In what is an obvious “Ya think?” moment, Michael Green the creator of the show admits that the ratings killed Kings and once it got moved to Saturday it was already dead. Although his note about the cost of the show being lowered to something comparable to other dramas by the NY state tax credit is interesting.
– To those who thought Saturday nights was a terrible time slot, you are correct. That move was the first step of cancellation. Once that decision was made, no attempts would be made to “save” or promote the show in any way. It was already over then.
– The reasons for its cancellation were nothing more than the low ratings.
– Some have speculated that the cost of the show was prohibitive. While it is true that the episode budget was high for a first season show, that number was reduced by the outstanding aggregate 30% tax benefit New York provided (which we all hope will remain in effect), thus bringing the cost down to rates comparable to other prime time dramas. And, of course, plans were already made to bring the costs down to whatever number the studio required of us in the future.
much more where that came from at Court Historian.
I’ve said what I had to say about this already lol Thanks NBC!
Saying the same thing I said after I learned Burn Notice and Royal Pains were renewed. Uhhh DUHHHHHHH. The show was already axed when it got moved to saturdays in April and like Crusoe and Kidnapped, got the formal axe shortly after. Maybe NBC will have better luck with its 2 “ER replacements” Mercy and Trauma next year. It was smart to move up the one that was meant for midseason because if one show bombs then the other one can atleast get a full season.
Everyone knew that. What is scary is that looks like they never stop, and analyze what made the show DOA in the 1st place. So they don’t repeat the same mistakes until they are out of a career.
S, you knew that, I knew that, but for a show that achieved some of the lowest demo ratings ever for new scripted episodes on NBC, plenty of people didn’t “know” it until far too late.
What would interest me is… What is the typical cost of a primtime drama?
Gusar, for broadcast primetime dramas my understanding is that $2-3 million / hour is typical today.
Yeah, I don’t see how a tax break could bring the cost of a 4 million dollar show down to the cost of an average drama.
The referenced source has this blurb:
“It was only when time came to market the show that a decision was made not to promote the show as a biblically inspired tale. Fear of reprisal from the religious audience was the described cause. Something NBC has had bad experiences with before. As such, any references to ‘King David’ were actively avoided”
That’s not the whole f*%#ing story on that f*%#ing matter, not even f*%#ing close. The f*%#ing production draft of the f*%#ing pilot was so loaded with f-bombs that there was no f*%#ing way this could be marketed to evangelicals, etc. without the network being beat to f*%#ing death by them with the original f*%#ing script. Green can cite concern about problems with religious groups, but the truth is that his sh!tty writing was the reason why there would have been any f*%#ing problems in the first place.
Literally, the first f*%#ing line of dialogue in this f*%#ing POS’s pilot drops an f-bomb.
Does my “f*%#ing,” “sh!tty,” and “POS” commentary appear unnecessary? Now, imagine putting it in a network television script draft.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/3236354/Script_Kings_1×01_-_Goliath
I disagree with Michael Green about one thing. The show was doomed when it was moved to Sunday. Granted, Sundays can be good to some broadcasts, but unless your network starts with a “C” or an “A”, you are screwed in HHs.
Kings didn’t cost as much as an ‘average’ drama, but closer to that of a top tier budgetwise drama like Pushings Daises, or Lost.
I believe sure the whole 13 episode order, including the pilot (which is typically considerably more expensive than your average episode), came out at something like $60 million–which may not make it the costliest show ever, but certainly costlier than most.
Actually, I think NBC’s Trauma might possibly be the most expensive big 4 network hour long ever at $5 million per episode
Oh, and Harold? Watch your f*%king mouth! There are virgin eyes that come to this site. G*dd*mn, were you raised in a m**herf**king barn?! Have some tact.
Nice to hear from Michael Green and I hope he does not completely give up on Kings in some capacity. How about a cable run or have a BBC type network take the show over. Even CBC in Canada?
I know the local NBC station was running promos for the show a week before Christmas.
One thing would have been some reference if this was some parallel universe or the future or even another planet. Too vague. I never got an answer on that.
I might as well ask this, what was a better one year show? “Kings” or the American version is “Life On Mars”? David Shepard or Sam Tyler? And finally, King Silas or Gene Hunt (both guys were pretty much the same). Thanks for my indulgence…
Thank you Mr. Green for your vision of “Kings”, hope it is not the end completely. If not movies, how about books?
This show was actually dead the moment the first frame was taped – “Kings” was horrendous, and viewers seem to agree!
William – Trust me, the CBC does NOT want this garbage….Canadian viewers would NEVER go for a show like “Kings”.
I’d like to differ with creator Michael Green–the show wasn’t destined for cancellation when it was scheduled for Saturday. I’d say it was destined for cancellation the second NBC agreed to air it.
@Bill
Bill out of the $2m-$3m per hour do you have any idea of the further breakdowns?
i.e. How much does a writer earn an hour, how much a lead actor, how much a ‘named’ supporting actor, how much the crew, how much the licence? fee. (I realise these numbers can vary wildly but I’d be interested to get some kind of ‘feel’ for it and perhaps the difference in a Network Show and a Cable Show).
You used to hear stories of lead actors for a hit show making $1m per episode (Friends, Frazier) but not so much now….But if you look at a show like The Closer with a very high Named Actor (8) count as against Burn Notice with only 4 main actors surely this would affect the income per actor?
Also how much would a show expect to recoup in ad spend in it’s first showing?
Is there a viewer numbers to ad income formula that can be used as a rule of thumb?
Thanks in advance for what must be a load of annoying questions.
Craig, you’re questions aren’t annoying except in that the data, even in terms of aggregate averages isn’t easily available. We hear the ~$3 millionish number thrown around for primetime hour long dramas, but as a show gains hit status, not just the stars but the writers and producers renegotiate their contracts. The main reason you heard about in cases like Seinfeld and Friends is because as a negotiation strategy the actors talked of holding out.
That sort of thing still happens, though on a smaller scale (think Meloni and Hargitay on Law & Order: SVU) but there is no doubt at all that everyone involved with Grey’s Anatomy is making more than what they signed on for in the first season.
Cable shows in general are less expensive and from what I gather by from 1/3-1/2 or more of the average broadcast show. Though you can figure that the most recent season of The Closer is probably much more expensive on a per episode basis than the first season of Dark Blue.
On the broadcast side it’s pretty easy to calculate a minimum 18-49 viewership for hour long dramas — it’s one of the reason the Renew/Cancel index works so much better for hour long dramas than 30 minute sitcoms.
On the cable side its too hard to us to do anything formulaic with the data access we have. It surely varies network by network and likely even show by show.
While the ad revenue for cable shows even on a CPM basis is much less (~50% of broadcast primetime) there are different cost structures, carriage fees paid to the networks (from people’s monthly cable bills) and the networks can show episodes multiple times per week.
Production Culture by Caldwell is probably the smartest book I have seen on this, and one of the most discouraging for folks interested in industry processes. If you want a quick summary of the argument (its a pretty detailed book, about 340 pages small print) is this: the whole industrial system fabricates, echos and distorts information to attempt to self narrate and preclude meaningful external analysis. The system has become so addicted on its own brand of home brewed cultural and economic theory that it is its own unique universe. This will only get worse as it co-mingles with the interwebz which are even equally esoteric, mystical and largely irrational.
In terms of finance stuff, if you really use google heavily you can find out a good deal about slate film finance and its collapse earlier this year.
Don’t we all love reading the trades trying to figure out what is happening with the books of a massive, subsidized industry?
@Robert
Thanks for that….I appreciate that as a show becomes a ‘hit’ contracts get renewed and renegotiated, it’s when you hear the stories about hold outs that you start to wonder what goes on behind the scenes (The CSI/Jorga Fox firing and Lost holdouts spring to mind).
It seems to me (in my ignorant bliss) that a 1 hour show perhaps costs $2m-$3m initially when launched and recoups most if not all it’s costs from ad revenue (so all overseas sales and DVD income becomes incremental straight to the bottom line), however if the show is a reasonable hit the costs could quite quickly bump to $4m-$5m and at this point I wonder how much the initial ad revenue covers (so overseas sales and DVD now becomes critical). Of course if the show isn’t a hit it gets dumped fairly quickly.
In some ways the business seems to be almost Venture Capital in it’s structure, we can afford to fund 5 misses as 1 hit pays for it all (of course this doesn’t apply to NBC who seem to be taking the 20 misses for 1 hit formula).
@Dan
Thanks I’ll try to pick a copy of that up…..
I’ve always made a rough rule of thumb calculation that any studio movies budget figure is three times the actual costs, but they then add on the marketing and other areas where they have vertically integrated business and add that cost to the budget.
I remember reading recently a very funny (I can’t find it right now so can’t refer to it) diatribe from a showrunner where his office was getting sized up by other producers as it was a given his show was dead, his office was based in the studio and was being billed back to the show at something like $50k per month IIRC. I remember reading a few years back that in a court case a studio had claimed Forrest Gump had not made money and I rolled around laughing that a movie with revenues of over $500m had lost money. The concept of a studio trying to claim this in court reminded me of the Tobacco 7 CEO’s saying cigarettes weren’t addictive in front of the Senate Hearing.
I suppose the movie/tv business could be summed up by the phrase….so much money…..so many crooks?
I think that diatribe was from Josh Friedman on the cancellation of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles.
To be honest, the show was dead once it was moved to Sunday. Getting the plum Thursday ER spot yanked from them and moved to the Sunday 8pm wasteland was a sure sign NBC didn’t think the show would attract an audience, and indeed it didn’t. Having to pay through the nose for the Wells’ replacement show really suggested NBC thought Kings would fail big time. Given the cost of the sure to be no-rated Southland second season, Kings is approaching, what, a $100 million disaster?
It’s a shame too, with Dollhouse’s miraculous renewal, Kings is the show I’m most disappointed to see go from the 08/09 season. In a “just” world, Showtime would have Kings and Tudors would be dead.
Okay, I get the words on “Kings”. It just needed another home I guess. Another show I liked, Life On Mars, had to cost some too. They had better numbers than Kings but was quickly cancelled too. Add that I am sure they had to pay for all those 70’s songs they played. Add a name cast compared to the releative unknowns of Kings. LOM had a former Sorprano and a Harvey Keitel. That had to be costly alone and ABC still cancelled the show.
I will still say if the final three of Kings was after the first two, they would have had a better following. Both Kings and LOM was compromised when they had to move.
Life On Mars or Kings?
Sam Tyler or David Shepard?
Gene Hunt or King Silas?
I had the computer record the Last 6 episodes of kings and just got around to watching them yesterday,
I very much enjoyed them. Much more than I had expected to after watching the first part of the series and just thinking it so-so.
It is too bad that not many people will have finished watching the series.
Oh well my better half stopped watching after the first 2 episodes as I am sure many others did.
I think it’s a real bummer that Kings has been canceled. I thought it was a very interesting take on its premise and I really enjoyed watching it. In my opinion, it got stronger with every episode. Toward the end of the season, it was nail bitting television. I minored in Religious Studies in college, particularly Judaism, so I’m quite familiar with the story of Saul’s fall and David’s rise, and I was still on the edge of my seat, even knowing exactly where the plot was going. I’ll miss it.