(note from Seidman and Gorman: we’re very happy to announce that from time-to-time Nick C will be sharing some of his posts from The Nick C Blog with us, this is the first!)
While speaking with some people over the last few weeks there has been a lot of chatter about FIREFLY. There are those who think FIREFLY is the only reason DOLLHOUSE was renewed (not true, but everyone is entitled to their opinion) because FOX didn’t want another FIREFLY disaster (basically the DVD set selling in outrageously large numbers that proved the series was canceled prematurely, and treated horribly). I kept saying “If that was the only reason, they’d just bring FIREFLY back, and pull a FAMILY GUY.”
Is that realistic? Well lets first consider the fact that DOLLHOUSE was renewed for multiple reasons and FIREFLY was likely in the back of their minds. However Eliza Dushku & Joss along with the rest of the cast and crew provided a lot of good reasons for renewing the show during the 2nd half of season one. DOLLHOUSE was renewed for a lot of reasons and FIREFLY wasn’t a big part of it. However that doesn’t mean that FOX wouldn’t like to bring it back.
Would they? Yes. I think from my talks with the people running FOX that they would bring it back under the right circumstances. However, you must understand that right now Nathan Fillion, Adam Baldwin, Morena Baccarin, and Alan Tudyk (plus he was killed in SERENITY) all have gigs for the foreseeable future. However don’t underestimate the power of a movie. FOX could likely be easily talked into a Movie or two for next season. They could air after an NFL game or playoff game. The movies would easily sell on DVD.
The question now falls into rights, but the guys at FOX wouldn’t be alone. If Universal is now in possession of future rights to projects, NBC or USA wouldn’t mind getting in on the cash opportunity either. A couple movies shot and made for TV and then released on DVD would be profitable for anyone involved. At the same time the cast would still be able to keep doing their normal gigs. Just shoot the movie around their schedules.
A Movie made for TV does a few things. One it reminds fans of why they love the Brand. For another it brings new viewer possibilities to the Brand. A movie could spike the original series DVD and Blu-Ray sales as well as SERENITY sales. For the network that runs it they find out how viable a Brand it can be. Is it worthy of bringing back? The ratings will make the point for them. I’m betting it would pull a 3.0+ with ease. Bring in $150k to $220k a spot and for a 2 hour film that is nothing to sneeze at. Set a budget of $4M for the movie and you’re looking at serious profit before DVD sales ever enter the equation.
Mutant Enemy should try selling it. One movie’s success could easily spell 2 movies in 2010-2011 season, and may in fact mean a whole new series if CASTLE can’t quite make it. UNIVERSAL MCA once made a big splash on TV by making movies just for TV and it was a success that lasted years and died out in the 80s. I still think it’s a viable business option for TV if done right. FIREFLY is just the right property. Mutant Enemy should approach them because if they’re waiting for a TV executive to come up with that kind of good idea, they’ll be waiting forever. NBC would easily kill for anything that could pull over a 3.0 right now and FOX wouldn’t mind pulling that for a Sunday evening either.
Nick C is the Editor of The Nick C Blog and frequent commenter here at TV BY THE NUMBERS
Did you check his micro expressions when you made the deal?
kermonk, deals like this are made in the back of seedy bars filled with too much smoke to see micro-expressions!
haha. when the deal is “I’ll give you content if you give me credit for it”, even if his micro expressions were disgust and contempt, it still seems like a pretty fair deal.
I really liked Serenity but could not get into Firefly. I gave up a few episodes in though. To any fans out ther, when does it get good so I can try again?
So much speculation and hedging in this post, I’m not exactly sure if I’m supposed to take it seriously or not…
imkeh, if you liked SERENITY you’d like the 2nd half of the FIREFLY, the pilot was good but it took some more episodes before it got good. Although there were a few moments in even the worst episodes that were good.
Anonymous, what 2 opinions am I offsetting there? I’m confused by your use of the word “hedging,” and “so much,” I can’t even count more than one opinion in this opinion piece which is pure speculation!
canceling firefly was stupid on FOX.With all the cast in diffrent gigs im not sure it can be revived. To be honest i am surprised they havnt done this already.I doubt it will happen.That said id love to see it. Ill be the first in line-you all are invited. Im buying the tickets.
Kermonk-david4- better?
imkeh:
Did you see the actual pilot episode, also titled Serenity, (which Fox ran as the LAST one in the run on TV {conspiracies abound, some probably true, about how Fox treated that show and that move didn’t help})? If not, it is about 1 1/2 hours long, and it is, I think, a good story about how everyone got together as a crew. Try also Ariel (episode 9) which has a bit of a tie-in to the movie Serenity. Those were, in my subjective opinion among the better ones. Hulu has the entire run available.
Full disclosure: I enjoyed the idea and concept but not all of the stories in either half of the season. The series felt uneven to me (reminding me of Sliders and the wildly varying quality of those episodes) but, overall, I liked it. Try these two episodes and Nick C’s often good advice and look over the back 7 of the 13 episodes. There is a difference in overall quality.
so when does Futurama get renewed for a full season
You can watch the whole season over at Hulu.com … I seriously doubt you would be disappointing if you watched the whole thing first to last. I am willing to bet you would want to watch the whole thing again and the “bad” episodes will suddenly become better when looking back on them.
I dont think there were any “bad” episodes … except maybe train job … the second episode which was only made because Fox didnt like the original pilot and forced them to make a new one… thats where train job comes in. Atleast thats something I remember hearing or watching somewhere many years ago. Might have been when I was watching the DVD commentary.(if you like the series and have it on DVD, watching the commentary is recommending the actors are funny, heh)
The series is full of memorable quotes and many many funny scenes. But I suppose you have to have a dark comedy sense of humor to enjoy some of them.
If you cant tell I am a fan of the series,
I am one of many people that never heard about the show when it was on and after watching the DVD set borrowed from a friend , couldnt for the life of me figure out why this series was ever canceled.
Over at Hulu there are several threads full of people complaining(these threads grow by 2 or 3 people a week.) , why was this series canceled … “I dont want to watch the last episode because then it will be over and no more episodes to enjoy.” As well as comments of what people would do if only there was one more episode/season/movie made.
Anyway its a great series, but as always like any other series it isnt for everyone. But I would highly recommend watching it if you like good writing and falling in love with great characters. And have a somewhat of a liking for dark witty comedy. Sprinkled with some seriousness.
Thanks Nick C!
Nick, here’s the “speculation” and things that don’t make sense:
1) “I’m betting it would pull a 3.0+ with ease. Bring in $150k to $220k a spot and for a 2 hour film that is nothing to sneeze at.”
Huh? How exactly do you assume a movie based on a show that hasn’t aired for years, that no one except the original fans would know of, can pull a THREE demo? Considering “hit” shows like CSI lately are barely pulling a 4, 3 seems far fetched. The ad spot rates also seem ridiculously high.
2) “At the same time the cast would still be able to keep doing their normal gigs. Just shoot the movie around their schedules.”
Yup, because it’s very easy to get FOUR people’s schedules to match SIMULTANEOUSLY so they can shoot a *movie*, which can take weeks (if not months) to complete.
3) NBC airing the movie
When was the last time NBC has really even aired an ORIGINAL made-for-TV movie? (especially one that got a THREE in the demo lol).
USA, maybe – but then all your ratings/ad rate/budget numbers would be thrown out the window.
This is a wonderful series. I’d love to see it on TV. I never heard of Firefly until just recently on hulu.com. I’ve watched every one then I went out and got the movie.
I doubt the same odd mixture of characteristics could ever be brought back in a way that would work. Too bad. If I was an executive at FOX, the marketing department would plenty of time to watch these shows now.
Anonymous,
1. FIREFLY is one of the best DVD TV series sales wise of all time. It would easily hit a 3.0. The advertising rates are extremely accurate for what it could likely pull in. $150k is what a 2.5 show on NBC pulls. FOX does better.
2. We’re not talking a normal movie, but a made for TV movie. This could easily be done. If they want to do it (the actors) it can be done. My understanding is the actors love the show and experience and would jump at the opportunity.
3. NBC aired 2 made for TV movies just this past season. Getting a 3.0 in the demo? What does it matter what NBC has done in the past? All that matters is what FIREFLY would be capable of.
Firefly? Seriously? I’m a fan of scifi (and even of scifi on television, which should indicate how low my standards can get), but this was among the worst scifi shows I’ve ever watched. I tried watching during its original broadcasts, and then tried again during the reruns on SciFi, but I couldn’t stand it. (The pilot, with its awful dialog, nearly made me puke. No, I’m not exaggerating this. I remember not only the nausea but the distinct sense of surprise that dialog could actually cause this reaction in me.) I found it hard to believe that the maker of Buffy and Angel was behind this dumb show. There’s a reason why viewers just melted away in its initial run, and no, it wasn’t because it was aired out of order.
I watched the movie, Serenity, and thought it was a vast improvement over the series, but even so, as a feature movie it rated only a “meh”. And, IIRC, it didn’t do all that well in the box office, either, despite a whole summer of “sneak previews”.
Those who liked this show, REALLY REALLY liked it, but the rest of the television viewing audience really really didn’t like it. I can’t see a reincarnation of this show with any increased viewing numbers.
grapeshot, you know I got sick just reading your post!
Seriously, the show is one to top selling tv series on DVD of all time. DVD sales on it are huge, DVD sales of the movie are good as well. Universal failed big time with their viral marketing of SERENITY, they should have just done real marketing and it would have done better.
Quick question, Nick C, if you will indulge me… what are you using for a gauge on the numbers of DVD sales both for the movie and the TV series?
I am looking at Amazon and see that the series is listed currently at
(a) #1 in Movies & TV > Television > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Firefly
(b) #8 in Movies & TV > Television > Fox TV
and (c) #12 in Movies & TV > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Series & Sequels
a movie site, on the other hand, does bear out your displeasure with the handling of the movie in the theaters number-wise.
I only got half way through actually reading the news. Sorry if I’m off base in that case when I say:
For GOD’S SAKE! Let it die. Leave it alone. No one watched the show. No one saw the movie — which I thought was terrible by the way.
It’s a total nerd fest that the rest of the world neither knows nor cares about it.
The actors have moved on. The network has moved on. For MY SAKE — MOVE ON!
SW, total number of discs sold.
Sorry, I should have been more clear… I was looking for a site or sites that tracked such things. My fault, was not clear on the question.
SW, I don’t use publicly available data. Unfortunately I think there is only one web site that puts up numbers, and only for the top 20 DVDs, and it doesn’t have numbers that go very far back.
Urgh, please do not get my hopes up.. :/
I can’t even think about the possibility of this without getting excited.
Even though I know it’s poinless >_<
tyna_x, I’m not sure about pointless. If Whedon wanted to do it, the market is ripe now, where as a few years ago it was not.
No offense Nick C., but I think they’re pulling your legs. I’m a very new fan of Firefly (just finished watching Serenity again on dvd tonight!) and would be thrilled to pieces if this had a chance of actually happening, but there’s so much about this makes no sense. Some of what others have already brought up and other thoughts:
-no fans of the original show want to see this redone by anyone but Joss and the original writers, cast, etc., most of whom have moved on to other projects…for that matter, who’s to say that the entire original cast would even want to come back now after all this time? Adam Baldwin said in a Chuck interview that he doesn’t think he could do another live action movie now…of course had they had the chance to bring back the show not long after it was cancelled the cast might’ve been happy to do it, but too much time has passed since then and most of them have moved on
-I can understand why Fox would have regrets and think to bring it back, but why would NBC care? do they even know or remember this show? Universal may still hold the rights but they haven’t seemed interested in doing anything with them since Serenity tanked at the box office, which is why I do sadly think there will never be another live action show or movie of this ever again – they don’t think it’ll justify the cost, especially now with the networks trying so hard to cut series’ costs
-what about the recent remake failures of shows like Cupid? even if it was brought back, I doubt it would get treated any better that it was back when it was on and it’d just be on the chopping block all over again
-how would this be reconciled with the Serenity movie? I would think they could either have it set after the movie, which means Alan Tudyk is probably out, or they’d have to undo his character’s death or do a prequel of sorts where the new episodes are set after the last Firefly episode but before Serenity?
-this could be a rumor of what they want to happen in that fantastical what-if sort of way, kind of like the rumor going around that they want to make a Whedon-less Buffy movie; I doubt that’ll happen as much as I doubt this’ll happen
-you already touched on this but I have to say I agree with it, too: Dollhouse’s renewal had absolutely nothing to do with Firefly’s cancellation…yes, Fox may feel remorse over it, but not enough to renew Dollhouse just because of that; Fox needs a sacrificial lamb on Friday nights, plain and simple, and instead of taking their chances with yet another new show which is probably bound to doom anyway, they’re choosing to make Dollhouse their Friday scapegoat and yes, maybe they’re feeling guilty enough to do it because they screwed Joss out of Firefly…enough to give Dollhouse another chance but not enough to ask to bring Firefly
It’s probably not even safe to talk about this topic here, actually. The last time one of the cast speculated about another Firefly movie, the news spread like wildfire on the internet and upset a lot of fans who thought the rumors of another movie were true. (Not that I’m saying you shouldn’t have posted this, Nick C.).
One more thing, forgot to mention in my post above, sorry. I wonder why after the show was cancelled, if Joss ever considered making the show for syndication and if not, then why not. Syndication did gangbusters for other scifi and fantasy shows, especially Sam Raimi’s shows (Hercules and Xena). If he didn’t consider that route, he really should have. It may have been the key to keeping the show going.
Speaking of Dollhouse, word is that Joss is REALLY seriously considering putting Summer Glau on the show – and NOT as a Doll – if he can figure out a serious speaking role for her. This comes direct from Whedon via Ausiello.
Summer had a funny line quoted by Whedon – “I’d like to play a normal girl before I die of extreme old age.” Although I don’t know why – “normal” girls are boring, I’d much rather watch female characters who are vampires, robots, crazy, whores, sluts, spies, cops, aliens, evil criminals, whatever than any “normal” girls. Even the girls on CW aren’t “normal”!
As for Firefly, yes, I’d love to see it come back IF it’s done by Whedon, since I doubt anyone else could do it as well, and I’m not sure the cast would want it done by anyone else. Whedon basically made the careers of several of these people (except Ron Glass, of course, a long time character actor). I think there would be a LOT of hurdles to do it right – which means it probably wouldn’t be done right and would fail. But if it WAS done right, I think it would do as well as Nick believes provided it was given at least two seasons of 13 episodes or one season of 22 episodes to build its audience. I believe a series that isn’t a major disaster out of the gate really should be given that much time to develop an audience.
Shelly is right, however. The least rumor – after Joss has spent years telling the fans, “NO! It’s not coming back!” – is likely to cause havoc in the Whedonverse.
shelly, you misunderstand quite a bit. No where do I say anything about a reboot or a relaunch or a theatrical release. Universal owns the movie rights and they aren’t interested in a sequel to SERENITY because they’re not convinced it would be financially viable. FOX (whom I believe own the TV rights) haven’t considered bringing the show back because it has never been offered to them and the people involved are tied with other projects. A made for TV Movie (a continuation of the story) on the other hand is a very viable option and I point out why in my post. I don’t say it’s happening, I say they’d be open to the idea. I wouldn’t worry about Baldwin, if he was asked he’d find the time.
RSH, I suggest reading the article. I don’t say that a series is possible, I say a made for TV movie is. That is something that Joss hasn’t pitched to anyone because he refused to do business with FOX. Since he now has changed that position the option is now back open. The people at FOX would likely jump if offered as well.
Oh, yeah, Nick, I saw the TV movies was the main idea. But once the movies come out, you know the fans are gonna scream for the series to come back. And depending on how things go with the actors, later on it could. I’m just saying if it does, they need Whedon to do it.
Actually the same applies to the movies – Whedon’s going to have to be the one to do it. Or somebody he – and the cast – trusts as a producer/director, somebody who “gets it”.
So Nick, what you mean to say is, once Fox wasn’t interested in having a tv movie, but has now changed its mind due to the dvd sales? I checked Amazon’s ranking of the Firefly dvds and it was somewhere around #200 of all dvds; is that a good ranking for a show off the air for so long? I can’t tell.
Richard, from what I’ve heard the fans have been asking for the show to come back for quite a few years now but most of the have accepted the fact that it’s not going to happen, at least not since Serenity was released in the theaters. They’ve made do with the comic books Whedon wrote so they’d probably take anything at this point, even a movie dumped on the Scifi channel if that’s all they get.
I dont know. I see people saying they didn’t like it until a few episodes in, but I found this series very interesting and fun. Though its obviously my opinion and my tastes in shows are of course different, I would LOVE to see more Firefly episodes. To be honest, I had no idea what Firefly was until I bought Serenity. After I watched the special features I learned about Firefly. And by chance one of my good friends owned Season 1. (Also signed by Nathan Fillion
) After learning about their world and the history of Serenity, I had a thirst to learn and see more. Which is when I watched Firefly for the first time. Again, I LOVED the show and I truly wish it would return with new episodes. Sorry for rambling.
I’m one of those who discovered Firefly AFTER watching Serenity (which is also where I discovered Summer Glau). So TV movies that are similar to Serenity probably would get people interested in the series itself – and possibly even in returning the series. Probably not after one movie, but after a couple it would become a “franchise” in the minds of the wider audience (it already is for fans). Then you could bring the series back – or “reboot” it.
The show works well for people who can get their heads around the idea of “frontiers in space”. People with less imagination end up disliking it. Other people look at lines like:
Mal: “Do you wanna run this ship?”
Jayne: “Yes!”
Mal: “Well…you can’t!”
and say. “Bad writing”. No – it’s actually humor, folks…
I found the dialog very well done. But some people hate it, like they hate the dialog George Lucas did in Star Wars (with some justification – even Carrie Fisher, when working for Lucas later as a “script doctor”, used to get into flaming arguments involving expletives with Lucas over the dialog: “George, NOBODY talks like that!”)
All shows should try to be as good as Firefly. The actors worked very well together. Line delivery was amazing. The writing was incredible and some of it might have been too subtle. The look was good, the lighting was great.
The actors and the writing really made you fall in love with the characters. They had depth. Even the villains were hard not to like in some way.
I think what I liked most about the show was, how they handled things. This isnt your typical we did it by the rules and we had a happy ending type of show. They do things in the show you always wish other shows did but they dont.
Example would have to be at the end of the original pilot and Train Job(second pilot). And after the captain wins a duel in Shindig.
Firefly is probably about the most perfect show ever. The cast, writers, directors, crew, were all brilliant and made for a terrific show. If Battlestar Galactica (which is also great) can get movies, why not Firefly?
It’s what Fox needs to do at this point to get people back on their side, renewing Dollhouse won’t do it alone.
From your keyboard to the Studio-Suits eyes!!!
Fingers crossed and knocking on wood!
@ leo,
You are right about “The Train Job” which was the first episode that Fox ever aired.
Fox decided that they did not at all like the 2-hour Pilot episode “Serenity” (not to be confused with the movie of the same name that was the final episode that Fox aired) and so gave Joss and Tim Minear lots of notes and suggestions and one weekend to write an entirely new first episode which became “The Train Job”.
As to why the show was canceled?
Start with the fact that the first aired episode was created under those circumstances and so is thought by many to be one of, if not the, weakest episode of the series. Is that really the best way to launch a new series?
Fox then mixed up the rest of the episodes and aired them out of order.
It was shown on Fridays.
It premiered in mid-September amidst a lot of MLB games and not much else and so the people who would have been willing to watch it were waiting for the baseball to end and the people watching the baseball weren’t very captivated by the ads.
Speaking of which, while Fox has (imo) long done a great job of trying out off-beat, intelligent and interesting programs, their advertising department then does (imo) a very poor job of creating ads that do those programs justice.
I can personally attest that I saw the ads for Firefly back then and had no interest in watching based upon them. However, I was fortunate enough to read a TV Guide article describing the show which made it sound quite good. Absent that, I would have missed it as well.
As you say, it’s not for everyone. But there have been a very steady stream of new fans who keep trying it and many of them quite like it. Not all of course, but a high percentage based on my experience and those that do like it are often very enthusiastic in their endorsement of it. For example, over at IMDb it has 9.5/10 Stars based on 28,471 votes. That is extremely high, both in the grade as well as the number of people voting.
By contrast, Grey’s Anatomy has 7.7/10 based on 191 votes. ER has 8.2 based on 1807 votes. Fox’s new series Fringe, which seems like a hit for them, doesn’t even have 5 votes yet. T:SCC with it’s highly vocal fanbase has given that show 7.6/10 with 1268 votes. Chuck has an 8.2/10 with 130 votes. The current Doctor Who has 8.8/10 based on 10,099 votes.
That is only one measure of comparison based on one site, but I think that it does a good job of illustrating how passionate fans are about Firefly.
Oops.
My apologies, I placed the end of my parentheses in the wrong place in the 2nd paragraph. It should read:
“Fox decided that they did not at all like the 2-hour Pilot episode “Serenity” (not to be confused with the movie of the same name) that was the final episode that Fox aired…”
Im all for bringing back firefly/serenity
As to the actors being able/willing to participate?
I have often heard that they quite enjoyed working on this show and portraying the characters that they did (though I have no inside knowledge). But just this year Nathan Fillion was on one of the late night shows talking about Castle and stated that he is the biggest Firefly fan of all and that no one could dispute that as he was the Captain. He went on to say something to the effect that he would jump at the chance to again portray his character if at all possible.
But I feel certain that Joss & Co could pull off a great movie even with only some of the actors. In fact, one of the more requested stories is for the origin of Ron Glass’ character Shepard Book. They might do a movie in which only Glass, or Glass and a few others were present. Glass might do the framing sequences in which he was telling the tale of his youth in flashbacks. For that kind of story then they could film it (almost) entirely with new actors if they had to.
Or Joss could simply have a movie in which the available actors were on a mission by themselves and explain away those not able to appear in that way. It’s not at all implausible that Inara could have been away with a client or someone(s) else is on a separate mission to look for supplies. Obviously the ideal situation would be for everyone to appear, but it could be easily explained away if necessary.
The only way I would watch Firefly again is if FOX promised to show the show in the correct order and to keep them at the same time on the same day throughout the week.
(Sorry for double post)
“Set a budget of $4M for the movie”
Serenity had a budget of $40M. Do you think they can make a movie with $4M? They can, but it wouldn’t be as good as Serenity.
I think its time to accept the TV Show is DEAD. I am a huge fan of Firefly, but its time has passed. What I would like to see is a sequel to Serenity and then maybe he could finish it up with another movie, making a trilogy.
It did cross my mind. The big “what if” Castle, Terminator, Dollhouse and Chuck were not renewed. Would the cast re-unite? I’ve personally been waiting for another film since the last one. I remember Joss mentioning that he had some plans for a trilogy and I think Serenity did pretty well on DVD. I hope it’s just a matter of time.
For those of you who say that no one watched the show, no one liked the move, and so on, you obviously have been SERIOUSLY mis-informed about the actual following of Firefly/Serenity. The DVD sales have been ENORMOUS for a canceled TV show, and due to poor marketing of the movie, Serenity didn’t do nearly as good as it could.
To flat out say that it’s a terrible show without seeing the entire series and movie is just an ignorant statement.
If it was so terrible, and no one watched it, then how do you explain that a feature film was created from a mid-season canceled television show? Obviously there were enough fans and people who enjoyed it to create a movie. If you didn’t like the show or the movie and generally don’t care about it, then why waste your time (and ours) complaining about it?
Firefly is good from the get go, was not a bad ep IMO. I would love to see FF movies, but had rather have a Spike movie with James Marsters of course.
@imkeh
Firefly was fantastic from the first episode, its the movie which was a sick abomination.
this show failed so it doesnt come back
@Chet
Yes (though an extra linefeed would help
@grapeshot
“The pilot, with its awful dialog, nearly made me puke. No, I’m not exaggerating this. I remember not only the nausea but the distinct sense of surprise that dialog could actually cause this reaction in me”
That’s because you are a grape, and grapes are sour! The dialog was one of the best things about the show!
Richard Steven Hack:
““George, NOBODY talks like that!””
Yeah, and the difference is nobody WANTS to talk like that, even good actors. On Firefly even though nobody talked like that, they all wanted to – and the dialog danced.
@Robert Seidman
I have this theory that if Leno were to recreate “Space 1999″ with hand puppets, it could generate enormous revenue, I could write up a couple of hundred pages on that – interested?
Ok, if FOX cancels Terminator: S.C.C. to save Dollhouse, why would they pick up another low-rating sci-fi show?
Firefly is gone, let it go. Whedon has moved on to Dollhouse, Nathan Fallion has moved on to Castle.
As for NBC…are you serious? They have a hard enough time keeping their sows on the air, why would they buy the rights to a failed one? Besides, they don’t have the space on their schedule thanks to Leno’s show.
tvbythenumbers, you SURE you want to make a deal with this writer?
You guys just lost a lot of credibility by giving Nick C. a platform.
And to add: I’ve seen this type of poster with “inside info” before–it makes you guys look naive and irresponsible. As much as I’ve enjoyed this site, this type of rumourville and speculation based on a random poster’s “sources at FOX” means that I may no longer recommend, or participate on, this site.
I watched Serenity a couple of months ago, and then watched Firefly from start to finish (thank you Hulu) over the last week or so. I went in all charged up because Dollhouse, once the first half was over anyway, had really gotten me excited, and I felt a little guilty about making fun of Browncoats and the way they invade every discussion of science fiction on the interwebs to make the same points over and over again.
And my response, well, you can read it here. Short version, for those who don’t want to click on the link, is that the series is the most overrated and miscategorized thing I’ve ever seen.
Firefly isn’t bad, don’t get me wrong, but I sincerely believe it was the errors that Fox made and the reaction to them by angry fans that made people see it as more than it is. And even Fox’s errors aren’t quite what they’re made out to be.
Fox was looking to replace the expensive Dark Angel with something that would appeal to the same audience but wouldn’t have James Cameron attached to it. Well, one was (at least in the first season) hard science fiction with a superheroine/social commentary angle, while the other was a fairly male oriented space opera and Western combo with some smart humor and any social commentary buried below layers of cardboard characterizations. I suspect, on a surface level, the differences looked bigger than they are, but they were there, and Firefly wasn’t a proper replacement that was going to appeal to the same group.
Then there’s the whole “missing episodes/shows out of order” thing. Some of that was Fox meddling, but much was to do with sports pre-empting the show. One can argue the toss on that, I’ve always HATED the way US networks treat overruns of sporting matches, but there wasn’t anything SPECIAL about the way Firefly was handled, and Firefly’s episodes were, actually, mostly standalone. Insofar as they weren’t, well, the initial run of clips from previous episodes generally filled in the viewer. I don’t think you need to watch them in any particular order as long as you know where in the story you are.
Declining ratings? Understandable. Good DVD sales? Also fairly understandable – if there are episodes missing of a show you love, you’re going to want to watch them, and there was a systematic campaign by people increasingly obsessed with the series to promote DVD buying.
In the midst of all of this, there’s been one major opportunity to test the waters and find out whether Fox’s decision was actually right, whether the TV show just plain wasn’t viable to begin with and whether the browncoats are a loud, vocal, minority who do more harm than good. That opportunity came with the movie Serenity. Serenity was a moderately good film – you didn’t have to watch Firefly to understand it, it had action adventure, fairly decent characters, and Summer Glau did her crazy killing machine thing to good effect – and so if there was a mass audience just desperate to see Firefly return, then Serenity would do it.
Serenity tanked. Box office numbers barely covered the $39M cost of making the movie (which in practice means the studio saw around $20M of that.) I seriously doubt DVD numbers made up the other $20M, but Hollywood accounting means we’ll never know for sure how much of a loss it made.
Firefly is not a popular series. It just isn’t. No, it didn’t get a fantastic start on Fox, and circumstances conspired to ensure the show’s ratings were lower than they should have been, but I’m fairly certain the show’s ratings would have been low anyway.
3.0 in the demo for a TV movie? I’d be really, really, surprised. If Serenity had done well, well, things might be different, but what’s changed since the release of Serenity?
I can’t wait to see Nick C’s next article “How To Bring Back ‘Enterprise’”
I just can’t believe how someone can dislike Firefly. It’s impossible for me to understand, really.
I agree with Nick C.
Regarding the naysayers:
The fan base for Firefly/Serenity has grown exponentially and continues to grow based on continuing sales of the series and movie as well as the ever growing numbers, worldwide, attending various conventions. And for good reason. In other words, the fan base has not remained static since the demise of the series.
Whedon is a modern day Aesop who brings to any of his projects a dedicated following of fans who “get it”. This alone would encourage a made for TV movie and justifies Nick C’s opinion re: the ratings numbers.
Regarding the inclusion or lack thereof of the original cast/crew: all the actors, as well as Whedon, have expressed their desire on numerous occasions to continue the characters they created in the series/movie. Whedon poignantly expressed this desire in the extras included in the recently released blu-ray version of Serenity. If nothing, Whedon inspires loyalty among those who have worked for him. And now that those same players have moved up/on into the “A” list, any studio could not help but consider their “bankability” in some form of new project.
Regarding problems mentioned by some here about the storyline; any problems ie: Wash’s/Book’s demise, etc.; would be easily dealt with by Whedon as evidenced by the way he dealt with the unresolved storyline of Firefly in the subsequent movie Serenity. Give the guy some credit. Within the first 10 minutes of the movie he brilliantly summarized 14 episodes of Firefly for those who had not seen the series. He’s capable and has proven time and again to be very creative.
Moreover, many of the naysayers have overlooked the fact that Firefly was the first to consistently use a film noir sensibility through the use of hand held cameras, lighting and innovative composition that took into account the coming HD 16:9 framing, and more. Now such techniques have become common, as was used in BSG. With the passage of time, it’s easy to overlook the fact that it was Whedon who opened the door with Firefly. And any number of successful directors/writers from BSG to Abrams have noted Whedon/Firefly as their inspiration.
Furthermore, there will always be those who don’t get the underlying themes in the series/movie as evidenced by some of the posts here. Some of those themes, including parallels to our Civil War, corporatism, the joining at the hip of the U.S. and China economically, the current aversion to science by segments of the population, freedom, the corruption of media, religion, mythology, environment, sexual politics, etc…become more evident with repeated viewings as well as current events. Such a richly textured, multi-layered storyline can’t help but continue to win more fans (Browncoats), which will inevitably lead to some sort of sequel.
Nick C. is not only right in regard to his speculations, I think he will eventually be considered prescient.
It’s in the stars.
squiggleslash:
“layers of cardboard characterizations”
That just means you didn’t get it.
“Firefly’s episodes were, actually, mostly standalon”
That’s just the point, they weren’t – you just didn’t notice what they were building.
(Among them characterization and development of people and relations)
“and so if there was a mass audience just desperate to see Firefly return”
There isn’t, most people watching TV are just nitwits. Of course that’s mostly because TV has chosen to cater mostly for that group.
“then Serenity would do it.”
Hardly, series was great – movie sucked.
Nick C
Thanks for the info, appreciate it.
Hey look at the pig flying next to that unicorn!
“That’s just the point, they weren’t – you just didn’t notice what they were building. (Among them characterization and development of people and relations)”
There is no character development. That’s the problem. All of the characters are pretty much defined as far as they will be in the series in the Serenity pilot with the possible exception of Mal. Book and River have deep secrets, but that’s evidence early on (from the beginning with River), and the secrets are then pretty much subjected to a T:SCC-like “There’s a secret here, which we’ll tell you… LATER!?!!1!” thing, which in Book’s case never materializes, and in River’s case finally gets answered by the movie.
River is, in many ways, the most atrocious character, her technical status as brain damaged/modified genius means the Firefly writers could treat her as a deus ex machina and that’s exactly what they proceed to do on multiple occasions.
Everyone else? Not really. There’s nothing you learn about any of the characters in episodes 1-13 that means you’d be lost watching episode 14 early on.
Yes, there’s an arc. Yes, some events happen before others, but missing an episode or watching it later really doesn’t make any difference. The show has its “Previously on Firefly” segment at the beginning of each episode that recaps everything important, and that works.
Believe me, showing some episodes in the wrong order, and skipping others, didn’t cause Firefly to fail. Of the “Reasons why Firefly failed other than it being just not particularly well liked”, only the “Some episodes were pre-empted by sports” thing stands up, on the grounds that a week without an episode generally does affect viewing figures. The “wrong order” and “not all the episodes” things don’t stand up, it wasn’t that kind of show.
Firefly is a show that will have a hard time building an audience in 2009, just as it did in 2002, even if its rebooted, Joss is allowed to do what he wants, and every episode is shown and shown in Joss’s preferred order. Outside of the intertubes, I can’t actually find a single fan amongst the people I know, not people I work with, not my friends, anybody.
Firefly fans are a loud, vocal, and tiny minority. That’s why Serenity (Movie) didn’t get an audience. And it’s why I’m staggered people think a TV movie would get a 3.0. Maybe if it follows American Idol, and all the other networks are showing a three hour Obama speech.
Hans, Terminator has already been cancelled and there’s talk of Summer Glau jumping to Dollhouse. I’m not expecting either Dollhouse or Castle to last much longer because I don’t think either’s demo numbers are going to improve in the fall. I don’t know about Chuck and don’t want to theorize because I don’t want the Chuck fans here breathing down my neck.
I know Nick said that they could work around the actors’ schedules, but I think the bigger problem is the actors and writers who are now working with other networks (Nathan Fillion now on ABC, Adam Baldwin on NBC). I doubt they’ll be allowed to go film a tv movie for a rival network. If CBS wouldn’t even allow Kaley Cuoco to make a guest appearance on Grey’s, I doubt ABC and NBC would let their actors do a movie for Fox unless their respective shows get cancelled first and they become free agents. Sadly, so much time has passed now that I don’t think a tv movie is feasible anymore, just a Serenity sequel but Universal will never greenlight it.
Canceling Firefly was the dumbest move since canceling Space: Above and Beyond
Most of the time the actors have the final say on where and what they can work on, the CBS – ABC thing was just crazy and if I was Kaley Cuoco I would have told CBS to go fuck themselves.
Fox still owns the Firefly rights to TV, which is why the movie had a different name. If Universal had any common sense they would have made the first for half the cost they did, and skipped on the ads, but they were stupid.
Plus I would only like the show to come back if they ignored the bad movie.
I really don’t think it was the Firefly reason. I think there were some who genuinely think Dollhouse can put up decent Friday numbers and was better than the rest of the stuff in development.
I don’t expect huge DVD sales either. Dollhouse is not exactly Arrested Development or Family Guy (old Family Guy).
Squigglelash I have to respectfully disagree with just about everything you have said. About watching the series out of order. No character development. No secrets outside of river, mal and book. Just off the top of my head I can think of one story they didnt talk much about. Why is Inara with Firefly … why did she really leave the academy(been awhile cant remember the name of where she was taught her profession.)
And who doesnt want to learn more about Wash’s past and his fry-cook oppertunity?
The problem is the series was too subtle… it didnt hit you over the head with signs saying look at this .. this is important it will mean something later in the series. Like most shows do nowadays. But I suppose being subtle has its advantages … with the exception of Book I never felt like they were dragging something out too long. Then again it was only 13 episodes.
I have never watched an episode of Lost. I hear they drag things out for years. As a fan I would be frustrated. I watched Fringe and some of their teasers felt like the reveal took too long … and after the reveals I was fairly disappointed.
As for watching episodes out of order… “out of gas” “objects in space” “ariel” and maybe “heart of gold” “war stories” possibly “jaynestown”. Watch any of them before they are supposed to be watched and I feel like they lose alot. You need the emotion you gain from watching the earlier episodes in the series.
Granted you probably wont be lost on the surface of the series if you watch them out of order, but you will miss alot of the subtle things. But isnt that a testament to how well the series was written? Being able to watch it casually and still get something out of it, and when you want to get serious about viewing it there is a whole new layer.
I have watched the series from beginning to end several times over the years. I always learn something new and find new things that are funny and interesting. It still hasnt lost its shine… which to me is amazing considering its from 2002 and I dont normally watch shows more than once.
Why did FOX bring back FAMILY GUY? It was one of the top 3 selling TV SERIES of all time on DVD. FIREFLY is right up there with it. There really isn’t another show anywhere near it in DVD sales that was prematurely canceled except for FUTURAMA and that is staying alive with DTV movies.
There is definitely a market for FIREFLY right now. So you either take advantage of it or you don’t. FOX Broadcasting has first rights of refusal on a FIREFLY TV product. Joss hasn’t pitched them anything since the show was canceled.
Now that he has a working relationship with FOX Broadcasting again the door is open.
Joss owns the rights of all characters and names. So they can’t do it without him.
Dude, you can’t compare Family Guy to Firefly. F.G costs way less to produce. Also, Family Guy was being sold syndicated (to TBS for example). FOX were more likely to make money, or save money, with Family Guy.
It’s a known fact that Animated shows take a lower risk. They are cheaper to make, and can be made faster, meaning they could have a longer season.
I heard that the first of the Firefly season 2 episodes will feature the second coming of Jesus Christ.
Seriously, this is idiotic. Nobody at Fox is talking about bringing it back.
Speaking of Fox… Why am I seeing a new “New Amsterdam” 2009 project at IMDB? I was perusing that place and noticed Bridget Regan is cast again. That’s probably just an error.
Also rumors that Virtuality is back in production. Yay!
(If it does move in during the mid-season, who leaves?)
“can be made faster”
correct me if im wrong, but dont animated series take MORE time to create?
Animated shows do take more calendar time to produce, but I know little about their relative cost/hour of show time.
Nick C, the DVD sales totals give any type of time trend? How have sales been holding up over the past year or so? How long has it been since the sales were cracking top weekly charts, or similar? Firefly could have sold a billion copies it’s first two months out….then nothing. In that case, this exercise is pointless. If the sales have been steady over several years, there might be something worth considering here.
The Jericho feature film is in development. I’d rather see a Jericho movie than a made-for-TV Firefly. It’s been too long to care.
Oh God!
Firefly comeback discussion is pointless!
David4, maybe you know more than I do. I don’t know what happened with Kaley Cuoco and CBS, but I was under the impression that when a tv actor signs a contract with a show and network, they are bound to that network for that period of time and if any guest spots they want to do somewhere else have to be approved. Matt Olmstead recently did an interview where he was asked how he managed to get Paul Adelstein to appear in the Prison Break finale when Adelstein is now on Private Practice on ABC (he could do it because ABC likes Adelstein and didn’t mind letting him go for it, but it sounds to me like this is the exception, not the rule). If at all it’s even possible this speculation is true, timing will be a big problem with so many actors doing other things.
Nick, you’re saying there’s a market for this to happen now when there wasn’t before. Okay, but the crux of it is, is it just that there’s a window of opportunity for this to happen, or is Fox seriously considering actually approaching Joss and Co. to make it happen and not just THINKING about doing it? Because there’s a huge difference between those two. For that matter, there’s probably a market for many shows to get a tv movie (like a Friends reunion movie) but until the network actually moves forward to make it happen, it remains what it is – wishful thinking, and nothing more.
People, people, people! Please. Let us be realistic here and simply wait for “Firefly: The Musical” on Broadway.
*LOL*
Family Guy’s a poor comparison – it’s always had wide appeal and been intended for a general audience, and the high DVD numbers reflected this. There wasn’t some insane bunch of “Petorians” invading every discussion of comedy on the internet who were buying multiple copies of Family Guy and going on and on and on about it to their friends. It JUST HAD GOOD SALES, on its own merits, without a fan campaign.
As far as Futurama goes, it’s had a limited return cable in the form of some made for DVD movies, I’m not seeing any evidence any major network wants anything to do with the show.
DVD sales are a dead end. The causes of Firefly’s high DVD sales are unique to Firefly, and have little to do with the show’s popularity.
The real key to all of this is the movie Serenity. It’s the only real evidence we have answering the question as to whether there’s sustained, widespread, demand for Firefly. There’s no other relevant evidence.
And Serenity was a flop. And yes, it was a moderately decent film that should have had broad appeal if Firefly can ever have broad appeal. 81% “Fresh” rating at Rotten Tomatoes. International critical acclaim. A decent commercial ad campaign, Summer Glau and Whedon adding to this with the River Tam sessions, and of course, a free giant fan campaign.
Nobody watched it.
If Fox or NBC wants to do a TV movie, I’m not going to say it’s a bad idea, I just think anyone expecting a 3.0 under anything other than extreme circumstances (like the “After American Idol, with Obama on the other channels”) is going to be sorely disappointed.
Well said squiggleslash
squiggle im surprised you were so outspoken for TSCC-which i was also- but not firefly.Now you are on the other side. I loved the series.The movie i liked less as my two favorite charcters were killed. I would love to see this happen. That said i dont think it will. Not for any of the resons stated above. I do think one could be made if all the ducks were in a row. But because Joss has said he told that story and is done with it.Basically viwing it as a gem that didnt need messed with.
That said.Like I said before if it happens ,you all are invited im buying the tickets as ill be first on line waiting for days in a tent.
Im a Browncoat and im proud
Squiggleslash: I have to totally disagree about everything.
To concentrate on why the movie failed, it failed because you really DID need to know the series to like it. I liked it without having seen the series, mostly precisely because of what you said – Summer Glau. But I also liked the other characters who were very engaging, and the dialog which was good. I found the overall premise acceptable, although I tend to not be that interested in “frontier” type space operas. But this opera concept was very well done.
The special effects were cheesy compared to other space operas like Star Wars, of course. They were TV-level special effects. Serenity’s budget obviously didn’t allow for more. And that’s one reason the WIDER audience who expected Star Wars didn’t like it.
The wider audience also didn’t like because if you hadn’t seen the series and gotten a fuller appreciation of the concept, the whole “frontiers in space” thing came off wrong. I’ve seen such movies before in my time, but a younger audience oriented around Star Wars (even though Star Wars also has a lot of that stuff in it, and even cheesier quite frankly) and Star Trek just isn’t going to get it.
In fact, another reason the wider audience didn’t like it is probably because of Star Wars already having some of the cheesy frontier stuff. Serenity didn’t play that for laughs like Star Wars did, it was integral to the concept. So the audience didn’t find it funny.
While Serenity had a lot of humor in it, it was humor by the characters, not the environment they were in. Star Wars did the opposite. The cheesy aliens and robots were the comedy while the characters were mostly serious. Apparently the wider audience couldn’t relate to Serenity’s premise.
Nonetheless, both the show and the movie were excellently done. The casting was excellent, the acting excellent, the plots fresh, the dialog excellent, the directing good, and the effects adequate for a TV show and just barely so for the movie.
Another good reason why the movie probably didn’t do as well is because it was promoted – or at least reviewed as – the final gasp of a canceled TV show. Probably a lot of people didn’t bother to see it simply because it was a spin off of a TV show – and a canceled one at that. Anybody who wasn’t a fan of the TV show probably didn’t care.
None of that says anything about the quality of either the show or the movie.
Your notion that there was no character development is also laughable. First of all, there is a difference between character exploration and character development. There was considerable character exploration on the show – in fact, that was the main draw of the show – engaging characters with new stuff revealed about them in every episode. There was a certain amount of character development but not as much as might have been done. But the premise was so rich that Whedon could have taken five seasons to do that. And certainly as the story arc went on in terms of resolving the River Tam situation, character development would have been accomplished for at least Mal, the main character. Chuck, for example, has done character development, but it took two seasons. In fiction, character development occurs over the course of the entire story arc – you don’t finish it until the story arc is completed. Firefly had only 13 episodes and the story arc was just getting into high gear when it ended.
“DVD sales are a dead end. The causes of Firefly’s high DVD sales are unique to Firefly, and have little to do with the show’s popularity”
That statement makes absolutely no sense. Who do you think is buying the DVD’s – smugglers shipping them to Rwanda? It has high sales years after the show because people buy it and recommend it to their friends. Pure word of mouth advertising, the best kind.
“The real key to all of this is the movie Serenity. It’s the only real evidence we have answering the question as to whether there’s sustained, widespread, demand for Firefly. There’s no other relevant evidence.”
Which is why you make the ridiculous statement about the DVD sales – so you can attack the movie using it as proof. Which is completely wrong because the movie sales and the series DVD sales are two entirely different things for the reasons I’ve outlined.
If the show were rebooted today and properly promoted and reviewed, it would do well – especially if the ground were prepared by say, three TV movies. How long it would survive would be dependent on where Whedon would take the story arc, as usual with any serial.
Sorry, you’re entirely wrong on just about every aspect of Firefly and Serenity.
I think I just sported wood reading that…. you had to provide me with another speck of hope
“It’s a known fact that Animated shows take a lower risk. They are cheaper to make, and can be made faster, meaning they could have a longer season.”
Can be made faster? Umm…. no….
An episode of a TV show might take a week to film, but with hand drawn animation it takes much much longer. The opening of Futurama took 6 weeks to draw along, it’s also why the movies took so long to be released from when they were announced.
Why Family Guy came back is because it was easy, you can always hire new drawers, and the writer does most voices. Firefly isn’t coming back, and like someone said this article shows no proof just wishful thinking. Hell they think they can make a 90 minute movie for 4 million? The terrible Stargate movies cost 7 million, and a 45 minute drama cost 2-4 million these days.
To all of those who can’t see how wide the appeal of Firefly is, and it’s ability to bring in new viewers, then I ask how do you explain the consistently strong DVD sales?
It is constantly bringing in new fans. Of course not everyone who tries it will like it, but there is nothing that everybody likes. If you didn’t like it then that’s fine, you are entitled to your own tastes and opinions, but a great many people do, as evidenced by the DVD sales.
Why shouldn’t the always growing group of Firefly fans be allowed to enjoy this show and hope for the possibility of it’s continuation in some form?
“To concentrate on why the movie failed, it failed because you really DID need to know the series to like it. I liked it without having seen the series, mostly precisely because of what you said – Summer Glau.”
Nope, I’m an exception there. I went out and bought the DVD and quite enjoyed the movie, without ever seeing the TV series.
So it wasn’t an unhealthy obsession with an actress, but of the sci/fi genre instead. I never really recognized Summer Glau from Angel right away, but I did remember Gina Torres from both Angel and Hercules.
I would give anything to see Firefly back on the small screen! I was crazy about it from day one and Loved the movie so much I bought it the day it came out on DVD. The cast was great as well as the story lines were wonderfully written and Greatly acted out! I was so sad when it went off the air. I loaned my dvd set to some friends that had never seen the show and they were so sad when it ended cause they loved it too and could not figure out why such a great show would have been killed and I agree! I hope they will bring it back in one form or another!
ctet – you must be thinking of someone else. I liked the first season of T:SCC, and have been very critical of the second season and felt cancellation was completely justified.
sry if i was wrong squiggle.Still want the show to comeback and i think its viable
but i dont think it will happen for the reasons i said above.Joss dosent want to do it. I would even bet the forces that be offered and he PASSED on the BUFFY reboot for the same reasons.
IMO i know
Would love the show to return-My favorite series
Smart series dosent last. Seems all my beloved shows die-especially SCIFI.
my 2 pennies
im a Browncoat and im proud
RSH – I watched the movie first. I had no problems understanding it. Further, as I pointed out, the movie was critically acclaimed, with a fresh rating of 81% on RT. I don’t believe it would have received the positive critical reception it had if the reviewers had had to sit through fifteen hours of Firefly to understand what was going on.
It was a technically good film, it flopped. It flopped because there’s no general interest in the Firefly concept or universe.
Let’s get back to the series, the same sodding series that I’ve been told day in, day out, was some stroke of genius, a work that stands atop the pillar of science fiction, that proves that Whedon is the almighty himself, and which I was stupid enough to sit through FIFTEEN HOURS of just because I liked Dollhouse and wanted to give it a second chance. ‘cos after Serenity, I wasn’t that keen, even if it was OK I just didn’t find it compelling.
As far as character development goes: What I saw was that most of the characters seemed to be largely two dimensional. There was little of substance revealed about any of the characters with the exception of Mal. Yes, there were technical details about River and Book, but not a single thing told us anything about them! River started the series as “screwed-up genius girl with unknown capabilities”, and more or less stayed that way until Episode 14. And in 14, what we had learned about River before didn’t have much to do with the episode as it progressed, beyond the initial “There’s some ESP going on” thing.
Perhaps it was wrong to watch this series after T:SCC, where being teased for 90 episodes that “CW is Skynet… or is she?!? We’re going to tell you… LATER!” severely undermined my ability to be patient, but, c’mon, we’re not talking about a great deal happening here.
I understand that you like Firefly. I am not claiming otherwise.
I believe Firefly isn’t a bad TV show. I have not claimed otherwise.
What I do believe is that those who think it’s compelling are in a tiny minority. I think if there was mass interest in the show, then Serenity would have been popular.
* Serenity worked as a standalone movie, contrary to the claims of people here.
* Serenity was a reasonable depiction of the Firefly concept and universe, contrary to the claims of people here. I know, I just friggin’ watched the series after watching the movie a couple of months ago.
* Serenity was well publicized.
As for my comments about DVD sales, perhaps you should read them again? Quoting a sentence in the midst of an argument and saying it doesn’t make sense if interpreted outside of the argument is generally a pointless exercise. I said it’s ridiculous to compare the DVD sales of Family Guy, a TV show shown “in the correct order” with “all the episodes” and with no organized fan base with the DVD sales of Firefly where fans had to buy the DVDs to watch the show in its entirety and which had an organized (that’s the polite term) fan base.
As I said, I don’t know a single person in meatspace, nobody at work, nobody amongst my friends, who both has heard of Firefly and enjoys it. I know more fans of Dark Angel, and, indeed, had at least three women independently mention the show to me over the years and act with surprise when I said I didn’t much care for it (at that time.)
There aren’t as many Firefly fans as you think.
chet – don’t misunderstand me, my major complaint is this notion that any Firefly remake is going to be astonishingly successful and that a TV movie will get great ratings.
I have no objection to any shows being made (and if it means discussions of science fiction will no longer be invaded by browncoats whining about how Fox hates sci-fi and missing episodes and in the wrong order and we must all buy the DVDs and… then the world will truly be a better place for it
Mind you, from what I’ve seen, T:SCC fans seem to be even more deranged right now…
squiggleslash, it flopped because of many reasons the biggest one being the viral marketing campaign was incredibly foolish. The DVD sales are strong (but not as strong as FIREFLY). When any idiot mentions “lets try viral marketing,” a Studio Head is quick to point out SERENITY and SNAKES ON THE PLANE. Viral marketing is a silly thing to try. If they had tried the traditional means it would have done much better.
To suggest that it won’t catch on or perform well because the show flopped (on Fridays, out of order, etc) and the movie flopped is showing ignorance to the whole picture. SERENITY turned itself around in DVD sales and became profitable. FIREFLY is a steady constant on the top 200 best selling DVD list and has been since it was released on DVD and on more than one occassion has climbed back into the top 20 over the years.
FIREFLY as a TV Movie could easily pull good numbers.
You do realize as well, Nick C, that The Family Guy is a cartoon. As in, no actors to try to lure back. Except for the voice ones, but the work they put into an episode is little compared to actually filming something.
This talk is pointless. If Firefly were going to come back, it would come back as a big screen movie because the show has already gone that route. It makes little sense to step back to being a TV event, unless they would reboot with different actors. But then, what would be the point?
This website is being increasingly disappointing. To the creators – you really had a great thing here, but you have to decide what you want to be: either a great ratings website that is reliable and interesting, or what essentially amounts to a fansite that has a constant deluge of pointless posts about Chuck, or whatever else. You’re losing your integrity with these posts – posts designed with a mind to stir up fan bases and generate hits at the expense of readers who have no interest in that stuff.
For a group of people that is increasingly being called upon to comment on ratings issues for news stories and such, I’d tread very carefully with this stuff or you will lose your credibility.
Nick c,
Your reminding me of all the crazy moonlight and Jericho fans. so this is the show that you love and want back? i havent seen it yet i have downloaded all the eps and the movie. ive just not had time to watch it. the only reason i will watch it is coz of Summer Glau.
Anyway its pointless the show was axed what 7 yrs ago? of course its not coming back. the TV movies would be a nice idea though. I think most shows that are cancelled should have a tv movie to wrap up things. for example Pushing Daisies. The way they ended the series believe me ive seen it it screams for more.
Doug, that’s a joke. You’re telling me that Seth Green doesn’t take more time to do his VO for FAMILY GUY than it would take to shoot a made for TV movie? You’re also suggesting that Universal would want to sink another $40M into a movie that with DVD sales has barely been profitable? That’s not likely. TV is the only way it will ever come back. If it was TV why would it need to be rebooted?
Nothing about your post makes sense. Especially the guys here losing their credibility for an op ed piece!
Sean, I’d love to see a made for TV movie, but I’m not a crazy fanatic of the show. I was asked by a lot of people about FIREFLY due to the renewal of DOLLHOUSE just as I state in the article. It’s not possible for anything but a TV movie, and then it would still be a logistical nightmare, but I’m sure if all the parties wanted to do it they could. It would be profitable and that is why the networks and studios would be interested. Would the cast? Who knows they’d likely have to do it for little money. Who knows if Joss even wants to write anything more about it? If he wants to just do new stuff, more power to him. I just answered the question a lot of people had asked me.
Squiggleslash: “I watched the movie first. I had no problems understanding it. Further, as I pointed out, the movie was critically acclaimed, with a fresh rating of 81% on RT. I don’t believe it would have received the positive critical reception it had if the reviewers had had to sit through fifteen hours of Firefly to understand what was going on.”
Not what I said. I said if you weren’t someone like me or you, i.e., the wider audience, you had to have seen the series to fully appreciate it. Sure, WE could appreciate it, in particular because I had looked up what Firefly was ABOUT, even though I hadn’t seen the series. But a wider audience just looking for a movie to watch on Friday night probably didn’t know. They just saw “sci fi movie in space” and wandered in to see…”cowboys in space”. For many people, that probably engendered a “WTF” reaction.
“It flopped because there’s no general interest in the Firefly concept or universe.”
Which is exactly what I said – the wider audience didn’t understand what it was about because they hadn’t seen the series. That has NOTHING to do with why the series failed!
“Firefly where fans had to buy the DVDs to watch the show in its entirety”
Uhm, not owning the DVD myself, what are you talking about? The show may have been shown out of order in broadcast, but in order on the DVD. So what? The fans bought the DVD BECAUSE THEY LIKED THE SHOW regardless of the order it was shown in. And the level of DVD sales indicates that those who bought the show and showed it to others continued to attract viewers. We don’t have enough figures to determine precisely how many or to what effect, but we just as much anecdotal evidence as you do with your “nobody I know cares” comment.
Besides which, you said the DVD sales were irrelevant because they had nothing to do with the show’s popularity. If you are saying they have nothing to do with the show’s broadcast ratings, that may be a correct – but irrelevant – statement. The issue at hand is whether the DVD sales indicates a broader interest in the show than the show’s ratings indicated. I’d say that case is valid. Then you cite the movie as an example of why it’s not valid, and I pointed out the very valid reasons why the movie wouldn’t have done as well as it could have, and that therefore the movie’s results are irrelevant to whether a rebooted TV show would work or not.
As for character development, I addressed that in my post. Cite some TV shows with much better character development. As I said, Chuck took two seasons to move him past the “Buy More nerd” status. Most shows aren’t about character development, they’re about character exploration. Character development takes time and is DIRECTLY related to the events of the story arc. They have to be because it’s the events of the story arc that produce development in the characters. Since Firefly was mostly a stand alone series with serial development only in the River Tam story arc, it stands to reason that character development – as opposed to character exploration – would take a longer time to come to fruition. The same is true of TSCC – except in season two, it was all about DESTRUCTIVE character development.
As for “two-dimensional” characters, every single one of the characters, with the possible exception of Wash, had depths one doesn’t often find in standard cop procedurals. Mal, of course, being the central character, had the most complex character. But Shepherd Book, Zoe, even Jayne with his constant wavering between being a supporting member of the crew and a betrayer out for his own skin, had considerable depths to them. They were no more two dimensional than anybody else on television.
Nick’s approach to this is reasonable: do a couple TV movies on a low budget, then pitch a series. It’s the only way it could come back. But if it did, it would do better than the original IF – and it’s a big IF – it was properly promoted and represented to the wider audience AND it was given enough episodes to develop its audience and story arc.
One season of 13 episodes is not enough for a Whedon show, that seems clear from all his projects, as people point out that the first season of Buffy was lame. It needs two seasons of 13 or one of 22. Had Firefly had 22 episodes, it could have wrapped up the whole River Tam/Serenity plot easily by season’s end, and a lot of the criticisms would have been answered. Then it would have depended on where Whedon took season two.
I’m inclined to agree with the naysayers that this isn’t going to happen for various reasons, but Nick was simply asking COULD it happen and HOW. And I agree with his approach.
“It flopped because there’s no general interest in the Firefly concept or universe.”
“What I do believe is that those who think it’s compelling are in a tiny minority. I think if there was mass interest in the show, then Serenity would have been popular”
The show is 7 years old now? And it is still in the top 200 sometimes hitting the top 20 in sales … I am guessing even against newer shows/dvds.
Yea … must be that same tiny minority of fans blowing all their cash buying the dvd series over and over.
Must be one heck of a landfill somewhere.
If what Chet said about Joss no longer wanting to do it, then it’s a done deal and it doesn’t matter who holds the rights or how well a movie would do and if the cast is available, etc. Without Joss, there is no hope this is going to happen or the fans will want to see it even if it does happen.
The last I heard Joss talk about it, it was something he wanted to do and if the opportunity ever arose he’d jump at it. That was awhile back, but I find it hard to believe that would have changed. I know he’s tiring of BUFFY, but I think he still has things to tell about the FIREFLY characters.
Bring it back!
“On March 12, 2009, the series(Fire Fly) was the winner of the first annual Hulu awards in the category “Shows We’d Bring Back”.” quoted from wiki. cited from Hulu.com
First ever Hulu.com awards, The fans voted for Firefly.
7 years after the series is over. Only aired 11 episodes in 2002 3 more in 2003. Out of all the canceled series the fans voted for Firefly.
I guess that same tiny minority of fans must have rigged the voting … only thing I can think of since some people in this thread think Firefly has no appeal to anyone.
The post Firefly series DVD sales numbers without a doubt prove that there were way more of a fanbase than FOX had once believed, and that alone should be reason enough for the rebirth of the series. The blend of western – scifi, coupled with the colorful characters, awkward unfulfilled romantic overtones and impressive action scenes make this an enjoyable show for a wide range of viewers.
If you haven’t had the chance to enjoy this series, take the time and watch it, (HULU.COM has the complete first season) by the end of the season you’ll be begging for more. The full length motion picture as well will keep you on the edge of your seat, and show the story behind the damaged parcel known as “River”. To the FOX execs, I say, do yourself a favor, bring it back, and sit back and collect bank.
Our family just watched the series this year – loved it! We just saw the movie – loved it. We haven’t enjoyed a series like Firefly in a long time. We want more.
Nick I hope you are right
As i want to see it myself
I think Intersect Kung-Fu Chuck Bartowski could take crazy schizophrenic Reader River Tam.
Heck one friend suggested airing a 3 episode mini-series after AMERICAN IDOL during a week in February when the Winter Olympics are on. There are definitely opportunities for something with it.
Why not try getting FX (or USA or anyone really) to do Firefly as a summer mini-series when peoples schedules are more free? The cable networks have shown they can do some really good stuff on these summer series. I would gladly take a 8-15 episode season with a well scripted story. I know the people involved with Firefly can do it. I think this is a fan’s best case scenario right now. Next would be doing a number of made for TV, straight to DVD movies. Fans would eat them up. Fine if the quality is not movie theater level, this stuff is done on a reduced budget. Firefly fans will take whatever they can get as long as we get what made us love the show.
I only found about Serenity a few weeks ago when I recorded a late night sci fi movie. It was good enough that I bought the DVD, and in so doing discovered Firefly – and bought the DVD set. So for anyone to say that only the original fans would watch a new production, really indicates they are hopelessly out of touch. We’re still finding out about this, by chance, by word of mouth, via the net.
I’ve had doubts whether another production would work, but I think with the ability and commitment people brought to it before – I’d trust them to do it again.
I wouldn’t be seeing american TV though – I won’t show in the ratings – but I have money waiting to buy a DVD – asap.
I’m a seriously dedicated Firefly/Serenity fan, and although I’ve not read all of the comments above, I want to comment about a couple of things.
Thanks for the article, Nickc. Nice to read some positive thoughts about the subject. I don’t think fans will jump to conclusions ( this is always being said about FF/S/Whedonite fans and for the majority of us, it’s not true.) We take news with a grain of salt, be happy for the rumors and move on til the next one comes up.
I’ve always thought that a tv movie/direct to DVD movie is the only viable way I see for anything in the Firefly verse to return.
TV series and movies seem to me to have passed their opportunity entirely.
Something with no more committment than a 2 hour movie ( not theatrical ) seems doable to me. I don’t know anything about figures, so I have to take you at your word, Nick and I do.
If someone with money, Joss and the actors and crew want to do it and think it can be done, I have no doubt it can be done. If the stars align, I think it’s as possible as a finely done, well written, well acted re-boot of BSG.
Remember when we heard THAT news? Yeah…not so much with the positive thoughts there and yet, it turned out to be an award winning genre offering and except for folks who just hated it, we all benefited.
Anything is possible ( not probable ) and I see Nick, you’re careful to couch this as speculation with a bit of info from inside . Other folks do that all the time and we all read it and enjoy it and then see what happens.
I also don’t think the fans would rabidly be unsatisfied with whatever is produced. Nor would they clamor for more anymore than they’ve already done for the last 5 years +. Browncoats/Whedonites happen to be pretty outspoken and sometimes they can be overwhelming but all in all, most of us are pretty patient.
We hang around the fandom, do charity work ( the CantStoptheSerenity screenings are soon! the KidsNeedtoRead Foundation continues! )and wait to see what happens. We watch and discuss lots of other stuff and we enjoy our community.
So, to me this is fun speculation with a bit of backing. If it happens, I’ll be happy, if it doesn’t I’ll look forward to the next genre show.
I would like to say I would love to see Firefly back, or other movies in place of a series. I would like to add I think the show could omit the character of Jayne (a novel but easily replaceable character), as Adam Baldwin seems reluctant to commit. However, the show would have serious difficulty moving forward without at least 80% of the characters especial Malcolm Reynolds.
If the series were brought back, it has an expanding fan base. I became a fan after watching TSCC and being told about Serenity. However, they would still have to market the show well, because if I recall correctly even after heavy firefly DVD sales Serenity did poorly in the theaters. No doubt it is a good product, but it has never seemed to catch the attention of its audience. My guess is the sci-fi premise reduces the number of people willing to give the show a try. If it comes back it would all be about marketing to maintain it.
I am not a Joss Whedon fan per se and I didn’t see Firefly in its original run on broadcast television. I saw the Serenity movie because I enjoy science fiction and then was made aware of the TV series. I am one of those people who bought a DVD of the series quite a while after it was out.
Some peoples thoughts that the special effects were average and not as good as some of the other major pictures that have come out are true. Fortunately the true measure of the show is in the quality of the acting and writing which were both quite good.
I could see some success with a movie of the week or maybe two a season. You would need to get all of the major players back though and that is still what I see as the major stumbling block to this endeavor. Quite a few of them have good gigs going on currently and don’t need or want the work.
It would be interesting though!
Lizard
What Fox should do is bring back The Unit, and pair it with 24!
Dustin: “I think Intersect Kung-Fu Chuck Bartowski could take crazy schizophrenic Reader River Tam.”
Not a chance. River back-kicked a guy in the BACK of his head while standing in front of him. Not even Jet Li could have done that move! LOL!
River took out a whole bar of roughnecks AND a whole mob of Reavers. She’d kick Chuck into next week.
Chuck “knows kung-fu”. River was described as “a living weapon”. She shot three guys without even looking at them, using her ESP.
Sorry, no.
For those who haven’t seen her in action, here is the famous bar fight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwVqW6J4FRc
And here’s the Reavers fight – which I wish had been much longer than it was.
River pwns some Reavers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKIHt3naPCk&feature=related
And here’s how Summer trained for the bar scene:
Summer Glau WuShu training
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1BMqNYOyFU
Notice how complimentary the stunt men are. The funny bit is where Joss says, “The more she has to deal with, the better” – and Summer makes a face like, “Oh, God!” LOL!
And watch for that one move where she’s completely stretched out, her leg back-kicking a guy in the throat behind her, while her right arm is stretched out in front of her in another guy’s stomach. Chuck Bartowski couldn’t even get INTO that position while NOT fighting! LOL!
I like being in the minority. I’d much rather have 13 episodes of Firefly than 4 seasons of Jon & Kate plus Eight.
There is someone claiming Firefly/Serenity DVD sales were HUGE? And that they dont use public data but only data from fantasy land? Thats rich. If the DVD sales were there would have been a sequel. Serenity just about made enough money to meet the Production budget. Any DVD money was likely lucky to cover the promotion and distribution budget – hence no sequel was made (or likely ever will be). Just because a DVD sells well within a narrowly defined set of parameters like:
(a) #1 in Movies & TV > Television > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Firefly ( OF COURSE FIREFLY WOULD BE NUMBER ONE, HOW MANY SCI-FI FANTASY SHOWS NAMED FIREFLY HAVE THERE BEEN? ONE.
(b) #8 in Movies & TV > Television > Fox TV LIMITING IT TO FOX IS POINTLESS AS FOX HAS VERY FEW SHOWS THAT LEND ITSELF TO DVD INTEREST
and (c) #12 in Movies & TV > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Series & Sequels LIMITING THIS TO SCI FI AND FANTASY NARROWS THINGS WAY TOO FAR. WHAT ABOUT ALL SERIES? ALL SCI FI SERIES – ITS LIKELY CONSIDERABLY LOWER.
Firefly is a classic cult show (couldnt stand it at all all). Its just like Jericho and Moonlight that still has crazy fans trying to bring those shows back. A $4 million movie would end up like direct to DVD – WAR OF THE WORLDS 2 (the sequel to the Tom Cruise version) – how many people even know they made that movie?
Serenity was made 5 years ago. It put the final nail in the coffin. Even when it was on the air almost nobody watched it. Some might point the revival of “V” – currently returning as a reimagined (like what they did with BSG) and the original creator of “V” Kenneth Johnson is taking the big screen movie approach where the 2nd miniseries and weekly series are discarded. Will these do what like Serenity was to Firefly? Dont know. B but “V” (the miniseries at least) were huge ratings hits (the weekly series was a real dud – which killed it for the next 20 years, primarily done in by the corny cheesy ending to the V The Final Battle).
While its true low rated marginal shows like Chuck and DULLhouse are getting a final shot those 2 shows still had sets and key people in place – if the ratings for those 2 do anything but go down resulting in one final swing of the axe, I will be surprised. I expect the results to be rather like Jericho – Season 2.
Firefly coming back? It has about the same chance as Jericho or Moonlight or dozens of other cult shows. Slim and None – and Slim is at the train station waiting to board the last train out of Crazy Town. Once a low rated show shuts down production, the sets are gone and the actors go their separate ways, its over.
Flame bait much, Bad Robot?
Bad Robot! Yawn. Really? DVD numbers from fantasy land? Try Video Business. If you want online numbers there is a place, but it only goes back to 2006 and it only keeps track of sales that made the top 30 lists. However this shows FIREFLY breaking in after 196 weeks in release:
http://www.the-numbers.com/dvd/charts/weekly/2007/20070909.php
It sold 41,000 units! You’ll also see they have no other data for it. However it backs up my claims just nicely. You’ll notice another of the top TV series sold on DVD is on that same chart: HEROES Season One.
Nick C-
I think you are great and all, don’t get me wrong, but wouldn’t you think that had the movie done well in the box office, FOX would have jumped on this? I was actually surprised at how well the movie DIDN’T do. I wouldn’t say it was a bomb, but it definately did not live up to expectations.
You know what, I’m going to stop posting on the subject, because I’m probably coming across as an ass, and I know I’ve been sidetracked on some issues that actually don’t really have much bearing on anything. I do think though that fans should examine the movie’s performance and the causes of the DVD sales more critically than they’re doing. DVD sales of Firefly have a different cause and different context to that of Family Guy.
It’s very easy, when it’s a show you like, to overestimate how much others would like it, especially if you feel the show was treated unfairly. For a modern day equivalent, take a look at T:SCC and how fans are reacting to the death of that show. From my standpoint, T:SCC wasn’t a likeable series, except for the first season, it wasn’t something people were going to stomach for as long as it did.
The fanbase doesn’t accept that. T:SCC had poor ratings, they complain, because Fox interfered at the beginning of the second season. Because Fox moved it to a Friday. Because Fox didn’t promote it enough. Try to explain that the show turned into “All My Circuits” and bored the audience to tears to the T:SCC fan community and they’ll flame you from here to Judgement Day.
I’m not going to complain if either T:SCC or Firefly returns, but I just don’t see where the general audience is going to be. There’s a risk here of killing it with overly high expectations.
I’ll shut up now. Good luck, hope it’s made, but hope too it’s a Friday evening special, not an American Idol following flop.
Why not pursue a serious sci fi show… as ANIMATION?
Not necessarily japanese anime, it can get a little too out there at time.
But why not animate it? Like Terminator or Firefly… costs go way down for special effects and even the cost of paying an actor.
If i was nathan filion or summer glau or whoever, and I could make an extra paycheck every week for doing a few hours of voice acting for something like this, i’d jump at it.
Something is lost in animation.dont get me wrong i am an animation buff. My wife is also an Scifi Buff-However she finds it hard-as others do to get into a “cartoon”.Ghost in The Shell,Akira etc-i probably own them all my kids love it but my wife cant get into it-even the serious story anime.That brings me to my next point-Scifi fans are the ones that buy DVDs- and we buy the the extra collectors edition boxed tin ….whatever. As far as being enough Firefly fans-there are still Firefly parties and showings for Charities goin on.Also fans are worldwide. Like anything else Some people will like it and some wont.Now if we are talking a tv miiseries or made for TV movies i think that will fly off the shelves just like stargate or(insert scifi fan show here )So yeah i think its a viable thing. Some people have mentioned back stories etc yes i agree.I dont think this will happen-Though i really want it to-But viable -yes make money in the right medium forum-yes. merchandising etc-yes.
my two pennies
By September 2005, its DVD release had sold approximately 500,000[79] copies and was one of the top movers at Amazon.com for months. At Amazon.com the DVDs had average daily rankings of between 1st and 75th in 2003, 22nd and 397th in 2004, 2nd and 232nd in 2005, and 2nd and 31st in 2006 as of June 27, 2006.[80]
More info from the wiki page …
Considering the consistent high rankings for years.From just one source Amazon.com I am not sure how you would think it couldnt find an audience past the cult crowd. As well as considering out of all the choices it was voted most wanted canceled series back on hulu.com … I am pretty sure a few people use hulu.com so it must be a somewhat decent sample.
I am not saying it would be the #1 hit … But I am sure it would do better this time around than last time. I always felt like Fox was trying to sneak it through in the middle of the night. They treated it like a disease and wanted to get rid of it.
The show is a tough sell … space cowboy with a countryish style intro song. Most people would see the commercial and say to themselves thats gotta be crap.
How else do you explain why the low viewership but such a high praise from most people that watch it … I have heard countless stories of people saying , I borrowed the dvd series from a friend watched it all in 2 days and went out and bought a copy for myself.
Of course I have heard negative things as well .. but its around 80%+ people enjoyed it.
After all the facts that have been brought up in this thread about dvd sales and stuff … I cant see how it wouldnt do well if they brought it back in some form or another.
I could be reading this exact same thread about a different series I personally thought was the worst ever … but would still wonder if it gets so much praise and has such good dvd sales .. why dont they bring it back.
I’m highly skeptical something like this would really work out, but not for the hotly contested reasons discussed to death already. Firstly, I’m reminded of the reasons there haven’t been any Angel followups on TV (movie length or not). As Nick C pointed out, the core of the FF cast do not hurt for work – even if the shows they currently star in are cancelled. For many actors, there needs to be a promise of a FEATURE film in order to get major actors back. Like David Boreanz said before (in of course the most diplomatic way possible), he would only revisit the Angel character if it was a feature film. That hasn’t happened and so no Angel. With FF, they did get a feature film. I’d be very surprised if the core actors, being as busy as they are and being as not-hardup-for-work as they are, would simply go back to an old character for TV movies.
I’m certainly not disputing that a studio would like reviving the series or making tv movies because of the DVD and ad incentives. However, I find it quite unrealistic that all involved would go from TV show to feature film then somehow managed to get everyone back aboard to a scaled back tv movie. It’s just not a logical character progression for non-struggling actors. It’s like going from backup to starter and then willingly going back to being a role player.
I worked in representation during and after graduate school and something proposed here is just not something that would be recommended to any client who isn’t in distress in one form or another.
As I said before, I’m sure Nick C’s take is a fairly represented view of the studio’s thinking. However, I think this plan faces much harsher difficulties on another side. Personally, I can also see squiggle’s point about the fandom not always having a proper perspective on overall appeal. However, I do believe FF has a different appeal on its own and likely holds up a bit better than say TSCC. I also believe the Family Guy argument is inaccurate and mostly irrelevant. Family Guy was about bringing back 1 guy, who wasn’t do much else and certainly not anything bigger. Also, it never made it to a big budget feature film before being relaunched. Factually speaking, it faces far far fewer difficulties in revival than FF does now.
@ Nick C, a direct quote from your link to DVD Sales numbers:
“Precise information on DVD sales is not generally available. Our DVD sales figures are estimates based on studio figures, publicly available data, and private research on retail sales carried out by Nash Information Services. The figures include estimated sales at Wal-Mart and other retailers that do not publicly release sales information.”
If you are claiming to post real numbers, I suggest you do so from a source which provides actual numbers, not ESTIMATES. Based on their own research techniques as noted in the quote, “The Numbers” website is about as accurate as the old Billboard charts- pre Soundscan.
I think I remember having this same conversation with Bad Robot in the past, about the very same website. But for a different reason (Jericho)
.
You are missing one big thing:
NBC Universal is the owner of one of the most successful networks in the genre: SCI FI. Whereas mainstream nets have been marginally successful at SF and fantasy shows and movies, I have no doubt in my mind that a TV movie on Firefly airing at the SciFi channel will be a HUGE hit.
Considering the success they had with Stargate and BSG, a new Firefly-themed series on the Friday night would be an absolute bombshell, which would make FOX bang their head against the wall for cancelling the show.
Shiny. We need to start a letter writing campaigne.
TV movies would be a great idea…I sure would watch along with half of my friends (the smart ones) and I may even buy the DVD just to complete my collection. FOX, please do it!
Let’s look at Firefly’s current Sales Rank at Amazon where it’s now priced at $32.99. The set has often sold for $19.99, so that’s not a good bargain by any stretch of the imagination.
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #265 in Movies & TV (See Bestsellers in Movies & TV)
Considering ALL of the TV series and movies that Amazon offers for sale and pre-order, then that seems like a pretty good ranking to me. In fact, let’s compare it to a show like T:SCC Season 2, where there is a vocal fanbase that one would think is eager to buy those DVD’s as soon as they become available. T:SCC Season 2 is:
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #243 in Movies & TV (See Bestsellers in Movies & TV)
Those rankings seem pretty close to me, even though one is for a show that has been on DVD for over 5 years and the other is at or near the height of it’s popularity. Speaking of Terminator, let’s look at T:SCC Season 1, which is on a pretty good looking sale for $18.49 and hasn’t even been out for an entire year yet:
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #458 in Movies & TV (See Bestsellers in Movies & TV)
Wow! The numbers aren’t even close. Firefly clearly sells much better than T:SCC S1. But if we want close, then let’s look at the DVD sales for another series that debuted several years ago like Firefly but has gone on to great TV ratings and a long run. That would be Lost. Lost Season 1 for but a few dollars more at $39.99 is currently:
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #259 in Movies & TV (See Bestsellers in Movies & TV)
So Lost sells 6 spots better than Firefly as I write this at 2:30-ish PM PST. That does not seem like a very big difference to me. Firefly may not have had the ratings of a hit show, but it absolutely does have the DVD sales of one, as anyone without a bias would be able to tell you.
All other comparisons aside, it is currently Fox’s 12th best selling DVD out of hundreds of titles, which means that Fox is making a lot of $$$ from it. Ultimately isn’t that one of the key questions here, whether more Firefly would or would not be profitable for Fox? Based on these numbers, I clearly think that they would.
LJ: The actors in Firefly have repeatedly said they would love to do the series again – and they have said so recently. So your main point is moot.
Clutz: Try again. If you’re looking for absolute numbers, there is NEVER such a thing in the media business. Not in TV. Not in movies. Not in music. Not in DVD sales. So it’s a straw man. Nick pointed you to the best available numbers and to Video Business. If that’s not good enough, sorry, it still makes the point that Firefly DVDs sell very well even compared to current series.
Speaking of TV shows that just were not successful during their original runs, let’s look at Star Trek. NBC allowed it to hang on for about 3 seasons, gave it many chances to improve and yet the numbers and audience simply weren’t there. Clearly Star Trek was not and never would be a successful show in any form. The facts spoke for themselves. Fortunately for us, no one was delusional enough to attempt to revive it as that only would have been a major waste of time and money.
/sarcasm
Do I honestly think that a Firefly revival would have anywhere near the success that Star Trek has? No. But the fans are intensely loyal and they continually recruit new people to the show in what has probably been one of the most successful viral campaigns ever for a TV program. That is why those DVD numbers are continuously so high and that is part of why a Firefly revival would be much more successful than the original show’s ratings would indicate.
So a bunch of uber-geek teenage shut-ins who live in their mother’s basement (and still will be when they’re 40) and worship at the Temple of Whedon each bought multiple copies of “Firefly” and “Serenity” on DVD. Good for them. Would NBC bring it back? LOL. Too funny. Yeah, I’m sure Universal is just jonesing to bring back a franchise that couldn’t even rake in half of its production budget at the box office. Hell, it couldn’t even rake in its entire production budget if you throw in non-domestic B.O.! WHAT A HIT!!!11
As Bill would say, Ignore This! What I really want to know is, when is FOX going to bring back “The Bernie Mac Show?”
It brought in $38.8 million (shortly after it was made) it cost $40 million… well over half the production rate. By now im sure its well over $40 million.
GSSERENITY, while Riff is wrong, you are, too.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=serenity.htm
Serenity made $25.5 mil domestically (which is what Riff said didn’t make half its production budget), which is more than half of $39 mil production budget (though that does not include promotion). But Riff is right that in total it made just barely under its production budget. But Riff is very wrong that any studio would be uninterested in a property that can make millions in profit in the DVD market.
Worldwide it made 38.8 though. Whichever if it was remade they’d make money quite definately.
loved the series bought the dvd loved the movie am willing to invest my own money to help bring back FIREFLY!!!!! please im begging you ..lol i feel like a crack head when it comes to the crew of the serenity!! long live the browncoats
and RIFF RAFFERTY IS a goram winnie little b!#&h who does still live with his mommy and probably hasnt even been able to get out of his UNDERROOS!! for 20 years
Let’s treat riff rafferty’s comments with the level of ‘intelligence’ that they deserve.
riff rafferty, Firefly and Serenity fans are like rubber and you’re like glue. Whatever you say to us bounces off of us and back to you! Nah, nah, na nah, nah. LOL.
Actually, if Serenity cost $40 million to make and grossed $38 million in total revenue, it lost money seriously, since movies need to make double their production cost to make money. I know, Hollywood accounting…
Reasons (from an article I found): marketing and promotional costs (combined with substantial fees paid to exhibitors, usually 40% to 65% of box office gross), distribution fees (usually 33%), overhead, interest and expenses (paid usually to studio distributors) and gross participations, greatly reduce the revenue stream flowing to the producer and net profit participants.
So Serenity would have needed to make at least $80 million or so to break even, let alone be profitable. With better promotion and had the movie come out shortly after the series ended so people remembered it or knew what it was about, it MIGHT have been able to do so. As it was, the box office was not good.
But that has nothing to do with whether a revived series would do well after one or more TV movies re-introduced the show to a wider audience.
squiggleslash, to compare FIREFLY to TSCC is atrocious. FIREFLY was critically loved, TSCC wasn’t. FIREFLY was a DVD hit (whether you think FAMILY GUY is more special for being a top 10 all time TV DVD seller when both are on the list, it can’t be from the same people buying over and over) and TSCC was most definitely not a DVD success.
They can’t be compared.
Clutz, Go subscribe to Videoscan and tell me I’m making it up. I’ve seen the numbers FIREFLY is a huge DVD seller.
Nick C, I never said you were making anything up. I said you were providing a link to estimated numbers while referring actual sales figures. You were using a bit of political-style spin when posting The Numbers dot com in discussions of sales numbers, when the disclaimer is obvious.
I have no need to subscribe to Videoscan. If you have Videoscan numbers, feel free to post them. It would be nice to see a numeric definition of “huge seller.” If they’re so top-secret that you are not allowed to post those numbers, that’s fine too. Just be direct about your sources, and their data collection methods, please.
USAToday, not citing a source, claimed half a million sales of the Firefly DVD back when Serenity came out. Someone else claimed two and a half million a couple years later, also with no source. My guess is that’s high, but a million wouldn’t be out of line if the USAToday article was correct.
Since The Numbers was reporting that it sold 45,000 copies for an estimated take of $1.2 million – in ONE WEEK – back in September, 2007, I’d say the odds of it having sold two million copies by now aren’t that bad. Assuming that week was not exceptional, that’s half a million copies a year ever since the DVD came out.
You can bitch about The Numbers being wrong or inaccurate, but anything remotely near those figures means Firefly sold at least a million copies over its span and quite possibly two million.
I haven’t really been following this thread closely, but I have posted a few times and now I have some interest in what Firefly is all about. I was in Target and bought a copy of “Taken” with Lliam Neeson. I found myself browsing the TV section and found “Firefly: the complete series” box set – for $40. I had it in my hand, I almost put it in my shopping cart – but then I put it back and said, NO, I really DON’T have to have this. So tell me people, did I make a mistake? Or is it worth spending the $40??
Rick: Yes. Although if you can get it for less, it might be a safer choice. It all depends how well you can adjust to oddball science fiction. Firefly is like a cheap, more realistic version of the original Star Wars, but with FAR better acting and a more coherent premise and much better story telling.
And “Taken” was really good, too – I was amazed how long it’s first run in theaters was. Despite the very conventional plot – father takes on bad guys over missing daughter, done ten million times already – Liam Neeson did a great job with it.
I loved the part where he deliberately shot the French official’s wife. That was a shocker for the audience.
You have no idea what a big mistake you just made my friend…
Rick Holy, do what I did – watch the entire show first, then decide if it’s something you’ll keep watching over and over and worth buying or not (here’s the Hulu link for you again):
http://www.hulu.com/firefly
You can watch the entire show there, including the 2-hour Serenity pilot (not to be confused with the Serenity theatrical movie) that the lamebrains running Fox decided to scrap, making Joss make another, far less explanatory pilot instead which probably only served to either confuse viewers and/or turn them off the show. If you do want to buy it, buy it from Walmart where you should be able to get it for about $30, or from Amazon which has it for $32.99 plus free shipping.
Comparing Firefly and Serenity’s sales performances seems a little apples-and-oranges to me. One is a set of episodes of a planned series, the other is a film essentially designed to cram as much of the Firefly universe into it in only 2 hours. I don’t know if I’m the only one who feels this way (probably) but I didn’t think the movie was nearly as good, well thought out, or executed as the show was, which is probably why the show sells so well on dvd but the movie didn’t do well at the box office (even with the argument that the movie wasn’t marketed well, I know there are fans of the movie who didn’t think it was as good as the show). I’ve found that I can rewatch the show over and over, but every time I try to watch Serenity, I lose interest about halfway through – it’s just too busy and too rushed, and the reavers storyline feels draggy and choppy.
Firefly is on Hulu.com If you enjoy it on hulu then buy the dvd set. The dvd set has commentary on several episodes that were very easy to watch/listen too .. the actors are very funny and have good stories about certain things that happened when filming the episodes.
If you have blu ray … I think there are new commentaries and features on the blu ray compared to the normal dvd set. I think .. I thought I read it somewhere.. dont take my word on that tho .. I am guessing you could find out easy enough reading the box or amazon.com
Now while some people may disagree about whether this show should be brought back or not, that is not the point. The point is Firefly has developed an extremely loyal fan base that would love to see these characters return in one form or another.
There are those who say that the show has been off the air for to long to be resurrected, but have you even noticed that most of what you find on television and the movies nowadays is a reboot, or a continuation.
It is not like many of these ‘new’ shows are really a sincere attempt at intelligent entertainment, but more so a shinny regurgitation of past shows, I mean really how many more cop/csi shows can they cram onto TV.
Look at heroes for example, the first season was great. The second and third season where no where close to the caliber of this show. And yet it keeps getting renewed because they know enough people will keep watching it, for them to make a profit.
Bringing this show back in any form is far less risky then most of what is being put out, how many failed shows are put out year after year. At least enough people want to see this and are willing to pay for it, I’m not saying that everyone will like it, because that’s not possible.
But For f@#k sake they brought back 90210 and that show always sucked, so that gives me a little hope.
Side note-
Taken was a overly contrived cheesy movie, entertaining to watch-Yes, a good movie-Not even close.
@Rick Holy,
In my experience, the vast majority of the people who like Firefly don’t just like it, they adore it. It can be a very bittersweet experience because for those people it is among the best shows of all time and the more that you watch then the closer that you come to the end. And as the minutes tick by then there are many who become at least a little (and sometimes very) emotional as the end comes, because it reminds them that there is nothing more.
But there are some who have a mixed opinion and find things to like about it, but don’t really get what the fuss is.
And of course there are some who don’t enjoy it at all.
At worst, you won’t like it. But there’s a chance that it may be one of the greatest TV shows that you have ever seen, one that you will love for the rest of your life. Only you can know whether or not you are willing to take that risk.
My brother just loaned me the DVD set, and I enjoyed watching it all. I would love to see it brought back.
The people that make the Stargate shows did pretty much the same thing with SG-1 and it was a huge success. And that’s a franchise that hardly ever gets any mainstream attention. Just the fan base alone made it a success.
The only point I’d disagree with is the $4 million budget. The last 2 straight-to-DvD Stargate movies were budgeted at $7 million (Ark of Truth) and $10 million (Continuum). I’m a little skeptical that a straight-to-DvD FireFly movie would have a budget 1/2 that size.
I like Dollhouse, but I love Firefly. I bought the DVD and the Movie. If they brought it back in any form (TV or Movie) I would both watch and buy it. Since the show has been a commercial success (post broadcast) it makes sense to try to cash in on that. SO many shows are duds.
NickC,
Does the success or failure of productions like http://browncoatsmovie.com/
effect the decisions of the networks?
Could a successful (especially with the way today’s on line video world works) fan film improve or impede the chances of a new movie or series being made?
thx,
Nick – OK, you misrepresented what I wrote, so I’ll post to correc that: I was talking about FAN BASES, not shows. FAN BASES. Where the hell did I say T:SCC was just like Firefly? Why would you even think I would write that?
I used T:SCC as an example because everyone here knows it went to crap in the second season and knows the causes of that. Despite that, T:SCC’s fans – like Firefly’s – act as if the blame lies with everything except the show, and if T:SCC had just had a little more marketing or less interference from the network, it would have been a roaring success.
T:SCC fans, like Firefly’s, refuse to accept that some shows just aren’t popular. Unfortunately, bouyed by ONE statistic that T:SCC doesn’t have (T:SCC also started getting positive reviews towards the end, though Joss knows how, and T:SCC has been topping “renewal” polls for months) – high DVD sales – Firefly’s fans are under the impression that somehow Firefly is a popular TV show or would be if only Fox would renew it, and show all the episodes, and show them in the right order.
Fans are very bad judges of whether a show is capable of attracting decent ratings.
I am really curious about how many Firefly dvds have been sold and how well it is currently selling. Firefly fans constantly point out how well it sells without posting much if any proof. The only proof I have seen is the numbers at http://www.the-numbers.com/. While the numbers listed there look good, the information is very incomplete.
when comparing the movie SERENITY
remember it was made-not only to finsh the unanswered questions of the series and finsh storylines,but it needed to be open enough that someone who never saw the series Firefly would also be able to get into and understand.
It was a fine line to walk-i thought done well considering.
I too have my faults with it-all in all it was masterfully done.
everyone is talking how the movie did-as we have no other real comparision.But i will tell you thats not a fair account of the series as it was made to finish the series unanswered questions and storylines.basically they scrped together a movie and from DVD sales alone you can see its stood up well even years later-that says alot. What if they had had a real budget 100 million?more time?etc-would it have done better etc-we will never know-But there is definatly an audience willing to fork over money for it
DVD sales alone say a dvd movie is worthwhile-so i am a huge fan-guilty as charged but the dvd sales on amazon and elsewhere back me up.
its YEARS later and the series has sold better than newer series
as gump says
and thats all i have to say about that
Im a BROWNCOAT and im proud
I really don’t have a dog in this fight, just thought I’d make a suggestion. I watched and enjoyed both Firefly and Serenity, but wasn’t blown away by either of them. I thought they were ok, but I was not enraged by the cancellation.
Why doesn’t Nick C start a company to raise the funds to make the Firefly movies that he proposes. He can use his alleged inside contacts to help sell and promote the idea.
Everyone else that wants to bring Firefly/Serenity back can then put their money where their mouths (or keyboards) are by contributing to this foundation.
The anti Firefly folks and those that aren’t fanatic Firefly supporters can then sit back and watch the results. This will ultimately settle who is right, the “I love Firefly” group or the “Firefly was a crappy show and should stay dead” group.
I personally doubt that anyone will take any action other than to blast my suggestion on line, because most people are much more free with other people’s money than they are with their own. It’s easy for someone to say, “They should make another movie” or “They should start up the series again” when the speaker is not “They”.
The only problem with your tscc / firefly theory is Firefly never went to crap. It just never had the chance to find its fans. Which apparently is a problem for some scifi shows. From what I have heard and read star trek had a bumpy road. I hear it went well tho. Also x-files was almost canceled after the first season. I hear that one last a few seasons and a couple people enjoyed it.
There really isnt any way you can compare tscc with firefly … tscc had a bumpy second season , so much so I even became bored with it. But it did end well. Firefly started and ended on a high note. Also personally I think Firefly was better all around than tscc. Personal opinion.
Maybe I will give comparing the two a thought in 6 years if tscc fans are still crying about the cancellation and wishing they would bring it back. Or if the dvd sales hold up like Firefly dvd sales have over the past 7 years.
I believe if Firefly had poor dvd sales over a 7 year span there wouldnt be any talk of renewal.
Squig you keep saying the fans are delusional and there are not that many … I think maybe your the one that isnt opening your eyes to the facts. dvd sales and the hulu thing. Honestly I would agree with you its just a small group of fans that want it back … on most shows. My reason is because most shows that get canceled there is a loud squawk for a few months maybe a year. But the reason I think Firefly is different is because of how long this squawking has been going on and to read what 8-10 people say about Firefly after watching it on hulu.
There is more than one thread on hulu with favorite lines. One of them is over 17 pages most of them are not repeats. This is for a show that was only 13 episodes long.
But you guys with the negative thoughts can live in your world. Thats fine with me. I will stay in mine where people believe in good qualities like respect and hope..
viper perhaps you missed it
There are people activly trying to do just that.
Squiggleslash….sorry it’s a matter of fact that comparing the history (better?) of Firefly with the history of TSCC is not, by any mean, an apple to apple comparison
No offense to anyone trying to do that, chet, but trying to get the fans to finance something like this is ridiculous, unless the fandom includes Bill Gates or Oprah. It’s clear that type of project will require the type of financial backing only a studio with millions can provide. If it were really possible to do it with only the type of money that fans themselves can feasibly raise, Joss Whedon himself could’ve afforded to do it, but it doesn’t, so he can’t. Only a studio’s willingness to approach Whedon to do this and ask him how it can be done will make this project anything more than a pipe dream, and I don’t know who Nick talked to or what they said or how much power they have, but right now it doesn’t seem like anyone is approaching that level of commitment.
Chet, maybe I did. Say how much do you plan to invest? Or do you plan to wait for these mythical “people” to spend their money on it?
i agree with you shelly
there is no movement on a remake in the works etc
but
we seem to be talking about 2 things
i think its viable and like the title of this thread=we are speculating whether it would be worthwile for a network -NBC perhaps to pick up and make a miniseries- a straight to dvd movie etc or even another series
all we have to go on is the series itself and tthe movie and the DVD sales of both afterwords
if they decided to do it would it be worthwhile? would it make money? in advertising?merchandising?DVDsales?etc
i think it would
i llook at some other straight to DVD movies-stargate,farscape etc as [proof this is possible.
viper read the above
Shelly, surely if there really are legions of fans clammoring for Firefly’s return even a grass roots campaign should produce more than enough money to finance a rebirth production. Look at the last presidential campaign. Tons of money were raised online using small donors of $5-$200.
I don’t doubt that the money is there, I doubt that there really are millions of fans that are so fanatical about the show that they are willing to crack open their own bank accounts to pay for the show’s resurrection. I think there is a small, but very loud cadre of fanatical fans. I don’t think that this huge “fan base” I keep hearing about really exists.
A small, but very loud group of Jericho fans got CBS to produce a shortened second season, but could not recruit enough new fans to improve the ratings enough to keep it on the air.
I suspect that this is the case here, a small very loud group of die hard fans that have picked this as the hill they want to die on. So be it.
Come on super fans don’t just run your mouths, open your wallets and prove me wrong, raise the money to put Firefly back in production, I dare you.
viper you are a very good troll griefer
ive already explained
its about being viable
please reread what i wrote above
you dont seem to understand
hopefully someone else will explain it to you
yea jericho is the perfect thing to compare it to.(sarcas just in case you didnt know)
they renewed it for a shortened season .. stuck it late at night more than 9 months after the first season ended with little to no promotion.
jericho didnt get voted most wanted show brought back and its only been canceled for a couple of years … how are the jericho dvd sales going anyway?
btw I am a jericho fan, I was disappointed it was canceled. I thought it was pretty good.
I really dont think anyone in this thread said Firefly can be brought back and have better ratings and more fans than every other show. All people are saying is … the show can be popular and make money if brought back in the right circumstances. Based on dvd sales … over the last 6 years and the reaction seen from most people who just watched Firefly season one for the first time.
I am not sure why that concept is so hard to grasp.
You guys seem to think the fan base is small .. yet there are a few things that contradict that.
No Chet, I understood you , you just don’t like what I said. This whole issue is speculation and of the worst sort. I suggested a way that all the Jericho style superfans could DO something instead of just flap their tongues (or keyboards)impotently. You seem offended that I don’t believe a Firefly return in either movie or series form is either practical or viable. That I think it is a bad idea does not make me a “troll” but your resorting to name calling shows me that I scored a direct hit.
Will Rogers once said there are 3 kinds of lies. Lies, damned lies and statistics. I have seen many referals here to dvd sales as “proof” that Firefly is viable. Most of these references fail to cite numbers, and those that do cite somewhat questionable sources. There are any number of ways to “spin” stats.
So in short, I am sceptical of this proposal. No actually I think it’s a little silly.
If you really want to play “what if” let’s make it something more interresting. What if Stonewall Jackson had not been killed at Chancellorsville and could have fought at Gettysburg. Would his leadership have resulted in a Confederate victory instead of a Union one? What do you think?
Yes Leo, CBS screwed with Jericho’s second season, just like Fox did with Firefly. You can’t forget the infamous writer’s strike too. All shows have long breaks now, just how long do you expect it to take to produce even a shortened season of shows, after production had already been ended once. Sorry, but Jericho is a fair comparrison to Firefly.
I don’t think I ever said that a new version of Firefly should not be attempted unless it could get better ratings than every other show, but I do think it is reasonable to shoot for better ratings than it had when it was cancelled. And what’s wrong with striving for the highest ratings that you are capable of? Here is another point of disagreement, I don’t think a rebirth of Firefly in any form is ecomomically feasable.
Are you really advocating the return production of a show that you admit would only pay off under the “right circumstances”. Please tell me you are joking. Say, you weren’t a GM exec were you?
And just for the record, I liked Jericho too, not enough to mail bags of nuts to CBS HQ, but I liked the show. Some shows sadly just miss the mark, don’t have enough of the “Right Stuff” to borrow from yet another movie.
This entry will drop off the front page soon and with it, this debate will likely end and the fans’ hope that there’s any grain of truth to it will once again be put on ice till the next tidbit of news thrown out into the ‘net. So before it does, I’d just like to link to a blog entry that sums up my feelings about Joss and the Firefly universe and everything to a T:
http://dbgrady.wordpress.com/2009/05/28/joss-whedon-grrr-argh
Oops, scroll up from the comments to read the entry.
shelly, i edited the link so that it would go directly to the post…
Thank you so much for this article. I would love to see Firefly/Serenity return. Both have earned real respect, and well deserve another go.
Kcat
Thanks, Robert.
by right circumstances I mean everyone being able to get together to do it. The right promotion and other normal things every show needs. And I find it hard to believe a new tv movie like has been suggested wouldnt do better than the ratings Firefly had the first time around. Its hard for a show to have good ratings when no one knows its on and because of the concept. The concept is a hard sell because people instantly brush it off without a first look. But most of the people that give it a chance love it.
This discussion isnt really going anywhere. Its basically your show has no fans how could it do well. Lets compare it to other shows unfairly and shows it really cant be compared to. Also we dont believe the show sold x ammount of dvds because no one can provide photos of each individual and receipt of purchase of all the dvds sold.
The other side is look at the rankings of just amazon.com alone not even counting other stores in America and worldwide. Amazon claims they sold 500k dvds by 2005. Then after the movie came out the dvds ranking shot up to top 10 or so … so who knows what the number is today.
Also the show was very well done , it kept you interested it had good writing good chemistry between the actors, who obviously loved doing the show , clearly seen on the screen and the dvd commentaries. Great visuals … great foreshadowing.
And it seems like it has plenty of fans since it has been voting most wanted return of a show out of canceled shows in the past.
Other than others who have shared their likes or dislikes. Without counting it seems like there are much more likes than dislikes in this thread alone.
What else can be said that is new? Seems like everyone that has posted multiple times including myself have just said the same things in a different way.
I highly doubt anyones opinion will change considering how strong they seem to be.
I think if the show had a chance to come back in some way it would easily gain momentum and become a viable money maker. It is just up to the right people to make it happen. And continue to promote it.
Others disagree for some reason or another. Thats great , diversity is part of what makes life interesting.
So, which is more likely to actually happen? The Jericho feature film or the Firefly TV movie? Which will we see first?
People are talking about both. The only difference I see is how close the talkers are to the actual productions.
I watched Firefly, Serenity too, I then rewatched Firefly when Sci/Fi put it back on. It was ok, not great, just ok, but somehow something was missing. I gave it a fair shot, as a sci/fi fan I really wanted to like the show. Watching it again shed no light on the missing “spark” I still can’t put my finger on the show’s problem, but I will say that without the missing spark any remake is doomed to failure. It’s a shame too, the story has potential, I just doubt that anyone in a position to put a rebirth to the show would risk the expense and effort it will require.
If it ever returns I will watch it, hoping for a better result. I am realist enough to doubt that that is likely though.
To each his own, hope springs eternal, enjoy your dvds and dream of Firefly’s return. I will seek entertainment elsewhere until that day comes, if I live that long.
Just for the record, who told you anything was fair? All shows are open to unfair comparisons, and must be able to hold their own against unforseen complications. If the show is too weak to be able to gain and sustain good ratings in spite of the scheduling blocks and other BS thrown against it, then maybe it is better off put out of its suffering, like a faithful old hunting dog that can no longer hunt or even walk without agony. Maybe Firefly was put down to ease it’s suffering.
Julia, it did NOT cost $39 million according to people I’ve asked. And even if it did, read Hack’s post immediately below the 2 pieces of drivel. Universal lost a small fortune on that thing. Did they make their money back on home video enough to break even? Maybe… if they sold 10 million copies of it.
Who exactly was this show supposed to appeal to, anyway? Who could relate to it? Who was its target audience? Certainly no one who enjoys the real world. “Firefly” premiered with an 8 share and within 3 weeks was down to a 5 share. So… the audience rejected it. And it was expensive. So it got cancelled. Anyone who understands business (meaning nobody you’ll find on Whedonesque) understands why it lasted 3 months. I know the Whedonuts will argue that Gail Berman aired the episodes out of order and bought a couple extra episodes which she never aired. (As she did for a hundred other shows.) I’ll give them that that’s annoying and disrespectful to the creative people behind the shows. But as for it causing viewers to leave. Please. The show was meant for Whedon’s Grape Flavor Aid cult. Nobody more. Nobody less. Queen Berman could have aired the show backwards, and they wouldn’t have stopped watching. And I had to laugh at some wicked retarded post up above, implying that “Firefly” failed because it was preempted once for sports. OH NOES! A FOX show got preempted by the World Series! THAT’S NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE!!!1
As for the movie, you already got one. It lost money. Did the “John Doe” (you know, “John Doe” — that show that aired after “Firefly” and was always higher-rated than it) viewers get one? Hell, did they even get a DVD _of the show_?
Ill never understand why someone who doesnt like something has to waste their time and try to insult people who do like it… It dont make sense…
Very true GSSERENITY, very true.
Speaking of not making sense, I continue to question those people who ask for “proof” of DVD sales despite the fact that they have been told that those numbers are NOT released to the general public. I did provide some rankings from Amazon in an earlier post that reflect well on Firefly, stats that no one has yet been able to refute.
How about we turn the question around and ask for “proof” that it doesn’t sell well?
In the meantime, why is it that Fox renewed Dollhouse? Why is it that the Fox Studio seems so eager to continue to work with Whedon, even to the extent that it agreed to take on a larger part of the cost of the show for the second Season? Do companies like Fox Studio just throw around money like that to be altruistic, money that they will only get back through DVD and/or merchandise sales? Fox studio DOES have access to those DVD sales numbers for Firefly. Could it be that they see something in them that gives them reason to expect that they will sell a heck of a lot of DVD’s for his future projects? Based on what I have seen then that explanation makes sense to me, if it doesn’t make sense to you then why not?
My story:
I have been a T:SCC fan since the beginning because I love the franchise. During the March/April debates over the future of the show, Firefly fans would draw the paralells between how Fox handled each. To be honest, having never even heard of the show, the frequency of the posts were starting to get annoying.
About three weeks ago, Serenity was on SciFi, so I recorded it. Lat week I started watching Firefly on Hulu. I fell in love with it for all of the reasons listed by fans above. I watched the whole season in 4 nights (sound familiar?)
Today I bought Serenity and the Firefly collection.
I know this is anecdotal, but based on this story, many like it, and the amount of chatter on Hulu, it might just be possible that the fan base is growing and has been for some time. After all, I doubt Browncoats are watching Hulu when they own the DVDs (or multiple copies according to some, LOL.) Dong ma?
Crap. To followup on my own post, Virtuality’s 2 hour movie is just being moved to June 26th, a week earlier. The rumors that Fox was putting the show into production for a full season was overblown by a couple websites using some quotes from a producer.
So much for Virtuality replacing Dollhouse in the Spring. I was hoping for more than just Whedon trying to flaunt Eliza Dushku’s cleavage for a sci-fi series. Although I won’t object to looking.
I guess it’s just Fringe for me, the pilots look horrid.
Ok. I got passed this link by a friend who’s posted here.
It seems Viper threw down a gauntlet a few comments back that I would like to address. Here’s what I’m talking about:
Viper says: June 2nd, 2009 at 7:18 am
“Everyone else that wants to bring Firefly/Serenity back can then put their money where their mouths (or keyboards) are…”
Well Viper, I’m happy to announce that several of us Firefly Fans have put our money where our mouths are and we’ve financed our own spin-off sequel to Serenity.
“I personally doubt that anyone will take any action other than to blast my suggestion on line, because most people are much more free with other people’s money than they are with their own. It’s easy for someone to say, “They should make another movie” or “They should start up the series again” when the speaker is not “They”.”
We got tired of complaining we weren’t going to see anything more from the ‘verse and went off and made our own. We got Joss Whedon’s blessing, created new characters, and set them in the world left in the wake of the events caused by the crew of Firefly at the end of the film.
We have less than seven days of filming left till we wrap principal production AND we are doing this all for awareness and fundraising for charities either supported or created by the cast of Firefly.
I invite you to check out our website http://www.browncoatsmovie.com and learn more about our project.
As Chet said “Im a Browncoat and im proud”
“How about we turn the question around and ask for “proof” that it doesn’t sell well?”
How about because that is just plain ridiculous. Besides, I’m spending all of my free time trying to prove el chupacabra doesn’t exist.
Good for you Mike! You guys wanted something and took steps to fix your problem. But I don’t think the object of this discussion was to promote fanfic type homemade webflicks. If you can think there is a demand for this as you do go for it. I and I believe others posting here were discussing the return of the actual show. Same characters, actors etc.
Say here is something, you say Whedon gave your webflik his blessings. If that is so,(and I’m not doubting your word) then why would he consider any proposal to restart the original? Yet another reason that the show’s return is not a viable proposal.
To the person that wants to “turn this around” where were you when the rest of us learned that you do not prove a negative? Duh. Education gets worse and worse every year. Besides the stats are the issue, you either believe the numbers source or you don’t. To everything spin spin spin.
“How about because that is just plain ridiculous.”
“To the person that wants to “turn this around” where were you when the rest of us learned that you do not prove a negative? Duh. Education gets worse and worse every year”.
You two seem to be among those who cannot seem to comprehend the fact that the DVD sales numbers ARE. NOT. RELEASED.
And yet you (or other people who are advocating the same position) continue to ask for those numbers and try to use the fact that we cannot produce them as “proof” of something.
What part of “they are not released” is ambiguous? I am simply trying to explain what seems to me to be a very easily comprehended concept. I will quickly concede that my college education did not include advice on how to explain basic facts to people who seem incapable of accepting or understanding them.
Based on the fact that you find fault with me, but not with any of those who take the absence of unavailable DVD numbers as proof of something, then I would say that if anyone’s educational background should be called into question in this thread then it is yours.
The point on DVD sales, IMHO, is quite simple. If accurate sales figures are not released, then NEITHER side can use DVD sales as a valid reasoning behind their conjecture. Speculate, muse, gossip all you want about likelihood of Firefly’s return. But when claiming great DVD sales as a hard fact to support your side, you must be able to prove that side for me to accept it as anything more than conjecture or gossip. Conversely, if you cannot prove DVD sales were not as great as widely reported, then don’t claim “lack of DVD sales” as factual evidence to explain why Firefly won’t be back, either.
When I see direct quotes from actual producers, studio execs, or Whedon himself, then I’ll believe the possibility of a Firefly return is realistic. Until such named, cited sources exist in the debate, this is merely a fun exercise in speculation
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Clutz: “If accurate sales figures are not released, then NEITHER side can use DVD sales as a valid reasoning behind their conjecture.”
THAT’S ruminant evacuation.
While completely accurate sales figures may not be released for music CDs, everybody knows that one band outsells another. Firefly outsells MANY MANY other TV collections. It’s that simple.
And ALL the estimates of Firefly DVD sales indicate that it has sold at least half a million and probably much more AND that it continues to sell well, seven years after being on the air. You simply can’t dismiss that just because you don’t have precise sales figures. It’s ridiculous.
As for being a fun exercise in speculation, if I’m not mistaken, that’s exactly how Nick C intended the post. Therefore, we don’t need quotes from anybody to indicate whether it’s “realistic” or not.
Besides which, you don’t get quotes from people like you request until somebody makes a pitch and offers them a reason to consider it. I suspect if a screenwriter came up with a Firefly TV movie script that Whedon liked, he’d pitch it. At which point we’d SEE what was “realistic” or not.
Frankly the numbers of dvd sales don’t prove anything, one way or the other. The proponents of this pipedream cite numbers from somewhere(perhaps real, perhaps fantasy, doesn’t matter) as one reason that they think this proposal is viable.
There are many other problems to address lest we become mired in a my stats are better than your stats arguement, let me cite a few.
The cast, as others have pointed out are otherwise engaged. Assuming they all want to return many scheduling conflicts would have to be resolved. Two major cast characters were killed in the Serenity movie. Do you unkill them with some cheeezy plot hole or replace them with other charactors? Would the fans accept the new “Wash” and “Book” or buy the unkill storyline(clones, time warp, whatever)?
The props and sets have no doubt been disposed of or destroyed. That means new ones must be made from scratch, very costly, and speaking of costly most of the cast will now command a larger payday than they did in the original show.
What about the writers? Will Whedon agree to return. What pay rate will he demand?
This ain’t gonna be cheap and there is only the chatter on line and the dvd sales figures that even supporters admit are not absolutely accurate to suggest a “fan base” that can ensure a ratings success. If there really are legions of fans where were they the first time around?
Remember, this new show will have to compete in the real world. It might get preempted by sports or news events, it might get moved to another night, it might be put up against one of the other netwotks powerhouse shows. Do you think Firefly II could compete with Lost? When the remake fails, as I believe it will, do we have to listen to the whining and excuses yet again?
At the risk of being criticized for an unfair example I’ll repeat, CBS caved to Jericho fans, the network spent money to produce what the fans wanted and it tanked again.
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to relive it. Or put another way one defination of insanity is repeating the same actions and expecting a different result. So you decide where you stand. This “what if” nonsense has become extremely boreing now. Go raise the money, get the actors and writers and crew and let me know when the premere is scheduled. Till then I have more important things to do. Take care.
Viper says:
“To the person that wants to ‘turn this around’ where were you when the rest of us learned that you do not prove a negative? Duh. Education gets worse and worse every year.”
Ah, yah. I couldn’t care less about Firefly, but this homely bit of popular “wisdom” is false on its face. It’s provably impossible to square the circle, for instance.
In the context here, of course, the turn-this-around “proof” that was suggested in fact meant “evidence,” and the (presumed, but equally fruitless) argument against “negative evidence”–which is to say, against inductive proof in general–is apropos of nothing.
Viper, put the TV Movie after an NFL playoff game and you’ll get the ratings. I guarantee it. Advertisers definitely would think it. So it’s a positive. DVD sales on it are huge. It sold 500,000 copies rather quickly, then slowly (weekly) sold thousands every week since. Then on at least 3 occasions that I can recall it sold over 35,000 copies after. It slowly passed 1M copies sold (which makes it a huge hit in TV sales) and kept going. It still hasn’t slowed down.
TV series are lucky to sell 200,000 copies let alone cross the 1M mark. It’s a true statement of popularity.
Today that means it’s likely to pull good numbers for something like a TV movie. A series? Who knows. It may pull a 2.5 on average (or about like CHUCK) which isn’t good for a FOX show, but a movie is a one time thing, properly placed it could get a good result. Make another movie for the next year, and you may have created a larger possible fanbase for a return of the show. I’m not saying the show is viable, just a TV movie.
I’m not saying it’s possible either. The question I was asked was “Would FOX be interested,” the answer is yes under the right circumstances definitely.
@RSH, you state:
.
“And ALL the estimates of Firefly DVD sales indicate that it has sold at least half a million and probably much more AND that it continues to sell well, seven years after being on the air. You simply can’t dismiss that just because you don’t have precise sales figures. It’s ridiculous.”
The only estimate I’ve seen said 41,000 in one week. Again, you post numbers without sources. I don’t care if your numbers are estimates or hard sales figures, I simply want to know your source before I’ll believe you. I belive Amazon, because Amazon has the Firefly complete series fairly high on their top selling TV series list. I’d believe you if you cited Amazon. But I don’t believe half a million copies just because you say “ALL the estimates.” Show me your estimates. Until then, I’ll believe Amazon’s ranks, which are good indeed
And Nick C, I think I’m seeing how some of this debate may be a result of misinterpretations and unclear statements. You state regarding interest in reviving Firefly: “under the right circumstances, definitely.” The funny thing about your statement is that it can be interpreted several ways: the common use of the word “definitely” is to mean certain, or indisputable. “Definitely” can have no qualifiers in that sense, so “under the right circumstances” totally negates the word “definitely. If you had written, “under the right cirmstances, it’s possible,” or even “under the right circumstances, yes,” then I’d be more likely to take your writing seriously. However, “definite” can also mean a distinct set of limits. So what you could have meant was that there are certain, definite circumstances under which FOX would be interested in a Firefly TV Movie. Taking the latter meaning under consideration, then I see your point. In theory, with the stars aligned just right, some people might give Firefly some serious thought.
Hi Nick, so my question then becomes is Fox really interrested and how will the problems be addressed? Is Fox or NBC willing to pay to reassemble the cast, crew and writer’s, rebuild the props and sets and what about the 2 dead characters?
Who are your mystery inside contacts that reveal this stuff to you and you alone? Are you so sure that this scheme will make money that you would invest your own?
If is a mighty big word. If it is scheduled after an NFL game. If the advertisers will go for it. If the cast, crew, writers etc can be lined up. If a network comes up with the cash to pay for all this. If the president doesn’t decide to announce yet another industry takeover and preempts the premere. If, if, if.
Will the resulting movie match the expectations of the cadre of hard corp fans? You know the ones that get irate when a buckle is unfastened in one scene then seconds later is buckled in the next. And would enough new viewers take the time and effort to get to know the story and characters? No one can answer that, it’s anyone’s guess. But based on the last outing the answer was a resounding no. See my earlier comment about expecting different results from the same actions.
Even if there are as you say tons of dvd sets flying off the shelves(and I have no reason to doubt your word) that doesn’t mean there is enough general interest(I refer to nonWhedonite fanatics) to justify such an enormous outlay. Fox isn’t really hurting for scripted shows with ratings draw, but NBC is in deep trouble. Why would either of them bet on a horse that has already broken two legs and just hope it doesn’t break another. Especially one that you yourself admit will need special scheduling help to be even remotely successful? The series failed,(broken leg 1) the movie failed(broken leg 2). Dvd sales may make up some of the production cost shortfall but it still looks like a sucker bet to me. And just between us, if a movie or show needs special kid glove handling to survive, does it really deserve to?
It’s been fun speculating about it however. Take care.
viper shouldnt you be guarding a bridge or something?
Come on chet is that the best you can do?
You can always tell when someone is down for the count and totally defeated, they resort to your tactics. Try to be a little more original next time huh?
i think thats the most telling thing of all
you view this as a battle and i am to be defeated
Not at all chet. Don’t flatter yourself. I view this as a discussion, a disagreement. Most of the posters have at least tried to present reasoned points to support their position. You on the other hand have twice resorted to personal insults(the same one by the way)instead of attempting to refute the points that I presented. I therefore now view you as an impotent, clueless, mentally and emotionally deficient pest. Unless you really are a child, in which case your babysitter needs to supervise you better. Run along now sonny, its past your nap time. Don’t forget your blankie.
Wow, I have never seen someone who is so busy spend so much time giving negative feedback to a speculation of something that will probably not happen.
clutz, are you trying to teach me English? I was correct in my wording, under the right circumstances it is a DEFINITE yes.
viper, would I put my money into that project? Sure. FOX promises after the NFC Championship game (immediately after) I’d be all over it. I’d dump up to $8M into it without blinking. Figure FOX will pay $4.5M to $6M, and make the rest up by selling 2nd syndication rights to SCI-FI (another $1M or so) and the final returns on DVD. It’s a safe investment.
Clutz: Give it up. You keep demanding precise figures, ignoring the fact that THERE ARE NO PRECISE FIGURES. Not for TV, not for movies, not for DVDs, not for music CDs. NONE. So you go with the estimates LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE DOES IN THE WORLD.
My sources WERE cited in my posts. USA Today and The Numbers. Learn to read. Your complaint about The Numbers was noted and dismissed as being sour grapes that you didn’t have any better figures to discredit them with, so you came up with their disclaimer that it was an estimate only – which everybody with a brain – except you, apparently – already knows.
Viper: Who says the show has to deal with the time period after the Serenity movie. You could do TV movies and an entire series set BEFORE the Serenity movie. There’s nothing in the canon that says Serenity happens five minutes after the last aired episode of Firefly. So that whole point is totally moot.
Scheduling conflicts? EVERY MOVIE has scheduling conflicts. EVERY MOVIE has multiple people whose schedules have to coincide. What part of that don’t you get? You think the Ocean’s movies were easy to schedule?
This is more ruminant evacuation. Some haters don’t like Firefly, so they have to make up reasons why it’s “impossible” to do a Firefly TV movie. It’s ridiculous.
Nobody said there weren’t a lot of ifs involved, JUST LIKE VERY OTHER PROJECT. What part of that don’t you people get? It’s amazing to me that ANY movie or TV show gets made. This nonsense about stupid problems that might occur – and DO occur on EVERY project – is just that: nonsense. It’s completely irrelevant to the issue of whether Firefly could conceivably do better than it did the first time around.
The fact is: nobody knows! But the evidence from the DVD sales is that it could have done better had it stayed around instead of being canceled. And that evidence is perfectly adequate to suggest that a rebooted version could do well today, especially if the ground were laid for a return by one or more properly promoted and properly scheduled TV movies.
However, as Nick points out, a TV movie had better be properly promoted and properly scheduled, or it might not do any better than any other TV movie outside of the Whedon fans. How hard is that to comprehend?
Thanks for the Serenity spoiler in the post. Really appreciate it.
The show was better written than the movie. The movie had great effects though.
They killed Wash and Wash wasn’t even funny in the movie. He was hillarious in the show. Didn’t Book die as well?
How can they make something even nearly as good as this brilliant original series? I have faith that Joss can do it but HOW?
2 votes here for giving it a shot anyway.
Mr. Whedon, please take your time with writing the dialogue.
I’m a brand new fan (within the past month). I think the reason people won’t “let go”, is because the fan base is continually growing. I, for one, would LOVE to see this show brought back.
@RSH, my beef was not with you to begin with. It’s not with evidence of DVD sales either. I honestly don’t care if estimates are there or not – like I said, I believe the DVD’s are selling well due to their status in Amazon rankings.
My beef is more general- words like “definitely” and “without a doubt” and “evidence” and “data” and “proof” are bandided about when “according to estimates” and “possibly” and “worth considering” would be more accurate.
I have seen solid “evidence” that a Jericho feature film is in the works. As a Jericho nut, nothing would make me happier. But I’ll believe the “evidence” when I see the movie trailer. Same situation here. Sure, it’s possible that these movies may one day exist, but I’ll believe it when I see it.
the discussion is becoming more and more futile
Matt,
Bit harsh criticising a spoiler. The film is 4 years old!
I started watching Firefly for the first time 2 days ago. I’m on EP4 and i’m freaking loving it, the show is just brilliant!
Someone should create a petition to revive it!
I should have just let this post die and fade in to oblivion, but some stupid fanboy had to drag me into their ridiculous argument by posting a personal attack.
AO, that comment posted on June 3rd, 2009 at 5:15 am shows that you can’t read correctly, you’re a hypocrite and that you aren’t too bright either. All I said was I curious about how many Firefly dvds have been sold and that there was no proof available(publicly). I never stated that it didn’t sell well or the lack of available numbers was proof that it didn’t.
You talk about how “DVD sales numbers ARE. NOT. RELEASED.” and that the absence of unavailable DVD numbers are not proof of something. You previously suggested “How about we turn the question around and ask for “proof” that it doesn’t sell well?” For someone to prove that it doesn’t sell well they would would need to see DVD sales numbers and we all know that “DVD sales numbers ARE. NOT. RELEASED.” So you can’t have it both ways. You can just read what you wrote in that comment and that is almost the perfect argument against yourself/your suggestion.
So if the DVD sales numbers aren’t available, how could the fans constantly state the Firefly DVDs sell so well? Is it safe for people to assume that they know Firefly DVD sales are good because:
1. The show is so awsome they just know.
2. Every Firefly fan is in the business or works at FOX.
3. Hey it’s Joss. How could it not be selling zillons of copies.
4. Every Firefly fan spends a ridiculous amount of money on a subscription to Soundscan just to follow Firefly DVD sales.
5. Dude you know he created Buffy right?
6. They believe every little scrap of information posted online as long as it’s something positive about Firefly.
7. Dude you know he created Angel too right?
8. They believe everyone that says that they are in the business or knows someone in the business as long as it’s something positive about Firefly.
So which one is it? Probably a little bit of 6&8.
Another thing about the prove that it doesn’t sell well BS. That’s what some loser fanboy comes up with when they have no real point to argue with. Everyone that makes a statement as fact needs to be able to back it up if they want to be taken seriously. You mean to tell me that because you happen to be a fanboy of the show it some how justifies the opposite? So in your little fantasy world does this apply to every fanboy and every show or just you and this show? It’s really sad how delusional some people are.
I have no problem with Firefly or it’s fans. I do have a problem with delusional fanboys in general. They make regular fans look bad.
Clutz: “Sure, it’s possible that these movies may one day exist, but I’ll believe it when I see it.”
Since the original post never said anything about certainty – and I’m fairly sure none of my posts did, since I’m not someone who believes in certainty – except for the concept that made for TV movies then released on DVDs would sell well – which I think is more than likely given the existing DVD sales of Firefly – I don’t really see any place where massive skepticism is warranted.
Nick’s entire post was hypothetical – IF you pitched a Firefly TV movie project to execs at Fox and IF it was done right, it would likely pull a 3.0 and IF sold on DVD would likely sell well.
Nothing terribly certain about any of that, except for those who wanted to make it so, so they could denounce the whole thing and thus attempt to appear better informed than Nick. It was the nay-sayers who came up with a whole bunch of “certainties”, claiming the Firefly DVD sales were unproven, the actors couldn’t be gotten together, nobody but a handful of Whedon fans liked it and no one else ever would, yada, yada.
Bottom line: I have to conclude that a bunch of people simply wanted to step on Nick C’s toes. I’ve had my disagreements with Nick before, but when he’s right – or at least reasonably speculating – he’s right. I don’t carry over my disagreements with people from discussion to discussion, unless I’ve determined that they’re always wrong because they’re in the business of being wrong (like Bill Kristol, for instance.)
I’m a new viewer of Firefly; it is one of the best Sci-Fi shows I’ve seen and there have been many.
They could easily bring back a popular character (Wash & Book) even though they were killed off.
Just take a look at how they resurrected Paul McGillon on Stargate Atlantis, in fact that’s how I found Firefly, I was reading about how he was killed off and replaced by Jewel Staite and there was a mention of Firefly and the rest is history…
Please bring back this show or a direct to DVD version… The following is there and people are ready to buy the DVD’s. I just purchased the series and movie on Blue Ray!
I look at some of the crap on TV and wonder why someone isn’t striving to bring a show of this caliber back to the screen.
Viper: Lol…. quite funny. “…webflick…” and “…fanfilm…” it isn’t. Not laughing at you, just your choice of words to describe the film that we have currently in the works. No kidding, as a matter of fact I play a Captain in the film and will be wrapping up my scenes today: some green screen work this afternoon.
We’ve got a professionally written script, a professionally written score, loads of talented and experienced actors, whatever the latest doo-hickey bing-bong HD cameras folks are shootin’ with now-a-days… I think it’s called a RED or something ;^) etc etc. YouTube here we DON’T come.
Be sure to snag a DVD when it comes out. You may like it!
Altorro Prince Black
http://browncoatsmovie.com/
Ugh, I still hadn’t seen “Serenity” yet. Now I know who dies. If you have to mention it at all, at least don’t say which one. x(
i heard about firefly briefly a long time ago, maybe saw a commercial or something, never got to see it when it aired. just recently stumbled upon it on hulu. watched the 1st episode, followed by the rest of the series in a 4 day span. sucked me in, great mix of everything. almost depressing that i can’t watch anymore. haven’t watched the movie yet, but looking forward to it. hands down one of the best shows, if not the best show i’ve ever seen. i never post comments… to anything, but somehow felt compelled to post one here.
I sadly had no idea that this show even existed until I stumbled upon it on Hulu 3 days ago. After watching the first episode I was completely hooked. This show is truly amazing, great actors/actresses, fantastic plots and dialog, and awesome special effects. The Serenity’s captain is best described as Han Solo mixed with Doc Holliday, and for my money, it just doesn’t get any better than that. I just keep wondering how I missed this when it was tv, maybe it was bad advertising I don’t know. But its a damn shame that it gotten taken off the air way before its time and I would love to see this show come back. 2 thumbs way up for “Firefly” and a hearty “Here Here” to bring this masterpiece of television back to the screen.