while still nothing more than rumor from my perspective, I am hearing from multiple sources (not just Nick C) that FOX is picking up Dollhouse.
If that does turn out to be more than a rumor I have committed to donating $10 on behalf of Nick C’s favorite charity and regularly post weekly numbers for ABC Family’s Greek
Just think about this….
CHUCK, DOLLHOUSE, and SCRUBS all renewed. Crazy.
Save TSCC too !
Huge fan and I’ve already accepted dollhouse not coming back and now you’re telling me it actually might? between your site crashing and these new dollhouse rumors, you’re killing me tvbythenumbers! will we know for sure this monday?
are you serious nick c? all of them are safe?
Anything on TSCC? There has been a disturbing silence on that front….
The renewal of Scrubs would be an enormous mistake. We already know that Braff, Reyes, and Faison won’t come back, and I can’t imagine Chalke would either. Such an incredibly stupid idea. Why wouldn’t ABC renew Samantha Who? instead.
The crazy thing is I personally had written off Castle, Chuck, Reaper, and Dollhouse thirty days ago and now there is a distinct possibility they will all be back in one way or another. This is really crazy.
Lizard
This is the X Files all over again! To this day, I am wondering why Fox picked that show up for a 2nd season. I’ve read their considering Dollhouse for fall. Do you know what day the show would air Nick C.?
You do realize what this is going to do to Nick C’s credibility? Now he’s going to be all smug and everything… and rightly so.
I have to say this is (assuming it’s true) fantastic news though. Despite the poor start, I think it’s developed to be one of the best shows on television. Let’s hope Nick’s right about Chuck too.
TSCC is canceled. It has been for weeks but Josh Friedman doesn’t have the guts to tell fans or even employees. Some of the talent involved on that show had to find out through their agents!
rasmussen, yep all safe.
Robert, technically even though I said this was happening days ago … Justin said this was happening weeks ago.
I guess you were wrong. And that’s awesome because I love Dollhouse!
http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/05/dollhouse-second-season.html
http://twitter.com/EWAusielloFiles/status/1809024330
http://twitter.com/TheLiveFeed
I think what we’re possibly seeing, if all these low rated shows are renewed, is a stampede to lower programming costs no matter what. Everything else, including ratings, be damned.
“looks likely” still is in the realm of rumor to me. But I’ll give you that it does at least LOOK like I will be wrong here.
KellyH, ABC has worked out a deal with Braff and Chalke for them to appear in at least six episodes of Scrubs next season.
http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news.aspx?date=05/14/09&id=8092
It looks like FOX is going to have a lot of scifi on their schedule next year. Fringe, Dollhouse, Past Life, and Human Target.
TSCC is likely dead or we would have heard something. I’m a TSCC fan, you all know this, and frankly I’ll be upset if Dollhouse makes it but TSCC doesn’t. We get told time after time that ratings matter the most. Okay then. Why does TSCC finish above Dollhouse in Viewership for the last 3 weeks it runs, only 0.1 points down in 18-49 ratings, and not get judged the same why? Why does Dollhouse get a renewal when it dropped over 800,000 viewers and 0.4 ratings points without TSCC as a lead in, finishing markedly below what TSCC pulled for its own finale?
Yeah, I had to vent a little. That’s what all of that paragraph above was about. I know the show’s almost certainly dead beyond a miracle bordering on the “An Appearence by Holy Mary Mother of God” levels. I know Dollhouse is owned by FOX and therefore much cheaper for the network. I get all that.
It’s just irritating to be told time after time that ratings matter most, and then see a show that crashed below your own still get renewed. Apples and oranges. I know.
I do think I have a right to be a little mad about this when TSCC gets the official axe but DH doesn’t though, don’t you think?
Note, I’m not bashing the quality of Dollhouse vs. TSCC AND I DON’T WANT TO GET INTO THAT KIND OF DEBATE. I’m just venting.
This has got to be, without a doubt, one of the more loopy RONR (Renewal or No Renewal) seasons I have seen in quite a long time. Chuck, TSCC, Scrubs, Dollhouse, Medium, Cold Case, Without A Trace, Fringe, Heroes… I know some have since been renewed and others have been all but sent into the history books but still…
Yet another reason to turn in next week… same bat time, same bat channel.
Dollhouse is a surprise, well all I can say is wheadon better do a better job than the first 13, and maybe replace dushku with Glau. Scrubs is a horrible show utterly devoid of anything funny, totally useless TV figures its on ABC.
And as we enter the final days of Chucks announcement I would say it was never in danger anyway, all hype, NBC knows, has known all along, its the only show they got with any traction, the fan campaign just solidified that point. Medium, L%O, Southland, Heroes all dying or dead in the next 2 seasons, chuck is the only one with any chance and momentum, so all just hype.
With it becoming more and more difficult to launch new shows, it makes sense that networks would be keeping around some lower-performing shows that they might not have kept around in the past.
If there’s two things, Dollhouse and Fringe have in common is that both shows improved tremendously over the course of their 1st seasons and that both should have spectacular second seasons. I’m really looking forward to having Dollhouse for a 2nd season. Despite its faults like Fringe, it will also no doubt improve during the 2nd season.
Great i would like to know Greek numbers
This has got to be, without a doubt, one of the more loopy RONR (Renewal or No Renewal) seasons I have seen in quite a long time. Chuck, TSCC, Scrubs, Dollhouse, Medium, Cold Case, Without A Trace, Fringe, Heroes… I know some have since been renewed and others have been all but sent into the history books but still…
Bill, if that is true on the stampede and ratings are being discarded from the equation in a rush to lessen costs, then what measure is going to be used to judge a show’s chances of survival? If the door is opened to this practice and it filters up to the more solid shows, ratings-wise, in a more aggressive attempt to bring down costs, might this possibly undermine everything from special effects to quality of stories, acting, and characters in the long run?
I’m wondering if Pandora’s Box has been opened up a bit if these low-rated shows get green lights.
Well, either way, another reason to turn in next week… same bat time, same bat channel… to see the final slate of shows for the fall (more or less).
Weird… a post I was told did not get posted got posted up above…
SW, our web host admins are still working out a few kinks, it’s not you.
Having server problems again. What goes on with this site?
Okay, fair enough, Robert. Thanks for the kind note. I appreciate it. Hope those kinks get worked out.
I can’t completely buy the stampede to lower cost programming because there’s no way it’s cheaper than airing reruns of Bones, House, Lie to Me, Fringe, etc. If it was truly “ratings be damned”, it seems like reruns and lower cost UNscripted shows would be the lower cost route.
What night would they put Dollhouse on? What would be its lead-in, Nick C.?
KellyH, Braff and Chalke have already signed a 6 episode deal to be a part of the “reboot,” next season.
FringeFan, if you visit this site regularly, surely you’ve read of the recent issues and server move?
If Dollhouse and Priveleged andBetter Off Ted somehow end up getting renewed, my only explanation will be that the networks are conspiring to undermine the Renewal/Cancel Index.
Ever think they renew these because they don’t have anything they believe will be any better. Better to know what you have than try something and have to pull it completely after 3-4 weeks and look foolish.
I was really surprised by Fox renewing Til Death which of course is a cheap show. But Fox could easily replace DH with a really cheap reality show, so I really don’t get it.
Oh, and by the way, is Fox really going to pick up Earl if NBC passes? That would make sense to me cause MNIS is a perfect show for Sunday. It goes perfectly together with King of the Hill, because TD has like 40 unaired episodes left.
7:00 – Til Death / OT
7:30 – King of the Hill / OT / MNIE
8:00 – Simpsons
8:30 – American Dad
9:00 – Family Guy
9:30 – Cleveland Show
Andrew, our very own conspiracy! We’ve arrived!
http://tv.ign.com/articles/983/983422p1.html
I’m still skeptical, since all these sites only say “sources”– not even where the sources are from. FOX? A fan blog?
However, if FOX renews a show that finished with a 1.0 (and where does it go from there?), then they must have 0 confidence in any of their new shows. And, based on the buzz (none), I wouldn’t be surprised.
Robert, if they’re going with the cost of the last episode Joss shot… then yes, it’s cheaper than BONES, HOUSE, etc. All those shows cost over $2M an episode to shoot, even airing it as a repeat (thus half the cost) it’s still over $1M, and it appears DOLLHOUSE may cost well under $1M an episode. In fact it’s barely more expensive than some of the unscripted stuff FOX has that costs around $600K an episode.
“and maybe replace dushku with Glau” Good luck with that, Summer is set for a movie and Dushku is more than just an actress on the show.
But I’m going to second The_GodfatherSJP on this… Why? The final weeks of Dollhouse were deplorable, especially when Prison Break moved in. Their finale was much lower than TSCC’s.
Do we have another Til Death, something just there to plug a hole?
The only reason for renewing Dollhouse that I can imagine is that FOX is seriously trying to committ to a sci-fi friday in the hopes of pulling off another X-files. That being said, I know FOX wont put any new show on Friday and I am certain Dollhouse will stay on Fridays if it is renewed (nowhere else to go). I can understand this logic if they decided to suck it up and renew both TSCC and Dollhouse in their regular Friday slots hoping it will catch on, but if they canceled TSCC, the better quality, better rated, better DVR and onlien viewing, etc. show, then this makes zero sense to me. Even though FOX owns this show, they still won’t make any profit from it at this rate, save some sort of ratigns miracle next season.
NICK, huh? They pay what they pay including the right to air each episode 3 times (1 original, 2 reruns). Since they paid what they paid for House, Lie To Me, etc, it’s sunk cost whether they air all three they paid for or not. It only becomes a factor if they’d already planned to run 2 reruns aside from Friday nights. Otherwise your math doesn’t make any sense to me at all.
NICK, huh? They pay what they pay including the right to air each episode 3 times (1 original, 2 reruns). Since they paid what they paid for House, Lie To Me, etc, it’s sunk cost whether they air all three they paid for or not. It only becomes a factor if they’d already planned to run 2 reruns aside from Friday nights. Otherwise your math doesn’t make any sense to me at all.
Nick C., for TSCC fans, it’s beyond not telling everyone we’re cancelled. He’s also told TSCC fans to keep campaigning to save the show. Is this true? Did he really know and not tell anyone? How do you know this? (I’m really asking here, not trying to be a jerk).
If he does know now, and didn’t tell us, and let us go on campaigning knowing there was no point, I ask you, do I have a right to be very, very angry with the man? I mean why string everyone along? This is going to hurt so much more, if he really did know and wouldn’t tell us. It’s the equivalent of an F-U to the fans.
Yeah, I know, I’m still venting. Going through the anger stage of grief right now guys. And it’s not because I thought TSCC was going to come back. Heck, I started watching the show in the middle of the second season, knowing it was terminal already. I still fell in love with watching it. (Sigh). I knew the show was probably dead anyway, and I still found myself actively engaging in a campaign to save it. I’ve never did that before for any show. EVER. Call me an idiot if you want.
Obviously I’m a little let down, but I did see this coming. No news for a show coming back is BAD news. I know it’s done. I just have to move on.
SW, cost isn’t the only measure of survival that skews the equation, you need to include future revenue–syndication consideration–as a driving factor as well. From this season, Scrubs, Medium, and My Name is Earl come to mind.
Fringe to be the lead in for Dollhouse? It would actually be a good pairing.
Andrea, like I posted elsewhere… I’m totally having a Dana Scully reaction to this rumor. Lots of people with sources, now is time for the evidence.
My guess is that DOLLHOUSE will stay on Fridays at 9 and that it will probably get PAST LIFE as its lead in. That was the last drama to get picked up and seems to be more of a niche series anyway.
That would show that FOX is serious about scripted Fridays (as has been rumored by Nick C and other in the last months) by providing consistency on that day for the first time in… practically ever?
Andrea, like I posted elsewhere… I’m totally having a Dana Scully reaction to this rumor. Lots of people with sources, now is time for the evidence.
My guess is that DOLLHOUSE will stay on Fridays at 9 and that it will probably get PAST LIFE as its lead in. That was the last drama to get picked up and seems to be more of a niche series anyway.
That would show that FOX is serious about scripted Fridays (as has been rumored by Nick C and other in the last months) by providing consistency on that day for the first time in… practically ever?
Fringe to be the lead in for Dollhouse? It would actually be a good pairing.
Dan, I actually think Bones/Dollhouse or Human Target/Dollhouse might worker better and I can’t see them sacrificing Fringe if Dollhouse stays on Fridays.
godfather, he’s a tool. It’s ok to be mad at him. He could be hoping that your campaign works, but the fact is he killed the show himself. From 19M viewers to less than 3M.
Nick C., I have to ask you, is it really true that Friedman knew and didn’t tell anyone? Is that really the case? It’s a serious question, and I must ask how you found this out.
You know I’m a TSCC fan. You know there’s a save the show campaign, and I’m actively involved in it. Yes, you can call me crazy or an idiot if you want. I started watching the show in the middle of the second season, knowing its survival prospects were poor, and I loved it. I found myself writing letters and voting in polls to save a show and I have never, not once, NEVER done that before for any TV show I have liked.
The thing is, several of the actors, AND the writers, have directly encouraged we, the fans, to participate in Save the Show efforts, including voting in polls, writing, etc. Brian Austin Green in a public podcast a few weeks ago told the radio hosts the show wasn’t cancelled, Thomas Dekker, THIS MORNING, posted a video of himself calling FOX asking them to renew the show, both Ashley Miller and Friedman have publicly said on Twitter that the show’s fate hasn’t been decided and Michael Ausiello’s scoop was wrong, and they’ve also encouraged fans to campaign there. It’s not just them simply repeating the “nothing has been decided” mantra, they’ve actually sent links and messages out.
So you can see why I’m getting a little upset about your post, but it’s not anger directed at you. If the TSCC staff in fact knew and encouraged fans nonetheless, knowing we were wasting our time with this, then I believe I and the rest of the fanbase should be justifiably angry with these people. So I need your help here. Simply put I need some kind of timeline of events, like when the news hit, how you heard it, etc. You don’t have to name names here, but I need something a little hard here. If I’m going to convince anyone else of this I need your assitance. Please help me here.
Nick C., I have to ask you, is it really true that Friedman knew and didn’t tell anyone? Is that really the case? It’s a serious question, and I must ask how you found this out.
You know I’m a TSCC fan. You know there’s a save the show campaign, and I’m actively involved in it. Yes, you can call me crazy or an idiot if you want. I started watching the show in the middle of the second season, knowing its survival prospects were poor, and I loved it. I found myself writing letters and voting in polls to save a show and I have never, not once, NEVER done that before for any TV show I have liked.
The thing is, several of the actors, AND the writers, have directly encouraged we, the fans, to participate in Save the Show efforts, including voting in polls, writing, etc. Brian Austin Green in a public podcast a few weeks ago told the radio hosts the show wasn’t cancelled, Thomas Dekker, THIS MORNING, posted a video of himself calling FOX asking them to renew the show, both Ashley Miller and Friedman have publicly said on Twitter that the show’s fate hasn’t been decided and Michael Ausiello’s scoop was wrong, and they’ve also encouraged fans to campaign there. It’s not just them simply repeating the “nothing has been decided” mantra, they’ve actually sent links and messages out.
So you can see why I’m getting a little upset about your post, but it’s not anger directed at you. If the TSCC staff in fact knew and encouraged fans nonetheless, knowing we were wasting our time with this, then I believe I and the rest of the fanbase should be justifiably angry with these people. So I need your help here. Simply put I need some kind of timeline of events, like when the news hit, how you heard it, etc. You don’t have to name names here, but I need something a little hard here. If I’m going to convince anyone else of this I need your assitance. Please help me here.
Robert, Thank you for adding my Greek bit:)
The_GodfatherSJP – don’t forget there’s a wider audience for the “save T:SCC” fan campaign, it’s not just aimed at Fox. Warner will want to pitch it to other networks too, noteably Syfy. I wouldn’t assume that because JF may or may not have known the show had no chance of being continued at Fox that he and the others involved in the show were acting in bad faith by encouraging fans to promote a third season.
DRAT. Sorry for all the double posts. I didn’t see your reply Nick C., the page wouldn’t load so I typed the other post you’re seeing (sorry to Robert and Bill as well). I do want some kind of timeline here though. I need one, especially if it’s true, because I’ll have to convince other fans about this. It’s the only way I’m going to get through to the others.
As for him being a tool, several cast members have said (Summer, Brian Austin Green, Shirley Manson) that they love working for him. I’m not doubting you, it just doesn’t make sense to me that all these actors, all these writers, all the staff, would be royally screwing the fans here. To what purpose? Why ABUSE us (and it is abuse)? Why keep stringing us along? Why order “radio silence” in the E! Online poll, especially as these guys don’t work for him anyway?
I’m sorry if I just keep asking why, but I’ve put a lot of effort into this, so if it was all for naught the entire time, you can imagine the emotions churning inside me right now.
OMG im sooo excited i absolutely love DOLLHOUSE!
godfather, they might still be campaigning, but the decision is done. The time line is something like in February FOX contacted Warner about its future and let them know it was bleak. Since then I’d say last Friday was the day that FOX made it as official as they’re going to. Of course, it is true that until the announcement on Monday it’s not “official.”
You’re talking about people in denial. There is nothing new about that. Remember Brooke Shields this past winter?
You guys want to campaign someone, campaign SCI-FI. It’s your only hope and it’s a bleak one too. However you have a chance there. You have no chance with FOX.
John T. Folden, BONES or HUMAN TARGET don’t seem very likely DOLLHOUSE lead ins to me. DH will most certainly stay on Fridays as Variety etc reported.
Fox won’t move BONES away from Thursdays, it and HELL’S KITCHEN are successful there. And HUMAN TARGET seems to be their most buzzed about new series, they will try and prop it with FRINGE or something.
godfather, I don’t know many employees who say “My boss is a tool.” They do however repeat the soundbyte “He’s great to work for,” or James Hibberd’s favorite “I’m thrilled to be working for.”
Is there much of any chance at Sci Fi? They’ve already gone on records numerous times this last year saying they have no interest in picking up other networks cast-offs any longer.
If this is true about Dollhouse, and I hope it is, I will be more than a little pissed off if Terminator doesn’t get picked up too. T:SCC fans have been pushing for another season like crazy for the last few months. It would be unfair (to say the least) to decide that Nielsen has the last say with that show if it doesn’t with Dollhouse.
I believe PAST LIFE is the DOLLHOUSE lead in. I remember seeing that and going “WTF,” because I mean PAST LIFE vs GHOST WHISPERER it just seems like some of your target base is already occupied with another series.
I think they might try House and Dollhouse on Mondays and Fringe and Human Target
I can confirm that Thomas Dekker swears just today in his (very funny) video message to Dekker Daily he still doesn’t know the fate of his show where he’s the star.
To me, this is just bizarre. There’s no way the actors haven’t been told with the upfronts three days off! Their agents would be pestering the studio at the very least (Dekker is in Chicago filming a Nightmare on Elm Street movie BTW)!
The only possibility is that not only is NBC screwed up on their scheduling, but Fox is, too. Friedman has been claiming the reason the TSCC decision hasn’t been made is that Fox is waiting to see if all their pilots are picked up. That makes little sense to me, but it’s the only explanation I can see as to why people haven’t been notified – unless they’re all lying. For what it’s worth, Dekker swears he’s not lying.
I can understand Fox needing to iron out some details to the last minute before the upfronts – or even delaying the upfronts – but letting Whedon pitch Dollhouse a week before the upfronts and then not informing anybody about TSCC seems unusual to me.
OTOH, having worked at Bank of America and other large companies, I know management is always in “crisis” mode and nothing ever happens on time.
It just seems to me that Fox would have told WB weeks ago about TSCC and WB would have told Halcyon, and Halcyon would have told the actors (I presume that’s the chain of command.) I mean, contract lawyers and agents have to be involved here when an actor is let out of a contract, right?
Is it possible Fox is so screwed up they haven’t let ANYBODY know of their plans for TSCC and Dollhouse – or so screwed up that they don’t HAVE a plan?
John T Foldem, you don’t believe a word I say anyway!
SCI-FI is interested in making money and they’re interested in expanding their Brand. Tying themselves to a Brand like TERMINATOR might be an exception to their statement. It would be silly for them not to be interested. It could easily pull BSG numbers for them. If the fans campaigned in the correct manner, I’d say it was a possibility. Just realize it will be without Summer Glau.
wow wow wow. fox is picking up dollhouse and there are rumors that fox will probabluy move it away from friday night because they think its not able to survive after the hiatus in summer on that night. i read they would probably move it, ITS NOT A JOKE, after House. IT WOULD BE INCREDIBLE, JUST THE NAME: 2-DH NIGHT!(dr-house, doll-house).
dollhouse renuwal is not a surprise, we all knew that: the show is cheap, and they are going to make it cheaper! and fox likes the show (they likes eliza..)
28th july: dollhouse release for episode 13!!!
Okay, they all knew last week, but then they all keep telling us to campaign? I mean there have been messages from the actors (The new Dekker video, posted TODAY) and from the writers via twitter about this saying that they don’t know the show’s fate if they’ll be renewed. They all knew AND STILL kept encouraging us! All of them! Summer Glau, Dekker, Green, Ashley Miller, the whole gang!
Why would all of them do this? I mean if they’re all in this “conspiracy” they don’t work for Friedman now! They can open their mouths and tell the truth! I mean, dammit, why do this to us?!
Don’t they know how angry they’re going to make the fans? Each and every one of these people is going to be persona non grata among SCI-FI fandom in general, getting booed at conventions, hate mail, the whole nine yards. Why do this? Why act in such a way as to turn your ENTIRE fanbase against you, which is what they’ve done if they knew, and not only didn’t tell us, but encouraged us?!
Look, I’m sorry about the tone, but I’m more than a little angry here. I don’t like finding out I’ve been lied to, which is the case here. How did you find this information out?
Or as someone above suggested, WB is still screwing around trying to find another home for it, which is one reason they might not have told Halcyon or that Halcyon might not have told the actors?
Still, why wouldn’t someone SAY that? Just say, “OK, we’re dead at Fox, but the show is still in play at network X”? At least tell the staff!
I do suspect Halcyon is the source of this “not telling the people” bit. I think Nick C is right that Fox told WB and WB told Halcyon. But while WB is scrambling to find a way to keep the show alive – which is a dumb move anyway since the show as it stands is dead meat no matter where they put it – maybe Halcyon is not telling anybody.
WB should know by now that they can’t give this show away – certainly not in its present form.
And if Friedman is claiming he hasn’t made a formal pitch to Fox, how can they shop this crap show without him making a formal pitch to whatever network they’re considering offering it to? Nobody will touch it unless they know what the show will look like in season 3, based on the disaster the finale was – especially any network whose exec has a clue about what Terminator and science fiction are about (if there are any such execs, which I suppose is doubtful.)
When watching Hulu through “Playon,” (google it) you can check the view numbers of various shows. I don’t know how accurate those view numbers are, but Dollhouse has pretty good numbers. Almost every episode are around 430k. It pull numbers similar to Heroes. While TSCC is usually a little over 220k. Btw, the TSCC numbers are close to Southland numbers while Chuck is usually over 320k.
Anyway, if those are accurate, I can see how Fox can put Dollhouse ahead of TSCC.
Nick C: There’s no way this show can go on without Summer Glau – she’s in the FINALE, for Christ’s sakes, as Allison Young! Even if they kill off Cameron – which to some degree they have since her chip’s gone – she’s still in the show as another character! Friedman’s habit of “resurrecting” his “dead” characters means she can’t be dropped.
So there’s no way this show comes back in the fall. It would have to be in the winter after Summer’s done her movie and they sign her back up.
Of course, they could just try to replace her with some other actress. Good luck with that! She’s fifty percent of the show! The SyFy network will know that, too. So if she isn’t in it, there’s no way ANYBODY will take the show.
godfather, Summer has told people to campaign this week? Even though she’s going to be in a movie when a season 3 would be shooting? Are you sure?
The writers, etc. have nothing else to do but pray. It’s called denial, and it’s nothing new in Hollywood.
I saw the heading for this and peed my pants. That is all.
Plus, remember your campaign is like a reference for their resume.
I think Robert Seidman, Bill Gorman, and Nick C deserve to be on the Hollywood walk of fame lol
while dirtysexyj (who remembers her? lol) should be on the walk of shame.
oh we remember him…even miss him. kinda.
I reject this idea that Friedman ruined the show somehow. Season 2 was full of good episodes, and for all the crap Desert Cantos got, it was pretty highly rated and I really enjoyed it as well as “Some Must Watch…” Good Wound was fairly lackluster, and I thought the finale itself was overrated. But the worst episodes were better than the best episode of CSI or any of the reality shows.
It’s a hard show to jump into, and I originally didn’t even think the idea of a Terminator show sounded that great so there’s some things working against it. People looking for an action show were bound to be disappointed. But as I caught bits and pieces after watching the declining Prison Break, the quality of it sucked me in. It became my favorite show and I’ll be sad if it’s truly gone.
“renuwal is not a surprise”
ROFL
oh was it a he? lol
Isn’t he in debt to Nick C?
Nick C, my issue wasn’t whether what you said might be the true or not, only the weight that might be applied to it given the way it’s sometimes delivered and via, more or less, anonymous commenting on a blog.
There’s too many people “in the know” on the ‘nets to believe them all at face value. It’s great if you are correct.
Robert, you miss that check he promised!
Paul, the guys here deserve all the credit for the greatness of this site. The site and its index are what attracted me to it. I’ve had fun posting here since. Plus the regulars like Julia, Holly, etc. help make this place far better than what I provide.
Chris K, is Friedman the show runner?
Yes.
Has the show gone from 19 million viewers to 3 million viewers under his care?
Yes.
Who do you blame?
Nick C and Godfather: I don’t think Summer has said anything this week about the show. At least nothing has surfaced on the Summer-Glau.net Web site, the main fan site.
Dekker didn’t actually say anything about CONTINUING to campaign in his video today, he just thanked everybody for supporting the show. Then he called the Fox phone number for audience comments and recorded his own request to bring the show back. Knowing Dekker’s insanity, this was more likely mockery than anything real! Just watch him in the video! Dekker is a guy I like to call a “manic-depressive who is never depressed”! LOL
I’m sure he’s sincere when he says he liked working on the show, but I’m also sure he knows it’s over even if he swears he hasn’t been officially told it is.
What I still do NOT understand is why the actors haven’t been told by NOW – three days before the upfronts – at least that the show is not going to be picked up by Fox.
I know, When any posts have Bill, Robert, Nick or the ladies you mentioned above you can all but guarantee it’s accurate.
OTOH, DrHorrible is still campaigning: http://twitter.com/drhorrible/status/1810703642
Fox has basically cut a deal that includes: (1)storyline changes based on conversation with whedon (2) cost outlay changes.. not sure what’s involved there. A 13-ep, mid season type order with options, depending on how fall programming goes of a move up.
I stopped with TSCC on episode 10 of season 2, Friedman ruined it.
Not Summer, DEKKER today. But Summer said at Fedcon 2 weeks ago (which you said was when the cast/staff got the news) that she hasn’t heard anything but “But we have hope because our fans are incredibly creative and fight very hard for the future of the series” (her own words at FedCon). So, you can see why I’m getting mad here. For lack of a better term this is a conspiracy with all the actors, staff, and writers to get us to campaign when they know we’re practically shot.
There’s also this about her leaving the show, so I’m a little confused as to how they could possibly get someone else for Cameron, especially since Allison Young, a character she played too, is in the Future with John (so they can’t cut her out):
Q: You mentioned that the characters followed different directions. What is about
Cameron?
S: I don’t want to see Cameron leave and Josh promised me that it won’t happen.
Then there’s this about the movie you’re discussing:
Q: One last question: What will you do next? In which new project can we see you?
S: I just got an offer for a movie role. It’s a movie I want to play in at all costs. I won’t say which movie it is before I have more clarity if Terminator gets renewed in two weeks because then I couldn’t accept the role anyway. But I read the script and I was absolutely amazed. Right now, it’s very hard to go to meetings and look at things because the question is always if our series is cancelled. But I need to consider the possibility that it won’t go on and for this reason it’s comforting to me that I discovered this project last week.
Hey, since you know she’s cast, could you at least tell me what movie she’s in? Longtime Summer fan here, just want to know.
Nick C., Why won’t Fox move Dollhouse from Fridays and pair it with House or Bones?
Why won’t they give it a good lead-in like they do with Fringe? I just don’t understand it.
Any chance Summer could end up on Dollhouse. Whedon and Summer are very close aren’t they not ?TSCC could easily survive without Summer, so they lose a few of the fans that are obviously just Summer Glau Stalkers.
Chris K: As I’ve said repeatedly, TSCC had many good aspects even in season 2. The fans continually harp on those good aspects, while I continually harp on the bad aspects.
And the reason I do that is because it was the bad aspects that overpowered the good aspects and sunk the show.
And there’s nobody to blame for that except Friedman. If you’ve read his Wired piece, you’ll see he was off in la-la land in his conception of this show. He really had no clue how to do Terminator. He hired Shirley Manson without a single idea what to do with her character. He has no “street cred” for science fiction or network broadcasting at all. His “War of the Worlds” cred is for a script that WAS NEVER USED! He got the job out of pure BSing the execs apparently. He’s BSed the fans and the media ever since. I watched him BS everybody at WonderCon – pure, straight BS.
Sure, all the actors love him. He comes across as a really nice guy. But he’s a BS artist. He’s like Elwood Blues – “It’s not lies – it’s just BS.”
Does anyone know if Whedon will even be returning for a second season if any of this is true? If anything, he’s been sounding demoralized about the whole major network business for months now.
At least with Friedman et co. you can tell their hearts are in it.
Chris K, while I also don’t agree that Friedman ruined TSCC, I think he made some serious mistakes. He basically got a reprieve when Fox give them the back 9. And what does he do? He started with 3 slow moving episodes, including one full episode at a funeral, and finishing with one where half of the episode was a dream. WTF?
A reasonable person would have tried to use those 9 episodes to earn a 3rd season… pull out all the stops, use the best ideas they had planned for the next 4 season. Don’t hold anything back, and if they do get picked up, think of new ideas. But he stuck to his guns and the show bottomed out at 1.0 demo before it bounced back some.
Wow, way to screw viewers in the *ss Fox. WTF? I’m happy for Dollhouse fans but as a TSCC fan (and minimal TV viewer) I feel screwed. Very screwed. As far as campaigning goes, i’ve never done it for a show before but i’ve done it for this show. and i’ll continue to do it if it’s logical and if it can work. I read last night that the CW may be a target of a fan campaign come Monday if Fox passes on TSCC. I’ve looked at the numbers and it makes sense and i’d support a fan campaign lobbying for the CW to pick it up. I’d lobby with fans for that or SciFi. I’m very angry about this, about being led on for such a long time. I knew the chances were very slim but man…
Nick C, what’s with Fox picking up a bunch of WB produced shows? Is there some kind of deal going on? What’s with the rumors that Fox wants Dollhouse cheaper? Is that a sly way for them telling the WB ‘if you want TSCC on our network, cut the price or come up with a hell of a deal by 5/18?’ i hear the WB does want to keep a terminator show on the air as well. i dont know if it’s rumor or for real, i’m sure fox knows for sure. Could they be trying to force the WBs hand into giving them a killer deal?
While I’d like to believe a “Scrubs” reboot could be good, I’m extremely skeptical. Why on earth would they take a show any further after a great finale like that after eight years? So Chalke and Braff will make some appearances. That’s encouraging, I guess, but if Faison is a regular and Reyes is not, that will piss people off. You can’t have Turk be a regular and Carla not be unless Lawrence pulls some stupid ass move like having them get divorced and Lawrence knows how awful that would be. So I’m imagining they’d cajole Judy Reyes into occasional appearances as well, even though she wants to move forward with a Broadway career.
Why not leave a tender finale alone? Geez. Nobody learned anything from Dawn Ostroff’s 7th Heaven final season misadventure, I guess.
If they wanted to cancel TSCC for sure they would have done it more than a month ago, and not the same week that T4 comes out in theatres when the entire Terminator fanbase is as mobilized as ever.
This all makes sense ONLY if WB announces on Monday that TSCC will indeed continue on another network, thereby appeasing the fans before T4 comes out. If this isn’t the case, both FOX and WB will see some major backlash.
No leak 3 days far from the Fox infront …this should ring a bell ( the bell for a funeral I would say )
Even if Fox is in the same situation of NBC with Chuck , medium and so on …there is not even a rumour …
Max, you’re assuming they care. This is FOX. Since when has FOX ever cared about fans to this extent?
Max Sleven, no that’s not the only way it makes sense. Sometimes, a network simply won’t officially announce cancelation at all. They’ll just let it sit in limbo until all the contracts run out. Sci Fi did this recently with The Dresden Files. They never officially canceled the series, they simply never called anyone back to work.
I still have 7 episodes of Dollhouse to catch up on and 9 episodes of Lost, in fact most of my favourite shows i have the back 1/3 of the seasons to watch due to revising, is Dollhouse worth me watching the rest?
UH yeah, there’d be SOME news about this. There isn’t. That’s the biggest sign TSCC is dead.
And dammit, if those…jerks…(trying to control language here) knew the entire time and encouraged us to campaign anyway? MY WRATH WILL KNOW NO BOUNDS.
Seriously, I’ll get so mad I’ll stop being a fan. I’ll buy the DVD set but that’s it.
Hey Nick, did you get my last question, about Summer’s movie? What has she been cast in? I’d like to know as a fan.
Dollhouse? Really? And why are the comments spread over 4 pages?
No what I mean is the fans will consider it cancelled and will rally if FOX drops it from the schedule and no news comes from WB. There won’t need to be an official cancellation confirmation. Even if FOX doesn’t care about fans GF, WB has to know and WB has to care because it is their franchise and their movie that’s coming out. They could have announced something earlier and let the rage settle before T4.
PAUL yes its worth it just pay attention to it……………….btw change the comment style back
Paul, you are right now coming up to the really good part of the Dollhouse season. I think you should definitely give it a try.
Oh, Nick C., one thing: Sci-Fi broadcasts its series in the Summer and January. I assume this means a different production schedule than for broadcast, yes? I mean, if the premiere would be February and the show is somehow revived on a Cable network (I KNOW IT’S A PIPE DREAM, AND HIGHLY UNLIKELY DON’T JUMP ALL OVER ME), they could shoot new episodes in October and premiere the show in February. Summer, presumably, would be done shooting her movie. No problem then, right?
Guys, by the way, you must be having a ton of trouble with the site, because the layout, backgrounds, and pictures have changed 3 times for me with Mozilla Firefox.
This is like an acid trip, the Web Page version…
Godfather, we’re making some changes to try an isolate our load problems. Among them, we’re changing the theme.
If it’s really like an acid trip, I’m glad I missed out on the LSD.
It was either going to be “acid trip” or “especially strange breed of weed.”
Not like I use either, you understand…
AND WHERE’S MY DVR NUMBERS?!
I’m kind of an emotional mess now, Bill, as I’m sure you can imagine. I meant what I said when I’ve never campaigned for a series before, ever. I wrote letters, sent emails, participated in polls, the whole nine yards. I knew TSCC was in trouble, and I started watching anyway late in the Fall, mainly because of some comments I saw here and over at IGN.com. This whole thing feels like falling in love with a terminal patient and now I’m at the point where I know they’re really going to die. There’s nothing I can do about it and it breaks my heart.
Then to top it all off Nick tells me that Friedman and the actors knew for weeks it was gone and encouraged people like me to campaign anyway. That’s a betrayal, and if it’s true, you have no idea how angry I’m going to be. It’s why I have to know how you know Nick. But since I know you’ve got sources you won’t compromise, could you at least tell me the name of the movie Summer’s now cast in? I am a longtime fan, as I said and I just really want to know. It’s part of trying to move on for me.
Godfather, I missed a lot of the commenting today, but if campaigning was urged by Friedman it isn’t particularly unusual for a marginal show, at least in the last few years in our experience.
Bill, no it wasn’t that he urged campaigning, it’s that he urged campaigning knowing it didn’t matter and FOX was going to axe the show. And not just him, several cast members (Brian Austin Green, Summer Glau, Thomas Dekker) and several writers all encouraged everyone, to the point of linking to polls and fan videos supporting the series.
If they all knew and told us to campaign anyway, well… you can imagine how angry we’re going to get. They knew we were wasting our time and encouraged us regardless. Joss Whedon at least had the guts to tell his fans the truth with Firefly and Dollhouse when things looked bad.
Nick C. Do hear any news about V? Will be Pick up?
I’ll ask it again, Why won’t Fox move Dollhouse from Fridays and pair with House or Bones
Max Sleven, you’re just looking at it from the POV of a fan who wants to know. It’s not to FOX or WB’s benefit to “announce” a cancelation and the idea that the series being missing from the network is going to effect the movie is fairly groundless.
I saw/read very little from Friedman, or his even from his Twitter page. There was a response to the Eonline poll, some shots at Ausiello, and the “haven’t spoken with Fox in weeks” line.
Fox may as well say it was the cost and DVDs. It wasn’t DVR playback, iTunes, or silly online polls.
The bright side of all this, it means one less hour of reality TV.
If they bring Dullhouse back it got to be on another night. FOX must be mental to being it back at all.
How is it groundless? TSCC has fans in over 30 countries, all of which will have T4 in theatres. If WB is seen as having contributed to the stringing along of TSCC fans this whole time, it’s very realistic that a big number of ppl will be too angry to watch T4 in theatres and will insterad just get pirated version off the net or from their local Chinatown. There is also gonna be loads of hatemail and bad press coming WB’s way.
Folden you’re probably right. Simply put there’s not enough fans around to make a difference either way. FOX doesn’t want the hassle of tons of negative email and maybe even picketers, and WB cares much, much more about the movie than the series. No announcement or “leak” is the path of least resistance.
Yeah the DVR playback bit is BS Chad. TSCC had equal numbers in that department in terms of viewer gain in millions and in the demos. It wasn’t any better than its lead-in, so Hibberd’s speculation on that score is meaningless, completely meaningless. I can’t mean anything for TSCC and be a selling point for Dollhouse.
I guess he’s looking for reasons himself because outside of cost, there’s no reason to bring Dollhouse back at all. If anything, Prison Break should have destroyed whatever chance it had, as the crash in ratings without TSCC demonstrated that the show can’t survive without a SCI-FI lead in.
I suggested long ago that Summer could end up on Dollhouse. in fact, I wanted to ask her that as a second question at WonderCon, but I was limited to one question.
However, given that Summer is arguably more popular than Eliza Dushku (and arguably a better actress as well) and that Eliza is an Executive Producer on Dollhouse, I wonder if there might be more than a little friction if Joss tries to put Summer on the show. There might also be issues in determining what sort of role she would fit. He can’t give her a minor role like Dichan Lachman. While Summer might go for it in order to work with him again, neither her agent nor the fans would like it. And she can’t replace Eliza.
So I really doubt Summer could go to Dollhouse.
Godfather: On rethinking, I suspect that the cast really don’t understand where TSCC is with regard to its overall status, even if they’ve been told Fox isn’t picking it up. I can also see them being lied to about it by Friedman – if that’s who they’re listening to. As I’ve said, it’s clear he’s a BS artist.
Also, keep in mind that actors are like any other corporate employee – you can’t badmouth the boss in public. Poor Summer kept looking at Josh while trying to answer my question at WonderCon – she obviously didn’t want to look like she was being critical of him in public.
RSH, I’m with you, I also can’t see where Summer would fit in Dollhouse. I one-episode thing wouldn’t really be it, neither would having her not be a doll. She’d have to have at least a multi-episode arc as a doll. But that would seriously interfere with Eliza. Even having Amy Acker be a doll is a bit dangerous from this perspective.
Max Sleven, the amount of TSCC fans is meaningless compared to the amount of people who will watch the terminator movie. Most of the movie fans never cared for the show to begin with.
bwhahahaha!! That latest theme change is a doozy!
Gonna be using a text only browser on this site next!
RSH actually my impression of that exchange was Summer not being sure of what she should say in public and looking to Josh for support. I mean it’s not like her character survived the finale intact! She was (spoiler alert) deactivated, bodiless, and in the hands of another machine in a future without John Connor, and the character got the hell beat out of her in a shootout. I’m sure she didn’t want to reveal any of this. Besides, a shootout qualifies as exciting, and what happens to Cameron at the end is pretty sad (which is what Summer said if I recall). Unless you’re a mind reader, I could be right and you could be wrong, and vice versa. It’s entirely subjective opinions on both our parts, and we’ll never know the truth about it all unless we ask later (when Summer doesn’t work for Friedman anymore).
People still haven’t answered my question as to why Fox won’t move Dollhouse to another night and pair it with a good lead-in.
One more comment, I swear. I hope Summer’s movie career kicks off instead, she can do better than Dollhouse. Now if the show focuses more on Acker and Lachman, I might watch.
As for T4, I’m still interested. I think Bale is really overacting though.
Godfather, I don’t know where you’re getting weeks from. Summer’s agent found out last weekend that he could get Summer in the movie. The agent mentioned the movie name to me, but I can’t recall it at this moment. I’ll make sure and find out. However, I’m sure they’ll announce it officially on Monday when they can.
Victor Hugo, V was looking good last week. However Kevin Johnson has a movie version in the works (the creator of the series) and ABC had a few panels upset with the new Diana and male news reporter “relationship,” so… it could be a mid-season pickup if they really want changes. I haven’t heard it mentioned this week, but that doesn’t mean much of anything because I wasn’t really pursuing info on it. It wasn’t on the last schedule I saw for the Fall.
Richard Steven Hack, Glau isn’t a bigger draw than Dushku and Dushku doesn’t have any huge ego problems. If Summer and Joss wanted it to happen I’m sure Eliza would embrace it. She’s a pretty cool gal.
Godfather, yes, part of that was her not wanting to drop spoilers. But I phrased my question very, very carefully. I just asked her if she LIKED where her character ends up. I wasn’t asking her to reveal anything, and I think she understood that.
But the huge sigh, the shoulder drop and the happy face made with hands pretty much told the tale. She wasn’t happy. She did NOT like where Cameron ended up. And that implies criticism of her boss, which she’s too nice and too much a good employee to do in public. I’m certain she really likes Josh, she’s said so before. So she’s never going to say anything bad about him – even if he deserves it.
TSCC has millions of fans in over 30 countries which translates into hundreds of millions of dollars. Dollhouse has no international following.
IT’S RENEWED. IT’S IN FELICIA DAY’S TWITTER!!!
YAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
omg thank you! love dollhouse!
The Live Feed just reported that FOX renewed Dollhouse.
http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/05/dollhouse-second-season.html
Nick C: I’d question that comparison of Glau vs Dushku. Maybe two years ago Summer wasn’t bigger than Eliza – but she sure as hell is now, thanks to TSCC. Check out the “Hot Babes” lists coming out from all the men’s mags in the last few weeks. Summer is high up on a lot of them – and beats out Dushku on some. She wasn’t even ON the lists a year or two ago. Although she’s only 87 on the Maxim Hot 100 and Dushku is number 6. But then, that list is seriously weird! It seems anybody who was on TV last week beats out far superior babes on that list.
I think Eliza is cool, but really we’re talking about putting someone on the show who would seriously detract from the show being Eliza’s vehicle – which IS what the show was supposed to be. As someone else pointed out, even having Amy Acker, who is very popular, on the show only works because the role is minor. And as I pointed out, you couldn’t put Summer in a minor role in that show because 1) the fans wouldn’t like it, and 2) neither Joss, Summer or her agent would like it. Summer got sidelined too much in TSCC as it was. So she’d have to be put in a role where she gets more screen time than the other Dolls (and possibly not even as a Doll at all).
It’s possible, and it definitely would improve the ratings, but I’d have to wait and see how they do it.
“Dollhouse has no international following.”
I’m from Portugal.
I follow Dollhouse.
So, Dollhouse has international following.
Also, it’s a new show. I mean, you can’t compare a show that’s been around for 3 years with a show that just got here. Give it time.
“Chris K, is Friedman the show runner?
Yes.
Has the show gone from 19 million viewers to 3 million viewers under his care?
Yes.
Who do you blame?”
I’m not looking to blame anyone. I know ratings and quality aren’t always related. Dancing with the Stars gets huge ratings, which I’ll never understand.
I know some didn’t like the Sarah arc. I did, outside “The Good Wound.” I don’t really get saying that Friedman squandered chances. He wanted to tell those stories, and so did the writers. That’s about all you can ask of anyone. If you’re making a show you’re not interested in, what’s the point? It’s certainly the right of people not to like it, or to want more action.
As far as I’m concerned, TSCC and Lost are the best sci-fi shows since X-Files. I admit it tripped up here and there (the 3 dots stuff)but all shows have ups and downs. Even Lost did in Season 3. I don’t understand what else people wanted out of it, given the limited budget.
RSH, if it fit the budget Eliza wouldn’t say no to anything that would help her show. She’s very cool and really wouldn’t care.
RSH, her character is left in a miserable state at the end of the season/series (I don’t mean creatively, I mean she’s in effect disembodied right now). If you knew the ratings were poor and the show’s survival prospects were bad next year, and a character you loved playing was left in a state that would never be resolved from the look of things, you’d probably be upset/sad too. I know I would. That could be what she was feeling.
Again, it’s subjective. You have no way of knowing you’re right, I have no way of knowing I’m right. I saw the video and I saw the question, I saw Summer’s face, and I drew different conclusions. Unless one of us is a mind reader, we have no way of knowing who’s right and we both presented reasoned arguments that explain her reaction. Ultimately neither you nor I will know the truth of this.
Nick C., Summer said she had the movie offer already at FedCOn in Germany 2 weeks ago, when she said she didn’t know TSCC’s fate. I know I’m being a real pain here, but I’d really appreciate it if you could tell me the project. As you can imagine I’m feeling pretty badly right now and I just want some scrap of good news to hold on to. Summer seemed really enthusiastic about the movie in her interview and I’d just like to know what it is. Could you find out? Please?
Nick C. Thanks for the information.
The_GodfatherSJP, get a grip with you being “deceived”. No one deceived you, even if Friedman was told that Fox wasn’t going to pick it up. Even so, if a campaign is done well, some times in very very rare cases this decisions can be changed, and that’s what we as fan should hope for. Also, wether Fox decides to bring it back or not is irrelevant to wether a campaign should be done to try and save a show you like as there are other networks with some interest in the show.
So get a grip.
This was always a long shot, and wether Friedman deceived you or not should be completely irrelevant to a decision of a fanbase to campaign for a show to get renewed.
Castle also renewed apparently:
http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/05/abc-renews-castle-orders-two-towns.html
“I don’t really get saying that Friedman squandered chances. He wanted to tell those stories, and so did the writers. That’s about all you can ask of anyone. If you’re making a show you’re not interested in, what’s the point? It’s certainly the right of people not to like it, or to want more action.”
You’re missing the point. Friedman’s job as show runner is to insure the show stays on the air making money for the network and thus the studio he works for.
He failed on all counts. He was TOLD by Fox not to do those slow moving Sarah episodes in the back nine. He did it anyway.
I really feel towards the end – especially having seen that hideous finale – that he and the writers really intended to “burn down the frakkin’ barn” as he put in on his blog. In other words, deliberately sabotage the show so no one else could pick it up and do anything with it.
That finale really does that. They nail down so much stuff in that finale in a way that makes zero sense but prevents anybody from modifying the show in a season 3 to make more sense. It really strikes me as deliberate sabotage.
This is why I say only a total reboot of the show – as if TSCC never existed – can possibly enable WB to get a Terminator show on the air between Terminator movies. And I do think WB wants that. It would be smart of them to do that, good PR.
But Friedman ruined it. If WB doesn’t blacklist his butt, I’ll be very surprised.
Max Sleven…
I’m in the UK and LOVE Dollhouse. My family in Ireland LOVE Dollhouse. I have many, MANY friends here in England who are addicted to DH, and it’s not even aired on a UK network yet.
SCC was ok. But I stopped watching about two or three episodes into season two, just because I missed it one week and never EVER felt the compulsion to catch up. I just ended up…not giving a damn about any of the non-Glau characters. A shame, but there it is.
Dollhouse on the other hand… I was setting alarms on Saturday mornings to get the next stream as quickly as possible, I ended up that hooked. If it had been canceled i’d have been distraught.
This is great, GREAT news. Never thought i’d say this, but…
…thank you Fox.
That felt weird.
REAPER too. Genre shows rule.