| Scoreboard |  |
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|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Rating: Adults 18-49 | 6.5/16 | 4.0/10 | 3.5/9 | 2.4/6 | 1.6/4 | 1.1/3 |
| Rating: Adults 18-34 | 6.3/17 | 2.7/7 | 2.4/7 | 2.4/7 | 1.6/4 | 1.6/4 |
| Total Viewers (million) | 16.50 | 12.01 | 14.83 | 5.90 | 3.90 | 2.28 |
It’s like Christmas, only I don’t know which presents to open first. Plus, I haven’t even gotten all the presents yet.
Dancing With the Stars opened with 17.5 million viewers and a 4.1/10. House opened with a 16.5 million and a whopping 6.5 adults 18-to-49 rating between 8pm and 10pm. Dancing was down from last year, and had its lowest premiere ever, but House was up versus last year’s premiere.
Heroes two hour opener began with a 2.7/7 (rating/share) with adults 18-49 between 8pm-10pm. That led into The Jay Leno Show at 10pm with 5.7 million and dipped below a 2.0 demo rating for the first time with a 1.8/5 rating/share with adults 18-49.
The Big Bang Theory bested Two and a Half Men with adults 18-49 (4.6 vs. 4.4) and How I Met Your Mother was still strong (3.5)
ABC’s Castle debuted to 9.4 million viewers, but only a 2.3 rating with adults 18-49. It’s half hour numbers though reveal what I imagine were a couple of minute overage for DWTS. In the first half hour, Castle had a 2.5/6 with adults 18-49 and from 10:30p-11p that fell to a 2.1/6. In viewers it went from 10.28 million average the first half hour to 8.58 million the second.
Historical Jay Leno comparisons via NBC:
- Versus Jay Leno’s 2008-09 average at 11:35 p.m. ET on “The Tonight Show with Jay Leno,” last night’s telecast was up in adults 18-49 (1.8 vs. 1.4), adults 25-54 (2.2 vs. 1.8) and total viewers (5.7 million vs. 5.1 million). Comparisons with NBC’s Monday-through-Friday 10-11 p.m. ET non-sports average over the prior 52 weeks are: in adults 18-49, 1.8 vs. 2.2; in adults 25-54, 2.2 vs. 2.7; and in total viewers, 5.7 million vs. 6.9 million).
The CW liked ONE TREE HILL at 8pm which was flat week to week in adults 18-34 (1.6/4), women 18-34 (2.4/6), adults 18-49 (1.2/3) and viewers (2.5mil) against its regular competition. Things weren’t so nice for Gossip Girl though, who got one last beat-down from House and had 18-34(1.6/4), W18-34(2.4/6) and 18-49 (1.1/1).
Gossip Girl will typically face off against Lie To Me.
Full details:
| Time | Net | Show | 18-49 Rating/Share | Viewers (Millons) |
| 8:00 | FOX | House | 6.2/16 | 15.76 |
| ABC | Dancing With the Stars | 4.0/10 | 17.43 | |
| CBS | How I Met Your Mother | 3.5/9 | 9.22 | |
| NBC | Heroes | 2.8/7 | 6.27 | |
| CW | One Tree Hill | 1.2/3 | 2.48 | |
| 8:30 | CBS | Accidentally on Purpose | 3.2/8 | 8.99 |
| 9:00 | FOX | House | 6.9/16 | 17.25 |
| CBS | Two and a Half Men | 4.4/10 | 13.59 | |
| ABC | Dancing With the Stars | 4.2/10 | 17.64 | |
| NBC | Heroes | 2.7/6 | 5.77 | |
| CW | Gossip Girl | 1.1/3 | 2.09 | |
| 9:30 | CBS | The Big Bang Theory | 4.6/10 | 12.83 |
| 10:00 | CBS | CSI: Miami | 4.3/11 | 13.73 |
| ABC | Castle | 2.3/6 | 9.43 | |
| NBC | The Jay Leno Show | 1.8/5 | 5.67 |
You can see TV ratings from other recent Overnight ratings reports here.
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All numbers are Live+SD.
Nielsen TV Ratings: ©2009 The Nielsen Company. All Rights Reserved.
Definitions:
*Fast Affiliate Ratings: These first national ratings, including demographics, are available at approximately 11 AM (ET) the day after telecast, and are released to subscribing customers daily. These data, from the National People Meter sample, are strictly time-period information, based on the normal broadcast network feed, and include all programming on the affiliated stations, sometimes including network programming, sometimes not. The figures may include stations that did not air the entire network feed, as well as local news breaks or cutaways for local coverage or other programming. Fast Affiliate ratings are not as useful for live programs and are likely to differ significantly from the final results, because the data reflect normal broadcast feed patterns. For example, with a World Series game, Fast Affiliate Ratings would include whatever aired from 8-11PM on affiliates in the Pacific Time Zone, following the live football game, but not game coverage that begins at 5PM PT. The same would be true of Presidential debates as well as live award shows and breaking news reports.
Rating: Estimated percentage of the universe of TV households (or other specified group) tuned to a program in the average minute. Ratings are expressed as a percent.
Share (of Audience): The percent of households (or persons) using television who are tuned to a specific program, station or network in a specific area at a specific time. (See also, Rating, which represents tuning or viewing as a percent of the entire population being measured.)
Time Shifted Viewing – Program ratings for national sources are produced in three streams of data – Live, Live+Same Day (Live+SD) and Live+7 Day. Time shifted figures account for incremental viewing that takes place with DVRs which are currently in approximately 24.4% of all U.S. TV households. Live+Same Day (Live+SD) include viewing during the same broadcast day as the original telecast, with a cut-off of 3:00AM local time when meters transmit daily viewing to Nielsen for processing. Live+7 Day ratings include incremental viewing that takes place during the 7 days following a telecast.
For more information see Numbers 101.
Great shows doing strongly. Poor shows and reality shows falling dramatically. Just the way I like it.
Heroes final season is here
Wow Heroes definitely flopped last night…and it’s only going to get worse from here.
Leno looks like he’s settling into his “normal” numbers now.
argh. Too bad for Heroes. Hoping DVD sales and hulu views can keep it afloat.
Dancing With the Stars is scripted?
I mean, I know the dances are rehearsed…..
If i am reading those numbers correctly(and i am not sure i am) Heroes will have serious problems getting a ffith season if those numbers hold. Can’t say i care at this point
That’s huge for House, and I can’t believe that TBBT beat 2.5 Men. (Of course, while TBBT was up, 2.5 Men was down, so it’s not as big an accomplishment as it could have been.)
What about Castle? All the reports I read said it did bad, but didn’t provide specifics.
I guess this is is the deathknell for Heroes.
I hope this is Heroes’ final season. I’m still going to watch it, but it needs to end. What was the finale rating of last season? Was it like a 2.9ish? I think that’s what it was if i remember correctly.
AND HOLY CRAP AT HOUSE! That’s its best ratings since season 3 when it was on Tuesdays averaging 7.2 ratings every week!
Good for House! I think we will start to see real numbers now. Glee is in its third week and while everyone wants to talk about all the promotions for the show, I think it should be noted that Glee and SYTYCD had the chance to premier without lots of competition. The downside of that was they didn’t have strong nights around them to promote them. I think this will be a good season for Fox. There was a time when Fox was American Idol and that was it. It is great to see that the network that started with a little cheap block of Sunday night shows, now has a really strong lineup of programming. I think Lie to Me will find its voice. Fringe was keep getting better, and with the solid line up future projects on Fox will have a better chance. With all the bad news out there, some people are working hard to create their own success stories.
Leno with a 1.8 and 5.7 mil even with the Heroes season premiere as a lead-in?? Expect those to drop even more as Heroes unfortunatley continues to slump and other network shows begin. Its possible my prediction of 1.5 and 4.5mil could have been generous.
I like the idea that Two and a half Men & The Big Bang Theory are next to each other. Together they make the Ultimate Combo of Excellent Ratings
WOW! huge numbers for house! I cant see any scripted shows doing better for a premier this season (demo), maybe Greys/DH but other then that…
The1337, Castle now added but 9.3 million and a 2.3 A18-49
Pisher, I don’t know if your comment was directed toward me or not, but DWTS had its weakest premiere by far last night as reported by other sites. I don’t see it in this post, but I assume Robert will mention that in his next update.
Robert, did Gossip Girl have the exact same numbers as OTH or was that a mistake?
complete mistake. I typed 8pm twice!
Will fix. Edit: though the only thing different is the 18-49 numbers
Wow, House is really strong, it the highest rated episode since the season 4. Fox must be really proud! Bones started bigger, House is starting bigger, fringe wasn’t that bad. If house can keep these number up across the season I guess lie to me will get strong numbers to.
By the way, House premiere was amazing, they changed, for once, and that’s really nice, seems it paid off in the end.
Castle seems to do okay, I guess…
And Heroes, well, did someone expected it to do better?
BTW, is 9:30 the reg. slot for TBBT? Anyone?
I wasn’t that surprised by TBBT’s success. It was routinely beating TaaHM this summer.
I really enjoy Castle and hope it finds its audience. Heroes needs to go now! I watched part of Dancing and thought it was the worst ever. WIll be interesting to see if those numbers continue. SYTYCD is a much better dance show.
Happy to see Leno tank – hope it continues.
5506, yes, TBBT’s regular spot was moved to 9:30.
I just hope Accidentally on Purpose premiered well. I thought it had a nice charm to it.
I honestly did not care about Heroes it wasnt bad but it wasnt season 1 phenomanal
From Media Life:
The night’s only series premiere, CBS’s 8:30 p.m. Jenna Elfman comedy “Accidentally on Purpose,” averaged a 3.2 rating, losing 9 percent of “How I Met Your Mother’s” lead-in and finishing third in the timeslot.
I don’t think Heroes’ numbers are that surprising considering what it’s up against on other networks and NBC’s overall awfulness. I have a feeling it’ll have a large DVR boost though. The question is whether that, combined with the DVD sales, is enough for NBC. Which, sadly, looking at the present NBC picture, it just might be.
Great news for House though! Also, Dancing with the Stars unsurprisingly does well. But man, I really hate the fact that show even exists.
Great that One Tree Hill got the same ratings as last week. I feared they’d drop a little, but it seems OTH has the most loyal fans out there.
With no promotion, they also beat the hyped GG again.
Castle did not do good & Jay did bad at 10:00. Does that mean CSI’s numbers were through the roof?
House did fantastic and to beat ABC is astonshing, CBS were down from last year but the demos were pretty solid. I think CBS will be pleased that AOP held onto most of the HIMYM audience.
Wow. It seems with those numbers of comparison that NBC provided, Leno may be headed for about the same audience levels (both overall and 18-49) as he was drawing at 11:30. It’s enough possible that his numbers might go lower than his late-night numbers, especially on nights when the competition is really fierce (i.e., The Mentalist). Will NBC be happy with that, even with the lower costs of production for Leno versus scripted shows?
Also, I have to say that the show he is putting out is worse than the show he had at 11:30. I’ve only watched about 10 minutes of the new show in total, but I cringed at the bits I saw…those lame 10 @ 10 questions and that comedy piece where the punchlines were shown as still photos. I would think the quality of the show would be a detriment to the ratings. At the very least, I would think they’d need to get someone in there to retool the format.
huge drop for jay leno.5,7 m.view on its sixth show???thats bad!!
house premiere numbers is amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!
oth did great!!!!!!!
GG is a bomb, i mean with all the promotion still gets beaten by the old OTH in viewers and 18-49, and only ties OTH in W18-34.
The big question seems to be “What was NBC thinking?”.
I tuned into Heroes last night. Not a phenomenal episode, but not a horrible one either. I doubt I’ll watch any of the other episodes this season.
There were two things about the broadcast last night that really shocked me though:
1) NBC’s new “Colorful” campaign. Really? That’s the BEST they could do? NBC’s line up is hardly “colorful” (and neither are it’s casts for that matter). The marketing tag (and implementation) SUCK.
2) The Jay Leno intro from Heroes. It’s awful, just awful. Design/Music/Production everything. They should scrap it and go back to the drawing board. I flipped the channel and honestly, I’ll never watch a show with a intro as horrible as this ones.
I really hope NBC has an exit strategy for Monday nights, they’re gonna need it.
Great premiere for House. Of course, it will loose some next week, but it will still be a dominant power on Monday nights.
On the other hand, not all that great of a start for Dancing. It’s not horrible by any stretch, but since their numbers generally go down after the premiere, it’s not promising.
AOP did OK for its first outing.
TBBT is going to do great in that slot.
Castle came in about where I expected.
Holly, Castle looks better to the retentionistas today. Not because it did well, but because DWTS did poorly! Woo-hoo!
I don’t view Leno’s numbers as particularly surprising or worrying at this point.
Big story from last night was Fox/House opening up, bucking the trend of everything else premiering down.
Poor ABC. I like them.
I think The CW will renew AT LEAST 2 WB shows (Supernatural + either Smallville or OTH).
Thats a low premiere for Castle. At least it did better than Leno which Im sure ABC is happy about. Leno will probably remain between 1.5-2.0 demo. If it goes any lower, NBC will be in trouble!
And I just read that Heather Locklear is returning to Melrose Place so the ratings for it may improve!!
Yay! I’m so happy the House premier got the numbers it deserved. It was a brilliant episode. I’m glad Fox decided to promote this premier so hugely (the whole snakes on a cane campaign), obviously it worked
TBBT beating Two and a half Men is the icing on the cake for me, as I loove TBBT and kind of hate Two and a half Men. So Yay!
I’ve been looking at the promos for NBC’s Trauma set to premiere soon and I’m liking the look of it. The only problem is, Monday is such a competitive night with FOX, CBS and ABC’s programming that I can’t see Trauma doing any good.
So a couple of questions for people, do we all think that Trauma is going to fail automatically due to the strong competition on the other networks and secondly, does anyone else think that NBC should premiere some of their new shows on nights with less competition, allow the show to build an audience, then shift it to a more competitive night hoping that viewers will follow? I can’t see the point in premiering a brand new show up against such strong, well established competition.
On another note, well done to The Big Bang Theory, nice to see it back and doing even better than before and also great number by House, building on it’s first hour in total viewers. Fantastic results from both shows.
* By the way everyone, I’m a long time reader of this website, first time poster. I appreciate all the hard work that goes into this site and value reading everyone’s opinions. I’m also Australian.
I was really worried about TBBT moving to 9:30pm, but I’m glad to hear its still doing well. And I’m sure it will continually do so, especially when Heroes wont be two hours next week.
Good for HOUSE. What an impressive demo.
I was wondering how long they’d play out this “mental hospital” arc. Nice change of pace for the show and it let HOUSE grow as a character (finally).
Does anyone get why Castle skews older while CSI: Miami skews younger? CSI: Miami is flashier, but I’d think the cast of Castle would appeal to young people. I wonder how many people who watch TBBT stay for CSI: Miami which seems to have its own built-in audience.
does anyone else think that NBC should premiere some of their new shows on nights with less competition, allow the show to build an audience, then shift it to a more competitive night hoping that viewers will follow?
The only shows premiering against a lot of competition are Trauma and Community. (Wednesdays at 8 is a rather empty time slot for Mercy). Community is getting the best premiere slot then moving, so that leaves Trauma. Where would you premiere it?
Regardless, my answer would be no, it wouldn’t be better to premiere it somewhere else and then move it. That might increase the initial sampling but is unlikely to help it after the move.
Monday isn’t the strongest night for Leno’s competition – I expect lower numbers for the next couple days as people sample new shows. Still, if Leno can do 1.8 vs. new shows, their average after repeat weeks should easily hit the 2.0ish mark of a success. (Though again, we need to see how Conan numbers do to mark the experiment as a success.)
6.5 for House! Wowzers! Of course, one could draw the conclusion that viewers like the character House but have grown tired of the status quo case-of-the-week structure – and the show returned to said status quo as fast as it could. This will be back in high 3s/ low 4s territory (which is still a major hit nowadays) before sweeps – but if any show on TV would benefit from a premise shakeup, it is House.
Castle with a 2.3 is exactly what I thought – a ratings purgatory where the numbers are too low for ABC to want to keep, but so high there is no guarantee a mid-season replacement would do any better. We’ll see how it does the next couple weeks, but I think the show will get a backorder – and yanked off the schedule frequently as ABC tries other shows there.
“Things weren’t so nice for Gossip Girl though, who got one last beat-down from House”
That’s your view. I think that’s the regular season ceiling for CW’s “Beautiful Girls” genre. Insert boilerplate “Why doesn’t Warner Bros. take their ball and go home?” comment here.
We’ll see how much audience swaps back from House to Heroes… but I suspect not much. We all know Heroes is all but canceled now anyway. The real question is how badly Trauma does at their pricetag with Heroes as lead-in, and if NBC buys new episodes to cover until the Olympics(or what they air instead).
CBS did well across the board, with Mother doing well even at 8pm. AoP can’t be evaluated for a couple more weeks. Still expect AoP will fade, but whether the fade is bad enough to yank immediately or give a small backorder until RoE is the continuing question.
All in all, no surprises. Double Tuesday should be more interesting.
No, Holly. I don’t think Accidentally On Purpose (what an awful name!) did OK. Shows at 8:30 usually build because of the larger audience tuning in. This went down. HIMYM is an established show and their numbers should stay consistent — AOP will fall next week again. Possibly to a 3.0 or worse in the demo. I say this because… the show was pretty bad and Jenna Elfman is annoying. She may have her fans but her fans initially tuned in to her last failed CBS show and then couldn’t run away fast enough. Did all those episodes even air? Rules is waiting in the wings and always does well for CBS. It’s just a matter of time.
Bill, don’t forget that TBBT was up as well. The two best shows on the air last night just so happened to be the two that increased their viewership.
Wow heroes last night was real good the problem with heroes is they never bounced back from the writers strike it’s like a real good movie u have 2 be into it 2 understand the story arcs truth be told heroes is the best show out there best storylines people just need to stop trying to rush 2 judgement I mean come on people 2 and ahalf men better than heroes????? Please STOP IT!!!!!!!
Chief, I stand corrected, TBBT was the exception to the “everybody down but House” effect.
House was huge 16 million WOW!!!!
The Big Bang Theory with a 4.6 rating and being number 2 for the evening is awesome.
TBBT has a chance of being number 1 when house goes down in the next couple of weeks.
Dancing with the stars did OK with a 4.1
Oh great to see that OTH haven’t lost viewers! But season six started better last year..
Now Heroes fans will see what Chuck had to deal with every Monday. Not Pretty when the shoe is other foot.
What was the number of viewers for The big Bang Theory
How are NBC’s repeated comparisons of Leno’s ratings with old Tonight Show ratings relevant to anything?
There are a lot more eyeballs on TVs at 10pm than 11:35pm. Some of us who work in the morning are asleep long before Tonight Show’s time slot (or even 10pm for that matter, I would be DVRing Mentalist if I wasn’t on Central Time).
well, i think Castle did fine. DWTS was down, and Castle still stayed right where it was last season. a 2.3 isnt awful, and if it stays there with its 9 million viewers, I believe ABC should keep it around, considering no new shows on ABC can do any better. Castle has been consistant and I think ABC has to be somewhat pleased with the results.
Joe R, others. The data is all in. I am sure Robert will have it all posted soon. Hang on.
@Agent Chuck
At least Heroes doesn’t have to go against TBBT. Hopefully Heroes will drop so low Chuck comes back early.
zifmia, the comparisons are relevant in the PR world of “accentuate the positive” whether meaningful or not.
Well I’m not surprised at all by Heroes numbers. Even if the season is good, it would hardly signigicantly go up, for obvious reasons (NBC/Anything against it). My guess is it will float around those ratings for this (probably-)finale season.
I’m actually more surprised that House did that good. I haven’t watched the premiere yet, but if it goes back to being (almost-)procedural (I’m giving it 2 eps after the premiere), I’ll quickly tune off. I can’t remember any great episode since the S4 2-part finale, but I guess I’m an exception.
Good thing for TBBT and HIMYM, 2 shows that I love. I still don’t find “2 and Half…” even a bit funny so anything beating it is good news to me.
table coming shortly…hang on…
Robert –
I’d be interested to see the half hours on the double Heroes, if you can get them.
HIMYM is awesome and should be the most watched sitcom on tv.
The Castle numbers do have me worried but thankfully ABC still doesn’t have any procedurals to lean on which boosts Castle’s chances of survivial (Procedurals re-run better and can be plugged easily into scheduling holes meaning every network wants to have a few in their stable). That said, if it loses that much lead-in next week I don’t think it’ll hang on to the post-DWTS spot for too much longer.
I doubt that Chuck will come back early if Heroes fails. Its ratings in the demo at the end of last year were horrible.
heroes is soooo good tho, why america? why dont you watch it?
Agent Chuck, the 9pm hour was much more competitive than the 8pm hour last night. This is nothing Heroes hasn’t dealt with before. It’s just too weak a show at this point to compete.
Chief, I wasn’t aiming AT you, but the #1 show last night was unscripted, and hit scripted shows also tend to decline in the ratings over time. I hate DWTS, but considering Tom DeLay was one of the dancers, it did pretty amazing.
Castle is a hollowed-out shell of a show. It had plenty of time (and plenty of repeats, and plenty of promotion) to build its audience, and could not have asked for a better premiere date, timeslot, lead-in, or competition.
What’s really humiliating is that when you allow for the much smaller overall audience Leno had last night, Castle actually skews OLDER.
CHUCK Is the best show, give em a full season NBC
pisher, House was #1 last night among the adult demos that matter. Although I’m sure ABC’s press release will emphasize how well they did with average viewership.
Wow, House just destroyed everything.
Are numbers out for CSI Miami yet? They may explain the big hit Leno took, aside from the weak Heroes lead-in.
Gigantic numbers for House. I didn’t watch the whole episode but it was nice to see that show step out of the procedural box and try something different, and it paid off in spades. CBS could learn something from that.
The problem NBC has to be thinking about is Hero’s just premiered one night after very heavy promotions during the Sunday night Dallas game. That was like being promoted during the Super Bowl. They have some issues at the moment. But there are some great shows still to come from NBC. Trauma could be very strong on its own. The action looks great. Blowing up a tanker was a great idea.
Everyone, look up, the table is in the post now. ^^^
Bill, I’m not championing network reality (though frankly, the best of cable reality kicks most network scripted where it hurts), but with its budget, DWTS doesn’t need great demo. House did very well indeed. I personally can’t stand either show. I don’t root for scripted over unscripted, or vice versa. I root for good over bad. Frankly, there was nothing all that good on last night.
@Ryan- because Heroes trashed half of its audience with subpar seasons. I gave up on it because its basically the same story recycled with little character development. Seeing it get trounced in the ratings just confirms that people would rather watch something else.
Wow House got big ratings last night.
wow, a 6.9 for House in the second hour….well deserved. a very good double episode last night.
Considering it kept most of Heroes second hour audience I don’t think Leno did that bad. I watched his monologue before turning to Castle.
Leno is still making money for NBC.
Castle is still losing money for ABC.
And just wait until Castle’s lead-in is The Bachelor.
Hopefully Heroes will go higher or it will be enough for NBC, seeing as the show is against harder competition (though I think how Chuck does this spring will also change NBC’s opinion). Hopefully Mercy and Law & Order: SVU do badly on wednesday! Sadly it seem that Heroes was up in quality but by now it seems the veiwers don’t really care.
Interesting… I wonder why House gained viewers both in the demo and total in the second hour. I would think people would want to catch the first hour and if they missed it they wouldn’t watch halfway through…
Can we get some hour by hour univision numbers in the table?
Glad to see TBBT becoming the next big comedy hit and HIMYM holding its own. Also good to see 2.5 Men holding up well in its 7th season.
Also hilarious to see Heroes continuing to spiral downward. I’ll have to watch the premiere later just to see how bad it is. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if the premiere is funnier than CBS’s comedies, albeit for all the wrong reasons!
To pisher’s point, NBC’s Zucker has said that if Leno averaged a 1.8 18-49 demo that it would be a “home run”.
That’s not to say I’d predict it at this point, I think many more months of Leno results are needed to get good idea of the situation, but the idea that NBC is quaking because of last night’s Leno results is silly.
Not that surprising about House. It’s gotten so much media coverage about the House in a nuthouse arc that even people who quit watching were intrigued enough to tune in. I do expect at least somewhat of a drop-off in the viewers next week though.
Castle’s demo number isn’t good but I have a feeling that as long as it does better than Leno and the number doesn’t go below a 2.0 that ABC may hang on to the show (unless at least two of their new shows are break-out hits). But they must certainly have lost patience with it by now. My guess is either it’ll be allowed its 13 episodes and not get a backorder or will be shipped off to Fridays and another show (Flash Forward or Modern Family or Cougar Town) will take its place.
For those wondering why Castle skews so old, one word: Disney. ABC/Disney also produces the show which makes it almost like an ABC Family show, wholesome and not edgy enough to pull in the younger audiences for the most part. Notice how Castle and his daughter have such a warm and fuzzy relationship?
I just want Heroes to last long enough for us to hopefully get fully powered badass Peter and Hiro back. After I get that I’ll be ok if it ends.
Dan, Robert and I will be discussing whether or not to add Univision show data back into the tables now that the tables are back, but on crazy days like today, we’re working hard just to get things out the door, so to speak.
NBC really bet on the wrong horse when they had faith in Heroes but had to be persuaded to give Chuck even 13 more episodes.
I expected Leno to fall but not quite that much.
I’d like to see those numbers too, Scot.
Season 3 left a bad enough impression, but I think going up against the premiere of House also struck a blow to Heroes. I wouldn’t be surprised if they share some of the younger audience, despite the genre difference.
Disney’s product mainly skews very YOUNG–like BELOW the 18-49 demo.
I think Castle’s problem has a one-word explanation.
Fillion.
I wonder why there is 2 more million viewers at 9 for house… Well.. 6.9 demos… we don’t see that often. In fact I think I never saw that other than on american Idol or some sports events
thirdsaint, I think weather/sun effects are still good enough in the bulk of the country to depress first hour primetime TV ratings. That will slowly diminish and when daylight savings time ends 8pm will get another boost.
No matter how anyone skews the numbers or how much the PR department spins them, NBC is the clear loser last evening.
Really? Hmm, that’s interesting. Didn’t realize that factors into TV ratings, haha. I love House so it’s great to see this perform so well. I think they do a good enough job at trying to changes things up from time to time and I also don’t mind the more status quo episodes so long as they are funny. I’d like House to go another 2 seasons at least and from the looks of it only the actors or writers will have a say on when it ends.
NBC is the loser, but more because of what came BEFORE Leno. Leno is actually the bright spot of last night for them. Ain’t that sad?
I agree with Vetinari, Chuck and Heroes should have been flipped. Chuck should have been shown first to capitalize on the save the show momentum and Heroes should have been given time to iron out all the kinks.
HIMYM was legend…..wait for it…..dary!!!!happy for TBBT…..
thirdsaint,
That usually has something to do with DVRing, doesn’t it?
Julia , I agree with you about “heroes is too weak to compete ” , however I do not see ( looking to the numbers ) any real difference between competition @ 8pm and 9pm
I find it interesting that CSI’s numbers didn’t do ginormous. After everything Les said about Leno giving them more viewers, it doesn’t look like that’s the case. Judging by the numbers, it looks like people actually turned off their TVs if they didn’t want to watch Jay, NOT switching it to CBS like they had predicted.
I think this is proving my point that really the only network that could be affected by Leno’s show is FOX’s 10 o’clock news. ABC and CBS won’t be getting NBC’s old viewers, but they won’t be hurt by Jay either (not like the latter was a threat).
Castle and HIMYM were best. It is such a tremendous joy to have Castle back every week. The writing is somehow even better this season, which I didn’t think was possible. There’s so much new to the show, and yet there’s enough throwbacks to the first season to elate us long-term fans. I feel like I’m watching “Heat Wave: The Move!” I watched the premiere with a room full of wide-eyed jaw-dropped friends. We all agree that this was a phenomenal episode, and a great way to kick off what promises to be an amazing season.
One of the more interesting trends to me (though not listed above) was how thoroughly House/FOX dominated the adults 18-34 ratings from 8pm-10pm. From 9:30p to 10pm house had a 6.7/17 with A18-34, and ABC, CBS and NBC all had a 2.9/7. It was a much closer race between ABC, CBS, and NBC in that demo from 8pm-10pm, with Dancing edging out NBC for most of the period (CBS always last other than the 9:30p slot)
Last night was the first time I watched House on its original air date. I think the increase in its ratings over last year is due, in part, to USA playing repeats a lot. That’s what got me interested. Although it does not surprise me that its numbers got bigger in the second hour, I wonder whether the numbers include the folks who started watching House in the 9p hour but actually went to their DVR and watched the first hour then?
Ah ok, that makes sense. I wonder how many people actually watch a show they DVR in the first night. I know I sure don’t and quite a few of these I won’t watch for a couple weeks as I try to catch up on my DVD’s.
Phiser,
Funny how everyone on this site uses numbers to support their posts, while you seem to only be here to bad mouth one of the most well-liked actors in Hollywood.
chrisjozo, I remember hearing(from Nick C, I think) that Brian Fuller had argued with Tim Kring about pushing Heroes back to midseason to re-tool, but Kring had insisted they should premiere in the fall, and that may have helped lead to Fuller’s leaving the show.
Fillion is even more teeth-gratingly awful than he was last season, which I didn’t think was possible either.
Enjoy it while you can. In less than a year, the Castle will fall.
OTH has the loyal fans ever!!! It would be so great to see it renewed next year (=
The change in time for TBBT is def an improvement and it is so awesome that it is on later now! Those House numbers are amazing for a show that many people thought had run its course. Too bad for Heroes (NOT!)
KHL–
Funny how you don’t have any numbers to support how well-liked Fillion is. Certainly not NIELSEN numbers. Or box office numbers. Or really, any factual basis whatsoever.
But say he was really well-liked in Hollywood?
What does that have to do with anything?
Sorry, responding to Sky, not KHL.
pifeedback is down, just hanging out.
nkinsey, I wrote on the site earlier about the illusion of the ratings bonanza for everyone else at 10pm because of Leno.
Fact is, at 10pm last night, 70% of US TV sets were tuned to something other than ABC, CBS and NBC.
Although Heroes is obviously in trouble, I think from next week on it’ll do a lot better, particularly since it’s not going up against House and its monster premiere. Still need to compete against Dancing with the Stars, which was premiering also. And the CBS comedies, but nothing new here. House was the real killer.
Heroes against Lie to Me will be quite fine.
House may have premiered well but it is no where near the numbers it used to be. I think all shows will be down from years past and I think studio execs are just going to have to start getting used to that. Hopefully Greys pulls in big numbers and Desperate Housewives can at least get 15 million for its premiere
I’m interested to see how the good wife does tonight but I’m really looking forward to see how wednesday shakes out across the board
Bill, much closer to 80% with adults 18-49, and over 80% with adults 18-34…
UH, House was up 11% at 9, DWTS was up 5% at 9, CBS’s comedies were up 32% at 9. How don’t you see the difference between 8 and 9?
So pisher’s sojourn here will be short lived? Good, I was worried I would have to stop reading comments.
The Castle thing : I have to agree with pisher. You can’t blame Disney for it. Look at GA which is produced by ABC/Disney.
It’a almost like an ABC family show, wholesome and not edgy. BUT it still pulls in the younger audiences, I think it’s one of the youngest.
I would even go farer and say that it’s because of it that is still able to pull young audience. For comparison, ER was far more a medical drama than GA and less “soapy”, and because of this it used to skew older.
I just don’t get this Fillion appeal, I don’t find him funny AT ALL.
Anon, Castle does not pull in younger audiences. At least not relatively speaking. CSI: Miami had commanding leads with both 18-49, and 18-34, and even Jay Leno beat Castle with 18-34. From 10:30pm the 18-34 ratings were 2.7./8 for CSI: Miami, 1.5/5 for Leno and 1.2/4 for Castle.
Ugh, I thought at least there would be no pisher rooting for everything firefly related to get canceled, and the condescending attitude and mocking of other posters here. Oh well.
Good premiere for HIMYM. It doesn’t look like the series premiere of Accidentally on Purpose fared as well.
+1 on Heroes/Chuck should have switched Fall/Spring slots. (And I’m not a Chuck fan, but it probably would have been better for both shows).
Heroes numbers are normal for the simple reason that S3 doomed its ratings. It’s not in a harder time slot than last year, it’s about the same (at least that’s how I see it). It’s low numbers (that hilariously are “good” for NBC) are what it deserves now. People who stayed are still there, but people who left will hardly come back, and I don’t see how they could get new viewers.
Those House numbers are gigantic… I’m gonna watch the episodes later today. Let’s hope they’re not going back to CSI-ish procedurals any time soon. My guess is House will lose some of the premiere bump, but the real question is how much.
Julia, if you don’t stop with the peeved personal attacks, I might just decide to stick around permanent. I can never resist that kind of thing.
Now that we’ve got more info on the half-hour ratings, Castle looks just about dead in the water. It’ll fall below 2.0 in the demo in no time. Inexcusable. It was given every possible chance. I know ABC won’t want to do this, but they really should bump it to another timeslot before mid-season. It hasn’t earned this one.
Yeah Dan. Look at the Castle ratings for 10:30. Oh well.
Pas, was Heroes against House last year when it premiered? No. So for last night, it was indeed in a much harder timeslot. From next week on, it should be about the same.
Can someone answer this for me? These numbers are overnight? How much do they differ from final numbers?
Good the see TBBT do so well. I liked the move to 9:30. I wouldn’t give up on the 10:00 shows either. The football game was tight to the final gun. Still, CSI:Miami should dominate this hour.
Maybe I’m wrong , but next week the schedule will @ 8 pm Heroes , house , DWT , HIMYM correct ? The only strong comeptition @ 9 will be TAHM correct ?
So if I’m right ( and really I have no idea if this is the correct scheduling ) looking to these ratings the 8 pm should be really the killer slot …or not ? This week with the 2 hours premiere the only thing we can say is that Herose is too weak and next week could be worst
UH, Heroes is at 9.
Castle was great and Fillion and Katic were phenomenal.
Anyone who has a problem with Castle’s warm and fuzzy relationship with his daughter needs to get some help.
@Robert:
I’m the same anon.
Yeah, that is what I was tryimg to say. That Castle is not young skewing.
I was commenting on a post of Shelly about ABC/Disney produced stuff. When I was talking about younger skewing I was referring to Grey’s Anatomy. Sorry if it wasn’t clear.
That’s why I said I agree with pisher.
Haha – Dancing was down from last year & had it’s lowest premiere ever…and NBC lost to the other networks as predicted…2 weeks earlier than what I even thought…
Fox has done a well job promoting their shows House and other series evenly except Glee which they EXTREMELY promoted on day one of summer and Dollhouse which received Zero promotion over the summer and which I just saw the first promo for that last night…
though I’m sure NBC is still making money for that slot compared to a series…it’s just that Jay had his one week…I’m curious about the days the shows have re-runs against Leno then….and will LENO be all new or mostly new like late night or is he going to be like daytime TV talk and show re-runs all summer long?
I definitely like the BBT numbers, excellent work by that show. HIMYM opened solidly, given that it spent a season and a half in the “cradle” spot that Accidentally now occupies. And House…I’m not a big fan of that show, but I must applaud their performance. Nicely done.
As for the Heroes/Chuck debate, might I submit that NBC only has two choices on that now. 1) Let Chuck premiere next March as scheduled. 2) Give Mercy on Wednesdays a short leash. If it gets beat by CBS’ comedies, cancel it, give Chuck a full 22-ep ride and move it in so Chuck can get still get in a dozen episodes on this side of the Winter Olympics. Chuck will not win on Monday nights any more than Heroes did. It may do better than Heroes, but it won’t do well enough to get it a fourth season. On Wednesdays, 9 millon and a 3.5 will get you renewed. Chuck won’t be able to do that on Mondays against the big hitters.
Ha! Personal attacks. That’s a good one.
Ok, enough feeding the troll. Hopefully pifeedback will be back up soon.
I was surprised that Jay Leno beat Castle in the ratings last night. I love the show. I think Nathan Fillion and Stana Katic are doing a wonderful job playing their characters.
Poor Heroes..I hope they will show all episodes…
Dario, I don’t think there’s any way NBC won’t show all the episodes, but this will almost certainly be the last season.
I enjoy Heroes. I don’t understand why posters pit Chuck against Heroes. I dislike House because it has one of the meanist characters I’ve ever seen. However, I’d never think, wow, I like So You Think You Can Dance and so I hope House has poor ratings. The risk of watching TV is knowing that some shows you enjoy will never have mass appeal and will be canceled. Toe actively hope a show is canceled is rather petty, IMHO. I think Monday night is loaded with quality shows. I check the web to see how contestants are doing on DWTS and I plan on catching the CBS comedies in reruns. If someone tells me that Dr. Gregory House suddenly became a human being, I’d even try that show again!
NBC should have fired Tim Kring and put Fuller in it’s place. The show is doomed anyway, not even 6 millions, it’s pathetic, NBC is heading the CW way
Hi Bill,
“House” numbers were incredible…problem is that the current FOX development team didn’t come up with a new “House”…instead they give us:
1- “Glee” lost 850,000 viewers in one week. So…after losing 850,000 viewers in one week FOX execs, in a desperation move…order an entire years worth of this High School Musical ripoff. And the iTunes ancillary “net” income it generates is pennies on the dollar…amounts to chump change. ***The Sept. 23rd airing of “Glee” will have further audience/demo erosion. Guaranteed!!
2- “Brothers” – a sitcom starring retired football player Michael Strahan who has NO prior acting or stand-up comedy experience…I hear the only thing worse then this shows writing and concept is Strahans “razor thin” comedy skills. Someones getting their ass fired for greenlighting this one.
3- “Dollhouse” – Was last seasons anemic ratings performer worthy of renewal? Barely drew 3 million with a demo in the 1’s for its season finale!
***When Peter Rice dumps the deadwood in FOX development in a few months he will demand they give him another “House”, “24″, “American Idol”…not a kiddie show that teenagers won’t want over time…like “Flee”…uhh “Glee”.
“The Jay Leno Show” will be to Jay what the “Edsel” was to the Ford Motor Company. Absolute garbage!
“Castle” is a stiff…demo numbers were lousy. While CBS comes up with NCIS, Criminal Minds, The Mentalist, etc…ABC gives us “Castle”…a procedural with no bite and no balls. “Castle” has “developed by out of touch, inept female tv exec” written all over it.
My main man Charlie Sheen still pulling in a 4.4 demo number 7 years into the 9 year run!!!! “Glee” wishes it had…but never will…have a 4.4…ha!
Love,
Emily
emily24, nobody’s given us a new “House” lately, so I can hardly fault Fox development in particular.
Love you too,
Bill
Emily…no offense, but you seem OBSESSED with the failure of Glee…it’s disturbing.
I’ll just keep hope that Castle WILL NOT BE CANCELLED.
I don’t think the low numbers for Heroes has much to do with the quality of the episode last night, I think it had to do with the quality of last year’s finale. The finale last season was a complete slap in the face to the loyal fans of Heroes that it’s not a surprise that most of them abandoned the show entirely. I mean, coming up with a ridiculous way to keep Sylar alive was the final straw for most people. Get it through your skull, Tim Kring. We’re sick of Sylar! Kill him off already!
Wow House premiered really big, Heroes died, and Castle and The Jay Leno show all got the averages I expected. The Big Bang Theory held on to Two and a Half Men well but both will likely do better when facing against Lie To Me.
BJ – Heroes will be at 8PM this season. It WAS on last season at 9. Not this coming one. It’s going to continue to get creamed by everyone except for CW.
Kay because everyone was saying that Heroes was better than Chuck and the ratings proved it. Well the time switch and now Heroes was moved into the time slot from hell and they plumetted. Also they won’t even have to face BBT.
From the NBC release: “Comparisons with NBC’s Monday-through-Friday 10-11 p.m. ET non-sports average over the prior 52 weeks are…”
This strikes me as largely irrelevant. The correct comparison is to what NBC did in the 10-11pm hour on the same night a year ago.
The answer is that they did a 5.0 in the demo last year for the second hour of the Heroes premiere, which means that after one day of the broadcast season Leno is only down -64% compared to last year.
I thought Big bang theory would hit 15 million with but the demo is what i thought it would be.
evah:
I don’t expect “Castle” to ever be a ratings juggernaut but I am really hoping the show will sustain ratings that are good enough to keep it on the air.
I watched the 10-episode first season again during the summer and it really is an entertaining program. The show has great syndication potential if ABC can keep it on the air long enough.
I liked the second season premiere of Castle. As for it not being edgy enough, I have to disagree. It’s edgy in a different way. I like that it’s not all dark and moody but at the same time it’s not all sunshine and light either. It has a nice balance of the two. Our whole family watches and enjoys it and we cross the demographics 9, 15, 17, 38 & 42. I believe it will be around for quite awhile.
I think the market is changing. Younger viewers are turning to alternate media for entertainment. I even turn to alternate media for entertainment. Way to much reality crap on TV these day.
love dancing and watched it for the last few years but i couldn’t watch it last night with the politician on… i think that was a bad idea and alienated some fans. they shouldn’t get political on either side of the political spectrum… at least not with someone on the extreme side
I think Castle is plenty edgy, given that the hero of the piece is a much creepier sociopath than Dexter Morgan. But less upfront about it.
I’m really proud of How I Met Your Mother. Remember how it was almost canceled in the past? I wasn’t sure it could lead off the night but it definitely did.
Castle is an odd one. It’s demo numbers are kind of low but I can’t imagine ABC being upset with almost 10 million viewers for a scripted show at 10 pm. Almost all their 10 pm shows this season are new ones because that slot has not been working for them as of late. Plus, Castle has decent press and good all around media mojo. I’m betting on at least a full season but not ruling out the possibility of a relocation. Dancing is a big lead-in for a medium sized hit. Then again, Dancing was down and Castle stayed on par with last season. So, I’m thinking it’s a pretty stable player.
Castle, bubble show on day 1, baby! The Renew/Cancel Index can’t come back soon enough!
I really enjoy Castle and am a Nathan Fillion fan. Before anyone bashes the numbers for Castle let us wait and see where The Forgotten and Eastwick settle in as numbers comparative to CBS and Jay Leno. I really think that Castle may have the best of the worse numbers for ABC’s slate. Private Practice is really the only player in the 10pm ABC lineup.
nkinsey – Heroes will be against House, Dancing, and HIMYM/Accidentally. It will get destroyed. Trauma will likely get brought down too, but it will probably get a full season though. I would say Trauma would atleast have a shot airing against Lie to Me, but with House’s big numbers Lie to Me will likely get good numbers too. If Dollhouse got a full season and Lie to Me doesnt (like FOX’s midseason schedule suggests) theres something seriously wrong.
Bear in mind, Castle had its best numbers for the first season early on. It had OVER ten million viewers for its S1 premiere, and the week after that. But it fell below 8mil at one point (with Surviving Suburbia as its lead-in).
So no, ABC is not happy, because they were hoping the second season would do better numbers than the pilot. And it did worse than the final episode of last season. It’s going to fall. It may not get moved, because they’ve got nothing ready to replace it–but its current lead-in will finish up in late November, and then we’ll see really low #’s from Castle–which will continue to fall, even with DWTS.
“Castle: Best of the Worst of ABC’s Low-rated crap dramas”
Probably overselling it, but whatever turns you on.
Heroes should have never been renewed for this season. It was DOA last night and ratings will only get worse as the season progresses.
CBS did very well with the comedies and, unfortunately, with CSI: Miami.
ABC looks good, but me thinks Dancing is finally starting to show its age.
HOUSE did huge numbers. Can’t wait to see the episode on DVR tonight.
@nkinsey: Thanks for the correction. The site I use as my tv schedule has the show on 9pm. This being the case, Heroes is quite screwed against House.
I really enjoy Castle and am a Nathan Fillion fan. Before anyone bashes the numbers for Castle let us wait and see where The Forgotten and Eastwick settle in as numbers comparative to CBS and Jay Leno. I really think that Castle may have the best of the worse numbers for ABC’s slate. Private Practice is really the only player in the 10pm ABC lineup.
I do think that Eastwick at least, and probably Forgotten as well, will be well below Castle, and quickly canceled, but that won’t make Castle’s numbers better. I’m not sure why the show doesn’t have a broader appeal, as it seems like it should, but it will probably be on the chopping block as well.
Dan-
You and I are back on the same wavelength once again!
However, I’m honestly not convinced that Trauma will get a full-season pickup. It would be one thing if Heroes was getting the viewership of Season 1, but with Heroes getting 6 mil/ep, I think that Trauma might be looking at the 4-5 mil range.
I do totally agree with you that Lie To Me will be getting a full season order. I actually think that was pre-determined once they paired it up with House for the fall season (same goes for Fringe when they paired it with Bones)- although I will be SHOCKED if they keep it Monday at 9 when 24 comes back (I think Lie to Me might end up Tuesdays at 9 starting midseason).
BJ – Your last comment was both factual and hilarious.
Castle’s numbers are, at the very least, consistent and will only improve over time. Considering that the numbers are more or less the same as the 1st season, one could argue that it has retained its audience, which is what ABC needs… not to mention the who Heat Wave book coming out, ghost-written by someone and credited to Castle
i dont think Castle is going away anytime soon IF it maintains those numbers, but they might re-arrange the schedule a bit
BUT i must say, next Thursday night is going to be interesting… i am pretty sure Grey’s will dominate the 10pm hr, but next week with shows like Project Runway, and Real Atlanta Housewives, Private Practice may not do as well
Sucks about gossip girl. It was a very good episode. Best from the show in a long time.
(I think Lie to Me might end up Tuesdays at 9 starting midseason).
Unless they are moving Idol Wednesday to 8, there’s no way. Glee is going to get the lead-out from Idol. Actually, it might be a really good idea for Fox to move Idol to 8 on Wednesday this year. I know 9 gets bigger numbers, but when combined with Glee, they might make out better all around.
I watched both HEROES and HOUSE last night. I HATED the HOUSE premiere. I found it to be boring and anticlimactic. I really wanted to see the rest of the cast, but no, we have House with that chick that everybody knew would leave by the end of the first episode. HEROES, I found rose in quality, and it kept me on the edge of my seat, but these ratings aren’t very good, sadly.
@Buddy I’m sure HIMYM was helped by Neil Patrick Harris hosting the Emmys this weekend.
@bobby brady I think a 9% drop from HIMYM to Accidentally on Purpose was well within what would be expected. I imagine it would be rather difficult for a new show to premiere higher than an existing one with a fairly consistent following. It may erode next week as new shows tend to do, however it was actually quite good and I think it will speak to the HIMYM crowd.
i love that the tables are back!
but since 70% of ppl werent watching NBC, ABC, CBS last night at 10pm, do we know what they WERE watching? i am quite surprised to hear that… was there a big surge in Monday Nite football ratings? or did people en mass turn on The Rachel Zoe Project or Drop Dead Diva? j/k obv…
Does anyone know if Dancing had its usual over-run? If so, the numbers for Castle are going to drop in the finals.
Holly, it had a 1 minute run over
pisher – every article on this site last March-May that mentioned Castle predicted that the show would be axed after its first year, but ABC’s lack of dramas made me know that they would keep it. Its likely that ABC will give Castle a full year, along with Flashforward. The Forgotten could get additional episodes but it may end up like Eli Stone, and Eastwick will end up like Dirty Sexy Money and flop as well. Everyone needs to look at this schedule and comapre it with last year. 10pm on Tuesdays and Wednesdays had sophomomore dramas (Stone and Money) and they both failed by midseason. Pushing Daisies was an hour long comedy at 8 and I have a feeling the two comedies at 8 this year will perform the same. Since those were all in their second year ABC may give second chances to series this year.
My bet
Castle – will get a full season. Do to ABC’s lack of dramas.
The Forgotten – will likely get additional episodes but could easily be “forgotten” by ABC midseason and replaced (pun intended).
Eastwick – will be ABC’s first cancelled series but likely run out until December .
V – will likely end after it’s 13 episode run.
Flashforward – will get a full year and likely be paired with Lost. Its the most anticipated of ABC’s dramas and has an advantage by airing at 8.
Unlike FOX, CBS or even NBC. ABC at least waits a few months until axing a drama. Their first axed dramas in fall of 08 were Pushing Daisies, Eli STone and Dirty Sexy Money and all 3 ran out until December and returned the following summer. The first of ABC’s dramas axed in fall of 07 was Big Shots and that series ran out (probably due to the strike). The first axed and pulled in 06 was Six Degrees and The Nine and both returned briefly.
@bobby brady I think a 9% drop from HIMYM to Accidentally on Purpose was well within what would be expected. I imagine it would be rather difficult for a new show to premiere higher than an existing one with a fairly consistent following. It may erode next week as new shows tend to do, however it was actually quite good and I think it will speak to the HIMYM crowd.
When TBBT premiered at 8:30 two years ago it built on HIMYM by 1.4 million viewers, and built on HIMYM every single week when it was at 8:30. I think AOP’s debut is not very good.
Holly, there was the usual minute or two.
And to reiterate our hosts’ comments, nobody was watching NBC last year anyway – there’s very little former NBC audience for CBS/ABC to grab. Hell, now given the option of brain-dead CBS procedurals or brain-dead Leno comedy… CBS could lose (brain-dead) audience.
To reiterate: the biggest winner of Leno at 10pm… will be same-day DVR ratings.
Did anyone happen to notice that “The Jay Lame-o Show” bested ONLY two prime time shows last night in both demos and total viewers? And they were….(DRUM ROLL)….BOTH CW SHOWS — OTH & GG! And consensus is that Heroes was disastrous so what does that say for the Leno Show? Even that lousy Heroes show was the only “network” shoes that Leno came EVEN CLOSE to being competitive with. Way to go NBC!
Jaye, I don’t know how you can assume Castle will improve over time, when it’s done the precise opposite of that, under the most optimal conditions imaginable.
Its S2 premiere #’s are LOWER than its S1 finale #’s, and much lower than the #’s it got its first two weeks.
And the half hour ratings really tell the story–it’s heading for ratings well below its S1 nadir. This is the best it can do with DWTS as its lead-in, and Jay Leno’s worst night yet actually skewed younger.
ABC can’t waste that lead-in on this piece of cheese much longer, and without it, Castle is toast.
“Get it through your skull, Tim Kring. We’re sick of Sylar! Kill him off already!”
Sylar is like The Master, Daleks, Cybermen on Doctor Who. Arvin Sloane on Alias, Great Sci-Fi has great recurring and/or regular villains and Sylar is among my favorate villains.
I am looking forward to Redemption, but do agree that the writers do need to end the show. The competition is strong. The writers strike did not help Zach Q. has a future playing Spock in the rebooted Star Trek movies.
No hard poltictis on Stars. Tom Delay show his stuff or at least tried. He should be around for awhile.
As far as Jay Leno is concerned. As long as he pulls a 5 share, that is about equal or better than what he had during his years on Tonight. You have to look at costs and what Jay does is cheeper than a scripted drama or comedy (sitcom or sketch).
Dan, this is factually incorrect — by quite a bit:
every article on this site last March-May that mentioned Castle predicted that the show would be axed after its first year
That’s, just not true. It was true with Dollhouse, but Castle, as I recall crawled back to being on the bubble and then even being predicted for renewal.
With House at 8pm only next week, 2.5 Men and TBBT should rise.
RJ, indeed. I think it quite likely 2.5 Men is back in the 5+ range and over 15 million next week.
Dan, I have said Castle may get a full second season, and finish with 30 eps–basically one long season. It only made the cut last time because it hadn’t been around long enough–you’re right there. ABC keeps giving underperforming dramas a fair chance. And refresh my memory–how many times has this strategy paid off for them in recent years? The other shows you mention are all GONE.
30 episodes for a show that had all the advantages this one was handed on a silver platter is epic fail. But maybe ABC is ready to wise up? You don’t get good television by keeping bad television on the air. Give second chances to shows that EARN them.
On the *Harder/Not* timeslot for Heroes/Chuck, I kind of had the spring line up (when it somehow stopped the bleeding) in mind.
House>24 while TAHM>HIMYM/TBBT (Glad TBBT is beating that unfunny show now). DWTS is in both hour and the CW… nvm ^^
Now Heroes is going up against House/HIMYM-Whatever New Sitcom I can’t remember the name/DWTS.
While House is obviously a powerhouse I doubt it will keep the premiere giga-bump. The “good” news is that it won’t go up against TBBT. Since *it seems* Heroes got no premiere bump (probably the die-hard fan who stuck around), it could easily float around the same demos, or go maybe a little bit (let’s be realistic) up from people who chose House’s premiere.
I’m a fan but if (probably) it is its last season, there won’t be any timeslot to blame. Most of the 3rd Season by itself justifies the ratings.
I’ve nothing against Chuck but I, too, don’t get what’s with bashing other shows hoping it comes back sooner. Spare time much I guess.
I wonder what Dawn Ostroff thinks of the fact that One Tree Hill – in its SEVENTH season – gets better ratings than Gossip Girl.
Then again, the three highest-rated scripted shows on the network – aside from Vampire Diaries – are all holdovers from The WB. She doesn’t seem to like things that were not her idea but look at how much better they perform.
I wonder if even NOW Chuck can do as well as Heroes?
Both shows should end this season. At least Heroes USED to be successful. I won’t say it was good, though. Because I hated every minute I watched. (Just not as much as Chuck).
@Robert,
Dan, this is factually incorrect — by quite a bit:
Kindly do not attempt the cloud the issue with facts.
Craig, on a guess she thinks this: “next week GG won’t face house, and it won’t get better ratings”, last night when BOTH shows faced House, they performed almost exactly the same in the demos. There’s no denying OTH had more viewers, but that doesn’t really matter.
Holly, sometimes I can keep the facts (and factually vs. factual) straight, and sometimes not
Monday Nights for the rest of season
Dancing with the stars 17-20m
Castle will go down 6-9m
House will go down 11-14m
Lie to me 9-12m
Heroes 4-6m
Trauma 5-7m
HIMYM 7-10m
Accidentally Purposed 5-8m
Two and a Half Men 14-16m
The Big Bang Theory 12-15m
CSI Miami 12-15m
Just my guess I think monday night could have some of the best shows on TV including TBBT and HIMYM. And Some of the Worst shows including Trauma and Leno.
NBC bad idea about Leno it has only been 6 days and down to 5 million
At this point, NBC is throwing “Heroes” out with the trash. They offered no plot-line synopsis, merely expecting people to tune in because, as George Costanza would say, “because it’s on TV.” For a show as complicated as it is, I find it odd that they would just throw it on and expect people to watch.
Then, they run those Sprint ads where we’re supposed to care about some made-up backstory. Nobody is watching the actual show, so why would they think we’d want to play along with a cell phone promotion?
I’ve followed it the entire way, but I’m kind of exhausted by now. Between the constantly switching story lines and the commercial breaks every 10 minutes, I’m worn to a thread.
About Heroes
For fans who are bothered by the low ratings, understand this many fans (even the show runners have made no secret about this) have been very disappointed by the quality of the show since season one’s final episode (which was just really weak in my opinion), after being promised change after change to improve their product, many feel that they haven’t. When this happens people tend to walk away and not to come back.
I personally liked the opener this season, but even still I know many who even if the show was very good consistently, wouldn’t trust the writers to maintain that quality.
As for its performance in the ratings, I am sure it will stay for its full season (shortened as it is). Even last year when it was down to the 6 millions it still was one of NBC better performers (and is’t that just sad). And I am curious how much of a budget cut the show took (they mentioned last year it was over 4 million and episode), but to make those numbers work you need a severe budget cut.
Accidentally on Purpose is average. In 2006 The Class’s premiere looked worse because it premiered before HIMYM and got low ratings after a few airings. The Big Bang Theory improved airing after HIMYM and starting the following spring it aired before Mother and did well. Accidentally did drop as expected but not horribly. The series will get a full season or additional episodes 18-22.
Since 2003, CBS either axes their comedies after 1 season (Out of Practice, Courting Alex, The Class, Welcome to the Captain, Worst Week) or after at least four (Everybody Loves Raymond, Still Standing, Yes Dear, The King of Queens). This means that CBS is usually confident in their comedies.
Mark: I’m not as worked up over the ratings as the quality of the show. Too many characters and too much jumping around and way too many commercial breaks makes for difficult viewing.
I noticed that the first half was written by Tim Kring, presumably to get the show off on the right foot. But I don’t think it’s possible to bring back viewers at this point. Even people like me who have been in since day 1 are confused at times.
Castle did about as well as Boston Legal did when its final season premiered after DWTS, a year ago. Better in total viewers, not as well in the demo. DWTS did open higher last season.
But has anybody seen Boston Legal lately?
This simply confirms Castle is already in cancellation territory. But I agree it’ll probably live there a while. Then move into “Shows that didn’t run long enough for syndication” territory.
So here’s my take on the numbers.
2.5 men was disappointing. haven’t watched yet but the show seems to be running out of steam creatively(judging by last season). They should do something to spice things up this year if they don’t want ratings erosion.
TBBT had great numbers. Expect them to stay strong all year, especially if 2.5 men get back on their game.
House: great premiere, but a 2 hour event premiere on a big show should get big numbers. Expect numbers closer to 5.5 next week.
AoP was good enough for a premiere. Next couple weeks will be telling.
Heroes: If they’re weren’t budgets cuts this season, expect large ones next season, or maybe even for the second half. A smaller cast could help focus its storytelling too. NBC can’t afford to just throw away the show despite its audience erosion. Its still a marquee property and NBC is short on those.
CSI: Miami premiered with a 5.2 in 18-49 last year. I guess 4.3 is still pretty strong, though obviously not up to last years premiere.
I’m bemused by the odd notion that 2.5 Men ever had much steam to begin with, creatively speaking. People are just getting tired of the formula, and the kid isn’t as cute as he used to be. It’s the 7th season. Who really expected it to set new benchmarks of popularity and innovation?
I wonder how much the budget for Heroes was cut too, but i don’t think it was that much. This show has a huge cast and they added few more this last episode, while getting rid of only one secondary – Denko. So i think it’s still above 3 millions per episode (also with all those different sets/locations show is jumping around).
As far as quality goes i think it was still subpar, the first hour was terrible bore and while things picked up in second hour it was still merely ok from my perspective.
And the main problem still remainded, the number of subplots the show is juggling, there were like 6 or 7 in those last episodes, way way too many.
Kudos to House for the big numbers and to TBBT for going from strength to strength. As to Heroes, I’m not a fan but I don’t think the numbers were as disaterous as some think. Last year at the end they were getting demos of 2.8-3.0 and total audiences of about 6.5 million. Last night’s numbers were reasonably close to that, I think their fan base is giving them a chance, what they do with it is the question, do the ratings creep up, stay the same or continue to bleed. Remember the demos last night of 2.7/8 are still better than NBC’s average of 2.4 last year.
Maybe NBC can talk the NFL into adding another night or two of primetime football on their network. That would be the only way they can win nights anymore.
Pisher, just shut up. Castle will survive.
Farscapefan, for the record–were you also saying that about Farscape? Like about six years ago?
Julia-
I’m thinking that once FOX cuts back the 2-hour Tuesday eps of AI, they’ll run Lie to Me at 9, and Glee at 9 on Wednesday. I agree with you that with Glee at 9, it would position FOX stronger than moving it to 8PM with Idol after it. And I think that is what they will do.
I watched Heroes and was a bit disappointed. I just didn’t feel like the story arc moved forward enough for me. It lost the magic it had during the season 1. I wonder myself how Chuck would of done if it was on at 8pm.
I knew DWTS would drop some because there just isn’t anyone exciting to watch this time around. 16 couples is a bit to much to watch and keep track of.
“Anon, Castle does not pull in younger audiences. At least not relatively speaking. CSI: Miami had commanding leads with both 18-49, and 18-34, and even Jay Leno beat Castle with 18-34. From 10:30pm the 18-34 ratings were 2.7./8 for CSI: Miami, 1.5/5 for Leno and 1.2/4 for Castle.”
Ya know, I love Fillion from Firefly & Dr. Horrible. It would be great to see this guy become a big star. But as for why Castle isn’t doing as well as it should…..I blame ABC. There should of been more promotion. Why was Fillion on more talk shows? He was great on The View.
So, yeah Pisher is right. It is going to be canceled because that is what ABC does. (Pushing Daisies anyone?)
Craig, I’ve never been a fan but One Tree Hill has always had a very loyal tween/teen fanbase that it’s built up over several seasons, whereas Gossip Girl has been on for less than 3 years and people were already starting to get fed up with the show by its second season. That, combined with the fact that Gossip Girl is no longer set in high school has probably eroded what fanbase it had left even more. The show was a good guilty pleasure when it started till I realized that it keeps repeating its storylines constantly with different characters and then I got bored and quit watching.
Chucksmom, can I ask–what alternate dimension do you live in?
Because in the one I’m in, Castle got easy timeslots, great lead-ins, tons of (incredibly low-rated) repeats, and all the promotion it should have needed. ABC has treated it incredibly well. And it hasn’t repaid that favor it’s been shown at all.
Fillion has failed in everything he ever did. TV shows, films, whatever. If he’s the lead, it will tank. And that’s what Castle is doing.
Dr. Horrible is Neil Patrick Harris. Fillion is the VILLAIN of that silly bit of online cultishness most people will never see. Okay, he’s the hero, but the hero is the villian. Well, you know. The role Fillion was born to play–a guy who puts up a big heroic front, but is ultimately proven a fraud. And a loser.
Those House numbers are crazy good.
I enjoyed Heroes last night. Watched it on my DVR after the football game. I thought it was the best premier they’ve had since the first season premier. Story was also simple and not ridiculous like in years past. If it is the last season, hopefully they can restore at least a little respectability back to the franchise.
Love the big bang theory. No doubt that it’s going to do well following Two in a Half Men.
And Pushing Daisies didn’t get canceled nearly soon enough. ABC keeps bad overrated dramas on life support too long, and it’s costing them. They have to learn to recognize these turkeys BEFORE they green light them, or they might as well hang it up.
Perhaps Americans have problems with Canadians playing the main parts on American show… Personally I think Nathan is really great actor and I love him as Castle. But I’m a European.
pisher, cross-contamination, social media platforms, and Nathan Fillion fans.
if the numbers stay around the same ratings (and the other 10pm shows do bad, which is likely, considering some of the competition), ABC will probably give Castle the additional episodes or even a full 2nd season, especially if the Heat Wave novel gets decent sales
????? Farscapefan, MOST of my favorite TV actors are Canadians.
Fercryinoutloud, Shatner AND Nimoy are Canadians! Lorne Greene was Canadian! Peter Jennings, our most popular news anchor for years was Canadian! The list is endless! We LOVE Canadian actors here, and they star in popular American TV shows all the freakin’ time.
And most Europeans don’t know who Fillion is, and if they did, they wouldn’t care. Serenity flopped worse overseas than it did in the U.S.
Stop making up excuses.
Fillion fails because Fillion SUCKS.
DWTS needs to pick a more exciting cast next season. thats all I have to say
Jaye, I have no idea what you just said–except you are now banking on BOOK sales to save Castle?
FYI, it’s available for presale on Amazon–it’s about a week away from being released. And it’s ranked #440 in books.
I really doubt ABC is even paying attention. But one more bit of proof they tried every promotional gag they could think of.
This show just can’t be sold.
House sucks
Pisher – Castle will survive as long as the other new dramas do worse than it. And with the exception of FlashForward all new dramas will likely do worse. Like Cupid and The Unusuals did last season on tuesdays and wednesdays Forgotten and Eastwick will likely do the same. Since Forgotten has limited competition and a dancing lead in it may survive.
nkinsey – Currently Human Target and Past Life are scheduled for Tuesdays and Wednesdays at 9n after Idol. Glee is scheduled to premiere following Idol once Past Life ends. If Lie to Me is renewed for a full year it will likely slide into fridays at 9 in which will be the only other available slot if Dollhouse gets axed.
Whoops, just noticed that Heroes lost 500,000 viewers between the first and second hours, that can’t be good.
DWTS was down from last year’s premiere, I undestand it was a significant drop, something like 20%. That makes two reality shows to have big drops on their debut (Survivor was the other) is this a trend or just two shows having slow starts.
right…….and thats why Pushing Daisies alum, Kristin Chenoweth, didnt win the emmy sunday… oh wait..?
Pushing Daisies was a great show, but just didnt have the numbers to back it up and ABC stood by it until it couldnt anymore
farscapefan, I have a little news for you… Most Americans don’t know that Canadians even exist. So believe me, they don’t have a freaking clue there is Canadian actors in American shows, hell, they probably don’t even know some “US” show have been and are still made in Canada… Everything that touch US soil is US, end of the line… ^^ No arm to anyone by the way
Right, Jaye–an actor winning an Emmy proves a show is good. So William Shatner winning the Emmy for Boston Legal but not Star Trek means Boston Legal is better than Star Trek. Actually, given that Chenoweth didn’t even play the lead, I’m making your argument sound stronger than it really is.
Pushing Daisies got horrible ratings, got renewed, got horrible ratings again, got canceled. Why is this so hard for people to understand?
You won’t understand it about Castle either. Which doesn’t even have the excuse of being offbeat. It’s an old-skewing formulaic piece of crypto-misogynistic rot, based around one of the lamest most self-serving hams of our time.
Dan, it doesn’t matter what the new shows do. Castle will be condemned before next fall.
Jaye- Yes, Pushing Daisies was a GREAT show and Kristin has a HUGE following! That show should of been on cable IMHO.
Pisher- ABC didn’t promote Castle enough. I’m sorry but sending your lead actor to a silly Apple iPhone store to promote your show is just lame. I think ABC gave up on this show after it saw how poorly it did on repeats. They should of had him on The View again or Regis & Kelly. I mean, they are the same network & he was already in NYC?
I dunno, maybe Nathan Fillion doesn’t cross over from Sci-Fi very well. Bruce Willis seems to have the same effect so he stay in the Sci-Fi genre.
So what’s the deal, pisher? Your hard-on against Nathan seems to run a lot deeper than simply not liking an actor. Did he steal your lunch money, or something?
pisher, u know how American Idol makes their songs available on iTunes, have concerts and whatnot?
thats more or less cross-contamination. it allows viewers the full experience of “interacting” with the contestants.
with the Castle novel as “written by Richard Castle,” it could essentially save the show if the book becomes successful i.e.
ppl read book –> google author –> find out its a tv show –> watch show –> higher ratings
not to mention, with social media i.e. Twitter, Facebook, it could keep fans interested and/or gain more fans.
ABC AND Cbs should be happy at 10 they crused Jay Leno
not to mention, ABC isnt known for its formulaic cop/mystery/murder shows… it would take a while for a following to build if they are trying to go down that route AND if its against big time competition on CBS
sad to see Heroes numbers low. It was a great season opener, in my opinion, but I know that it’s no fun to say that any episode of Heroes is good.
O well, it might end up being the last season, but I’ll enjoy it while I can. And won’t turn into some crazy fanatic like those Dollhouse/TSCC/Moonlight/Chuck fans.
did you see the total veiws for fox over 16 cbs over 12 Abc over 14 miion buy the looks of this people were waching tv last night
chucksmom, well it may have something to do with her Broadway stats… lol and she’s going to be on at least 1 episode of Glee. im so excited
and no, pisher, winning an emmy doesnt make an show good, but winning an emmy means that the actor played the hell out of the character on that show, and THAT acting ability should make the show at the very least watchable.
not to mention, just become a show has good ratings does not mean the show is good… i mean, at one point Jerrfy Springer was popular (yrs and yrs ago but still during that trashy, fighting my-husbands-really-a-tranny-but-i-never-knew-it bit) and most people would never consider that to be “good tv”
So late that the only thing fun to write about – when and if Castle will get the axe – has been masticated to death. In a way, it seems cruel to expend vitriol, bile and other precious fluids on basically a decnt well-meaning show which probably would have succeeded in the mid nineties, Murder She Wrote era. So I’ll save it for the ABC shows I really hate … isn’t their comedy block tonite? Wedensday? … over 220 hits. And over unsurprising news. I always pick the right vehicles to hitchhike with.
Dan-
I would be VERY surprised if Lie to Me ends up on Fridays next year. The only way I see that happening is if its second season is dying on Monday nights this fall. I could see them letting the new Tuesday show run its course and then putting Lie to Me on after its run. That way, FOX has a strong line of more first-run episodes than other guys.
Here’s how I could see March/April for FOX (what would probably be their strongest option based on what they ordered):
Mondays – House/24
Tuesdays – AmerIdol/Lie to Me
Wednesdays – AmerIdol/Glee
Thursday – Bones/Fringe
Friday – Does it really matter?
Saturday – Cops/AMW
Sunday – Animation Domination (aka Simpsons/Seth x3)
If they insist on airing ‘Til Syndication (OOPS! I meant ‘Til Death), I STILL say Sundays 7-8p should be where they end up.
As a DWTS, too bad the ratings went down. Hopefully tonight’s numbers will be better!
6th season of house and still going storng i think Lie to me will do wonders next week…
*fan
FYI: PIFeedback is back up
jay, I’m sure there will be plenty to write about in addition to Castle’s situation. The TV business supplies an endless series of hopeful shows. Some make it and some don’t.
Two and a Half Men still had huge ratings, though. The show will get another season right, on CBS?
Heroes did what could reasonably be expected of it given the performance (critically and commercially) of the last two seasons, anyone who expected it to return big was living in dreamland. As it is I think using last nights numbers to predict the future (or lack thereof) of the show isn’t the greatest route to take purely because realistically it was always going to return low, the real test will be whether or not the show can reverse its momentum and grow from that 2.9 or whether it will fall again. For what its worth I’d predict a fall on the evidence of what I saw from the first two episodes but we’ll see what happens.
Elsewhere House returns huge. I’ve not watched the first episodes yet but I’m looking forward to catching it. It’ll be interesting to see how big the drop-off will be next week because it seems unlikely House can retain a 6+ next week but stranger things have happened I guess. I’m also very interested to see how the House/Lie To Me combo does for Fox next week. And yes Dancing… was down but those numbers are still nothing to turn your nose up at, Castle on the other hand has some issues. Hopefully it’ll grow a little next week when CSI: Miami drops off from its return. But boy, oh boy does CBS have it easy at 10PM this year.
Hear that thud? That’s Leno’s new show crashing. I predict it’ll be gone in a year or two.
Well, this is probably the last season of Heroes.
This is exactly what happened with Prison Break S04. Take a look:
Heroes S04E01-02 – 2.8/7, 6.27mil
Prison Break S04E01-02 – 2.6/7, 6.48mil
After that, the first 16 episodes of Prison Break S04 averaged at 2.2/5 and 5.66 million viewers, at that point the show moved to Friday and averaged at 3.198 million viewers and a 1.0/4 in the 18-49 demo.
wow, heroes is virtually unwatched. though im starting to like heroes again, this might be it’s last season
jay leno show is also virtually ditched.. so im predicting 6-7-ish million viewers for the premiere of trauma next week, might be wrong
while dancing with the stars 2 hrs premiere is down from last year, castle is only benifiting from dancing with the stars, abc is also in danger, …lost is ending, desperate housewives was falling last season, they need to find a new hit
accidentally in purpose is also in danger 9 million viewers is a decent number, but too bad the show is on cbs
House – intriguing story, great demos – but has he changed just a little bit? If not, neither my wife or I will be too happy…
…DWTS – my wife and I agreed Heroes was a better choice – and we both hate Heroes! (Of course, we both watched House
) The ratings, well… 
TaaHM – my wife loves it, I can tolerate it, and we both missed it, thanks to Hugh Laurie (but she’ll catch it in syndication in a year or so)…and TBBT, well, she can tolerate it, I can barely do so, and it won’t matter, since Chuck Lorre is immune to Tribbles
Castle – my wife said five stars, I said four – so it will be cancelled in six weeks, to be replaced by Surviving Abdul-lia…
…Leno – frankly, my dear…well, you know the rest :p
…and I prefer Ted Koppel to either Leno or Letterman, or Kimmel, or Conan (vroom vroom party starter notwithstanding), or Ferguson, or Daly (Carson, not Tyne, whom I did like in Judging Amy
)
@ Julia3
2 more seasons for sure since charlie sheen signed on for another 3 years at the end of the 6th season.
I’m sad to see Heroes falling, I really do love the show! TBBT was amazing! HIMYM did good considering its time change! Accidentally on Purpose did pretty good, I enjoyed the show last night.
Oh man, I was wondering when pisher would make his presence known here. I read the pifeedback forums last year and his jihad against Nathan Fillion was ridiculous. Makes you wonder what Fillion ever did to him.
Samuel your Heroes/Prison Break comparison is slightly flawed given the different networks the two shows air(ed) on. Whilst NBC won’t be overjoyed with a mid-high 2 they’re not really in a position to turn their nose up at it either, unless things dramatically change for them this season. Heroes will have to drop lower than a 2.5 to not finish its run on Monday nights I would have thought.
let the nay sayers come out of the woodwork! Leno is here to stay people……Stop your whining and accept it.
Heroes is still on the air? Why?
It took me about 4 episodes to realize it’s a show that would never go anywhere. Such a shame too. It’s a show full of freaking SUPERHEROES. How do you screw that up? Well, just watch Heroes for the answer.
Gossip Girl is dead. One Tree hill slipped slightly from last week’s season premeire, while Gossip Girl fell 0.5 million viewers and i think the demo number went down too.
god Dawn is so stupid. give the too shows that actually were able to hold stable numbers and almost exact same ratings a time switch and you screw up everything. Now OTH gets all the rating and GG is thrown under the bus against 2.5 Men, Big Bang, and Dancing, not a good time for Gossip Girl apparently, but One Tree Hill sure didnt have to hard of a time in that timeslot. and now it’s doing the same, and better in the 8pm slot that Gossip Girl. sucks for CW. just another show to add to their rating disaster.
as for Leno, these kinda number will be regular throughtout most fo the season, since Mondays obviously will be brought down by Heroes, it might be a decent leadin from Biggest Loser and Thursdays because of the comedy block, which are now the only semi-decent shows left on NBC.
House would do so much better at the 9:00 pm slot, but FOX needs it to lead into shows such as Lie to Me.
Does anyone remember a few years back when Deal or No Deal and Heroes were achieving pretty amazing numbers? Ah, those were the days…
Reading your comments, I don’t think you watched CSI: Miami last night but it was amazing. I don’t have the right words to describe it. I’m 17 and I enjoy this show more than other ‘teen shows. TBBT- that wasn’t one of their best episodes last night. Accidentally on purpose was funnier. Castle had pretty good episode but if it was 3 stars- CSI:Miami made 5 with their 1997 episode.
Last season of Heroes I hope. Last season should have been its last. Not sure what’s going on with Gossip Girl, I say next season is its last and OTH should have been over years ago
Pisher, seriously? Do you have some kind of personal feud going on with Fillion or something? Out of all the other suck-worthy shows that are likely to get canceled you chose this one to go on and on about?
Heroes was great last night. Lots better than last season. I think some fans are still numb from last year. If this is the last season, my on hope is that the ending is done well and that the fans get some satisfaction. I am glad Heroes is back this year just to fix last season.
Nice to see huge numbers for House again.
And I’m very glad HIMYM did well on its 8pm slot with intense competition, I hope they maintain that well. I do hope the raves on NPH on the Emmys would help raise the profile of the show.
AOP did okay. 2.5 Men and TBBT is perfect combination indeed, I hope they will rise next week with House out of the way.
I’m happiest about seeing the tables back!
Impressive figures for House. Im from Australia and this show was the biggest show to come from the US, Season 1 – 4 outrated CSI, Greys and NCIS as our biggest US Import. It was also number 1 or 2 in 18 – 49 demo for the week accross all network telecast. Then Season 5 was “fast-tracked” the term used down here when our network airs a show within a week or less of its US telecast) in the same slot against the same comp (criminal minds) and it just tanked. Went from 1st in its slot to 4th with no explaination. Hopefully Channel Ten can reluacnh it, cos its an awasome show, and Fox has done a great job in its promos, something I hope Ten copy. CSI had the same strange phenominom here, while 2 and a Half Men, Criminal Minds and Bones (which were summer shows cos they rated bad are now timeslot winners in ratings season). NCIS is the in thing here at the moment, and is once again getting fasttracked next tuesday (1 Week from the US) as is NCIS: LA wednesday (House’s old Slot).
oh i forgot to say. CBS should have the lineup of
How I Met Your Mother
Rules Of Engagemnet
Two and a Half Men
Big Bang Theory
CSI: Miami
That would be alot better. And have Accidently on Purpose on Wednesday with New Chritine as they would probably go better together.
When will the Renew/Cancel Index come back?
I miss it!
Hmmm, maybe I should continue to go by Other Dan or Dan2 since there seems to be a Dan that posts much more than me. I agree that this cite was predicting Castle would stay towards the end of the season when its ratings started to improve. I think the only show this cite was surprised by was Dollhouse, but I could be wrong about that.
Heradite:
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/09/22/wheres-the-renewcancel-index-dvr-viewing-season-to-date-ratings/
To the Chuck maniacs.
Please stop bringing Chuck into the discussion. Stop it.
Chris & Josh-
I’m guessing that Pisher is some jilted ex-girlfriend of Nathan Fillions.
one tree hill stayed okay especially with House on, Gossip Girl not so lucky.
He’s been married for quite a few years, so you just accused him of adultery. Classy.
Oh- so he did steal your lunch money!!!
Fillion isn’t married.
how i met your mother was awesome
accidentally on purpose was one of the worst things i’ve ever seen on tv
put TBBT next to HIMYM again
Here’s a thought. House is one of those established Behemouths that will have good ratings on whatever day it will be on. How about couple it with Dollhouse on Friday and give some competition to CBS
CHUCK OWNS!!! EVERY OTHER SHOW IN THE WORLD SUCK!!!! CHUCK WILL COME
BACK AND KICK EVERY OTHER SHOWS ASSES!!!!!! TV WILL ONLY AIR CHUCK EPISODES EVERY DAY!!!!! SCREW HOUSE!!!! EVERY SHOW IS SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE OF AI!!!!! SCREW AI!!!!!!
GO CHUCK GO!!!!!!!!
nkinsey – FOX already announced their potential midseason schedule. While the schedule is subject to change (as it always has drastically) This season, everything should stay the same.
Here’s what I think will happen
Monday
8:00 House
9:00 24
House did great on ondays and I’m sure it will be kept to help 24.
Tuesday
8:00 American Idol
9:00 Human Target
Human Target already has a scheduled premiere for sunday January 17, 2009 with the series airing regularly beginning January 20 and its unlikely that will change.
Wednesday
8:00 American Idol
9:00 Lie to Me/Glee
FOX already has another series, Past Life scheduled for 9:00. While Past Life doesnt have a premiere date, its possible that the show will
air beginning March. If thats the case than Lie to Me could air at 9:00 following Idol until then. If not FOX may move it to fridays like they have done with other dramas. But Glee is also scheduled to air in that slot.
Thursday
8:00 Bones
9:00 Fringe
To be consistent, FOX will keep Bones and Fringe in their respective slots, throught the season.
Friday
8:00 Brothers
8:30 Til Death
9:00 Lie to Me or Past Life
I’m confident that Brothers and Til Death will stay in their slots throughout the year. Lower ratings are expected for fridays and FOX has put a lot of money into new Til Death. Brothers will liekly be renewed (probably because by being a lead in, it will get higher ratings than Til Death) in which case it will not move. Dollhouse will be axed so the 9:00 slot will be free for either Past Life or Lie to Me. If FOX wants to stick with Lie to Me and help it out again, it may put it behind Idol at 9 until Glee returns to the slot later in the season. In that case FOX could put Past Life on fridays as a slot they put new series they may not like as much.
Sunday
7:30 American Dad
8:00 The Simpsons
8:30 Sons of Tucson
9:00 Family Guy
9:30 The Cleveland Show
Sundays will likely stay the same. Once Sons of Tucson premieres Cleveland will move to 9:30 and American Dad will shift to 7:30. Tucson will likely premiere in March 2010.
Bottom line. Sundays, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays midseason schedule will liekly stay the same. Normally a new midseason drama would get replaced but both are airing after Idol so they should do well. Lie to Me should retain a lot of House this year, so if it does get a full year the series could temporarily move to Tuesdays at 9:00 in which case Past Life would take Dollhouse’s 9:00 friday slot. I agree that unless Lie to Me gets a full season but really doesnt do well it may be moved to Tuesdays to air after Idol again. I don’t think FOX would move that to fridays but then what would air fridays after Dollhouse gets axed??
and TSCC fans are nuts. Chuck sucks
Wow, I could have sworn I read about Fillion being married somewhere.
If I were remotely interested in his personal life, I’d have known he was single.
So thanks for proving I just think his acting sucks, Josh.
I actually meant that Idol and Target will air wednesdays while Idol and Past Life will air tuesdays. If FOX doesn’t want to move either drama to fridays, after Dollhouse is axed they could put the schedule like this.
Tuesdays
8:00 American Idol
9:00 Lie to Me (Jan-March)/Past Life (March-May)
Wednesdays
8:00 American Idol
9:00 Human Target (Jan-March)/Glee (March-May)
Fridays
8:00 Brothers
8:30 Til Death
9:00 Kitchen Nightmares
If FOX wants to test out all 4 dramas they may air Lie to Me following Idol until all the episodes air, and then premiere Past Life on tuesdays. Human Target is already planned to air at 9:00 wednedays following Idol so I doubt that will change, and Glee is scheduled to follow Idol by March. FOX could take advantage of both post Idol slots. While not sabotaging any show with the Friday slot, FOX could use that slot for a new Kicthen Nightmares season. The show hasn’t aired since last January so FOX could easily just burn it off in the 9:00 slot. I just dont see Dollhouse getting a full year. FOX has too many dramas and with Glee and Fringe already renewed for a full year, and Lie to Me seeming like a lock to be renewed too, I dont see any room for Dollhouse. As for the veteran series, hopefully FOX leaves Mondays and Thursdays the way they are for midseason.
Memo to the Castle bashers:
Marc Berman did not list it as one of last night’s Losers.
The chemistry between Castle and Beckett is excellent and Castle
is one of the few positive portrayals of a father on TV.
Kudos to Stana Katic’s makeup artist and hair stylist, a definite improvement over last season.
The show retains it’s good blend of humor/procedural from season one.
I really think due to ABC barely having any dramas, Castle will get a full season.
I think ABC really wants a successful procedural and Castle is their best bet right now. It’s never going to be a hit, but it has a chance to be a steady utility player. As long as it does better than The Forgotten and Eastwick, it has a good chance of staying. If either of those hits, Castle is on the line.
The question is how did TJLS do compared to how NBC did on last season on this night and time? They got roughly six million last night and a 18-49 rating that NBC said would be a “home run”. They outperformed “Castle” with that demo at 10:30. After a big premiere week Leno is now up against the new and returning shows. I don’t think anybody expected it would maintain the huge ratings it saw most of last week. My guess is that it will rate better than many shows on the NBC line up and cost less and NBC will be happy about it.
Castle is pretty mediocre, and this is coming from a Fillion fan and someone who tries hard to love it.
But it doesn’t have to be good to get decent ratings. I think it’ll continue to get the same middle of the road ratings it always has and will probably be with us for a while.
pisher,
Either you have a vendetta against Fillion or you sound like you do.
If you don’t mean to sound that way then it might be worthwhile to reassess your posting style in regards to him.
If you do mean to sound that way, then you are quite effective in conveying your intentions.
Holly – If you want to know for sure, compare it to the last few years. In fall 2006 What About Brian aired in the 10pm slot with no Dancing lead in and it did well (against Studio 60 and CSI Miami). In fall 2007 after The Bachelor ended, October Road did badly in the slot but it aired after Notes From The Underbelly after Dancing ended. Boston Legal did pretty decently last fall and it aired after Samantha Who?. Now that theres no comedy at 9:30 Castle should maintain ratings after Dancing and keep getting second. The Forgotten has a better advantage than Eli Stone this year because this year theres no SVU and Without a Trace competition for the drama to face. Theres The Good Wife and Jay Leno, and since the shows are both new The Forgotten should fare well. Eastwick, with a low rated lead in will flop like Dirty Sexy Money and every other show ABC aired at 10pm. (Invasion, The Nine, Dirty Sexy Money, Cashmere Mafia, Men in Trees, Life on Mars).
My guess is
Castle will do as good or better than Boston Legal (8-9 million)
The Forgotten will do better than Eli Stone (7-9) million
Eastwick will do at the same level or worse than Dirty Sexy Money (4-6 million)
Heroes was’nt as bad as I thought it would be, it actually kept me awake and I watched the whole thing. If It can manage to do that every week for me than Ill keep watching. I used to be in Love with heroes, The first season was completely amazing…then season 2 came and ruined eevrything. Heores need to find their Root, which is ordinary people with extradinary abilities, no one wants to watch an x-men tv show, we need to see them being regular people, suffering with these differences they have from everyone else. That would be good to see not cheesy wanna be action type of storylines. All in all I woll continue to watch heores
Dan,
I still don’t see Dollhouse’s cancelation being as much of a lock as you do.
As I’ve stated before, I think that other factors (such as the fact that it is so much less expensive and that everything that Fox sticks on Fridays fails miserably) legitimately will contribute to the decision of whether to cancel or renew it.
In a recent post I saw that Nick C believes that it has a chance of renewal too, and based on my limited experience he seems to know what he’s talking about.
It still could be canceled if ratings are terrible, which might happen. But bringing in so many genre actors, such as half the cast of BSG, Ray Wise, etc may be enough to keep it from losing any viewers.
Imo, the odds are 50-50 and I’m very much waiting to see what happens in it’s first 2 weeks. I would also guess that Fox is wary that anything else that they might stick on Fridays will wind up bringing in numbers that are no better and that may affect their decision making.
As a Chuck fan,
I am DARN glad that it didn’t premier last night. In that timeslot I think that it wouldn’t have done much better than Heroes did.
House’s numbers are quite impressive, especially when compared to Fox’s performance last year on Mondays at 8:00. They achieved more than double the results, both in total viewers and ratings/share.
Re: Heroes,
I’m not surprised by those numbers and anticipate them getting worse next week. I am sure that some people checked in to the premier, but did not see enough to bring them back.
As with many others, I used to be a fan, but have been underwhelmed for awhile. Still, I did check out last nights 2 hour episode. Based only on that, I felt that it wasn’t the worst that I have seen and that there was room to think that it might improve. But then I stepped back and realized that that was also how I felt with the premier last year (which didn’t work out imo).
The two biggest weaknesses for me are intertwined and those are 1) That very little of what we saw last night doesn’t seem a rehash of something that the show has already done before. 2) Some (maybe many) of these characters just don’t seem interesting to me any more and it feels very forced to continue to bring them together.
In assessing the current situation then they have:
- Claire going to college
- Parkman acting very unlikable and starting to lose his mind
- Sylar taunting Parkman
- Nathan acting crazy (because he’s really Sylar)
- Angela worrying over Nathan
- Peter not caring about anything other than an obsessive mission
- Hiro in trouble again as now it looks like he’s dying
- Ando not doing much of anything important
- Tracy killing some people on a deranged and obsessive mission until she suddenly is convinced to knock it off.
- Noah. A lot of angst there, but at least he actually did something.
- Some interesting new characters like Samuel Sullivan.
At least they eliminated a few characters from Seasons past, such as Suresh, but I’d argue that they need to go much much further. Just on paper, how many of those plotlines sound legitimately interesting?
Not very many imo and I’d recommend taking the new characters, a SMALL group of the existing ones, Noah and 1-3 of the 9 others and fire the rest. I’m sure that that would save some money (and at his site NickC mentioned that one of the things that could help the show is reducing it’s expensive cast), but more importantly, it would tighten the focus of the show up by a heck of a lot and force the writers to try to think up some new stories instead of continually recycling the same crap.
At this point, I don’t know if many (or any) who left would be willing to give it another chance, but at least that way they could try to stop the losses amongst the remaining viewers.
Regarding Jay Leno,
I still think that it’s too early to tell. I felt that it was a given that he would do best last week up against very weak competition and I’d guess that he would do worst this week, when I’m sure that many people are sampling the premiers among his competition.
Some people won’t enjoy those new shows and will most likely turn back to Jay in the weeks to come. I don’t know how many, but for me that’s the big question regarding that show.
As for Castle,
I like, but don’t love, the show and would like to see it continue. This first week doesn’t look great, but it’s not a failure (imo) either. I’m guessing that much will depend on how it performs in subsequent weeks. If it is able to retain this audience then I think that it will be extended at least through the end of the Season, but if it can’t, then it will definitely be in jeopardy.
AO – Naturally I would agree with you, and if this were ANY other season in the past 5 years I’d agree but FOX has soooo many dramas
Besides veterans 24, House, and Bones…here are other dramas besides Dollhouse
Fringe
Lie to Me
Glee
Human Target
Past Life
With all of these shows likely to be midseason schedule. How could FOX keep Dollhouse? Maybe order additional episodes in the friday slot, but with so many dramas on the schedule (and all performing better than Dollhouse) it would have to be axed. This scenario was like last year where around early October I tried to figure out between all of ABC’s sophomore dramas, which one would be axed (Pushing Daisies, Private Practice, Dirty Sexy Money, Eli Stone) turns out 3 were axed. Last year beginning in the fall FOX didnt have any new well performing dramas, besides Fringe, which is why they renewed Terminator for a full year.
Also House does well where ever its put. Terminator and Prison Break did horribly on mondays.
Now if every other drama from this fall (House, Lie to Me, Bones, Fringe, Glee) is expected to return (as well as 24 and new dramas Human Target and Past Life) How can they afford renew Dollhouse.
Dan, You do make a very valid point.
My main hesitation is that I really think that Fox is looking at Friday’s differently now (or at least they are hoping to). In the same way that Sundays seem to be treated as a a unique night that is devoted to comedy. Again, I could be wrong or the ratings may turn out SO bad that Fox rethinks their position, but for now that is what I believe.
Meanwhile, to try to do my best to guess what Fox might do, here’s what I believe to be their current Spring schedule:
House
24
American Idol
Past Life
American Idol
Human Target/Glee
Bones
Fringe
Brothers/’Til Death
Dollhouse
As a comedy, I’m guessing that Sons of Tucson would be a natural fit for whichever of the two 8:00 Friday 1/2 hour shows does the worst.
Based on the above schedule, the back 9 of Lie to Me looks to be the only show that needs to find a home. Though perhaps I am overlooking something?
If I were Fox then this would be a good problem to have and what would make the most sense for me for me is to take those shows that only have 9 more episodes remaining and pair them, so that the back 9 of one would start in January and run to mid-March and then the back of another would take over and go from late March to the end of May/beginning of June.
Angelsgal – If Accidentally ends early, then mondays will look like that. I dont see Accidentally moving to 8:30 wednesday though. I would think it would be more likely that Rules would replace Gary (so two veterans would air on wed. But its possible Accidenatlly could be moved.
AO – Your not overlooking anything. That schedule is dead on as well as Lie to Me being the only series not present. However, That schedule is only tentative and if ratings after House are good, Lie to Me was left off but it just could easily return. FOX usually presents its midseason schedule as just an outline. I dont see Sons of Tucson replacing Brothers or Til Death. Death is likely to do worse than Brothers but I really think both will stay. Sons is more likely to air mondays at 8:30 sandwiched between the more compatible Simpsons and Family Guy.
I believe FOX’s planned midseason schedule this year will look closer to their actual midseason schedule than any other year. From their current midseason schedule I believe that Sundays, Mondays, Wednesdays, Thursdays and Fridays (8-9) will stay the same. Tuesdays may have Lie to Me initially airing after Idol and then being replaced by Past Life. While Wednesdays may have Human Target airing from January until Glee replaces it. Lie to Me will have aired around 9 episodes by December. A full season will have the series having 13 episodes. I could see some of those airing after Idol but once Past Life premieres, Lie could shift to fridays at 9. FOX could premiere Past Life at 9 on fridays and put Lie to Me after Idol Tuesdays.
So like I said before the schedule would be like this
Tuesdays
8:00 American Idol
9:00 Lie to Me/Past Life
Wednesdays
8:00 American Idol
9:00 Human Target/Glee
These shows will likely share the same slot however, its very possible one could be moved to fridays.
Finally watched the HEROES premiere on the DVR. Liked the first season a lot, was disappointed and let down with the last two years. For whatever it’s worth I felt the premiere was terrific. Plots were streamlined, the core story dumped the endlessly tired company-conspiracy angle and put the Sylar element in another direction, and the new characters were interesting — or at least a great deal different than what we’ve seen over the last couple of years.
Maybe it’s too late for it to gain new viewers, sure. But it was a superb episode taken for what it is.
Dan,
Lie to Me could return on Mondays, but 24 has been a fixture there for so long that I would think that it would have to do quite well to displace it. Also, in past years Fox has liked airing 2-3 two hour blocks of 24. Leaving it on Monday would:
1) Keep it in a familiar place where audiences would be most likely to find it.
2) Allow it to displace House on occasion, but considering that House would only have a partial season left, then that strategy would work perfectly.
3) Where else would they move 22 new episodes of 24? The only other option I think possible would be Thursday, and while I think that it could work, that is a big change, especially if Bones and Fringe actually find some success there. Fox has struggled with Thursdays and even if those shows do modestly well, then I think that Fox may want to leave them where they are and try to build on their gains.
So I think that Monday’s works best for 24, with House airing when 24 doesn’t need 2 hours. I could see Fox airing Lie To Me in House’s slot after it finishes, but that’s probably not too likely imo.
I am surprised that you think that Fox might consider a one hour comedy block on Mondays. Both for the reasons I mentioned above and that Simpsons/Family Guy seem pretty entrenched on Sundays. Perhaps they might place Sons of Tucson in one of the half hour slots on Sunday, if they aren’t interested in switching out either of those two Friday shows that I mentioned?
Lie to Me could go on after Idol on Tuesdays, either before Past Life premiered or after, but considering that they also like to sometimes air Idol for 2 hour blocks then I am not certain how interested they would be in that strategy (though it might help to save Dollhouse
).
Another possibility that occurs to me is, as I said last post, doubling up 2 shows that air in both the Fall & Spring in one slot with one premiering in January and running towards mid/late-March and then the next beginning right after. Perhaps pick one between Bones and Fringe and air Lie to Me immediately after, starting in late-March in that way?
What does surprise me is that you think so many shows will only manage to air 9 or so episodes in the Fall. My belief, though I could be mistaken, is that Fall shows usually come closer to airing 13 episodes before going on their December break. If that’s the case, then I think that my strategy is not at all unreasonable, though if I’m incorrect, then it might still be possible (especially with the show premiering at the end of March getting 1 or 2 two-hour blocks), but less likely.
AO – I actaully meant Sons sandwiched between The Simpsons and Family Guy on Sundays. I wrote monday by mistake but it seems likely FOX would air Sons in the sunday 8:30 slot, move Cleveland to 9:30 and American Dad to 7:30. The thing about what you said about House and 24 is that, while 24 is repeat free, House will likely have gaps. Instead of ending House early, House will be kept in that slot like last season and sometimes air repeats in that slot (or maybe another series will air a special episode in the slot like Bones did last April when a Presidential address messed up the schedule. Bones and Fringe will likely have some repeats but stay in the slots. It seems that Bones and Fringe will have aired 7 new episodes by the end of November with 2 more airing in December totalling 9.
I dont think with Monday or Thursday FOX will make any changes. Neither Bones nor Fringe will be moved for a new series just because FOX wants to stay consistent with those series. FOX has had trouble with thursdays but this year will be different with 2 solid dramas. So using that Logic, I dont see Lie to Me being on Mondays or Thursdays in 2010. Looking at the schedule again it seems without repeats, around 10 episodes of Lie to Me will air until December. If I were FOX I’d continue with the show airing Tuesdays after Idol. Then once Lie finishes, premeire Past Life. FOX could easily keep Lie to Me in the 9:00 slot Tuesdays, and air Past Life fridays at 9 in place of Dollhouse. Theres so many different options for where to air new series but im very certain 24 and House will stay on mondays, Bones and Fringe will stay on Thursdays, Brothers and Til Death will stay on fridays, and Sundays will be the same.
Here’s another scenario if Dollhouse doesn’t return.
Tuesdays
8:00 American Idol
9:00 Lie to Me/Hell’s Kitchen
Wednesdays
8:00 American Idol
9:00 Human Target/Glee
Fridays
8:00 Brothers
8:30 Til Death
9:00 Kitchen Nightamres/Past Life
FOX also has a new Hell’s Kitchen season so they could use that, but I dont see FOX airing Hell’s Kitchen on fridays. Kitchen Nightmares would likely air there to replace Dollhouse.
Dan,
Sons on Sundays I can see. And it sounds like we are in agreement on keeping House/24 on Mondays.
I do think that, barring something big, Bones and Fringe will stay on Thursdays. But in my scenario they wouldn’t have to be moved. IMDb already has Fringe in the Fall down for 8 new episodes, just through early-November:
9/17, 9/24, 10/1, 10/8, 10/15, 10/22, 10/29, 11/5
and I think that they have the potential to air new episodes on:
11/12, 11/19, 12/3, 12/10, 12/17
I am sure that they will skip 11/26 and they may not elect to new episodes for all 5 of those available dates, but they might (especially if they are looking forward to this crunch in the Spring) and even if they don’t, I think that they will get through more than 9. I would think at least 11 would air and very possibly more.
And Bones is not updated as far, but could go the same way. Here’s what has been posted:
9/17, 9/24, 10/1, 10/8, 10/15
Which starts Bones off on the same schedule as Fringe and so it could easily run for 11+ Episodes in the Fall.
Meanwhile, Lie to Me is down for:
9/8, 10/5, 10/12, 10/19, 10/26,
And based on that schedule could continue on with:
11/2, 11/9, 11/16, 11/30, 12/7, 12/14
Which would mean 11 aired and 11 left.
If I’m right, Fox would have three different shows at 11 episodes available, or less, remaining for 2 Thursday slots. If that’s the case, then would Fox really want to reserve a whole three hours in the Spring from January – May for all three? That doesn’t sound like the best plan to me. And that’s part of why I’m a fan of this back-to-back plan.
Alternatively in that scenario, if there are only 11 Lie To Me’s left then Fox could place it on Friday’s back-to-back with Dollhouse which will only have 9 episodes left (if extended).
How about Dollhouse:
1/8, 1/15, 1/22, 1/29, 2/5, 2/12, 2/19, 2/26, 3/5 = 9 Episodes and then
Lie to Me:
3/12, 3/19, 3/26, 4/2, 4/9, 4/16, 4/23, 4/30, 5/7, 5/14, 5/21 = 11 Episodes and 5/28 if necessary?
I think that Fox will want to keep Past Life (and Human Target) away from Fridays unless there is no other choice (or the advance buzz for one of them really sucks). I like the idea behind Human Target/Glee and don’t see why Fox might not do it again with either Bones/Lie To Me, Fringe/Lie To Me or Dollhouse/Lie to Me.
Beyond that, I still think that it’s possible that even if Fox were not to give Dollhouse a back 9, then they still could renew it for another 13 in Fall of 2010.
And yes, Hell’s Kitchen and Kitchen Nightmares are options.
Might I suggest:
Tuesday
8:00 American Idol
9:00 Lie To Me/Past Life
Thursday
8:00 Bones/Hell’s Kitchen
9:00 Fringe/Kitchen Nightmares
Friday
8:00 Brothers & ‘Til Death
9:00 Dollhouse until mid-March and then _____________ (Anything)
In re-reading that, does anyone else think that “Sons on Sundays” sounds like an idea for a comedy concept about a group of single Dad’s who only have custody of their kids on Sunday and all get together wherein wacky hijinks ensue?
Hm, or maybe I’m just up too late?
HEROES is dead for sure. i agree the idea that it should end at Seanson5. it seems like a other Prison Break tragedy.
House score a perfect number. wait GA and DH’s Premiere.
Big Bang make itself as good as 2.5Men. they are the best 2 sitcom.
Because of pisher I left pifeedback to come here. If he’s here it’s bad news. If I see his name pop up again next week I’m outta here.
Hi Tim! I have no idea who you are, but good to see ya!
Responding to a post that isn’t about me–
//Marc Berman did not list it as one of last night’s Losers.//
He also didn’t list it as a winner, or give it an honorable mention.
//The chemistry between Castle and Beckett is excellent and Castle
is one of the few positive portrayals of a father on TV.//
You have got to be kidding me. Don Draper is a model dad compared to this guy. If the chemistry is so wonderful, why is the demo so awful?
//Kudos to Stana Katic’s makeup artist and hair stylist, a definite improvement over last season.//
Yeah, she looked way too butch last season. Like she was actually more interested in catching criminals than attracting a chinless mystery novelist.
//The show retains it’s blend of humor/procedural from season one.//
Unfortunately for the show, yes.
Dan-
I love how after disputing me on Lie to Me maybe airing on Tuesdays that you came back around with AO and said that was a possible scenario (Most likely after/before the first-run of the midseason shows). A lot of people on sites always stick with what they said first, which makes them seem stubborn. However, you came out of this looking well thought-out.
I totally agree with you that Monday & Thursday will stay how they were intended (House/24 & Bones/Fringe), even with repeats.
I also think that Kitchen Nightmares should probably go on Fridays, however for some reason, I don’t think FOX will do that. When it comes to that program, FOX confuses me (hell, and I worked for them too!!).
Leno’s drop below 6M viewers indicates that he could go into a free fall. 10PM is not good for his style of programming. Adios Jay!
What is with every one thinking that the Heroes premier sucked? I mean, could someone explain what was wrong with it? I thought it was great.
Heroes will be lucky to get a full season! The demo is not even great anymore its fairly average. I just don’t think NBC can justify a renewal even though the network is in a bad way. The show is expensive and heavily promoted, yet the ratings get worst every week. Seriously 2 or 3 years ago this show would have been cancelled last season not letting it carry on a painful slow embarrassing death. If the ratings get a lot worst will Heroes even get its 20 episode order?
Whoa dude, didn’t you here that heroes got it’s budget cut majorly?
Revar-
It did, but it’s still costing more than the ratings show its worth.
It appears someone went on a “pishing” expedition over my earlier
Castle post.
To which I say:
Womanizing, identity stealing Don Draper a better role model?
AO – I like the way your thinking but the only reason I dont see anything changing on Thursdays is that, I see Thursdays doing well (for once) so why would FOX mess with something that works?? FOX only moved Bones and aired Hell’s Kitchen on thursdays last January because they didnt have any dramas to move there (Lie to Me and Fringe were getting the Idol treatment). Hell’s would do alot worse competing against CSI, Greys, Office, Rock than Fringe would. Thats the only reason I would see Bones and Fringe airing at 8 and 9.
Bones and Finge will air
9/17
9/24
10/1
10/8
10/15
11/12
11/19
12/3
12/10
New episodes wouldnt air on 10/22, 10/29, and 11/5 due to the world series and not on 11/26 due to Thanksgiving. I’d think maybe twice in december, the 17th may be a little late, or when repeats may start airing. That leaves 13 episodes of each for the spring. I dont think either series would be moved just because FOX wants to stay consistent with the night (because it is Thursdays)
As for Lie to Me, the series has episodes scheduled for
9/28
10/5
10/12
10/26
11/9
11/16
11/23
11/30
12/7
12/14
1 of those is likely to be a repeat, but we can agree on an average of 8-10 depending on how the series does. I think instead of putting the series on hiatus (like Glee), Lie to Me will just continue after Idol from January-February. If FOX likes the series, they will help it out again and finish the run early. If not they may just burn off all episodes or move it to fridays. I really dont think Past Life will premiere any earlier than March, which gives Lie to Me a good slot after Idol until then. Unless they want a new Hell’s Kitchen season in that slot. As you can see there is so many scheduling options.
The more likely scenario is that if Dollhouse gets axed, I believe all 13 episodes will run on fridays (hopefully into January) and then Kitchen Nighmares will replace it. Kitchen Nightmares is cheap, and if FOX wants to air the series they wouldnt put on a night with too much compeition. So if FOX doesnt want to premiere ny new dramas in the 9:00 friday slot, Nightmares is likely to go there, after Brothers and Til Death.
nkinsey – Well I think Lie to Me will hold up well after House and if FOX wants the show to succeed they will put it after Idol again tuesdays (since no other slots are available and I dont see Past Life premiering until March). Its good that you understand why I think Bones and Fringe should stay put. If FOX moved anything else there to replace Fringe, that show would get crushed. 24 and House will stay put with 24 occasionally airing double episodes to fill in for House repeats. FOX putting Kicthen Nightmares on fridays at 9 wouldnt be too bad. The show hasnt aired since January 2009 and FOX notices that fridays are great for shows they can just burn off.
With so many scheduling options, FOX has a packed year. However by leaving nights alone (Mondays, Thursdays) and slightly tweaking other nights (Tuesdays and Wednesdays) FOX can build up strong series and at the same time test other series out.
I kinda wish it was November when FOX usually announces their January schedule to see if any of our predictions came true.
@ Dan,
Regrettably something came up for me last night and I didn’t have the chance to view your reply until now. I’m not able to respond this morning, but will absolutely take time later today to think over your post and respond. My apologies for the delay.
Dan-
I 100% agree with you on Lie to Me (which I did WAAAAAY up on this thread when I guesstimated that Lie to Me would move to Tuesdays).
And I agree it would make absolute sense to move KN to Fridays midseason. Not only are their other nights jam-packed with potential, but FOX has had a lot of success on Fridays with reality fair (Trading Spouses/Nanny 911, 5th Grader/Lyrics)- so much so that I was puzzled when they replaced those shows and put scripted stuff on instead. Either way, FOX’s track record with Gordon’s show placement I wouldn’t be surprised if they put it on another night.
nkinsey – Fifth Grader ended up moving to syndication so I guess FOX felt it would be better to put scripted programming fridays. But if Lie to Me does well after House, then Tuesdays at 9 would be a good place to slide the series. If it gets a full season however, there would be about 10 more episodes to air in that slot, so if Past Life does end up taking the slot before Lie to Me finishes, Lie to Me may have to move to fridays by March. This could happen.
Tues January-February
8:00 American Idol
9:00 Lie to Me
Tues March-May
8:00 American Idol
9:00 Past Life
Friday January-February
8:00 Til Death
8:30 Brothers
9:00 Kicthen Nightmares
Friday March-May
8:00 Til Death
8:30 Brothers
9:00 Lie to Me
Its possible, FOX would premiere Past Life fridays at 9, instead of giving it the Idol treatment and leaving Lie to Me where it is.
I really wouldnt premiere Hell’s Kitchen any earlier than March since it runs continuously. Maybe wait until summer, but there arent any slots available, and I dont think FOX would give it the Idol treatment. They wouldnt air Hell’s on fridays either.
Hi Dan,
Sorry again for the delay in getting back to you. And thanks for the compliment.
I understand that Fox may be reluctant to to anything that might screw up Thursdays, IF they actually do well there (I think that Bones will be fine, but I’m a bit concerned about how Fringe will do against such tough competition). But in the same way, why would Fox risk killing a show by moving it to Fridays if they can avoid it? Especially if due to Dollhouse’s lower costs then they have the potential to be profitable there based on it’s budget?
As for how many episodes of Bones and Fringe will actually air in the Fall, then it looks like we just disagree. I absolutely concur that 11/26 is not a date when anything new will air, but otherwise I question why, given the overall strength of Fox’s shows Mon-Thurs, would they air repeats when they can avoid them? Especially in the Fall which is always weaker without AI and 24. Fox could air on only the dates that you are predicting, but I think that it would make more sense for them to include additional days in order to shore up their own ratings and try to take advantage of repeats by other Networks (and I know that I am biased based on my plan, in the same way that you are for yours).
For Lie To Me, is that 8-10 remaining? It looks like 8-10 aired and again, I am thinking more like 11 (and hoping for 12). Lie To Me starting back up again immediately in January does make sense, (I believe that I had thought that it might be a good idea too). Though I’m wondering, if they can do that, then why would they even need to move anything to Fridays at 9:00?
And Kitchen Nightmare is cheap, but so is Dollhouse now. Again, that’s why they hope to remain profitable with it despite what will probably be low ratings. Fox has said that they do want to avoid reality on Fridays and so that works to DH’s favor over Kitchen Nightmares.
In your response to nkinsey you say “FOX notices that fridays are great for shows they can just burn off”. They have more recently said that they don’t want that anymore, they want to figure out a model for profitable scripted programming on Fridays. That is one of the key reasons that I understood that they are trying out this new model with Dollhouse, to break from that past. And if that is a priority for them, then why would they abandon it by airing a reality show, if they have the relatively inexpensive Dollhouse?
AO: FOX isn’t expecting to win Thursdays, it’s looking to improve over last year. I’m not saying that they will be happy if Fringe is getting Dollhouse style 18-49 ratings, but your expectations might be higher than theirs.
Major League Baseball playoffs wreak havoc on FOX’s fall schedule starting after the first week of October and potentially going all the way out until November 1 this year. It’s possible there could be several Thursday nights preempted during that time.
isn’t 24 scheduled to have a 2hour sunday 9-11pm is year and monday 8-10pm.
Can’t they buy up a monday 9-11pm slot?
Hi Robert,
I didn’t mean to imply that I thought that Fox was hoping to win Thursdays and if that’s how my post sounded then I am sorry for that. I’m just feeling that Fox expected Fringe to be a bit more competitive at 9:00 then it looks like it will be. Based on that impression, I don’t know that Fox will be as reluctant to make changes, or do some tweaking there, as Dan seems to feel they will be.
Obviously Fox looks to have a surplus of shows that have been/are/should be successful and fitting them all in during the Spring will be a challenge. I just won’t concede that it is an impossible hurdle, or one that necessarily involves canceling Dollhouse (if the ratings warrant it’s continuation). And even if a show HAS to migrate to Fridays at 9:00, then I still maintain that 9 Dollhouse Eps could be shown Jan- mid March, with something else moving in that slot for the rest of the Spring.
I genuinely think that Fox wants Dollhouse to succeed, because they want scripted programming on Fridays, because it’s now cheap, because they don’t want to kill any other shows, etc. and I don’t see how their replacing it with any of the other options would be anything other than admitting that their Friday strategy has failed. Maybe it will fail, but I don’t think that they are rooting for that to happen.
Major League Baseball does throw things off, I’m just being optimistic in hoping that it will impact Mondays and Thursdays as little as possible.
Bottom line: Dan appears to be quiet convinced that Dollhouse HAS to remain off the schedule in the Spring and, as a fan, I’m trying to present all the reasons and scenarios why that doesn’t have to happen. As always, time will tell!
vsaint,
Fox currently has 24 slated to begin Sunday, January 17th for 2 hours and then to air another 2 hours on Monday the 18th. But they aren’t able to air anything past 10:00, so those two nights will both have to be 8:00 – 10:00.
Yeah FOX doesnt air 10-11 so there will be all 24 those 2 nights.
Anyway AO, I dont know what will happen to Dollhouse, I cant until the ratings for the first few eps. I’m just trying to be realistic. I had high hopes last year for three ABC dramas that started out their first seasons with really good ratings (unlike Dollhouse) but were interuppted by the strike. I had hoped their second seasons would be better but unfortunately by November ABC decided not to order anymore episodes and all 3 were off the schedule by December (and returned to air the final episodes in the summer). Now I dont think FOX wants Dollhouse to fail, and they wouldnt want any series to fail. Its just, I dont think they would expect much. And with the exception of 24 replacing Lie to Me, I dont think Mondays and Thursdays will be changing throughout the year. I could be wrong and Dollhouse could get a full year just how it got a second season, the odds are just really slim…….
I really hope that Castle does well this season. I hope that the ratings will be higher next Monday.
We Must Protect this HOUSE! wow solid numbers and wonderful change of pace. Two hours of amazing tv. It will be interesting to see what direction the show goes from here. This is the writers chance to change the direction of the show……or fall back into old habits.
Hi again Dan,
I understand your desire to be realistic and I would definitely agree that it’s never advisable to lose sight of the reality of a situation, but at the same time, circumstances can change.
I was somewhat pessimistic myself last year when I heard that Fox was airing Dollhouse. I have a long history of watching Fox cancel my favorite shows, from the early ’90’s up until very recently. But I was told to be patient, that Reilly was in charge now, and that he thinks differently. And that is indeed what happened with S1 of Dollhouse.
I very much understand what it’s like to lose favorites and I actually did watch Pushing Daisies and DSM too (though I was mightily disappointed with the quality of DSM in S2). But I was prepared for their cancelations when they did happen. I had been through it before with ABC shows like Line of Fire, Murder One, Once & Again and Sports Night.
But just because a lot of good shows (or what I consider to be good shows) have been canceled doesn’t mean that they will all be.
Dollhouse’s return doesn’t make a lot of sense to me under the old rules and so when I hear from Fox executives that there are new rules, that they are trying an experiment that may or may not be successful, then I am inclined to believe them.
The experiment may not make complete sense to those of us on the outside, it could be changed at any time. But so far, in regards to DH, Fox seems to know what they want a lot better than I do. The Spring schedule may be quite tough if Dollhouse is still on it, but if Fox really is still committed to this experiment, then I think that it will have an honest chance of a Back 9 and/or a S3 renewal.
Oh my God that is so great for House!! Nothing warms my heart more than seeing a tv show garner high ratings not for a gimick, or because it is a fad, but for actually having an outstanding cast and brilliant writers. Don’t think I budged at all throughout the full two hour premiere. It was absolutely amazing! You know a season will be great when the very first episode features an Emmy worthy performance from the main character. In a word, it was captivating. Hugh Laurie is a genius. The fact he was snubbed once again this year at the Emmys is absolutely baffling. GO HOUSE!!!
I’m keeping my fingers crossed for Castle, I absolutely love that show…
Eh poor Heroes. It sucks because the premiere was really good. If it can stay at these numbers it should be fine though. But if it goes below 4 million… I dont know.
Heres hoping to better ratings tonight!