I’m still digesting the FOX schedule announcements but offer the following early thinking:
- Trying So You Think You Can Dance in the fall makes a lot of sense to me. It’s a gamble, but I understand it both in terms of trying to bolster Glee, and lower cost with potential for decent ratings. SYTYCD doesn’t need to do as well as American Idol. It doesn’t need to do even half as well.
- I like the “everybody lies” Monday lineup of House and Lie To Me.
- Fringe on Thursdays will be fun. I imagine people will be following this closely. For me it shows FOX is really serious about wanting a stable Thursday night lineup. How well will it work out? We’ll see, but Fringe doesn’t need to beat Grey’s Anatomy, CSI (assuming CSI still airs Thursdays at 9p) or The Office in the demo to satisfy FOX. How well it does need to do will be the subject of some debate. But I really am fine with waiting until the fall to have that debate.
- ‘Til Death as Dollhouse’s lead-in: the whole thing just makes me smile really. It’s amusing. I’m now certain FOX’s decisions with regard to Friday were about a flight to lower cost and higher benefit, though I believe FOX when it says that scripted shows carry higher CPMs., scripted shows with very low ratings won’t wind up making more money than unscripted shows with higher ratings (more viewers offset lower CPMS), but FOX probably figured if there wasn’t going to be much difference in the number of viewers, might as well go the lower cost, higher CPM route.
- While I buy that DVR viewing did increase Dollhouse’s cumulative numbers, I still do not buy it being a primary factor in FOX’s decision to renew Dollhouse. I’m not sure I buy it being any factor at all. I buy Dollhouse being a lower cost/higher benefit option for FOX. TSCC’s cumulative numbers increased about as much as Dollhouse’s with DVR viewing. But TSCC cost more, and since it was WB produced there was no potential benefit at all to FOX with regard to DVD, international, online and syndication. Bottom line if it’s cheap enough, FOX will air it (hello, ‘Til Death!), TSCC wasn’t cheap enough, Dollhouse was and with added benefit potential. Is FOX betting on Joss Whedon? Sure, they are. But it seems a low cost, low risk bet from FOX’s perspective.
Maybe it’s just me, but I think I see an unfortunate typo in the first line of the last paragraph, right before that first comma.
are you 12? If so, it’s not just you. Dicey abbreviation, but I’ve gone non-abbreviated so as to not encourage the Beavis-minded.
People seem upset about ‘Til Death as a lead-in for Dollhouse, but it’s worth remembering that, in the final issue of your “Renew/Cancel” index, ‘Til Death had an index of 0.67, while Dollhouse only had a 0.56 and TSCC had an astonishingly low 0.47…TSCC was completely flat-lined, which probably harmed Dollhouse substantially…it’s hard to imagine ‘Til Death doing any worse damage as a lead-in.
Jimmy, true, though ‘Till Death wasn’t airing on Friday, where it likely would’ve done even worse.
Fringe – don’t care – it was too much like X-files (to me anyways)
Sarah Conner – really wished this one came back the most…but still have a trilogy of movies of it with the first one out this week…
Dollhouse- I’ll take it…well it’s something for us to watch on Fri’s instead of racing to the video store for the hot new movie at Blockbuster or Red Box and them always being out.
Lol, I’m not 12–I’m 13!
Just kidding. I had never seen that abbreviation for cumulative. I thought it was “CPM” mistyped, although I found myself wondering why none of the letters were capitalized in that one instance. Anyway, never underestimate the potential of a dirty word to derail a conversation, especially when irate T:SCC fans are bound to line up to use it in a “creative” insult.
Anyway, more on topic: Dollhouse sure surprised a lot of people by being renewed, and the pairing of ‘Til Death with Dollhouse ended up being even more of a surprise. I wonder if FOX is treating Fridays as a low-stakes experiment, just to see how different kinds of shows are likely to do on Fridays?
hope Fringe does well and Dollhouse; I think Dollhouse is FOX’s new commitment to taming bad Fridays.
Variety and others use ‘cume’ for an abbreviated cumulative…fyi
Robert, I’m sure Dollhouse will be last year’s Terminator. But seriously what else was expected for fridays. It seemed obvious that Dollhouse would stay at 9, and FOX has just happened to renew Til Death for 22 episodes. Its no surprise that Til Death would be propped up with a new series (Brothers), along with Dollhouse to create a nice 2 hour burn off night for FOX. This friday schedule is reminiscent to the one during the 2005-2006 season. Where the two veteran comedies Malcolm and Bernie Mac were aired at 8 followed by killer Instinct. That year, Instinct was cancelled and Malcolm was moved to burn off its remaining episodes.
Its also similar to the projected midseason schedule for last year, where FOX had planned to move Til Death and Do Not Disturb to fridays at 8 and air Bones at 9. of course Disturb was axed, Death was pulled, and Bones was convieniently moved to Thursdays. Expect Dollhouse to air all 13 Season 2 episodes from September to December, and then for the series to be axed.
Robert: If SYTYCD doesn’t need to do half as well as AI, how will this be a boost to Glee?
Also, what do you mean by Fringe not needing the demos of the competing shows to please FOX?
What was CPM again?
Andrea, a 3.5 and a show that is “performance/talent” themed makes a better lead-in than some other show with a 2.5 rating.
As for the other, what do you think I meant? If Fringe pulls somewhere in the 2.7 area and comes in fourth place from 9p-9:30, I don’t think FOX is going to be upset.
CPM = cost per thousand (mille)
Are ‘Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader?’ and ‘Don’t Forget the Lyrics’ done?
I think this season may have shown that trying to second guess Fox on Dollhouse at least might not be the best move so I’m not touching that one.
I will say that I agree moving SYTYCD seems like a good move for Fox, although the anti-reality folks will obviously be up in arms about it I think it makes sense and I quite like the Dance/Idol rotation it sets up. The bigger question will be how it handles being on the same schedule as Dancing With The Stars, too many prime time dancing shows at once maybe? Of course its possible that Fox will just dent Dancing With The Stars further with this.
Fringe on Thursday is going to be interesting. I think it’ll do ok.
And as I said in the Fox schedule post I love the House/Lie To Me line-up on Monday. That’s a fantastic night in terms of compatible shows.
“Andrea, a 3.5 and a show that is “performance/talent” themed makes a better lead-in than some other show with a 2.5 rating.” — I see, okay.
“As for the other, what do you think I meant? If Fringe pulls somewhere in the 2.7 area and comes in fourth place from 9p-9:30, I don’t think FOX is going to be upset.”
You just restated your original point. I’m questioning why you think FOX will be happy with this? Is it because of the lower threshold for ratings?
Costs pr mile – sounds like they are building a car.
Marc Berman calls FOX’s schedule “lazy”.
Nikki Finke has new info on the CBS pickups. Even worse zzz… than the FOX pickups.
The only daring network seems to be ABC!
i call marc berman a fool so to each their own.
Andrea, they will be happy because the lineup will be an improvement over this.
The Fringe move is reminiscent of The OC move to Thursdays in its second season, a decent show with buzz with a potential to grow in its second season that got murdered by the intense competition on Thursdays and died a slow steady death
I guess that SYTYCD could be a good move cost-wise (I guess all the nets are firmly on the cost-is-king-this-year bandwagon), but 2 hrs on Tuesday and 3 hrs a week? That is a LOT for a network that only airs between 8-10. If they weren’t as far ahead and #1 as they are, perhaps it could be viewed as a Leno-type decision, but as things stand I think 3hrs risks a lot of audience erosion.
last fall quite often 2 hours of the schedule was dedicated to Kitchen Nightmares (new episode/repeat_. Having three hours of SYTYCD, even with the extra hour seems fairly low risk comparatively speaking. Perhaps that comparison is like saying getting a splinter is better than stepping on a nail, one is better than the other though neither are optimal. But as long as they are at least on the path to optimizing, it’s hard to find fault.
Wouldn’t it make more sense putting SYTYCD on Thursdays?
Exactly Robert. Last year (and 2 years before that) I worked at a FOX affiliate, and I gotta tell you – 4Q was not our (meaning: FOX’s) strong spot. We destroyed in 18-49 from 1Q-3Q, with the fall being our weakest. So to maybe get a head start in the A18-49 ratings race, it makes sense to have SYTYCD on in the fall. It doesn’t need to win the TP, but it needs to steal market share. Hell, we haven’t gotten huge numbers in the fall for 4-ish years. We got a taste of that with the Smarter/Lyrics when it was intially on Thursdays, and were happy; so why not do that in a quarter where we really don’t have much. Even Primetime in No Time doesn’t cover FOX in the fall.
My only fear is that if this doesn’t work, it could really hit FOX’s 18-49. We killed 3Q (the summer) with SYTYCD and Hell’s Kitchen. So now that both of those shows air fall and spring, that leaves summer without any proven performers.
Dollhouse. The show everyone wanted back but nobody will watch.
Sometimes it feels like people enjoy the act of complaining more than the thing they are complaining about. Dollhouse is popular because it’s Whedon, but it fell on its face because it simply isn’t a good show. My bet is that it will get even lower ratings than last season.
Normally I would applaud a SYTYCD edition in the fall, since it’s almost a guaranteed 3+ demo, and cheap to boot. HOWEVER, the fact that the fall edition will be airing right after the summer edition leads me to believe that there’s going to be big-time burnout. I don’t know how receptive the audience would be to two back to back SYTYCD cycles — I doubt even American Idol could pull that off, so I’m not sure why Fox thinks SYTYCD will do well.
Frankly, I think the only reason SYTYCD does so well over the summer is because of the lack of summertime original programming — once it faces “real” fall competition, I have the feeling the show will sink and drag down “Glee” with it. I think it’s a lot bigger of a risk than maybe Robert thinks (IMHO), only because “Glee’s” fate is riding on the success of SYTYCD this fall.
I wonder if Fringe’s competition on Thursdays will be Supernatural more than Grey’s or CSI? I watch both shows and would hate to see either one decline in ratings.
Have to say, it seems like Fox took one of my suggestions on board (from tvbtn a while ago) and have created a “British evening” with the double header of Lie to Me and House, starring the equally excellent Messrs Tim Roth and Hugh Laurie, respectively. I hope this is good news for Lie to Me, given that House has been such a ratings success since its Pilot episode.
Also, I am very pleased that Fox have finally confirmed House’s sixth season because it would have been nothing short of insanity to cancel the highest rated scripted drama they have. Congratulations to everyone on House, still my favourite show on TV with Lie to Me not that far behind.
Anon- You have a good point. I was worried about that too. Last comic Standing tried the summer-show-now-in-fall, and it was cancelled before the winner of Season 3 was announced (the winner was announced during the commercial break of that computer-animated show about Lions).
Kathy- I don’t think “competition” is the right word, since it is comparing FOX to CW. I think even if some of the Fringe audience picks Supernatural over Fringe, FOX will STILL get way bigger numbers. It’s all about stealing market share, and with Grey’s and CSI posting their lowest numbers, the time is right.
Dave-
House has been pretty much a sure thing ever since they signed the amazing Hugh for a couple more seasons.
@nkinsey, it was still nice to see House in print for the fall season because Fox had said nothing at all about it. As a Brit, I am delighted that both Tim Roth and Hugh Laurie are leads in shows that are doing very well in the States. I’ve always rated them both very highly, particularly Hugh Laurie for his comic timing and the musical ability he infrequently displays on House. Hugh Laurie is a legend over here, we only wish that Stephen Fry could cameo on House because that would be the quintessential “very special episode”.
Also, just having thought it, and this is probably one for Bill and/or Robert, I notice that NBC’s “My Name Is Earl” is not on either Fox schedule. I was under the (misguided?) impression that if NBC decided to cancel “Earl”, even though it’s so close to the magical 100 episodes for syndication, that Fox would pick it up. Do you think we could assume that NBC will be renewing “Earl”, even it’s just for a fall season or the 6 episodes it needs to get that magical 100? I’d welcome some opinions on that, if people wouldn’t mind indulging me.
Urkel, there was a lot of criticism of Dollhouse- I’ve heard it compared to the Reader: what Kate Winslet’s character did to those women and what Adelle & co. did to Sierra were monstrous but in both cases we’re not supposed to see them as evil people. Some people might like it but both shows did horribly in the US.
Dave, NBC hasn’t announced either way on Earl yet, so FOX can’t pick it up until NBC decides to cancel it. NBC’s upfront is tomorrow, so we should know by then what NBC’s decision is.
Funny bit about dollhouse renewal.
http://www.pvponline.com/
CBS is probably very happy with the SYTYCD schedule.
NCIS and The Mentalist finaly reaching 20 million and mid 4s in the demo. NCIS spin-off 15 million and mid 3s.
I think the fall schedule makes sense. Theres a lot of compatible shows and nothing that doesn’t make sense. The combos of House/Lie to Me look good as does Bones/Fringe and SYTYCD/Glee. SYTYCD being on Tuesdays this fall doesn’t have to be a bad thing necessarily.
Or Tom CBS’ reaction is the exact opposite and they’re concerned that So You Think You Can Dance will be Dancing with the Stars on Tuesday and hit NCIS and The Mentalist (assuming they both stay on Tuesday) and then when they get rid of Dance, Idol comes along in the same spot.
Alex, NCIS and Mentalist went up against Idol this season and were fine, so I don’t think CBS has much to worry about unless SYTYCD suddenly becomes bigger than Idol.
Alex, SYTYCD is not DWTW. It’s a summer talent show that will fail misrably that it could even be pulled off schedule. The only reason people think it could work it’s because SYTYCD is on FOX.
Can you imagine America’s Got Talent (or what ever it’s called) doing well in the fall even though it has the same if not better ratings than SYTYCD?
Dave, I could go for a Stephen Fry-Hugh episode too and I’m not British.
It’d be awesome if Fry came in for a few episodes as some sort of a doctor and competition with Hugh with them taking jabs at each other. Pipe dream, probably, but still cool to think about. How much longer is Hugh signed up for anyway? That’s by far my favorite show on air now and I’d like them to go for at least a couple more.
Dave-Someone already said it, but I’ll rephrase. It is not looking good at all for Earl on NBC. I don’t know if it will/won’t be cancelled, but if I were to guess, I’d say it’s not going to be on there. IF FOX picks it up, it will probably be a midseason order to fulfill the 100 episode mark. That way, they can continue to make residual money from syndication. I don’t see them putting the show on Mon-Thursday though.
TomSD-America’s Got Talent started running into the fall season last year. Look for it to go well into August-Sept again this year.
third- I think he signed for two seasons. Granted, it was a Hugh Laurie contract, not a House contract. But still…
@thirdsaint, I read somewhere (but can’t find the source) that Hugh Laurie had signed an exclusive contract with Fox that would guarantee he would be on House for 8 seasons. After all, House *is* Hugh Laurie. He’s the only reason I watch the show, even though Robert Sean Leonard is terrific too. Have to say though, with Bones getting an extra 2 seasons, I’m surprised House didn’t get something similar. Regarding Stephen Fry, I’m sure the plan was to give him at least a cameo on House, but it fell through and he became Booth’s shrink on Bones. Seeing as Fry is in the States quite a bit, I’d like to think Laurie will be using his executive producer clout to get his best friend on the show. As far as British TV is concerned, the Fry and Laurie double act has always been guaranteed ratings (e.g. A Bit Of Fry & Laurie, Blackadder, etc.) so I have no doubt if Fox could arrange it, and give Fry a multi-episode arc, it would be huge. Mega huge.
@nkinsey, I get that feeling too about Earl. I was kind of hoping Fox would have picked it up (which they may still do) and put it on their Sunday night schedule, most likely as a lead-in to The Simpsons, Family Guy, Cleveland, American Dad, etc. It couldn’t do any worse than that woeful animated school thing which got cancelled after 4 episodes. Anyway, I know the Earl cliffhanger wasn’t as earth-shattering as either Bones or Fringe, particularly Fringe’s (which blew my mind), but I’ve been with Earl since the Pilot and I would like to see it end properly, even if only enough episodes are made to get it to 100. But even I’ll admit, Earl’s best days are behind it.
When Reilly talked about reasons for renewing Dollhouse, he specifically cited the fact that it, and I quote, “consistently cued up as one of the biggest time-shifted shows on the air. So we’re placing our bet on Joss that he’ll keep it going next year.”
After that blatant, straightforward statement, how can you still hesitate to buy DVR viewing as a factor at all?
Buh-Bye Dollhouse and Til Death. Cheap junk over quality.
I’m sorry to the Whedon fans, but Dollhouse was nothing compared to Angel, Buffy, or even had the potential of Firefly.
Dushku cannot carry a show, end of story.
Jason, because it seems so unlikely that it’s really true (edit: it’s definitely true, it seems unlikely that it’s true that it was an influencing factor). Same with all that blah blah about the core Whedon fans who would’ve sent 100s of e-mails to FOX by the morning had the show been canceled.
If those things were truly important, TSCC would be back. I still think cost/benefit is far more important (particularly, in this case, cost). Ask FOX how much more revenue they made on Dollhouse as a result of DVR viewing. You’ll be waiting a while for an answer. I’m sure they did make slightly more with the DVR viewers due to remote free limited commercial interruptions, but this was about costs.
Dave- If FOX does pick it up, expect it to either either Fridays, or sometime in their Sunday 7-8p (probably 7:30, but who knows, may end up taking the whole hour to get them over with). To be honest, I’m surprised they didn’t just unload Til Death on Sundays 7 of 7:30. That’s what I would have done. But I know it’s about money, and 7-8 is fine for reruns.
Jason- Execs sugar-coat. And by sugar-coat, I mean lie. For Dollhouse, it’s not about fan bases. They only way the die-hard (read: small) fanbase would influence this show, is if Dollhouse merchandise was a huge seller. Have you SEEN any DH merch around? I haven’t. No Dollhouse headache medicine, no “Dollhouses Guide to: Being a Hostage Negotiator” book series, no fan mags, nothing. Like Robert said, this is about cost-cutting. Cutting the cost of a returning show is incredibly cheaper than paying development for a new show.
Since the subject of Stephen Fry guesting on House came up I thought I’d pass along some information on that very subject gleamed from an interview Stephen Fry recently did where the subject came up. Essentially Fry said that Laurie has always claimed he wants him to guest star but that they’ve never been able to match up the schedules to make it work. He had originally hoped that he’d be able to piggyback a guest spot on House onto the filming one of his episodes of Bones (the two shows shoot on the same lot apparently) and go right from shooting Bones to shooting House but that didn’t work out schedule wise.
In terms of who he’d play they’ve both apparently keen on the idea of him being the ‘anti-House’ – an excellent diagnostician who is insufferably nice to people. He has however said that he doesn’t think he’d play a patient, presumably because he wouldn’t get to work with Hugh enough and that would kind of defeat the purpose of it.
I don’t know how much of an event Stephen Fry as a guest star would really be for anything more than a small number of people.
To weigh in on the DVR & Dollhouse debate, it seems to me it is not purely about cost: it’s also about the studio’s ability to make money on it. (That intersects with cost, bc studio can cut the price for the network, but it’s not exactly the same issue). The high DVR viewing *is* an indication that the show has a loyal fan-base, people more likely to buy DVDs, or downloads. Or, should the second season work, action figures
I don’t think this show would have been renewed if it was produced by a different studio, but this decision means money for Fox in one form or another. And I do think that’s a key difference between it and Terminator. (Plus, TSCC didn’t pitch the “we can make it for nothing” as far as I know).
I’m sure, for example, that’s partly why the network is refusing to say that they will show the mysterious 13th episode, despite the fact they seem to have decided to buy it. Having it as a (possible) DVD exclusive could drive up studio income significantly.
In the press release, Fox also make a lot of the young, college-educated demographic. Now the release is aimed at advertisers, so it’s more about selling the decision than explaining why they made it, but I’m sure that demo helped a bit as well.
What I think is interesting about the whole season is the trend towards cheap over high-rated. While some of this is just down to the recession, I think it also reflects the fact that as the whole advert revenue pie shrinks, the relative size of the slice any given show gets you is going to become less important. Which means I think the trend of cheaper TV is probably going to accelerate.
Final thought on the economic climate: I would have thought in abstract, that Friday viewership would go up as people have less money. Of course, a growing demographic of poor unemployed Friday night viewers probably doesn’t set the advertisers worlds alight.
I appreciate that you were fair to TSCC in your analysis. I didn’t get the feeling that you were being fair prior to the unfortunate cancellation. I definitely think the DVR and online viewings argument CANNOT be made for Dollhouse any more than for TSCC. It was all about profit-potential for FOX studios.
I expect that Dollhouse will be pulled before it finishes its run in the Fall.
I am rejoining the discussion long after this question was asked. While Reilly definitely included timeshifted viewing in one of several answers to different variants of the “WTF, why did you renew Dollhouse?” questions, my distinct impression that everything that came out of his mouth on each occasion was simply a smokescreen. “We’re making a bet on Joss”, indeed. That is simply a meaningless answer.
If in fact, as we have heard from folks, that the reason Dollhouse is coming back is that its going to be crazy cheap for a scripted show, I understand why Reilly’s answer could not have been “We’re bringing it back because we got a screamin’ good deal”, but to infer that DVR viewing is important because it was an element of his smokescreen answers is goofy.
“the network is refusing to say that they will show the mysterious 13th episode, despite the fact they seem to have decided to buy it. Having it as a (possible) DVD exclusive could drive up studio income significantly”
Fox Studios (who make the show and put out the DVD) and Fox Network (which decides whether to buy it and put it on television) are two different companies. Sister companies, but still two different companies.
Fox Studios HAD to produce the 13th episode, because they were contracted to provide 13 for their international distribution and they wanted 13 for the DVD.
Fox Television has not yet, as far as I know, agreed to purchase the broadcast rights for the 13th episode. They may never do so. If they do purchase the rights, they will definitely air it, as they aren’t a part of the other deals. (Thisi s why they’ll show the pilot for Virtualities July 4, even though they aren’t picking up the series.)
I know it gets confusing since everyone just says “Fox” most of the time, but they really are two different sets of decision-makers and two different budgets.
I agree with Bill. I interpreted Reilly’s remarks as mostly spin, not facts. The spin might all have a smidgen of truth or more to it, but they just didn’t want to come out and say, “Hey, Dollhouse is CHEAP! And we’re CHEAP! Hey, the economy sucks!”
You don’t do that at a PR event (although I’d love it if they did) intended to make people watch your “quality programming” (I love that phrase, every network exec uses it like “Mom and apple pie” or Dick Cheney used “Al Qaeda” in 2002.)
I fully expect Fringe to drop to 7-8 million live viewers tops and a 2.0-2.5 demo by end of its season. That could change up or down based on what Abrams does with the mythology and whether he adjusts the procedural vs serial ratio of the episodes and within the episodes up or down. But I think if it holds at the level I suggest it will be back for a season 3 unless Fox thinks they have something better in the wings.
I just find it funny that Anna Torv gets beat on for being a lousy, distracting actress when her show does a 2.8 in the demo, while Eliza Dushku is supposed to be a good actress while being the main complaint about a show doing a 1.0 demo. What’s wrong with this picture?
RSH, who ever accused Dushku of being a good actress?
I believe Nick C thinks she’s good, I might be wrong, though. Didn’t he say she tested well on one of his “panels”? Or was that someone else he was talking about?
RSH, the panels aren’t based solely on acting ability, but I do believe he said she tested well there.
OK, so my memory wasn’t wrong about that. And I know it’s not all about acting ability, but my point was that if anybody has problems with Torv they should have the same problems with Dushku.
Micro-expressions have to be interpreted, and people are going to interpret them differently. The panel audiences may have more problems with Torv than Dushku, but I really doubt one can make the case that it’s solely the problem of the individual being examined. It could just as easily be a problem with the material being presented at the time which is used to represent the person being examined, or the selection of the panel audience, even if you use sophisticated demographic selection protocols.
It’s like blaming being gay or any other behavioral pattern on solely genetics. There’s too much going on between the genetic level and the behavioral level to make such a claim. It’s the old “genetics vs environment” argument.
While researching this, I came across a site that promises to improve profitability for feature films by analyzing them with this sort of thing and fixing “problems” with the films. But one page on the site says (heavily paraphrasing) they can’t make predictions about negative results on horror films because they can’t distinguish whether the negative impression on the audience is due to the INTENDED negative impression the film WANTS to produce or an UNINTENDED negative impression caused by poor representation of the intent of the film.
So I can easily see them running some clips or episodes of a series featuring an actor and getting entirely different results depending on the actor’s reaction to given scenes or even the intent of those scenes. No doubt they attempt to control for that sort of thing, but it’s never going to be perfect. Mistakes will be made.
So claiming someone is a “bad actress” based on hideously bad writing or directing or the actor’s reaction to that is inappropriate. One could only do that if one reviews a significant portion of the actor’s output over the course of their career from different genres, etc.
It’s just too hard to be set up a “control factor” for this sort of thing. I have real doubts about the accuracy of any sort of technology like this. Lie detection was used for decades – and still is – before scientists determined it was almost complete crap. The same applies to voice stress analysis.
These things are “fads” in science. They take an underlying reality of human behavior and extrapolate it way beyond where it is justified in being used to make decisions about human behavior overall.
Add in people trying to make money or careers out of it – and it becomes a con job.
I don’t think Dushku is good enough to pull off what she is supposed to do in Dollhouse but she is awesome enough as Faith or the functional equivalent that she should test better than Trov (I thought she was alright enough in the episode with the kid or making out with the stripper through).
Just be glad that Fox is using Friday nights for cheap scripted programming rather than a reality dump. I’ll take Dollhouse over Are You Smarter than a Fifth Grader any day. Fox will still put up terrible Friday numbers, but I think they’re pretty much expecting that now.
Anyway with this schedule I’d expect Fox to put up another strong year next season. Glee is a question mark for me as to whether it will be a success but it should get a decent rub from Idol/Dance. Dance should be enough of a hit to sustain itself, but I’m hoping that they just stick with it being a fall series next year, because a summer and fall season is too much.
It’s a shame Fox doesn’t have a 10pm hour, I think they could actually handle it properly, unlike NBC or ABC.
Actually I would expect Eliza to do better than Anna because she’s been in the business longer and has more experience, if I’m not mistaken. Anna’s been in a few series, but they were short run series. Eliza’s been working since 1992, Anna since 2002. Ten years more experience makes a difference.
Since I’ve only seen either of them in one series so far, I wouldn’t presume to compare them other than to say I find them both quite adequate for the roles they’re in now. It’s how the those roles are written and directed that seems problematical for one or the other.
Regarding Alex’s mention of the interview that Stephen Fry did mentioning that he’d like to guest on House, you can watch it here:
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/a153887/stephen-fry-on-well-everything.html
@RSH
I’ve been lurking for a while and don’t really post, but I think your reaction to panel-based evaluations of actors is interesting. You write that, “[C]laiming someone is a ‘bad actress’ based on hideously bad writing or directing or the actor’s reaction to that is inappropriate.” However, these panels often review multiple actors performing the exact same material, so I don’t think the fault always rests with some external factor.
More importantly, I don’t understand your basic aversion to networks using public opinion panels to make decisions, considering the fact that a broadcast network by its very definition traffics in the business of public opinion. They would be remiss if they didn’t utilize that metric.
I’m not saying that such panels produce “objective” data in the “hey, I just discovered penicillin” kind of way — but they certainly can serve as predictors for how networks can maximize profits, which is the networks’ purpose for existing. I don’t get why you object to the panels’ value so vigorously.
(In the spirit of full disclosure, I love “Fringe” and have no problem with any of the cast members.)
I have no problem with the networks using any methodology they wish to pick promising pilots or individual performers.
Even if you review several different actors performing the same audition, it could well be in any given case that the conclusions drawn pertain more to the material or the reviewers than the relevant and relative abilities of the performers. Naturally the goal is to prevent that from being the case. I’m just not convinced they’re always or even necessarily usually successful in achieving that.
Basically, what I am opposed to is the flat, unqualified statement that a specific performer is “abysmal” as an actor either in general or on a specific show because they didn’t test well on a panel or because some fans on a Web site say so. While it might be a true fact, it’s not provably so based on the evidence.
Saying that a show’s ratings are being primarily influenced by the wider viewing audience not liking a specific performer on the show based on the testing results of a panel does not seem to me to logically follow. It might be the reason for a show’s ratings, but that’s not automatically the case. Other factors may have much more influence. Only if you can establish that the other factors aren’t present or present in sufficient degree can you say a specific person’s performance is the primary issue.
In my time, I’ve seen way too many people claim an actor to be lousy when I saw no evidence of that. What I’ve seen evidence of is that everybody wants to be a critic and has no shortage of opinions. I get accused of that all the time because of specific criticisms I made of TSCC over the past nine months or so. So I find it hypocritical to make pronouncements about someone being “lousy” based on either personal opinion or some panel test the details of which no one knows and which clearly made no difference in the casting of the individual.
I assume that anybody who keeps working is considered a good enough actor to be bankable by the people producing the material they’re in. Or in the case of somebody like Raquel Welch, who *I* always thought of as “abysmal”, that they are at least bankable for other reasons if not good acting. You can claim someone is getting hired because their relatives own the company, and that will undoubtedly be true in some cases, but it’s really rare that you see an entire career based on that. (I’m sure someone will pop up with some individual example now, claiming it invalidates my last statement, despite the obvious logical fallacy!)
For me, if an actor delivers a line and I don’t care how that line was delivered, the actor was fine. Period. End of story.
I had some minor problems with Thomas Dekker in some scenes on TSCC in season 2. I think he’s adequate as an actor, but he needs better directing, maybe. But I don’t claim he’s “abysmal” or “dull” or whatever. He also did a lot of very good scenes on that show. I don’t think he’s anywhere near as good as Lena Headey or Summer Glau.
Some people found Richard T. Anderson dull and a bad actor on TSCC. I thought he was fine, given what his character was defined as.
I just don’t think I’m qualified to say who is a bad actor and who isn’t based on anything other than personal opinion or specific reasons I can point to in a specific scene. And neither are most other people who aren’t actors.
And I don’t think various fad technologies are a substitute for experience and expertise in the craft.
It’s all just too amorphous to take seriously. So I take all this stuff with a deer size lick of salt.
RSH: Richard T. Jones.
McEllison!
He can investigate anything using household materials!
McEllison!
He thinks he knows what’s going on but he’s being fooled by a terminator
McEllison!
He’s not caught Sarah Connor
McEllison!
OUTSIDE SHOT: Large building. Caption: Catherine Weaver’s Secret Lair
SCENE: Small concrete room with “John Henry Control Room” on sign. SARAH CONNOR is fussing around a box with a clock and some wires on a workbench. MCELLISON looks completely confused.
SARAH: By the looks of this timer, we only have fifteen seconds to defuse this bomb!
MCELLISON: What the hell? Why am I being played by Richard Anderson?
SARAH: It’s OK, you’re playing played by Richard “T” Anderson, not Richard Dean Anderson. Ten seconds McEllison.
MCELLISON: That’s still not right. What am I doing here? And why does this sheet of paper have a list of names on it followed by the word “Terminated”, including some guy called Richard Dean Hack? Who he?
SARAH: We don’t have time for this, it’s obviously just some mistake by the screenwriters. Five seconds McEllison!
MCELLISON stands there looking totally confused.
SARAH: Two seconds McEllison!
MCELLISON suddenly comes to his senses
MCELLISON: Quick! Pass me that bible!
*boom*
Fringe will be get low ratings! Hello its competition are The Office, Grey’s Anatomy and CSI.
I think at least one of the 3 new scripted dramas (Glee, Human Target, of Fox will get cancelled and Past Life.
Squiggleslash: See, that episode proves you’re as good a writer as Zack Stentz – he used my name in a TSCC episode as well! LOL!
You’re right, I don’t know why I wrote Anderson instead of Jones. Too many early morning posts.
But Jones screwed up one time in an interview. He was saying how in the “Mr. Ferguson” episode he finally got a chance to work with Lena, Tom, and…Cameron. Then he quickly corrected himself, “I mean, Summer”.
See – even the ACTORS actually thought of Summer as Cameron! That’s how good Summer was at that role.
RSH – yeah, that’s what I was referring to, I remembered you being somewhat pleased about being on that list of terminated people… (that’s what it was, IIRC, correct?)
You know, Jones was good though his character had its limitations, but I felt Summer carried the show, and part of the problem with the show was that it steered away from Cameron. During the so-called Terminator-of-the-week phase that so many criticized, there was one superb standalone episode which remains one of my all time favorites, Self Made Man, which was all Cameron. It demonstrated, to me, at least, that if they wanted to rescue the series, there was a simple way to do it, and that was to change who the show focussed on. Alas, if anything, they reduced her involvement to the minimum by the end of the series, even when the character itself was important.
Jessica Alba apparently swore off television forever when Dark Angel was canceled. I know Glau is going to the movies right now, but I hope she’s not doing it with the same sour taste in her mouth about TV. Whoever’s to blame, Firefly and T:SCC, like DA, are both exercises in television mismanagement. She’s a fantastic actress, and I hope we see more of her.