via press release:
“Late Show” Beats “The Tonight Show” in Viewers For the Third Consecutive Week-First Time Since July 1995
Dave Ties Conan in Adults 25-54 and Continues To Narrow the Gap Among Adults 18-34
“Late Show” Also Tops “Nightline” in Viewers and Demos
“The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson” Tops “Late Night with Jimmy Fallon” By Its Largest Margin in Viewers and Wins in Adults 25-54 for the First Time
CBS’s LATE SHOW with DAVID LETTERMAN beat “The Tonight Show with Conan O’Brien” in viewers for the third consecutive week while continuing to narrow the demo gap, according to Nielsen live plus same day ratings for the week ending July 24.
This marks the first time LATE SHOW has notched three consecutive wins over “The Tonight Show” with first-run broadcasts since the weeks of July 21, July 28 and Aug. 4, 1995.
LATE SHOW with DAVID LETTERMAN delivered a 2.4/06 in households with an average of 3.32m viewers, up +14% in households (from 2.1/06) and +16% in viewers (from 2.87m) compared to the same week last year.
LATE SHOW beat “The Tonight Show” in households (2.4/06 vs. 1.8/05, +33%) and viewers (3.32m vs. 2.51m, +32%). This is the third consecutive week first-run episodes of LATE SHOW beat first-run “The Tonight Show” broadcasts.
Among adults 18-34, LATE SHOW has cut “The Tonight Show’s” lead from -1.6 in Conan O’Brien’s premiere week to just -0.4 in the week ending July 24, the smallest margin yet. For the second time in three weeks, LATE SHOW tied “The Tonight Show” in adults 25-54. For the second consecutive week, LATE SHOW is just -0.2 behind “The Tonight Show” in adults 18-49.
LATE SHOW also topped “Nightline” in viewers (3.32m vs. 3.16m, +5%), adults 18-49 (0.8/03 vs. 0.7/03, +14%) and adults 25-54 (1.1/04 vs. 1.0/04, +10%).
THE LATE LATE SHOW with CRAIG FERGUSON topped “Late Night with Jimmy Fallon” for the second consecutive week in households (1.1/04 vs. 0.9/03, +22%), viewers (1.52m vs. 1.21m, +26%) and adults 25-54 (0.6/03 from 0.5/03, +20%). LATE LATE SHOW beat “Late Night with Jimmy Fallon” by its largest margin in viewers since Fallon’s March 2009 premiere and for the first time since Fallon’s premiere in adults 25-54.
Well, I guess we can move the discussion here now. On top of all this news, did you read the rumor that NBC is thinking of moving Leno to 10:30 due to affiliate fears that viewers will bail after his monologue and skip local news (news would be moved to 10)?
Conan needs something to grab onto quick to stop the bleeding.
I’m sure NBC’s press release will tout Conan’s huge advantage in the Andy Ricter fan club demo – that may be all they are left with in a couple of weeks. It sure will be interesting once Jay is back on the air.
SB, pretty much all the rumors out there now about NBC/Conan/Jay are just crazy talk.
The one you cited, in which NBC would move local news to 10pm and Jay to 10:30. Besides the massive logistical effort that would be involved at the local level (with only 6 weeks to go till Jaytime!), NBC would never give up the last hour of prime time like that. If Jay@10 really does tank, they can put something back into that hour next season. If they give up the time to the local affiliates, it’s gone for good.
Jim, indeed, and you’d think that getting your press release out sooner than the other guy would be an easy way to get at least a bit of advantage in the PR war.
In that regard, ABC has been the winner in recent weeks with CBS close behind. NBC has mysteriously lagged them both.
it would be better for NBC to move the news to 10PM and start Jay at 10:30PM
Bill, its probably cause its harder for NBC to spin the bad ratings
LuigiBros, all the more reason to get in front of the pack!
Bill, the rumor was started by Garth Ancier and reported by Lisa de Moraes on the Washington Post online this morning.
Interesting thought – this is the first time in his broadcast history that Conan has really been a ratings dogfight, and on the losing end at that. Even when he was struggling in the early 90’s, he wasn’t losing to anyone – he was the only network show on back then. Even when Ferguson won a week here and there, it was nothing sustained. Must be a whole new world for O’Brien.
SB, thanks for the tip, I found Lisa’s article. It’s still crazy talk!
I’m a fan of Conan’s, and I watch him every night. I hate to see Conan hurting like this. The way I see it, all the disgruntled Jay Leno viewers moved over to Nightline or Letterman, and Conan’s younger viewers are now being forced to choose between him and Colbert, which airs at the same time. This timeslot is not favorable to Conan.
As long as Jay is a hit at 10pm, Conan will stay at 11:30. NBC can make a lot of money off having Jay succeeding in prime-time, more than they ever did having him at 11:30. This whole change-up was about NBC being able to hold onto both Conan and Jay. If Jay fails at 10pm, look for a major shake-up, because I think then NBC will be far more willing to accommodate Jay and keep him over Conan. But until then, nothing’s changing.
The logical thought would be that SURELY NBC HAS A BACKUP PLAN. But then I remember that it’s NBC.
This is the summer, maybe in the fall with Jay as a lead-in, NBC will go back to the top. NBC’s Late Night schedule is completely different and it will take some time to get used to. And the fight between Letterman and Conan isn’t over yet.
Well let me say that I have peeked in occasionally on Conan since he took over and one of the problems he has is that he is still trying to adjust to 11:30 audiences and what they find funny, and balance that out with what made him funny at 12:30. In reality it’s actually going to take a few years before Conan gets settled in and can find the right balance, then we’ll see if his ratings start to go back up.
That being said, anything that helps Craig Ferguson become the new King of Late Night for real is fine in my book. Though I hope he has a pair of brass ones big enough to say no to CBS should they ask him to replace Letterman at 11:30 in a couple of years.
I know its speculation and all, but I really like the idea of shortening Jay Leno to 30 mins because that way, it won’t suffer the inevitable 2nd-half-hour drop-off. I wonder if that would be a possibility NBC would consider in the future…
Nobody’s going to shorten Jay Leno’s show to half an hour. I am more than sure the contracts he signed for a 10 PM show specify that the show run from 10 to 11. As for moving news to 10 PM instead of 11, that is strictly up to local TV stations, not NBC.
Like I said last week, Colbert isn’t having any effect on Conan. Even when Colbert is in reruns and being watched by well under a million viewers, Conan is still trending down and losing to Letterman. Plus, Colbert has been a frequent guest on Letterman anyway.
Conan actually was in a ratings dogfight for the final years of his Late Night tenure, with Ferguson consistently either tying him, pulling up right behind him, or even just edging him out on occasion. But no, he’s never lost this bad before.
I wonder if Fallon could catch back up to Ferguson if Conan caught back up to Letterman.
TSA–I seriously doubt it, IMO, and I’m not just saying that because I’m a fan of the LLS. The novelty factor is starting to wear off on Fallon’s abilities, and usually a host will start to show something by now that might give the audience reason to stick around, and I don’t think Fallon has shown it to people, not even in brief glimpses. Ferguson, by comparison, still hadn’t made the LLS his own yet, but it had been noticed when he went off-script he got funnier, or when he’d get wrapped up in an interview and forgot to look at the questions the interview was better. Even Conan in his early trainwreck days on Late Night could show very brief glimpses of being funny, and anyone who was a fan of The Simpsons at that time knew Conan could be very funny indeed.
What I think will happen is that Conan may eventually settle in and start to build some of his audience back. But as soon as 12:35 comes around the audience will watch something else besides Jimmy Fallon.
These late night ratings wars beg a huge question for me: Who cares? David Letterman consistently lost to Jay Leno for years, yet CBS kept offering him vast sums of money and he was still considered a legend. Conan is building The Tonight Show from complete scratch and I don’t think anyone, including himself, expected him to win the ratings war just two months in. I’m a huge fan of Conan O’Brien, but I understand that he is an acquired taste. It could take months, even years before he catches up to David Letterman. NBC doesn’t need a backup plan, it just needs time.
As for Jay Leno moving to 10:30, it could go either way for Conan. A Leno bump may prevent his fans from switching channels before Conan, or it could mean trouble for both Conan and Letterman if Leno fans decide his show is the last they want to see for the night. We’ll have to wait and see.
Hey Mr. Gorman,
I’m not sure you are allowed to comment on this but in your opinion, what are the chances that Leno would replace Conan as Tonight Show host? How long of a buffer does Conan have before the execs want Leno back? Wouldn’t that also be a PR disaster? Shouldn’t they let Conan at least finish his 3 years since even Leno was suffering his first couple of years?
I don’t think NBC has a choice but to stick with Conan. Like you pointed out it would be a PR disaster of epic proportions to dump Conan 5 months in and bring Jay Leno back. And Jay isn’t stupid, either–I think he’s figured out what David Letterman eventually figured out when NBC starting thinking of dumping Leno and asking Letterman to return: the Tonight Show is no longer his, and if he were to come in and take over it would be sloppy seconds.
Then again, I wouldn’t put anything past Jeff Zucker, AKA Sauron. He’d be the one person I think who wouldn’t see the problem involved in asking Leno back and dumping Conan.
Conan is getting a little viral action with Shatner performing Palin poetry
Trav, I’m allowed to say anything I want! As it turns out, I’m writing up a post on this right now.
Thanks Bill. Look forward to reading your analysis on how this thing plays out.
John, Conan is not starting up a show completely from scratch. He did his show at 12:30 for 16 years, and moved the entire production including dozens and dozens of staffers across the country to keep as much continuity as possible. In addition, he had 5 YEARS to plan this transition. NBC initially dropped a very successful host to make this transition, and I’m certain no one expected him to be in 3rd place.
Remember, David Letterman did a very similar transition in ‘93, and he was saddled with going to a network with a horrible record in late night and spotty station clearances. Dave made the transition look easy – the show was firing on all cylinders right out of the gate. Sure, Leno came back to take the lead after a few years, but Dave should be given an enormous amount of credit for his graceful move to 11:30, especially compared with the way we’ve seen Conan handling it.
SB, sorry, I didn’t mean he’s starting a show completely from scratch, I meant that it’s completely different from what Jay Leno did and to Leno’s viewers, it’s something totally new.
And I think Letterman’s transition from NBC to CBS was much more smooth because there was a lot less pressure on him at that time. Letterman didn’t have much to lose by beginning a new institution in television, whereas Leno had to deal with replacing the king of late night Johnny Carson, and Conan has had to cope with skepticism and doubt from the moment it was announced he’d be taking over.
Either way, I agree that replacing Conan would be a PR disaster. No one likes to admit that they were wrong and with the way NBC has been spinning the ratings in their favor, they don’t want to admit that replacing Leno so early was also a mistake. If Conan is fired, which he won’t be any time soon, people will just defect to the network that has handled the situation much more professionally (CBS)
All Conan fans could hope is that he will take advantage of the next two weeks in order to build a fan base, since he’s airing new episodes whereas Letterman has repeats.
Sorry, but I can’t agree on the pressure aspect. Letterman had plenty of pressure in ‘93. He might not have been taking over an institution, but he was making a very visible move to a more visible time slot with loads of media attention. Many observers at the time questioned, much like with Conan, whether Dave could make a show work at 11:30.
What it boils down to is, it’s network TV. There is always pressure. Think of it like baseball – you might be pitching for the Yankees or the Nationals, but either way, it’s still enormous pressure pitching in the major leagues.
I’m basically a Letterman person but I have seen a little bit of Conan’s funnier bits on other shows. The earlier poster is right, the Shatner poetry bit was wonderful. Does anyone know if they had promoted the bit and Shatner’s appearance beforehand? Too bad NBC decided to do repeats of Conan the same week Letterman was in repeats. I might have sampled Conan if the shows had been new and I was very surprised that NBC chose to run repeats. How stupid. So I watched all of Colbert instead, switched to Letterman because they were good repeats, and then watched some of Craig since I have the summer off.
So far this whole thing with Conan has been mismanaged. Actually I think Conan’s show should have stayed in New York. Then there would have been real competition with Letterman for guests and Leno would be able to get different people too.
Catherine,
You may want to check out Conan for the next two weeks since he’s got all new episodes whereas Letterman has repeats.
And I think NBC mismanaged by passing the torch to Conan too soon. I would have waited another five years. Then again, Conan would probably have left NBC.
The real winner is Craig Ferguson! I have never seen anyone romance the camera better than him. His monologues are hysterical, witty, zany, and well-delivered. It’s nice to see his ratings improving …. and finally catching on with a younger audience.
About Conan…the slogan comes to mind…”Never give a boy, a man’s job to do”…Way to go Ferguson, you deserve it buddy!!
Well, my opinion is this: I think Dave’s winning the “late night” total viewers because he’s not only a legend, but a familiar face and someone that, love him or hate him, people respect. He’s paid his dues and been around for a loooong time. In fact, all other late night people waited for him to get back on the air after 9/11 and listened to his comments to get some guidance as to how to continue “joking” while the Nation was suffering such a horrible loss of life. Aside from all that, Dave’s someone who can actually have a serious interview with a guest, ask some insightful questions, and still make people laugh and find the humor in any situation – a tricky play but he’s able to pull it off without resorting to “clowning” like some of the others. Julia Roberts once said Dave’s a “national treasure”. I think most of us would grudgingly agree.
as a comedian who has performed on late night television and as someone whose comic sensibility was influenced by letterman and carson I have to say that conan is obviously the future of late night television. His show looks great and and you can feel the energy coming through the screen. He does try to force “moments” but he’ll settle. Letterman is 62 and wont be on tv in five years…leno, i predict, will not do well at 10 because variety shows in prime time went out with sonny and cher he’ll probably decide to do standup instead…Ferguson is campy and kitchy(sp?) and will not appeal to a broad 11:30 audience. Fallon???? being cute only takes u so far…he constantly looks like he’s on the verge of panic attack…..
Ferguson has become a bit too silly lately, showing us just one side of what’s proven, over the last 5 years, to be a multi-facetted personality. He’s also exptremely intelligent, well-read and thoughtful. Given the opportunity, I think he could excel at 11:30.
Corey, Conan is ALWAYS getting viral action.
These next two weeks could be just what Conan needs, but I seriously doubt he’ll still be on top once Letterman is back. Looking at Letterman’s scheduled reruns, he’s got a lot of big episodes in there, including the Joaquin Phoenix episode. In fact, the only suspect episode I see in there is the Jonah Hill episode. So Dave could actually still come out on top even while in reruns. It’s almost like they’re doing a “best of Dave” week. What seems dumb is that they’re still making Ferguson do new episodes when he’s lead-in is reruns.
dan, Conan’s no more “suited” to the 11:35 audience than Ferguson is. In fact, people didn’t think Dave would be suited to an 11:30 audience back when he was on at 12:30 either. Besides, Jon Stewart seems like the most likely candidate to take over for Dave, and Jon can definitely appeal to an 11:35 audience.
I have to disagree about Ferguson being too silly as of late. He’s being his usual self. Silly, campy, flirty, yet witty.
Why do I have a suspicion that Craig will have at least a little fun with the fact that his lead-in is on vacation…
Conan isnt building a Tonight Show from scratch.
He came in with a built in audience.
NBC must of thought he was going to build on that.
Truth of the matter is, he was losing to Ferguson in the
12:35 time slot.
NBC over estimated Conan’s popularity.
I like Conan but he gets tiring after awhile. I need a little
break than come back to him. Then its the same o’ crap again…
After watching the first episode, Im not surprised by Conan’s ratings slide
I didn’t think Conan was going to do well taking over the Tonight Show from the moment I heard he was taking over for jay 5 years ago. His style is just goofy, and just too much of the same stupid humor over and over, very tiring. I think NBC and Conan are putting out the worst Tonight Show to ever be on at this point. I predict that Conans ratings will really go in the toilet once Jay comes back at 10pm.
Andy Richter is the most unfunny person that I have ever co-host a show. What a disaster all the way around.
Conan is the emperor’s new clothes. He never had real competition at 12:30 until Ferguson, who eventually beat him. Now that he’s the host of Tonight he’s been exposed and is getting his ass kicked. I feel sorry for him – he’s in way over his head and he looks scared as hell.
The emperor’s new clothes? Never heard that metaphor before.
I think five years ago, Conan had basically decided “I’ve been doing this for eleven years, which is how long Letterman played the Late Night fiddle before moving somewhere else to be on at 11:30. I kicked that Kilborn guy’s ass all over the place at 12:30. Other networks already want me. Either you’re giving me The Tonight Show, or I’m walking”, and so NBC offered him basically the exact same deal they had offered Letterman eleven years ago. “Keep doing Late Night for a while longer, and in a couple of years we’ll give you The Tonight Show”. While Letterman smartly declined this offer years ago, one of the reasons being that it would look like he was kicking Jay out, Conan gleefully accepted, not realizing he’d have a lot of hardcore Leno fans calling for his head in five years. Ultimately, he’d probably have been better off moving to 11 pm Fox or something (well actually, I’ve never thought it was a good idea to compete with local news affiliates, so 11:30).
The contrast between Conan and Jay can be seen not only in their approach to humor but in their physical appearance. Conan, who seems to be getting skinner and skinner, is all angular and sharp, with bird-like facial features topped off by that affected, rooster comb shock of hair. Jay is round and soft, with his trademarked bulbous, dimpled chin and naturally graying hair, which is possibly chemically augmented in that tuft of youthful black. While Jay’s humor lacks the self-deprecating vein that Conan mines, often too deeply, Jay is invariably kind in his face-to-face appearances with people, especially to those inherently derisible victims he features on his Jaywalking bits. Conan, on the other hand, reveals an inability to hide his naturally acerbic, mean streak when dealing with those whom he considers lesser-lights. Most notable on his new show is his funny but nasty attacks on the pretentious, effete utterances of that dark haired, gender ambiguous person, whose name I can’t recall. In those exchanges I believe Conan reveals the acidic underbelly of his cut-to-the-quick style of humor that will not play nearly as well or as long as Jay’s padded-glove pummeling of his victims.
Conan or my tastes have changed. I enjoyed his show in the late ’90s then largely quit watching TV altogether. I started sometimes watching again around the time of the writers strike. I attributed what I thought was a poor performance to no writers, but when they came back things weren’t much better.
Back when I liked the show, the comedy had an edge w/ bits like the Masturbating Bear and clever absurdity in pieces like In the Year 2000. I liked the monologue back then. Last I checked, the show seemed largely reduced to endless repetitive sight gags that include him shifting his hair or self parodies involving some weird high pitched voice thing. I don’t like his interviewing skills, either. He appeared scared and a suck-up to McCain (oddly out of synch w/ the comedy.)
Letterman seems to get better w/ time and is capable of doing a real interview, not just a free promo for someone’s movie, etc. After all these years, I still love the set.
I can’t watch Leno for five minutes.
Conan just really sucks. I have been a Tonight Show fan since Jack Parr but no longer watch that idiot Conan.
Five years ago, Conan wanted the throne, or threatened to walk. NBC dind’t want the same fiasco they had with Letterman, so they capitulated, perhaps hoping Leno would want to leave in five years anyway. They were wrong, and they should have known.
1) Regardles of who you feel is the funniest late night host, Leno appeals to more people than Conan – period. Hence, Leno belongs in NBC’s most important time slot – even if that means giving up Conan to another network, and having to compoete against him. Letterman did this, and leno beat him all but the first year they competed.
2) Leno never takes a vacation, and does a ton of comedy ta boot all over the country on the weekends. Leno has no kids. Bottom line, Leno’s life IS comedy, and he was NEVER just going to give it up because NBC wanted to keep Conan.
3) Letterman appeals to more people than Conan. So Letterman will win the 11:30 time slot. letterman defined the 12:30 time slot, when he was the first and only act around. Few thought he could mellow to the 11:30 time slot. They thought him too quirky and not serious enough. Turns out, he mellowed some when he moved to 11:30, in fact portraying himself as more professional and regal – much as he anticipated doing had he been asked to take over the tonight show from Johnny (his life-long dream).
Conan has not changed much, and in fact has tried to change little, by bringing as many of his staff to LA as he could convince. He remains quirky, shallow and acerbic – perhaps necessary to keep heavy-eyelids awake in the 12;30 slot. But that is hardly what 11;30 viewers tune in for. They want and expect the professionalism – established 40 years ago by Jack Par and Johnny Carson, and carried forward with jay Leno. Conan does not deliver that, or much of any other qualities, an entire country has come to expect form the traditional late-night leader, so he will lose to Letterman in the 11:30 time slot.
4) Jimmy Fallon is simply not funny. I never liked him on SNL, and I don’t like him replacing Conan at 12:30. NBC should be an acronym for, the “No Brains Campaign.” Ever since NBC somehow found itself on top the ratings in the early 90’s, with a tremendous SNL line-up, and with sitcom hits like Cheers, Seinfeld and Friends, they have been slowly and steadily micromanaging themselves into oblivion with some of the most obtuse and moronic management decisions I have ever had the misery to witness in a corporation. If I didn’t know better, I would swear Bernie Madoof had also been running NBC, what with their seeming desire to live in denial and operate in a fashion that was destined for unltimate failure.
From micromanaging SNL – requiring Lorin to fire the likes of Farley, Spade, Sandler and Rock, whom they felt were not appealing enough to “family values (since when has SNL ever played to that crowd), to stringing one of their best shows along for six years – Scrubs never giving them their own timeslot for more than a few months, before moving it elsewhere, to analiating their Friday night Sci Fi Channel lineup of SG1, Stargate Atlantis and Battlestar Galactica, and replkacing them with wrestling of all things. Since when does wrestling belong on the Sci Fi channel???
I have a friend on the inside at NBC, and she says the place is the most incestous, nepatistic organization in existance. The people in charge are incompetent, but they get to keeop their jobs due to nepatism, and because General Electric does not really esxpect much from what amounts to a very small portion of their overall company’s profits. GE just like’s being associated with a Television Network. So GE’s vanity is the world’s loss.
NBC has fallen behind the other three networks in virtually every category. The only things left to NBC were SNL – temporarily revived by one of the most moving presidential campaigns in history – and late night. So long as NBC left well enough alone, they owned the late night ratings. But NBC (No Brains Company) could not leave well enough, and managed to find a way to destroy that as well.
I sincerely hope Leno is a success at 10 PM. For one, I rather like Leno, although I thing Ferguson is by far the funniest guy on television these days. He is natural, original, off the cuff, can tell a hilarious, impromptu, and even complex story that meanders, yet always finds it’s way back to where it should – all while leaving you in utter stitches along the way.
Frankly, I feel the best thing thaty could possibly happen to NBC, is if all of their late night line-up were to fail. At that point, GE might finally be willing to sell NBC, or perhaps even make them their own company again – thereby requiring them to hire some competent management, and throw out the cronies.
Ironically, 30 Rock, and it’s portrayal of NBC as a dinoausaric, bufonic insitution of self interested top management, sub-par writers, and an aged perception that the masses will watch NBC, no matter what drivel they put out, might be the most accurate portrayal of NBC in reality. It is amazing that a scarily honest portrayal of such utter imcompetence within a network, could somehow become one of the network’s best shows. I guess people can appreciate the irony of the company poking fun at itself, recognizing that ithas become the laughing stock of the four major networks.
Do I sense a tinge of humility forming within the walls of NBC? If so, and somehow that becomes appealing to people – at least enough that they don’t continue to flee the NBC ship quite so quickly as they have been doing for so very long now – well I think you would still be safe to bet, that NBC executives would find a way to somehow mismanage into oblivion, any success that such luck-struck humility might ever be able to generate…
I hope I don’t sound like too much of a fatalist here, however, until their is a structural change at NBC (GE), and a MAJOR shake-up in management, nothing is likley to change in the continued downward spiral of the network.