In a good article, Advertising Age examines the current competing philosophies of CBS and NBC*.
Here’s a quick summary of their positions:
CBS: Has had relative success with its broadcast network, and particular success with its scripted shows. No advertising supported cable networks (only Showtime). Sees the future in scripted broadcast programming.
NBC: Broadcast network doing poorly, and scripted shows doing particularly poorly. A strong stable of advertising supported cable networks (USA, Bravo, SciFi, Telemundo). Sees the future in a portfolio of offerings, with broadcast scripted programming de-emphasized.
Looking at it that way, their competing views of the future make complete sense.
The article also had advertising numbers that are a bit different from what we’ve seen before:
By two traditional measures, CBS has edged out its rival. It’s no secret that NBC has seen ratings drop in recent years, while CBS broadened in several categories in the just-finished season. Ad revenue has increased or ebbed accordingly. In 2004, the NBC network captured more than $6.96 billion, while CBS took in about $6.12 billion, according to TNS Media Intelligence. In 2008, the positions have reversed: CBS captured about $6.3 billion, while NBC took in about $5.4 billion.
Although it does fall into the “CBS up the most this season” trap without mentioning they were down the most the previous year, and so their two season performance isn’t as special.
Update edits: Added a summary, the photo and modified the post title.
It almost seems like NBC has started to like being fourth. Or at least they’ve settled into that identity.
Jokes about being last make up like 70% of Conan’s material.
I am watching or plan to watch a few shows on NBC this summer, however, during the regular broadcast season, I watch more shows on CBS than on any other network, including NBC. Oddly, just two years ago, I didn’t watch one single show on CBS.
Thats alot of billions.
NBC: Americas got talent.
Things will only get worse for NBC. They can be hopeful all they want, I highly doubt people will give-up their Dramas for the same old Leno.
Even if Leno is good putting all the network’s hope on 1 guy, 1 shows is just not smart. What happens if the show flops? What happens if Leno gets sick again?
Not to mention this Leno-move is cutting down on dramas in NBC. Can’t believe how they royally screwed Kings.
Adam, NBC didn’t screw kings. That show had embarrassing ratings, even by NBC standards.
I guess I’ll never understand the general viewing public. Most of my favorite shows actually air on NBC (Chuck, 30 Rock, The Office). The only main show I watch on CBS is HIMYM. I’ll also check out Big Bang Theory occasionally, but not every week.
I still can’t belive that a great network with a lot of quality programming like USA is under the NBCU umbrella. They just don’t fit the whole NBC – we make bad decisions philosophy.
mike, Adam is talking about how they were originally going to put Kings in the Thursday at 10 timeslot, but they had no faith in it, so they shoved it to Sunday where it didn’t stand a chance.
The idea that Kings would have done well starting on Thursday night (vs. Sunday night where it cratered) is silly. The show was doomed no matter where it started. And it wasn’t the lack of promotion. Not enough people liked it.
Kings wasnt promoted at the super bowel for pity sake and they did 0 promotion on its move to summer. But it seems to me that outside of CBS the ABC and FOX have a good reality base to promote scripted TV(American Idol and Dancing with the Stars) NBC needs to move Americas Got Talent in the Fall to have a good base to work their Scripted shows.
I’ve really thought about this for a long time.
I don’t think NBC’s woes have to do with show placement, promotion, or lack of common sense. It has to do with “niche” programming that appeals to one particular audience instead of the mainstream.
Shows like “Heroes” and “Chuck” really only appeal to an up-to-30 male audience. The same goes for their single-camera, “smart” comedy lineup that really only finds its way amongst an upper-class demographic that is too gun-ho on DVR and online viewership anyways.
This is why other shows like “The Biggest Loser” and “Law and Order: SVU” consistently outperform NBC’s apparent big guns. Both have more mainstream audiences and stick to regular formulas. Many Americans may tune out at some point, but these shows are stable rocks that appeal to a wide group of people.
That explains why a show like “Heroes” can do really well in advertising (there are a lot of products that especially cater to this sub-30 “video gamer” male audience), but won’t dazzle in ratings.
This philosophy will keep NBC in fourth place.
On the other hand, CBS has stuck to this safe, mainstream mentality for years and it has worked, for the most part. So, what? They’ll never make the cover of Entertainment Weekly or come up with something innovative or worth an Emmy, but their ratings and general revenue will do well.
Shows like “The Mentalist” and “NCIS” stick to a procedural format that seems to appeal to every audience, young and old. We can all agree that CBS has the oldest audience in primetime television, but their 18-49 audience isn’t THAT bad, especially when you consider they beat the majority of networks in average 18-49 viewership this past year anyway.
Both are winning formulas in their own right, but unless NBC likes the sound of 4th place, I’m sure their formula will change very soon.
Although NBC’s primetime ratings have been poor, they have had some great performers outside primetime. The Today Show has been #1 for over 700 consecutive weeks (15 years), their Nightly News is consistently #1, Meet the Press has been the #1 Sunday political show for 8 years (although ABC has gained a lot of ground since David Gregory took over), and they consistently won Late Night while Leno was host (and are still easily winning the younger demos).
not only that Badlands, they still have the NFL and the Olympics. Two entities that delivers time and time again. NBC should thank Dick Ebersol and Ken Schanzer for this. NBC will do what it takes to keep those properties.
remember CBS was in this position back in 1994 when they lost the NFL, major league baseball and the NBA within 3 years. their programming stuck up the joint and finished third.
i love nbc and i do think that the writers strike caused them to lose ratings in their #1 show heroes peope just gave up after niki and elle was taken off i still watch but i rather those 2 haracters back in. i hope people watch redemption this fall the new volume of heroes
Shows like “Heroes” and “Chuck” really only appeal to an up-to-30 male audience.
Is that why Chuck skews older than a lot of NBC shows? Because only people under 30 like it?
Well I’m 42 going on 22 so I guess that fits since I like Chuck.
I really dont see NBC in that much trouble, sure they rank fourth right now, I remember not long ago they were #1 and CBS was barely even alive. Its all cyclical and will swing back around. Right now CBS leads with stalwart favorites, not much flash and bang, they ended the Unit so, safe drama for the elder diaper set. NBC is or has experimented and taken risks. The fact no one watches must sting but they have diversified, USA has 2 nights going good right now with L&OCI/IPS and BURN/PAINS so they are providing that scripted content and expanding they’re overall reach something CBS is doing with showtime. Now in time the Network brand NBC maybe a mere parent figure, the broadcast net faded, to an actual cable carrier that’s pumping the content but isn’t that the same thing sort of.
burrrrn!!
sorry I just had to say that, seeing as julia didn’t
I don’t watch NBC at all. I used to watch Heroes but it doesn’t interest me anymore. I began to watch Kings recently but I guess since it’s gone, I’m not watching NBC anymore.. Their promotion of that show was horrible. Only way I found out about it was through a friend. I don’t watch CBS either. Sadly, I’ll stick with the cable TV. Most interesting or original programming die on the big networks.
CBS has done a brilliant job delivering cookie-cutter procedurals to the low attention span, low IQ masses.
Aside from 30 Rock and Office, NBC has nothing that could possibly interest anybody.
NBC is dead to me. None of their shows appeal to me at all. Long live CBS!
It’s surprising to me that anyone not employed by a network or whose breadwinner is can actually make the statement, ” I love CBS,” or ” hate ABC,” etc, and really mean it. If true, it shows the advertising mantra stating that sponsors go by cachet and reputation as well as just numbers may have some weight behind it. I think empirically a person over 60 who watches CBS and their metamucil and Depends ads, and doesn’t like to monkey with the remote, suddenly getting hit with a ” Hot girls in the swinging singles apartment complex … watch while the hunk-in-residence fireman loses his towel … a gay pedophile moves into 3A … ” etc may get p.o.ed enough to hold it against the Tiffany Network. That’s why NCIS with the ” good girl ” with blacl lipstick and a tatoo on her ankle ( Pshaw! ) is pushing the envelope for them, and it seems to be working on USA as well.
Perhaps I was wrong about that statistic, but my main point was:
Heroes and Chuck have had mediocre ratings because they appeal to niche audiences versus mainstream America.
Ironically, the only show I like on broadcast is 30 Rock. (I’m more of a cable guy, especially since True Blood came along.)
Does Chuck really have “mediocre” ratings? I recall it was well above the “Return” line in the “Return/Cancel” index. and the only reason there was any debate as to its return was because of NBC’s decision to remove five hours per week of scripted content.
NBC will be more like the CW next season, I bet you.
Chuck’s ratings were above 2.0 and under normal circumstances it would have easily gotten a green light on any other network, especially the CW even without the WB ownership. The Jay Leno excuse is rather harsh and getting old, his show was created to that his fans would stay with NBC, and not roll on over to FOX or ABC. I think Leno agreeing to stay was a bad choice and should have moved to another network. Now on the otherside NBC made out great, they get a cheap variety/talk show run by a guy who led late night comedy for almost 20 years. It doesn’t have to win every night to be succesful, heck it doesn’t really have to win at all. Running a network on a performance per dollor technique is how the cable companies got to where they are. The cheaper a show is compared to the revenue it brings in means more money for newer projects. Signing shows for shorter runs means no more re-runs, heck NBC could reair primetime shows during the daytime to catch more viewer like USA. It was the continuious running of Burn Notice that got me to catch the show in the first place. The same could work for NBC scripted shows like Chuck and Heroes.
NBC sold more than a billion less in advertising than CBS did. NBC are trying to gain that share back. Dont forget the Superbowl and Olympics paid most of their earnings last year. This year they only have the former to lend a hand, so they need to make adjustments. Shorter seasons and less reruns give them that oportunity.
Chuck’s numbers were not that great they were borderline. While CW would be happy with those numbers all the other networks would have considered throwning the show in the vault of canceled content.
There was a time when NBC was #1 and Fox was #4 it’s amazing how quick networks change position. While it’s nice NBC’s cable networks have done well lets be realistic cable is a fraction of a pie that’s dominated by the broadcast network. That’s why you see significant increases in cable revenues but yet y/y declines in overall revenue. I think bad management has been the problem at NBC over the years however the board has elected to stay with Jeff Zucker.
Doesn’t anyone think that the CW will overtake NBC in total viewing? I personally believe so.
Looks like 1979 again, with influence from cable.
Someone who posts, definitely need to check your medication dosages today.
Lmao bill anyway this is my list of shows I watch on CBS and NBC. CBS. = tbbt always watch that some times watch himym and sometimes also roe and sometimes 2 hm I also watch survivor harpers island and I sawthe episode of I get that a lot. On NBC I watch iacgmooh biggest loser. My favorite show CHUCK (:(:(:(: sometmes office 30 rock sometimes sometimes earl well not anymore cause canceled America got talent howie do it well not anymore cause cancelled sometimes also I watch on NBC law and order sometimes I also sometmees watch dateline and smetimes watch listner And merlin and going
To checkout the philabtrophist LOL lolnlolnloln can’t spell for my ownlife anyway I watch a lot of shows on Cw. MTV nick at night tbs cw fox NBC CBS and abc I’m obaesased with tv especially at night. My favorite network is probLy fox out
Of all of the. N tv.
Bill Gorman,
You gotta realize that the CW is increasing in viewership slowly, while NBC is decreasing each year in viewership slowly. Sooner or later they will tie and CW will probably beat them ahead.
Let’s see, NBC had an 18-49 demo of 1.5 on Monday, while CW had an 18-49 demo of 0.3. I don’t think they will ever meet, let alone CW overtaking NBC.
Someone who posts – that’s true. It’s also true that the number of HD DVD users this year is higher than it was three years ago, while DVD is on the way down, therefore, ergo, HD DVD will eventually overtake DVD.
(Actually, as someone who liked HD DVD, I wish that was true, but that’s another story for a different forum.)
At least NBC still plans to broadcast on Sundays.
But is anyone watching NBC on Sunday? NO.
Jeez, I’d say the CW has no chance, but yet NBC really isn’t that too far ahead over the CW. But they won’t overtake them.
CW probably will air sports programming in the future, wait and see.
CW will never be able to pony up the money for football, and no other sport will bring in enough ratings for an extended period of time. (Basketball is only big during the last couple of playoff rounds, if even then.) But, besides that, I just had a conversation with a network liason who was explaining Disney moving most sports to ESPN and off of ABC. We’re in a very different climate today than 10 or 20 years ago. CW will not be able to become the next Fox just by adding football. For one, research has shown that any sports audience is merely rented. They do not translate into viewers for other shows that are promoted during the games.
The CW cannot add sports, because:
1. Most of their audience who are young teen ‘feminine’ females, most of these girls probably don’t even know how the quarterback of their hometown professional football team is.
2. Most major professional sports leagues already have their own networks: NHL – NBC, NBA – ABC, NFL – CBS/NBC/FOX, MLB – FOX, and NASCAR – FOX. College sports are mostly in CBS, ABC, and FOX for the final Bowl games. The only thing that the CW can pick up is MLS soccer (if they want to get that route). Then if they do, who watches soccer in America?
3. The vast majority of people who watch sports, just watch TV just for the sports, hardly any of them will ever gravitate to the network just for the sport. FOX adding NFL in 1993, was just a miracle, but it usually doesn’t work that way.
I meant to say ‘who’, not ‘how’ on #1.
What I find interesting is that NBC lost $1.5 billion in ad revenue from 5 years ago compared to CBS’s being virtually at par with what it earned back then, even though NBC branched itself out. NBC’s belief that having a portfolio of cable networks to broaden their reach so as to accrue more untold wealth doesn’t seem to be working, otherwise they’d be $1.5 billion ahead, and that’s something they don’t seem to get. I think they have forgotten that they’re first and foremost a broadcast network and that broadcast networks make more money than cable networks for one simple reason: a lot of what they air is first-run programming and a good deal of it in primetime is comprised of original scripted shows, not repeats. So what will usually get the bigger audience? Original scripted programming, of course, as well as most of the reality shows. Even broadcast network repeats will often outperform any cable repeat. Add to that that broadcast networks can command higher ad fees than cable networks and it’s all a no-brainer. It also helps that the broadcast networks are accessible to everyone, while cable networks are dependent on cable providers offering them to their subscribers, so their viewership levels will be much lower for most of them. So, of course, simple basic math tells you that broadcast networks will make more money. As Les Moonves has said, the broadcast model isn’t broke. So why is it so broke at NBC? Jeff Zucker’s failure to understand the broadcast model is what has led NBC down the slippery ratings slope. In fact, Zucker emerged from NBC’s daytime, having been the producer of The Today Show throughout the 1990s. I think he’s still locked into a daytime mentality with respect to primetime, because how else can one explain scheduling Leno every night at 10 pm? Not to mention that it’s no coincidence that NBC has seen a steady slide in its ratings every season since Zucker took over primetime, while ABC, CBS and FOX have had their little ups and downs. A normal broadcast network will have ups and downs over the course of a decade, not straight downs. Straight downs is only a testament to how badly run the network has been without a clear broadcasting vision. But in tepid defence of the Leno move, if anything will make that show work for NBC, it’ll be viewers in the Midwest. Why? Because his show will be on at 9, not 10, and it would seem that they would be more receptive to watching it at that hour than East and West Coast viewers would at 10. It’s somthing to note when the numbers roll out in the fall.
NBC== NO BODY CARES
CBS== COURTS BARACKS STUPIDITY
ABC–ALWAYS BARACKS CHANNEL
FOX ROX—-FOX ROX—-FOX ROX—-FOX ROX