What a week for Garret Dillahunt! Two season finales that are almost certainly series finales. First, on Life in his role of Roman Nevikov and tonight on Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles where he’s played the role of Cromartie and John Henry. I wish it was as easy to pull stats for television as baseball because if it were I could find out easily whether any actors have ever starred in two series finales in one week before.
I don’t really know or care whether some sites have legitimate “Terminator cancellation confirmation” (or for that matter, legitimate copies of finale scripts) or whether they were scams. We’ll find out on the script tonight. As for the show being canceled, sources are not required, the show will absolutely not be renewed. That hasn’t really been in doubt since October.
TV is actually a business that is run by the numbers! Sure, we’re biased because we’re TVbytheNumbers, but like it or not, the ratings do matter. I get it, some people don’t like that. But that’s like not liking that the sun rises in the east instead of the west. There’s just not much to be done about it.
TSCC’s fate was sealed even before it moved to Fridays, and if anyone thought Friday was really going to help its prospects for next year, I don’t understand why. But hey, it enabled FOX to air all the episodes, and the fans ought to be happy about that.
I believe FOX really did want to give Fridays a try to see what happened. But what happened wasn’t good – it hasn’t been good for Dollhouse either. Let me explain. Sure, the expectations are LESS on Fridays. Those shows didn’t need to perform as well as House and Hell’s Kitchen, Fringe or Bones. There is no doubt about that. But unfortunately, for fans of TSCC and Dollhouse, CBS has set the bar for Friday night expectations for new airings of scripted dramas. Currently that bar is set (in its last new episode) at a 2.6 rating with adults 18-49 for Ghost Whisperer and a 1.9 rating for Flashpoint.
FOX may have been very OK with TSCC pulling even 75% of what Ghost Whisperer does. Unfortunately it’s been pulling 50%-60%. While expectations were lower, they were not that much lower.
Dollhouse faces similar challenges. It’s currently doing about 78% of what Flashpoint does, but since Flashpoint only performs at ~73% of Ghost Whisperer, the expectations for Dollhouse versus Flashpoint were probably that it do at least 85%-90% as well. And unfortunately it’s doing a little less than 80%.
Sure, it’s possible Dollhouse could turn things around in its last four episodes, but that’s not very likely. And again, while FOX’s expectations for scripted shows are indeed lower on Friday, there can be no doubt that both shows are underperforming FOX’s hopes.
If DVD sales are high for Dollhouse, anything is possible. If the Terminator movie winds up being a blockbuster that leads to massive sales of season one and season two DVD sets of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, could it be resurrected? Sure. But I don’t know how that is going to shake out. What I am certain of, however, is that when FOX announces its lineups for the 2009-2010 on May 18 none of that, nor online viewing is going to matter. Neither show will be announced as being on the 2009-2010 lineup.
Nope, I don’t have any inside skinny, haven’t seen an official press release and don’t really care whether the sets have been torn down or left up. I just care about what makes sense based on the numbers, and in the case of TSCC, the numbers aren’t remotely good enough to even be considered a bubble show. There’s a much better case for bubble-dom for Dollhouse, but relative to even Flashpoint, not a very good case for it, really.
I’m looking forward to tonight’s finale of TSCC. I hope it’s great. The good news is that some day, Summer Glau will be back. Just not on that show.
While TVbytheNumbers.com has an incredible track record for predicting series success and failure, its equations are not yet applicable for the future of TV… which involves mostly data not released by the studios. TSCC is caught between the past and future systems. TSCC is an international mega success, enjoys super DVD sales, huge iTUNES, paid downloads and streaming. Stop predicting failure and start figuring out how to adjust your formulas to access and reflect this information and TVbytheNumbers will be the 21st century Nielsen!
Summer Glau will be back??
where?
I’m not as hopeful (delusional?) as HopeCA is but at the same time I think TSCC might have one saving grace. If Terminator Salvation comes out and is a box office blow out I can’t imagine the Fox network not giving it a limited mid-season pick up.
I mean, there’s no reason for them to necessarily cancel it. The show’s owned by the same parent company so they don’t need to strike the sets necessarily. They can release the cast and still keep them under contract “in case of a pickup”
Again, I think it’s probably gone for good but if you want to pin your hope on something I’d say the movie is your best bet
at this point it’s almost a given that Terminator: Salvation will be a massive hit…i would just like to point out the irony that were this movie released in conjunction with the show, say to build up some sort of momentum in an attempt to bring the show back….no one would be able to stay home and actually watch b/c of the fact that it airs on a friday!
now i know there’s plenty of excuses floating around saying that huge new hit movie ‘A’ is what is ruining fox’s friday nights, and while it most certainly is mainly excuses, there must be a small grain of truth to that…and this scenario makes it glaringly obvious (yes i am ignoring that releasing a summer “tentpole” movie does not overlap with the tv season, and yes i am looking past the fact that TSCC was a dud midweek as well)
irony…
I hear the rumble of fanboys in the not so distant future
Tom, it won’t matter how well Salvation does at the box office unless that leads to increased buying of TSCC DVDs. If it does, WB might offer it to FOX so cheaply that FOX won’t care if it gets a 1.3 rating. There’s no chance FOX will even nibble otherwise, and there’s no chance WB will steeply discount it unless Salvation has meaning for TSCC’s DVDs.
I’m pretty sure that’s how it would have to play out. And it’s merely a guess, but my guess is Salvation won’t be particularly meaningful to DVD sales of TSCC.
“where he’s played the role of Cromartie and John Henry”
Don’t forget Laszlo, star of Beast Wizard VII.
You’re just loving to be the bringer of bad news don’t you…
You have no proof, and your equations are flawed 100%.
You compare TSCC to shows that are not on Fridays, to shows that are not on the same time slot, to shows that are not on the same network, and to shows that do not even have the same audience demographics.
What you’re doing is exactly like me, saying, “Oh yes, a human mission to Saturn would not be difficult, since my formulas for going to the moon held up. It will only take a little longer that’s all.”
WB approved T4 and T5, because it predicts great success. This is also more evidence that Fox and WB would have to be stupid not to approve of a Season 3. Worse, Fox would have to be absolutely brain dead to cancel TSCC, DAYS BEFORE Terminator 4 release. Severely damaging WB-Fox relations and giving Journalists the opportunity to write front-page headline stories about how TSCC was canceled days before T4 release. Even “Silently announcing next schedule” will not save Fox from the backlash.
TSCC’s numbers are adequate, they would be the same for any other show if it lived through the same scheduling problems. Dollhouse being so hyped up and having an almost similar fate to TSCC, is just more evidence that Fridays are not made for scifi.
You cannot give me a single statistic that proves that if any other show lived through the same schedules, it would have performed better than TSCC. You act like as if, TSCC produces horrible episodes, and thus people tune out… Yet, every person I meet (and I meet many people) who has watched TSCC , more than one episode, has loved the series and praised it for its quality. Are they all insane? Are they all wrong?
TV is a NUMBERS game… but you use NUMBERS IN ABSOLUTE, rather than NUMBERS IN RELATIVE to each circumstance.
Execute: sorry, but I don’t love being the harbinger of doom, and TSCC’s numbers are awful relative to *any* circumstance for a scripted show on broadcast television. We don’t need proof. Shows with ratings like TSCC are never renewed. If it had started out on cable, things might be different. But, it didn’t.
Btw, other than Average + sum… you guys don’t seem to know anything else about statistics… You make no graphs… you don’t use statistic functions, ever heard of distributions? Variance? Standard deviation? Normal distribution? Gamma distribution? Anything?
we have heard of all those things. We do have some charts and we did look at distributions and deviations and found that they didn’t seem to matter in renewal analysis and that simple averages tell the tale. If you want to start a site that does all that, have at it! We’ll definitely take a look.
By the way, have you studied these graphs? Have you compared graphs with other shows? This is the kind of information, that would get your site lots of hits. Instead of just constant “Doll house is dead, TSCC is dead” posts.
http://image.wetpaint.com/image/1/SGSFMQdi9tPqfOvZpV2eHw93073/GW705H424
http://image.wetpaint.com/image/1/-KJcp0nji6v3k3BwaUnhEg33447/GW483H291
I’m sure you’ll just say “it’s still horrible bla bla bla”… That’s great you’re giving your opinion, but no one cares about negative opinion. Positive opinion is always in demand.
can’t believe life is lifeless … T.T. that final episode was so good…. tscc is gonna end it with sarah talking to a priest… sounds dull… T.T.
Execute99 says:
“Btw, other than Average + sum… you guys don’t seem to know anything else about statistics… You make no graphs… you don’t use statistic functions, ever heard of distributions? Variance? Standard deviation? Normal distribution? Gamma distribution? Anything?”
Kurtosis? WHERE’S THE DAMN KURTOSIS?
This site is getting really cheap. Anything for another hit right? You’ve posted the same story about a billion times now. Maybe you should follow Hibberd’s lead when he said he’d stop posting TSCC stories back in February.
Jesus Christ, man, don’t scare me like that!! When I saw the title I though you had an official cancellation announcement. That was low. No matter how sure you are, don’t use a title like that unless you have something official!!
Execute: It’s not a negative opinion or a positive opinion, it is analysis (that you don’t like) based on numbers (that you don’t like). Since the simplicity of the analysis hasn’t impacted the accuracy of it for any one hour scripted dramas, we’re not prone to move off the approach we use. So far as I know, we have no special powers that force people to read content they don’t want to read (Bill might, but if he does he hasn’t shared his evil plot with me).
When the 18-49 averages are vastly lower than average (and vastly lower than other scripted dramas on Fridays) the fate is bad. That’s just the way it is. You seem to have trouble accepting that. I love the show LIFE on NBC (and definitely enjoyed it more than TSCC), but feel no differently about its fate, no matter how the numbers are crunched. I *wish* the numbers were different, but that wish doesn’t change how I look at Life’s numbers. It seems like your wishes for TSCC do influence how you look at the numbers. And, it’s a free country! Have at it.
Boris – ha. I don’t see a future where the show statuses in the renew or cancel indexes are changed to things like “mesokurtotic”, but you never know…
How weird is it that people remember that TSCC has had time slot adjustments, but yet forget that it was pulling in horrible numbers on crucial nights (Mondays). They pulled it from Mondays for the same reason FOX swallowed Drive after 4(ish) episodes: It was killing the ratings for the show’s lead-out.
However, I do see how the rabid fanboys would hate this article. It kind of alludes to annoucing the show’s cancelation without it having actually been cancelled.
Regardless, this show’s ratings have been a plague to every show around it. And I’m not even being bias AGAINST the show. I own and enjoyed Season One. It had mad potential. Yet it seems like the writers didn’t know where to take it. The plot (until recently) has BARELY MOVED. Are THEY waiting to see how the movie goes? We spent a WHOLE EPISODE at a sleep clinic, and her dreams were even boring! I wouldn’t even call those nightmares. Season Two hasn’t even found a focus. Even Summer has had less to do with the show.
So to tvbythenumbers: I agree with your article, while I don’t agree with the misleading caption (as if you were announcing it’s been officially cancelled).
To the fanboys (and remember, I liked the show at the beginning): You have to step back and look at this objectively. Once this show’s gone, you should check out Supernatural.
Robert Seidman says:
“Boris – ha. I don’t see a future where the show statuses in the renew or cancel indexes are changed to things like ‘mesokurtotic’, but you never know…”
While I was mostly animated by bewilderment over the mention of “the Gamma distribution,” I suppose one could well imagine the possible utility of data visualization in analyzing fine-grained Nielsen data. Consider this, but (loosely) with “flights” being viewers and airports being programs:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/5a6p58
nkinsey, you do know that the clinic part was the dream and the truck part was real, right? It’s not clear from your message that you understood this. That said, yeah, those “crazy Sarah” episodes didn’t do the show any favors. It’s gotten a lot better after those eps. But it might be too little, too late. Though, I won’t accept anything but an official cancellation statement. Or, if there’s no statement (a very likely scenario), Fox announcing a TSCC-less schedule at the Upfronts will do. But nothing else.
Just take it as a friendly suggestion. Say goodbye while you can. Once the cancellation becomes official, you won’t have a chance.
I imagine Execute99 is making a similar face to the one in her icon.
you said the same thing about life, without offical cancellation, wheres the backlash from that?
You compare TSCC to shows that are not on Fridays, to shows that are not on the same time slot, to shows that are not on the same network, and to shows that do not even have the same audience demographics.
tell me, name one other show that fits your criteria?
oh thats right… no shows do
I’ll miss the show but the makers only have themself’s to blame for the ratings when they decided to waste too many episodes on Sarah Connor the psycho analyst sessions.
Still the last few episodes have been great so I’ll enjoy tonight.
Actually, Fox should take into account that TSSC is third in its timeslot in demo, beating howdie. If the live+7 numbers matters (which it should), I’m sure in demo it is the second after GW. Actually i donot know about wife swap’s dvr numbers but in last two weeks TSSC’s numbers should be higher in total.. and previous fox shows in same timeslot have same live demo and worse live+7 numbers…and last couple of TSSC episodes have more total viewers than dollhouse in live (but less in demo)…
are you listening to yourself, hagi? it beat howie. BIG ACHIEVEMENT
and… nobody cares about total viewers, so dollhouse still beats TSCC
The show was performing badly on Monday, too, even when House and DWTS didn’t air opposite it. IMO, Fox has done pretty well by it, giving it a second season and the back nine even when ratings were awful, and not enough viewers are interested. I loved the pilot and wanted SCC to succeed but the massive audience fall-off has doomed it.
The guys just want to bait you just like they did with the Chuck fans, the Moonlight fans, the Jericho fans, the Dollhouse fans. Don’t give them the extra hits.
I’m not here to argue about the content of the article but I do agree the title is a low move. I’m almost sure Mr. Seidman enjoys scaring fans this way, just for the kicks. After all, this isn’t the first time. This or, you know, he’s so full of himself he expects the fans to accept his prediction as fact and literally say goodbye to the show without even waiting for official cancelation.
I’m amazed people are still genuinaly trying to make a case for TSCC bring brought back. It would be akin to a Giancarlo Fisichella fan being convinced he has a great shot at winning the next Grand Prix. It is possible to be a fan of somebody or something and still be rational about its chances!………….isn’t it?
But hey if Fox are dumb enough to bring it back as a TSCC fan ill be delighted, but it would be quicker to lose money by burning it.
Tony says:
“The guys just want to bait you just like they did with the Chuck fans, the Moonlight fans, the Jericho fans, the Dollhouse fans.”
I resent Jericho’s being left third on this list, not to mention in the immediate proximity of Dollhouse.
Im baffled why people are predicting that Terminator Salvation will be one of the biggest summer blockbusters yet very few are watching the Terminator the series. The series is good and a nice center piece that will ultimetly bridge Terminator 3 and 4. I do agree that Fox will cxl the show. I will miss it.
chuck
(boris,tony)why do you guys come here if you hate this site so much??
I’m sure Fox make more profits by airing TSSC than previous shows like smarter than something… Because even if they have same demo numbers, advertisers’ prefer TSSC’s audience…
TVBTN should change its name to BaitTheGeeksAndRatingsInfoToo.com.
Gusar: Yea, I did know the dream/truck twist, I just wasn’t amused. By the time you realized what was going on, I just didn’t really care. And yeah, the last few eps have started to flow, but it shouldn’t have taken 15 episodes to get a-movin’ !!
Lisa: You are right about FOX giving it a chance. It’s like back in the day with Arrested Development. People love to bitch and moan about FOX axing the show, but they gave it TWO more seasons than it deserved, ratings-wise. If a show isn’t being watched by enough people, why is it the network’s fault when they’ve kept it around?
djm says:
“(boris,tony)why do you guys come here if you hate this site so much??”
Beg pardon?
entertainmenttodayandbeyond said: The series is good and a nice center piece that will ultimetly bridge Terminator 3 and 4. I do agree that Fox will cxl the show. I will miss it.
TSCC’s continuity ignores T3.
hagi: sorry, but you are wrong. FOX made more money (or more importantly saved more money) with Fifth Grader. That show did well for FOX on Friday (for Friday’s standards). Even though the WB gave TSCC to FOX for cheap, reality/game shows are WAY more cost-effective, and can often attract more advertisers if their numbers are right. And I don’t seem to recall any article stating that TSCC is tops with the $100K annual income crowd, anyways.
Boris, other than TSCC, Jericho is the only of those shows that I ever actually predicted would be canceled. Moonlight was on the bubble right to the end and we said it could go either way. I think the same is true of Chuck also (but only because of the Leno move, otherwise I’d be sure it would be renewed).
And to DJM’s point above – I used the EXACT same headline with LIFE with zero backlash just two days ago!
When a show actually gets canceled we use headlines like “TNT cancels TRUST ME”.
It’s one thing to wish more people watched certain shows. Its another to think the networks should keep airing those shows.
Hagi, reality shows are a lot cheaper than TSCC.
entertainmenttodayandbeyond ,the problem is that TSCC is nothing like what people expect from the Terminator franchise, as Richard Steven Hack will tell you. Repeatedly.
“I’m sure Fox make more profits by airing TSSC than previous shows like smarter than something… Because even if they have same demo numbers, advertisers’ prefer TSSC’s audience…”
Aren’t demos what the advertisers care about?
so if they have the same demo numbers.. they should have the same appeal?!
srry boris… i just meant tony =X
I do it to the Chuck fans so I guess I should do it to the Terminator fans as well…
“TSCC is an international mega success, enjoys super DVD sales, huge iTUNES, paid downloads and streaming.”
TSCC is not by any definition enjoyed ‘international mega success’. I don’t know who told you that but they’re lying to you. If you want to see a show that did (and to some extent still does) enjoy ‘international mega success’ then look at Heroes. The first season in particular was genuinely massively successful internationally. Terminator is, at best a moderate success internationally.
The show does not enjoy super DVD sales. Stats on this have been posted previously.
Its important to put the ‘huge’ iTunes and paid streaming into context – its tiny and isn’t anywhere near enough to save the show. In five years time we might possibly be in a situation where the networks have to start looking more and more at online profits but we’re not there yet because there simply isn’t enough money it, especially not for a show that’s performing and has performed as badly as TSCC has.
“I mean, there’s no reason for them to necessarily cancel it. The show’s owned by the same parent company so they don’t need to strike the sets necessarily. They can release the cast and still keep them under contract “in case of a pickup””
There are many, many reasons to cancel the show.
As it is though I’m slightly confused on what it is you’re trying to say – it reads like you’re suggesting that Fox own TSCC and that’s not the case. They don’t Warner Brothers do. And for the record there’s ever reason for WB to strike the sets if Fox don’t immediately pick the show, primarily that they take up space. If the show doesn’t have any episode orders then WB will strike the sets and replace them with sets for shows they can or already have sold. On top of this I’m not sure where the TSCC sets are located but in theory if its not a WB owned soundstage but a rented one then keeping the sets up would be costing WB money.
“WB approved T4 and T5, because it predicts great success. This is also more evidence that Fox and WB would have to be stupid not to approve of a Season 3.”
This is incredibly flawed logic.
Firstly Warner Brothers have not green lit Terminator 5 and 6, Halcyon the production company that owns the rights to the Terminator franchise (WB acts as a distributor) has given provisional script orders for a fifth and sixth movie. In the event that Salvation flops those sequels will disappear very quickly. Away from that sequels for the movies have been ordered based on the past success of the Terminator franchise in theatres and the commitment of the films leading man (Christian Bale) to make more. TSCC does not have a tried and tested lead man like Bale nor has it proven to be a successful television franchise despite the previous success of the movies.
You don’t green light a third season of a failed series because movie sequels have been planned, especially not when you’re in no way affiliated with said movies.
“TSCC’s numbers are adequate, they would be the same for any other show if it lived through the same scheduling problems.”
No they’re not.
And the scheduling has nothing to do with it. The show was bombing before it moved to Friday’s. And the show was also bombing before it came back for a second season.
“By the way, have you studied these graphs? Have you compared graphs with other shows?”
I’m not entirely sure what it is you’re trying to prove with those graphs. Have you looked at them yourself? Have you seen how both start really high and then ends really low? I guess what I’m saying here is, I need you to explain why those graphs are a good thing for TSCC can I’m clearly missing the point.
“However, I do see how the rabid fanboys would hate this article. It kind of alludes to annoucing the show’s cancelation without it having actually been cancelled.”
A similar article with almost the exact same title was made for Life on Wednesday. I can’t remember any rabid fans being outraged that it read like an official cancellation post. Maybe Life fans are just more zen? Or less delusional about the fate of their show?
“Actually, Fox should take into account that TSSC is third in its timeslot in demo, beating howdie. If the live+7 numbers matters (which it should), I’m sure in demo it is the second after GW. Actually i donot know about wife swap’s dvr numbers but in last two weeks TSSC’s numbers should be higher in total.. and previous fox shows in same timeslot have same live demo and worse live+7 numbers…and last couple of TSSC episodes have more total viewers than dollhouse in live (but less in demo)…”
All meaningless. Even with the DVR increases TSCC numbers are bad.
Also beating Howie Do It is not something to jump for joy about. I’m pretty sure you could show a cat sat in a box for an hour and it would beat Howie Do It in the ratings. Also worth pointing out that beating Dollhouse in the ultimately unimportant total viewers is meaningless. And beating the sinking ship that has been Dollhouse is ultimately meaningless anyway because lets face it Dollhouse isn’t doing well either.
The truth of the situation is that however you slice it TSCC has done badly in the ratings. That doesn’t mean the shows horrible but it does mean that not enough people are watching it. A 1.3 or a 1.4 (whatever it got last week) just isn’t enough for a scripted drama Friday night or not and when it was moved off Monday night’s it was pulling a 1.9 (I think) which is less than Dollhouse scored debuting on a Friday. That’s not good. At all.
Terminator may very well be the greatest show on television but that’s not enough to save it. If people aren’t watching then the quality doesn’t really matter. Unless DirecTV is willing to splash some cash.
“I’m sure Fox make more profits by airing TSSC than previous shows like smarter than something… Because even if they have same demo numbers, advertisers’ prefer TSSC’s audience…”
That’s a lovely theory but doesn’t factor in the relative cost difference between the two shows.
Even at the rumoured discounted rate Fox got the back nine for this second season of TSCC it will still be more expensive than Don’t For Get The Lyrics or Are You Smarter… The difference in the demos would have to be much bigger for the profit margins to be bigger. And before anyone makes the DVD argument Fox doesn’t get anything from the DVD sales. And before anyone says DVD sales mean WB can offer it cheaper, I suspect they already went pretty damn cheap with the back nine, I’m not sure how much cheaper they can go without running the show at a loss and then it makes absolutely no sense for them to keep making it.
Hi All TSCC fans
I see lots of emotions here, I fell the same. Hope and pray we get it back.
BTW I saw Karmati on Last house on the Left, did not know he was in it, but liked his acting in it, he did well, his charactor was terrible, but hisacting was great.
Dear FOX, please let us live this show furher.
Thanks
I hope TSCC and Dollhouse GET RENEWED!!!
Waaahh. I’m so sad Terminator is ending. Tonight’s episode was utterly fantastic!
THE LAST 10 MINUTES WAS THE F-ING SHIT. NOW CAN WE START THE SAVE TERMINATOR CAMPAIGN?
Oh God, just, I don’t even want the show to come back after what just happened. Friedman just completely threw everything that actually worked about the show right out the damned window, with no way of putting the genie back in the bottle.
Wasn’t this show doomed from the moment they decided not to dovetail its storylines with the movie franchise?
Sure its bound to benefit from any ‘Terminator’ hype, but I think I read that McG the director of the new film says that his film will not acknowledge the events of T:TSCC… which is a bummer, since I really enjoyed this show despite agreeing with a lot of the negative criticism (broody, angsty, not enough action, etc).
But after this season finale with so many mind-fucking questions left, I definitely would invest in this ‘alternate time line’ of the Conners’ life.
Hrm. Not saying these guys are wrong, but didn’t they say this show was going to get canceled before the season 1 finale?
Once again, Robert Seidman proves that instead of being a responsible reporter, he’ll take the low road and do whatever he can to bash TSCC to death, just to get hits on the site. It’s seriously downright sickening.
You know what; yea, I’m well aware that the future does not look bright for the show. It’s something the fans are going to need to deal with and possibly face the cancellation announcement. But to just take a piss over this entire show like you people seem to do, it’s just not right.
It’s cold Robert, it really is. For people who like the show, everytime you post articles like this, it’s like you’re taking a knife and stabbing it into our hearts, time and time again.
Please, try to be a little more respectful.
Robert IS being respectful. What’s not respectful is what Brooke Shields did with Lipstick Jungle, continuing to offer people false hope months after a reasonable person would have concluded the show isn’t coming back.
HOPECA
Hope the show has had poor dvd sales. It fell off the chart (and never returned) without even crossing 100,000 units moved (less then 2 million dollars in sales generated).
While their are shows that do worse, thats not good. Thats not even enough to cover the production cost of a single episode.
With Itunes, and online viewing probably not enough to cover even another episodes production budget (Compared to other shows they might do well, but the dollars generated are still quite small). That leaves international sales.
I know that helped save Supernatrual Not for this season but the last two, this seasons has seen significant ratings growth each week and the only show on thursdays to to do). But there are some significant differences. A much smaller budget and license fee, on a netlet where its performance kept it the 2nd highest performer in total audience. DVD sales twice as high as those that Sarah conner generated. For example the last season on DVD before it fell off the charts had over 180,000 units sold generating over 7 million dollars in sales.
Sarah Conner performs so much significantly worse then the rest of Fox that, it would need colossal overseas performance (and none of the reports I have seen show it that high) to help keep it a float. Its gone, sorry.
How is he not being respectful? He limits his talk about the show to just its performance on a numeric basis. I have loved many a show that is cancelled, but on a numbers basis the show has failed to generate enough viewers to keep it alive, Now if he started to qualify the quality of the show (something that is subjective) then you might have an valid opinion but that hasn’t happened.
@ Quincy: no, and it’s pretty easy to verify; the site *does* have a search function. Robert wrote a post where he was toying with ideas for reasons for Fox to bring the show back (this was before they hit on the 18-49 index), then after they came up with the index, predicted renewal based on that very index showing T:SCC as being one of Fox’s best performers.
This season it has been largely a bottom-basement performer, and so they have predicted it will not be renewed, and for short time at least, seriously thought it would have been yanked; with the numbers it was pulling, there was no reason for Fox not to other than whatever deal they worked out with WB.
“Shows with ratings like TSCC are never renewed.”
Until they are. And when that happens, the thresholds change. NBC and FOX may well be facing a summer of considering whether the old formulae still apply. Given the changing nature of network television, it’s going to be that summer at some point — and probably sooner than later.
To the TV By The Numbers administrators:
I have a hint for you. The problem that people have with your site is not that you say “the numbers suck, cancellation is likely”. The problem is that you say, authoritatively, that the show IS canceled and IS doomed, as if you are trolling the IMDB forums. It’s the childish arrogance, most of all – thumbing your nose at people who dare to have a slight bit of optimism, reveling in your intellectual superiority because you “know” it’s canceled. You make the easy prediction and claim you knew it to be a fact so you can rub it in later.
Reality check: The show has not been officially canceled and you are making an ass out of yourself if you presume otherwise.
Yeah, I know, it’s your site, you can make it a gossip rag if you want, but you are muddying the waters and confusing people into thinking the show is dead and gone. If you have any integrity you should get your act together.
I happen to enjoy both TSSC and Dollhouse immensely – both even a fan has to face facts – neither show is going to makeit – at least not on Fox, maybe thay could sell Dollhouse to another channel – but even that seems unlikely (given the reception by a large portion of female viewers who apparantly assumed it was misogynistic without ever wztching it). TSSC would have had to pull significally more viewers to warrant the costly shows survival.
As for the Movie playing any part in this – that is pure nonsense. T4 only relates to the tv series by name – If they were to make a new series set in the future (as T4 is) then there might have been an iota of validity in that argument (though I can’t see anybody throw more money at that franchise for a tv-show)
Lutherblissett, the changing nature of television doesn’t change the relative landscape. where head-to-head, Ghost Whisperer outperformed TSCC by double among 18-49s the last time it aired a new episode (I doubt it will quite double TSCC tonight, but we’ll see). Yes, things are changing. But if you have show X, even if it’s deeply discounted to a million dollars per episode (and there’s currently no basis for Warner Bros to want to do that next year) and you can put on an unscripted show that costs you $250,000 to $500,000 and gets the same ratings, you will do it. That formula hasn’t changed, and nothing in the formula has changed to where WB would want to offer it to FOX for $500,000.
Nyccine is correct. Last year I considered TSCC a bubble show for renewal, and made a case for renewal. That was done before Bill hatched the Renew/Cancel index which came to the renewal conclusion even more strongly based on season one performance. however, there were only 8 episodes and one of the problems with the renew/cancel index is that unless you’re watching everything week-to-week to see the trends and the rates of the trends…well it won’t always predict correctly. Example, completely by itself as an average 18-49 measure, Bionic Woman would have been renewed. Its average was buoyed by huge numbers for the first couple of episodes. The fall off was swift and steep, which needs to be factored in, especially when there are few episodes to judge from.
It’s a shame it won’t make the cut – especially after the last five minutes of the season (series
) finale. It was so very exciting – but it could almost, ALMOST be an ending of sorts.
But not really.
No spoilers here.
Just another sad fan.
I’ll just have to worry about Chuck some more now, I suppose.
sheesh I just cant see how you guys are all wound up over this when life got the same treatment silently. How bout you guys grow up and come back to reality.
a year from now are you still gonna be saying TSCC WAS NEVER CANCELED!!!! IT COULD COME BACK!!
get a grip people.
honest to god, -if- chuck gets to looking this dire, I hope the fans dont act like this….
Lutherblisset, TSCC is Fox’s WORST rated scripted show.There’s no way to spin that. Usually, the WORST rated scripted show on a network gets cancelled.
I’m about to start downloading tonight’s episode, so I don’t have much to add to Robert’s concise analysis of the situation. So I’ll repeat my usual complaints since that seems to annoy the fans even more than the show’s endng for some reason.
If TSCC’s second season had kept the pace of the first, and the first episode of second season (or the last episode or two), it might have survived. If it had the proper focus and pace for a Terminator franchise spin-off, it might have survived. If it had a showrunner who wasn’t obsessed with his own mortality, it might have survived.
The show had enormous positives going for it, not least of which of course was the Terminator name. Fox put it up against serious competition in season two because Fox trusted the Terminator name would give the show a major shot at surviving Monday night. And it would have if the show had BEEN a proper Terminator franchise spin-off.
The show also had terrific positives in casting – all the actors (with the possible exception of Leven Rambin in season 2) were both terrific and likable (Dekker could use a little improvement in some scenes, but overall was perfectly adequate for the part).
And, as someone above mentioned, Summer Glau, Josh Friedman’s one absolutely brilliant casting decision (although Shirley Manson proved to be a winner despite being a “stunt cast” since she’s never acted before.)
Also in directing (with the exception of the “Three Hundred Yard Cameron Throw” in “Alpine Fields”) – and in special effects, the show was excellent.
In writing, the dialog was mostly sharp and to the point. The only defects in writing were some seriously bad lapses in realism and the pacing of the episodes. Some episodes were paced well, most were paced too slowly.
The primary defect of the writing was the glacier-like pace of the overall story arc. The story development done over the last three episodes could have been done fifteen episodes ago. If the writers can’t come up with anything to do after that, then they weren’t that good. But I suspect that wasn’t the case. The problem was Friedman wanted a slow pace. He believes in it, apparently, for no known good reason – especially when your show is hanging by a ratings thread.
The second major defect of the writing was the emphasis on torturing the characters and damaging them in the name of “character development”. Virtually all the “heroes” with the exceptions of Cromartie and Weaver – the “bad guys” who now apparently are going to turn into the “good guys” – were turned mostly unlikable or otherwise “damaged goods” (specifically Cameron with her out-of-her-control “glitch”).
This was carried to extremes with Sarah’s character, who alternated between being merely incompetent and being certifiable depending on what week you viewed. All the “heroes” were sent on wild goose chases that totally ignored their main mission that they had committed to explicitly in the last episode of season one, without once questioning any of this. As I said all season, “if these people are the saviors of mankind, it’s time to send in the first string.”
Even in the next to the last episode, they’re STILL screwing up!
No show is going to survive with all three of no plot development, no momentum and bad characterization.
As has been stated numerous times on this site:
If your idea of a show being officially cancelled is a press release a la Life On Mars, don’t hold your breath (and please don’t get in a hissy fit because you don’t like a headline saying the weakest show on a network won’t be coming back).
Press releases announcing a network’s failure are few and far between. Life On Mars was the exception to the rule, rather than the norm.
Even at upfronts it’s not like the networks release their new fall schedule and an accompanying “Officially Cancelled” list.
If you want to live in a world where vain hopes reign, go ahead, but let people who are realistic face the facts. This isn’t tvbytheDesperateHopes.com
Yeah, networks rarely give an “official word” in the form of an announcement. Who likes to boast about their failures?
…and lets face it, TSCC was a disappointing failure on numerous levels, from dragging story lines to titanic-like performance in the ratings compared to last season.
Also, given that the show runner knew there was a very real likelihood of the series being canceled this year, I don’t think he chose the best ending either… TSCC is going to end up being ignored much like T3 has been by man fans.
I do hope Summer ends up back on TV in something quickly, though…
I stopped reading this after the first few sentences. I think Terminator might be back for another season, that is if the ratings are high enough.
John T. Folden, perhaps they can incorporate her into Chuck season three
Separately, I just watched the finale of TSCC. I won’t make any commentary on the episode other than to say that “leaked script” (that was subsequently pulled down) was a total fraud. The only things it seems to have gotten right were the bits that were in the video clip montage of the last few episodes that came out a month ago.
@ sliverterror:
“TSCC is Fox’s WORST rated scripted show.There’s no way to spin that. Usually, the WORST rated scripted show on a network gets cancelled.”
Silverterror said:
“that is if the ratings are high enough”
They aren’t. Not even close.
With both TSCC and Dollhouse, Fox was trying to relive the glory days of ‘The X-files’ by having a SciFi (yes, that is EXACTLY how I intended to spell it!) become a monster hit on Friday night. What went wrong?
–not as many people are home on Friday nights watching TV anymore, and many of the ones staying home on Friday nights are on the Internet instead.
–we just spent 8 years of RL living with a government that could have realistically engaged in the conspiracy theories that abounded in the X-files. Nobody has yet to report in RL SkyNet has been invented or that there really is an escort service that can program its girls to be the perfect date for every John.
–even if in RL Skynet has been invented or an escort service has found a way to program its girls to be perfect dates for every John, we just spent 8 years living with a government…etc.,etc. We’re tired.
–honestly, and the PTB of the X-Files have always admitted it, the blind luck of Gillian Anderson getting pregnant while filming their first season forced them to come up with an explanation for her absence. Which meant they had to get super creative. If she’d not gotten pregnant, the X-Files probably could’ve lasted the same amount of time as TSCC.
–The X-Files actually had talented actors to make the audience engage in them (unlike Dollhouse), and writers giving them good stories with a foreign concept to the people working on TSCC: CONTINUITY. However, I do think Summer Glau has a star quality to her that could be used to good effect in the right series.
Sorry, Fox, you can’t repeat history. And sorry, TSCC and Dollhouse fans, you can’t make crap and make it successful, especially in SciFi.
I shouldn’t be bummed out – and this is probably off-topic for a site concerned about numbers and not quality – about a television show, but God, this is depressing. Season 1 might not be high-art, but by God, it *worked*. This episode 40~ish minutes of teasing a return to greatness before sticking the knife the heart.
Here’s to hoping the cast gets into better projects; they all deserve it.
Grr, that should have been “many fans” up above and not “man fans”… Shame we can’t edit our own posts here.
Robert… maybe we could collect all the talent from each canceled show and utilize them as an ensemble cast in one super-duper ratings winner. lol
Why do you guys even try to convince the fans at this point. They’re going to keep grasping for straws until the official announcement, and they’ll they’ll swear off Fox forever and holler about the “injustice”, but you aren’t going to convince them.
Well, just watched TSCC finale… And, numbers or not, this was defenitively a series end. Stop making bubbles, there is no way this could come back.
According to Variety, GW viewership is up 28% from last season, to an average of 11 million viewers per week, and the show has won its 8 p.m. And it won it’s hour every week this season and has hit series highs this season in the most elusive demos for CBS, adults 18-34 (up 20%), women 18-34 (up 26%) and women 18-49 (up 27%). And ratings are expected to go even higher when repeats of “Whisperer” begin running on Sci Fi Channel later on this year.
From this article in Variety:
‘Ghost Whisperer’ beats the odds
CBS fantasy drama proves naysayers wrong
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118001809.html?categoryid=1019&cs=1&query=ghost+whisperer#
Saw the episode and it was great! Sad that TSCC is most likely over. I would like to have seen what happens next.
What ever it’s chances of getting picked up somewhere, this episode of TSCC was not a season or series finale. It was a pilot for a very different kind of show.
Forgive my typos.
I’m actually kind of sad to see Terminator go, I’ve never had a chance to watch it yet but I was always fascinated by Terminator 2 when I watched it as a little kid (I’m 25.) Linda Hamilton burning in fire with her fingers on that fence, that image is burned into my memory.
Oh I didn’t realize you had already posted an article about that Robert, hehe.
No worries, Isabel, besides, I merely had cited/linked to the same Variety story you did. I should’ve probably linked to that in the post above when I mentioned GW.
Wow….the “leaked version” finale was better than the official season finale. Ouch!
I’ve seen the show now.
I agree, the leaked script was better than the one that aired, even if it was still pretty crappy sci-fi.
Robert, the leaked script wasn’t a total fraud – it did get the notion of an HK attack on the Weaver building right, although not in detail. And Weaver did show up at the police station, but not as Cameron. So somebody saw the real script and modified it to be BETTER and leaked that.
Lanie Grace basically told me that this was all done for a client who was trying to shop TSCC around. Doesn’t make a lot of sense, but my guess is someone in WB or Fox was trying something to generate buzz. It reminds me of the episode with the UFO images, the “California Drones”. Somebody on a UFO Web site thought that Fox actually was trying to use that as “viral marketing”. Fox denied it but it was a buzz for a week or so.
Then Lanie pulled the page. My guess is that whoever was behind this – Lanie or her client – got cold feet when the Fox reviewer got burned for reviewing a downloaded copy of the Wolverine movie. Leaking the TSCC script – or even a fake version of it – might have gotten whoever was behind it in legal trouble, so they bailed.
The actual episode tonight wasn’t very good, although there were two nice surprises – Brian Austin Green showing up, and the return of the no-longer-silent Latina! Never expected that!
Tonight’s episode of Dollhouse, however, was very good – almost as good or better than episode 6. Part of that is the major “exposure” (to coin a phrase) that my favorite character, Adelle DeWitt, got tonight. But the rest of the story was very well done, and the fight between Echo and the NSA goon was cool.
Occam’s razor would suggest: “or, it was simply just a fraud.” I don’t trust that site. I mean why would a web site that is part “how to make money on the Internet” morphed into “Sci Fi reviews/spoilers” need like five different personas at that domain name posting comments linking to that blog under different e-mail addresses, all with the same IP address? All those links hit our spam filter from here on out.
But all that said, I agree, the fabricated script seemed more interesting!
I cant believe this show is canceled even after all those low ratings. The brain understands, but the heart can’t accept it
The whole John Henry angle was beyond amazing, big props to the guy who played him and the cast around him.
I will not watch terminator:salvation unless they continue T:TSCC, Come on people stand up and fight against capitalistic corporations!
Why would you punish Halcyon and Warner Bros. for a decision FOX makes?
It’s cheaper for Warner Bros. to lose your $10 than it is for them to spend millions on a show that is unable to pull in enough viewers.
You might well be right, Robert, but I didn’t have any background info on Grace to determine whether she was believable or not. Plus, her arguments in the posts seemed reasonable. It might well have been a fraud on her part, but again I don’t know what the point was. OTOH, I’m not versed in fraudulent Web site promotion, so perhaps that’s why I don’t get the point of making up a story just to pull it a few days later after riling up a handful of fans of a show that’s not being watched by many people anyway.
Is she trying to be a “big fish in a (very) small pond”?
Seems like a lot of work for nothing.
Not that people don’t do that regularly.
Maybe she’ll start posting about Chuck regularly from now on! That should really boost her Alexa ratng!
leaving comments from 5 different e-mail addresses and personas also seems like a lot of work for nothing. But actually, it’s just a teensy bit of work for blog traffic for those who have that in mind.
It’s a shame about Sarah Connor but I would rather dollhouse be saved
Sarah connor has had terrible ratings all season. To be honest, they should have cancelled it after the 13 episodes they ordered. I wanna see how Dollhouse does now that Sarah Connor finishes.
im very sad by the end of TSCC. Such a great show treated like dirt by america. you guys dont deserve good shows.
The show will return there already constructing a website for season 3 best show in years anyone who hates it has no taste
Matt Storer, do you have the website, or is it conveniently still under construction?
I certainly do wish the show will return for another season. The problem today is that networks expect a show to pull over 10 million viewers on average. The reason that no longer works is because we have more channels than we have had ten years ago, causing the viewership to spread overall. Another reason is that we are living in a “I want it now and I want it fast” nation, where we think everything should happen in the speed of light. If we used today’s standards 20 years ago, we would not have the hit shows we enjoyed such as Simpsons, Seinfeld, Fraiser, and many other shows. Terminator may have been slow in mid season, but the series has found its direction, and needs to be given time to grow its audience. This is a series that can find a home in syndication as well, giving hope for the series survival.
The Final Episode was just AWESOME, i liked it a lot and i hope it will get a 3. season be it on Fox or another Network, but the chances for it aren’t good.
If this was the Series finale i can live with it. Sure it ended in a Cliffhanger, but at least none of the Main Characters died and Derek is BACK. Ok Cameron is “dead” but now they got Alison Young.
lol… fight the capitalistic corporations…
Okay… And now what… company’s are gonna make show’s for what reason? Because 10 crazy delusional fans wants it?
Sell everything you got and go live in the woods dude…
Jack, this year’s overall ratings a pretty much ALL LOWER. The standards today are lower than ever.
No one expected TSCC to do 10 millions. Fox a least wanted it to keep monday ratings on friday. Stop complaining. If TSCC did a 5.30 millions viewers with a 2.0-2.2 in the demos, they would have keeped it around.
Nobody can logicly say Fox didn’t try. They gave it a full season after a shit start, they promoted it even after it begins to air on friday. Hell, you got a season 2, and a good finale. A lot of shows would have loved an ending
“Because 10 crazy delusional fans wants it?”
LOL! It’s more than 10 crazy fans!
It was a great episode. Don’t hurt the TSSC because You don’t like…
Tim, who said I didn’t liked it? I loved the show, watched every single episodes, buyed season 1… I’m just being REALISTIC!
how in the hell can they cancel terminator after the final episode…it was one of the best 1 hour long shows ever aired on tv..complete and utter awesome.
too many unanswered questions that need a season 3 to be answered… they cant end a show like that..its torture to the fans…they cant leave us not knowing if camerons alive somewere..or what happens to sarah and john..like bloody hell they cant cancel this show.. its not right!!!!!!
“The show will return there already constructing a website for season 3 best show in years anyone who hates it has no taste”
This may be what Matt Storer is talking about.
http://terminatorwiki.fox.com/page/Terminator:+The+Sarah+Connor+Chronicles+Season+3?t=anon
Summer Glau would be a nice active in Dollhouse xD
Good Job its getting cancelled, trying to make a S3 on the back of that ending would be messy. Only reason I see for them writing it like that is a last desperate pitch to Fox saying look S3 will be the Terminator everyone wanted!
*denial* No! Terminator is doing fantastic and will be renewed!
I’ll miss it, but I’ve come to accept its fate.
Andrea it certainly won’t be the first (or last) time that a show is cancelled on a cliff hanger with a lot of unanswered questions that torture fans. However in the case of Terminator the blame for that should lie with the production team and not Fox. Regardless of whether Fox gave official notice on their intention to cancel the show it should have been fairly obvious to anyone involved in the show that there was at least the possibility that the season finale would have to act as the series finale.
you should watch the movie “Doubt”. such certainty without knowing leads to nothing good.
Dear Fox,
Don’t cancel TSCC!!!! The movie will provide renewed interest and the season finale proved that the series is JUST hitting it’s stride. It’s especially advantageous that season 3 will take place (at least partially) in the future, a world that fans will certainly want to return to after seeing the T4 blockbuster.
Give it a chance! Renew it for 6 episodes or so and THEN make a decision.
All the comments are interesting reading. I agree with many of the comments. I’m sure the execs of TSCC and Life have to evaluate show statistics and make decisions accordingly. I don’t need to. I’m just a fan.
I invest time in these shows. I enjoy the characters and storyline. I enjoy the context of TSCC as it relates to our future possibilities. Both shows are interesting even if they have a few episodes that are mediocre or ambiguous. I thoroughly enjoyed BSG and didn’t miss an episode but even so, there was an entire season storyline I could barely tolerate. Some episodes I thought were a silly diversion. Overall, BSG was a fascinating and brilliant body of work. In my opinion, Star Trek NG had a horrible first season but within a few years it was one of my favorite shows. Sometimes it takes time for a show to develop. For everything to gel.
TSCC and Life, in my opinion, are far superior to most shows on TV today for a variety of reasons. What I grow weary of is the lack of support to allow a show to hit its stride. I get involved in the story and characters only to see it pulled and unfinished. Very dissapointing. It makes it harder for me to get attached to new shows. Why bother since it will most likely be canceled soon.
I think the ratings for the season 2 finale will also play a role. If they were good and T4 is a huge blockbuster, there is a good chance the series will be back for a third season.
chazz, the ratings are in and they are just as bad as they have been in previous weeks.
Note TSCC fans the seasons/series finale equalled the numbers of FNL’s finale. That is not good and since TSCC doesn’t have DirecTV throwing money at it its gone.
OMG….I think this may be the Jericho of 2009. Except that FOX won’t bring it back like CBS did. We all have to face the fact that sometimes we can’t have what we want. Example – I’m a huge Chuck fan, and though I think that a case can be made to save that show I’m not going to gripe, cry, whine, blow snot, …etc if NBC decides to cancel it. TSCC fan’s need to grow up and stop shooting the messenger. These guys are very clear on how they use the data they use to predict a shows fate so just because you don’t like the data doesn’t mean that it’s not correct. And honestly it is only a TV show after all, if there was less TV on maybe we wouldn’t have a country full of fat people.
Common sense in a longish blog post?
Did this show tie in the up-coming movie?
Any chance DirecTV would consider purchasing TSCC? They seem to have found some success with FNL and that were reported to be looking to add some more shows.
Last nights episode was by far my favorite. I am just very disappointed that this show, and many other high quality science fiction shows are falling victim to the likes of American idol and dancing with the stars. The reason in my opinion is because there are TOO MANY STUPID PEOPLE that haven’t the brain power to follow a plot of any kind of complexity in America. Thus the popularity of these reality shows, where stupid people can just veg out and make themselves feel signifigant in some form by judging other stupid people on TV convulsing around a stage or screeching out bad songs in hopes of entertaining more stupid people. I can’t blame FOX though, they have to go where the money is, and it’s easier to get money from stupid people than from smart people. The smart people also tend to have the DVRs, which don’t count in the ratings system, so good Sci Fi shows have a lot working against them.
wow, for sure robert seidman loves the sound of his voice. but until he can timetravel, what he is doing is telling “how cool i am” to whoever wants to listen.
TSCC will no be canceled. i know because i timetravel all days.:-)
WW_Dagger, ah, the stupid argument, which is the dumbest thing ever. I wonder if Hockey fans go around saying “Football gets everything, football fans are too stupid to understand hockey!”. Maybe the shows just aren’t that interesting or entertaining for most people. The Sopranos made you think, was available to less than a 3rd of the homes in the country, and still had four times as many viewers for its finale than TSCC.
What do you make of that?
BTW, the ratings do incorporate the DVR viewing. We publish that information (click DVR Viewing in the navigation at the top of the page). Sadly TSCC’s ratings only go up to a ~1.8 with 18-49s when a week’s worth of DVR viewing is factored in. But right now live viewers matter way more than DVR viewers since DVR viewers like to bypass the commercials.
Tom… (I really don’t know how to say this nicely so)… shut up
Obviously T:TSCC will be cancelled… but know I feel bad for the past comment because you put a smiley face
now* not know, Oh my god my grammar is terrible when I type
“TV is actually a business that is run by the numbers!”
In America but not in all countries (and before you say that you are writing this in America, yes but you are read around the world)
I agree with Robert that the “everybody is stupid” argument is itself stupid.
While I’m someone who tends to view everybody but me as stupid (and they are! LOL!), the reality of TSCC is as I’ve said before. If you produce a show intended to make people people, you’d better think it through as much as your audience will.
The problem for TSCC is they did NOT do that! A lot of smart people viewed that show and came to two conclusions: 1) This is NOT Terminator, and 2) there are a lot of stupid gaps and bad premises and bad characterization and a lack of realism in these episodes. And the show moves like a glacier.
While there was quite a bit that was good and even excellent in TSCC, the problem WAS the problems with it: the focus, the pace, the damaging characterizations, the lack of realism, the lack of pushing the envelope.
And the people who cheered these problems on week after week uncritically are the stupid ones, not the people who decided they couldn’t handle watching any more mistakes or something that clearly was not what was expected from the Terminator franchise name.
The fans cheered TSCC into the ground. So I don’t have any sympathy for those whining about it now. I reserve sympathy for myself because I loved season one and hoped and believed that the show had huge potential and I hoped that the producers and writers would make it better over season two. Instead, it got worse and worse until the last three episodes and even then it was rushed, crammed and generally bad compared to what it could have been.
So I’m pissed, too – but not at Fox or the rest of the “stupid” people who didn’t watch the show. I’m pissed at the producers, the writers and the idiots who saw nothing wrong in the show while it was going into the toilet week after week.
Kermode said: In America but not in all countries (and before you say that you are writing this in America, yes but you are read around the world)
Errr I hate to say this but Capitalism and the need to make money to justify shows is rather popular around the world since ummmmmmm The Lenin led revolution did not occur! I like abit of Socialism in my government but alas FOX can run’t an 11 trillion deficet. I’m form Ireland myself so Its not an American making this comment.
TSCC is gone and buried at least come up with a half beleivable excuse for it to survive.
Sorry for the typo’s *damns tvbtn’s lack of edit button*
To sum it up: people have no patience or imagination any more, they want
graphics, explosions and smut, so the show took another route to explore
the characters, but took “too long”, so to hedge for the future, they
ended the show, with a slight chance of renewal in the story line. The
ending was excellent, except for the jump to the future which was a real
nice way of implicitly stating that the curtains are closing…may be.
Certainly, many ambiguities, where not even imagination can adequately
solve. If the show does get picked up for another season, it should be
interesting to see how they rectify the time lines, which of course,
PLAGUES the entire Terminator franchise to begin with! Too many paradoxes
in time travel, where the Terminator series is really about a time war.
We already “know” the end or a possible end, but going back to stop some-
thing that already has happened in the future, to prevent it in the past
from actually occurring, would prevent you from going back in the past to
prevent something that will not occur etc… Bottom-line, you can only
change the future in the present, not from the future or past…I think:)
Skynet is/was destined to be, no matter what form, since even John Henry
stated that the Internet had been taken over by Skynet in the present and
Skynet was building forces for a future to preserve itself, no matter what
that future might be. Furthermore, if time travel were possible, there would
be *theoretically* NO END to this, since as long as both parties (Skynet and
the Connors) do not end up in a dead time line where they have no way of
going back, each party *could* go back in any of an infinite set of time
lines in order to eradicate the existence of the other in that timeline’s
future. This is all fun, basic nonsense, but entertainment nonetheless.
What are the chances of the show getting syndicated or picked up at another channel?
I think if they built a “new” series off the season finale they might have something.
I’m guessing most here are American? I just found this bog from a Google search, being from the UK I have to say US TV producers seem far too quick to cancel very good shows based on lowish US rating, as if the rest of the world dose not exist. Plus I believe low ratings area a short sighted view to take any how, and tend to produce more and more banal and dumber TV shows, as the short term gratification is outweighing the long view, an American trait I suspect, I find it’s hard to think of many US TV shows apart from TSCC and Firefly I would not be able to describe as banal. Give it more time and it will run and re-run around the world for many years to come, just like Star trek and the single season of Firefly dose; this must make lots of money for someone!
this must make lots of money for someone!
But not for FOX!
Nobody is right that the basic concept of the Terminator franchise is utter nonsense. However, that’s why James Cameron sensibly limited the time travel to merely setting up the premise for events in the present. This is the best way to use time travel in sci-fi since otherwise it’s unworkable.
Friedman said he never wanted to do another time travel show, but he also admitted he was the one who kept sticking time travel in the show. The ending of the finale clearly was his schtick. That was one of TSCC’s many problems – whenever they got in a corner, they used time travel to write themselves out of it. Lazy writing.
If I start writing fan fic on this show, I’m gonna have to go all the way back to season one and start over due to the many ways they screwed up. I think I could salvage some of season one – I’d like to have Derek in the fiction – but season two is mostly a total loss, certainly after episode one.
I can understand the “numbers” approach, and being the harbinger of bad news has its downsides (as one could tell from reading the comments.) But I’ve also read and agreed with comments which suggest strongly that the ratings system, unless changed to further reflect the migration of viewers to other digital mediums (DVRing, purchasing episodes on iTunes, Hulu/Fancasting, etc.) the current ratings systems will not adequately reflect viewership.
I, along with many of my friends work in the service industry, and sometimes work late hours. Even if we don’t, I like to hit the sack early, and watch my primetime shows on Hulu or iTunes, if it has been too long. That I opt to watch a show at a more convenient hour should NOT count against the quality or viability of the show. Friday night? Please. If I’m not working or sleeping, I’m out having fun, living my life. Then Saturday afternoon, I catch up with my shows online. If Nielson or the networks do somehow tabulate these alternative forms into their ratings, I apologize for taking up time for anyone to read all this. But I have a feeling that is a lot of the problem.
I read this site every so often, but maybe someone can write an article about it? (If you already have, and I’ll be sure to look, I again apologize.)
Friedman was actually right the more that I thought about it in the season’s
last episode and quite possibly, the shows last episode regarding time travel.
In my opinion, he started to unravel the Terminator basic story line that is
taboo…time travel, since by doing so, the whole franchise premise starts to
really fall apart. Take the new movie coming out with Bale, precisely what
time line is that from? How can either be “cannon”; that is, TSCC or Salvation,
since young Connor ends up in the future (semi-prepared, but young and unknown),
while Bale’s portrayal is far different. This shows how much they are beating
a dead horse, which reminds me of about 95% of the new movies that are being
released, since Hollywood ran out of ideas about 10 or more years ago. Richard
Steven Hack is right about Friedman and time travel…he wasn’t going to do
time travel, but quickly found out how much of a Pandora’s Box it can be and
how quickly the storyline can askew, but yet he built upon it.
If I had to keep Season 2, but was able to re-write the last episode, I would
have had a different ending, which probably would have had a time jump of
only 1 year or so to “out run” this time line’s Skynet with Weaver, Connors,
Ellison and JH moving together after a massive fire fight in the building
with Skynet’s sentinels, which reminds me about just who precisely was John
Henry? Was he some form of an anti-Skynet? A new, more moral or perhaps
more devious Skynet for the future, since he could “lie” or hold secrets?
Who was Weaver, an AI wanting to supplant Skynet in the future with her own
power base or against that time line’s Skynet, since it was “bad”. Getting
back to the time jump of 1 year or so, it shows just how fragile this whole
Terminator concept is. On the surface it is about man making something that
turns against him, but can’t be told without this time concept, but can
quickly get out of hand which of course opens up more shows and movies for
the studios $$$, which further erodes artistic value. Don’t get me wrong,
I love the Terminator concept, but which movie or show is right…this time?:)
JW, IMHO, Hulu is the future of TV…it is what TV should be. TV that we know
now is dying. Almost any show moved by a network to a Friday time slot, is
asking for (Nielsen) rating problems. It was almost as if Fox wanted to see
how the show could survive after they shot it in the face. The masses don’t
get/want good science fiction and most shows, especially on major networks
regarding science fiction are on a race to avoid their own cancellations.
If TSCC comes back, they will have a hole, plot-wise, to dig themselves out of.
It’s obvious that the author of this article thinks that his readers are morons, not sure what that says about the author. “TV is actually a busines…” , you mean to tell me they are actually making money from their viewers?
I’ve never been to this site before and I am unlikely to ever be here again. Whilst I recognise that television is a business, studios never pursue or garner a true variety of shows for the intelligent viewer. They aim for the lowest common denominator and that’s lower than Eliza DoLittle in my fair lady before her magical conversion.
I can’t speak to whether the US rating system is flawed as my own countries is but I believe it is highly likely.
This will see us with the repetitive cop, law and order, hospital shows we’ve all ready seen for the past 40 years.
Personally I am not interested in Terminator 4: Salvation or whether it has any affect on TSCC. Television is superior to cinema release movies as it allows the viewers to explore true depth of characters. I may watch T4 but it wont be at the cinema.
To my dear FOX Network that spoils every decent show that comes on television, if you stick to your guns by continuing to show things like TSCC, people’s viewing habits will eventually change and they will tune in. Video killed the radio star. Internet killed the Video star. Adapt and survive. Do not regress and die.
Keep our shows on the air.
PS. Why does the US have constant interruptions to its TV series, it’ll be on for only two or three episodes and then you’ll take a weeks break, sometimes up to three weeks breaks then you’ll put it on for one or two weeks and take it off again for a week then show the rest of the series normally?
I don’t know about anyone else, but I am getting SOOOO tired of investing my time and emotions in new (and “bubbled” second season) shows, only to have them cancelled just when they start to find their potential (and my loyalty): shows like Dark Angel, Jake 2.0, Witchblade, Eyes, The 4000, Blood Ties, Jeremiah, Journeyman (I would have sacrificed ‘Chuck’ in a heartbeat to save Kevin McKidd and company), Moonlight, Jericho- the list goes on and on and on… I’ve gotten to the point that I’m so pissed-off, that I might stop watching the new and 2nd season shows altogether and just buy the DVD’s at the beginning of the 3rd season and catch- up. I’ve actually done this successfully in the past with Buffy, Angel and Lost (though not on purpose). But, I digress…
I realize that TSCC had a weak period in it’s second season, but so do a lot of hit shows (Heroes for example), but it regained its footing in the last few episodes. There are current 2nd season shows who’s best episodes aren’t even close to the quality of the TSCC’s ‘Dream’ episode (have I mentioned Chuck?).
People have forgotten a former #1 show that absolutely SUCKED in the ratings in its first two (to three) years – in fact it was at the bottom of the ratings the first season (remember Cheers? And Seinfeld didn’t fare much better early on). Yes, I realized that I’m comparing a drama (and SciFi drama at that) to 2 beloved comedies, but a quality show is watched, eventually (even if it is on DVD or iTunes) no matter what the genre (and ALL great dramas have comedic elements). It’s just that some future fantastic shows take ’several’ seasons to find a Nielsen top 20 audience. In the late 20th and early 21st centuries, TV execs have forgotten that bit of history- if they ever knew it.
This is my point (even if it will be considered naive): A show’s longevity should be based on its quality- whether it makes a positive difference in the lives of the people who watch it. Do they find something in the production, acting or writing that fuels and drives their imagination, and then makes them ache for that next episode. They discuss and argue about episodes with their friends and family. The X-Files is a great example of this. If the show hadn’t won a Golden Globe for best Drama in its first season, there probably wouldn’t have been a second season. But the QUALITY of the show was recognized early on and the fans began to find it (slowly) by… word of mouth.
How much $$$ did Fox make on THAT show?
Yes, TSCC is part of an established franchise, and the new movie might or might not make a difference for a 3rd season, but TSCC is mining a portion of the timeline that is a mystery to fans (think Stargate SG1)- and THAT is what fuels their imagination. But it is the show’s quality that keeps them coming back.
There are just SO many potential jewels that can be dug out and faceted in TSCC (just like all the other quality, though lesser viewed shows out there). They just need more time to continue to create these gems and finally find their Nielsen worthy audience.
And by the way, I’m still REALLY pissed-off about the cancellation of Journeyman and I want my money back for all those frigging boxes of Rice-a-Roni that I bought and mailed.
All TV executives are spineless wimps and they suck.
Thanks for the venting…
Dr. John: “TSCC is mining a portion of the timeline that is a mystery to fans (think Stargate SG1)- and THAT is what fuels their imagination. But it is the show’s quality that keeps them coming back.”
Actually TSCC was mining a “dry hole” – the “Crazy Sarah” concept. And that was what drove the wider audience away, leaving only the “Crazy Sarah” fans and those fans like me who desperately hoped the show would improve (or who hung on because they were Summer Glau fans or liked the Cameron character – who was, as I repeatedly said all season, fifty percent of the show but was rarely treated as such.)
Again, the X-Files comparison does not hold water, because the X-Files never dropped below five million LIVE viewers, except for one 4.7 million episode, and even then it was considered “ratings challenged”. TSCC is WAY below that number.
Nobody: I consider the movies to be canonical, even including T-3 (which was a bit of a problem since it both damaged the John Connor character and also violated the basic concept of “the future is not set”). Friedman always said TSCC would not be related to the T-3 or T-4 movies and would merely take up where T-2 left off and then branch off on its own. Unfortunately it branched a bit too far in the last episodes.
We’re not sure what John Henry or Weaver was. The implication is that Friedman borrowed from some of the Terminator fiction (which I’ve never read except for a comic or two and which are all non-canonical), in which the T-1000 liquid metal Terminators were evolved beyond Skynet and were actually a threat to Skynet which is why they weren’t seen much.
In fact, Weaver is implied to be the same T-1000 that was on the Jimmy Carter nuclear sub and who decided against joining John Connor in the future. Instead, she appears to have come back in time to create an “anti-Skynet” AI to combat Skynet both in the present and the future. Once John Henry was fully functional, she went FORWARD in time (the only time we see that happening except for the pilot episode) with Connor – for no known reason that I can see.
The concept of that plot development makes little sense if you analyze it. Worse, it sidelines the Connors as basically being irrelevant in that the war turns into a war between AIs. This is a very large case of hubris in rewriting and violating the basic concept of Terminator, which is the exploration of the relationship between humans and AIs, not AIs and AIs. As a Transhumanist, I could get into it, but it’s a bad idea from the point of view of trying to be a Terminator spin-off.
Really, what happened here is strictly a case of the writers throwing everything under a bus and trying to make a plot line out of it. It feels rushed, crammed and pointless since there won’t be a season 3. It’s almost as if Friedman and the writers wanted to nail down their specific concept of the show so that nobody else could do anything with it because there was no wiggle room left in the concept.
Truly a pathetic attitude.
“A show’s longevity should be based on its quality- whether it makes a positive difference in the lives of the people who watch it. Do they find something in the production, acting or writing that fuels and drives their imagination, and then makes them ache for that next episode. They discuss and argue about episodes with their friends and family. The X-Files is a great example of this. If the show hadn’t won a Golden Globe for best Drama in its first season, there probably wouldn’t have been a second season. But the QUALITY of the show was recognized early on and the fans began to find it (slowly) by… word of mouth.”
Whilst this is a lovely sentiment unfortunately it isn’t especially realistic and not just because it would require the networks or production companies to finance shows that are losing them money and ultimately these companies are businesses run to make money not lose it. More over the problem is you’d never be able to cancel any show using this system because every show has fans who love it, regardless of how awful you may or may not think they are who want to keep the show on air. Admittedly not all of them are as vocal as Terminator fans but they exist.
Your X-Files comparison is also flawed for a very simple reason – It wasn’t kept on the air because fans loved it, it was kept on air because critics loved it, the network loved it and it picked up award nominations and then wins. Whilst Terminator has picked up decent enough reviews the critical praise isn’t close to what The X-Files got and it hasn’t been picking up awards. If Terminator were a big award winner then there’d be a case for keeping it on the air. The fact that fans love it means nothing because every show has fans that love it.
Lipstick Jungle had obsessive fans who loved it as well and that didn’t help it.
Terminator’s quality hasn’t been recognised early on by anyone but its fans its also worth pointing out that Terminator’s ratings have gone in the opposite direction to The X-Files – it started big and has since faded massively. This isn’t a show that needs to build an audience it’s a show that has lost an audience because people didn’t care for the show. To lose viewers when you’re just about the only original show on air is a remarkable achievement for all the wrong reasons.
As things stand with the information we have I don’t see what the upside is for Fox or Warner Brothers to keep TSCC going. I don’t see what the upside is for WB to shop it to another network – I don’t believe they’re making money from DVD sales or international licenses and I don’t think any network is going to pay what Fox is to air the show either. Its also worth pointing out that keeping the show on air isn’t helping the Terminator franchise. Its not expanding the fan base and it’s a struggling show that’s denting the successful image of the franchise.
Yeah i liked terminator but its ratings were so…bad. Had probally the lowest ratings of any of there shows next too dollhouse.
sadly terminator was the only show on fox i watched live when i could. usally i hulu shows or watch them on fox’s website. Im not trying to knock fox’s other shows like i did on another post but the truth is I hate american idol, dont watch fox news, sick of cops and robbers shows, stoped watching simpsons years ago and am kinda tired of adult cartoons in a whole.
So even though i represent a very very very small majority of the few veiwers of terminator….fox will have one less person tuning in cause lol that was the only show worth my time….However 24 is good and im catching up online with that show.
I love the Terminator concept. The first time I saw the original movie,
I was blown away. At this point, the only “canon” in this series to me,
is what James Cameron cooked up, everything else is semi-interesting dabblings
for more studio money. I am sure there are some pretty sick cool elements
within the new Salvation movie, but to be honest, I am not going to go see it.
They need to be careful about the franchise, lest it turn into a Terminator
versus Alien/Predator prequel/sequel…reboot continuum, which would be utter trash.
The really strange thing about TSCC was that I loved the characters that
Friedman had invented. If he only introduced some more action here and there
in Season 2 and had a better ending, to the ending (no time jump or a very
short one with all the key characters, the show probably could have survived
another season). I loved Catherine Weaver and John Henry. Garret Dillahunt
was magnificent as John Henry and Cromartie. I can go on, but I know this
is all subjective. The Terminator franchise needs another shot in the arm
by Cameron…
“Terminator: Salvation” does need to be careful. The original ending McG picked – having John Connor die and be replaced by the Terminator/human hybrid Marcus Wright – was so stupid it would have killed the franchise dead. Fortunately that ending has been changed, but I don’t know that the new ending will be better or not.
I think the movie will do really well as an action flick. How it does in terms of following and properly expanding the franchise concept is an unknown at this point. I tend not to like the idea of Marcus Wright being a Terminator/human hybrid (that’s not a spoiler, just about everybody knows that by now), because it blurs the issue of man vs machine which is the core concept of Terminator. But it could work. We’ll just have to see.
We do know that McG treats T-3 as canonical because he allowed Kate Brewster, Connor’s wife, to be part of T-4. So even though McG indicated at WonderCon that he didn’t care for T-3, he accepts it as canonical. It’s not like Highlander, where Highlander 2 was the worst motion picture since Plan 9 From Outer Space and had to be ignored for every subsequent picture and the TV series because it was so awful.
Ha,ha,ha, Plan 9 from Outer Space was soooo bad it was good. I think Highlander
is better than Frankenfish myself which is quite possibly the most insanely stupid
piece of garbage the scifi channel or any one else for that matter has ever re-
leased.
Terminator without John Connor doesn’t work! Marcus Wright replacing John Connor
would have been the silver bullet to the franchise, lock, stock and barrel.
The original is almost always the best and any new Terminator incarnation can not
be considered Terminator without the central character John Connor and the
antagonistic Skynet. Good versus bad, man versus machine etc… This whole
hybrid thing worries me, since it reminds of the new Battlestar Galactica from
Ron Moore, but I digress on that. I am hoping that the new film is not just
another “vision”, you have never seen this before, action film that will not
fit nicely into the series. I still like the original vision of the future
made by Cameron concerning the Terminators and mankind’s existence/struggle.
I do believe, however, that Friedman hit an interesting nerve concerning
the *potential* of a power struggle between the machines, since if you think
about it, a T1001 (Weaver), which of course is pure fantasy, but if it could
exist, could develop its own viewpoints and possibly goals. I am not 100%
against John Connor teaming up with a small, but growing group of AIs that are
against the ruling Skynet juggernaut….
As I say, as a Transhumanist, I could get into it. But it would have to be really minimal not to derail the core concept.
I mean, based on what we’ve seen the T-1000’s do, basically they could wipe out the human race AND Skynet in a relatively short time. They’re virtually indestructible. As the fake leaked script had Cameron saying, no one, Terminator or human, has ever beaten one except Sarah Connor and that only happened because it fell into a steel mill! Only extreme heat or extreme cold could stop one. And that’s ONE! Imagine a small army of the suckers!
A plasma rifle might be able to destroy ONE if it could hit it enough times fast enough and then the bits themselves are destroyed. But given the speed of the one on the Jimmy Carter, I’d say there would have to be overwhelming numbers to make that work. That T-1000 was way faster than anything Robert Patrick did in T-2.
It’s just a bad idea to introduce such an overwhelming powerful force into the franchise. Which is why James Cameron called it a “prototype” and limited it to one. If Skynet had sent TWO, there would have been no T-3 or series – and no John Connor.
Also, Skynet would have to be very stupid to invent something even more powerful than itself. While it would ironic – since that is how it was created by humans – and would be perhaps a reasonable end to the entire franchise, it would necessarily end the primacy of humans as factors in the war.
And that’s not good from the point of view of revenue-producing movies and TV shows which require “heroes” to relate to. I could get into Weaver and John Henry – and maybe Cameron – being the “heroes” of a new TSCC, but I doubt many other people would. It’s not the core Terminator model – two humans plus one (or more) Terminators.
Honestly, I would like to see a strong and wise John Connor in the future, an
insanely powerful, but not perfect Skynet AND rebel AIs which just adds to
the intrigue the more I think about it. Weaver was insane. She was probably
the most powerful (single) machine constructed by the Skynet system. A nice
plot device concerning her insane characteristics would be her utter complexity
and cost of construction. Skynet pulling out all stops in its (illogical and
totally immoral war on mankind) with the T1000-series Terminators could only
make a very few, so, although, a single T1001 was far more powerful than a
single T888, a swarm of T888 could take the T1000+ down if need be. This
opens up a very interesting question about Skynet itself. Just what is
Skynet? Is is just a rogue software program or an evolving machine based in
some mainframe? I think the new film is supposed to bring Connor in direct
contact with the Skynet mainframe, which would be very interesting. Getting
back to Weaver, as powerful and advanced as she was, she might have been the
only one of her kind. It was interesting to see the reaction made by the T888
that was heading into the prison where Sarah was to “terminate” her, when he
attacked Weaver. It was almost as if he had “no data” on capabilities like
that. It also makes me wonder if the Skynet in the TSCC time line had any idea
about the true nature of Weaver. A terminator as advanced as Weaver I am sure
may view other Terminators as “inferior” and perhaps Skynet itself or did Skynet
take the ultimate gamble to build a few machines more powerful and adaptable
than itself to get that last upper hand on its human enemy in the hopes that
they could evolve and bring forth a new, AI dominated future? I am not so
sure of this, since there are sufficient facts, if you watch the series, concerning Weaver and Skynet (at least the one in that time line), where Weaver appeared to be working on parallel goals to Skynet.
they cant cancel it!!
This petition has the most signatures I’ve seen to save TSCC 15,600 so far, seems like our best chance. http://www.petitiononline.com/scconfox/petition.html
This one also looks promising with over 17,000 signatures. Closes tonight.
This one also looks promising with over 17,000 signatures. Closed tonight. sorry about the double post. http://www.petitiononline.com/scc2009/petition.html
Oh, I so hope you are right. Both TSCC and Dollhouse are just such horribly produced and written shows. Glau, Dushku and Ackerman all deserve better roles and the cancellations will free them up. Please, FOX, just do it!
Man I hate doom and gloomers. Piss me off real bad. Actually wait to complain and enjoy it while you can.
Brian Austin Green has done a great job acting in TSCC. My favorite part is where he was chewing out a cadet at a military academy regarding his attitude that war was a game – especially the moment where he says, “The game,” glances at the cadet’s nametag, “Pyle, …” You could see all of his experineces in the war against the machines brewing behind his monologue. Great job!.
Richard T. Jones has done an excellent job acting in TSCC. Calm, cool, collected, deep thinking, sees things most people don’t. Richard really brings James Ellison to life. His character has some Peter Falk “Columbo” moments where he asks questions or gives observations that she just can’t see coming – he keeps Weaver off balance / gives her a big mental run for her money.
Garret Dillahunt does a great job portraying a cyborg that is mentally growing and developing its understanding of itself and the world around it. It almost appears as if John Henry is becoming more and more human or that John Henry knows that humans are valuable – that he is learning and getting a better understanding of what Ellison is teaching him.
I’ll have to stop there for now and post more later.
Herb
The gradient fill images for the write a comment fields dont line up with the text fields – that’s probably why there are no comments in this area. – click at the right side of the “fields” and your mouse will turn into an I-beam then you’ll figure out how to submit a comment.
Things I think should be explored in a 3rd season:
What happened to the Ms. Weaver Liquid terminator when John jumped to whenever at the end of the finale?
Did Ellison pick up Savanah like he was asked and what happens to him and Savanah?
Weaver said “not where but when is John Henry” well if JH jumped sometime then why was there no “pit” where he had been connected to the computer via cable? How could he have jumped to sometime else?
If JH did jump to somewhen else – where? Let’s say he jumped to the same time Weaver and JConnor did…
…Will JH meet up with JC?
* Does JH have Cameron’s chip in his head?
* Or is JH’s chip still in his head and Cameron’s chip in his pocket?
* If cameron’s “body” could not come with Weaver and JC then how is it JH was able to jump?
* Was Cameron’s body not able to jump because of the exposed metal on her face?
* If so will JH talk to JC with knowledge and experineces of Cameron?
* If so how will their relationship change?
* Will there be another terminator created in Allison’s image and Cameron’s chip put in it so they can pick up where they left off?
* Are John and Cameron developing a relationship?
* Is Cameron “learning” more about humanity and thus becoming more “human”?
* What happened to JH’s chip?
* Did Kyle Reese return from some mission and leave his coat behind and that’s why Derek was surprised that JC was wearing his brother’s coat?
* Is JC really a nobody where (when) he is now?
* Will JC approach Allison and talk to her?
* John’s expressions change during the slow-mo at the end of the season finale but you have to watch it a few times to decypher the meaning behind them.
I’m sure I’ll come up with more questions to ask.
Mr. H
I could watch the last segment of the finale over and over and over…especially the last 5 minutes.
The segment starting at finding Cameron in John Henry’s room through the sphere-jump really tugs at your heartstrings. Seeing Derek and Kyle Reese tugs at them again and then seeing Allison come from behind Kyle – that just tears your heart apart.
There’s no way they can just leave it at that.
Mr. H
Is there any possibility of this show being picked up for cable? Maybe SciFi or TNT or something? It’s ratings would seem to justify that, no?
For what its worth Ausiello/Entertainment Weekly is now reporting that the show is done.
http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/04/scoop-fox-set-t.html
I just figured out while thinking about it overnight – Cameron was put into the Turk hence the message to John over and over on the monitor. John Henry was transferred from the Turk to Cameron’s chip in JH’s head.
Other questions:
Was the Turk w/ Cameron’s experiences destroyed when John and Ms Weaver jumped? I didn’t see it in the very last scene of the finale.
When Sarah said “I love you too” where was Mr Ellison? He was standing to Sara’s right when the jump happened.
Mr. H
Sarah conner chronickls, Is my fav show, and i know the ratings are down so i am trying to get my friends hooked on it like i am.
I was bummed anuff that the season was over now this! Do not stop, people love this show
Do not replace thomas dekker for Marcus Wright! without thomas being the john, the show is…well not as good… or wont be!!!!!
I love this show, I would be very disappointed if this show was cancelled. I have this cued in The Hulu site. I wonder do they take into consideration the viewers that watch this show online and may not be counted in the rating system, especially the younger demographic viewing group.
I have said this about a few shows already that I love. The neilsen rating system sucks and to me does not show the truest mainstay of true fans or watchers. Heck there was a movie a while back that had the neilson boxes found and those people sent on a cruise in order for other people to go into them and watch what the antagonist wanted them to watch to drive ratings up on a tv show? MY TRUE belief is that with the new DTV converter box manditory switch over is going do away with neilson cause they can monitor all of us from our boxes, cable boxes and sat. boxes. I believe this will give them a better perspective of what TRUE wiewership is and to cancel a show on the verge of this tech coming is stupid. Besides what about with other media like online viewership what the heck. They get paid for our veiwership there by the ads they show and can easily monitor how many times its beeing watched and so on, beside that if you think about that media and others like 1.99 downloads and so on was the reason behind the “WRITERS STRIKE” so we know there is money in their new media to be made and with counts on downloads and media watched and hosting bandwith beeing tallied plus the new DTV boxes coupled with the sat. and cable boxes out there TV will get a better tally on viewership. So keep shows around for next year that did ok in ratings (GET IT ON A BETTER NIGHT) and that the fans feel most likely did better and the ones fans are petitioning for them to be saved. I would like to see where TSCC is going after the cliffhanger ending we got April 10th and I think it will show some serious flare to bring it back and see what true viewship you will get next year. SAVE TSCC!!SAVE (CONT’D) and so on was the reason behind the “WRITERS STRIKE” so we know there is money in their new media to be made and with counts on downloads and media watched and hosting bandwith beeing tallied plus the new DTV boxes coupled with the sat. and cable boxes out there TV will get a better tally on viewership. So keep shows around for next year that did ok in ratings and that the fans feel most likely did better and the ones fans are petitioning for them to be saved. I would like to see where TSCC is going after the cliffhanger ending we got April 10th and I think it will show some serious flare to bring it back and see what true viewship you will get next year. SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE Dont let nielsons kill any more great shows!!!!!!!!TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE Dont let nielsons kill any more great shows!!!!!!!!TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE Dont let nielsons kill any more great shows!!!!!!!!TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!SAVE TSCC!!
I sincerely hope this site is Terminated along with the Nielsen ratings system REAL SOON!
Best news I’ve heard yet…
http://io9.com/5213470/dollhouse-and-terminator-really-not-canceled-yet-say-insiders#viewcomments
Okay people, I just want to say something. I’m a teen and to me you’re all in fault. I think that everyone should stop bashing. I love the show, but I’m realistic in it not coming back, though I truly, truly wish it would. Mr. Seidman, I think you shouldn’t banter with people on your article because you’re probably slightly frustrated on what people say, and you write back causing people to be aggravated. People stop lying about stuff. People stop trying to disprove people. Also stop calling people on the way they write. People say one word and everyone else has to call it. The article was fine writing, but the posts aggravated me. I really just wish I could have a show to hold memories to, like people have friends, or the simpsons. All I have is Pokemon, and I really hoped TSCC would be a long running show. Viva TSCC and Viva Summer Glau, the best actress ever!
I saw the first season and it was great, too bad they made it short. I haven’t watch the second season expect the first episode. It’s sad if had to say good bye to Sarah Connor Chronicles… it’s great show.
I read like half of the posts and decided to just post my thoughts (sorry if someone already said this). I realize that the series is probably not going to be renewed, which really sucks because I personally think it’s one of the greatest shows ever to air. However there have been cases of canceled shows getting “wrapped up”. for example When Farscape was canceled the studio listened to the fanbase and made a two part miniseries to sum it up. When Firefly was canceled the studio made a movie to give closure. Just because the series gets canceled doesn’t mean the fans can’t have closure after the cliffhanger ending of season 2. I just don’t want to be left in the dark with a cliffhanger ending to a series… Give the writers a chance to close it. Let’s not have another abrupt ending like Brimstone.
Mr.H you are so right! That is amazing news!!! It is to early to give up hope, Thanks for posting that! That just made my week. If they renew it for a third season it will own everything on tv!!! Screw Salvation the Connor Chronicles will do right by the franchise.