CHUCK did well actually. On the West Coast it was up against the NCAA Final. So those numbers aren’t bad at all for CHUCK fans. For HEROES fans though… it’s the NCAA Final, it won’t be on next week. If HEROES jumps back above 3.0 that is a good sign. If it remains in the 2s, don’t be shocked when the official pick up of HEROES is 13 episodes and not the 18 they were originally considering.
Consider that CHUCK had Scott Bakula and Chevy Chase on, and NBC aired little to no promos. In fact on the biggest night of the week to air a promo for the show they didn’t. So it sticking with the 2.1 despite going up against the Basketball game on the West Coast is big. That means that CHUCK has likely bottomed out. Is it capable of growth? If yes (and NBC does like the show) then you try a new night next season (say Wednesday 8/7pm). If they feel no, then enjoy the final episodes.
I am incredibly impressed with Surviving Suburbia. Just goes to show that all you need to succeed is to not air on the CW. Okay, maybe there’s a little more to it but escaping that ratings deathtrap certainly helped.
24 is just gettin awesome and awesome !!
poor hereos !! ,, house what the huck !! 12mil , i remember beein abvoe 15mil
but still great
Chris S, are you incredibly impressed with Surviving Suburbia’s numbers or quality? Because from what I saw last night, the latter is downright awful. And I think its numbers will likely drop pretty quickly because of it.
I’m hopeful for Castle, simply because none of the other midseason shows have done well and I expect the unusuals to tank.
Yasser House may have lower total viewers but it owned Dancing with the Stars demo wise at 8.
And Chris S it might be a little too early to be proclaiming Surviving Suburbia a hit.
House did well where it faced NCAA on the west coast and had its best outing in weeks. Chuck, on the other hand, tied a series low 18-49 rating. Not sure there is a good way to spin that, even with the B-ball. But hopefully it has bottomed out. NBC did promote Chuck during Kings, but it seems like only me and four other people would’ve seen that…
Alex, I was also surprised at Castle’s performance minus Dancing. Your question is a good one though: Will it be enough? My thought is… probably.
Between this and Cupid, I think Castle proved last night that it is certainly the stronger of the two.
“CHUCK did well actually. On the West Coast it was up against the NCAA Final.”
No Nick.
House did well, very well in fact. Chuck did not.
I think Castle’s fate will depend on ABC’s pilots. They have a nice amount of dramas, so it might not be necessary for them to keep Castle.
Heroes, Heroes, Heroes… I thought it had stopped the bleeding last week (although i also said there could be something that would come along and create a new bottom). It looks like NCAA did just that.
It’s looking like a 13 episode series wrap-up for the fall is becoming much more likely with every Monday that passes. It’s mind boggling to think of how much % decline this show has seen in one season.
I fully expect to Castle to comeback, it’s a procedural and if ABC is smart (!), they will repeat on the summer.
Good for SS as we need more traditional comedies on television. What ABC should look at is how great Castle did out of SS. Retention was around 75% so it benefited more out of SS than it did out of Dancing. ABC Monday is looking like their best all around night of the week.
Just shows how weak The CW really is as a network. I bet if 90210 which has a major episode tonight would be doing well right now on FOX. Only successful thing CW ever aired was Smackdown!
Unfortunate that the championship game was pretty much decided in the first 5 minutes and everyone tuned out quick. If it was a better match-up and a closer game from end to end, it could’ve kept a lot more people watching.
Alex, last I checked HOUSE aired on FOX. CHUCK airs on NBC.
CHUCK did well for NBC last night. HEROES dropped like a rock. CHUCK held firm despite it also going against the NCAA Final on the West Coast. CHUCK wasn’t promoted well at all for last night. In those circumstances the show did well.
Your inability to see the show’s numbers for what they really are amazes me. You make such absurd claims as the SUPER BOWL promotion didn’t work. When in fact it gave a larger boost than SUPER BOWL commercials do on average. Yes, the numbers dropped on the next airing, but that was 2 weeks later. It also didn’t help that most reviewers didn’t like the 3D episode (even the critics that like the show). You now make a claim that a show NOT dropping while going up against a demo killer like the NCAA FINAL wasn’t a decent showing!
CHUCK is pulling a 2.1 and holding steady on the most contested night of the week. It’s not bleeding viewers like other NBC shows. It might actually be able to get close to pulling 3.0s on Wednesday Nights up against LIE TO ME and the like.
NBC is a wasteland, and the few good things they have on, they don’t seem to know how to treat. They’re betting the farm on the Amy Poehler and SOUTHLAND show. Which is dumb. It’s just as dumb as during the SUPER BOWL betting the farm on THE OFFICE, and only promoting CHUCK 3D and HEROES.
OpeningDayGuy09,
That is bad reasoning.
Castle’s higher retention % is out of a WEAKER lead-in. That does not necessarily mean it’s overall numbers are higher.
In reality, it’s numbers were roughly the same as last week, which is a good sign, but possibly not enough to be renewed.
Nick C.,
Chuck is doing mediocre numbers EVEN FOR NBC.
Which is why people are worried that it might get canned EVEN THOUGH IT’S ON NBC.
Saying the show is not doing well is already into account that it’s on a fourth place network, otherwise it would be about as pointless as the Terminator renewal conversations.
128boy, compare it to HEROES. HEROES is bleeding viewers, CHUCK is not. They both are competing on the most competitive night of the week. I’d have moved both to Wednesdays already. CHUCK did well for receiving its lowest promotional budget of the season (despite Chase and Bakula) and for going up against the NCAA Final on the West Coast. Under those circumstances it did well for NBC.
NBC has used its promotional spots for SOUTHLAND and PARKS & RECREATION. The Monday Night lineup had their lowest promotional budget of the season last night. So in that way one could say HEROES did ok despite the drop going against the Final, and the lack of promotion. Not that there was anything worth promoting about HEROES. CHUCK on the other hand had Scott Bakula and Chevy Chase, two things that may have done something if promoted.
What are the odds that the 2.1 for Chuck gets revised up to a 2.2 when the DVR+3 numbers come out later this week?
“Good for SS as we need more traditional comedies on television. What ABC should look at is how great Castle did out of SS. Retention was around 75% so it benefited more out of SS than it did out of Dancing. ABC Monday is looking like their best all around night of the week.”
That would be true if television success was measured by how much of the previous shows audience you retained but it isn’t. Castle’s numbers dropped this week (less than expected but still dropped) so Surviving Suburbia is not a better lead in for it because the percentage of retention is better.
128, the lead-in is weaker because its not 21 million viewers its 12 million viewers but Castle’s retention was better out of SS. Castle could’ve easily bleeded 50% but it only bleeded 75% which is really good for Castle.
Until Castle airs at 8pm not against CBS procedurals like FOX’s Bones or Lie to Me then we can judge it successfully. Even when CBS doesn’t air Miami it still aired a stronger performer in the NCAA game.
Alex – we get that you a Chuck hater – I think you have made your point. Do you just do it to annoy people? You are like a broken record.
suburbia would be better for like a teen sitcom on disney channel wouldnt you agree?
Come on Heroes, you can get big numbers till the end of the season. Wow, Chuck can still be renewed…right? RIGHT!?
“Your inability to see the show’s numbers for what they really are amazes me. You make such absurd claims as the SUPER BOWL promotion didn’t work. When in fact it gave a larger boost than SUPER BOWL commercials do on average.”
You’ve said this a couple of times Nick but it isn’t true. Chuck’s Super Bowl increase was not the spectacular all conquering increase that you’ve painted it as at all. Lets do a quick comparison of Chuck’s Super Bowl increase vs. Heroes Super Bowl increase.
Chuck before it went on hiatus: 7.56 million viewers, 2.6 18-49 and 2.2 18-34
Heroes before it went on hiatus: 7.78 million viewers, 3.6 18-49 and 3.8 18-34
Chuck after Super Bowl promotion: 8.35 million viewers, 3.0 18-49 and 2.6 18-34
Heroes after Super Bowl promotion: 8.45 million viewers, 3.9 18-49 and 4.1 18-34
Conclusions, Chuck increased by about a hundred thousand viewers more than Heroes and a tenth in both demos more than Heroes. You can spin Chuck’s rise as a more impressive rise percentage wise (which is what you’ve done previously) but the key problem with that is that Chuck’s percentage increase is only impressive because the numbers were so low to begin with. When you look at the actual numbers Chuck’s increase coming out of the Super Bowl promotion wasn’t especially impressive and was certainly no more impressive than Heroes increase.
“Yes, the numbers dropped on the next airing, but that was 2 weeks later. It also didn’t help that most reviewers didn’t like the 3D episode (even the critics that like the show).”
If a show can’t survive being off the air for one week, particularly when all of its supposed competition is also off the air for that week then its not a show worth keeping around. What you also fail to mention is that the drop in and of itself isn’t the problem it’s the degree to which it dropped. Not only did it lose the Super Bowl promotion increase it lost members of the audience that were there before the show went on hiatus and it did it whilst CBS (apparently one of its main rivals) was in repeats and lost to said repeats.
The problem isn’t that the critics didn’t like the show the problem is that the people who watched it didn’t like it and didn’t stick around. I don’t care what the critical response to the show was or is, I’m talking strictly about its numbers.
“You now make a claim that a show NOT dropping while going up against a demo killer like the NCAA FINAL wasn’t a decent showing!”
Yeah because the NCAA final really killed the demos last night didn’t it? Its not like House pulled a 5.0 or 24 pulled a 3.8 or that Dancing with the Stars pulled a 4.5 or Surviving Suburbia debuted with a 3.2. No all those shows died last night against the killer NCAA final. Good call Nick. Oh but wait I forgot none of those shows were on NBC and apparently NBC is the only network that killed by the NCAA last night – just like Fox was the only network to get hit on Friday nights, right?
I was impressed with SS merely for having respectable numbers. If the show had premiered on the CW as planned it probably would have been a flop right out the gate. At least on ABC it has a chance greater than 0% of staying on the air more than one season. Kind of ironic when you consider that the threshold for the show’s success is now much much higher than it would have been on the CW!
Even though last night’s episode of House was very sad and dark, I still think it was a brilliant episode.
I guess other people thought so too because it increased .5 in the 18-49 demoes and 18-34, while also gaining 1.3 million viewers, demoes during the second half hour. That is very impressive(at least I think it is, I’m no expert).
I haven’t seen the half hour rating put up before for Mondays but I like it. I hope that you can put it up each week because I find it very interesting to see how these hour long shows do throughout their whole airtime.
CBW I also thought last nights House was excellent. Saying I really enjoyed it probably wouldn’t be the right way to word it though. But it was very good.
Oh but don’t let Nick hear you talking about great demos for House last night – don’t you know the NCAA is a demo killer!
OpeningDayGuy09, you seem to be entirely basing Castle’s success on it’s retention of an earlier slot and that’s pretty faulty, IMO.
I don’t think anyone was expecting Castle to drop 50% from SS because it had previously lost 50% from DwtS. SS is not a big lead-in and it’s numbers will come down even further in the finals.
FINALS: Suburbia dropped to a 3.0, Castle to 2.3. The game went up to 6.3
Alex, HOUSE like CHUCK held onto its demo from the week before. Like CHUCK, HOUSE didn’t go up against the Final in the majority of the country. Every other show saw a drop in the demo except HOUSE and 24. FOX did wonders against the Final.
The Final was off from previous years and as many have noted, UNC jumped to a 20 point lead 10 minutes into the game and never looked back. It wasn’t exciting, and as such people tuned into something else. So the numbers weren’t hurt as badly as they year before.
CHUCK went from a 2.6 to a 3.0 with the SUPER BOWL advertisement. A 15% increase. The AVERAGE over the last 20+ years of a show promoted during the SUPER BOWL is an 8% increase. So explain again how that wasn’t a success?
You can state what ever you want. It’s obvious you have a problem with CHUCK. Everyone notices it, and everyone makes fun of you for it. You’re worse than a fanboy.
The facts are that CHUCK did well last night under its circumstances. Any rational person with an understanding of the business would agree. Since you can’t see that, you’re either blind or irrational. I’m guessing you’re irrational.
CHUCK did better when it was going up against DWTS, the CBS line up, the CW line up, and TSCC. HOUSE is the gorilla on their back. Just as 24 seems to be the gorilla on the back of HEROES. 2.6 was actually good for NBC, and the 2.1 is good for NBC too, because the other shows have taken a hit.
Your slide remark about Friday Nights on Fox is silly. It just shows what a poor irrational person you are. You must be upset for being called out for being irrational. Tough. Rational people would realize that some shows are targeted at the same demo, and that the NCAA Tourney may affect a show aimed at young men, where as a show aimed at old ladies wouldn’t be affected.
Nick C,
You are using almost the same fallacious reasoning that OpeningDayGuy09 was using except it’s on demo bleeding rather than lead in retention.
OpeningDay was saying yay for Castle because it’s retention percent went up. Unfortunately it’s retention went up because it’s lead in numbers were lower.
Your argument is along the same lines. You are saying yay for Chuck because it’s stable, while Heroes dropped. Big deal… Heroes has a higher beginning number, which means it can drop half a point before it even reaches Chuck’s territory.
Now considering that Heroes is in a higher HUT level, if they were both getting 2.1 (or both getting 2.6) i would say that tie goes to Chuck. Or if Chuck was consistantly 2.1 and Heroes kept dropping and dropping and dropping to a 2.2 or 2.3, maybe I would say Chuck is stronger.
But neither one of those scenarios is the case. Heroes is STILL doing noticably better (especially among 18-34) than Chuck, and Chuck has only recently stabalized (it was also bleeding viewers not that many weeks ago… how soon people forget, and label their show “stable”).
Finally, let me say I probably wouldln’t have written any of this if you hadn’t spun it like this “CHUCK did well for NBC last night. HEROES dropped like a rock.” That makes it sound like Chuck is significantly stronger than Heroes.
It’s not.
Nick C.,
Who cares if Alex likes the show, dislikes the show, watches the show, or has never seen one single minute of it.
Last time I checked, you don’t have to watch a show to see what it’s ratings are.
From the handful of episodes I’ve seen, I personally think Chuck is O.K. Not great, but ok.
I also can see that the numbers are not healthy. And you, me, Alex, or anyone can comment on it regardless of our watching the show or not, or loving the show or hating it.
i think surviving suburbria will stick because bob sagat has a following. also the game while finish with a final 17 rating. over before the first tv timeout.
128boy, it’s because I live in a place called reality. In my world a show like CHUCK that is profitable is in a much better place than HEROES which is unprofitable. In my world HEROES has already been canned for the Fall for a show called DAY ONE. In my world HEROES is being renewed for the Spring and for a less than full season order. In my world HEROES once had 15M viewers, and now hovers around 6M viewers. In my world HEROES has been bleeding viewers non stop since the start of Season Two. In my world CHUCK hasn’t bled viewers. In my world CHUCK has been hit by HOUSE, but stabilized. HEROES has yet to stabilize.
HEROES is still bleeding viewers, and when it’s all said and done it could drop below CHUCK. CHUCK on the other hand is steady. HOUSE obviously hurt the show (just as 24 has hurt HEROES).
When you consider the two shows you have to remember that the show with a .5 lead in the demos costs over 3 times as much as the other show.
If you or Alex want to enter into my world of reality, I have no problem discussing the numbers. Alex keeps pouting that CHUCK is doing poorly, when in reality it’s holding up well for NBC. CHUCK still receives a 1.0 on the index here for renewal/cancel. Which means the show is holding up and doing well… just for NBC. Last night it had some rather special circumstances. It was up against the NCAA Final on the West Coast, and it had to deal with its lowest budget for promotion of the entire season. Under those circumstances CHUCK did extremely well. We’ll see how it does next week when it gets promoted this week during SOUTHLAND.
I think it’s safe to say CHUCK would likely be pulling its 2.6 number if HOUSE wasn’t up against it. I can’t safely say that for HEROES about 24 (pulling in its old numbers). Why? Because HEROES was bleeding viewers long before 24 went up against it. CHUCK on the other hand was steady.
I’m guessing Alex will come back by saying that if House is hurting Chuck, then why did Chuck not do so well two weeks ago when it went up against a House rerun and a CBS comedy block confusion?
All things being considered, I still think Chuck will come back for 13 episodes on a new night.
As for the CBS comedies, they did just amazing with repeats. Both shows will be a huge syndication goldmine. I wonder if Chuck had come right back from the strike, would BBT and HIMYM be doing so well today? Chuck and the CBS comedies were neck and neck before the strike and HIMYM was preparing for a series finale.
“Alex, HOUSE like CHUCK held onto its demo from the week before.”
Incorrect.
Last weeks House scored a 4.7 this weeks House scored a 5.0 that is quite clearly an increase upon its audience not a retention of it. More over this is also the best performance House has posted in sometime.
“Like CHUCK, HOUSE didn’t go up against the Final in the majority of the country.”
And yet earlier you were proclaiming how well Chuck performed because of the NCAA final – if the majority of the country weren’t watching the NCAA final when Chuck was on how exactly was its performance good? Some consistency on this point would be nice Nick, you can’t claim good because it retained its audience against the NCAA final and then write-off House’s numbers because the majority of the country weren’t watching the NCAA final when it was on.
“CHUCK went from a 2.6 to a 3.0 with the SUPER BOWL advertisement. A 15% increase. The AVERAGE over the last 20+ years of a show promoted during the SUPER BOWL is an 8% increase. So explain again how that wasn’t a success?”
As predicted you’ve rolled out the percentage spin of course I have already explained (and in this discussion) why Chuck’s Super Bowl increase wasn’t impressive however since you obviously skipped over that I’ll do it again.
The 15% increase you’re touting translates to four tenths of a demo point. Four tenths. To put that into perspective beyond the Heroes comparison I already posted let me point out that House during its 60 minute run time last night posted larger real term increases than Chuck did after the Super Bowl. It went up by more than a million viewers form half hour to half hour and produced bigger jumps in both demos than Chuck managed to produce for its Super Bowl promoted episode. That’s part of why Chuck’s Super Bowl increase isn’t impressive and didn‘t work. A show grew more during its run time last night without being promoted to more than 90 million people that Chuck did when it was promoted to more than 90 million people.
Part two would be that it went from a 3.0 to a 2.2 – a one week increase is meaningless. If you can’t hold onto the audience then how was it successful? You’ve made much of Hero bleeding viewers and yet glossed over the fact and excused the fact that Chuck went from a 3.0 to a 2.2. That isn’t bleeding viewers? That isn’t a drop to raise eyebrows at? No you’re right lets celebrate it bottoming out at a 2.1.
“The facts are that CHUCK did well last night under its circumstances. Any rational person with an understanding of the business would agree. Since you can’t see that, you’re either blind or irrational. I’m guessing you’re irrational.”
Why does this line of attack not surprise me? When ever anyone disagrees with something you post here Nick you roll this attack out – you’re irrational, blind, don’t understand the business and I’ve always been proven right.
The problem here Nick is that it is completely irrational to proclaim that Chuck bottoming out at a 2.1 is a good thing and that it somehow did well by retaining a 2.1 rating. The number wasn’t good last week, it isn’t good this week and it won’t be good next week the circumstances surrounding it really don’t matter at this point. And it is even more irrational to proclaim that Chuck is somehow doing well for maintaining a stable rating BELOW the ratings of another show. Where is the rational thought process there? That’s the same logic that brought about the ‘consistency metre’ someone used to proclaim that Dollhouse was doing well.
Your argument only becomes more irrational when you can’t decide whether the NCAA tournament really effects the 8PM hour or not.
“Your slide remark about Friday Nights on Fox is silly. It just shows what a poor irrational person you are. You must be upset for being called out for being irrational. Tough. Rational people would realize that some shows are targeted at the same demo, and that the NCAA Tourney may affect a show aimed at young men, where as a show aimed at old ladies wouldn’t be affected.”
So your ‘rational’ argument is that the NCAA tournament ‘steals’ young male viewers? So by extension your ‘rational’ argument is that 24 and House aren’t watched by young men but Dancing With The Stars is? That must be your argument since House and 24 both posted gains against NCAA last night but Dancing With The Stars dropped. And earlier on the NCAA was a ‘demo killer’ now it just steals young male viewers?
I love that you’re trying to paint me as the irrational one here Nick.
That Bob Saget knows he’s a beast. Everything he touches is gold. Should be interesting to see how SS does against Rules next week.
@Nick C:
You are very far from reality dude…
Heroes is much more profitable than Chuck no matter how you look at it.
Although it’s dropping, next week now that the big game is out of the way Heroes can rise a little in viewers and in the 18-49 rating.
And by the way, Heroes & Chuck were awesome last night!! It’s good to see Heroes in a better place than it was in Villians. Lets hope they don’t screw it up.
Congrats to House!! Take that DWTS!!
nick c.,
“In my world CHUCK hasn’t bled viewers”.
In my world, nick, Chuck has lost 0.9 demo (roughly one-third of it’s audience) since early February.
Sorry dude, you have lost credibility with a statement like that.
I really like Chuck (mainly because of Yvonne Strahovski) but I gotta agree with Alex’s perspective of Chuck’s situation, which may be a little too harsh for Chuck fans.
128 I was about to say the same thing.
@the128boy: @Alex:
Love what you guys have to say and great comebacks. “D
“In my world, nick, Chuck has lost 0.9 demo (roughly one-third of it’s audience) since early February.”
I think you have discount that super bowl-fueled episode. Chuck averaged somewhere between a 2.4-2.5 in the 18-49 demos before its hiatus. In reality, Chuck lost more like 0.3 of its demo.
*:D
“it’s because I live in a place called reality. In my world a show like CHUCK that is profitable is in a much better place than HEROES which is unprofitable.”
Strawman argument Nick.
Firstly I wasn’t (and haven’t) commented on Chuck’s profitability neither were you – you’re arguing that Chuck scoring a 2.1 is a good thing and that Chuck bottoming out at a 2.1 is a good thing and neither of those is true. Do I have a hard time believing that Chuck brings home more bottom line than Heroes does right now? Not really. But am I advocating that Heroes is in a strong position? No.
You’re argument is that Chuck is doing well because Heroes is doing badly.
My argument is that Chuck is doing badly because Chuck is doing badly.
When you have to point to the sinking ship to make yourself feel better something is going wrong.
“In my world HEROES has already been canned for the Fall for a show called DAY ONE. In my world HEROES is being renewed for the Spring and for a less than full season order”
That’s weird because in my world the show that you say is ‘doing well’ Chuck hasn’t been renewed at all (yet). Has no episode orders for anywhere on the schedule (yet). And is being discussed as a show that’s possibly getting axed. If you want to measure success on a Chuck vs. Heroes scales Heroes is winning right now but again that’s not the argument anyone else has made.
what the heack idol is still on at 9:04 i want Fringe
Alex,
“Chuck is doing badly because Chuck is doing badly.”
Beautifully put.
I mean honestly, it is barely BARELY, doing ok for nbc. NBC for crying out loud! And the only reason that all hope is not lost, are the severely mediocre numbers it got in the fall, before the ratings went down..
Pearl, I don’t think people can discount that superbowl episode.
If it had aired literally right after the superbowl, like the Office, then yeah, you would have to take it out. But the show was just promoted during the superbowl and aired the next day. Should we discount all heavily promoted episodes of all series? Should we take out premieres?
That’s another double standard I see a lot on here. People want to point to the 3D episode as what Chuck could do “if it was promoted right”, but when the shoe is on the other foot, they don’t want to compare Chuck’s current ratings to that episode.
Sorry people, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
I’m very surprised with Surviving Suburbia! it’s the most watched season premiere for a new show in ABC.
I don’t know why they don’t move Heroes to 8 o’clock. It’s obvious that 24 and Heroes have similar audiences. I always watch 24 when it airs and watch Heroes on Hulu. It would make so much more sense to air Heroes at 8. Sure, that would mean they’d have to move Chuck to 9, but no one watches Chuck anyway. I mean, no one besides the people on this website.
Alex, learn some reading comprehension skills.
First tell me how a Sweet 16 game is the NCAA Final. Please, enlighten me. The NCAA Final is a demo killer normally, it had an extremely weak performance last night due to lack of competition in the game. It was over before the first TV time out. That isn’t an exaggeration either. The Sweet 16 games generally only hurt male targeted demo shows. If you had experience in the industry you’d know that. The Final for what ever reason has a broader audience. Certainly you knew that already.
The only shows not hurt by the Final were aired on FOX. Even Uni saw a loss.
My final numbers on HOUSE say it got a 4.7, and last week it had a 4.7. Final numbers on CHUCK were a 2.1 and last week was a 2.1.
Your incredibly inane fascination with HOUSE has nothing to do with CHUCK and NBC. Did CHUCK retain its audience from last week? YES. Did the other Monday Night shows drop in the demo from last week? YES. Does that mean that CHUCK is likely to stay up in the renew/cancel index? YES.
All that matters is comparing CHUCK to NBC. Period. They aren’t going to cancel the show because it can’t beat HOUSE. They’re going to keep CHUCK based on how NBC is doing. NBC shows have been bleeding out, and CHUCK hasn’t. CHUCK saw a hit from facing HOUSE, but it has held steady. Meanwhile other shows continue to bleed out. It’s not rocket science.
I compare CHUCK to HEROES only because of 128boys’ fanboy fantasies. In my mind HEROES is death itself for the network. Renewing that dying show is incredibly dumb.
Lets talk about dumb. It’s dumb to talk about HOUSE last night in comparison to whether or not a SUPER BOWL promo worked. All that matters is DID IT WORK?!? You seem to not care about history. The fact that historically the boost is 8% and CHUCK did better seems to not mean anything to you. That is ALL that matters. The promo and 3D gimmick worked.
Is CHUCK bleeding viewers? I don’t see any statistical evidence to make me believe that. Has CHUCK lost viewers due to HOUSE? Yes. If HOUSE switched spots with TSCC would CHUCK likely pull back to its 2.6? I think so. If 24 switched with PRISON BREAK would HEROES jump back to a 4.0? I don’t think so.
You can try and twist the numbers, but it’s a FACT. CHUCK did well. It had its lowest promotional budget of the season and stayed firm. Other NBC shows dropped (thus likely dropping the demo averages for the network). There is solid statistical evidence that CHUCK could pull a 2.6 (well above average on the network) in the right time slot. So yeah, it’s doing good. It has a chance of renewal and being moved to another night.
Hiro24, HEROES is losing money. Total costs on the show are currently around $140M for the complete season. Current income on the show is much less than that. CHUCK on the other hand is in the black. It has some of the most aggressive product placement deals in the industry. Sorry to hit you with the truth.
“Hiro24, HEROES is losing money. Total costs on the show are currently around $140M for the complete season. Current income on the show is much less than that. CHUCK on the other hand is in the black. It has some of the most aggressive product placement deals in the industry. Sorry to hit you with the truth.”
Do you have the total money lost or gained per episode? Didn’t think so. Anyways, the difference between Chuck and Heroes is that Heroes has already been renewed for another season.
128boy, sorry but you don’t seem to understand the term: Bleeding Viewers. That means week in and week out it’s losing viewers at a non-stop constant. That is the case for HEROES, and not for CHUCK. CHUCK took one major hit from going up against HOUSE and otherwise is extremely consistent.
HEROES started off the season with a 5.0 in the demo. It’s now at 2.6.
CHUCK started off the season with a 2.6. It’s now at 2.1.
Which is bleeding viewers?
CHUCK is doing well for NBC not because it had mediocre numbers at the start of the season, but because it has mediocre numbers right now. NBC has seen a huge drop in the demo all around. 30 ROCK isn’t pulling the demo numbers it was earlier. MEDIUM and LAW & ORDER aren’t pulling the numbers they were. CHUCK has dropped but it has been consistent with the rest of the network.
NBC sucks. CHUCK however is one of it’s strongest candidates for possible success next season during another time slot. Plus the show is profitable.
This is a business.
RJ, actually I do. I’m not going to put that up on here.
Also, no HEROES has still yet to be renewed. No contract has been done yet. All that was said was they plan on bringing it back. In fact it has already been decided it WILL NOT BE BACK NEXT FALL. It’s coming back in the Winter or Spring with a smaller than normal episode order. That order is just going to get smaller and smaller.
From a business standpoint, I think it’s a bad choice. There is no evidence the show could rebound. Bryan Fuller is even trying hard to get out and do a show on the CW based on STAR TREK.
NICK C:
“Also, no HEROES has still yet to be renewed. No contract has been done yet. All that was said was they plan on bringing it back. In fact it has already been decided it WILL NOT BE BACK NEXT FALL. It’s coming back in the Winter or Spring with a smaller than normal episode order. That order is just going to get smaller and smaller.”
Whatever, its coming back. The order will be for 18-20 episodes. You also failed to mention that Chuck had a season high (3.0 demo) the day after the Super Bowl. Now its back to a 2.1 demo. Obviously people don’t like the show that watched it.
NICK C:
“RJ, actually I do. I’m not going to put that up on here. ”
I also have the data that Dollhouse, Do Not Disturb, and 13 Fear is Real are all coming back, but I’m not posting that.
So ‘Heroes’ is coming back midseason just like Lost and 24?
Guys stop making excusses about why chuck and heroes got low numbers, its because their just not good shows. If the shows were good then more people would watch them, thats pretty much the reason why some shows stay and some go, period.
Nick C.,
You are quite entertaining sir, but your ability to spin numbers is beyond anything I’ve ever seen except for…
Wait, wait, wait… you don’t happen to write weekly press releases for nbc do you? Nevermind…
Anyway, your “definition” of bleeding viewers does not even fit Heroes because there are certain weeks where it is up a tad from the week before, thus destroying your “losing viewers on a week in week out non-stop constant” clause. (Side note: what is a “non-stop constant”? I’m fairly sure those words put together don’t mean anything. Sounds technical, though.)
Nice try at attempting to spin numbers and definitions to fit your exact example.
Do you spend a lot of time on Marc Berman’s website?
@Jake
Using your logic, The Bachelor is a better show than Chuck, or 30 Rock, or random other assorted critical darlings. Numbers don’t make a show “good” or “bad”, that’s pretty subjective. Just because people don’t watch a show doesn’t mean it’s not good. Using your logic, Beverly Hills Chihuahua was a good movie, simply because a lot of people went to see it.
“This is a business.”
And here I thought it was a game to try and keep fan favorites like Dollhouse and Chuck on the air.
chuck reminds me of jim from the office
128boy, you’re right HEROES occasionally appears like the bleeding has stopped. It stays put or goes up then it drops right back down again. Sure, it has hiccups. That is nothing like CHUCK and you can’t really say you don’t understand that.
HEROES was a 5.0, now a 2.6 and it wasn’t instant. It has slowly eroded to the 2.6 number. CHUCK started at 2.6 and now is at 2.1, the drop was practically instant when HOUSE and DWTS aired opposite it.
Are you really so obtuse that you can’t see the difference?
RJ, actually right now HEROES will be lucky to get 13 episodes. If it was getting the 18 or 20 like originally stated, it would have been done and announced by now. The fact is they haven’t made an offer yet officially. So there is no renewal.
I could post the deficits for HEROES because I have seen them. I haven’t seen data on CHUCK though. I just know CHUCK is in the black, and HEROES is very much in the red, and DVD won’t save it.
HEROES will be back with probably a 50% budget cut and a shorter episode order. That or it won’t be brought back at all. That is still a possibility.
Nick C, though I agree with you, Heroes doesn’t even deserve the 13 eps it will probably get, I don’t think NBC’s waiting to announce because they haven’t decided yet. I think they’re just waiting until May.
Nick C.,
Again you ignore facts to spin this in your favor.
The only difference between Chuck and Heroes is that Heroes has been dropping all season, and Chuck has only been dropping since February. So yeah if you compare season to date erosion Heroes looks worse… however that doesn’t mean that Chuck hasn’t dropped too…and it HAS.
Like I said, if you compare both of their performances since February, the amount of drop is a lot closer than if you look at all season long.
Not as much and not for as long. But Chuck has most certainly dropped.
Wishing it’s not true doesn’t make it so.
I just can’t believe that Chuck can’t find more of an audience than this. On the surface it has the perfect mix to be hit. The ongoing storyline isn’t too complicated to ruin enjoyment if you jump in and out of episodes, but is interesting enough to satisfy a person like me, who enjoyed the ongoing backstory of other shows. I think it SHOULD have a lot of appeal to all age groups. It works on a couple of levels, you have the Chuck/Sarah angle, the comedy angle and the spy angle. Normally one might say it is too unfocused and does not do any one particularly well (thus diluting the product), but to me Chuck does a good job with all three.
I guess someone could get tired of the Chuck/Sarah thing continually stopping and starting.
But what is it? Do people see it as too repetitive? Too quirky? Maybe they think it is more comic booky than it really is? I am at a loss. With shows I have liked in the past that are low rated, I can see why they might not get super high ratings…but this one seems like a sure thing (to at least be a marginal hit).
Nick more strawman – and its really quite boring now.
Once again you’re argument is that Chuck is doing well because Heroes is doing badly, whilst my argument is that Chuck is doing badly because Chuck is doing badly. The only way you’re able to spin Chuck’s numbers into anything close to a positive is by pointing at the sinking ship and saying ‘well at least it isn’t that’ as if somehow that makes Chuck’s performance better. It doesn’t.
The fact that Chuck is maintaining a number below what Heroes is scoring doesn’t make its performance any better. A 2.1 is still a 2.1 whether you maintain it for every episode you air or not and under no circumstance is scoring a 2.1 a cause for celebration or a pat on the back. As I said previously this is the kind of backwards logic (that was openly laughed at) that brought about the ‘consistency metre’ at another site, which was used to proclaim success for Dollhouse. Consistently scoring low numbers isn’t a good thing, its consistently doing a bad thing.
Obviously your retort for this will be what its been for half of this argument – but at least its not Heroes, which is irrational to the nth degree because I’m not claiming that Heroes is in a better position (beyond the fact that NBC have committed publicly to picking it up, which they haven’t done for Chuck). The people on the ship that’s sunk don’t point at a ship that’s sinking to make themselves feel better. It makes no sense.
More to the point you’re argument becomes even more muddled and confused because you can’t decide why it is that Chuck did well. Originally it did well because it maintained a 2.1 up against the NCAA. Then when it was pointed out that House grew against the NCAA your point changed to – well that doesn’t matter, the performance of another show in its timeslot on another network doesn’t matter and besides the majority of the country weren’t watching the NCAA when House was on the air. You can’t have this both ways Nick, you can’t argue that the majority of the country weren’t watching NCAA when Chuck was on the air but at the same time say it did well to hold up against NCAA. It doesn’t make sense. But that doesn’t matter now because your point has changed again. Now Chuck did well because Heroes did badly.
On the plus side I’m pleased to discover that Life is doing well because that’s maintained a consistent number below Heroes and apparently that’s a sign of success on NBC. Go Life! And now the deal to bring FNL back makes perfect sense, sure the numbers are low but they’ve been consistently low!
And once again on the subject of the ‘magical all conquering Super Bowl increase’ spin the number percentage wise all you want I really don’t care because when you look at the real numbers Chuck increase by four tenths in the demo. FOUR TENTHS. That’s that magical all powerful didn’t it do well Super Bowl increase you’re touting. House meanwhile increased House meanwhile increased by five tenths from half hour to half hour. Chuck’s Super Bowl increase is only impressive in percentage form because the numbers were so low to begin with and however you try and spin it I’m never going to jump aboard the ‘wow wasn’t that four tenths increase incredible’ train.
Also here’s something to look into – the traditional 8% rise for Super Bowl promotion, what kind of demo points has that translated to in the past? More or less than four tenths.
Oh and Nick please don’t tell me to get some ‘reading comprehension skills’ when you’ve consistently failed to address any of the points I’ve actually brought up, such as Chuck’s all conquering Super Bowl increase actually being four tenths. And don’t assume that because someone disagrees with you and points out the complete inconsistency of everything you’ve said here they just can’t comprehend the point you’re making. Not that I’m surprised you’d make it, its just more of the ‘I’ve always been proved right’, ‘you’re irrational’, ‘you have no understanding of the business’ and ‘you’re blind’ defences. Rather than actually discussing the numbers you just fire off insults.
I seem to have entered in the middle of “Chuck Wars”
this is really depressing now guys you need yo stop it, your really just attacking each other and using one-up-manship rather than really having any meaningfull discussion about the show.
Besides this is all conjecture because no one really seems to know anything anyone else doesn’t (although Nick C claims he does)
It *is* clear Alex has some sort of vendetta against Chuck and I’m not sure why that is mate?
This is why Robert closed the comments on the Fedak story you know, because of *this* nonsense.
I can already tell you what Chuck’s next episode will be like. Chuck flashes on something, they stop it. Since I hate predictablility in shows this is a major turn-off.
If they kill a major character within 15 minutes without all the drama, just bang, then it would have my attention.
@ Tony, you mean like TSCC did hmmmmm? *rolls eyes*
Since I obviously have a vendetta against the show let me throw out these random stats for you.
Since returning in February Chuck has lost 30% of its 18-49. Heroes (as of this weeks numbers) has lost 33% of its 18-49 if however the show returns to where it was last week (and I’m not saying it will) the loss is 21% of its 18-49. Meanwhile the big 15% increase Nick touts coming out of the Super Bowl was followed by a 27% drop in Chuck’s 18-49 for the next episode.
But no Chuck is obviously doing well.
My ‘vendetta’ against the show amounts to the fact that I disagree that a show pulling 2.1 on a major network should be renewed and I find the spin that goes into renewing a 2.1 show slightly ridiculous. Any show getting Chuck’s numbers would get the same reaction from me.
Alex I’m not going to answer that since you are obviously a troll, and everybody should just ignore your flaming.
So what if Chuck gets a 0.1 or gets cancelled, does it really affect your life *that* much.
What i cant understand is why heroes still is going down in the ratings. This volume have really been great…. But I am still hoping for the best. Thanks Nielsen btw.
Great arguing tag team donnybrook again. My critical judgment on Castle is being reflected in the data. I’m about to check out the Renew/Cancel index on Castle; ought to be another good test for the index.
What happened to Heroes? I thought it was one of NBC’s breakout shows? How they mess this one up?
Basically, what’s happening between Alex and Nick here is that: Nick has a relative view on success, while Alex has an absolute view on success.
Nick professes that Chuck is better than Heroes because it isn’t bleeding as much and has been consistent, and Alex says that Chuck hasn’t been bleeding as much but it has been mediocre at best.
Bottom line, I’m inclined to agree with Alex’s argument, mostly because the bottom line in ratings is still important. Consistently drawing a low rating doesn’t absolve the show from actually having that low rating and suffering the consequences that any other show with consistently low ratings would have.
the128boy, what you say about heros and chuck being the same is NOT TRUE Chuck has better number and won’t be dropped. Heros will have 1/2 a season! I have to agree with nick s. Chuck did well compared to the ncaa finals in the west coast! I was great and they will survive! we arent wishing, we know!