FOX hasn’t confirmed it yet, but multiple sources are reporting that Lie To Me has been renewed. Michael Ausiello reports that Shawn Ryan, creator of The Shield will be the showrunner for Lie to Me next season. James Hibberd has the story too, and it includes some hope for Dollhouse fans:
Sources say Dollhouse fans shouldn’t lose hope; that despite the show’s recent ratings, the show is still alive. Whedon pitched the network on his vision for season two late last week. Discussions have commenced between Fox and the studio about how to make the show work financially.
I do believe people at FOX are talking about it, but people talk. A lot. Despite the talk, I’m not hopeful for Dollhouse at all, but as they say, often wrong, never in doubt.
Well if we’re going “by the numbers”, Dullhouse is Fox’s worst rated bubble show and least likely to get renewed.
About Dollhouse: And here we go again!
Well, unless it was just a courtesy, allowing Whedon to pitch a season 2 at this late date and after the finale’s horrible ratings, seems like a sign of something to me. I wouldn’t have believed they would bother. They don’t seem to have bothered with Josh Friedman giving them a pitch for TSCC – unless he’s up next!
Friedman has babbling about how Fox is concerned about their pilots for next season before deciding on renewing any shows. Is this even remotely true? Anybody know? Nick C?
Why is Nick C an authority people keep citing? Who is he?
And Josh Friedman did meet with Fox execs to pitch a possible season 3 after the TSCC season finale, he talked about it in the E! online interview after TSCC won the Save One Show poll. I think this is regular procedure everyone goes through after a season finale.
Does it mean bad things for The Unit if their EP is taking a job on another show? OK, I know the ratings mean bad things for it, but is this kind of confirmation?
This is a good sign, right? Would a network talk money with any show, even ones that are definitely getting canceled? Why would they waste their time? Trying not to get my hopes up here.
I can’t see any point at all in keeping Dollhouse. I mean it didn’t even hold its fanbase however small it was. It lost and lost…
Yay for the awesome, awesome, awesome Dollhouse news! Don’t know about the show’s future! That’s anybody’s guess! Ain’t no good reason for getting all depressed! (Though sometimes tears and sorrow are all you’ve got!) But I believe I’m ready for what Joss has to bring! Joss’s heart is true; he’s a pal and a confidant! Where Joss leads, I will follow anywhere that he tells me to! I’ll be there for Joss, ‘cause he’s there for me too! When you’re lost out there, all alone, Joss is waiting to carry you home! What would we do, baby, without Joss?! Joss has got the future in the palm of his hands! Joss is enough to fill our lives with love!
We’re nowhere near the end! The best is ready to begin! So open up your morning light, and say a little prayer for Joss! (Or not, ‘cause he’s an atheist!) I want Joss in charge of me!
Dollhouse is the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel!
God created the wheel so too bad for Joss!
After TSCC went of the Air Dollhouse nearly collapsed in the Ratings so if Dollhouse is considered then TSCC is Definitely being considered probabally to stay on Friday
I agree Cody. I feel that with the film for Terminator on the way a 13 ep. season should be considered for TSCC. It has something to live for; something that might renew interest in it again.
wow where is the love for LTM!? I’m glad it got renewed. The last few eps have been the best of the season.
SAVE TSCC SCREW DOLLHOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!
TV Nerdguy: Friedman said he had a DISCUSSION with the execs about season 3 – he never made a formal pitch. He said they had an idea about what he intended, but he didn’t make an actual pitch.
Fox doesn’t own T:SCC, their parent company DOES own DOLLHOUSE… so they have a stake in overseas/syndication/DVD-bluray, etc…
FIREFLY sold extremely well on DVD and recently on Blu-ray. I’m sure they’re expecting Dollhouse to do well in that regard and thus are still mulling over some way to keep the show alive. I still think it has a VERY small chance of getting renewed. T:SCC is definitely dead. No question. I loved the show, but it’s over.
tvnerdguy, I don’t know maybe because after I posted on here that LIE TO ME was renewed and HUMAN TARGET was picked up media started reporting the same thing within the hour.
I know a lot of what goes on at FOX. Something is going on right now with FOX and Mutant Enemy and I don’t know if it’s DOLLHOUSE season two or something entirely different, but DOLLHOUSE is on the table.
“wow where is the love for LTM!?”
LTM is a very gimmicky show. Watching the promo where Tim Roth looked at the guys face for a second and then told him that he was lying was enough for me not to want to watch it all. From the promos I have seen I’m guessing that he is an expert in reading microexpressions and that he is the best at what he does blah blah blah. I could be wrong but after the promos I didn’t really care to find out.
Cody, when T:SCC went off the air, and there was a one week hiatus, and Dollhouse was paired with a non-science fiction series, Dollhouse’s ratings dropped about 10%. The following two weeks, it also dropped 10-15%, possibly in part because of major movies released those weekends.
So I’m not really getting your figures. Dollhouse was never helped much by T:SCC, T:SCC made very little difference to the viewing figures, and Dollhouse’s figures were always consistently higher than T:SCC.
Dollhouse’s is “on the bubble” (or destined for cancellation) not because of anything that happened when T:SCC stopped, but because it already had poor ratings. And if Dollhouse’s were poor, T:SCC’s were always consistently worse, which is why everyone’s 100% certain about T:SCC, and (today’s article aside) 99% certain about Dollhouse.
In other news, George Bush has been cast as the lead in a story about flying pigs
Does anyone know what TSCC’s first season numbers averaged? I’m wondering how they compared to the current Dollhouse averages. Perhaps that may give us an indication?
Also, look what one of my fellow Dollhouse junkies sent me. This makes ZERO sense to me, but whatever. Maybe this is what Joss was pitching for season 2?…
http://uk.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b123022_this_just_in_greys_anatomy_going_kill.html
Look below the boring Grey’s Anatomy crap.
Again this idea of a Dollhouse “spin-off” makes zero sense even to me, a big fan of Dollhouse. But perhaps that’s just a facet to Joss’s pitch for a season 2, maybe focusing more on an ensemble cast rather than Ms. Dushku primarily? After all, there are all those other Dollhouse locations and the multiple references to the Dollhouses’ “true purpose.” Maybe they’re a corporation hellbent on causing the apocolypse with guest appearances from the cast of Buffy …wait….that was the premise of “Angel,” Joss’s other spin-off.
Well, I liked Angel, so… LOL
Interesting, although it’s put in the “dreamy dream” stage which probably means it hasn’t even been pitched yet. Whedon undoubtedly has lots of ideas in various stages of development, most producers do.
Joshua: Figure your averages from this data:
Nielsen Ratings for Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/03/29/nielsen-ratings-for-terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles/3115
The first season average in number of viewers was 9.8 million, but it debuted season 2 with a 36% drop to 6.3 million and I don’t think it ever got better than that on Mondays.
Thanks! I’m still getting used to navigating this site. Dirp!
Hack, it doesn’t seem to me that Whedon is doing anything more substantial than Friedman did with regards to meeting withFox execs.
Excuse me, but Whedon is described as having “pitched” his show. That means a formal pitch. Friedman said he mentioned his season 3 plans to execs which implied a non-formal pitch.
A pitch is formal. You go in to the execs with your treatment documents and sit there and tell them where the show is going. It’s what they use to decide if your show is worth renewing in terms of the concept and future execution of the show.
Friedman merely mentioned his plans – the exact context wasn’t clear but it was not a formal pitch.
That’s like the difference between talking about an internal job posting to the person who would be your supervisor vs. actually interviewing with a panel of HR and supervisory staff. LOL
Joshua K, exactly. One is requested and the other likely wasn’t. TSCC is dead, Summer has a movie she is shooting when season 3 would be shooting and one of the other cast is joining a picked up pilot.
You can’t get more dead than that.
Or more likely you have a far more talkative producer in Joss Whedon with a track record of discussing his meetings with a network vs. Josh Friedman who seems to keep things closer to the vest until after the news breaks. At least that’s my impression based on the copious amounts of web browsing I’ve done on the two.
As for “pitching” vs. “discussion” this really is semantics at the heart of it. It may be the same thing from both producers but different language being used because the information comes from 2 different sources. You’re reading entirely too much into it. I’ve see interviews with Friedman describing him “pitching” his direction for Season 3. What’s the difference? Nothing really.
Besides, every show has an end of season meeting with the network to tell them the plans for a putative upcoming season. That’s what happened with Dollhouse, The Unit, Til Death, House, Grey’s Anatomy, Heroes, Chuck, every one. There’s ALWAYS rumors about a bubble show after these meetings, because yes, the networks do tell the showrunners about possible scheduling plans. Ultimately it’s meaningless, because if the source for these things are the showrunners, obviously their opinion doesn’t have nearly as much weight as an actual network exec. Look for buzz or rumors coming from NETWORKS, not showrunners.
Uh, Nick C., I’ve seen several sites reporting Body Politic (Brian Austin Green’s pilot, he’s the actor on TSCC with a pilot you’re referring to) is dead or dying. As for Summer Glau, she hasn’t agreed to do a movie in the summer. She’s received an OFFER to do a movie, which she hasn’t actually agreed do. She gave an interview at FEDCON in Bonn, Germany and I’m paraphrasing her words. I’ll post a link with a translation if you want.
Nonetheless, the wording of the press report is that Whedon “pitched”. The words DIRECT FROM FRIEDMAN’S MOUTH is that he has NOT “pitched”, but merely mentioned his plans for season 3.
While the press report may be incorrect, it seems straightforward enough to me to conclude that Whedon had a formal pitch. Friedman explicitly said he has NOT pitched.
She’d be stupid NOT to take it…
@Nick C. Reminds me of when I was still waiting to hear definitively whether my beloved “Dead Like Me” was coming back and then I’d heard that Mandy Patinkin moved to another show. I was like, “Well, that’s all I needed to hear…”
And don’t bring up the movie, please. It just wasn’t the same without him, and the new Daisy sucked. Sigh.
The GodfathersSJP: If you read the Summer Glau interview translation, she explicitly stated that she wanted to do the movie and was only waiting for two weeks to determine if she would be allowed to do so by the cancellation of TSCC.
I’ve seen the translation too.
RSH, that’s a far cry from Nick C stating, and I quote : “Summer has a movie she is shooting when season 3 would be shooting,” meaning obviously that Glau is already cast in the film. That’s clearly not the case as she pointed out and is in fact an error.
As for the explicit statement from the actress, and I’m posting them here for everyone else to read, not to contradict you, her words are: “I just got an offer for a movie role. It’s a movie I want to play in at all costs. I won’t
say which movie it is before I have more clarity if Terminator gets renewed in two weeks because then I couldn’t accept the role anyway. But I read the script and I was absolutely amazed. Right now, it’s very hard to go to meetings and look at things because the question is always if our series is cancelled. But I need to consider the possibility that it won’t go on and for this reason it’s comforting to me that I discovered this project last week.”
My reading: she wants to do the movie but can’t in the off chance that TSCC returns, and she’s glad she has a role and work she’d really like to do if TSCC finally gets the axe. I say IF because there’s no official word, yes I know the chances of renewal are incredibly poor.
I believe I posted a line somewhere in one of these threads about “A difference that makes no difference IS no difference.”
Whereas Nick C is assuming a) she will accept the role, and b) she will actually do the role, the bottom line is that she’s moving on as soon as the show is officially canceled. The only reasons she didn’t say that are 1) she doesn’t know if the show is canceled because no one has told her, and b) she’s saying that even if she knows full well the show will be canceled because someone told her the ratings suck.
She knew things were bad at WonderCon in February when I asked her if she was happy about where her character ended up at season’s end. I correctly interpreted her sigh, huge shoulder slump, frazzled response and happy face made with hands as that she wasn’t happy and knew full well the show was history and that her beloved character was screwed anyway regardless.
None of the actors are likely to sit there and say publicly “it’s over” until the Fox upfronts next Monday. But they know damn well because their agents have told them so, if nobody else has.
Personally I think it’s pathetic that they haven’t told her by now that the show is doomed. Fox certainly knows but she doesn’t work for Fox she works for WB. It’s ridiculous to leave the actors hanging like that (if in fact they have).
I know Friedman is BSing around about how Fox is waiting to see what pilots they pick up before deciding, but I see no evidence of that having anything to do with TSCC’s chances of coming back. Just conceivably I could see it possibly affecting Dollhouse if they have an idea for pairing it with another series, but not TSCC.
BAG can say whatever he wants about treating TSCC as his “primary job” but nobody works two series at once. He knows damn well the show is over and moved on fast. Whether his new series is picked up or not, he’s moved on. Naturally if there was any chance TSCC would be back, he’d be happy to have a job waiting if his series isn’t picked up, but that’s it.
Most likely neither will be picked up, but anyone who thinks TSCC would be renewed before Dollhouse is crazy.
Nick C, just out of curiosity – what kind of numbers did Fox expect for the Friday TSCC/Dollhouse, PB/Dollhouse lineups?
I can’t wait to see some of the responses after next Monday….
I wonder if reality will set in then?
I am a huge Firefly fan, and thus think highly of Joss, but I would be alright if Dollhouse didn’t come back as there was a fair amount of resolution. If it does come back, it HAS to refocus on a non-doll character that the audience can relate to in some way.
Godfather and others,
There was never a pitch for season three of TSCC. I know that for a fact. FOX never asked for a pitch. They specifically asked Whedon for some pitches. Yes, plural.
Summer was told she can sign the contract, she’s in the movie (to my knowledge). Go ahead and quote her all you want from a week ago. It’s pointless. The show is over. Warner knows it and so does Friedman. Warner was told months ago that the show would not be picked up by FOX. Warner had to make another advertising deal just to keep it on the air!
Also BODY POLITIC isn’t the show I was referring to. BODY POLITIC has warmed up in the last two days. I think it has a chance. So that would be 3 people from the show with a new job.
Not to mention that the impression I got from Shirley Manson at WonderCon was that she wasn’t happy with the amount of time and energy the show demanded of her. I think she intended to be a one season character, and the fact that the her character basically disappears at the end of season two confirms that.
Now clearly the show could go on without the ancillary characters like Derek Reese and Catherine Weaver. But without Summer Glau – and I’m not the only fan who’s said this – that show is dead as a doornail – probably even as a reboot. That was how important her character was to that show.
I dont understand, ratings-wise Dollhouse did worse than TSCC, maybe not at the beginning but as time went on the show performed worse and worse.
Just because its Whedon doesnt mean they should just pick the show up for that reason! I think it has been proven that he may have a fan base, but they are not in the 10s of millions lol.
I see there is still no word on TSCC ? I take that as a bad sign
Wish they would hurry on their announced fall shows !!
@ Richard, i too think it would be a HUGE mistake to come back without Summer, as she is my favourite character, i also grew to like Manson, unless they do something where it really does become “Sarah Conner Chronicles” and is soley focussed on her after John has gone into the future ? They could make it work but wouldnt be the same…maybe thats a good thing for everyone wanting change ?
TT wrote, “just out of curiosity – what kind of numbers did Fox expect for the Friday TSCC/Dollhouse, PB/Dollhouse lineups?”
Good ones.
Aww, I don’t want Shawn Ryan as Showrunner on Lie to Me…I’d rather see him do some original project
My personal opinion is that Whedon is being allowed to pitch a – possibly significantly rebooted or re-engineered – season 2 for Dollhouse simply because the show was profitable, according to Nick C. So they’re willing to hear him out on a season 2. Doesn’t mean they’ll decide to do it.
TSCC has nothing whatever to offer Fox. The T-4 movie will have zero effect on any hypothetical rebooted Terminator show.
I think WB would like to have a Terminator show on TV between movies, but only if the show itself has good ratings and earns a profit. TSCC has shown it can’t do that.
So the show can only come back as a total reboot – meaning as if TSCC never existed. New name, new concept, new plot lines. You could theoretically keep the same lead cast, since the three leads were excellent actors. TSCC ratings failure had nothing to do with the performances of the actors.
But even then it would be a struggle to regain an audience that might simply dismiss ANY Terminator show as crap based on TSCC’s performance. It would require considerably promo on the part of the studio and the network that buys it to overcome the negativity attached to TSCC.
I’d like to see WB try it again – but not if they try to just continue TSCC.
TT: I don’t think anybody knows what numbers Fox expected or desired for Fridays. We DO know they were north of the ones they got. So that to me implies at least a 2.0-2.5 in the demo for each show and five to six million LIVE viewers consistently.
Nick C
since you seem to know so much
what’s up with “Samantha Who?”
You know, i really would like to see FOX put a show like House or Fringe on a friday, yes they would still get better ratings than TSCC or Dollhouse, but i think it would have a real negative effect on ratings and show FOX that airing scripted shows on Friday nights simply doesnt help ratings at all.
I wonder what they would happen if they had put Fringe on Fridays with TSCC and both viewing numbers were below 4 million, after the ratings Fringe is getting i bet it would make them think twice about “porting shows” to fridays.
Why dont they put shows like Family Guy on fridays ?! That seems like the more logical show to air on firday nights (in my opinion).
I would agree – put all the dumb sitcoms and reality crap on Fridays, the shows that cost $5.95 an episode to produce, and leave the scripted stuff on other nights.
A lot of people wanted TSCC moved behind Bones or whatever, where they thought it would do OK compared to the beating it took against DWTS and Monday Night Football on Mondays. But I don’t think that would have saved the show either. The problems with the show itself were too great. But it might not have died quite so fast as it did on Fridays.
Debuting Dollhouse on Fridays pretty much showed Fox didn’t have much expectations for the show – OR they really thought they could pull off the “Sci-Fi Fridays” thing. I think it would have failed on any other night, but maybe not so dramatically. Or maybe MORE dramatically…Dollhouse has some serious problems of its own and unless it gets a season 2, it won’t have the option to try to overcome them.
I just wrote this at the TSCC wiki:
—-
“Ok, I’ll write this here to get it out. It won’t be liked. But I’ve always been realistic about these things. Ok, so, here’s what I got:
The Castle guys are preparing everything for a new season – acquiring writers and directors. They haven’t gotten the official pickup yet, but they so sure about the renewal that they are convinced it’s just a matter of time before they get the call. The Dollhouse producers are making formal pitches to the network. Pilots are coming in.
Now look at our situation: Remember last year… Even _before_ the official announcement on April 21st that we’re getting season 2, we heard that they’ve hired directors for the first three episodes. This hasn’t happened this year, we instead have JF’s “I haven’t spoken to Fox in weeks”.
These are very clear signs. Unless we hear in the next days that JF has made a formal pitch to Fox, TSCC is not coming back.”
—-
There are still people clinging to hope, but I’m not one of them. The signs are clear. Too clear. Come Monday, I’m prepared to see a Fox schedule for next season without TSCC on it.
Better late than never, Gusar.
As I indicated above, I think WB still wants A Terminator show on TV – just not this one. A reboot, i.e., brand new show, would be difficult but not impossible. I just hope they’d keep the same cast because Lena, Tom and Summer were just excellent in the three critical roles.
If FOX renew this trash they could at least renew TSCC.
Both TSCC (was just ok) and Dullhouse (bored me to death) dont have a ghost of a chance. The only reason the FNL zombie persists is Direct TV pumping extra cash into it plus NBC execs have a soft spot for it.
As for another Terminator series. One set after the events of Salvation would be worth trying – probably on cable this time.
The problem with setting a series after T-4 is that then the show and the subsequent movies pretty much have to be kept in sync or the hardcore Terminator fans will get annoyed if either of them are “non-canonical”. That would probably be hard to do even accepting that both the TV show and the movies would be produced by the same production company.
Halcyon owns the Terminator rights, so both the movies and the TSCC series but kept a firewall between them so neither McG nor Friedman would get in each other’s way.
The time period between T-2 and T-3 has the richest story telling for a TV series that doesn’t require massive special effects that would be involved in telling stories set after Judgment Day. The future episodes of TSCC were the most expensive of the shows produced for the series. They require the most expensive CGI and special effects and the most expensive sets. Stories set in the present would also resonate with audiences more over the length of time of a TV series (as opposed to the two hours of a movie like T-4) than stories set in the future.
All Friedman had to do to make TSCC a hit was drop irrelevant subplots like the high school stuff in season one, pick up the pace substantially both within episodes and the overall story arc, make sure the details were realistic, concentrate on the two core subplots of the franchise – dodging killer robots and stopping Skynet – and then push the envelope with serious exploration of the relations between humans and AIs, partly by emphasizing the relationship between John and Cameron.
It wasn’t and isn’t rocket science.
Actually, I am wondering when I look at the recent numbers for Harper’s Island…would any of the Fox friday shows have done better on Saturdays compared to Fridays? Because, the would’ve had less competition, that’s for sure.
If i had a choice, i would want TSCC to come back. I dont like DH and I gave it a fair chance by watching the first 6 episodes. I couldnt take it anymore after that.
But in my opinion DH has a better chance than TSCC. They gave Terminator 2 breaks already. The first was a second season when its first season numbers continually dropped. Then, in season 2 when the numbers kept on dropping they gave it the 9 back extension. Also, TSCC wrapped up nicely with most things covered. John is in the future with Derek, Kyle, Allison, John Henry and Weaver. It pretty much ended.
DH, however, got the bum end of the stick. Putting it on Friday night was a shocker to most. Everyone knew it wouldnt do well and it seemed like Fox was trying to destroy it before it got started. Ill bet Fox is thinking, that it owes this show and the people involved a break. Fox is much more lenient on its shows these days. And Foxs bad rep on pulling plugs stems from Whedons other show Firefly, and Eliza’s Tru Calling.
I still wont watch DH if its renewed, but i do feel its fans should get a break like TSCC received.
RSH, I know the odds of TSSC returning are incredibly poor. I’ve said that repeatedly here. Personally I hate relying on rumors from anyone and that’s why I look for official news. In terms of how I feel at the moment, it’s as a baseball fan who’s team is in the playoffs, game 7, down 5 runs and it’s the bottom of the 9th. In other words, I have some hope, but it’s hoping against hope because I know the show is done for all intents and purposes. If that sounds irrational to you, fine, I’m simply describing my state of mind.
If there’s one thing about TSCC’s fate that angers me, it’s the way the cancellation news is being handled. I simply do not understand what benefit FOX derives by stringing along fans and not telling them the show is over. Life, Pushing Daisies, Eli Stone, Prison Break, and other cancelled shows all received their news before the Fall Upfront. It amounts to giving fans hope where none should exist. There’s going to be a flood of email and letters regardless of when the cancellation news is announced. So why wait? Why torture fans? Why delay the news? Why not get it over with? I just don’t understand this, really. It’s not a cry in anguish, it just makes little sense to me.
Unless my memory is way off, didn’t Tru Calling even do better than Dollhouse is doing ratings wise?
Even if Dollhouse was a great show, it will never do numbers to pleas Fox. Buffy nor Angel would have survived on Fox either. They are too niche.
Dollhouse is more like a cable show IMO…but really it is more like a half baked brainstorm session. It reminds me of the group project in school that had the nugget of an idea, but was tossed together in three hours on a Sunday night before it was due.
As for Lie to Me, there is a lot of potential there, but the creator of The Shield…..? Seems like an odd mix. They could take the show in a number of directions without screwing up the core concept. I think Fox is smart to give it another whirl and maybe tweak it a bit. It will be interesting to see what kind of mark Ryan makes on it.
A pick-up for Lie To Me isn’t surprising but the new show runner is an interesting choice. I like it and on the whole I think it’s a decent show of confidence from Fox when it comes to developing the show. We’ll see how it pans out next year.
The Dollhouse rumours continue to be incredibly weird to me and I’m not reading anything into them. Personally I don’t think the shows been anywhere near strong enough creatively to warrant a pick-up let alone its ratings performance, it has to be making some serious dollars for Fox to make this happen. As it is I’d prefer Fox (and Whedon) cut their loses with Dollhouse.
godfather, I’d say the majority of shows are canceled without any notice or anything to the media or public.
Alex, it’s called “profit.” Since DOLLHOUSE is profitable, then it makes sense to try and see if you can fix the problems and go into season 2 and make more money. The show has been all about “bad news,” since before it launched. Going with a season 2 would theoretically say that FOX believes in the creative direction of the show more than the Media really let on. That could change it to a good vibe by season 2 premier. The Media seem to have changed their tune about the quality of the show as well.
Profit is the only reason to renew it, because ratings say can it and don’t look back.
Richard Steven Hack
Why did u watch TSCC? everytime i see ur comments on any page u somewho bring TSCC into it always a bad comment about the show about how crap it was. Yes the show had problesm and yes it had a few bad episodes but lots of shows have crap episodes lost and Fringe come to mind alot.
if you didnt like the show WHY DID YOU WATCH IT????
Nick C – I’ve noticed that too. Several media outlets, from science fiction portal sites like io to Salon.com (which had it as a lead story for either Friday or Saturday, I forget), have over the last couple of weeks suddenly made a big deal about Dollhouse.
I don’t think critical acclaim is enough to save it, but I suspect it helps a little, if only in making the schedulers recognize it has potential to do better than it’s doing. It’s not as if Dollhouse has had many breaks.
can someone explain this to me?
first i think TSCC and Dollhouse r dead-
that said why would a network put shows designed to get a yopunger audience
on a friday-when most aforementioned age groups will be mostlikely not in front of their TV?
Also Since these shows are paid for anyway
like say better off ted-or kings-why not put them on another network and see if they do better? i realize they may not want to cross networks but like putting kings on USA which is owned by the same parent company etc
why isnt this done-arent the shows paid for-isnt it worthwhile to try to find them a place they might fit somewhere else?rather than cann the show and suck up a loss?
am i off my nut?
if this has been discussed elsewhere plz link it -i havnt found anything that answers this completely
plz bear with me im new to this
sry i ment
i dont expect tscc to end up on USA as the networks are diffrent
but maybe it could be on FX
NBC has so many options- kings could be on scifi for example
i have seen shows like bionic woman on scifi-but they have been lame half hearted attempts in bad timeslots with little advertising/pr so they die
i guess im asking why isnt it worthwhile to do so?
Like I said Nick, Dollhouse has to be making some serious dollars for them to be working at bringing it back because there’s nothing else there and given how low the show has fallen there’s got to be some sense of rethinking its profit margins at this point and that will only get worse if Remote Free is gone. They have to be seeing pretty sizable returns to really want to make this work rather than go with something else.
chet – because everyone knows that science fiction fans are nerds who live in their parent’s basements and stay at home on Friday nights rather than going out on dates?
More seriously, there’s no way to put every show on the “right night”. Something has to be shown on Fridays. Fox reportedly wanted to make Fridays a “Science Fiction night” in an attempt to brand it and build up a particular audience. For a variety of reasons, that may be flawed (just look at the effect of major blockbuster movies coming out, which are always opening on… Fridays), but it’s not much worse than any other strategy. The alternative is probably showing repeats, which means two hours less of original programming per week.
Chet the majority of network shows are too expensive to then move to cable, unless the stars take paycuts and the production budgets are slashed. Kings for example would never work on Sci-Fi because its just too expensive for cable. The reason it isn’t worthwhile to switch shows like TSCC or Dollhouse to cable is because even on cable their numbers aren’t fantastic (and they’d likely lose viewers with the jump) and chances are they’re too expensive to work – that may not be completely true of Dollhouse, which I know has been comparatively cheap (in terms of network dramas) to produce.
@Alex
How are Dollhouse’s numbers not good enough for cable when Damages (whose 2nd season finale topped at only roughly 1 million TOTAL viewers, if I remember my numbers correctly) got picked up for a third season…and with a heavyweight like Glenn Close as the lead actress, I don’t think they’re paying peanuts…
Ugh. Fridays fail. When Wifeswap is getting super amounts of viewers, you really have to question what type of audience is tuning in. Seriously, I agree with the people declaring Friday night should be a “reality night.” That way people who don’t have real lives can usurp the lives of those who are willing to whore out their privacy for their 15 minutes… Well, actually I guess they’re getting 60 minutes + press if they’re total a-holes or “unfortunate” in some regard.
much thx for explaining
appreciated
John: “if you didnt like the show WHY DID YOU WATCH IT????”
Two reasons.
1) I liked season one. It had a few problems (the high school crap, some other minor things).
2) I liked the idea of a Terminator TV show. I kept hoping Friedman would pull it out sometime in season two, once it became apparent there were problems and the ratings weren’t good. Which is why I spent time criticizing the show and hoping the writers would pick up on the problems and fix them. Zack Stentz knew what I was saying since both of us were posting on the Sarah Connor Society forums – that’s HOW my name ended up in an episode of the show! Instead, Friedman made it much worse in the back nine, although he did pick up the pace slightly.
Now I’m just pissed off that one of my favorite shows and a show that had enormous potential to be a high water mark for sci-fi on broadcast TV for the next decade was instead run into the toilet and canceled.
Do you get a clue now?
Joshua the Dollhouse/Damages comparison isn’t an especially good one for various reasons most noticeably because Damages sticks around on FX for a couple of reasons
1) Glen Close and other big name members of the cast.
2) The critical acclaim.
3) The awards.
Dollhouse doesn’t have any of those things going for it, Damages is FX’s big prestige show that gets their name out their as a quality network that viewers should check out, that’s all important for cable channels. Monks’ critical acclaim and awards were a huge part of building up the USA original programming brand for example.
In general terms though I didn’t say Dollhouse’s numbers were bad for cable I just said they weren’t fantastic. Networks like USA and TNT aren’t going to jump at the chance to bring Dollhouse on board because the numbers aren’t strong enough and they’d likely fall should the move to cable be made. Whereas for the smaller cable networks the numbers and critical buzz aren’t big enough to warrant the price tag or the stigma of picking up a show that wasn’t successful on broadcast. More and more cable networks want to present themselves as an alternative to broadcast picking up their cancelled scraps isn’t the best way to do that.
As it stands shows like Dollhouse and Terminator just don’t have enough going for them to make cable networks interested in picking them up. The obvious upside just isn’t there. Its not like they’d be saving shows that pick up awards or that the critics absolutely love. Personally I’d guess that if none of the cable networks were interested in stepping in to pick-up Firefly then none of them are going to be interested in Dollhouse either.
The outlook for TSCC is better now than it was before Dollhouse took a dive. I know everything.
^^^^ That Nick C is an imposter TSCC fan boy (you don’t think we can see the details in the comments?)
DOLLHOUSE looks picked up. FOX said they’d do it for a certain license fee, and FOX Studios would be stupid not to do it. So I figure that it’s renewed. Why? Profit, not ratings. Also they may be hoping for good word of mouth over the summer. The last episodes didn’t suck.
Wow.
That is all.
The real Nick C this time?
Holy crap that’s good news if true.
@Nick C, On Dollhouse, Wow x2
Lol at the fake Nick C. That is so sad.
This is so exciting! Maybe next season, if it is indeed picked up, all of those people who gave up on Dollhouse because they thought it was doomed will give it a second chance. This makes me wish that I preordered the DVD version rather than the Blu-ray version, so that I could convince all of my friends to watch it.
One thing I’ve learned about Joss’s work is that it’s almost always better when watched as a marathon.
They’re working out the details now. It’s crazy. I believe it’s coming back with REMOTE FREE TV intact.
Bill and Robert, why do you think Nick C. is a real insider? I think you guys are getting hoodwinked.
Nick, btw the news is that DH *may* come back, it hasn’t been confirmed. RTV, on the other hand, is dead. This has already been reported.
Also, FOX has picked up three dramas for the fall (Glee, Human Target, Past Life, and it’s being reported that Maggie Hill may be picked up for midseasn). What would be paired with DH in the fall? An hour of reality tv? Sounds strange.
Well, I can’t complain if DH is brought back. My guess is that’s why they let Whedon pitch his season 2 last week. If he pitched a significantly revamped version, one that corrects the mistakes made in season 1 (or they at least think it does), they could just see that making some sense if the show is profitable and they can find room for it in the schedule on Fridays or elsewhere.
I could see them pairing Human Target with Dollhouse. Human Target has been tried and failed before. So I can see them hooking these two potential losers up on Fridays as another shot at “Friday Science Fiction” night (even though Human Target is not exactly sci-fi, it’s “comic book”, so close enough for horseshoes.)
Personally I think if they do that, they should get both shows OFF Fridays and take the risk of both bombing on a more important night. Who knows? It just might work and both shows might get better ratings being off Fridays.
Richard,
I promise you that HT will most definitely NOT air on Fris.
OK. I’d still like to see those two shows paired. If they are, then Dollhouse will be moved off Fridays as well, which I think is a good idea despite its low ratings.
To clarify, it’s not that I think Fridays is a “dead zone”. Dollhouse got low ratings because of the problems of the show. although debuting on Fridays didn’t help.
However, a REVAMPED Dollhouse that addresses that might do better on a different night.
I wish you people wouldn’t call Dollhouse – DH. I keep reading DH as desperate housewives.
My extremely limited understanding is remotefree tv is gone completely from FOX all ready.
Vee, afaik Fringe and Dollhouse are both still on the Remote Free TV plan.
????, I’ve heard RTV is dead and then heard just today it wasn’t. I know the WSJ had a blurb about it’s supposed cancellation but they couldn’t quote anyone. It’s likely the same thing I heard Wednesday.
Abrams wants RTV for FRINGE, so I think it will live on for FRINGE. If DOLLHOUSE is coming back then RTV may well live on there too.
Let me clarify, I meant that Remote Free TV was still in effect for *this* season. Next season, I have no idea.