| Scoreboard |  |
 |
 |
 |
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|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Rating/Share: Adults 18-49 | 1.6/5 | 1.4/5 | 1.4/5 | 1.0/4 | 0.5/2 |
| Total Viewers (million) | 5.19 | 6.55 | 5.70 | 3.03 | 1.28 |
Sorry for the delays in posting this…
The question on everyone’s mind was how many people would watch Prison Break? Apparently more people had that question than actually watched Prison Break’s return. The original episode at 9pm drew a 1.2 adults 18-49 rating and 3.38 million viewers. That was a little bit worse than I expected. There were fewer people watching broadcast television last night because CBS ran all repeats, but anyone who was hoping Prison Break was going to be a better lead-in for Dollhouse than Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles has now given up that ghost!
I actually did think that Prison Break might be a slightly better lead-in, but didn’t think it would make any difference for Dollhouse’s numbers. We’ll have to wait and see what happens next week. But for now it looks like FOX has inched one step closer to returning to unscripted content on Friday night.
Speaking of which, with CBS in repeats, ABC won the night in terms of 18-49 year olds with its unscripted fare, and NBC found itself in the rare Friday position of winning an hour and having the most-watched hour of the night in the adult 18-49 demo with the 10pm hour of Dateline.
You can compare with previous Friday overnight reports.
Full details:
| Time | Net | Show | 18-49 Rating/Share | Viewers (Millons) |
| 8:00 | ABC | Wife Swap | 1.7/7 | 5.46 |
| CBS | Ghost Whisperer (R) | 1.3/5 | 6.58 | |
| NBC | Howie Do It | 0.9/3 | 3.34 | |
| FOX | Prison Break (R) | 0.8/3 | 2.68 | |
| CW | Everybody Hates Chris (R) | 0.6/2 | 1.44 | |
| 8:30 | CW | The Game (R) | 0.5/2 | 1.31 |
| 9:00 | ABC | Supernanny (R) | 1.6/5 | 4.71 |
| NBC | Dateline | 1.5/5 | 5.98 | |
| CBS | Flashpoint (R) | 1.3/4 | 6.38 | |
| FOX | Prison Break | 1.2/4 | 3.38 | |
| CW | America’s Next Top Model (R) | 0.5/2 | 1.17 | |
| 10:00 | NBC | Dateline | 2.0/6 | 7.80 |
| CBS | Numb3rs (R) | 1.6/5 | 6.68 | |
| ABC | 20/20 | 1.4/5 | 5.39 |
Shows are sorted by 18-49 rating in each time slot.
Nielsen TV Ratings: ©2009 The Nielsen Company. All Rights Reserved. Source Marc Berman/Mediaweek.
Definitions:
Fast Affiliate Ratings: These first national ratings, including demographics, are available at approximately 11 AM (ET) the day after telecast, and are released to subscribing customers daily. These data, from the National People Meter sample, are strictly time-period information, based on the normal broadcast network feed, and include all programming on the affiliated stations, sometimes including network programming, sometimes not. The figures may include stations that did not air the entire network feed, as well as local news breaks or cutaways for local coverage or other programming. Fast Affiliate ratings are not as useful for live programs and are likely to differ significantly from the final results, because the data reflect normal broadcast feed patterns. For example, with a World Series game, Fast Affiliate Ratings would include whatever aired from 8-11PM on affiliates in the Pacific Time Zone, following the live football game, but not game coverage that begins at 5PM PT. The same would be true of Presidential debates as well as live award shows and breaking news reports.
Rating: Estimated percentage of the universe of TV households (or other specified group) tuned to a program in the average minute. Ratings are expressed as a percent.
Share (of Audience): The percent of households (or persons) using television who are tuned to a specific program, station or network in a specific area at a specific time. (See also, Rating, which represents tuning or viewing as a percent of the entire population being measured.)
Time Shifted Viewing – Program ratings for national sources are produced in three streams of data – Live, Live+Same Day (Live+SD) and Live+7 Day. Time shifted figures account for incremental viewing that takes place with DVRs which are currently in approximately 24.4% of all U.S. TV households. Live+Same Day (Live+SD) include viewing during the same broadcast day as the original telecast, with a cut-off of 3:00AM local time when meters transmit daily viewing to Nielsen for processing. Live+7 Day ratings include incremental viewing that takes place during the 7 days following a telecast.
For more information see Numbers 101.
Wow, PB pulling a 1.2 is kinda bad.
Although, I have never thought that PB has to be a bigger lead-in than TSCC to help Dollhouse a bit. The only help it can now give is because new people are sampling the show. And that’s the one thing Dollhouse needs most.
Wow, even lower than Dollhouse.
Ha, Ha. Fox might as well keep Dollhouse and TSCC around next season, because Friday is a deathtrap for Fox.
Yay! Dollhouse does about a million times better than Prison Break did in the same timeslot!!! Nothing says “AWESOME!” like doing better than a cancelled show that’s been off the air for four months!! This is clearly a clear sign that nothing on FOX could possibly do better on Friday nights than Dollhouse!! Clearly! Yay! I am more sure than ever that FOX will pick Dollhouse up for another season! This is the awesomest news ever!
The bad part, though, is that there was no new Dollhouse this week! And if the ratings go down (oh no!) it’ll be because of this blasted hiatus! It wouldn’t possibly be because of the show itself–which is the most awesome show that ever awesomed!!!
Also, does Prison Break have to be the show’s lead-in next week? It’s probably too late to change that, isn’t it? Well if Dollhouse grows from Prison Break, then that will be superawesome and a clear sign that FOX is going to pick up Dollhouse for another season. But if Dollhouse doesn’t grow from Prison Break, that’s a clear sign that FOX will see the light, renew the show for another season, and put it on a different night!
Dollhouse is the best thing in the history of the universe!
What kind of ratings was prison break expected to bring in?
its been 4 months since the last episode and didnt the last episode in december only pull about 4.9 million viwers? and the cancellation news in January probably scared away viewers dont u think????????
wow prison break was worse than sarah connor if prison break wasnt already cancelled this would definately have finished it off
*viewers
Cameron was vaporized last week and only 3.6 million watched, I thought Cameron was the only thing supposed fans wanted. Fox will be churning out more American Idols.
WTF AMERICANS????????????????????????????
Prison Break is at its end and most shows during their end do worse, which is usually why their ending. Also Friday in my opinion will always be a wasteland for FOX, with the exception of Fifth Grader and Lyrics which have done above average. Thats even worse for Prison Break considering that everything else at 9 was a repeat except Dateline.
to jack
prison break was in pretty much the same situation that sarah connor was in when it returned as it had also been off the air for a couple of months or more and sarah connor was lower rated than prison break in the fall but still managed better numbers in its friday premiere
Friday night sucks for drama TV series, FOX can put whatever they want in there and would do the same. The problem is not Terminator/Dollhouse/Prison Break the problem is this slot.
Put Fringe Friday 8, and would put similar numbers than Terminator/Prison Break/ Dollhouse. I hope Fox realises that and gives another chance to Terminator and Dollhouse.
They should have listened and ended PB last year with 16 eps like some at FOX suggested.Instead of dragging that crap back this year horrible!
Fox pissed me off last night! All week they were advertising Prison Break’s two hour premiere and then I turn on the TV last night and I find out that the first hour is a rerun! I switched the TV to Wife Swap for an hour rather than watch a rerun. I bet part of the reason for Prison Break’s low numbers was that people saw that it was a rerun and probably figured the whole night on Fox was repeats. I could definitely see someone turning on the TV to watch Prison Break, seeing a rerun, figuring that the premiere must be next week, and deciding to go out and get wasted instead of watching TV.
Fox should renew Terminator and Dollhouse with a good contract with the advertisers, whatever they put in there is not going to do much better.
Joss’s Biggest Fan says:
“hi im overly delusional”
well, dollhouse fans will look back on this as a major victory for some reason… god only knows why…
I Love T:SCC so could these numbers persuade FOX or do people think Dollhouse and T:SCC are both dead in the water.
which tbh i wouldnt be suprised with considering the numbers of the previous Friday’s
and secondly I have been a massive Prison Break since Season 1 but even i admit a 1.2 rating is bad but ultimately the ratings wont matter since the series is already cancelled and the finale airs on May 15
Dollhouse did a million times better than PB? Heum… no freaking way.. it did 1.4… .2 better than prison break. This friday line up is heading to the trash. Fox will have a lot of holes to fill in september…
“What kind of ratings was prison break expected to bring in?”
I think the writer here predicted a 1.5-1.6 share for the new episode.
Ow.
IT’s not the time slot last year it did bad also another excuse jeeze.
Terminator and Prison Break were getting horrible numbers on Mondays- that’s why they were moved to Fridays in the first place. They both deserve to be cancelled.
maybe fox should try a special edition of american idol on fridays at 8 instead of the thursday editions that keep ruining bones ratings
Chad, I predicted 1.4 (same as Dollhouse). But yeah, that was wrong.
Jack, it seems more likely the results (and not just this week) will persuade FOX into promoting reruns of House, Lie to Me, Bones, etc, and unscripted content.
I can’t say I’m surprised Prison Break didn’t make any improvements on the Terminator/Dollhouse pairing I am a little surprised that the new Prison Break only managed a 1.2, although surprised probably isn’t the right word there. I was however expecting a couple of tenths higher to put it on the same level as Terminator and Dollhouse but I never brought into the idea that Prison Break was going to be the magic cure for Dollhouse’s ills.
With that said anyone who tries to spin this into a positive for (the dead) Terminator or (the dying) Dollhouse has me worried. There’s really no positives for Fox here at all.
EDIT – I take that back the original Prison Break is pretty much on the same level as original Terminator.
Also is NBC producing four hours of dateline this week? Two hours last night and two hours on Sunday? That seems like a lot. Although at least its not more Law & Order repeats I guess.
on another note maybe we should start predicting the ratings for Prison Break’s series finale on May 15th going with the old theory that old viewers who had given up on the series tune in to see how it ends.
I predict between 3.5-6.0m with a 1.3-2.1 rating
what do you guys think?
With that said anyone who tries to spin this into a positive for (the dead) Terminator or (the dying) Dollhouse has me worried. There’s really no positives for Fox here at all.
Ha, Alex. The one thing I predicted correctly was that if it did worse than Dollhouse/TSCC those fans would rejoice. But I’m with you, it’s not good news for those fans, not good news for FOX, and not good news for fans of scripted shows who enjoyed having some additional scripted content on Friday night broadcast television.
All things considered … ugh.
FOX has made a great promotion for Prison Break for that night and that it’s the result, far worse than Terminator/Dollhouse pairing. That is sad for Dollhouse, Prison Break is going to be worse lead in that Terminator was.
I hope Warner realise that the problem with Terminator was this sucking timne slot and give the show another chance in one of its own networks. FOX has never give the show a good lead in, in exeption of the pilot.
prison break series finale wont pass 4.5m
Anytime Dateline shows up at 9, as it did this week, other “serious” (scripted drama) fare goes down. Dollhouse would probably have done about the same as Prison Break this week for just that reason.
This is beyond bad news for Fox.
“I hope Warner realise that the problem with Terminator was this sucking timne slot and give the show another chance in one of its own networks”
Smde that’s not true. Terminator was moved to Friday because its numbers on Monday were horrible. I honestly don’t think anyone can make a case for Friday being behind Terminator dying. It wasn’t. The show was dead before it moved to Friday.
And Robert the rejoicing fans are odd. But then I really don’t understand the ‘nothing will perform better than our poorly performing show so that’s a win’ mentality.
Was there any evidence Fox was serious about trying to build an audience base on Friday nights? That usually takes a long time, which means the network has to be patient and accept 1.2-1.5 18-49 ratings. It took News Corp a few years to build Fox News up to one million viewers…
I guess my point is that Fox was simply blowing off its remaining TSCC, Dollhouse, and PB episodes on Friday nights and was covering with their claim of trying to build a Friday viewer base. Oh well. “Don’t Forget The Lyrics” it is.
“Yay! Dollhouse does about a million times better than Prison Break did in the same timeslot!!!”
Yeah, wait until Dollhouse hits a season low next week with Prison Break as its lead in.
Mr Seidman, I never see you flame Chuck fans when they rejoice when new shows on NBC air and fail. That’s kinda hypocryte.
WATCH PRISON BREAK AMERICAAAANSS !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Alex, the mentality is crazy. a well-adjust person would just say, “that sucks, it didn’t perform well” and move on. But I don’t think we’re talking about well-adjusted people. With some, it’s like they attach their own self-worth to the performances of their shows, and when those shows don’t perform well…
“Was there any evidence Fox was serious about trying to build an audience base on Friday nights?”
Nick C says that his sources at Fox told him that Fox actually thought Sci-Fi Friday might work.
Amazingly bad is that PB show from the horrid acting to the production and the plot now.Won’t be watching that anymore no wonder it’s canned!!
Outlander its hard to know whether Fox are or ever were serious about building Friday into a viable night but I think what we’ve seen happening on Friday has probably soured that ambition if it ever existed. For all the talk of having to be patient and allow these shows time to grow an audience on Friday there’s been very little sign of there being anything to invest in with Dollhouse, which was realistically the only show from these Friday blocks Fox might have kept around.
I think Fox invested in growing The X-Files because there were signs that there was something worth investing in with the show. Good leads, good writing and growing critical buzz. With Dollhouse even the good episodes have been hit and miss and the leads are still incredibly wooden and uncomfortable. There’s just not much there that says to Fox they should invest in growing a hit from this show. I think a fair (but not perfect) comparison for right now would be Dollhouse vs. Lie To Me.
Since moving to a pre-Idol slot Lie To Me has dropped a lot but there’s something there to invest in. Good writing, good leads and it hasn’t spent months getting absolutely slaughtered by critics and fans alike. Ultimately there’s a base there to build from and all signs point toward Fox being interested in doing that. With Dollhouse there doesn’t seem to be a base.
PB’s seaseon 4 is a joke… it’s over… won’t see it next season…
JohnsonWest, considering it was already canceled, that’s a good guess.
Tony I don’t think its fair to compare the Chuck fans situation with the Terminator or Dollhouse fans situations because ultimately they’re different reactions to similar situations. For the most part Chuck fans don’t rejoice about show x bombing because it makes the numbers Chuck gets any better, they rejoice because they’ve gotten it into their head that Chuck is competing with everything else on the NBC schedule for the last renewal spot for next year. Terminator and Dollhouse fans meanwhile rejoice because they’ve somehow gotten it into their heads that Prison Break pulling slightly more horrible numbers than the horrible numbers TSCC and Dollhouse pull is a good thing for their shows. That isn’t the case.
That mentality makes even less sense when you consider that Prison Break has already been axed and told to wrap up its storylines with these last episodes. Its not as if Fox considers the show a hit anymore or a prospect for another season next year. It’s a dead show that Fox is now burning episodes of.
Friday nights suck for good scifi or drama series. Only crap like Wife swap or Ghost Whisperer do well. If good shows like Dollhouse and Terminator get can and FOX decide to put some reality crap at Fridays It would be kind of sad. No more crap on TV and Yes more script intelligent TV.
“But I’m with you, it’s not good news for those fans,”
Accurately predicted that the PB numbers would be spun negatively about TSCC/DH.
I felt the news was generally irrelevant, not necessarily bad. Unless Fox is somehow encouraged to move one of the above shows to a friendlier night. Factoring in how many shows will launch, with this economy, who really knows. There, I can spin the news to be (unlikely) positive.
Chad I don’t think anyone is looking at Prison Break as bad news for Dollhouse (except the crazies who expect Prison Break to be a big lead-in for Dollhouse) and it really has absolutely no impact on the already dead Terminator and was never going to. The point is that Prison Break results just aren’t good news for Dollhouse. They’re not really news at all. One show bombing slightly worse than another show that bombed in the same slot isn’t good news because both shows still bombed.
Fox aren’t in a position where they need to pick up the show that ‘bombed the least’
Chad, all ratings news is generally irrelevant except to those who find it relevant. But from the perspective of “the show wasn’t coming back anyway, what difference does it make?” I’d agree it is more irrelevant than bad. Personally, I think it’s seemed likely for weeks that FOX was going to do something else with Fridays next year but moving TSCC or Dollhouse to a friendlier night, won’t be part of those plans.
Fridays is just horrendous in general for every network besides CBS. I give credit to Fox for actually trying to revitalize the night but it’s just not going to work. Coming next season, Friday: the new Saturday!
bhè yestarday there were 17 again and FAST AND FURIUS in the cinema. because it was a terrible night. usually cbs get 7-8 million in reruns. supernanny lost 1 million. everyone was out yesterday night.
Well, I sincerely hope that Fox will note the numbers, and wonder if Dollhouse might do well in a different timeslot given it’s beaten out two “anticipated finales” in roughly the same slot (T:SCC last week, albeit an hour earlier, and PB this week.)
Note the use of the word “hope” rather than “think”. Still, Reilly is supposed to be willing to give shows a chance that others wouldn’t, so it’s not impossible.
american idol on friday too???????? harrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh nooooo! we have enough AI every night from tuesday to thursday. and what it would be supposed to get?? i predict 5-6 million.. friday night is for reality show such as Supernanny and ‘are you smarter’. move these shows on another night or get ride of them because this story is really struggling..
why fox hasn’t a 10 pm line-up? they asked a lot of pilot for next season (a lot of crap for next season as i read), where will they put all them?
I don’t get why everyone was expecting PB to come back with a bang. It has been off the air for 4 months with hardly any advertising. And it’s on a Friday. Fox Fridays are never going to get good ratings.
I think the fact that they put Prison Break on on Friday night instead of the Monday night everybody was accustomed to may have had something to do with the low ratings too. I am a PB fan since episode one and I will watch until the last second, it’s still my favorite show and I think the best show ever, despite its many shortcomings. It just somehow WORKS!!! I am sad to see it go off, I have never enjoyed a show as much.
That numbers mean that is likely that will be more reality crap at Friday nights.
Over 11 million people watched repeats between 9p-10p and CBS didn’t go below 6mill viewers while in repeat mode- so the potential to have decent viewership on a Friday night is there. Maybe the lack of viewers has more to do with the lack of quality (perceived or otherwise)? Just a thought!
Just glad that PB will come to a conclusion (?)…and TSCC finished with a conclusion. Hopefully DH gets the same treatment, and all will be well.
Pushing Daisies and Dirty Sexy Money will do better on Saturday than Prison Break did yesterday.
i can see why FOX isnt airing the REAL series finale of Prison Break with these ratings
it’s not the shows people,it’s the night!
Did anyone else notice NBC got more milage out of a 9pm Dateline than almost every single episode of Friday Night Lights?
This is why I am of the mind that there is almost no way that was a good deal for NBC unless they got each episode for one penny. Maybe not even then.
This is not fair! Prison Break should have stayed on Mondays, this is absolutely shocking! Till episode 16 season 4 averaged around 5.5 – 6 million, do people watch more television on Monday???
Prison Break had more viewers than TSCC and Dollhouse till episode 16, where are those 2 million viewers, do they go out on Friday nights???
Anyway, I’m sad the show will end this way (the show itself is awesome by the way) and let it be a warning for Fox to NOT air their shows on a Friday!
Prison Break fan 4live!!!
I told you TSCC and Dollhouse were SUCCESSFUL FRIDAY SHOWS.
If you had compared your statistics to all friday shows, you’d see that TSCC and DH does incredibly well for the demographics of a Friday night. In other words, if you were to put TSCC after American Idol on Wednesday, and DH after American Idol on I think Tuesday, they would outperform Lie to Me and Fringe…I bet you.
It really doesn’t matter what ratings PB Gets, people are only just tuning in just to see how it ends, and there are only 5 more eps left anyway.
But i guess the real test is next week, to see how DH Does paired with PB.
I’m guessing most people are just resorting to downloading PB, rather than watching it on Fridays.
I never, ever thought PB (which is simply one of the worst shows in the history of television — though I’ll admit to enjoying the first season) would be a better lead in.
And I’ve always thought that the main challenge for DOLLHOUSE was to hold or expand its lead in audience. If it can get 3.8 to 4.2 million viewers and PB continues these paltry numbers, it will make DOLLHOUSE look like a much stronger show.
One of FOX’s complaints with TSCC was that it didn’t provide PB with a strong enough lead in. Well, now it looks like PB didn’t get viewers simply because it sucked.
As a DOLLHOUSE fan, it does make me wonder what kind of numbers DOLLHOUSE would have gotten had they paired it with 24 like they originally planned.
I love Joss’s Biggest Fan’s posts. Even more than the posts, though, I love how some people actually take them seriously and try to refute them.
I thought PB would do better. Probably Fox SHOULD just put unscripted programs on the night, unless it wants to try reruns of something like House.
Thank you, Lisa. I was starting to wonder if I was the only one who realized he was being ironic
I think the problem is not Prison Break, Terminator, or Dollhouse but more the day of the week. The shift to Friday for both Terminator and Prison Break has killed both shows and Dollhouse never had a chance. I don’t watch Dollhouse but for the fans I’m sure this is very frustrating. Had Prison Break not been at the end of its run anyway I’m sure Friday would have sealed its fate too.
What upsets me most about all this is that it would seem that had Terminator not been moved to Friday it quite possibily would have held out better. Look at the other programs that were against it when it was on Monday night; it did better even opposite Dancing With The Stars than on Friday.
Friday = D-E-A-T-H
AC, other than ignoring the fact that those shows (TSCC/Prison Break) got moved to Fridays because they performed abysmally on Mondays…
For those who forgot/wondered how PB did in Mondays:
The first 16 episodes of the season, which had the Monday slot, averaged at 5.66 Million Viewers and a 2.2/5 in the 18-49 demo.
Besides last nights episode (First Friday episode), The last episode that aired on a Monday night was the lowest-rated episode of the season both in viewers and demo, though it aired on a holiday.
Last night’s Friday Premiere was down -2.28 million viewers and -1.0 in the demo compared to the Monday average.
Detailed info:
- S04E01 and S04E02 (aired at the same night): 6.48 Million Viewers and a 2.6/7 in the 18-49 demo.
- S04E03: 6.478 Million Viewers and a 2.6/6 in the 18-49 demo.
- S04E04: 5.887 Million Viewers and a 2.5/6 in the 18-49 demo.
- S04E05: 5.929 Million Viewers and a 2.5/6 in the 18-49 demo.
- S04E06: 5.26 Million Viewers and a 2.0/5 in the 18-49 demo.
- S04E07: 5.427 Million Viewers and a 2.2/5 in the 18-49 demo.
- S04E08: 5.84 Million Viewers and a 2.4/5 in the 18-49 demo.
- S04E09: 5.24 Million Viewers and a 2.1/5 in the 18-49 demo.
- S04E10: 5.41 Million Viewers and a 2.2/5 in the 18-49 demo.
- S04E11: 5.89 Million Viewers and a 2.3/5 in the 18-49 demo.
- S04E12: 5.25 Million Viewers and a 2.1/5 in the 18-49 demo.
- S04E13: 5.80 Million Viewers and a 2.2/5 in the 18-49 demo.
- S04E14: 5.39 Million Viewers and a 2.1/5 in the 18-49 demo.
- S04E15: 5.74 Million Viewers and a 2.3/5 in the 18-49 demo.
- S04E16: 4.986 Million Viewers and a 1.9/5 in the 18-49 demo.
I guess Friday sucks for TV.
Doesn’t CBS generate good numbers on Friday? Ghost Whisperer averages over 10mil with each new outing with no lead in.
Just saying, you can’t blame it all on Fridays!
Dollhouse or TSCC fans thinking a poorly performing Prison Break is good news is really bizarre thinking.
The case for FOX making Friday night a reality TV block for a string of limited runs is building, and the Prison Break performance provides additional (although minor, because the existing evidence is already substantial) reinforcement for that. If you’re going to get these ratings on Friday, the natural business reaction is to PAY LESS for them, not dish out new expensive episodes of low-rated series. That’s just stupid.
I think FOX has a few reality shows on deck without enough schedule space for all of them. One option could be to run them in a Friday block and air the new reality series in those spots as the old ones end. Anything that hits during a limited run could be moved out into a reoccurring weekday slot outside of Friday, and Friday could continue to be a reality TV test lab.
I know for some of you that sounds like TV Armageddon, but it’s becoming more and more likely.
I’m really tired of “quality” arguments. I think the quality of Dollhouse is definitely debatable, but I don’t understand why there is an expectation that TV viewers are supposed to choose “quality” when that isn’t the primary criteria in most of their other entertainment choices.
You can run “Mall Cop” and “Citizen Kane” in a twin theater any day of the week two years from now, and (while neither will do particularly well) “Mall Cop” is going to do better.
The best performing class of novel is romance fiction – by far. The largest publisher of those books is Harlequin. Their readers get the same story every time – only presented a little differently. No one claims these novels set a quality standard for literature, and no one complains that they far outsell “quality” or other genre fiction.
Prison Break was never a viable show after its second season, no matter the timeslot. It should’ve never been renewed past its second season finale, which would’ve been a good time to tie everything up instead of finding every contrivance in the book to drag it out for two more unnecessary seasons.
I don’t know what to say about Dollhouse. I loved Buffy and Angel and hated Firefly but I’ve always, always thought that the studios and networks treat Whedon’s work extremely unfairly and never let him make the show he truly wants to make (except for the WB, which let him make Buffy and Angel on his own terms and not how they thought he should make them). He deserves a chance to prove what he can really do. On the other hand, Dollhouse never seemed like a good premise for a showe. The great thing about Buffy and Angel was that even if you weren’t a scifi/fantasy buff, their premises were clear and universal and anyone could relate to the metaphor of high school and college and life being a virtual hell. Dollhouse will never be that accessible to the audience like that.
Ghost Whisperer and all Cbs shows were re runs
Gotta give Fox credit, their only problem night on the schedule is Friday night and they have been constant airing all new episodes.
They did their best and did a good amount of promotion, even having both lead females host the night in the 1st weeks, they tried their best and it didn’t work.
I thought that the night would be soft but not a dud, SCIFI channle has aired new shows on this night for years and they have found success, CBS has as well, NBC up until the last season or so, ABC until they idioticly ended TGIF…..Fox may need to try SciFI Friday for another season, it worked in the past with Sliders/X-Files/Millenium.
Fox can continue to work on their schedule 1/2 a year ago who would of thought that Thur Bones/Hell Kitchen combo would be a great combo for the net.
OMG 3.38 FOR PRISON BREAK IM SHOCKED AND BUMMED OUT
The problem is not the day but the shows and that’s especially true for Terminator and Prison Break. Even when you take into account lower expectations because it’s a Friday Terminator, Prison Break and Dollhouse all performed or are performing badly. And in the cases of Prison Break and Terminator this is just a continuation of the poor performances they gave on Monday nights.
Would all three shows achieve higher numbers on another night? Probably. But would those numbers be so much higher that they change the renewal prospect of each show? Probably not and absolutely not for the already cancelled before it moved to Friday Prison Break.
The only show of the three that can really make the ‘another night of the week’ argument is Dollhouse purely because that’s the only show that hasn’t aired and bombed anywhere else. But even then I think the argument for Dollhouse is incredibly thin. Lets not forget that this is a show that debuted with a 2.0 a healthy number for a Friday night. Had it retained that number or only dropped a tenth I suspect people would now be predicting renewal for it, the problem is it didn’t, it dropped down to a 1.4 instead and even on a Friday that’s bad.
It has since its debut dropped what, 30% of its audience? So lets say that it debuted on Monday and pulled a respectable but not phenomenal 3.0 it would now be down to a 2.1 had it dropped 30% of its audience. If it debuted with a 3.5 it would now be down to about 2.4. Dollhouse’s problem is that its on a Friday its that its lost 30% of its audience since its debut and chances are it would have done that wherever you put it, because regardless of the day you air it those first episodes were horrible.
Its also worth pointing out that it would have faced off with much stiffer competition every other day of the week and been given much less rope on another day of the week. Had (as was originally planned) Dollhouse served as lead-in for 24 it would have been yanked from the schedule by now or ironically enough shipped to Friday nights. There’s no way Fox lets a show dropping 30% of its audience (unless it was a big audience to begin with) lead into the returning 24 because chances are it would be having a negative effect on 24 as well.
I should also point out that chances are had you put Dollhouse on another night of the week it would have lost more than 30% of its audience.
Prison Break is a fantastic show, but for a serial that’s on its fourth year, it’s only expected that it’s lost a ton of viewers along the way.
Who really cares what its ratings are, though, since it’s ending and it will get a proper conclusion, since the writers had approached this season as the last one going in. All this last run will determine is whether Fox will go with a Cherry Hill/Dollhouse pairing in the fall or just give up on Friday nights altogether, and I could care less about seeing Cherry Hill or more Dollhouse.
We’ll see how the ratings for PB do for the rest of its run, though, since a premiere with a rerun for its lead-in probably isn’t the best indicator overall. I don’t expect it to do great, but I do expect it to do better than this.
Mumbo I find it increasingly unlikely that Fox will let a Prison Break spin-off on the air and I didn’t think it was likely to begin with.
I think the ratings for Prison Break are very important. Obviously not too much when considering the future of the show because it’s ending anyway. But if Prison Break had scored some average ratings this week it might have been easier to say “Ok, people just aren’t interested in Dollhouse or Terminator so they aren’t watching” That didn’t happen – Prison Break tanked. Personally with all 3 shows being very low rated on Friday I see the day of the week being the problem. Yes, they were moved to Friday due to low ratings on other days but I would have thought the die hard fans of Prison Break would carry over to Friday just because this is the beginning of the end of the show. Where did everyone go? The last new show of Prison Break had just under 5 million. I really cannot imagine that the difference in viewer numbers is due to fans just walking away at this stage. If there were Friday viewers out there willing to get involved with serial shows I feel at least one of the 3 would have done something meaningful.
I agree with you Alex, I never thought a Prison Break spin-off was on the cards. It just seemed like too much of the same thing. I love Prison Break but I don’t think I’d even want that to happen.
Shelly you are absolutely correct!PB is past ridiculous now too,from the bad plotline to bringing back from the “dead” a useless character like Sara that was just plain stupid! The show turned into a hot mess very dumb and not entertaning at all.I am not watching it anymore that’s how uniteresting it has become— PB Sucks!!!!!!
it stinks more. (“
Fox should just make Fridays “Game Show Night”, they are cheap and can be good.
I think FOX shot themselves in the foot.
Seriously did anyone get the idea from the Prison Break adverts that it would be a rerun followed by a new episode?
How many people tuned in and said “this is a rerun!” and left? We don’t really know.
It should be interesting to see if DOLLHOUSE grows next week or falters. If it grows it makes things interesting.
Actually PRISON BREAK: THE GRETCHEN MORGAN FILES is still planned.
You know, at the end the ratings don’t matter anymore for Prison Break. The show has been canceled and unlike TSCC and many other shows, the show will get a proper ending because the producers knew this was going to be the last season for a while.
I’m not going to worry anymore about the ratings because i’m sure FOX will broadcast the remaining episodes. They can only learn from placing shows on a Friday.
Prison Break started with around 11 million viewers in season 1, 10 million in season 2, 7.5 million in season 3, only this season has been bad actually with 5.5 million viewers (and now 3.3). People tend to make a drama about the ratings of Prison Break, but the first two seasons (even the third) were pretty good.
“if you were to put TSCC after American Idol on Wednesday, and DH after American Idol on I think Tuesday”
Yeah, that is going to happen. Is this sarcasm as well? Joss’s Biggest Fan?
http://uk.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b119358_sneak_peeks_prison_break_returns_final.html Last question
What’s the plan for the Prison Break spinoff?
There is no plan for a Prison Break spinoff.
melbye, I suggest reading the whole answer. He admits the project is still kicking, in fact it has gone from being called CHERRY HILL to the name I mentioned, and FOX is talking about it.
What would happen if they put American Idol on Friday Nights? That would be an interesting experiment.
Nick I think perhaps you’re over stating his answer a little.
“There is no plan for a Prison Break spinoff. We did a script for what would be establishing a character in season three, a female character and then getting her off into essentially a female prison show. [But] that project cooled. [It's not completely dead, though]. It’s on the ground, legs twitching, but you know there’s still a heartbeat perhaps.”
That’s not exactly a confidence inspiring answer.
As it stands I’d think there would be even less chance of the show getting on air with Prison Break anywhere in its title, let alone with a generally horrible title like Prison Break: The Gretchen Morgan Files.
AC fans have been walking away from Prison Break for at least two seasons now, which is why its ending its run on Friday nights not Mondays. I agree that the switch to Friday can be blamed for some of the drop but not all of it.
In regards to Prison Break’s numbers being a sign that shows just don’t work on Fridays I disagree. Again Dollhouse isn’t in trouble because its on Friday, its in trouble because its lost 30% of its audience. Dollhouse debuted with a 2.0 if it stays there or in that range then it gets renewed but it didn’t. Dollhouse is in trouble even with a lower expectation on Friday nights.
PRISON BREAK: THE GRETCHEN MORGAN FILES is such a bad title it sounds like a Joss Whedon show name.
Yay, more Whedon jokes… can’t get enough of those. Because he’s the enemy. Destroy Joss Whedon and all his blasted shows! Bring on more Wife Swap!
Just to fuel the fire here IMDB does actually have a page for Prison Break: The Gretchen Morgan Files…
was last nights ghost whisperer the one with hilary duff??
Sam I believe last weeks Ghost Whisperer guest starred Hillary Duff, I don’t know whether this week was a repeat of that episode or not though.
And Budo I prefer a good reality show to a bad scripted show and so far on the whole Dollhouse has been a bad scripted show. Not that I’m saying Wife Swap is a good reality show I just think the reality is the enemy/scripted is great mentality is way off.
If Friday was the problem, Flashpoint wouldn’t regularly get 9 million viewers for new episodes (last night was a rerun). And Ghost Whisperer usually gets 10 million for a new episode. Both are 1 hour scripted dramas with fairly “dark” themes.
If Dollhouse were beating everything else in the time slot and Fox were complaining because it was too expensive then, yes, you could say it was the night. Because it’s a smaller pie than M-Th. So you could argue for moving it. But Dollhouse has consistently come in 3rd or 4th in the demo against the other shows in the exact same timeslot.
And if you run a new episode of Cops or Don’t Forget the Lyrics, or a rerun of House, in the exact same Friday night timeslot, they get more viewers in the demo than Dollhouse does. It’s not just that they’re cheaper shows–they’re cheaper shows that attract more viewers. Again, not a Friday issue.
I don’t know why people aren’t watching Dollhouse, but the problem it has is that no matter how you look at the numbers, with DVR, without DVR, in the 18-34s, in the 18-49s, among men, among women–most people are watching something else.
Figuring out why that is is much more important than arguing for a change in day in terms of keeping the show on the air.
@Alex: While I am a Whedon fan, I keep watching Dollhouse because it is good, and because it can be oh so much better. Last episode was one of the best episodes of anything I’ve seen in a while. And that had horrible ratings. That says more about what the people want and can handle right now than anything else.
Basically, the most creative, fun, interesting and challenging shows from the past few years have been canceled because people who “matter” didn’t care and didn’t watch. The system is rotten, and loads of great television isn’t being made because it’s not profitable enough. Whedon is one of the few people who is actively working towards an alternative, and if the cancellation of another one of his shows is what it takes to make him give up on the networks, so be it.
Budo said:
Basically, the most creative, fun, interesting and challenging shows from the past few years have been canceled because people who “matter” didn’t care and didn’t watch. The system is rotten, and loads of great television isn’t being made because it’s not profitable enough. Whedon is one of the few people who is actively working towards an alternative, and if the cancellation of another one of his shows is what it takes to make him give up on the networks, so be it.
Yeah, well Fringe is one of the most innovative and fun shows to come out in a long time. And, it’s pretty successful (even in the last half hour) and it’s getting a 2nd season.
I’ll wait for the DVD’s like many other people that I know. Prison Break is fine and i’m glad it’s end with a high quality.
@ThePattern: I disagree completely. While I do watch Fringe, being a SciFi fan and supportive of the good stuff they’ve done, it’s highly flawed and nowhere near Dollhouse in terms of… pretty much anything not budget related. The last episode was a perfect example of that. I hope it goes back to what’s most promising about it and that is the whole multiverse “big picture”, because the “creature of the week” was done way better by X-Files years ago.
In fact, Fringe reminds of the X Files in writing quality. I thought this last week’s creature of the week was pretty good, actually.
Marty118, except this season the FOX game shows have not done as well as DOLLHOUSE has been doing. Both the game shows have lost a significant amount of their audience from previous seasons. Also this season they tested COPS, HOUSE, and LIE TO ME all on Friday. DOLLHOUSE numbers are still better than those.
DOLLHOUSE makes more money than the game shows and COPS. DOLLHOUSE is expected to do well on DVD. The game shows bring in no money on DVD. Also DONT FORGET THE LYRICS is an expensive game show (do to the rights of music).
DOLLHOUSE is on the bubble because it’s doing well enough and for FOX it’s doing surprisingly almost decent for Fridays. Compare it to other scripted shows that have aired on Friday and for FOX it’s a soft success.
The question has always been will it trend back up. Has it bottomed out? We find out what one week off does for the show. Usually it’s not a great sign. We’ll see.
Plus, the critics (including Maureen Ryan of the Chicago Tribune) like Fringe now.
Nick C., why don’t they consider putting Dollhouse on another night, pairing it with Fringe or a great lead-in like House or American Idol on Wednesday night?
I don’t watch PB but I have a friend or two who are die hard fans, so I’m sad for them their show isn’t doing well. However, it’s ending no matter what this season, so it’s really irrelevant. I assume the show is still doing well creatively because people that generally agree with me on preferences say they are still into it. I put less stock into the opinion of anonymous internet posters
I am happy though that there is more objective evidence that there just isn’t a Friday night audience. The heavily promoted PB return lost half its audience. I understand this is a serial that is pretty hard to follow if you jump in the middle, so I assume the only people watching the last batch of episodes were the serious fans. Losing half that number in the move to Friday, despite heavy promotion during 24 and other shows that should have similar fandoms, just means that Friday is the problem, not the show.
If you’re wondering why TSCC and Dollhouse fans are rejoicing over PB’s low numbers, then you’re an idiot. You shouldn’t be wondering. Those fans have been waiting for proof that their shows are underperforming because of the night, not because of the shows. This is as much proof as you should need.
Fox has a couple of options. Keep running scripted shows on Friday for a couple years to build an audience, or go back to reality dreck. If they go with the latter, smart executives will know that their current Friday night shows have potential on other nights. Fox isn’t swimming in drama pilots at the moment (unlike ABC which has 30+ pilots ready to replace Castle, sadly).
Really, if you’re a ratings whore and all you care about is the live eyeballs 18-49 for the cheapest cost, then you wouldn’t have any scripted dramas running whatsoever. Why would any station run any scripted shows besides maybe House and CSI anymore? Fox could just run 10 hours of American Idol 52 weeks a year and do much better for much, much cheaper. Obviously there are other points where decisions are made, like licensing, syndication, DVD sales, product placement, and so on.
Considering that TSCC sometimes got better ratings than PB, it’s hard to figure that putting in PB as a lead in for DollHouse would make a difference.
Welcome to Fridays Prison Break!!!!
Mail FOX and let them know that shows would be watched on other days!!! If they are concerned with money, then they should count online viewers more!
FOX Broadcasting
Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles
10201 W. Pico Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90035
“If they are concerned with money, then they should count online viewers more!”
how exactly are you planning on making online viewers=money?
makes no sense…
The fridays pb episode was one of the best in the entire season…i cant understand you american people…this show is getting better and better
@ThePattern – *I* like Fringe (and Mo Ryan, but that’s irrelevant), but I have no illusions about its overall quality. If it was any less accessible (= original), it would suffer the fate of the shows we keep talking about here. I just don’t want TV without at least a decent SciFi show on.
And Prison Break should have ended years ago. My girlfriend was a HUGE fan in S1, and has translated each episode into our language (I’m from Europe) as they came out, the same day. S2 was such a disappointment, she never bothered with it again.
Wow big shock another show’s moved to Friday and in the crapper it goes. Let’s be realistic very few shows survive on Friday’s. It’s like firing at the dart board with your eyes closed.
People who are doing mail campaigns are idiots. Just encourage people to watch on shit like Hulu and buy it on Playstation Network/Itunes/XBOXLive!. Luckily for Dollhouse, it’s been in the top10 sales every week on PSN & Itunes. Yes, it’s not huge $$ but it’s a sign that there is an audience, and Fox gets a cut so it matters.
As to the ratings: I freaking called it. I got virtually heckled in the other thread when I said about a 1.2. I was -DEAD- right. This was a new episode vs. repeats everywhere else. Meanwhile Dollhouse has been pulling 1.6 after the numbers all calc’d against new eps.
Is that good? No, but it’s a tick better then “Are You Smarter Then a Fifth Grader” and a damn bit better then Prison Break… does it increase it’s chance of getting covered? Maybe a little. It sure as hell doesn’t hurt it.
I love that Prison Break tanked and got worse ratings than T:SCC. Everyone who blamed TSCC for Dollhouse’s had ratings and wanted PB put back on even earlier – well they’re just lucky that they didn’t get their wish since I’m guessing that Dollhouse’s numbers would be even worse than they are.
I don’t understand why people are saying now that did Prison Break bad, Dollhouse has a better chance at renewal. Prison Break was going to be cancelled anyways. How does that change whats going to happen to Dollhouse? All it means is that Dollhouse will go lower next week with Prison Break as a lead in.
NickC,
You are right, of course, on the DVD revenue. But I was definitely looking at this season’s Friday numbers.
Don’t Forget the Lyrics bounces around a bit, but it’s been equal to or higher than Dollhouse in the demo just about every time it aired this season, while also being higher in total households. The December numbers were low, but they’re low for everything.
The last time Don’t Forget the Lyrics aired in late January, it had a 1.7 in the demo and 5.99 overall.
I don’t know what the costs are for Don’t Forget the Lyrics, but Fox’s other unscripted fare has generally done even better.
So I’m going to stand by my original statement that the unscripted stuff generally costs less and brings in more viewers even in the demo than Dollhouse does.
(You didn’t mention foreign rights, but I’d guess that’s one of the few areas where something like Dollhouse would be head and shoulders above any game show. Good for the studio, but doesn’t bring in anything for Fox television per se.)
I think if Fox keeps Dollhouse for a second season, it will be about brand, not numbers. Stranger things have happened, so I wouldn’t bet against it. But it’s a strange business.
Here, the numbers pulled from this site’s reports so they’re comparing apples to apples. (If the dates are for a Saturday, it just means I goofed and picked up the article date instead of the show date, but these are all Friday overnights.):
04/10/09
9:00 FOX Dollhouse 1.4/4 3.56
04/03/09
9:00 FOX Dollhouse 1.4/5 3.49
2/07/09
8:30 FOX Cops (R) 4.67 1.5/5
9:00 FOX America’s Most Wanted 4.62 1.5/4
1/24/09
9:00 FOX Don’t Forget the Lyrics 5.99 1.7/5
1/17/09
9:00 FOX Don’t Forget the Lyrics 4.84 1.3/4
12/19/08
9:00 FOX Don’t Forget the Lyrics 4.72 1.2/3
12/13/08
9:00 FOX Don’t Forget the Lyrics 5.76 1.4/5
12/06/08
9:00 FOX Don’t Forget the Lyrics 5.19 1.5/5
11/22/08
9:00 FOX Don’t Forget the Lyrics 5.75 1.6/5
11/15/08
9:00 FOX Don’t Forget the Lyrics 5.12 1.6/5
11/08/08
9:00 FOX Don’t Forget the Lyrics 4.93 1.6/5
“Things may look bad for everyone else, but Fox also improved its performance over a year ago by more than a million viewers on average.
11/01/08 (vs an NCIS repeat that swallowed everything in its path)
9:00 FOX Don’t Forget the Lyrics 4.56 1.3/5
10/25/08
9:00 FOX Don’t Forget the Lyrics 5.56 1.6/5
10/18/08 (yes, this is for a rerun of an unscripted show)
9:00 FOX Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader (R) 5.50 1.5/5
10/11/08
9:00 FOX Don’t Forget the Lyrics 4.87 1.4/5
I predicted PB would do better than TSCC. Boy, was I wrong!
That’s just abysmal. A show finally beat TSCC for lousy ratngs!
Seems to give some impetus to the notion that nobody watches TV on Friday. But then you still have to explain Ghost Whisperer which has many 18-49 viewers as well as older viewers.
And I agree, next week’s Dollhouse ratings are likely to go down, maybe by a lot.
xaxa… Julia, I didn’t know that…
ok, friday is a waste for FOX. next year i recommend reality on friday so that they dont lose as much money.
@ Richard Steven Hack. I’m not a TSCC fan before you accuse me of that. I noticed if there is an article concerning TSCC you’re immediately all over it like stank on crap. Since I’ve been coming to this site I’ve never seen a more vindictive poster than you when it comes to a show. You even say you’re a fan of the show (????) but all you do is rant on it and every rant is the same all over again.
And then I see you making suggestion of how the show should be and you want a Hulk themed show with Cameron in the role of Bruce Banner or something? Don’t get me wrong , I adore Summer Glau and I think she has huge potential but come on! Are you crazy?
I think you should take your pills. Like the leaked script and now with PB ratings you once again shot your mouth off.
I know you’re gonna read this and react because you’re obsessed and you wanna read about TSCC and try to flame me but I don’t care.
About the ratings, PB did horribly. I expected it but it’s gonna hurt Dollhouse now. I hope that odesn’t happen as I kinda like that show.
Fringe is not what I expected it to be. I thought it was gonna be incredible because of Abrams but I’m not watching anymore. A waste of my time.
Look, stupid, if you can’t grasp that somebody originally liked the show and thought it had tremendous potential and it was the only show he’s watched for years before, and then it went into the toilet, which pissed him off, then you’re dumber than your posts indicate.
It’s the same as you and Fringe. I wanted the show to be awesome, instead it went into the toilet.
So I’m pissed off. Can you comprehend that?
I also did not say the show should anything like you describe. That’s a completely different show that WOULD do better than the real TSCC. It’s not the Terminator show I want to see but it is one that would be better than what Friedman produced.
“If you’re wondering why TSCC and Dollhouse fans are rejoicing over PB’s low numbers, then you’re an idiot. You shouldn’t be wondering. Those fans have been waiting for proof that their shows are underperforming because of the night, not because of the shows. This is as much proof as you should need.”
Sigh. How many times are we going to have to listen to this argument? Unfortunately no matter how many times its made it doesn’t become true.
People who complain that the move to Friday killed Terminator tend to forget how horrible the show was performing on Monday. Terminator ended up on Friday for its back nine because it absolutely bombed on Mondays. Fans also forget that Terminator its two seasons bleeding viewers on an almost weekly basis. The move to Friday did not kill TSCC, it was dead long before it arrived on Friday nights. Anyone who believes that Fox is going to look at Prison Break’s numbers (another show that bombed on Monday and got put on Friday to wrap) and decide that Terminator was in fact a success is insane.
As far as Dollhouse goes I’d be prepared to listen to the arguments that it was the night killing the show if it hadn’t debuted with strong (for a Friday) numbers and then lost 30% of its audience. It scored a 2.0 for its debut, again I say if it stays there or close to that then we’re all talking about season two of Dollhouse right now the problem is that it didn’t. This theory that people don’t watch because its a Friday isn’t right – they did watch, didn’t like what they saw and turned off.
Friday is not killing these shows its the shows and if they were on any other night of the week they’d still be facing the axe.
“Considering that TSCC sometimes got better ratings than PB, it’s hard to figure that putting in PB as a lead in for DollHouse would make a difference.”
I’m really not convinced that’s true. Not this season at least.
Taking into account Live+SD numbers of the demo, I have Dollhouse at a 1.58 season average. That’s 79% of the premiere rating, so it lost 21%, not 30%. I think losing about 20% is what any average show does, no matter what day or timeslot. I could be wrong about that, but I think I read here on this site that that drop is quite normal and to be expected.
Nick C, marty118, and others in the “Dollhouse is doing well/poorly for Friday nights” discussions:
By the numbers, it appears that recent episodes of Dollhouse are performing any better than DFTL, or repeats of House or LTM. When FOX tested those two shows on Fridays, they tested repeats. When FOX tested Cops on Friday, it was a repeat. If a scripted show’s new episodes cannot perform significantly better than (a) a game show, or (b) a repeat of a more stable show, then I don’t see how FOX can justify renewing the scripted show in question. If Dollhouse somehow manages to trend up to the point that it makes more sense than both (a) and (b) above, then Dollhouse will have a chance. I seriously don’t see that happening.
Wiesengrund, as clutz just said, recent episodes are performing very poorly. The past six episodes have an average of 1.48, which is down 26%, and the past four episodes average 1.45, down 27.5%. Closer to 30% than 20%.
Shouldn’t fox renew shows like chuck for fridays and put in that time?
Chuck isn’t on FOX.
Julia, sure the last episode were below it’s season average, but singling them out seems kinda arbitrary to me. I mean, Lie to Me pulling a 2.5 last week against it’s 5.2 of the premiere had noone screaming that it is trouble. I think season averages are a better indicator of the prospects of a show than just looking at their weakest weeks. I think TV by the numbers is generally also thinking along similar lines.
I’m certainly screaming trouble for Lie to Me. It won’t be canceled due to it, but it’s definitely concerning, and FOX would be wise to only give it a 13 episode order to see how it performs in the fall.
When the weakest episodes are all the recent ones, it’s important. The series has trended down, and it doesn’t appear to be going up at all. If it does, you can start talking about season averages again, but for now the important thing is how it has consistently performed poorly in recent weeks.
I agree with Julia. There’s no question that Lie to Me will be back next fall, but its latest numbers have not only been mediocre, they have been headed in the wrong direction.
How about Fringe standing on its own merits on Fridays and give Dollhouse a shot at the after Idol spot?
(Yeah, it will get killed by the Mentalist — nevermind . . . .)
P.S. Bill, I really like Lie to Me — but I have not been able to figure out when the heck its on — Fox changes the schedule seemingly at the drop of a hat and I admit — I can’t keep up. They should appreciate Bones more than they do — it seems to play no matter where they put it.
Is this the anniversary of some vicious schoolyard melee or some crazed despot’s birthday or something? I’ve never seen so many good nerves gone bad. This has been a bad day for me so I’ve been watching, ta da, tv … matrix then the second coming sopranos and got tired of waiting for idiocracy. even watched some people i politically don’t like on some morning news show and saw they both had good points. tv as pacifier is still better than tv as hate machine out of Orwell. BTW, i never give out the names of other websites on here but lots of interesting news about the incipient shakedowns at all three well even all four networks. NBC first quarter losses: a staggering 35-40% That figure cuts through the smoke and mirrors. I wouldn’t be surprised if ABC and CBS are also way down, but not by that much. Pace, pace, sorori et fraterni.
Lie to Me is still looking great on the Renew/Cancel index:
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/04/07/dollhouse-foreclosure-likely/16221
and Fox’s announcement that it will air it in repeats this summer is either another test or a sign of confidence, but in either case it’s a very different situation than Dollhouse.
Of course one of the interesting things is that one of the metrics where the day DOES hurt a show badly is the Renew/Cancel index, since it’s just looking at total viewers.
I know it would be twice as much work, so I don’t expect it to be done, but it would be interesting at least at the end of the season to see if doing the Renew/Cancel index based on share rather than viewers changed any of the predictions.
Because Lie to Me gets beautiful Share (which is a relative number, so the size of the total pie doesn’t affect it)–anywhere from 8 to 12, even on nights when it either airs before American Idol or Idol doesn’t air at all.
I don’t believe Dollhouse has ever had Share higher than 5 in any episode since the premiere. Certainly its average must be between 4 and 5.
Share doesn’t tell you how much money a show can make (it’s still generally more lucrative to have a smaller share and more eyeballs on a different night), but it does tell you how a show is doing against its competition from other networks. It gives you bragging rights and great press releases and helps a network’s branding. That doesn’t pay the bills, but it is an important part of the overall business plan.
The other issue with Dollhouse’s trends is that Whedon himself did the whole “the first 5 episodes were baby steps” campaign to relaunch the series with the-mythical-episode-6. New screeners were sent to critics in the hopes of building new buzz. The big conference call and a decent amount of press. Tons of internet chatter, for what that’s worth. So it was Whedon himself who asked that episodes 6+ be evaluated differently. And as a Parisian acquaintance says about fashion: “The trend, she was not friendly to him.”
marty128, the Renew/Cancel Index works off the 18-49 adult viewership (which is proportional to the rating) not total viewers, which are meaningless. In terms of Lie to Me, as I often am, do not be deceived by the fact that the R/C Index uses seasonal averages. Lie to Me numbers are down lately, and that certainly matters, but it is not well reflected in the Index. Still, it’s done plenty well enough to come back next fall.
Bill,
Yes, I understand it’s just the viewers in the key demo, but it’s still looking at the total number of those viewers and then averaging them, right?
So a show that’s on Wednesdays, in 3rd place, with 3 million viewers in the demo will look better on the index than a show that’s on Fridays in 1st place with 2.5 million in the demo. Which is why Ghost Whisperer always using using using scores low on the Renew/Cancel index. Or am I confused?
Here’s an example. Ghost Whisperer vs Criminal Minds.
My understanding is that the Renew/Cancel index (which I find very helpful, btw), will consistently rank Criminal Minds as the stronger show. But I think this is one of the few situations where the day of the week does make a difference.
F CBS Ghost Whisperer 2.5/9 (1st)
W CBS Criminal Minds 3.4/8 (3rd)
The index itself says: “Friday night – Friday is quickly becoming an 18-49 wasteland, so these shows may be allowed a lower threshold for success than shows on other nights.”
I’m just suggesting that it would be interesting, particularly for Friday night shows, to at some point look at how they would rank if share were used instead of viewer count. But I know it would be a lot of work.
When will we see the Saturday ratings? I am curious as to how Kings did.
This was the first episode of Kings I literally couldn’t finish.
But what do I know, seeing as how things with viewership seem to work, it might have had huge ratings, and the network “uncancels” it as a result?! :0
Seriously, what a waste of concept…
Saturday ratings were here. Apparently Budo was not alone:
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/04/19/saturday-ratings-nascar-sprint-cup-beats-slow-field/
Richard Steven Hack said
It’s the same as you and Fringe. I wanted the show to be awesome, instead it went into the toilet.
I completely disagree with you on that, Richard. Just look at episode 14 Ability. That was a great episode. And the last two have pretty good too.
The fans of TSSC did not
turn out for the Finale
………….R.I.P………….
…Cameron Phillips……
…….2029-2009……….
Of all the souls I have encountered in my travels,
hers was the least… human.”
I was to disappointed when dollhouse was not on
it got me off guard. Clearly everyone else knew except for me,,,lol
Yes i agree Fridays is a death trap for fox…i wold like to see American idol on Fridays just to see what happens….
“…but anyone who was hoping Prison Break was going to be a better lead-in for Dollhouse than Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles has now given up that ghost!”
So they’ve died? That’s what “giving up the ghost” means…
Haha, Brandon. The thought has died, not (hopefully) the people who’d had the thought.
Can we stop the direct attacks on T:TSCC/Dollhouse fans? It’s coming across as petty.
Case in point:
…”the mentality is crazy. a well-adjust person would just say, “that sucks, it didn’t perform well” and move on. But I don’t think we’re talking about well-adjusted people. With some, it’s like they attach their own self-worth to the performances of their shows, and when those shows don’t perform well…”
I don’t see how that kind of conjecture is necessary. As for the “rejoicing” that another show bombed; I’m not seeing that. I assumed this was a talk about the numbers forum, either to be spun positive or negative, not a “let’s bash the fans and make jokes about their mental stability”.
ThePattern: You misunderstood me. I wasn’t talking about Fringe, I was talking about TSCC. Fringe has been consistently good all season. I was comparing my dislike of TSCC as it went into the toilet with Dan’s dislike of Fringe as HE thinks it went into the toilet. I disagree with him and agree with you – Fringe is good.
JustTunedIn: I have to agree with the quoted characterization in the case of SOME fans, not all fans. There are some fans who simply dismiss any possibility that the show they like could possibly fail in the ratings due to its own merits – it has to be the day, the time slot, the network, the stupidity of the rest of the viewing audience, a holiday, an obscure religious holiday, a movie opening the same night, sunspots, whatever.
Anything and everything but the fact that their show might actually have some problems in terms of itself – the premise, the focus, the pacing, the acting, the directing, the plots – or it simply never caught on for any of a million unknown social reasons.
Some people believe that if you criticize a show they like, you’re criticizing them by implication. And they react very violently to that. They accuse you of having a vendetta against their show, of being biased, of being a troll deliberating baiting them, etc. And like most disproportionate emotional reactions, it tends to both cause that exact behavior from them and also attracts that exact behavior from others who enjoy that sort of thing and see these people as vulnerable.
Not all fans of a show are like that. But some are. You can’t dismiss it.
People need to remember that not every show that’s “good” by some more or less “objective” measurement (if there are any) survives, and not every show that’s “bad” by those measurements gets canceled.
Broadcast television is Darwinian survival at its clearest. Do you match the environment, whatever it is? Maybe you’ll survive. If not, you won’t – regardless of how “good” you are in some other contexts.
Richard, I’m sorry if I misunderstood you!
RSH: I don’t mind people criticizing the show, or ciriticizing a posters spin on the numbers (i.e. debunking all those reasons that might account for lower viewing).
“Some people believe that if you criticize a show they like, you’re criticizing them by implication. And they react very violently to that. They accuse you of having a vendetta against their show, of being biased, of being a troll deliberating baiting them, etc.”
I see a lot more people here taking pot shots at the personality/mentality of these posters than these posters complaining about being trolled. Does my request that the pot shots stop classify me in this category? Anyway, I came to this site to see the ratings for T:TSCC and wonder what the options for the show were, despite the ratings (ie. if moving to another channel might save it). I realize the options are limited or non-existant but that doesn’t mean hoping there is a way out makes me a nut-case.
Anyway the back and forth between Alex and Robert put me over my limit.
JustTunedIn: “I see a lot more people here taking pot shots at the personality/mentality of these posters than these posters complaining about being trolled.”
Go to the Fox wiki and criticize the show. See how long you last without being subjected to very serious insults as I’ve indicated.
I’ve been banned from the Sarah Connor Society because they didn’t like my criticizing the show. The moderator of the Fox wiki had to shut down a thread devoted to insulting me and speculating that I was actually Lanie Grace (over the fake leaked last episode.)
Yes, some of these fans take their shows way too seriously and engage in the behavior I’ve outlined.
I take my favorite show very seriously, too – which is why I was ticked off when Friedman ruined it. But after you hear the same nonsense over and over and get insulted every time you point out that it’s nonsense, you start to get irritated with those people.
I get told over and over again by this people that I “hate” TSCC. I never hated the show. If I hated the show, I wouldn’t have downloaded the pilot (the first pilot, not the one that eventually aired) before the show even aired. I wouldn’t have watched all 31 episodes. I wouldn’t have devoted considerable time and effort to trying to point out where it was going wrong in order to make it better so it would stay on the air and I could keep enjoying it as I did all first season. Not to mention that I love Summer Glau!
So it irritates me when people who cheer led the show as it was going into the ground insult me. It may not be their fault that the show failed – it was Friedman’s – but they didn’t help by not recognizing where the faults were. And cussing me out doesn’t help the show and doesn’t help their case that the show was better than I think it was.
Now on THIS site the problem is that the fact of cancellation is considered almost a given, based on the ratings. Yet most of the fans who come here to comment recite the same reasons over and over why they think the show will be renewed, when those reasons have pretty much been debunked here numerous times. When Robert and Bill and some of us posters re-iterate the reasons, we get called “biased”, we “hate the show”, or in Robert and Bill’s case they’re accused of saying it just to get Web site hits.
It’s not a reasonable response.
The show is over (unless a Sugar Daddy picks up the check). One can argue whether the reason is the handling of the show by Fox, or the merits of the show itself, or that it simply never caught on. My opinion is that the show had faults – that the wider audience came seeking Terminator, saw, then left. And I think if the show comes back for a season 3 by some miracle, with Friedman at the helm, the ratings for the third season will be so abysmal it may set a new record. It will look like Prison Break’s ratings this past Friday…unless Friedman has been pressured to completely revamp the concept in a way that is acceptable to Terminator fans. And it would need one hell of a lot of new promotion to attract the viewers it lost in season 2.
I’ll watch it, though, just to see what happens with it – and because of Summer Glau, if she stays on – even as Allison Young, although I’m not that interested in her playing that part.
I’m sorry if you have been treated poorly on other sites! What was their excuse for banning you? Normally people don’t get banned unless they are being insulting of other posters. I will have to go check those sites out see what was going on but that seems totally unfair if you were being attacked for just criticizing the show!
Still, I’m talking only about this site. I’m used to the rules of conduct of boards such as TWOP.com so maybe I just find the attitude here a little shocking in comparison. I like coming here for the more indepth information about ratings but can’t really tolerate the attitude. I guess I have to toughen up a bit if I want to keep reading articles here.
Anyway, I enjoyed this season. I felt that the show is very much in line with Terminator 2 (ethics/family drama etc.). We obviously tune in for different things (I consider Summer to be one of the weaker actors on the show for example, yet love the idea of Cameron). Was very happy with the way the final turned out instead of that horrible fake spoiler. Ugh, now THAT was bad writing! I’m getting ready to pre-order the Season 2 BlueRay as soon as it becomes available on amazon.ca. Yes things could have improved in the story development but I doubt it would have saved it. Firefly had horrible ratings as well (I think they were actually worse!), and it is much better quality than terminator or dollhouse (IMO) and yet only survived half a season!
Maybe the other numbers about the show (DVD sales, iTunes sales, etc.) are enough to warrant a two hour wrap up TV Movie. But this isn’t the site to discuss it. Really this site should be called TVBYTHELIVERATINGS.com
since all the other numbers don’t seem to matter. LOL.
Question regarding advertising sales and type of shows:
So scripted shows not doing too well for Fox on Fridays. Really it seems most of the reality shows do much better and are cheaper to produce. Does the amount of Reality shows in the lineup vs scripted shows effect the advertising prices? I would imagine that advertisers wouldn’t want to pay as high for advertisements on shows that they know are cheap to produce. Do advertisers pay to be put in specific timeslots (alligned with specific shows) or just to be on the network and the network places them anywhere?
JustTunedIn: This IS the Internet. You can go to sites run by “board Nazis” like the Sarah Connor Society where one sentence that is mildly “off-topic” – by their lights – is instantly moderated out of existence – provided you are perceived as not agreeing with their preferences, of course. Those who do agree magically don’t get so “moderated”.
Or you can deal with the “real” Internet where you have to deal with people who are not only forceful and forthright in their opinions but also sometimes downright hostile.
I respond as I’m treated. I don’t bend over when I’m insulted as some people seem to expect.
Summer one of the weaker actors? Well, to each their own, but she beats the pants off of Dekker, if not Lena. “Allison From Palmdale” should have gotten her an Emmy nomination for portraying not only a Terminator, AND a human, but also a Terminator CHANNELING a human! It was an amazing performance.
I think you’re experiencing the fact that her character was sidelined for most of the season, and thus what she was given to do was either comic relief or act as a pit bull for the Connors. Since she IS acting as a Terminator, which limits her expressiveness (although she does amazing things with a minor facial maneuver), it’s hard to describe what she does as “bad acting”. Even the critics recognize that.
The finale had enormous problems both from a story telling and a sci-fi perspective which I won’t go into here in detail. It had the right pace but a lousy concept. It had the feel of something rushed, crammed, and thrown under a bus in order to try to save the show at the last minute. Contrary to Brian Austin Green’s recent comments, the alternative time line concept they’ve been using is a recipe for story-telling and sci-fi conceptual disaster. Friedman admitted all that crap was his idea. And it’s a really BAD idea. Overusing time travel is a major mistake in sci-fi in almost all cases which is why Cameron never did it in the movies.
RHS strikes again!
Prison Break – A half dozen or so actors FROM MUCH BETTER BUT CANCELED TOO SOON SERIES appear together in a poorly written and far less imaginative series that meanders in no particular direction.
Translation – Studio exec’s had people under contract and decided to do a “Make Work” series since they were getting paid anyway!
Lame. . .
Joss’ Biggest Fan is a douche. What country are your writing from, dude, because your English sucks. Heck, with your language skills you could probably get a job writing on Dullhouse! LULZ.
Here’s the bottom line. Fox would rather put the unscripted stuff on Friday night but they had stupidly bought Dullhouse so they had no other choice to put it on Friday night where it would do the least damage.
I agree with Jack — what was FOX expecting from a series that had been off the air for four months, cancelled and then brought back on Friday night??
The networks have not yet learned how to create a limited premise program (such as “Prison Break” as well as “Parks and Recreation”), run it for 13 episodes or a season or maybe two and then let it go like they do on cable and in the UK. That is what really killed “Prison Break”.
@JustTunedIn: apparently with reality shows there is sometimes less retention (more people change the channel when the ads run) and so I don’t think it’s wanting necessarily pay less for ads on a show that cost less, but that the ad retention and actual commercial viewing do factor in. But a spot in American Idol will still cost more than practically anything else, and I imagine ABC will be able to sell The Bachelor Well, and to a lesser degree, Dancing with The Stars.
Mostly it’s the viewing that matters. We don’t see the commercial viewing rankings but it’s safe to assume Ghost Whisperer makes more on advertising than Supernanny. Without the data, it’s not safe to assume that TSCC and Friday Night Lights charge higher rates simply as a function of higher production costs.
“Don’t Forget the Lyrics bounces around a bit, but it’s been equal to or higher than Dollhouse in the demo just about every time it aired this season, while also being higher in total households. The last time Don’t Forget the Lyrics aired in late January, it had a 1.7 in the demo and 5.99 overall.”
Oh, boy, marty. You’re gonna get it now. Don’t you know nobody on this site wants to hear reason?
Thanks Robert. My question was not really in regards to T:TSCC. It has too low ratings to attract high ad fees. American Idol is really more like a Spectacle Show (like sports) rather than reality (IMO). I wonder what the cost of an episode of American Idol is? It doesn’t seem cheap.
Does anyone know where there is some sort of listing comparing production costs of shows? I know that a couple years ago Top Model was about 800k per show and apprentice was 2million. That might have changed by now, not sure. What is the cost of a scripted 1 hour show?
I agree that Idol is more like a sporting event. But, it’s safe to say The Biggest Loser and Survivor do well for their networks, and reasonably comparable to scripted shows with similar numbers.
I know of no site that shows production costs. the estimates we hear regularly for one hour scripted dramas on broadcast seem to be in a wide range from $1.5 million to $4 million per episode.
Idol is more like a sporting event. Anyway, James Hibberd of The Hollywood Reporter is reporting that Dollhouse has a 50/50 chance of being renewed.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/television/news/e3i9adb8751e5603b1d90c1233925025b29
An episode’s ratings has little to do with the quality of THAT particular episode, but of the episode before it. Nobody knows what’s gonna happen in the next episode of the show, but if the episode they watched the week before was good, then they’re gonna tune in the following week.
The only exception is if it’s greatly hyped or has a big celebrity guest star, but not everybody reads magazine/internet updates.
Prison Break should have been a limited series. Once the characters escaped prison there was no dramatic justification for the show to continue. The writers seemed to acknowledge this when they sent their characters back to the big house in season 3. Time to wrap this sucker up.
Yep I 100% agree. On few sites I participate on I’ve been saying since September that this needs to be the final season to let the show go out with some dignity. As opposed to the networks trying to drag on a dead story. Frankly I thought the show was a bit played out after the first 2 seasons.