| Scoreboard |  |
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| Rating/Share: Adults 18-49 | 5.8/16 | 3.7/10 | 2.5/7 | 2.3/6 | 1.5/4 | 1.4/4 |
| Rating/Share: Adults 18-34 | 5.6/16 | 2.2/6 | 2.1/6 | 2.4/7 | 1.6/5 | 1.6/5 |
| Total Viewers (million) | 15.33 | 13.97 | 7.33 | 5.26 | 3.77 | 3.22 |
FlashForward off to a good start, Survivor Samoa beaten in viewers for the first time in an eternity, but actually up versus last week despite the FlashForward premiere.
Fringe was down, but the night is definitely still up for FOX, who took third for the first official Thursday of the season.
Those predicting Grey’s Anatomy would pull adults 18-49 ratings similar to House – you were right, and I bow down to you! We’ll have to see the final tallies to know whether Grey’s or House was top scripted 18-49 show for the week. Either way, Grey’s put a whipping on CBS’ CSI and The Mentalist in terms of adults 18-49. But next week, The Mentalist will go head-to-head with Private Practice and should fare better.
CSI and Grey‘s were both down from last year, CSI sharply down from last year’s a 7.0/17 with adults 18-49 and 22.9 million viewers. Grey’s last year premiered to a 7.4/18 and 18.5 million viewers
Ratings highlights for FlashForward via ABC:
ABC took first place on the opening Thursday of the season in viewers and all key Adults (AD18-34/AD18-49/AD25-54), beating second-place CBS by 1.3 million viewers and by 57% in Adults 18-49. In fact ABC won all 6 half-hours of the evening in Total Viewers and Adults 18-49. It was ABC’s 2nd straight year to lead the season-opening Thursday on both Nielsen measures.
ABC’s series debut of FlashForward won the 8 o’clock hour in viewers and young adults, beating out CBS’ time-period veteran Survivor: Samoa by 11% in Adults 18-49. FlashForward gained viewers and young adult audience throughout its telecast.
- Despite its early time period, FlashForward was the #2 TV show of the night in AD18-49, topping both CSI and The Mentalist, and behind only Grey’s Anatomy.
- In Total Viewers and Adults 18-49, FlashForward registered as the biggest drama premiere on any network in the 8 o’clock hour since January 2008 – since Fox’s debut of Sarah Conner Chronicles on 1/13/08, which had the enormous advantage of airing after an ultra-high-rated NFL playoff game on that night (Cowboys-NY Giants).
- In viewers and young adults, it was ABC’s best performance in the time period with regular programming in 20 months – since 1/31/08.
Ok, so it doesn’t mention that it was the lowest premiere in Grey’s Anatomy history, that said, everything tailed off during last year, and last night’s numbers were above the levels Grey’s finished last season.
From CBS:
The second season premiere of THE MENTALIST on its new night improved the 10:00-11:00 PM year ago time period premiere of ”Eleventh Hour” and the second episode of SURVIVOR: SAMOA increased last week’s deliveries in viewers and demos, according to Nielsen preliminary live plus same day ratings for Thursday, Sept. 24.More
From FOX:
BONES:
- Week two of BONES posted a 2.7/8 among Adults 18-49 and so far this fall is outperforming its Thursday average last season by +7% among Adults 18-49, +10% among Adults 18-34, and +2% among Total Viewers.
- Compared to FOX’s Fall’08 time period performance with regular programming, BONES is up +71% among Adults 18-49, +35% among Adults 18-34, and +140% among Total Viewers. BONES ranked No. 3 in the hour among Adults 18-49 and No. 2 in Adults 18-34.
FRINGE:
- Week two of FRINGE posted a 2.3/6 among Adults 18-49. So far this season FRINGE shows substantial gains compared to FOX’s regular programming in the time period last Fall, increasing +37% among Adults 18-49 and +58% in Total Viewers.
- FRINGE ranked No. 4 in the 9p hour among Adults 18-49 and Adults 18-34.
Full details:
| Time | Net | Show | 18-49 Rating/Share | Viewers (Millons) |
| 8:00 | ABC | FlashForward (series premiere) | 4.1/12 | 12.41 |
| CBS | Survivor: Samoa | 3.7/11 | 11.87 | |
| FOX | Bones | 2..7/8 | 8.80 | |
| NBC | SNL Weekend Update Thursday | 1.8/5 | 4.66 | |
| CW | The Vampire Diaries | 1.7/5 | 3.81 | |
| 8:30 | NBC | Parks & Recreation | 1.8/5 | 4.22 |
| 9:00 | FOX | Fringe | 2.3/6 | 5.85 |
| ABC | Grey’s Anatomy (season premiere) | 6.6/17 | 17.06 | |
| CBS | CSI (season premiere) | 4.1/10 | 15.72 | |
| NBC | The Office | 3.8/10 | 7.33 | |
| CW | Supernatural | 1.2/3 | 2.62 | |
| 9:30 | NBC | Community | 2.8/7 | 5.36 |
| 10:00 | ABC | Grey’s Anatomy (season premiere) | 6.7/18 | 16.52 |
| CBS | The Mentalist (season premiere) | 3.4/9 | 14.33 | |
| NBC | The Jay Leno Show | 1.7/5 | 4.99 |
You can see TV ratings from other recent Overnight ratings reports here.
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Nielsen TV Ratings: ©2009 The Nielsen Company. All Rights Reserved.
Definitions:
Fast Affiliate Ratings: These first national ratings, including demographics, are available at approximately 11 AM (ET) the day after telecast, and are released to subscribing customers daily. These data, from the National People Meter sample, are strictly time-period information, based on the normal broadcast network feed, and include all programming on the affiliated stations, sometimes including network programming, sometimes not. The figures may include stations that did not air the entire network feed, as well as local news breaks or cutaways for local coverage or other programming. Fast Affiliate ratings are not as useful for live programs and are likely to differ significantly from the final results, because the data reflect normal broadcast feed patterns. For example, with a World Series game, Fast Affiliate Ratings would include whatever aired from 8-11PM on affiliates in the Pacific Time Zone, following the live football game, but not game coverage that begins at 5PM PT. The same would be true of Presidential debates as well as live award shows and breaking news reports.
Rating: Estimated percentage of the universe of TV households (or other specified group) tuned to a program in the average minute. Ratings are expressed as a percent.
Share (of Audience): The percent of households (or persons) using television who are tuned to a specific program, station or network in a specific area at a specific time. (See also, Rating, which represents tuning or viewing as a percent of the entire population being measured.)Time Shifted Viewing – Program ratings for national sources are produced in three streams of data – Live, Live+Same Day (Live+SD) and Live+7 Day. Time shifted figures account for incremental viewing that takes place with DVRs which are currently in approximately 24.4% of all U.S. TV households. Live+Same Day (Live+SD) include viewing during the same broadcast day as the original telecast, with a cut-off of 3:00AM local time when meters transmit daily viewing to Nielsen for processing. Live+7 Day ratings include incremental viewing that takes place during the 7 days following a telecast.For more information see Numbers 101 and Numbers 102.
| Time | Net | Show | 18-49 Rating/Share | 18-34 Rating/Share | Viewers (Millons) |
| 8:00 | CBS | Big Brother | 2.0/7 | 1.6/7 | 6.40 |
| FOX | Bones (R) | 1.5/5 | 1.3/5 | 5.19 | |
| NBC | 30 Rock (R) | 1.1/4 | 0.9/4 | 3.79 | |
| ABC | Grey’s Anatomy (R) | 0.9/3 | 0.7/3 | 3.38 | |
| CW | Smallville (R) | 0.6/2 | 0.5/2 | 1.28 | |
| 8:30 | NBC | Parks & Recreation (R) | 1.0/3 | 0.8/3 | 2.97 |
| 9:00 | FOX | So You Think You Can Dance | 2.5/8 | 2.4/9 | 7.40 |
| CBS | CSI: Crime Scene Investigation (R) | 1.4/4 | 0.8/3 | 7.48 | |
| NBC | The Office (R) | 1.3/4 | 1.2/4 | 3.17 | |
| ABC | Grey’s Anatomy (R) | 1.0/3 | 0.7/3 | 3.31 | |
| CW | Supernatural (R) | 0.5/2 | 0.6/2 | 1.27 | |
| 9:30 | NBC | 30 Rock (R) | 1.3/4 | 1.1/4 | 3.03 |
| 10:00 | CBS | The Mentalist (R) | 1.8/6 | 1.2/4 | 8.26 |
| NBC | Law & Order (R) | 1.2/4 | 0.7/2 | 4.17 | |
| ABC | Private Practice (R) | 0.7/2 | 0.6/2 | 2.39 |
And Leno sees his lowest night so far. But he’s still over 1.5.
ABC Must be happy!
I expected lower numbers for Fringe, but that is ridicoulus
Wow Fringe’s demos are terrible. I always wondered whether last year’s strength was due to having House and American Idol as lead-ins. Guess now we know.
I’m sure it has nothing to do with the three shows it’s up against ebas. *rolls eyes*
I think that results for Thursday will tend to even out a bit after premiere week, and Fox cannot have expected Fringe to beat the other 9pm shows.
How did The Office do with 18-34?
Office 4.6 A18-34, second to Grey’s 6.5 A18-34
Ouch. Parks and Rec got a 1.8 and less than 4 and a half million. How much longer is NBC going to keep it on?
Fox really needs to move Fringe- it’s getting creamed.
Jay did bad but not as bad as I thought he’d do.
Wow, Vampire Diaries got 1.7 and the NBC shows got 1.8. Good for them and pretty good total numbers.
I figured that moving The Mentalist from Tuesdays – where it worked SO WELL with NCIS – into a 10:00 slot was a stupid move, but I didn’t think it would result in a series low. That’s really pretty horrendous, if you ask me. Even when it’s up against Private Practice next week it’ll still be down from its peaks last season. Ugh.
Poor NBC though. I mean really, ow. At least the Jam wedding is in two weeks, I guess.
Put a fork in NBC’s 8pm line up. Jay Leno got more viewers than each of those shows and roughly the same 18-49 demo. “The Office” is funnier than ever this season, so it’s sad to see it not performing better. Perhaps in the weeks ahead. It still pulls a nice 18-49 rating. “Community” lost nearly 2 million viewers from “The Office”, so that isn’t a great sign, though it’s 18-49 rating is better than that of SNL-Thursday, P&R & Leno. I actually think “Community” might do better leading in at 8PM than the shows they currently have there.
Fox cannot have expected Fringe to beat the other 9pm shows
True, but were they expecting 2.3 demo? Of course, this might still be an improvement for them over last year, I can’t remember.
NBC’s 8pm Thursday hour is looking like a killing field. Whatever replaces SNL (scheduled to be Community on 10/15) will be crushed along with Parks & Rec
yay grey’s anatomy!
but i feel bad for fringe and the mentalist but i am happy csi is getting worse numbers because i really cannot stand that show.
I was expecting GA annihilating The Mentalist in the demo. That was the whole idea behind the 2 hour premiere. What amazes me, though is that it also had 2.19M total viewers more. I was expecting I tighter race there. That the difference would match the one with CSI.
wow FRINGE sinks but Supernatural keep its numbers!!!
jay leno has already less than 5 mil.viewers!!and is still week NO 2!!!
Yeah, next week should have no premieres but all new shows right? That’ll be the telling week in how things may go down this season. Fringe’s and The Office’s numbers worry me a bit. There’s just too much competition going around and both are taking a hit aside from likely hurting each other. I wonder how both networks will view those numbers as well as Community’s…
Michael, assuming Fox had realistic expectations for Fringe, why would they move it? Where would it go? And what would you put in its place?
There is officially too much competition on Thursdays for NBC’s comedy lineup. Also The Office needs to move to 8pm ASAP so its potential viewers can watch it. Many 18-49s watch Grey’s live and save The Office for online or DVR viewing, if that at all.
Wow! So, even with that kind of competition, Leno still cleared the 1.5 mark? I definitely think there’s a chance he could pull off that average this season if even on a night like this he pulled that number. Of course its still very early, people could get tired of watching and things could be different in several months.
I don’t remember Community’s numbers last week, but I think that’s a bigger drop off from The Office.
I’m surprised Vampire Diaries wasn’t picked up already. Maybe after holding up against the competition they will turn that extra script order into a full season pickup.
My biggest concern – Is that a good enough demo rating for Fringe that Fox will just roll with it knowing that its a tough time period? If not, I want it moved back to Tuesday ASAP. Cannot risk it being in danger. And really hate that FOX put it in this position.
Thanks, Bill. I figured NBC would be killed in the 18-49 department for the night, but do much better with 18-34 compared to the other networks.
I See The Vampire Diaries is holding on strong maintaining there ratings, and supernatural sliped a bid, id feel alot better if they maintained 3 mil viewers, 2.6 mil is still higher then all the other shows between mon-wed, ekk at Parks and Rec thats really low, but i think there show is really cheap to make lol
The Mentalist will grow I predict over time. FlashForward vs. Survivor will be an interesting battle next week. And CW must be so happy with The Vampire Diaries, it is so close on beating NBC!
I agree down the line with Bill. FOX had to know Fringe wasn’t going to do as well out of Bones and against CSI, The Office and Grey’s Anatomy as it did last year. Freaking out about a 2.3 for Fringe on premiere night for ABC and CBS is like freaking out about Leno’s 1.8 on the same night. Silly, but people will do it anyway!
4 days in, maybe now Gorman will admit the LENO EFFECT.
Down across the board.
A 2.3 in the demo! On THURSDAY!
SHOCKING
Network on life support…
I’m glad Flash Forward did well, I enjoyed the pilot, more for the potential of the series than my enjoyment of that episode though. NBC had a rough night, Community was somewhat promising last week, but did not hold on to near enough of The Office lead in. The Vampire Diaries seem to be the CW’s one bright spot this season. With even America’s Next Top Model down by a lot. Maybe Smallville will be able to do well for them tonight.
Grey’s was great last night and deserved huge numbers. Nice for Flash Forward, which is very promising. And Survivor and Vampire Diaries held up well, so it’s good all around for my favorites of the night. Private Practice might do okay vs. Mentalist in the demos this season, hope do anyway.
The Mentalist premiere was nothing special, just another episode. They failed to make it an event.
Wow, NBC just can’t get a grip at 8pm on Thursdays! (the SNL Glenn Beck parody was FUNNY!)
However, Leno still did pretty decent relatively speaking – he tied his (more expensive) 8pm counterparts, and faced some very heavy competition. NBC must be pleased overall.
I think Fringe would do much better behind House on Monday’s and considering there’s not much going on Tuesday’s I think it could do better there too. Fringe doesn’t go well with Bones (Lie to Me would fit better) and it has too much competition with the same viewers at 9 PM I think.
ABC is thrilled today. They did very well the last two nights with their premieres. Of course, they will all drop next week, but it’s a great start.
CBS isn’t happy with last night’s numbers, but I don’t think they’re all that worried either. Next week will look better.
Bones held up well for FOX, but Fringe is disappointing. It’s still better than what they had last year, but a 2.3 isn’t going to keep Fringe on the air.
OUCH for NBC. Their 8:00 hour bombed and Community dropped a full point in the demo from last week. Things could improve without the premieres, but they have to be upset about last night’s results.
BTW – “Community” really stumbled on it’s 2nd week, eh?
Yay for Grey’s. It demolished the competition. Fox had to expect they couldnt go close to CSI and Greys. Bones does quite well against Survivor and Flash Forward. FF was a fantastic premiere. I cant wait till next week. I was sitting on my seat throughout the entire show.
The Mentalist also did ok but the new timeslot will hurt it overall. Still it was very good figures none the less.
How did Community do with 18-34? I assuming it dropped compared to last week.
Community 3.2 A18-34
Good premiere numbers for Flash Forward. People will tune into new shows, if the premise is good / reviews are good / well advertised / etc.
Rest of 8pm isn’t much of a surprise – the question being how much of FF’s audience goes back to Survivor. NBC needs to kill Parks before it drags down Community along with (at an 8pm start time).
9pm is a bit of a shocker. CSI is way the hell up from where it was trending late last year – and I can come up with no explanation. (There isn’t some millions strong Jorja Fox fan club, is there?) Fringe is getting murdered in that slot… and Fox frankly has no where else to put it. I honestly think Fringe’s survival into 10/11 depends on if 24 comes back or not.
10pm isn’t that much of a surprise either. I thought Mentalist would be down at the later hour (though it will improve next week with Grey’s out of the way). And while I’m sure Berman is writing his “Leno & NBC fail again” post, the NBC execs are probably ecstatic that Leno did a 1.7 on the most competitive night against premieres. I could see Leno doing 2.0+, even on Thursday, over the 52-week average.
Good numbers for FlashForward. I expected it to do 4.0 at least and so it’s nice to see it doing even a bit more. Still, premiere numbers are nothing, I’ll be curious to see how it fares next week.
Supernatural should have just moved to Fridays along with Smallville. The network would be pleased with the numbers if they got this on Fridays. Otherwise, the gap between Vampire Diaries and Supernatural in Viewers/Demos will get the latter show cancelled by seasons end. It isn’t “girl” friendly after all.
Tom, agreed. The Leno skeptics are struggling to find the black cloud for his show. They are now resorting to blaming the rest of NBC’s cratering ratings on him!
ABC is DOMINATING this fall season. They are having one of the best years in a really long time. I knew Flash Forward would win the 8:00 hour since Survivor isnt as strong as it use to be. I also knew Greys would beat or do the same as the House premiere!
CW almost beat NBC. Thats pretty sad. I have a feeling next week, CW will beat NBC in the 8:00 hour.
Wow, Fox just killed Fringe. I hate them. Never get attach to Fox shows… They always screw it up a way or another… It’s sad cuz it’s really my favorite show on the air.
WOW for FF champaign everyone. 14 millions 4.1 is really, really good. Expect a 3.9-4.0 for the next episode. So good to know a new sci fi show can do that well
Good for Vampire diaries it’s holding really well against the competition
And I found myself watching the show weekly now… didn’t though it would happen…
The mentalist s down from the 18 millions last year… but still good
Wow. I am impressed by Flashforward. With no lead in or anything. Thank goodness they didn’t put it behind Grey’s Anatomy for lead-in purposes. Then we’d all be calling it a big loser.
I’m amazed that the infamous chick-flick program that is Grey’s Anatomy is apparently what all the young men in America want to watch though.
I was getting tired of Fringe last year. Really tired. After the premiere mini-movie, nothing else compared. I’m watching this year for Leonard Nimoy, after that though I don’t really have any interest. Obviously no one else does either. I’m amazed though that not only the viewers but the demo is in the dumper.
And glad to see CSI finally on the wane. Hate that show.
I think CBS will most likely move CSI to Tuesdays (8pm) and replace it with NCIS (9pm).
I’m glad ABC’s new premieres have done so well. FlashForward, Modern Family, and Cougar Town are all great shows.
Ouch, looks like Community really fell against increased competition.
Lesson we’ve learned dear children is that NCIS is now TV’s #1 Show until Idol returns, or will even that get destroyed by thy name is NCIS?
House will win the week in 18-49. Who would have thunk even Grey’s couldn’t beat it? Unless the Live+SD numbers get added up to higher than House…
Tom,
NBC is not ecstatic. Big picture, pal.
Affiliates are not ecstatic either. They were delivered a 1.7 on the biggest night of the week.
You guys have serious tunnel vision.
Huh. I expected Grey’s to do better for some reason. Like 20 million, just due to all the hype and the possibility of an original cast member dying and it being the premiere.
@forg,
The Mentalist will definitely grow over time if Private Practice doesn’t move away ASAP from the crap that was the second part of S2 with the exception on of the crossover episodes. All the focus on Violet/Pete/Cooper, with the actors featured in the DVD extras are definitely not selling the DVD’s on Amazon. S1 made the overall top 100 last year. This year S2 is in the 200s for the 1st week.
I guess the fans are speaking with their wallets. We will see how tolerant they will be with the continuation of the Violet crap when it premieres, but specially in the second week.
NBC must be worried about being neck and neck with the CW at 8PM. Grey’s and FlashForward did fantastic. ABC must be happy. CBS can’t be too unhappy with the results, CSI is past its prime, and The Mentalist isn’t exactly a juggernaut and Survivor did ok. But the CW has to be the happiest I think this is the closest they have come to a tie with any of the broadcast nets (even if it is NBC) for a show this season.
Wow Gorman. It’s amazing you little you understand the TV business.
10 o’clock Thursday is the #1 place a network has ALL WEEK to promote their shows.
NBC gets a 1.7 in that slot.
All their shows are suffering, even shoe-ins like SVU.
And still you refuse to see the connection. Simply willful ignorance.
I promise you that NBC sees the connection.
Wilma, you can’t blame Parks and Rec’s bad numbers on Leno. Everybody whose name wasn’t Amy Poehler knew that Parks and Rec would fail this season, which makes you wonder why NBC renewed it.
Actually the Vampire Diaries is the best Dawn’s desicion-and i think the onlyone in CW’s history!!
Very happy that Vampire Diaries held on strong – time to give it a full season. Kinda surprised that Greys beat CSI – I got bored with it after the first hour and switched over to The Mentalist. While the show did nt quite blow me away I think I’ll give it a chance over the Greys clone or oven Jay.
What I’ve been saying for a year–Fringe was a piggy-back “hit” and the real results are showing themselves.
Still, I think FOX will give the show a full season as they have a development deal with JJ Abrams for a comedy.
Good for FlashForward, but would have liked the demos to be a bit higher since these types of shows usually start strong and then fade, hope it can hold up. Grey’s still a huge powerhouse be interesting though to see what happens with all the cast fluctuations this season happening.
CBS’ Thursday is fading but will be solid second this season, plus their shows repeat at least twice as well as ABC’s so overall for the season CBS will be closer to ABC than it seems. If Mentalist does well and CSI continues to drop, wonder if CBS will move Mentalist to 9 next season.
FOX takes third, wow!! Of course, this is more a statement on the sad state that is NBC. Seems like Must-See TV was just yesterday
Surprised that Community dropped so much in second week, not a promising sign. P&R not going to last much longer unless they have some kind of deal since it’s from same people as Office.
Vampire Diaries almost beats NBC, only that really doesn’t mean that much anymore!!
Actually Wilma–NBC probably does see “Leno” as the silver linging this season. A full weeks worth of shows which cost less than one hour long drama. They will make money off of that. The ratings aren’t really that bad either–it depends on the night. They said they would be happy with a 1.5 18-49 rating and 1.8 would be a home run. It got 1.7 and most nights it’s over 2.0. I believe just the other night it was 2.3. This was the lowest rated night against big premieres and it still got about five million viewers. I think night by night it will be up and down between 5-7 million based on competition and then when we get into rerun season with the scripted shows I think it will do better among key demo groups. Compared to NBC’s other problems this season (with the exception of Football Sunday) Leno is looking good for them.
Anyone else notice that The Vampire Diaries has a The WB kinda feel to it. It would have fit in very nicely with the old WB’s lineup of Charmed, Buffy, Angel….etc (Message to CW, go back to being The WB….it works!)
@Wilma Dornig-
Southland was, what, low 2s when it ended its run? So NBC is getting 75% of the ratings (vs. an “event” premiere!) at 20-25% of the cost. No, you’re right, they’re all committing suicide right now over their dire straits. (/eyeroll)
Now, are the affiliates all that happy about it? No, but it is not like NBC had any hit shows leading into 11pm anyway. They should be pissed at NBC… for the last 5 years of show development, not Leno.
NBC is totally irrelevant and has nothing worthwhile….They keep putting on these ridiculous shows,,except for The Office,, and getting creamed.
what was the 18-34 rating for Vampire Diaries? Im sure it beat NBCs.
Interesting that The Mentalist did .1 better in the demo than the premiere of Eleventh Hour last year– I thought TM would have had better numbers, or on par with CSI.
I wonder if EH and TM had been switched last year, would EH have been the breakout hit and TM the one to be canceled?
I like TM, liked EH, and think it was a mistake that CBS canceled the show because it averaged 2.9.
In defense of Parks & Recreation, it received NO promotion for its much-much-much improved Season 2 (see the reviews or watch for yourself if you thought it wasn’t good before). NBC and the promo team should have treated it like a brand-new show in terms of deciding how much promo it needed. 6 episodes for one season is not enough for them to say “no promotion needed.”
Mike,
Not blaming Parks in particular on Leno, that show just sucks. Leno isn’t helping though.
SVU is a different story. Heroes is a different story. Look at what is happening to the network across the board! Everything is DOWN. EVERYTHING.
Leno is (for now) slightly beating its spectacularly low expectations. NBC crowed about how a 1.5 would do the trick. Did NBC predict that everything else would be down? Did they predict that Heroes and SVU would crater? 5 nights a week they are getting sub 2 at 10. Sub 2 for 10 oclock promos MATTER. The proof at this point is overwhelming.
and Gorman,
How bout addressing the Tonight Show’s fall? It’s traditionally a cash cow for the network. But I guess Leno has nothing to do with that either.
Yeah, we’re struggling to find black clouds.
Many people predicted that stripping Leno would hit the entire lineup. Leno is on. The lineup is getting destroyed. DESTROYED.
@Andrea, The premiere of 11th Hour also wasn’t up against the premiere of Grey’s, so it had a bit of an advantage there.
Just when you think it cant get much worst for NBC it does! Parks and Recreation is finished and soon so will community the ratings will just get worst… Also Fringe I think wont be lasting much more if it pulls in those numbers again next week. Once the demo drops a bit for Fringe Fox will cancel it or…move it to Fridays. ABC is brilliantly and CBS is not really in a bad position. Although surprisingly low numbers for CSI and the Mentalist.
@Andrea – Fringe already has a full season order. I’m sure Fox isn’t happy with its performance in the meatgrinder, but its not like they have anywhere else to put it (especially true once AI comes back).
Tommy, I agree although TVD pales in comparison with the WB hits during its prime but still the feel of the show was so WBish.
I hope Smallville will premiere with respectable numbers. And oh Supernatural is also a girl friendly show because of the leads. I still think the show is pretty much safe simply because I don’t think any CW show could survive there (well maybe Vampire Diairies but its already doing good on the 8pm slot)
With the entire comedy line up of NBC down, I’m worried for 30 Rock, I wonder the domination on the EMMYS could help or hurt the show
Tonight’s results likely signal the eventual cancellation of both Parks and Recreation and Community this season which is a terrible shame. Parks really looks to be finding its groove too. That said, thanks to FlashForward, I along with many, many others who would have otherwise, won’t ever be watching either of them live so it’s definitely understandable.
And those mammoth Grey’s Anatomy results stun me. I just cannot believe this many people still care about this show.
Wilma, the Tonight Show’s fall has nothing to do with Leno and everything to do with Conan. He kept losing viewers since day 1.
NBC is doing poorly this season. I wonder how much longer Zucker can keep his job.
I think it’s important to remember that NBC was facing even worse numbers at 10:00 last season when My Own Worst Enemy and Lipstick Jungle were at their crumbling lows, and both cost probably 5-6 times more than a single episode of Leno. Still, Leno is also down 40-45% from the kind of numbers that SVU and E.R. could deliver, and there’s always the question of how the affiliates feel about that (Especially for a night like Thursdays). Is there a potential scenario where NBC cuts back on Leno (To Mon/Wed/Fri perhaps) to appease potentially furious affiliates next season?
I was surprised FlashForward didn’t get bigger numbers and very surprised Survivor held up so well against it.
I think ABC shot themselves in the foot when they started to tie FF in with Lost. FF looked like something new and fresh in the early advertisements and then they tied it in with Lost and it started to look like something we’ve all seen before.
For those here who continue to point out at Leno at 1.7 will cash flow, you are right.
That is not my point.
My point is that who cares if it cash flows if it has a seriously deleterious effect on all their other shows.
The cash they are losing by all shows getting crushed will not be made up by the fact that Leno is cheap to produce. Net-net, Leno is a huge negative.
NBC is painting itself into a corner. Soon they will have to put on cheap programming earlier because of the revenue constraints. That will effect Leno…
Leno is the beginning of a death spiral. He is the engine of a death spiral.
I have an entire lineups worth of proof. You guys have a 1.7 and blinders on.
Nick, Community still has a chance. People who are writing off Heroes and Community forget that NBC’s demos have been horrible this week, except for the Office and the Biggest Loser.
Now, Parks and Rec, OTOH,…
NBC has been struggling for years, this is nothing new. The overall numbers for the entire week are actually better than they have been in a long time.
I actually wonder if NBC would be better off having Jay Leno begin the nights at 8PM? rather than end the night. Probably not.
Abc Must be estactic the first time in gods knows how long since something beat survivor. Bill when was the last time survivor lost the time slot.
Ouch for Fringe hopefully fox realizes it was a mistake putting it up agaisnt Greys and CSI and gives it a 3rd season and moves it to a different night
Boy,NBC should move the OFFICE and COMMUNITY to the 8pm hour.
THE OFFICE is a great show, and it is sad to see it getting trounced by the tough competition at 9pm.
COMMUNITY is much better than PARKS AND RECREATION.
NBC should just put their worst shows on at 9 and give it up. Too much competition.
THE OFFICE would do much better at 8pm.
Or, I would love to see NBC move it to Wednesday night.
Wilma, the “death spiral” didn’t start with Leno. It started years ago. NBC has been in trouble for a long time.
I’m struck mostly by the surprisingly low demo number for THE MENTALIST. THE MENTALIST took quite a dip from CSI’s 18-49 rating, and since GREY’S ANATOMY had only a slight uptick in the 10 o’clock hour, it’s not like GREY’S syphoned them off.
Leno’s numbers will rebound quite a bit once all the premiers are done with and people get bored with the regular shows.
Ryan,
Vampire Diaries held on to its numbers b/c it doesn’t have the heavy competition Supernatural has, not even close. Supernatural did pretty amazing considering the huge premier of Grey’s and CSI. Not too mention, now it has Fringe to compete with. I’m sure that show took some scifi fans from SPN. But the numbers should bounce back next week.
Should I be worried about Bones? Please answer I’m not an expert about ratings, I just don’t want it to end, It’s my favourite show!
“NBC has been struggling for years, this is nothing new. The overall numbers for the entire week are actually better than they have been in a long time.”
Heroes is down 40% from last season. SVU is down double digits. NBC comedy Thursday? Yeah, down double digits. Only Football is up, and that has nothing to do with NBC itself.
SURVIVOR was bested weekly by FRIENDS during the latter’s last three seasons. And every time IDOL has a Thursday night showing, SURVIVOR gets slaughtered. So I don’t think last night’s SURVIVOR rating is anything for CBS to worry about — the fact that it was up from the previous week, against more formidable competition, seems to me a GOOD sign.
CSI jumped the shark when Gil Grissom disappeared into the tropics. It will never get the numbers it did when the original cast was together and the show was terrific.
Leno is Dead Man Walking. NBC is in serious trouble folks.
@Georgie,
No, Bones is doing just fine. There is no reason to think it’s in trouble.
I think things will even themselves out for Fringe after these premieres are over. It’s also in a tough spot because its competing against shows established in their time slots. People are more likely to record Fringe for later viewing while continuing to watch what they were already watching on Thursday last year live. For instance i’m sure a good chunk of Supernatural’s viewers like myself are recording Fringe and watching it afterward.
Great night for ABC, CBS will be dissapointed at CSI and The Mentalist but with The Mentalist, I think it will do better next week against Private Practice but to premiere lower than aging shows like CSI:NY is a concern.
The Vampire Diaries held up and I think this is the direction that The CW should be going for.
Michael, I’m just not so sure. That big drop last night doesn’t bode well for the future. And it will drop even more when it moves to 8:00 in 3 weeks.
Mike,
You’re right NBC has sucked for years. But Leno is the kill shot.
NBC’s plan was for Leno to get a 1.5 and hold, maybe gain ground everywhere else.
Leno is getting around 1.7 (for now). Maybe 15% better than expected. Everything else is down 30% plus.
Net-net, a disaster.
Remember, this show is on 5 nights a week! 1/3 of the primetime lineup. To say that it doesn’t have an effect on the other shows is crazy. It’s like saying nothing above your chest effects the rest of your body.
I don’t think Fringe is dead in the water, it was in a very, very tough timeslot and FOX couldn’t have thought it was going to be a giant there. Just like The Office, it is going to take a hit because of the competition. I choose to watch and DVR Fringe and Grey’s, with Fringe being my #1, and watch The Office online simply because a half hour is easier to catch online. And I’m in both key demos. I think both would see bumps in different time periods. I’ve seen many people commenting on different forums that they are in the same spot as I am, watching 3 shows that come on at once. Thursdays are crammed, this was bound to happen.
I’m not sure we can judge much from this week, given the season premiere boost for several major returning series. Community seems to be holding up all right, all things considered. Hopefully it will nudge higher next week. I thought last night’s episode of Community was very good and better than the premiere so I expect word of mouth to be positive.
From 9:30 to 10:00 I was flipping between FOX and NBC: to whichever one was in a commercial break!
DAMN Fringe and Community are some stinky ass shows! Yuck!
@Wilma – Heroes’ ratings are dropping because the show sucks, and has sucked, for entire seasons now. Also airing at 8pm now vs. rougher competition (House vs. PB/24). Leno has nothing to do with it.
SVU is down, mainly because it is in a more competitive time slot. So yes, Leno has hurt NBC by knocking one show out of its comfy timeslot. Let’s not focus on the suggestion that the show was doing well solely because of the timeslot – nope, all public hatred of Leno!
Let’s look at the massive Leno effect on shows that didn’t move time slots into more competition or air against event premieres like The Office the last week.. oh wait, their numbers weren’t affected to any massive degree, because your theory is a load of manure. People didn’t bother checking into a new show like Community either because of Leno.. oh wait, you’re wrong there too!
Look, I get that you’re worried that about the future of TV. I don’t like the Leno show, won’t watch it, and wish there were scripted shows on then (I’ll take Kings & Journeyman back immediately). But given NBC’s years-long programming failures, it makes sense.
CSI and Mentalist had no BIG holdover story line from last season. In other words we weren’t waiting to see who would live or die or whatever, like Tuesday’s NCIS or Monday’s and Wednesday’s CSI shows. House had a similar hook.
That was the whole reason for the Grey’s Anatomy numbers. It was a cliffhanger. Cliffhangers, even if the audience is clued in, always get big numbers.
What amazes me is how people are counting out returning shows after one or two viewings. I’m not a fan of Fringe, but for those who are, maybe FOX should do something time slot wise later, but they had to know that it would be clobbered in that time slot. A two year old would know that. Too many demo centric viewers for other shows.
Length of time would also be a factor. Which would be easier to record and watch later? A half hour show, a one hour show, or a two hour show? From reading previous posts a lot of viewers are conflicted on Thursdays.
OMG CW and` The Vampires Diaries` almost beat NBC ! Next week it sure will!!! GO VAMPIRE DIARIES!!!!!
As to Leno, while much of the damage was in competition, I think he was hurt a little by the Rush Limbaugh guest. Not that the audience is full of liberals but Rush has a somewhat hateful image and it is in conflict with the happy intentions of the Leno series. Similarly but to a less extent with Michael Moore whose appearance on Leno also marked a low point for the show in ratings.
@TommyK – I think the only reason CBS should worry about Survivor (and not worry too much) Is that this is the first time it’s ever been beaten by a Freshman show’s premiere.
NBC should’ve kept My Name Is Earl.
What was its numbers at premiere time last fall?
John, about Leno’s numbers rebounding.
Wanna bet?
The other point to make, irrespective of numbers, is that the Leno show SUCKS. He’s not even funny! Colbert is funny. Daily Show is funny. 30 Rock is funny. Office is funny. Modern Family is funny. Leno is not funny.
Not even Gorman can defend the actual quality of the show.
This will end in tears for NBC. End of Leno rants.
NBC needs to beg the NFL to sell them a full season of Thursday night games.
Vetinari, if the Office had experienced a similar drop, I might agree with you. But that didn’t happen. The Office dropped just 7% while Community fell 26%.
Chris, no chance. The NFL Network would have nothing without the half season or so of Thursday night games it airs.
Survivor’s results make me very interested in how well Amazing Race will do Sunday night. Race has been creeping up on Survivor for a while now, especially in total viewers. This may be the season Race actually passes Survivor in total viewers and in the demo.
Wilma, get over it Leno isn’t going anywhere. Leno is working for NBC @10PM and you really need to stop blaming Leno for veteran shows tanking. They should be able to stand on their own regardless of anything else on the network. Heroes, down because it sucks, SVU down because of competition, the Office down because of competition. None of these are Leno’s fault. If anything he’s outperforming almost everything that was on NBC at 10PM last year, with the exceptions of ER and SVU.
good for greys. the episode was amazingly well done
The big question about the Leno move is whether NBC will succeed in changing the business–clearly ABC and CBS still believe profit is to be made from conventional dramas at 10, and the continuing success of shows like Grey’s and CSI suggest that they’re correct. NBC is re-defining itself as a niche network, aiming for profit margins without even trying to aim for anything other than #4. The questions are:
- is there any tangible value to overall network averages?
- the Leno show is cheap to create but has no ancillary value (syndication, DVD, foreign sales). It’s the same model NBC tried before with its Dateline all-the-time programming; that proved to be a short-term fix.
- the ultimate answer about the Leno experiment will come down to affiliate 11:00 ratings. Again, NBC was performing so abysmally last year at 10:00 that Leno could even increase the ratings for local news.
It will be interesting to see the DVR numbers for shows on this night. I DVR’ed 5 hours of programming last night (not to mention I’m watching Supernatural on DVD through Netflix). I suspect I am not the only one DVRing more shows on Thursday night than I can possible watch in one night. By comparison, I watched 2.5 hours of Monday programming, 1 hour of Tuesday programming, nothing on Wednesday, and only football over the weekend. I think the sheer quantity of good stuff on Thursday means there is going to be more viewing showing up in the Live+7 that is not in the Live+SD than is normally the case. It will be interesting to see if some shows are more impacted than others.
John, I’m not worried about the future of TV. There are more scripted shows on than ever.
NBC i’m not worried about either. I don’t worry about things I don’t give a shit about. I’m just pointing out that the decision to strip Leno is killing the network. If you really want to insist that the seismic shift of giving 1/3 of programming to a single show has nothing to do with the massive across the board drop off in ratings, you go right ahead.
If I were NBC I’d redo Thursday night. I think “Community” has potential and “The Office” is still a great show. I think I’d put them on at 8 and 8:30 to kick start the week. Put “30 Rock” on at 9PM and then something other than “P&R” at 9:30. I’m leaving Leno at 10 because fact is that is where he is going to continue to be for some time.
Tommy,
Other than that, how was the play ms. lincoln.
I’ll bet everybody here that they don’t keep Leno on 5 nights a week.
Who wants some?
Bill and Robert – for those of us with really bad memories, is there a way to chart week after week results by show?
Rich you had me until your last point. Leno is not increasing ratings for local news. Look it up.
Chuck Keeping the hit shows at 9PM makes more sense. More people are watching TV at 9 then 8. All that would happen to The Office if it moved to 8PM is get lower ratings.
Leno had Rush Limbaugh on last night. It was probably too scary to watch right before bedtime!
It’s a shame Parks & Recreation is doing so bad, as it’s really improved this season. Much like how The Office didn’t really hit its groove quality-wise until season 2. Surprised by how much Community went down after how well it kept its lead-in last week.
I’m surprised that with more competition Survivor actually went up, especially since it’s such a weak season that has to rely on gimmick characters to not be completely boring. Flash Forward had a strong premiere, and though I expect it’ll end up below Survivor a couple weeks from now, I’m sure ABC’s happy over its success, as well ass Grey’s ratings. Between last night and Wednesday, ABC’s looking to have a great season.
Surprised The Mentalist didn’t do better, even at 10 opposite Grey’s. Surely it’ll do better next week, but now I’m starting to doubt it’ll be the CSI replacement everyone anticipated. Still don’t see it going anywhere, though.
Wilma, I’d love to make a wager with you. I stand by my comment. I guarantee Leno will rebound as the season goes on. Last night was the toughest night of the week. This is premiere week. The big shows on the other networks don’t always get those huge numbers. Add in the fact that Leno had his most unlikeable guest to date last night. Time will tell. I stand by my comments.
i dont understand what people in usa see in grey´s anatomy sorry but i don´t see nothing in that show is like a e.r copy very buried…
here in brasil supernatural rules… is the best show ever
Smgpugfaw,Earl had 6.4 million viewers and a 2.7 in the demo when it premiered last year.
Way to go for Bones!
The difference between The Mentalist and Eleventh Hour is that EH was an interesting show and the episodes got better every week, despite what people say. The Mentalist is sometimes just another case, like dozens of other shows out there. I wouldn’t be surprised if TM starts falling week after week.
Good for ABC too. It’s having a good week.
CSI’s numbers are not good either, for a season premiere, it would have to be up. I predict this is its last season.
bye bye fringe that show no matter how much i give it a try its still horrible and very confusing ,FlashForward was incredible
So far this week:
Leno:
1.8, 2.3, 2.0, 1.7 average – 1.97 so far?
TVBTN Guys:
People are freaking out about Fringe because those numbers, 5.5 million viewers and a 2.3 in the demos, are identical to 2 FOX series last year in the early going. You may remember them, given how often you’re invaded by fans of both:
Prison Break and TSCC.
So people see numbers identical to a couple of canceled shows and they freak. What do you expect?
Lu, CSI still got a 4.1 in the demo. It’s not going anywhere for a long time.
Leno will be a homerun at a 1.5 is puffery at its best! How can a major? network shoot for a 1.5 at that hour M-F? Revenue wise it might work short term, but you essentialy are throwing in the towel for the long run.
Yes, unfortunately Leno isn’t going anywhere. It is the cheapest show on TV to produce right now and is therefore making NBC lots of revenue ($$). But to say that you can’t blame Leno (the show) for what’s happening is incorrect as far as I’m concerned. It moving to 10pm Mon-Fri has directly affected the numbers of most TV shows this Fall except for the few powerhouses that stayed in their coveted timeslots. Premiere week isn’t a good judge of numbers either because they are just that, premieres. Numbers will come back to regular for many shows, therefore affecting the numbers of their competition.
Fringe’s numbers weren’t good but that show will bounce back over time. Bones is an absolute rock. No matter where they put that show it pulls in the same steady numbers. That show’s fan base is locked in.
NBC Thursday was annihilated and “Parks and Recreation” is the weakest link. I’m not sure that show will last a full season. NBC is not giving the viewers a solid reason to tune in between 8pm and 9pm.
FlashForward did well but will surely weaken and the Mentalist will do much better next week against Private Practice. It may even be the most watch scripted program of the night next week.
I really don’t see how people find Fringe confusing… it’s not… at all. Unless you’re not paying attention of course or expect you can skip 5 episodes and ‘give it another chance’ and still be in the know.
What was the 18-34 rating for Vampire Diaries?
I DVRed (is that a word?) six shows but only watched Supernatural so far. Thursday night is ridiculous.
Michael, for now, because it was the season premiere. Let’s see how it develops in the next episodes.
No doubt Kathy. My DVR numbers will never factor in because I don’t want that many episodes in the same night. I’m sure I’m not the only one that has this problem.
Didn’t CSI debut later in the season, I’m sure it started in October due to the debates and therefore did not have to compete with Grey’s Anatomy plus it was coming off a cliffhanger. I do think this is will be the last time it will on at 9pm though.
I wonder when the unofficial “Save Fringe” campaign begins?
Another request for the 18-34 for the CW’s shows.
I agree with everyone that Thursday nights are the busiest for my DVR… but of the six or seven shows I record, only two are network shows (FlashForward and The Vampire Diaries). Everything else is on cable, where the majority of entertaining shows live.
I can’t see Leno rebounding alot as time goes on. He will occasionally hit 2.0 depending on the content of his show but 5 nights/week, 20 per month; he will run out of content, start repeating guests and eventually fall away. Luckily for him its NBC and they need him.
Remember the report on here that NBC could stand to make 300 million off of Leno with a 1.5 demo? It hasn’t sunk that far yet, so NBC is laughing. The rest of the line-up is not so good, but if Leno does end up staying near a 2.0 demo, it’s a good thing for NBC. Why? It can finance other, money-losing series.
The biggest surprise to me was The Mentalist not carrying over its entire Tuesday audience. CBS needs to revamp this night, and it needs to do it soon. A 2.2/6 in adults 18-34 is dismal compared to what was going on here two or three seasons ago. The formula of Survivor + CSI + drama is not really working the way it should anymore.
The last time “Survivor” lost to regularly scheduled competition (not American Idol as a special airing) was to Friends, many years ago. Ugly Betty came close when it premiered, but not quite.
thirdsaint:
I showed the season 2 premiere to some family and friends that had never seen the show and they all pointed out the same problems:
– The show did a very poor job of familiarizing new viewers with the characters. For instance, no one who watched the premiere knew who “that red-headed woman” was or why she was important.
– The show moved very fast and gave the viewer little time for all of the info to sink in. So not only did the writers NOT allow viewers to catch up, but it was difficult for them to keep up too.
– No one knew what was going on with Olivia or why she flew out of that windshield so long after the accident. They thought the whole scene was completely confusing.
The consensus among everyone was that it seemed to them that if you weren’t familiar with the show already it’s very hard to jump in and figure out what’s going on.
Personally, I haven’t had that problem but, apparently, other people do.
I haven’t seen the full press release from CW yet, but will post when its available. Bur here were the ratings bullets from CW for last night:
VAMPIRE DIARIES retained 100% of last week’s audience in women 18-34 (2.6/9), adults 18-34 (1.8/6) and women 18-49 (2.3/6).
In fact, VAMPIRE DIARIES IMPROVED over last week by 6% in adults 18-49 and was up a tick in total viewers (3.81mil).
VAMPIRE DIARIES easily won the hour with female teens (2.8/12) and teens (2.2/9).
Beat NBC’s comedies in adults 18-34 and women 18-34.
Tied with Fox’s Bones in women 18-34.
SUPERNATURAL had tougher competition, facing the GREY’s and CSI premieres, but, held up well all things considered. SUPERNATURAL held 92% of last week’s adults 18-34 rating (1.2/3), 100% of its adults 18-49 audience (1.2/3) and 94% in total viewers (2.62mil).
In our first night against all original competition, The CW is up year to year in key demos, +7% in adults 18-34 (1.5/5), +54% in women 18-34 (2.0/6), +29 percent in women 18-49 (1.8/5), +43% in female teens (2.0/8).
A real shame for Parks & Recreation because it’s much better this season than last season. It’s funnier, the characters are better developed, writing is better. It doesn’t deserve to go the way of Kath & Kim.
I really hope NBC supports it despite the low ratings, the way NBC did with 30 Rock. 30 Rock’s ratings were horrific early on but it never got cancelled. Occasionally, NBC has shown that they will support and nurture a show with low ratings if they believe in it (as with 30 Rock).
Really, it’s way too early to say for sure whether Leno is a success. Right now, NBC is probably very happy with him, but what about next month? What about next year? It’s also really difficult to say whether his show helps/hurts other NBC programming in general. I’m inclined to say there’s little if any impact, but where’s the proof? And how exactly does one go about proving such a thing anyway?
How much was CSI down compared to its previous premieres?
annialation?!?!? No such thing occured!
Well if that number in 18-34 holds for the Cw that is up year to year from the 1.1 it had.
Like him or hate him, you’ve gotta admit NBC giving Leno the 10 hour has made this fall premiere season a lot more exciting than usual. We’ve all been speculating as to how it would go, what the reactions would be, etc and it’s not over yet. I give NBC some credit for taking the chance. It’s way to early to tell whether or not it will work out for them in the long run, (46 new episodes against 22) but they had some guts to try it.
I think FOX put FRINGE in that time just to let it run out of gas. As Andrea said, it was a “piggy back hit” and they knew it. What really can you do with a show that can’t hold up? A network can’t be expected to stick it behind something bigger forever just to keep it alive. They took the chance to renew it just in case it might grow legs; they gave it a chance. It didn’t work.
I think Leno may have run over Wilma’s cat in one of his 300 fancy cars.
In my perfect world, Fringe and Supernatural would clobber Grey’s and CSI every Thursday, but sadly I have to live in reality. I just hope Fringe does well enough to come back for another season. If not, FOX only has themselves to blame.
Two very good nights in a row for ABC. I’m far more interested in seeing Flashforward succeed than anything else ABC has shown me so far, just based on the premise and not seeing it yet. (2) Parks and Recreation – ughh. (3) Grey’s: great premier. I never liked the show, but a lot do.
I bet there are alot of people waiting for tonights number to be available tomorrow, myself included. Dollhouse, Smallville, Ghost Whispere, Medium, etc. Let’s see if CBS can twist the knife or pour salt in the wounds of NBC for snagging Medium from them and moving it to Friday night.
Typical Grey’s.
Fringe is getting slaughtered. I guessed it would, but a 2.3? Really?
And so much for The Mentalist replacing CSI. Hopefully it’ll go up next week.
Wow, Vampire Diaries ratings were up from last week and they had full competition now. Who would have thought that among all the nights, CW will have a good night on Thursday, the most competitive night on US Primetime
gmyers:
If you’re referring to my earlier comment, the annihilation did certainly happen. “SNL: WUT” and “Parks & Recreation” are pulling “Kath & Kim” numbers and “Community” could keep a 3.0 in the demo coming out of “The Office.” The whole night was a bloodbath. To use a Led Zeppelin title, NBC was “Trampled Under Foot.”
YourOldPappy:
Fringe isn’t going to run out of gas. By midseason the show will do respectably solid numbers, probably somewhere in the 7m range with something over 3 in the demo. All of the viewership was sucked away by big-hype premieres. Once the hype is gone the numbers will come back.
You know I think it is funny because last season (and I am predominately talking about last spring, end of 2008-2009 season) everyone that was a critic of the NBC show Chuck wouldn’t admit the fact that Chuck was up against a very difficult timeslot and it was getting throttled in the ratings, especially after Fox moved House to Monday nights, yet what is one of the first comments that I see about Parks & Rec and the SNL show? That it is getting throttled and it is because of the other shows that are on at 8pm. Isn’t it ironic?
@Bruce
You are absolutely correct, you can’t base anything on premiere week, give it another week or two and then you can make your comparisons.
@Lisa, CSI down 44% in the A18-49 demo from last season’s premiere, Robert has the numbers in the post.
i added the numbers for last year’s Grey;s and CSI premieres to the post, but:
GA: 7.4/18, 18.5 million viewers
CSI:7.0/17, 22.9 million viewers
Didn’t CSI and Grey’s Anatomy used to pull 20+ million viewers each? Both shows bled a lot of viewers over time but I wonder what to those viewers, cable? The broadcast competitions of both shows did not gain those viewers so it seems.
I wonder if NCIS is aired on Thursdays, would it be as competitive? Hmm…
forg, all the broadcast networks’ audiences went to cable, and they continue going there.
Fringe’s numbers are disappointing but actually pretty decent up against Greys, CSI and the Office. Greys made their premiere into ‘an event’ so it’s not surprising people who only watch the show irregularly would still check it out. Also, last season’s finale ended on a cliffhanger. Next week, I’ll go back to watching Fringe and DVRing Greys. What a piece of crap Greys has become!
I couldn’t believe the Mentalist’s ‘premiere’ was so hum drum. They didn’t make it special at all, just another episode. I thought it was decent, but this was an opportunity to snag more viewers and I’m not sure if they did that.
Wilma, it’s nice to see that someone around here gets the big picture. The fact that NBC has been a disaster programming 10 for the last few years is a non-argument. Programmers with terrible numbers can either throw in the towel and good for the cheap, quick buck, or try to build those numbers up by developing exciting, original programming.
A great example is ABC this year. They had plenty of holes to fill. Would it have been better for them to do something like the Leno move, or do what they did – develop exciting, creative programming to fill their schedule. It’s only been a week, but it seems to be paying off way better than a Leno move would have.
My best example of the Leno move on NBC is real estate. Prime time is like beachfront property. NBC has put a Denny’s up on beachfront property. Might make some easy cash, but they are missing out on a lot of long term dough in the future. And the Denny’s might be ruining the neighborhood.
grey´s anatomy sucks… it´s so buried, supernatural for me is the best… but the bad taste rules
The Vampire Diaries just got an order for scripts for the rest of the season, so I think it’s safe to say it’s here to stay … at least for this year. CW has been very pleased with the response to it so far. The fact that it was nearly in a dead heat with NBC in the overnights must make them ecstatic. I was not expecting them to do that well to be honest. CW is not available in all markets like the other four networks are. I thought last night’s episode was excellent.
I agree with you Isabella, GA… not good content.
Jon, You are correct, the CSI premiere last season was on Oct. 9, 2008.
So it sounds like us Fringe fans shouldn’t be panicking yet. I take it there are past examples that would show Fringe should go up a bit then after the dropoff? That sounds good to me, I hope it does.
What happened to Community? it’s not going to last with this kind of compeition, no wonder why it’s moving.
DS, I would go so far as to say that Vampire Diaries is the *only* good news for the CW so far this fall. Of course they’re going to keep it.
And the coverage differences of the CW vs. ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox to over the air only viewers is so tiny as to be nearly meaningless in the ratings competition. They are for all intents and purposes even.
I just wonder if the move is going to help or hurt Community. I’m hoping that NBC at least gives it a chance to grow. Signs show they will if we go by other comedies (The Office and 30 Rock) and so long as it gets better the ratings should eventually go up too.
Bill, you’re right about CW & The Vampire Diaries. That’s the only thing going for them right now. I’ll be very interested to see how Smallville’s move to Friday goes. If that show drops too, your statement will be right on the nose.
Karma baby. Karma.
if next week is more or less like this week, you can bet the chatter will start around “CBS should flip flop Tuesdays and Thursdays” since the advertising opportunity is better on Thursday.
But a.) not sure that next week will be more or less like this week and b.) not sure that’d be a good idea for CBS even if it is. I don’t think the NCIS duo would fare as well on Thursdays as it does on Tuesdays, but I’m sure people will be talking about it anyway.
How can anyone even compare GA with CSI this week. When a character almost dies or whatever happened on that show that I never watch of course it’s going to draw more viewers than CSI which had no cliffhanger appeal. When Sara’s life hung in the balance I’m pretty sure CSI drew 22 Million
Since I don’t watch the Mentalist I can’t really comment other than I hope it doesn’t suffer WAT’s fate (being moved every two seconds to supposedly strengthen CBS’s choke hold on ratings only to watch it lose viewers – and then eventually be cancelled for no good reason)
I doubt CBS will let that happen to their golden boy Simon (The Professor) Baker
“Its the best show of the year” …
“Its the new LOST” …
“It has the excitement of the early seasons of 24″ …
I should have known better than to have watched the premiere last night when the above quotes were released to the media about this show. When a new program has to rely on namedropping other successful shows in order to sell itself, RUN! Run away as fast as you can. I didn’t. Instead I spent 45 minutes watching this boring show full of boring people with boring futures I could care less about. I couldn’t even finish the entire hour because I just found myself rolling my eyes at it.
I wanted to like this show. It looked okay from the preview. Although initially I wasn’t going to tune in because I got so sick of the same preview for the past 2 months over and over again. However, the alternative was Vampire Diaries and that too is a really bad show that was only made for teenage girls to decide who is the hotter vampire. Just check out their lame messages on the cw’s board and you’ll see what I mean! lol
Anyway, I just couldn’t find myself connected to any of these people. Why do I care about some lady who gets pregnant in 6 months? Whoopty do. She spread her legs and didn’t use protection. Its not a miracle.
I don’t know these characters. Why should I feel sad, happy, terrified, or concerned for any of them? Plus, the whole concept of 7 billion people passing out having these visions is flawed. They don’t know that 7 billion people passed out. They didn’t talk to every single person on the planet! And so what that some people had the same “dream”. That doesn’t mean that the vision is going to become a reality. It could still just remain a “dream”. Why would these people jump to the conclusion that their visions will for certain happen in reality? It just doesn’t make any sense.
Even with the weak and weird concept, I could look past it if the dialogue was remotely entertaining. It wasn’t. I was bored almost to tears. This show is far from being a new Lost. While we didn’t know the characters in the very beginning, the show worked because it forced characters together on an isolated island, still recovering from the horror of a plane crash and seeing all the death around them. It forced strangers together. Here with Flash Forward people are free to continue their lives. Dust yourself off and move on. You have a vision of yourself eating pancakes in 6 months…and this is supposed to keep a person up day and night waiting for that moment? LOL …. so stupid.
If you like this show, don’t be offended because after reading messages on this and other boards, I’m the only person on earth who doesn’t like this show. So don’t worry, i’m sure it’ll be around for another 10 seasons
Thirdsaint,
I agree with you Fringe isn’t hard to follow at all. It’s not a show you can multitask and watch though. You have to give it your attention.
DW,
I wish supernatural and Fringe were pulling in the big numbers too.Of course in a perfect world they wouldn’t be competing either.
One could only hope you’re right on that last part Danny.
Well, except that I think 10 seasons of any show is overkill but I’d happily settle for 6 or 7, haha.
Robert, depending on how this season goes, I could see that being a logical conclusion for next season. You may be right about the outcome, but if CSI/Mentalist end up being consistently in the low-to-mid 3’s, I don’t think CBS would be smart to leave things as-is.
Mega64
How can you say the following? “I’m surprised that with more competition Survivor actually went up, especially since it’s such a weak season that has to rely on gimmick characters to not be completely boring” 2 episodes into the season?? – a season everyone is talking about because Russell is looks like Charles Manson and is just as hatable? The beginning of Survivor usually is boring but not this year.
Moving NCIS to Thursday might actually make sense… if CBS wants to take the risk that CSI will draw as many viewers against AI that NCIS does.
Critical consensus around Flash Forward is B-; four shows already-premiered supposedly are better. Still two buzzed shows for the network to go: V & The Middle…I’m very impressed with ABC. It smoked CBS in the demos which isn’t a shocker, but also beat CBS in every hour in total viewers when CBS usually wins thanks to lots o’ old people. If Flash Forward were at 10, I wouldn’t think much of the #’s since it would be after Grey’s, but this seems to bode well.
CBS is still good all-around, though I wonder if Mentalist will beat CSI soon as is expected.
NBC…well, they have The Office still at least. And are #2 in young adults. Fox…I wonder what shows pre-Idol will hit at least 3.0 when all’s said & done…cartoons, House, the show with House as a lead-in, and what I want even though it’s a pipe dream all, Dollhouse, though Glee may or may not just stay at that level.
I think that it is kind of funny that people are downplaying the results of Thursday. Industry insiders were all ready to anoit The Mentalist as the most watched program this season and it couldn’t even win its timeslot first week out!!! Any way you look at it, that’s big news. Once again, it proves the experts don’t know everything.
So House and GA, both in their 6th season are the big winners of the week. Lost, Desperate House wifes, CSI, NCIS, 24, all past their fifth season.
I do hope there will finally come a good new drama soon, cause what did we get the last couple of years? The only decent new drama’s I know are Dexter and True Blood, cable shows with 12 episodes a season. (and don’t say The Mentalist, cause I find that show very boring and I seem to be the only girl in the world who finds Simon Baker creepy)
Noo Fringe!!
Glad that Bones held on against FF..
RW, downplaying (at least by me) is probably too strong a word choice. But when it comes to The Mentalist I don’t think this week is highly indicative since it went against the Grey’s premiere and will usually face Private Practice. It will be interesting to see what TM does next week.
Ouch!
Leno got clubbed like a baby seal
As for The Office, remember its ratings significant increase when TIVO/Time-shifting viewing is added. I expect the same for Community too.
House Addict: I see what you mean. We can only hope that House keeps enough seasons going until better dramas that are actually interesting get made. Honestly, I think FlashForward is one of those and Fringe as well. I’m hoping V and Day One are good but I’m not holding my breath. We need networks to take some chances and pump out less procedurals that are typical and boring.
RW
Yes, The Mentalist has to be a big disappointment for cbs. They believed The Mentalist would pick up CSI’s slack. But I have a hunch cbs plans to split up the NCIS duo once they are sure the new show can hold its own. Cbs always has another iron in the fire. If CSI continues to slide, expect some kind of shuffle.
emily24, stop changing your nickname, it’s cowardly.
Does anyone know why Fringe was moved from Tuesdays to Thursdays? Tuesday is my DVR’s least busy day (next to Mondays – Just recording HIMYM) and I feel like it would have a better chance of survival on Tuesday over Thursday.
House Addict – I find Simon Baker creepy too LOL and I’ve never watched one ep of the Mentalist.
I’ll say this. People thought CSI could survive post-William Petersen. Guess not. Another network should offer him like 2M per ep to get him to sign on to a show on their network!
A few things to keep in mind:
1) This was Grey’s premiere event with a cliffhanger carryover – not necessarily indicitive of its regular performance nor the regular performance of Private Practice.
2) GA and PP rerun very poorly (and I would assume the same for FF based on Lost) so if CBS/NBC/FOX schedule new episodes on ABC’s rerun week, they should get a nice bump to the season averages.
That said, I am suprised at how the Mentalist performed. It wasn’t a cliffhanger resolution, but neither was CSI and CSI still beat it pretty badly in the 18-49.
‘annihilates’ is a bit strong isn’t it? getting about 17 million over about 15 or 16 million is hardly an ‘annihilation’.
$2M an ep for William Peterson? That is just outrageous. No network could ever pay any actor that much to be on a show. They would have no money for production of the show, guest stars, other stars, etc. Good idea, but not feasible. Remember when the last season of Friends aired? All 6 cast members agreed to be paid $1M per episode and only because it was their last season. For an actor to get that much, they have to have really earned it.
Looking up there at Fox’s silver lining for Fringe’s performance I see they note a +37% increase among Adults 18-49 and +58% in Total Viewers from this slot last year. For the experts, how much do they really care about something like that? Enough to keep the show in good standing with Fox?
I liked Flashpoint and I think it will continue to do well.I did switch over and watch the Office and Community (not finding it all that funny) and then Leno.I bet NBC wishes it kept My Name Is Earl for one more season.Thursday has got to be the most competitive night on network television.
aaronhotchner – Glad to know I’m not alone in this LOL
I’m worried about Flash Foward, It seems cool but im scared to get into it becuase of the ever present threat of canncelation
thirdsaint, assuming FOX moved Fringe to Thursday to improve the timeslot, then yes they would care about the year-over-year timeslot improvement. It should be alright provided theres not further erosion.
I think Andy just called FlashForward “Flashpoint”, a mistake I will likely make at least 100 times over the next 8 months ( plus calling Flashpoint “FlashForward” another 100).
Jon, sounds good then. I really hope that’s what they have in mind.
Robert, haha, I caught that too. I can see that mistake popping up from time to time.
“I think Andy just called FlashForward “Flashpoint”, a mistake I will likely make at least 100 times over the next 8 months ( plus calling Flashpoint “FlashForward” another 100).”
Ha! I thought I was the only one doing that.
VD almost beat SNL in the demo!?!?!
Robert, I was referring to the mainstream press. They seemed determined to designate The Mentalist this season’s surefire #1 show everywhere you looked. Yet, it couldn’t even beat GA in the first week, despite all the momentum it had in its favor.
Yay for The Vampire Diaries holding up well in viewers and demos
I don’t get why people are freaking over Mentalist numbers. It held up well against the other shows.
ouch to fringe…..
I like William Peterson but there is no way that he’s worth that much and for the likes of Friends, Sopranos, Frasier and Raymond it was a) the final season and b) the shows especially raked in big money both in the US and abroad so the network and the production could afford those salaries. I think Friends had only 17 episodes in its final season.
In the case of CSI, it was clear that WP was getting tired of it and in later season, there are episodes were he was hardly in it at all and he even took time off to appear in a play in Season 7.
I still think Thursday’s are too crowded. And I’m afraid its going to end a show, hopefully not Fringe. I still dont get why Fox decided to throw that show into such stiff competition, and not just competition, but against shows with similar audiences. It makes no sense to me.
a bad premiere in my opinion for flashforward.
csi better than the mentalist, like i was expecting.
fringe very bad for fox, should keep in other day. a reality in this hour is a better option for fox.
nbc no comments!
@pbssoon
Fox decided that they would air SYTYCD in Fall during the AI slots. This is instead of their usual policy of airing new shows during those three hours… and then canceling/banishing to Fridays those shows once AI comes back.
While on one hand it makes sense (why spend money purchasing and promoting three hours of new shows in Fall you know you won’t have room for once AI returns), on the other hand it leaves only limited slots to try out anything new: Glee & Human Target have to share one timeslot over the year, and Past Life apparently gets stuck trying to make an impression in December & January.
In additional, because Tuesday & Wednesday are fixed, all their other shows get wrung through the Monday & Thursday meatgrinders. Then again, all the other networks would kill to have the problem of having two days of the week completely and utterly locked up for half the year.
@RW,
As much as everyone thought The Mentalist would do really well in its new time slot, NO ONE would have expected it to have over a 6.0 out of the starting gate. The Mentalist’s performance last night was below expectations, but it wasnt’ nearly as bad as you seem to be making it.
The Mentalist kept nearly all its demo from last season and will likely grow when it isn’t facing a super-hyped premiere. It’s not a success story right now, but it isn’t a failure either.
I thought you couldn’t post ratings in chart for anymore.
I don’t think this would be the last season for Survivor or CSI like others said. Because of these two shows, CBS reached the top, being the most-watched network and strong second on adults 18-49 to FOX. Maybe CSI will be on for more season with different actors if the present actors decided to retire soon. Maybe Survivor would re-invent itself.??
the real 007 would have known what’s up almost a week ago.
LOL @ Robert
For very “good dramas,” at least according to critics:
6th season: Rescue Me
5th: Friday Night Lights
3rd: Mad Men & Breaking Bad & In Treatment (if it returns)
2nd: Sons of Anarchy
As for high-rated, last season was The Mentalist (plus 2 Fox shows thanks to great lead-ins, but given that one was down to 2.3 last night, well)…erm Brothers & Sisters is in its 4th season.
Hiya Bill,
FOX Development FAILS again:
“Fringe”: Viewers: 5.92 million (#4), A18-49: 2.2/ 6 (#4)
Hats off to ABC for this week…McPerson’s job was on the line…”Flash Forward” 9:30 numbers were very positive…great demo but not close to the 14 million plus viewers they thought.
“Flash Forward” has a lousy arc and audiences may not be patient enuff to see how things resolve by the end of this season…but…loads better numbers then “Glee” and “Flash Forward” didnt have that “American Idol” lead-in benefit like “Glee” when it premiered back in May.
Audiences are “creatures” of habit and due to the awful new dramas and sitcoms ABC put out these last three years…ABC became a “must NOT see TV” network…a la NBC.
But ABC just shifted “audience” perception…for at least this week.
FOX is known by audiences as a “Fails in the Fall Network”…waiting for “American Idol” to come back.
By putting all their eggs in the “Glee” basket…FOX DEVELOPMENT has once again…not changed the “audience” perception of FOX…in the Fall.
Sorry TV-philes but 6.6 million viewers and “Glees” slipping demo..now at 3.0…and heading into the 2’s…was not what FOX development is paid to do. Sorry! They’re gonna get axed!
Love always,
Emily
PS- now waiting for “Brothers”…look out below!!!
As for Good network dramas, oldies L&O, CSI, House, & Lost. And newbies Good Wife & Glee.
Greys had regained some of its “mojo” at the end of last season. The off-camera shenanigans with the sex tape and Heigle’s rants helped keep buzz going. That and ABC’s relentless promotion. But no show does relentless angst better than Grey’s and it was one of the better episodes last night. Viewers can and do return to older shows.
FlashForward is less enigmatic than LOST and there seems to be dozens of potentially compelling stories. If the writing and performances retain the quality, the lack of expensive explosions and crashes won’t be missed, Viewership should be decent even with the odd time period heading more female oriented shows. But it’s not the 80’s. Audience flow is more about the remote than the shows preceding or following.
Too bad about Parks. 14% drop from last week but it was a good episode. This show is waaaaay better than last season and better than Community, so far. I hope with loyalty to Poehler and Daniels, NBC will keep this show. Community is a diamond in the rough, Parks is all ready a diamond.
@emily,
FYI: Glee’s demo went up to a 3.1 in the finals, so it didn’t lose any demo viewers week-to-week.
emily24 – Fringe did do pretty lousy but it was up against Grey’s, CSI and Office (mostly the former 2). FOX might as well leave it there, anything else they put in the 9:00 slot is just gunna flop worse (last years Hole in the Wall)
What a chrock of s…
Leno is on at 10pm…AFTER all those other shows.
I watch TV the same as most “normal” viewers.
I tune into a particular show….
I don’t go….”Oh my god”….”I cant watch my favorate show at 8pm and/or 9pm because Leno is on at 10 !!!! ….
I must watch something else instead…something that has a good show following two hours later at 10.”
Yes..a lead in show can effect the ratings of a show that follows…
but NOT the other way around !!!!
Jeff
Just noticed the ABC press release touting Flash Forward as having the best 8pm premiere since the Sarah Conner Chronicles. Classic. Good work qualifying that by pointing out the NFL lead-in for SCC.
Awesome Job ABC
Those are low numbers for The Mentalist!!!!!!!
Flash Forward Great!!!!!
Holly, to be fair, Glee did go up to 3.2 the previous week. But I’m hesitant to even mention that because I don’t want to give Emily any ammo, no matter how insignificant.
I’m trying to avoid judging anything on the strength of last nights numbers purely because it seems unlikely (to say the least) that this situation is going to be replicated at any other point during the season. With that said the real point of interest will be next weeks numbers when the audience who tune out of Grey’s and CSI decide where (if anywhere) they’re going to go.
My guess is that next week Fringe, The Office and maybe Community all rebound at least a little as CSI and Grey’s in particular even out to what will be sustainable numbers. I’d also fully expect The Mentalist to jump up next week opposite Private Practice rather than the Grey’s opener so I’m not remotely concerned about that number right now. If there isn’t a jump next week then CBS may want to start getting a little worried about their decision to put The Mentalist at 10 although I still think its a good move.
Of course the real glaring issue here is the 8PM hour. FlashForward has the expected strong debut but its too early to judge how well its going to do long term. I kind of liked it although I wish to God they hadn’t run all the ‘next Lost’ advertising because that did more to turn me off of the show than anything else. NBC meanwhile have developed another problem on what was once a solid if unspectacular night for them. Clearly they need to rethink the 8PM half of the comedy block, the SNL specials aren’t working, which should have been fairly predictable when you consider there’s no Presidential election to prop them up and Parks is just becoming a huge disaster for them but what the hell do they do?
I’d guess for now they’re going to wait and see what Community does when it moves to 8PM but I’m not overly confident that’s going to end well despite the fact I really like Community and hope that it does well. They could I suppose shake the comedy block up, try The Office as an anchor for the night leading into Community or 30 Rock at 8:30 and 9 and then dump Parks at 9:30.
Of course the failing comedy block might be something of a blessing in disguise for them, if they have to pull Parks mid season (and it looks likely) then I wonder if they’ll slot 100 Questions or whatever the name of their multi-cam sitcom is into the Thursday line-up at mid season rather putting it on after a 90-minute Biggest Loser. And I call that a blessing in disguise because it means the successful 2-hour Biggest Loser block gets to stay.
“Holly, to be fair, Glee did go up to 3.2 the previous week. But I’m hesitant to even mention that because I don’t want to give Emily any ammo, no matter how insignificant.
Julia, people of her ilk don’t necessarily need ammo, just an audience.
@Julia,
SSHHHHH!!!
Bones isn’t going anywhere. After season 4 concluded, FOX ordered 2 seasons (5 and 6)
Yeah, 3.4 is low for The Mentalist, but I think it’s nothing to freak out about. I know it’s a WB show and if the ratings and demos aren’t outstanding, it will be an “On the bubble” show. However, as mentioned, Grey’s had a huge cliffhanger storyline that carried over into the season premiere. I think The Mentalist will get back into the 4’s as the weeks progress.
CSI was actually a really solid premiere. Again, it IMO will grow as the weeks progress. Plus, it’s a procedural drama and not serialized like Grey’s, so people can hop back aboard anytime.
Love Fringe, but taking the hit that it did wasn’t surprising at all. I know Fringe isn’t cheap to produce and needs ad dollars to stay on the air. But, isn’t the Ad money earned on Thursday’s quite high since it’s such a competitive day? Personally, I’d rather have FOX make an attempt to be competitive with 2 scripted dramas, than throw in the towel and air Are you Smarter than a 5th Grader, Hell’s Kithchen or Moment of Truth.
Seriously, does TVBTN advertise in mental hospitals? This site sure has a knack for bringing out the obsessive-compulsives…
FlashForward was solid. However, we will see if it’s ratings hold up. Serialized dramas like this have a really hard time holding their audience. Remember Day Break 3 years ago? It was supposed to be a fill-in for Lost. I recall it premiered to over 10M viewers, then sank faster than the Titanic.
I do think the critical acclaim that FF has been getting will help it sustain most of it’s premiere audience.
Doug: I’m not an expert on these numbers. But, yeah I agree it’s a little insane how people go nuts analyzing these numbers. For the avg. Joe, these numbers, especially the 18-49 demos that people here go nuts about are probably Braille.
The Winner of the week is NCIS in viewers does that mean move to Thursday @ 9???????
Yes / No
Where are the people saying that FlashForward would fail in it’s first week?
As with ABC’s Wednesday shows, I don’t know how many of those viewers will return in the upcoming weeks, but ABC’s promotional department has certainly built awareness of their new programs.
Doug, I try not to encourage the behavior by not engaging with them usually, but others, :::coughBILLJULIAHOLLYcough::: sometimes can’t help themselves.
emily24,
Did someone at Fox do you wrong in this life or a previous one? I ask because of your ire vs. Fox compared to, say, NBC which is being ground to a fine paste so far this season.
As for “Fails in the Fall”, almost certainly Fox is up vs. last season when we get the comparisons for the entire week. And assuming equivalent MLB playoff ratings to last season (which are the real wildcard in Fox fall averages), that they’re up for the entire Fall vs. last year. Then, of course, Idol and 24 will return and they’ll bury the competition again for the season.
Perhaps that’s what drives your Fox antipathy. The fact that they’ve stomped the competition in the season demos for as long as anyone cares to remember?
Even with the vitriol, it still is,
Always a pleasure,
Bill
Okay, why do my posts keep disappearing??
I’m glad that Leno’s show is tanking. His softball interview with Rush Limbaugh was a disgrace.
@Don J, “For the avg. Joe, these numbers, especially the 18-49 demos that people here go nuts about are probably Braille.”
And we, to borrow a phrase, aim to be Miracle Workers!
dsfsd because I keep deleting them. Use a real e-mail address, and we’ll see…
FOX is doing fine, the only trouble they are having this fall is the overall Fringe ratings. Everything else theyre doing fine in, except friday which hasnt premiered for FOX yet.
Doug (2), “Seriously, does TVBTN advertise in mental hospitals? This site sure has a knack for bringing out the obsessive-compulsives…”
I told Robert that Adsense campaign targeting state hospitals was a mistake!
Robert, you forgot to cough out Bill’s name there.
But, yeah, I’m guessing Emily was fired from Fox Development pre-Rice.
I wish that I could say that Fringe’s results are a surprise to me, but they aren’t.
However, I was reminded by Robert just last night that Fox isn’t trying to win Thursdays, they’re only trying to improve their performance there. They have done that, as last year, Thursday September 25th gave them a:
2008 FOX Kitchen Nightmares 4.489 2.1/5
2009 FOX Fringe 5.85 2.3/6
Those numbers are an improvement, though I do have to wonder if Fox might not have hoping for a bit more by replacing a reality program with a scripted one.
Julia, I did NOT forget. Look again!
AO, yeah, while Fox has improved, are they going to lose money by swapping Fringe for Kitchen Nightmares?
Sorry, Robert, I should be wearing my glasses.
I try not to encourage the behavior by not engaging with them usually, but others, :::coughBILLJULIAHOLLYcough::: sometimes can’t help themselves</i
You know you love us anyway
indeed
Fringe obviously has to cost a fortune to produce, especially the licensing fee FOX has to pay WB.
I’m just wondering if FOX is making their money back having it in this competitive timeslot. I heard the Ad money on Thursday’s is alot higher.
With Kitchen Nightmares, FOX wouldn’t have enough episodes to fill a 36 week schedule and would need a replacement. KN only produces 10-15 episodes a season. I know it got renewed for a 3rd season and I’m sure they have most of their episodes in the can.
Hi everyone,
I enjoyed FlashForward last night, but I have the same fear with that show I do with Fringe. I actually enjoy Fringe, but for those fans of the show that say it isn’t hard to follow or that it isn’t obtuse. Let’s face it, it is. There are episodes at times that do not move the serialized story forward at all and make no sense.
FlashForward seems to have set itself up to be a one season show unless they get really weird with flashbacks, one off episodes, etc..
So I will be very interested to see how the numbers are the next few weeks. I don’t think we can make any decisions about the success or failure based on a single week.
Bones was solid and Supernatural seems to be holding its own on the toughest hour on television. CSI is fine and I don’t think The Mentalist would do any better any other hour than the one it’s on.
I do wonder long term about Leno and the fact I don’t think there is a single night the show might win its time slot. With ABC coming back with Castle, the forgotten, and Eastwick along with the CBS weekly lineup Leno will always bring up the rear. I think Wilma’s points are valid (even if a little bit too rabid) that Leno may be a mistake for NBC in the long run. It is a little early in the season to really see the results though. Let’s see a few months from now where it all stands.
Thanks,
Lizard
Don J – Kitchen Nightamres was always being planned on getting replaced, by Hell’s Kitchen in the winter-spring. FOX’s fall thursday last year was a disaster, almost as bad as fall 2006. There was success with Fifth Grader and Lyrics but that success turned to failure when both were moved to fridays. The combo of Bones and Fringe is something that FOX plans on sticking with from now to May. Kitchen Nightamres will likely run on Fridays in the winter, after Dollhouse ends.
FlashForward was great entertainment, great storytelling. It’s how they should use the serial TV format.
Fringe has itself to blame for the dismal ratings. Don’t blame it on the competition. It’s my favorite show from last season, and after watching the season finale, I was so excited about all the possiblities for this season. With the field to itself last week, the show could have started with a bang, but the first episode was such a letdown. Last night’s episode was a cliche freak-in-the-family-closet time filler, yawn. The cast dynamic is kind of non-existent.
Don J, While I’ve never seen the show, but because I’ve never seen any extraordinary costs mentioned anywhere, and it’s a new show (which is likely the biggest cost determinant), I’d be surprised if Fringe was out of bounds expensive compared to other new-ish Fox dramas.
Lizardman, FlashForward’s producers have said that they will wrap up most of the questions by the end of this season, but there will be enough material for three seasons. They have it pretty well mapped out for all three seasons.
Are an inability to spell and co-dependency for a television show/network *requirements* to post, or are functioning humans allowed here too?
Thanks Julia, Very interesting. It just hit me as one of those shows that could lose its way.
I’m glad they at least have a plan.
Lizard
A show that has a plan and an exit is always better off than one that doesn’t. Thus, Lost > Heroes and hopefully FlashForward > Heroes too.
Wow, Fox actually found a way of turning Fringe numbers into something positive, I’m impress
Bill – I think FOX will find a way to save Fringe for a third season. They need dramas, and they got their fair share of them last season (all 3 were renewed). This season they have a lot of new and sophomore dramas so with Idol’s help, FOX can pick and choose what works.
Kozy – I’m watching Flashforward right now on Hulu, it looks great. If the show starts to lose viewers in a few weeks, ABC should move Cougar Town and Modern Family to Flash’s spot around midseason and air Lost at 9 and Flashforward at 8. That seems like a good amount of compatibility.
How can anyone spin that Leno is doing fine for NBC? Unless NBC has just decided they can’t win with scripted shows anymore and will trade poor ratings for cheap programming. If that’s the case, well bully for them, but it certainly doesn’t make them look like winners to the viewers.
Lizardman, when I saw the preview for the show, my question was, “So, this ends April 29, 2010?” The person I asked quickly denied that anything like that will be happening.
Hocky201, ” Unless NBC has just decided they can’t win with scripted shows anymore and will trade poor ratings for cheap programming. If that’s the case, well bully for them, but it certainly doesn’t make them look like winners to the viewers.”
(1) That’s more or less *exactly* what NBC decided for the 10pm hour (plus they didn’t want Jay to jump to 11:30pm on ABC).
(2) The knowledge of TV ratings in the general population is tiny, and the care about them is even tinier. Most people don’t know/care about “how well the network” is doing (even among visitors to our site, the network averages get almost no traffic). They care about their favorite shows. Jay didn’t kill anybody’s favorite show (except maybe My Name is Earl, and even that’s a connection that few would make), and so why would the wider TV viewing public even care?
Julia, Yes, that was my thought as well.
It always has amazed me that many shows get on TV based on an idea, but have no plan for an arc or storyline long term. For example, one of the reasons I think Supernatural has been so successful is it had a five year storyline built into it. Kripke knew where he was going from the start. With that kind of plan you can tweak it and not get sidetracked.
Thanks,
Lizard
Those are good numbers for FlashForward. I think ABC will keep FlashForward on at 8pm for a full season. I don’t think they will change it to put it on on the same night as Lost. Good numbers for Grey’s too. I bet FF and GA both go up after finals and once DVR viewings get added in to it. ABC must be really happy after Wednesdays and Thursdays premieres.
CSI: numbers are disappointing, brining Sara back didn’t do too much for the ratings, Grissom needs to return to boost the numbers
Come on, people! Supernatural has got the same schedule it had last year, which is the same schedule the year before, and the year before. The show has been in the same timeslot for years. Not to mention, last year and this year the show got the most promotion its had since moving to the CW. It has record low ratings for our show in that timeslot no matter how it’s spun. There are a million people actively tuning out between Vampire Diaries and Supernatural. People just aren’t tuning into the show – it’s that simple. No excuses.
OMG, Fringe numbers! Care someone to explain to me, is it really just a timeslot or people just aren’t interested anymore? I thaught Fringe would be next X-Files, with a lot of seasons… these numbers really shocked me. Prison Break had these numbers in it’s last season, so why the hell should someone say Prison Break had low ratings? OK, sorry, little offtopic, back to Fringe.
I’m shocked. 
@Rachel
Supernatural may have stayed in the same timeslot as it has been in the past four years but the other networks have changed their schedule.
Fox just moved another scifi/fantasy show into the same time slot. That means that viewers who used to be able to watch both (and there are quite a few of them) now have to watch one and DVR the others. In addition to that last night was premiere night Greys and CSI. Next week and the week after will be more telling as to how the ratings will settle.
It also doesn’t help that at the moment Supernatural has split up Sam and Dean, which a lot of the fans don’t like and I know of a few that skipped on watching it live to watch Fringe instead.
Bones is such a reliable show for fox, it always pulls in at least 2.7. you can understand why fox picked it up for 2 seasons. i would assume FF will drop off a couple of million and to mid 3’s in the demo over the next few weeks.
@Dexter,
Last year Fringe got a huge boost from airing after House then AI. This year, not only was it moved, but now it’s airing behind Bones against serious competition. There is no way it was going to keep last year’s numbers. It should rebound a bit next week when it’s not up against premieres, but don’t expect over a 3.0 in the demo this year.
for all freaking out over Fringe: this is what FOX has to say about it — and I know the notion that FOX really is just looking to put a stake in the ground and improve the night overall versus last year is a lot for some to grasp. But last night was within expectations:
Don’t worry about FRINGE. We expected it to take a hit given the new night and the competition, but its combination with BONES is doing exactly what we’d hoped they would do for FOX on the night: Lift our ratings and total viewers for the night. Last night’s telecast showed a lift of more than +25% in the adult 18-49 demo and more than +70% in total viewers versus our Thursday night average last season – so they are both in good standing as far as we’re concerned!
The CW must be happy- they getting bad news most of time. Hope Smallville gets 4 Mil+ .
Robert – thats exactly what I said about Fringe, theres no need to worry about it. The demo and reuglar viewers is lifted from last year so thats the best thing.
Tony – Its possible, ABC will move Flashforward to air with Lost on wednesdays. ABC always goes with compatibility, look at 9-11 on sundays and thursdays.
Fringe’s low numbers is expected. But it’s DVR ratings will be high. It’s at a HORRIBLE time slot. Grey’s anatomy? seriously? It needs to move NOW before it gets canceled by dumb ppl who put good shows in bad time slots and then complain about why their show’s doing so bad
Thursday ratings in Canada: Survivor wins the night
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/September2009/25/c9105.html
With their Thursday ratings outshining everything else on their schedule, maybe the CW (if it survives) should dump their strategy of aiming at Women 18-34 (or is it W12-34?) and do more fantasy/horror-style programming instead. The advantage of shows like Supernatural and Smallville (and maybe tVD, if there’s some action there) is that they appeal to both men and women, thus bigger potential audiences. (OTOH, this didn’t work so well for Reaper, but now Melrose, tBL, etc. are falling below Reaper’s average. But maybe it didn’t have enough female appeal. Needed to do more with the character of Andi, maybe.)
Maybe they’ll try to become the all-vampire channel. Vampire shows 10 hours a week! Ugh. They’ll probably come up with a catastrophic U.S. adaptation of the neat British dark comedy-drama Being Human, about a vampire, a werewolf, and a ghost who are roommates. It’ll look like Coupling U.S. or something.
Meanwhile, NBC’s 8 p.m. situation looks bad, but this isn’t really that far below their numbers at 8 p.m. last year. They’ve been miserable on Thursdays at 8 for a while. I hope they don’t actually move Community to that slot, thus killing it for good. Maybe if they move 30 Rock there, it can keep its head above water, now that it has a more solid fanbase than it did in its first two seasons. But probably not.
I meant timeslot – that’s just 8pm data.
Bill, Robert — in how much danger is “Fringe” really at this point, what is your take?
I don’t believe its ratings will go up again in any significant way, not again that competition….will this be good enough for FOX? I don’t even wanna think about losing this awesome show after only two seasons… (“Terminator” and, in all likelihood”, “Dollhouse” and “Southland” say hello).
FOX may lose Dollhouse, but not Fringe. FOX seems to have faith in that series.
Losthaholic – Well it is at a bad timeslot, but FOX did that on purpose. They thought a Bones/Fringe combo (while it may not get the best ratings)would still hold up OK.
By the way did anyone notice those Desperate Housewives promos in the backround scene on the Bus in Flashforward (starting at 18:00). Like that show needs any more promotion.
Yes, I noticed too, Dan. It was extremely blatant.
According to Ausiello’s twitter, The Beautiful Life is cancelled
Jay’s had pretty good audience’s this week despite weaker guestst than lsst… Peewee Herman and Rush Limbaugh aren’t huge draws but shows that Jay can get an audience on his own merit
I must be missing something with the Jay Leno Show Ratings. I come into these chats and some people in here are crowing about how great Leno is doing in the ratings. Yet, when I check the numbers, Jay usually always comes in last place and last night his total viewers were under 5 million. I just dont see how his show can survive past the first season with such lousy numbers
People were just tuning into Grey’s to see how everyone reacted to George’s death. (They reacted by laughing at his funeral, and having corny unrealistic outbursts at each other, and one acted like a complete unprofessional jerk to an amputee patient) The episode was one of the worst the show has had. Even most fans on the forums hated it, and I will guess the ratings will take a tumble next week.
The Mentalist was average, nothing special. Disappointingly so compared to its last season.
tom, because the Leno show is so cheap (reportedly 1/5 the cost of a drama per hour) that it can financially do fine on much lower ratings.
The ratings for “Parks & Recreation” make you wonder if NBC & Greg Daniel’s are seriously second guessing their decision NOT to make this a direct spinoff of “The Office”. I think in hindsight Daniel’s made a big mistake not taking up NBC’s offer to spin off Dunder Mifflin into a 2nd show. I think fans of “The Office” were ready for a spin off show with fresh characters and new storylines.
Wow Go Grey’s! Congrats to Shonda!
I think comparisons between season premieres are unfair and also misleading. eg: whilst CSI was down on it’s previous season’s premiere, it was up pretty significantly on it’s previous season’s finale – something of much more importance considering CSI’s plummet last season. I dont think CSI will return to the 20m range where it used to be but the downward trend has reversed….
Doug (2) – I’m surprised there wasnt a big Flashforward billboard, that wouldve been pretty funny.
Peter – I dont think a direct spinoff would have made numbers any better. I just think people are bored with the show and the SNL updates are dreadful. NBC should have premiered all 4 comedies on September 17, but they have to screw with everything. Anyway once 30 Rock comes back and Community slides in to its 8:00 slot ratings will be worse.
What does everyone think would be a better schedule.
8:00 30 Rock
8:30 Parks and Recreation
9:00 The Office
9:30 Community
or the current
8:00 Community
8:30 Parks and Recreation
9:00 The Office
9:30 30 Rock
Here’s an outside the box idea for NBC. Make The Office an hour comedy. It wouldn’t be hard considering all of the great deleted scenes the have for each episode on their DVDs. They would have more than enough material to make it an hour show. Plus they wouldn’t have to worry about replacing another bad comedy at the 8:30 slot.
8:00: 30 Rock
8:30: Community
9:00: The Office (Hour episode)
10:00: Leno
They did the hour-long Office thing several times, but I don’t think the fan response was all that good.
I bet an hour long Office would have better numbers than any of the other comedies they could put in that spot including 30 Rock.
Plus they’ve sold it into syndication so they’d have to make it so that they could break it into two 1/2 hour episodes thus defeating the point…
Leno is dead in the water. Good luck stealing more bits from Stern.
WOW!! FLASHFORWARD was Awesome last night!! I was on the edge of my seat the whole time and the previews for upcoming eps look fantastic! Loved the shout outs to Lost! I will definitly be sticking around for this one. Can’t wait till next week!
I love fringe wayyyy better than the other shows in the 9pm, Csi, greys and supernatural SUX, screw them all, Fringe totally deserves better numbers
I’m not on board with the optimism surrounding Supernatural – I think it will continue to drop as the season progresses. Even the first episode, which wasn’t up against heavy competition, failed to deliver Season 4 like numbers.
There’s a HUGE divide in the fandom over the show’s quality, both this season and last, and I think it’s finally taking its toll on the ratings.
We’ll see what happens, but I don’t see it sticking with VD next year (if it even gets renewed), and I suspect CW is already working on another Twilight-like show.
OTOH, I’m quite optimistic about Fringe and I think it’ll be able to settle in with higher viewers in the coming weeks.
Wow, over 8 million more people tuned into the 9pm hour than the 8pm hour. No wonder Bones did better than Fringe. Easier competition, comparitively speaking.
Man, Thursday nights suck for shows. It’s like the Boardwalk of the Primetime landscape.
I see more than one person noticed the Desperate Housewives promo in FlashForward. But what about the Lost one?
“FOX may lose Dollhouse, but not Fringe. FOX seems to have faith in that series”.
I like to believe that they have faith in both Fringe AND Dollhouse.
is it just me (probably, seeing no one watched it) but did last nights episode of Community just a major dissapointment
Not surprised by COMMUNITY’s drop. The second episode was so bad I had to stop it 10 minutes in. It’s only going to get worse…
This is only my second time on this site, and it’s shocking to see how little some of you know about the television business. Wilma is for the most part right. In the long run Leno is bad for the network, and, yes, his poor performance may be dragging down other shows. It’s like putting in a halfway house in a residential neighborhood. Sure, it’s cheap to manage, but it brings down property values all around it.
As far as NBC’s pronouncement that it’s be ecstatic with a 1.5 from Leno. Folks, surely you know that’s just B.S. to lessen their embarrassment if the show tanks? This is like pro wrestling. You can’t believe what they say. It’s called HYPE. Whatever number NBC needs to see from Leno, rest assured it is not a 1.5. THeir advertising budget for this show is huge! I’d guess they need to see something north of 2.0 for the show, which is probably not going to happen.
Jason, you don’t have to understand the TV business or be in Hollywood to do basic math. You could do the math in Las Vegas (I wonder what the odds of NBC pulling Leno are there?).
Leno could’ve had a $150 million marketing budget and still make money with a 1.5 rating. That by itself doesn’t make it a good move, mind you, but they don’t need to do above a 2.0 to make money. Also, NBC never said anything about being ecstatic about a 1.5. Zucker did say that a 1.8 would be a home run, and I agree in part that he was managing expectations. Though the ad rates indicate they’d make good money on the show at that level. That’s based on costs and doesn’t consider any of the downside issues outside cost/revenue for the show. So far, advertisers definitely aren’t shying away from Leno like it was a halfway house. Saying any of that hardly makes the show a success, but nor does anyone saying it’s an epic failure make it so.
No way Fringe is in trouble, Fox has put so much into it making it the next X Files.
Flash-forward reminds me of Prison Break, the 1st season. You wonder if there’s enough story to extend it onto multiple seasons.
Prison Break had a 2 year plan initially, but after it’s 1st season, it wasn’t very good, even though ratings went up in season 2.
I watched Flashforward, Fringe and Mentalist yesterday.
Recorded CSI and Grey’s.
I forget where I read it, but there was an interview with one of the writers of FlashForward and he said they have a 7-season plan for the storyline, that could be cut at 3.
As for how you extend it past April 2010, think about what the FBI leader said about halfway through the episode:
“Priority two is figuring out whether or not it will happen again.”
I just have to say a couple of things:
1. I thought FF was terrific, and the fact that its numbers improved in the second half hour from the first is a good indication of what’s to come for this freshman series — steady, even growing numbers with some help from the water cooler talk the day after it airs.
2. While NBC, the network, may be happy with a 1.5, their affiliates will not, and the local stations, as their 11pm local news numbers precipitously slide, will demand he disappear, maybe even threaten to replace him with their own local programming.
3. The Leno show represents all that is wrong with NBC: Zucker — a man (a network) with no brand, no vision, no understanding of the medium and effective network programming or how to cleverly re-invent its distribution.
NBC and Leno seem to be only speeding up the demise of the networks in their current form. And, while I think the networks need to redefine themselves and how they deliver product if they want to survive at all, I do not believe NBC/Zucker will ever be leading the charge … Put ‘em both in late, late, late, late night time zones… forever.
Fox had to have known that premiere night for ABC and CBS would dent into Fringe like it did. Fringe’s ratings last week were pretty good and it is one of the most DVR’d shows on television.
I don’t think Fox is too worried about Fringe yet, same with NBC and Community. They stuck by The Office, 30 Rock and My Name Is Earl because they were getting a lot of critical praise despite low ratings. Same thing so far for Community.
Clearly, viewers are leaning more drama for Thursdays these days. NBC should stack their best comedies on another night so at least they grab viewers somewhere on the schedule. They’re getting crushed. They should also supersize every episode of “The Office” for the rest of the season. It’s one of their best shows so they should treat it like a Law & Order. So if the wedding episode doesn’t get at least a 4/9 then it’s time to shake up the lineup. Although they must realize that most people that watch “The Office” do so online so that’s an issue.
And either move Leno to 8pm, cancel the show, or if the show is guaranteed for the season make it a web series. That was one of the worst decisions in television history. Awful. Most execs would have been fired for such a move. It’s a lose-lose-lose situation, so to speak.
LMAO!!!! Fringe 5.5 mil viewers!!!
I predict next weeks episode of “Grey’s” will sink sharply in the ratings. The show’s over the top plot lines have gotten too ridiculous. How the hell can Katherine Heigl’s character suffer from a 95% fatal rate brain tumor, beat it, die, then come back to life and everything is normal again. I’m sorry but ABC needs to fire Shanda Rhymes. They obviously played off on the “Is Katherine Heigl leaving or staying” rumors for ratings, and it looks like it temporary worked. But i don’t expect that to last for long. I predict next weeks episode will recieve around a 5.0 demo and 15 million viewers.
Ah, what is Kevin Reilly good for if not needlessly moving successful shows from Tuesday to Thursday so they can fall flat on their face. At least “Fringe” won’t have to suffer a slow, drawn-out death like “My Name Is Earl” did. In just one night, it’s already nice and dead. It took “Earl” 3 years to sink to ratings that embarrassing.
NBC, if you’re still planning to move “Community” up to the 8:00pm hour… yeah, my advice is don’t. The show’s got serious issues — beyond just the fact that “The Office” audience wants nothing to do with it. Then again, I don’t really know what NBC could possibly do to save this night. Putting “30 Rock” at the top of the night and flipping “Parks” and “Community” would give the comedies better flow… although it’s likely in the same way that rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic would give the deck better floor space.
Wow: you folks had quite the Friday ! The more I view your site, the more I am beginning to realize just how little people actually know about the business of TV. Good thing you are here to help put matters into their proper perspective.
I am not at all surprised by anything that happens during “premiere
week” or, perhaps I should say, through the month of September. History
has shown ‘me’ that October has been a better indicator of the health, or lack of, of most shows… think I’ll wait until then to really start the thumbs up or down process.
But Sep still counts…..just ask TBL.
I thought Shandra Rhymes script for Greys in many ways was pathetic Thursday. The characters Laughing at George’s funeral. When the line was uttered ” and George got hit by a bus” and they all started laughing I couldn’t believe it. It took me right out of the show and I lost respect for all involved. It seemed like a vendetta against TR Knight. Just really dumb.
chuck
Jrock – Not enough people would stick around for an hour long comedy. The Office has an hour long episode on October 8 but other than that its better to have the series last 30 min.
I actually though Community is a great series, I guess CSI and Grey’s really killed it.
Robert,
Advertisers aren’t fleeing Leno yet only because they all signed on before the horendous debut with the terrible ratings. Beleive me, advertisers care about the brand their company is associated with.
Look for an NBC affiliate revolt soon. Either that or Zucker gets fired and the new guy gets rid of Leno. It’ll be one of these 2 scenarios.
4.9 million viewers is awful lead in for local news. It’s one thing for a darma to get that kind of rating, because then the affiliates figure “Well the network is trying. tHey’ll cancel this with another drama till they maybe find the next E.R.” But with Leno the affiliates know “This is it. The long term plan. The network left us out to dry.”
Somethung’s gotta give. And what Gorman and others of you are missing is that the Leno show is flat out awful. At least a million of those 4.9 million viewers on Thursday will probably never watch again.
I mean the debut had terrible reviews. the ratings at that time were good.
CSI dropping from a 7.4 demo last season to 4.1! The downward slide continues. Loving it!
So much for TV Guide, USA Today & all these know it all critics saying The Mentalist will definitely become the highest rated show on television this season in its new time slot. It couldn’t even win its timeslot in the demos or total viewers. Ha! The Mentalist’s audience is way too old. It probably draw about the same as it did last year on Tuesday against AI – definitely not too shabby but far from hitting #1 every week! Most of the younger viewers out there will never get into it. It’s like a modern-day Murder She Wrote – nothing more. ZZZZZZ!
Jason,
I don’t have any preconceived animosity or love for the idea of THE JAY LENO SHOW and neither does Bill Gorman. Personally, since I don’t watch these kinds of talk shows whether they’re on at 11:30pm, 12:30am or 4pm in the afternoon, I would’ve much preferred scripted shows, with the hopes I’d be interested in at least one of them. On the other hand, it’s not reasonable of me to expect NBC to lose scads of money producing shows few people watch just to satisfy MY preferences. And so I don’t expect NBC to do that.
While I fully accept that when Zucker says things like “A 1.8 A18-49 rating would be a HOME RUN!” that he is indeed managing expectations, it’s not Seidman’s and Gorman’s or TV by the Numbers’ expectations he’s managing, it’s the advertisers (and to a lesser degree the cranky affiliates). These are the expectations that have been publicly set, for no other purpose than setting expectations! It’s not like NBC told advertisers “Yeah, we said that in public, but we think it’s going to average a 2.8!”
Amazingly, I think NBC actually set expectations fairly closely within the range of what was reasonably likely to occur. If a 1.8 is a home run then a 1.5 is still a hit, (albeit only a single), and setting aside what the broader ramifications may or may not be, given the cost of the show, it’s certainly possible for them to make a lot of money on it with a 1.5 average 18-49 rating. That doesn’t make it good, holy, just and right…just very profitable only looking at the one particular show (and not considering impacts on Tonight Show or other NBC shows).
But the notion that the advertisers (and affiliates) expectations are greater than what NBC led them to expect isn’t a concept I can wrap my brain around. Sure, they could HOPE for better, but expect it? Why would they?
Even though a lot has been said on whether “Jay Leno” is harming the other shows on NBC, perhaps an article devoted to this topic is in order??????
Bob, if this was a different blog we could just “Blame Jay Leno!” and then list all the year-over-year decreases, then state it as a fact that it’s Leno’s fault!
But Ghost Whisperer on CBS premiered last night down 12% from last year. It doesn’t air on the same network as Leno, but do we blame Jay Leno for that, too?
Kidding aside, I’m not sure what kind of quantitative analysis could be done, What did you have in mind?
@Bob Terns, “Even though a lot has been said on whether “Jay Leno” is harming the other shows on NBC, perhaps an article devoted to this topic is in order??????”
The idea that The Jay Leno Show is hurting earlier NBC primetime shows is utter anti-Leno rage nonsense. He airs at the *end* of primetime. And his first week was the best 10pm week NBC has had outside of the Olympics in a very long time, so he didn’t reduce their promotional opportunities.
He could harm the late local news (remains to be seen, and we may never see the data to know), and possibly the Tonight Show (for a variety of reasons, audience talk show fatigue, guest conflicts, etc.), but the idea that he’s responsible for what? Heroes tanking? C’mon.
The only potential argument that’s even somewhat credible is that his show caused Law & Order: SVU to shift timeslots which could cause audience loss. By that token though, who do you blame for the potential loss of The Mentalist audience after it moved timeslots? Jay?
I agree Flashforward is a very, very interesting concept as opposed to “Life on Mars”, and they put it in a very good night (no one watches Ugly Betty anymore anyway)
Grey’s pulled in similar numbers to those of Gil Grissom’s last episode on CSI (I think it’s time to put that show to rest). Survivor what? I don’t know why people would keep watching that. It’s been a decade, for heaven’s sake.
“Parks & Recreation” is up there for the same reason that stupid “30 rock” show got all the emmys.. someone is paying the big bucks. None are funny, and it shows in the ratings.
Fringe and Bones will do a lot better in January when American Idol comes back.
Edwie – The only reason Ugly Betty is still on is for syndication. I hope Bones and Fringe do better and Parks’ ratings are as expected, really bad. To think NBC used to axe comedies if they had a low of 9 million viewers.
People seem too focused on just the TV ratings IMO.
I don’t know how ACN factors in DVR numbers for shows when they go head to head which probably suppresses true viewership. I am also not sure how the other mediums factor in to a shows overall profitability. For example what is the impact of season passes on Apple TV or Ipods, and traffic going to Hulu or the networks own websites to view episodes, on driving the revenue models for these shows.
As for the shows, we thought Flash Forward was great and it is getting good word of mouth around here (NEast). CSI’s drop off was expected but hardly a cause for major concern for CBS who should be milking this show in its last few wind down years.
The Mentalist will not draw the viewership it did last year in a 10PM slot. We call it “Monk She Wrote” at home. With a low violence and grizzly factor when compared to most CSI shows it probably drew a fairly good mixed audience in earlier time slots which they will lose in a 10 PM slot on any night – bad move by CBS.
I am so happy with Grey’s numbers. I thought it was going to be one of those photo finish races, and I am so proud that Grey’s pulled away from the pack. Finally, it beats CSI… a show I can’t stand for the life of me!
Hopefully, this trend will continue!
@Fred, “I am also not sure how the other mediums factor in to a shows overall profitability. For example what is the impact of season passes on Apple TV or Ipods, and traffic going to Hulu or the networks own websites to view episodes, on driving the revenue models for these shows.”
Today, they factor in so little as to be meaningless.
flash forward was good.
Nielsen ratings are a joke. I think they need a new system.
Big mistake moving Fringe to Thursday nights. I hope it will not be cancelled after this season due to low ratings because it is one of my favorites. I would rather watch it than CSI.
Putting FRINGE up against CSI and Greys was not a good move. I wonder how many DVR’d FRINGE?
FRINGE should have remained where it was on Tuesdays. Now it has HEROES-like numbers and HEROES is almost certainly gone after this season. HEROES hasnt been good since the next to the last episode of Season 1.
Hope Flash Forward survives. Alot depends on what the cause of the Flash Forward was and when the next one will occur. Since the flash was only 6 months ahead, there has to be more of them. It was nice having an OCEANIC AIRLINES (LOST) billboard in the background of one scene near the beginning. The one thing that bugged me was quickly things seemed to get cleaned up after all those crashes, deaths and injuries – especially the hospitals – they should have been a mess for weeks with all the injured. I guess the funeral business would be booming after an event like that.
Nielsen ratings are a joke?
Well, so many have tried new systems and failed. The problem is a better system would too expensive for advertisers. Trying to monitor all viewers would be massively expensive, not to mention alot of people dont want what they watch recorded in some database. If better cost effective system were developed advertisers would be using it – the cost effective part of the equation is the hardest nut to crack.
Over all all the networks must be content with all of the Competition – except NBC…which is funny – they used to own Thursday nite for what seemed like 2 decades…
and to those that think CBS is going to Move the original CSI – you’re wrong —CSI is down from average but up from last year – and now that the hype of Grey’s is over it will be a much closer race…and by the way – THAT WAS THE COOLEST OPENING TO CSI – in any CSI history !!!!! Long Live CSI – the original…
I really dont think FOX will cancel Fringe after moving it.
I really want to see “Community” succeed. It’s a smart show, and all of the characters are great (really digging Senor Chang). Also, the community college setting has awesome potential. I hope NBC is willing to stick with it. This is the kind of little show that gains momentum through word of mouth.
Supernatural is operating miracles on Thursdays. Such a shame, does the CW think that the best show they have would be competition for the big sharks on the other channels?
Why don’t they move Supernatural for more quiet seas and leave their precious Vampire Dhiarrea (man, that show is lame!) to be crushed by GA, CSI and The Office?
SPN is the best show on tv right now.
Kieran – Community has good reviews so it along with The Office and 30 Rock are all safe. Despite not so good ratings, Community is likely to get a second year.
Vicki – CW wants newer series to succeed. Supernatural has already proved itself so as a veteran its likely to stay in its 9pm slot. Yet its a younger veteran than Smallville so unlike Smallville it wont make the giant leap to fridays any time soon. CW will leave The Vampire Diaries on thursdays at 8 for a while.
I cannot believe that people are so hard up for entertainment they are actually still watching that tripe of a nightmare – Grey’s Anatomy. I mean seriously people – get a life! Watch something that is at least challenging to the mind! You should give The Mentalist a go. I watched Grey’s until last season when it suddenly – finally – thankfully – struck me that it was the most colossally ridiculous excuse for tv programming I have ever seen – and I’ve watched a lot of really bad tv. I beg you people – please – tune out.
Did anyone else notice the Oceanic Airways billboard in the Flash Forward premiere?
I think FLASH FORWARD IS A WEAK SHOW. Except for the graphics they used IN the pilot, it lacked and the shows premise didn’t make me want to watch the next episode. This is no LOST! Also, it’s too bad last seasons “KINGS” was cancelled after what 4 shows? They should offer that as a reboot because there was no other show like it. Fiennes is an interesting choice for Flash Forward but I don’t think I can stand his brow furrowing, gun in hand look that is so predictably used by actors these days.