Dollhouse returns tonight for the first of its last three* episodes of the season. How will it do? Some fans suggested that Prison Break would prove to be a better lead-in for Dollhouse than Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. It’s hard to make a strong case for that based on last week’s return of Prison Break, but we’ll see.
With only three weeks remaining, the numbers suggest that the Dollhouse will be torn down after only one season. There’s a lot of chitter-chatter of renewal hope, but the numbers don’t suggest a reason for such hope. Not even factoring in Fridays. Now, there are a lot of people, who say you can’t look exclusively at the numbers, and that other things like DVR viewing, online viewing and DVD sales factor in. There’s not a lot of data to suggest that the DVR viewing and online viewing actually do matter in the renewal decisions for Dollhouse (or any other show, at this point).
Our experience has been that in terms of show renewal decisions, particularly for one hour scripted dramas, those numbers haven’t changed the outcomes any. I do believe that DVD sales are an important component, but when coupled with the TV numbers, those DVD sales would need to be very robust. We’ve seen the DVR numbers and I’ve looked at them thoroughly, and even on the basis of DVR increases, Dollhouse doesn’t have much of case for renewal. I haven’t seen online data directly, but from what I hear while “not nothing”, it won’t likely play into any renewal decision.
For now, it looks like the only way the show will be renewed is if the TV viewing goes up for the last few episodes or FOX is very confident in brisk DVD sales.
Sadly, neither outcome seems likely to me, and it’s too bad because I particularly enjoyed the last episode (two weeks ago). I would need to see the adults 18-49 rating grow to a 1.6 before even starting to get excited and the prior trend doesn’t suggest such growth is likely. I don’t see Prison Break being any better of a lead-in for the Dollhouse (though likely no worse).
Last time out, Dollhouse had a 1.4 adults 18-49 rating. I’d look for tonight to be in the 1.3-1.4 range. I’m not sure being off the air for the week helped it any, but Joss Whedon has a loyal following so I wouldn’t expect it to drop much either. I hope I’m wrong and it goes up, but that doesn’t seem a likely outcome.
*As everyone pretty much knows at this point, there is a fourth episode, to make a total of 13 for the season but FOX has elected not to air that as a part of this season’s run, and so far hasn’t backed down on that.
How will it do?
Better than Chuck…..but that ain’t saying much.
(KIDDING!)
I’m saying it holds steady with a 1.4, which isn’t good news but at least it isn’t a drop, right?
Personally I’m slightly more interested to see how Prison Break does at 8 after last weeks disastrous return. Of course I’m also not in the least bit looking forward to the Friday over night post because no doubt the Terminator fans will crawl out of the woodwork when Prison Break doesn’t do any better than TSCC. Of course if there’s a God Prison Break will do better…
Cool! A new new reason for another Chuck thread! >:)~
I’m going with 1.3. Better than Prison Break last week, but worse than Dollhouse two weeks ago.
Again someone mentioned Chuck! CHUCK is fuc*** stupid series! Let it be canceled! Oh God please!!!! Only ’cause of you, stupid annoying fans. If you like that show than watch it assholes!
I’ll say this now – if Dollhouse drops again this week it has to be completely dead if it isn’t already.
According to a FOX relative of mine, FOX executives are basically a little confused on a few shows.
Terminator word is, is a goner
Dollhouse actually has a chance with an uptick in viewers like a 1.8 would probably let them look into renewal.
Lie To Me – Fine
Bones – FIne
Better than Prison Break
Ha, Dollhouse wishes it had Chuck’s numbers.
Robert, you mentioned that online the show isn’t horrible but its not enough to make a difference. Is there any show which it has made a difference to?
Also: Have you compared the DVR data to the data for torrent downloads? While only a few of them (those released by networks) have ads built in, and none in the U.S., high torrent numbers could indicate an ability to sell the show abroad, and international distribution has been given as part of the reason for the continuation of certain shows such as Heroes.
Dario, don’t freak out ™. It is pretty obvious that anonymous might have said this on purpose to get similar reaction. And it worked.
….and if Prison Break drops some – one executive wants to take it off before it finishes. This probably wont happen,considering most executives understsand Prison Break is in its fourth season…..Fans would be outraged with no closure
FOXplanner the chances of any reasonable person at FOX thinking Dollhouse could tick up to a 1.8 live+SD rating with adults 18-49 seems even more unlikely than Bill recanting his opinion of the renewal prospects for CW’s Privileged (read as less than zero!).
Based on the across the board lower numbers for last night – I think the TV audience has checked out for the summer. I would say that all of the Friday shows will be down again, including Dollhouse.
Dollhouse is the one show where a second season, with all the introductory stuff and a strong finish behind it in S1, would grow immensely. It’s sad how many shows in the past started “working” and became classics only after a couple of years but it’s a cutthroat world out there now.
I honestly hope the last few episodes are as kickass as they promised (if they’re lake the last one, awesome), and people tune in on word of mouth. Or at least it gets good reviews (which I’m already seeing) and FOX at least thinks about it before picking up the axe. Hell, you have to think about stuff when a raving review recommends people to “watch ep. 2 first, skip to 5, and carry on”. Which episodes were your idea again, FOX?
I´m going with 1.4. It should hold steady.
I´ll miss this show if it doesn´t come back, although not as much as Chuck. That´s the one I´m really rooting for
I am not sure from what i’ll say , but i really hope that last friday was a miss for prison break since it was just back from a bih hatius , but i think the fans will be back tonight (or i hope though), any way if prison break fans + dollhouse fans
watch dollhouse we can get 1.8 , any way , i hope dollhouse get renewal it’s amazing
i also want to see CHUCK next year
I wouldn’t be surprised to see a 1.2, did you see Thursday night’s ratings? They were kind of bad…and tonight is Friday…people are seeming to care less about tv shows these days(besides Chuck of course!) I personally haven’t watched Dollhouse live, I watch it online at a later date, I think its a good show, I hope it can survive at least 1 more season. I love eliza dushku, loved her more as Faith in Buffy than as Echo, but some Eliza is better than none!
An amazing 1.2 18-49
.. it will crush the competition.
Robert, do you think FOX will look at Dollhouse’s performance as it relates to Prison Break? For example, if Dollhouse holds or edges up .1 in the demo, yet Prison Break maintains its dismal numbers from last week, will FOX see the show as having a stable audience that it can then work on for next season?
…some Eliza is better than none
Well, yeah!
Come for Eliza. Stay for the rest 
It´s a shame how many good shows are having a rough time this year: Dollhouse, Chuck, Life…
Frank, I don’t FOX will use “better than the numbers for Prison Break” as a reason for renewal at the .1 difference level.
Victor, I don’t know of a truly good new show that isn’t in danger.
Do seasonal dips really effect Friday nights? I’m not sure I’m buying that.
And I’m finding it hard to understand why Fox would use the marker of a tiny bit better than this show we just cancelled as a reason to bring Dollhouse back. I mean they really have to be reaching for a reason if that’s the argument they use.
Let me think… yeah, you are right, Budo.
For the record Lie To Me (easily my favourite new show at this point) probably isn’t danger although it probably should be, which is weird.
Budo, what’s wrong with the Mentalist? Why isn’t it “truly good”?
Personal reasons (I kinda… dislike Simon Baker), and because I’m tired of gimmicky procedurals (Lie to Me is another example). Castle is an exception because it has Nathan Fillion and great humor.
There was an interesting quote from some FOX exec’s in an interview with Joss a week ago:
“We get it. We get that the numbers are soft, but it’s not a Nielsen world. The DVR numbers are good, and the show’s getting better, and the demographic is good, and we all have a crush on [star and producer] Eliza [Dushku].”
source: http://scifiwire.com/2009/04/joss-whedon-what-it-will.php
Don’t want to read too much into it, but it sounds like DVR numbers and potential DVD sales are considered more and more these days when it comes to renewal prospects, and from the quote it sounds like whoever is being quoted is a fan of the show, and would like to renew it if it makes any sense at all.
Obviously the show has to be making money for FOX for it to survive. It has gotten much better (first few weeks I watched it out of loyalty to Joss, lately I am legitimately excited about it each week), and the DVR and online numbers seem to be quite good, which will likely lead to strong DVD sales (Joss’ shows always sell well on DVD).
Are Dollhouse’s chances at renewal good? Probably not. Is there a chance? Definitely.
Here is hoping Fox figures out a way to bring it back for another season.
Alex, no I think the argument may be that Prison Break is going to provide an even worse lead in for Dollhouse than Terminator (as bad as that was). And if Dollhouse can hold steady or rise a bit, will FOX look favorably on that? Granted, there is a difference between looking favorably and then actually renewing it.
I dont see why networks care about numbers caused by a lead in show. Have AI be the lead in for Dollhouse and itll have great numbers to start, but that doesnt mean people are watching it. Its the half hour numbers that tell the real story. DH will probably have slightly better top of the hour numbers since PB has more fans than TSCC, but pfft. The 1/2 hour numbers will show that Dollhouse is still doomed.
Prison Break will tank, Boob Whisperer will kill it, Dollhouse vs Flashpoint, this should be interesting but I’m no fan of flashpoint, stale overdone cop dramas, even if its about Canadian cops is not enough to make me watch, 20/20 and Dateline, god I hate these pseudo news shows.
Frank my answer to that would be no I don’t think Fox will look any more favourably on Dollhouse if it can hold a 1.4 with a worse lead-in than Terminator and I don’t think Prison Break is going to be a worse lead-in than Dollhouse – lets not forget TSCC dropped down a 1.0 during its Friday run.
I think if we were dealing with a stronger original lead-in and bigger numbers then they would but the numbers are all so low at this point it doesn’t matter. If however you transport the CBS numbers on the Fox schedule I think the theory would hold up – by that I mean if Terminator had been getting Ghost Whisperer numbers leading into Dollhouse getting Flashpoint numbers Fox would be very happy if Dollhouse sustained that with a weaker lead-in.
But if the Fox shows were getting those numbers we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
EDIT – I meant for Dollhouse not than Dollhouse. My typo’s just keep coming at the moment.
Does it really matter, the fans are already lining up the excuses:
1)good weather
2) the lead-in
3)the small hiatus
4)there are movies premiering
5)sports
Did I miss anything?
TSCC DVR and online numbers will be higher than both Dollhouse and PB, so if those numbers do count DH will hardly have an argument in relation to TSCC.
I’ll say 1.4 the lead-in seems to have meant little to this show in my eyes.
Remi I’m pretty sure that when DVR increases etc. are factored in Dollhouse is still pulling bigger numbers than TSCC did but given the limited attention I pay to the DVR numbers I could very well be wrong on that. It is also worth mentioning that Dollhouse is a Fox Studios show, which would give it an advantage over the WB owned Terminator.
S I believe you missed the ‘its Friday and nothing else will do better’ response and the DVD sales will break every record known to man response.
FOXPLANNER – fox already opted not to air the series finale of Prison Break they will air only the season finale
S. – you forgot all the Whedon haters and others who lined up as soon as the show was announced and bet on when it was going to be canceled before the pilot was seen by a living soul! Honestly, I don’t remember a show ever having that much cancellation buzz even before it aired. I think it hurt its chances greatly and made everyone promoting it go on defensive instead.
Beta, I think that just marketing talk and morale boosting. I doubt it has any real relation to the actual decision for renewal/cancelation to the degree implied by the quote.
FOXPlanner, for some reason, I don’t believe you… ;-P
Yeah Budo , Alot of people just love seeing dollhouse falling , and even more worse they are hoping and enjoying it , if you hate a show don’t watch it , that’s it , no one is forcing anyone to watch !!!
The decision on the show will be made on the numbers from tonight. So hopefully the Whedon fans are ready for a strong showing.
A 1.5 and I think they renew it.
I’m expecting a 1.2.
Nick C if it gets renewed on a 1.5 I’ll eat a……………chocolate flavoured hat.
Not doubting you man but if they renew it on that demo FOX are rather nutty.
A 1.2 Nick? Ouch.
Hmm, I doubt FOX will make/has made it’s decision on one night alone.
I still have not gotten into Echo/Caroline. Echo’s in your face attitude is annoying to me, it’s bleeding over from being a college political activist. Sierra has always been a more interesting character for me. Her convincing vulnerability is a nice contrast.
“Did I miss anything?” Fox?
C’mon Fox, just move the cheesy reality shows there to Friday. Whatever new scifi/action series they launch next Fall needs a better night and time.
I’m wondering if Dollhouse would move to another night, perhaps pairing it with Fringe, or Bones or House on another night.
As for Dollhouse, I’m praying for a miracle for Dollhouse. But, I just don’t know how well Dollhouse will do. It could go up or down.
John I doubt Fox would base the decision on tonight’s numbers alone, how the show has performed previously will likely factor in as well but I think Nick’s general point was if it doesn’t trend up tonight then Fox is ready to throw in the towel.
Sigh. It’s hard for me to believe that this show is by the same person who created my great favorites Angel and Buffy. I’m going to say 1.2 and hope I’m pretty close to right.
I actually enjoy Dollhouse but I think the poor ratings and predictions of cancellation will drop the viewership even lower this week. Maybe a 1.2? I definitely don’t think Prison Break will help it all all. Putting a new show behind two dead shows is really just pathetic. I almost think FOX expected this. It may be the premise for the show is just a little too off for today’s viewers.
Lizard…
“Lizardman says: ….”
Which is why it’s disappointing to see writers, bloggers, or whatever harp on a show’s possible cancellation for several months. Viewers will think to themselves “why bother, everyone’s reporting it’s gone.” Of course it makes better news.
I watched about 15 minutes of Prison Break, just to see it lived up to the alternate title of “People Pointing Guns at Each Other”. I was pleased.
I think next year chuck will move to fridays to die
CHUCK FANS WILL CRY. LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Dollhouse > Chuck sorry
Putting Dollhouse on Fridays and pairing it with one canceled show, and a show that only got a full season because the producing studio gave it away, and bought add time, started the rumors. When a show that is slated to premiere on Mondays and even without even airing an episode is moved to lowered expectations Fridays, you cannot expect that there aren’t cancellation rumors.
Blame Fox. Not the people reading smoke signs.
I hope dollhouse gets more viewers I love the show, it’s the best new show of 2009, so far and It really deserves a better timeslot, FOX your stupid for ever even considering putting dollhouse on fridays, the only show thats ever done well in that spot is ghost whisperer but not all shows could be sooo lucky, i love G W by the way
Chuck on fridays or any night and I’ll watch it, I don’t understand the dead zone of Friday night, back in the eighties Miami Vice made its name on Friday, Numbers has always been on Friday its slipping but still people are watching, I guess I just have no life, oh well.
S. True, but Dollhouse is not the only example of this you’ve seen this year. If you are reading information here you are not the general public tv watcher. No one here is going to drop a show because of ratings.
I’m not speaking of this site but general media outlets. For example: Most of the ABC shows have been shot down one after another one or two weeks after they show up with articles or blogger’s stating the show is done for. Castle, Better Off Ted, Cupid all on ABC, and Kings on NBC among others have been hit with this type of propaganda.
I think it’s hard for the general public to watch programs they think aren’t going to continue airing. Unfortunately people take these opinions as fact in most cases.
Lizard…
When was the last time any middle of the road or bubble series saw an uptick of any substance? Apart from TSCC of course
For anyone who is watching a series via torrent download, you are helping to potentially kill the show… networks have NO way to factor in viewers, at this time, for torrent viewing… as a ‘friend’ at Fox once said, anyone who is dumb enough to think we have time to waste trying to figure out numbers we can’t confirm is on a planet all on their own….. enough said!
I do hope Dollhouse does well tonight, it took awhile to get how the characters are, how they interact with each other, and how the story builds. Is it a top 20 show, no, but for a Friday night, it does keep my interest all the way through the show each week. I do enjoy Flashpoint and if I could only watch 1, it would be Flashpoint, but Dollhouse works for me too.
Wow it is amazing how Chuck is mentioned in any article in this site not related to the actual show. It is so annoying. Let Dollhouse fans worry about their show here while Chuck fans go somewhere else. It is getting ridiculous now. You’re making us Chuck fans sound like douches.
Lizardman if Bloggers opinions or critical praise where that important, Pushing Daisies would still be on the air, and Private Practice would have been be dead by the second episode of S1.
Up until the official renewal announcement, and in the last 2 weeks, 3 legitimate media outlets, not bloggers, announced that Private Practice was doing badly and that they would be surprised if it got renewed. Last night, GA got a season low, and PP didn’t, considering only the episodes paired with a new GA episode. If your theory was correct, PP would have had a season low too, with a drop bigger than GA’s.
The average TV viewer doesn’t read entertainment news the outside gossip magazines. Unless the news of the cancellation is on the cover of the National Enquirer, they are pretty oblivious to the rumors. Check the KyleXY cancellation announcement post on this site to get an idea how oblivious they can be. Check the dates of the posts.
More damaging to Dollhouse were the latest red carpet photos of Dusku. Not the pose or the attitude of someone that knows she is on a hit show. Those sure are not getting the show any new viewers, and that is the whole idea of sending the stars to events.
Reading the entertainment media, and knowing the rumors, are the show’s hardcore fans. If the those fans believe those rumors, and stop watching, it’s because what they see on TV can’t convince them otherwise.
Well damn! I love both Chuck AND Dollhouse. What the heck am I going to watch next season now????
Last week, I thought Prison Break would return with significantly greater numbers than what it did… I think I guessed a 1.8 for the 9pm new episode. So I am now thinking, did that long-hiatus really do it in? Were the small pool of fans that were still watching on Mondays really not that hardcore? Or was last week a fluke? Did people tune in at 8 and think it was a repeat all night?
I’m guessing that those few fans still watching on Mondays earlier this season weren’t super loyal. That is my guess. So I’m guessing PB will pull even lower numbers than TSCC did. I think that the advantage that TSCC has over PB is its fans are FRIGGIN HARDCORE. I don’t think anyone would argue with that.
I’m also gonna assume that some TSCC fans watched Dollhouse because it was on after Terminator, but weren’t in love with the show. I bet some wouldn’t watch PB, and therefore won’t be tuning in to Dollhouse either.
So I’m gonna guess 1.0 for Prison Break and 1.2 for Dollhouse.
Alex, I think it would have to do more than “trend” up. If it’s solely based on ratings then I think it would have to take out a grappling hook and climb several stories to a 1.7 or higher to even have a chance.
S.,
As much as I’d like to see your point, I can’t agree with everything you pointed out. For example, Private Practice (at least in my opinion) seems to benefit mostly due to being a Grey Anatomy’s spinoff. Kate Walsh isn’t that big of a star as say, Amy Brenneman or Taye Diggs. Personally, I don’t like either shows.
And about Eliza Dushku, I fail to understand how her latest red carpet photos have anything to do with a successful show. Need I remind you she did have a show a few years back named Tru Calling?
For another standalone episode, Dollhouse was great tonight!
I think FOX should be obligated to give Dollhouse a 13 episode pickup. While I love TSCC and never seen an episode of PB, FOX gave them every chance to succeed. Dollhouse got nothing. Sort of pisses me off.
1.00 million viewers, and a 0.1 demo, I wish.
Really, 3.23 million viewers, 1.2 demo.
The episode tonight “Haunted” was co-written by Jed Whedon and his wife. It was straight up filler. It felt like the earlier episodes prior to episode six. I hope Nick C was joking about Fox’s final judgement about tonight’s ratings because I don’t think this episode will be that high.
Oh well, what will be will be…
This episode was really predictable, i knew from the preview where it was all going. Pure filler if you ask me, and the premise is getting so tired…
That’s exactly the same problem with Fringe as with Dollhouse, the stand alones are definitely weaker than the mythology.
Although Dollhouse’s stand alone’s are much better than the Fringe stand alone episodes!
I hope Dollhouse gets a second season, I’m just not that optimistic.
i turned away from prison break after season 2 and i don’t regret that decision!! pb has been crap for awhile now and who is really still interested in it anymore?? Thats the reason for its numbers last week!
I love dollhouse its new and can still bring something new to the table….I hope it gets a 2nd season thats for sure!!!
Walsh is right now the bigger star of the three. It’s show that ABC in the first season promoted everyone at the same level in the photos, but for the S2 publicity material has Walsh clearly as a headliner, with the others in the background.
Tru Calling, on Fox, I remember. and enjoyed, was yanked because of bad ratings with the 6th and final episode of the second season not even being aired. The first season ranked at 151 among all the shows, and the second season ended at 121. Outside of Buffy, and Angel, that didn’t depend on her to be a hit, Dusku has a very unremarkable career.
Like I said, the average viewer is more likely to read a gossip rag than trade media. That is why actors do red carpets at events not directly related to the show when their show premieres. Like a good professional, Dusku, did a bunch of those. The problem was that her body language, and absence of smile was noticed, and commented. That hurt Dollhouse more than people calling the show DOA on the specialized media.
So S., your saying that because Dushku didn’t smile or pose correctly at a red carpet event viewers didn’t want to watch her show?? Sorry, but that makes no sense.
I thought tonight’s episode was by far the best standalone. Predictable plot, but raised bigger questions on life and was balanced well with the mythology. My guess is a 1.5 demo, and that’s being hopeful. Maybe since it was a cheesy ghosty main storyline, we will get some of boob whisperer’s audience?
S. As I stated in the second line of my post it was from the mainstream media that I saw the negative reviews and statements as well as bloggers. Next time I’ll try to keep copies of the various articles just in case someone questions me. I did think at the time that it was a strange way to react to new media. Maybe the person or persons had an agenda. Who knows.
I know of a number of people that review shows who generally butcher everything because they think that gives them character or makes them a better writer.
Obviously the quality of a program is going to have an impact one way or another on the results of the viewing audience a lot more than what someone is saying, but television viewers seem to be either much more fickle or just have shorter attention spans these days.
I do agree with you in general that a negative review shouldn’t have that big of an impact. It was just a theory. Oh and by the way, how Dushku looked on the runway is not very relevant either. The general public is probably about as aware of that as they are of bloggers.
Thanks, Lizard…
Dollhouse (like Fringe) needs to do away with the stand alones. Stand alones are not it’s strength.
PB 1.2 ; DH 1.5
I’m downloading it now – a bit more time-consuming than usual since I have to download six 100MB files instead of one big file…
From the description of the show as a standalone, that will not do. You CANNOT do a stand alone as one of your last three shows of ANYTHING! Who the hell makes these decisions – five year olds? I’m pleased to see more of DeWitt this week in the description, but they need to ramp it up for the finale!
Eliza has been doing appearances this week to boost the show, so that may help draw in additional viewers. She was on Carson Daly, however, not the major talk shows.
So I am not predicting good numbers this week. My guess is Dollhouse is done for.
Just to condense this, your “guess” is that Dollhouse is “done for” because you’ve heard it’s a “standalone”?
I actually think this episode was fantastic, in that it really asked a lot of questions about the Dollhouse – what was the nature of the personality within Echo? Her soul? What exactly is death? I thought it was really interesting, something that I’m glad the show tackled. The actual plot was a little by-the-numbers, sadly.
Boris, just to condense this…no.
It’s the fine rhetorical balance between omniscience and omnipotence that I can’t quite sort out.
I find it hilarious that every article mentions Chuck, and most (including this one) the chain is started by Chuck nay-sayers. I like Dollhouse as well as Chuck, although Chuck is my favorite. I wish Dollhouse the best.
Oh, and Dario.. QQ much? Maybe your shows have Kleenex product placements!
That episode of Dollhouse was dull. I can see why it’s ratings are so bad, the show is predictable and Eliza can’t act. She is pretty though but I don’t think that’s enough. Olivia Williams and Harry Lennix are the only ones that can act on the show.
I like Whedon’s Buffy season 8 work (the comic series) but he is not good enough for network TV, at least not on his own and not at a successful network. I am guessing a 1.2 in the demo and maybe just over 3.1 million overall and 4th for the time slot. I also think Ghost Whisperer will have highest demo for the night at more than double DH’s numbers at a 2.5.
I am really not sure because even Prison break is not a good lead in.
I have a really good feeling about Dollhouse tonight. The episode was fantastic, one of the best so far (yes, run-of-the-mill story but the killer wasn’t predictable and the ethical dilemmas it brought up were definitely intriguing). I think that a decent number of those Prison Break fans who see naked Eliza Dushku in the Dollhouse ad will give it a chance tonight, and the beginning will definitely grab them.
I feel like the ratings are going to rise tonight, but I can’t guess by how much. I think it will steadily rise for the last three episodes. No idea whether or not it will be cancelled, and I know the numbers suggest that there is very little chance for Dollhouse, but I hope it’s renewed. And I am letting myself hope with this show.
It will do 3.5 mill at best with a 1.3 demo. im execting a drop.
The episode was well done, BUT it was a stand alone. They don’t need a stand alone now.
The entire Topher-Sierra bit was simply useless filler, much as I like watching Dichen Lachman.
The only story arc related point in this episode was the rather interesting event that “Mellie” turns out to be dozens of people who all disappear from the database search – interesting but what the hell does it mean? But that can’t help the overall story arc unless they do something with that specific fact in the next two episodes.
More interesting was watching Ballard trying to cope with his reactions to
“Mellie” being a Doll. It seems to be complicating his initial obsession with Echo/Caroline.
I even suspect that the message he got from Mellie isn’t from the same person who sent the earlier message via Echo. It could be that the Dollhouse is playing him yet again through Mellie, keeping him on the hook with promises of further revelations which may never come. They don’t want to kill him since that would provide evidence for his beliefs about the Dollhouse that the FBI could act on. But keeping him chasing his tail…and then screwing with his head via Mellie…that is something I can see the Dollhouse doing. Heh, it’s what I would do…
I think a drop in ratings is quite likely, showing up in the half hour breakdown tomorrow.
And I’m STILL waiting for “Alpha”, the alleged main antagonist, to show up which apparently won’t be until the end of the next to the last episode, as indicated by these descriptions of the remaining two episodes:
“Briar Rose” May 1, 2009
Ballard’s investigation leads him to the agoraphobic designer of the Dollhouse (guest star Alan Tudyk), and the story of “Sleeping Beauty” foreshadows Echo’s future, while allowing her to help a young girl deal with her traumatic past. Adelle goes to the Attic in search of answers, while Alpha reveals himself to set his end game in motion.
“Omega” May 8, 2009
Alpha’s reign of terror continues as his obsession with Echo endangers Caroline’s survival; Ballard must make a life-changing decision; and one Doll is permanently deactivated while another’s shocking past is revealed. Sierra and November are sent on an engagement as bounty hunters.
Such a huge bummer when shows you like the look of get axed before they even reach your shores. So you can’t even have any real input. I hope DVD sales are getting taken into account because I wonder how many people there are out there like me who flat out don’t watch any “tv” any more and just get the DVD’s.
Next season, Fox ought to have House/Fringe on Monday Nights (Fall), Bones/Dollhouse on Wednesday Nights (Fall), House/Fringe on Monday Nights (Spring), American Idol/Dollhouse on Wednesday nights (Spring) and I’d put 24 on Sundays or Tuesdays. With Idol as its lead-in, Dollhouse could beat Lost. But, that’s very big, “could”
ThePattern says:
“Next season, Fox ought to have House/Fringe on Monday Nights (Fall), Bones/Dollhouse on Wednesday Nights (Fall), House/Fringe on Monday Nights (Spring), American Idol/Dollhouse on Wednesday nights (Spring) and I’d put 24 on Sundays or Tuesdays. With Idol as its lead-in, Dollhouse could beat Lost. But, that’s very big, ‘could’”
Well, if 24 were moved to Sundays, it could always be paired with ‘Til Death. Well done.
Dollhouse. Biggest Success & Biggest Flop. Polls don’t lie.
“With Idol as its lead-in, Dollhouse could beat Lost. But, that’s very big, “could””
HAHAHAHAHAH hohhuzuhhohohaHAHahah aMAUAWAHWHAHA………….. someone shoot this guy please.
Joss a week ago:
“… and we all have a crush on [star and producer] Eliza [Dushku].”
Wow, that’s so wrong.
Have you noticed some of the posts that start telling us “great episode! fanatstic show!” but then casually throw in a list of things they didn’t like about it at the end? The angry Spirit of Joss won’t break all your Drusilla action figures in half if you admit you aren’t really digging this show, you know.
I’m still watching, but things just don’t look promising in ratings or writing at this point. It was nice to see Rhea Seehorn again – she was about the highlight of “I’m With Her”.
I think the stuff with Topher was filler… until it was pointed out that none of those people (Topher / the doctor) could leave the dollhouse either; that was there permanent home, so letting them do something out of the norm was expected to keep them from going nutso. It went from stupid filler to a answering a big question I had about how they’d contain the secret with all the employees.
I’m betting a 1.4, that improves to a 1.5 after the DVR overnights are figured in, as normal. But mostly, I’m hoping for any number that shows it’s stronger then PB.
I thought it was an OK episode that’s unlikely to bring in more viewers. I felt the concept this time was a tad stretched, I have great difficultly believing that DeWitt, Boyd, and Margaret herself would see Echo as Margaret, rather than a copy. At the same time, at least it put out there a concept that will force people to ask questions.
I liked the Topher thread, it was a both an enjoyable escape and answered one or two good questions about the Dollhouse. And I continue to like the fact that they’re treating DeWitt as a human being.
I have no idea if the ratings are out yet, but I suspect 1.0-1.1, given it has an even worse lead in than All My Circuits, both in terms of audience count, and in terms of the type of people who’d be watching the show, and the fact it had a break last week which always leads to an audience decline.
If it’s below a 1.0, I wouldn’t be completely shocked either.
What I am saying is that a caption under a red carpet photo in a gossip rag that says that the sad face is because the show is tanking, does turn more people away from trying more a caption under a smiling Dusku, saying that she happy to be back on primetime.
That anyone that reads the entertainment media, followed the Dollhouse saga, and the move from a Monday to a Friday premiere, doesn’t need the media to explicitly make the translation that the show is a dude. Fox did that, not the media.
Waite, none of the employees can leave the Dollhouse? How did the main lady keep in touch w/ her good friend? If this is tru then why haven’t we sceen the Black dude go stir crazy, trying to figure out what he got into?…..Dollhouse last night was one of the 1st episodes to show a use for the Dollhouse, except for everybody on the outside knowing of its exsistance except for the police and detectives and such…But if you are rich then hey they are only a call away.
Pete – Chris didn’t say none of the employees can leave, just “those people” and mentioned specifically the Doctor and Topher. We already know that DeWitt and Boyd leave the Dollhouse on a regular basis (well, it’s possibly Boyd can’t any more, but certainly he had to as Echo’s handler. And DeWitt and Victor were getting jiggy with it at DeWitt’s home in the prior episode.)
I’m not really sure what you meant by your last comment. The series has shown multiple uses for the Dollhouse. It wasn’t even the first time Echo has played a dead woman (she did in Ep 6 too), though this time the personality was clearly more accurate, and the goal was different. In 6, it was to help the woman’s partner, in this episode it was to help the woman herself.
Hi – Just popping in to let you know about a fan event to build buzz for Dollhouse. Next week we’ll be watching one episode per day, starting with episode 6 on Monday. We’re all painfully aware that not a lot of people are watching the show, so next week is a great chance for everyone to catch up. Thanks!
http://www.watchdollhouse.com (or click my name above)
I really enjoyed the episode two weeks ago. Haven’t watched this one yet but hope it matched up to last weeks.
I agree with you Dee. No one has a crush on Eliza. She’s the most painful part of the show. Really wish Sierra was the main character.
Obviously some employees leave. But they showed that Topher has full living quarters there and sleeps at the Dollhouse… because he has information that makes it where he can’t leave; the same appears to be true of the doctor.
I do agree that the girl who plays Sierra is really the “hot” character of the show, and she plays every one of her roles really well. Dushku is just too stiff. But, I really like the concept. After seeing “Caprica” on DVD, which is basically this exact same concept on another planet
(the “V” room) I realized how badly this concept could be done. For those that bang Dollhouse, it at least has a way better take then that dreck.. and I love Ron Moore for BSG / DS9.
Well according to panels the vast majority find Echo more attractive and appealing than Sierra. There were a lot of “someone needs to feed her,” comments written in.
I prefer Echo and Dushku to any other character. I love DeWitt but Echo was absolutely amazing in the last episode.
Dollhouse,” off last week, did a 1.9/3 in its return, averaging a series-low 2.99 million viewers
I guess probably saying “noone” likes Eliza is over doing it. I wasn’t talking about attractivness though. I was talking more about as an actress.
I just find the actor who plays Sierra more enjoyable to watch, not painful.
These Panels that you were talking about, what are they? What episodes are they based on? Or do you mean people who write on the boards?
T, wherever you found that, did it mention demo numbers? (1.9 for 2.99 mil is more likely the HH rating.)
Julia : http://www.hitfix.com/articles/2009-4-25-tv-ratings-fox-friday-dramas-droop-as-cbs-rolls
that is indeed a Household ratings. I’m still waiting for something with 18-49. haven’t seen it anywhere yet but I think we can rule out a 1.6 or better
Thanks. Yeah, the 1.9 is HH. FOX averaged 1.1, so the combo is definitely worse than the TSCC/Dollhouse combo, but I guess we’ll have to wait a bit to find out what each show got.
it’ll definately be cancelled now
JustTuneIn, network panels are basically surveys done of people who watch the show. They get them to sit in a room with a device and watch the show. Then they are allowed to fill out comment sheets, etc. It varies somewhat based on who is doing the research, but that’s the basic gist, and panels are done for pilots as well as multiple episodes through a season.
Oh, and it looks like Prison Break did better than Dollhouse in total audience, with a 2.1 vs 1.9. If that holds up for the demos, how low did Dollhouse sink???
I heard 1.2 for PRISON BREAK, and 1.1 for DOLLHOUSE. I haven’t seen anything though.
Damn. Low for both.
Well, I guess that’s it, then.
Come on where r the ratings already? its 1pm.
Anil, sadly on Saturday and Sunday mornings, we are usually mere barnacles relying on the kindness of other hulls (we don’t usually receive the info directly on the weekends, but we do Mon-Fri mornings). Since I haven’t seen anything with demo numbers yet, I haven’t posted anything yet
Well it means multiple things for one. I suspected a drop because of data FOX had acquired showing that PRISON BREAK was likely a worse lead in (not due to PRISON BREAK being bad, but due to less likely hood of retention) than TSCC. So FOX was able to prove that, and what they’re likely thinking about right now is can they pair it with something that will work with DOLLHOUSE and if they can’t the show is canceled.
I say that because they’re already seriously considering renewal despite bad numbers.
Would be FRINGE be such a possibility?
wiesengrund, I’d have to think they’d seriously consider pairing the two of them if they were serious about bringing the show back. If they’re sure that FRINGE has a strong base now and can live without a huge lead in, it’s worth a gamble to have it as a lead in. DOLLHOUSE imho is hurt more by the wide spread belief the show is in trouble that has been around since before it ever aired. If FOX renews it, in my opinion it would take a bold move like saying “we like it, we’re sticking behind it, and to show how much we like the product they’re delivering now we’re putting it behind last season’s most successful new show.”
I doubt it would happen, and would place it as an extremely unlikely event. That doesn’t mean they won’t consider it.
Fringe/Dollhouse strikes me as a very strong possibility of a repeat of TSCC/Prison Break on Mondays last fall. For some reason I doubt FOX would want a repeat of that.
Nick C, there is no chance that Dollhouse is coming back now. Talking about hypothetically pairing it with Fringe is wacky.
and to be clear, people at FOX may be “mulling it over”, but when the mulling is done, it’s not coming back.
Nick C, I just can’t visualize your scenario. It’s really tempting to, mind but I just can’t. It almost sounds like you are implying that Fox is going out of it’s way to make round DOLLHOUSE fit into a square slot…
While I like Eliza Dushku as an actress, she’s proven again that she can’t carry a show. She can be a supporting actor on a successful show like Buffy or Angel but that’s it. If they expected Tahmoh Penikett to carry it they were sorely disappointed since to me he was pretty flat on Battlestar Galactica and wasn’t a huge draw there. Too bad they didn’t make it an ensemble show from the get go. Olivia Williams should have been the lead instead of Eliza since I consider her the best actor on the show and her character is way more interesting. The character of Sierra, Victor, and Mellie to me are way more interesting than the character of Echo.
Robert, I couldn’t understand the 50/50 a week ago, so I’m not going to even guess on this one. They’re definitely considering options, and it would be a heck of a gamble to renew but if anyone can afford to gamble right now it’s FOX.
Not about quaility; it’s about ratings. Robert, maybe you guys should make a big blinking banner or something.
I would love to see a Fringe/Dollhouse pairing just to see what kinda legs Fringe has. I’m guessing not real good. I’d really like to see that. Isn’t that terrible?
FOX can afford a gamble in the spring, but does another fall where they are competing with NBC really seem like a good idea?
FWIW I don’t know anyone who refuses to watch someone on the basis that they heard it probably will be canceled.
What’s hurting Dollhouse are:
- A concept many have massive issues with
- Five relatively poor initial episodes
- A relatively poor timeslot
- Being paired with All My Circuits followed by the even more dreadful (and, unlike T:SCC, virtually no audience synergism) Prison Break
- (This week only) a break in the schedule
Fix /all fix issues/ and Dollhouse would probably have respectable figures. But rumors of cancellation really have nothing to do with anything. They might impact advertiser’s enthusiasm, but not audience enthusiasm.
I agree with squggleslash on the “rumors” effect on ratings. 99% of the viewers of Dollhouse (or any other show) have absolutely no idea what the ratings/status of the show is. In that regard, anything online is just one big echo chamber for the relatively few.
Dushku being a sub-par actress and asked to stretch week to week is probably the biggest problem with the show. (I agree with sentiment Sierra is much stronger actress.) Use all the technical excuses you want, save two episodes the entire series has been forgettable so far.
This is not Whedon at the top of his game. It makes me think he peaked with Angel and FireFly.
Bill, sorry but it has nothing to do with ratings. The Press have been talking about DOLLHOUSE likely “not making it,” since before it was ever aired. To think that the readers of EW, etc. weren’t affected would be foolish. It goes against a lot of what I know about of the industry.
The base of DOLLHOUSE are Whedon fans who are huge internet people.
When you already have so many people thinking the show is cancelled and then the network doesn’t air it for a week…People start to believe, “See it’s not on anymore.” So of course they wouldn’t tune in the following week. Oh this thing was a trainwreck from the start. If they had just stuck with the original pilot which was told from the FBI agent’s POV instead of inside a hi-tech 21st Century brothel, they might of had something. Oh well two episodes to go.
Knowing that a show is likely to be cancelled does affect me watching it. For example, i’ve seen only one episode of pushing daisies, and loved it, and then heard it had already been cancelled, and decided I didn’t want to go through seeing any more episodes just to bummed that it wasn’t coming back.
That also means i won’t be buying a DVD. That only matters in that if I didn’t know it was going to be cancelled; watching that one episode would have made me watch more and I’m pretty sure that I would have been hooked enough that when the cancellation did come I would have bought the DVD (because that’s the way I am).
I avoid shows that this and other sites say are going to be cancelled or aren’t doing well. I had watched the first season of Chuck and liked it, and then for some reason went on a hiatus of watching it. When I found out it was likely going to be cancelled by reading this forum I had no interest in watching it again; before that I was just waiting for the opportunity or expected to catch up when the DVD came out. When the article about maybe that week would do better because of the affect of house not being on I actually decided to see the episode. For some reason it sounded like there was hope, and that even though I wouldn’t affect any numbers by watching it was the last time I could watch it with some optimism. Anyway.
My story just to point out that there are people who have had great shows dropped before (Firefly and Angel really hurt) who get attached to them and who don’t want to go through it again with a show they don’t care about yet. I’m already going through it with Terminator. Reading this site kept me from getting too involved with Dollhouse since it was being said it wouldn’t get renewed before it started airing, so I’m not so attached, but watch anyways because it came after Terminator (and I couldn’t help getting mini attached). But I watch with an eye for everything that I don’t like. The way someone would watch a movie they had heard nothing but bad reports about. You stop looking for the good and only look for the bad.
That sucks for shows but since I’m not a Nielson viewer it doesn’t make much difference. And since Nielsen viewers love all the shows that I don’t watch I doubt I’m reflective of their behaviours.
Nick the fact that the press has been talking about Dollhouse ‘not making it’ since before it aired doesn’t change the fact that it debuted with a 2.0 and has now dropped to a 1.2. The audience was their for the debut and has slowly turned off. I don’t think that’s down to the press coverage, at least not completely. I think that’s down to people watching and deciding that they agree with the press coverage that this show isn’t going to make it.
Its also worth pointing out that there’s been some very weird ‘Fringe in trouble’ stories doing the rounds that don’t seem to have done much to change Fringe’s momentum.
Dollhouse’s press coverage probably had a lot to do with it being moved to Friday’s but I don’t think its had that much to do with the audience running for the hills every week.
Alex – it DOES affect the fact that it started at 2.0. If it started at 2.8 and dropped to 2.0, we’re all having a different conversation.
Rufus Dollhouse was never going to debut with a 2.8 on a Friday.
The truth is that the 2.0 debut was a strong number for a Friday so the audience interest was absolutely there at the start to get it through to a second season. It was even still (just about) there for the second episode, which off the top of my head I’m going to say got a 1.8.
I think when Fox moved the show to Fridays and it debuted with a 2.0 the press attention before the debut was largely removed from the shows future. It debuted strong and then because of the poor writing, acting and concept it died. It would have done that with or without the its cancelled before its even started buzz. If anything the fall would have been even greater because chances are Fox wouldn’t have moved it to Friday without all those stories.
TSCC has more to do with Dollhouse then Prison Break which is probably why we’re seeing the bad numbers.
Zak, you’re right. The dead horse in the middle of the living room is, as you said: Dushku being a sub-par actress and asked to carry a series. You can tell from the show promos on down. It was not a good decision. If Summer Glau had been cast in the role, I predict the results would be very different. She’s an exciting actress and would have generated buzz. Choosing Dushku was, to say it plainly, bad casting by Joss Whedon. It was his responsibility and was an error of judgement.
Summer Glau was busy working on a far better show….
Well, since the show basically was Joss Whedon producing a vehicle for Eliza Dushku – who is an executive producer – it’s hard to say he should have cast someone else. By definition, he wasn’t going to. The show was created over a four hour lunch between Eliza and Joss.
And while Summer Glau is both a terrific actress and hugely popular – more so than Dushku in my opinion despite Dushku’s background on Buffy – she would have had a problem portraying Echo just as Dushku has – because Echo has no “character” to portray. Even playing a robot would be easier for Glau – or any actress – than that. Glau IS excellent at portraying psychologically damaged or unusual females, and she can express a character’s reactions even when the character – like Cameron on TSCC – doesn’t actually HAVE any, so she might well have done a much better job of portraying Echo’s lack of personality. But I’m not sure it would have helped the show overall since the character itself has no audience connection.
The major mistake Whedon made with Dollhouse is focusing on the Dollhouse and the dolls right out of the gate because there’s nobody we want to root for in the Dollhouse, because they’re either personality and character free dolls who get their memories wiped at the end of every episode or they’re people holding said dolls prisoner. The way into this series was the FBI agent trying to uncover the Dollhouse and he was horrifically miscast and written. For all the bad press Dushku has received for Dollhouse she is infinitely better as Echo and her various imprints (which is an incredibly difficult role) than Tahmoh Penikett is as Ballard.
The early focus of Dollhouse should have been on establishing Ballard, who he is, why he’s searching for the Dollhouse and more importantly why we care about him and that quest. The show desperately needs an anchor that viewers can cling to and root for and Ballard is the only character in the show that fits that mould. Once you’ve established him you can start to get more focused on the Dollhouse what it is and why it exists. If the first five episodes of the show had been about Ballard chasing Echo and the Dollhouse and then led into the sixth episode that we saw I think people would feel much happier and excited about the show.
@ Alex: I think the show tried to do that but with Boyd. It didn’t work out very well because Boyd isn’t that watchable himself.
@RSH: The actress playing Sierra has been doing a decent job. Even Victor has been. The role is not unworkable. It can be a struggle I guess, but two other actors in the series have done well with it.
You’re right though that this is more a Dushku vehicle than a Joss story. She has been improving though. I liked her in this last episode… a little. I LOVED Sierra in this last episode even if it was filler. I would watch the Sierra/Topher scenes again.
It would be interesting to see what Summer would do and I kind of hope for a second season to see if they could get her to be a guest doll. Maybe one that had been locked away in the attic but who gets free because of Alpha. OOO, the story potential.
Watching T:TSCC over again from the beginning I’m seeing what you’ve been saying about Glau’s acting cred. I think she could do the doll well and would love to see her in a role like this. Hm, maybe that could be a gimmick of the show. Get random cult stars from other shows to come on as dolls for single episodes. Fun.
I think Sierra and Victor are a much easier role than Echo and even Sierra has been very hit and miss. In general Echo and Dushku would be fine if she weren’t the focus of the show. I just don’t see why anyone thought it was a good idea to make the lead character of the show someone who has no personality and gets their memory wiped at the end of every episode. The whole concept and structure of the show is flawed. As background/supporting characters the dolls work but as central figures they don’t at all because there’s nothing to get invested in.
If through Ballard we had learned who one of these dolls was before they became a doll and had some kind of relationship/desire to see that person return then I think the dolls and the slow tease of them not being completely wiped become more interesting. Although I will say the Caroline character they finally introduced is horrible and I have no desire to see Echo revert back to that.
If the caroline character was more likable and we continued to see that struggle of Caroline trying to reassert control, I think we could get invested. But people who break into medical testing facilities to release animals (ok maybe just film) reminds me of the movie 28 days and I just roll my eyes at them.
If Caroline had been done differently then I could feel for Echo… In fact I wouldn’t consider her Echo but still Caroline and be hoping for her to break out of it. As it is now Echo is an improvement over Caroline.
Anyway, I agree. Echo shouldn’t be the focus, but I do feel that the last few episodes have started to spread the focus around a lot. Like on Adelle for example. I think the last few episodes have been a vast improvement over earlier in the series. I do want to see some advancement in the Alpha plot line.
The whole idea that bad press doesn’t hurt is absurd. Yes, the show debuted to a 2.0, but if it had been all hype instead of all bad press I’d bet the number would have been closer to a 3.0 which a Friday most definitely can produce. Put NCIS for new episodes on Friday and watch what happens.
Fridays in the past have been the top night of TV viewing for the week. CBS and ABC have both accomplished this in the last 30 years.
The drop from a 2.0 to 1.8 to 1.7 to 1.6 was all due to poor writing. I’ve read the original pilot and while it would have made a better episode, I agree with many of the changes made. I understand why they were made. It was the right decision to make then, but the show should have focused on the FBI agent and done it from his POV. The sad fact remains that the follow up episodes would have been crap. It doesn’t matter that the show’s quality is now leagues better because the initial impression has already been made.
Which brings up the reason you renew: Make a new impression. Renewing would create buzz and hype because the reason would be “The quality is exceptional, they turned around the show from poor quality to hight quality.” Say it enough, get the press to repeat it, and people may buy it.
What if the first episode that 2.0 rating group had been of the quality of product they’re churning out now? Your talking better reviews, less “bad word of mouth,” before it ever aired and likely some hype. Then would it have dropped, held steady, or grown? I’d bet it would have held steady.
So if FOX is really believing in the product being delivered that is why there is talk of renewal. It’s profitable, it’s delivering quality goods. So now you just have to change the image the brand is currently portraying. Which if FOX renews is a much easier task than NBC has with HEROES.
“Even playing a robot would be easier for Glau – or any actress – than that. Glau IS excellent at portraying psychologically damaged or unusual females, and she can express a character’s reactions even when the character – like Cameron on TSCC – doesn’t actually HAVE any, so she might well have done a much better job of portraying Echo’s lack of personality. But I’m not sure it would have helped the show overall since the character itself has no audience connection.”
Mr. Hack, IMO you’ve unintentionally underestimated Glau’s craft. Her work is excellent on TSSC. The show soars when she’s onscreen. Of course, technically the character has no personality, but the role requires great emotional availability to infuse a balance of brute strength and sophisticated restraint into the eyes of this cyborg. Glau has serious chops. She would elevate anything she applied her skill to. It’s DOLLHOUSE that lacks a personality and that responsibility is Joss Whendon’s. They’re his choices.
Glau is definitely top-notch. I think Cameron’s personality could be developed in a very interesting way, more should have been done in season 2 and I agree with critics on that point. I really hope we will get to see her develop if we get more episodes.
I don’t underestimate Summer at all. She’s excellent, especially at this sort of role, and I said so in my post. But the role being discussed is particularly difficult as others have said because no matter how well you do it, there’s no “there” for the audience to connect with.
Personally I think Summer would elevate the ratings of the show just by being on it more than Dushku does. But that isn’t going to happen because the show is a Dushku vehicle.
Actually in the Terminator franchise, people aren’t supposed to connect with the Terminator. They’re supposed to connect with the two humans which are part of the Terminator formula: two humand and (at least) one Terminator. The humans are for the audience to connect with and the Terminator is WHY the audience is supposed to connect with the humans.
In Dollhouse, the only “humans” are the bad guys and the FBI agent. Everybody else is a Doll. The FBI agent really hasn’t been the focus. Personally I think the actor playing Ballard is doing a pretty good job given his role. I’m not sure he could carry the show as the central focus and POV of the show, because he’s not intense enough. I find Harry Lennix to be an acceptable actor, but he’s part of the “bad guys” and also isn’t intense enough to be the POV and focus.
Eliza could have been the focus and POV of the show, but not as a Doll. Perhaps she should have been a character on the run from the Dollhouse and Alpha and trying to expose the Dollhouse to the FBI agent. That would have put two reasonably likable characters as the focus of the show. Caroline would have had a more interesting permanent personality.
Adelle is interesting, but she’s more interesting as the controlled manager of the Dollhouse, not someone who’s a) been played for laughs in one episode, b) played as a damaged personality in a second episode, and c) in last week’s episode played as someone crying over the loss of a friend. I would prefer to see her portrayed as a cold-blooded bitch to take advantage of that fine Brit accent. She was at her best activating Mellie to kill the handler and sending Dominic to “The Attic”.
She needs to be someone who knows what the Dollhouse is really for and is perfectly fine with it. Instead, she acts like a low level manager who really doesn’t know what’s going on upstairs. This would appear to reflect the fact that Whedon originally didn’t have the Dollhouse as being this big conspiracy. So that implies the DeWitt character has been written for one scenario when the show has turned into another. Which again implies that Whedon doesn’t really know where he’s going with the show, as he indicated in his interview.
It would seem Whedon can’t really decide WHO these people all are and what their actual roles are in the show. Or perhaps he’s trying to make them all “human” in some way – which isn’t really workable, since the concept needs villains and heroes. They don’t have to be one-dimensional villains and heroes, but they do need to be identifiably one or the other. Instead he’s juggling them as villains and heroes from one week to the next, which further dilutes the audience’s ability to focus on the characterization.
“Actually in the Terminator franchise, people aren’t supposed to connect with the Terminator. They’re supposed to connect with the two humans which are part of the Terminator formula: two humand and (at least) one Terminator. The humans are for the audience to connect with and the Terminator is WHY the audience is supposed to connect with the humans.”
I would recommend reading James Cameron’s screenplays for Terminator and T2. Not only are they brilliantly written (the guy’s a genius), but the cybernetic organisms are well defined. From the first script:
“The Terminator’s an infiltration unit. Part man, part machine. Underneath it’s a hyper-alloy combat chassis. Microprocessor controlled. Fully armoured, very tough. Outside it’s living human tissue. Flesh, skin, hair, blood – grown for the cyborgs.”
They are part man, part machine, which is what makes the concept particularly facinating.
Nick to be clear on this my point was that I think a strong Friday debut for Dollhouse ultimately erases the argument that the bad word of mouth killed the show before it started. When the show debuts with all things considered strong numbers and then dies obviously the interest was there and the problem is less the bad reviews and more that the bad reviews were right. Could the show have done better without the pre-debut bad buzz? Probably, I don’t share your optimism that it would have done dramatically better on a Fox Friday with a Terminator lead-in without the bad press (and telling me its been done over the past 30-years won’t change that because shows over the past 30-years have 30+ million viewers but I don’t expect that to happen again) but I still think with or without the bad press the show as it is would have died a painful death – the drop just would have been bigger.
I personally don’t think the original pilot would have been much better than the one that aired and I don’t think it would have made much difference to the show either way because even the high quality episodes have been incredibly flawed because of the shows concept and execution, there’s just nobody in the entire show to really root for or care about and nothing short of a major concept and direction change for the show would solve that. Although I say all that having not read the script, but everything I’ve heard about it leads me to believe that’s probably a safe bet.