| Scoreboard |  |
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|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Rating/Share: Adults 18-49 | 1.7/6 | 1.4/5 | 1.2/4 | 0.8/3 | 0.7/3 |
| Total Viewers (million) | 7.69 | 6.55 | 4.64 | 2.22 | 1.91 |
Last night Dollhouse slipped to a series low 0.8/3 with adults 18-49 and averaged 2.1 million viewers. Night’s full details coming soon.
Sure, it was a very slow Friday for broadcast where the night’s highest rated show with adults 18-49, Medium, pulled only a 1.8 rating with adults 18-49. Speaking of Medium, you can enter to win Medium’s fifth season on DVD. Ten people will win, if they are eligible and good at predicting how many people will watch next Friday’s episode. Last night Medium averaged 7.719 million in preliminary numbers
But that’s not good news for Dollhouse. And sure, Syfy airing Stargate Universe (we will hopefully see the numbers for it later today, if not, I’m sure we’ll see them Monday) couldn’t have helped, but dropping below a 1.0 can’t be what FOX had in mind with its lower expectations for Friday. And people bailed on Dollhouse out of ‘Till Death! The half hour viewer numbers for FOX just got worse each half hour between 8p-10p (2.42M, 2.29M, 2.19M, 1.99M). FOX didn’t edge The CW by much on the night in either viewers or adults 18-49, and The CW’s night included an hour of an encore of America’s Next Top Model.
Interesting that the wisdom of the crowds theory works again as it seemed a 0.8 rating was the consensus forecast for Dollhouse last night in the comments of a post discussing Dollhouse ratings. I was cowardly and picked a range of .8-1.1.
It will be interesting to see whether Friday night ratings pick up as we get further into fall and Daylight Saving Time, or stay the “no show gets a 2.0!” graveyard it was last night.
full details(now updated):
| Time | Net | Show | 18-49 Rating/Share | Viewers (Millons) |
| 8:00 | CBS | Ghost Whiperer | 1.7/6 | 7.63 |
| NBC | Law & Order | 1.2/5 | 6.68 | |
| ABC | FlashForward (R) | 1.0/4 | 3.76 | |
| CW | Smallville | 0.9/4 | 2.39 | |
| FOX | Brothers | 0.8/3 | 2.42 | |
| 8:30 | FOX | Til Death | 0.8/3 | 2.29 |
| 9:00 | CBS | Medium | 1.8/6 | 7.72 |
| NBC | Dateline NBC | 1.7/6 | 7.48 | |
| ABC | The Forgotten (R) | 1.0/3 | 3.97 | |
| FOX | Dollhouse | 0.8/3 | 2.09 | |
| CW | America’s Next Top Model (R) | 0.5/2 | 1.43 | |
| 10:00 | CBS | Numb3rs | 1.6/5 | 7.73 |
| ABC | 20/20 | 1.6/5 | 6.18 | |
| NBC | The Jay Leno Show | 1.5/5 | 5.49 |
You can see TV ratings from other recent Overnight ratings reports here.
Nielsen TV Ratings: ©2009 The Nielsen Company. All Rights Reserved. Source: Marc Berman/Mediaweek.
Definitions:
Fast Affiliate Ratings: These first national ratings, including demographics, are available at approximately 11 AM (ET) the day after telecast, and are released to subscribing customers daily. These data, from the National People Meter sample, are strictly time-period information, based on the normal broadcast network feed, and include all programming on the affiliated stations, sometimes including network programming, sometimes not. The figures may include stations that did not air the entire network feed, as well as local news breaks or cutaways for local coverage or other programming. Fast Affiliate ratings are not as useful for live programs and are likely to differ significantly from the final results, because the data reflect normal broadcast feed patterns. For example, with a World Series game, Fast Affiliate Ratings would include whatever aired from 8-11PM on affiliates in the Pacific Time Zone, following the live football game, but not game coverage that begins at 5PM PT. The same would be true of Presidential debates as well as live award shows and breaking news reports.
Rating: Estimated percentage of the universe of TV households (or other specified group) tuned to a program in the average minute. Ratings are expressed as a percent.
Share (of Audience): The percent of households (or persons) using television who are tuned to a specific program, station or network in a specific area at a specific time. (See also, Rating, which represents tuning or viewing as a percent of the entire population being measured.)
Time Shifted Viewing – Program ratings for national sources are produced in three streams of data – Live, Live+Same Day (Live+SD) and Live+7 Day. Time shifted figures account for incremental viewing that takes place with DVRs which are currently in approximately 24.4% of all U.S. TV households. Live+Same Day (Live+SD) include viewing during the same broadcast day as the original telecast, with a cut-off of 3:00AM local time when meters transmit daily viewing to Nielsen for processing. Live+7 Day ratings include incremental viewing that takes place during the 7 days following a telecast.
For more information see Numbers 101 and Numbers 102.
Versus premiere night last year, Smallville outperformed our comedies by +25% in adults 18-49 and +25% in total viewers.
Ouch…
This is starting to get ridiculous…
Cancel this show already!
Wow, good-bye Dollhouse.
I bet the CW beat it last night, or at least came very close…..how sad
As a big dollhouse fan I just don’t get why they move to a different I don’t get if a show does bad on Friday from the first season y not move to another instead of 2 days of sytycd make sytycd 1 day and dollhouse the other
R.I.P. dollhouse
Don’t move it I meant ((::
I guess Fox is going to cancel it within the next 2 episodes…
I think people focus too much on the ratings, nearly everyone on here last year said that Dollhouse was going, and did it? NO. If it gets cancelled then i’ll be so pissed off as I love this show, but I am not spending my time each week worrying.
OMG
Everyone got their bingo cards ready?
LOL what a fitting picture @ the top of the page – everyone working at Dollhouse should be worried.
The axe is being sharpened, there’s no doubt about that anymore. A repeat of practically ANYTHING will pull better numbers than this show.
Well I’m not surprised. They evidently didnt learn half as much as they said they had following last season. Where was the nmythology? Where was anything leading to the fantastic things to come we were teased with in epitaph? Why they chose to screen a standalone second is beyond me! Personally, it’s my least favourite episode yet and seems like a reversion to the Eliza Dushku show of the first five episodes.
Good riddance.
too bad thought the episode was great
hard for new viewers to understand though
i hope its not done for
Brothers down to 0.8/3 as well
Just can it
Nailed it!
I don’t get why people hate Dollhouse so much :\
i guarentee you 100% fox will not pull dollhouse until it airs all 13 episodes and it even still get a back nine for the same reasons Til Death is still alive
Seconded. Though after the horrendous pilot – it was never going to be easy to retain a high viewership
*i meant it could get a back nine the 100% is on just all 13 airing
Smallville got 2.38 million !!
It’s going to be down to the die-hards to keep even that figure steady next week…Instinct was absolutely not strong enough to retain any new viewers
So, Tar, what do we get if you’re wrong.
Julia- how about no similar comment on other shows +a virtual dollhouse whiskey
I’m allergic to real whiskey, but I suppose a virtual one won’t kill me.
Ouch – it dropped under 2 million during its showing
Smallville !!
wow the forgotten repeated better than flash forward
What they really need is an episode in which Dushku is for some reason required to crab-walk for 20 minutes, I suppose.
CW should pair VD repeats with Smallville.
Whoa!
If 1.8 was the highest demo last night, I’m super worried about Ugly Betty’s return at this point…eek.
And once again, even on a SLOOWWW night, Jay held at his “breakeven” threshold of 1.5…not too shabby.
Forget Dollhouse, can we please move Smallville to a better night.
Do the ratings for Smallville INCLUDE the New York ratings which didn’t air the show for some sports game? Just wondering if the numbers will be lower.
This is backlash from the TSCC fans. They said the wouldn’t watch Dollhouse and they meant it. Those TSCC ratings are looking much better now.
It confuses me to why people would rather would watch a repeat than a brand new episode of another show.
Do people really prefer to watch the repeat much later than the original airing when they could watch it almost immediately after taping it or watching it online.
Also WAY too many cop/crime/reality shows on TV. So damn repetitive and unoriginal. But I guess the average viewer is too lazy to switch the channel and follow a different show that has an actual plot.
No wonder network TV is dying.
Autumn, I would assume that the Mets game would affect Smallville the same way the cubs game affected the 90210/Melrose Place numbers in Chicago.
Julia says:
“I’m allergic to real whiskey, but I suppose a virtual one won’t kill me.”
What’s the allergen peculiar to whiskey?
Bill wasn’t there the baseball game on cw last night??
That Dollhouse episode was atrocious. From its ratings to its quality, you certainly can’t accuse Dollhouse of being consistent.
Marco469, I doubt that it was the backlash from the TSCC fans. There weren’t that many of them, and the show’s ratings were collapsing before TSCC was cancelled.
Ouch-SMALLVILLE beat Dollhouse.
Autumn: yes, the NY sports ratings are included and the final numbers will be lower.
Chrisjozo, how did the cubs game affect Melrose Place. Were the ratings counted at first? And then the real numbers were given?
Gluten. Also allergic to beer and vodka. It sucks.
Oh, thanks Chris!
SMALLVILLE beat BROTHERS too, let me update that table…
I’m wondering, if you sort your tables for 18-49Rating, dont you think smallville should be ahead of brothers. Not that matters but it’s interesting to watch cw beating fox.
To have any chance I think DOLLHOUSE needed to come out swinging with unbelievable episodes. While OK, these first two aren’t going to bring people in (or even get people to tell their friends!). I honestly can’t recommend this show to anyone.
Episode 2 was so full of season 1 threads, anybody new watching probably had no idea what was going on…that’s OK if you’re LOST, but when your ratings suck…uh…
There can be any no doubt this show is done, nothing will save it now. FOX tried, but honestly I don’t see how they couldn’t expect this. I mean they set it up to fail: 1) non-existent marketing (I think TVBTN promoted it more than FOX; lol), 2) terrible mismatched lead-ins; seriously, a zombie show and a sitcom with a football player?, 3) TSCC angst (clearly when TSCC died, it took a big hit).
I just hope it’s not pulled before Summer Glau comes on!
LAW & ORDER is getting closer to GW.
So if CW filled the 9 pm slot with something other than repeats, they might actually be beating Fox on Fridays. I’m not a Reaper fan, but I’ll say it anyway. CW should’ve put Reaper there!
Wow at the Dollhouse numbers.
Serves Fox right for renewing such a lowly rated show. With the way Dollhouse shed viewers throughout its first season I don’t know what else they could have expected to happen.
chrisjozo says:
“Autumn, I would assume that the Mets game would affect Smallville the same way the cubs game affected the 90210/Melrose Place numbers in Chicago.”
Which worked out to about a 94%->91% discount in CW coverage, as I recall.
I think last night’s episode was a disaster. I felt the souls of people leaving in the first five minutes, despite the Van Halen joke. Anyone just walking into the episode from the previous show would have had no reason to know what was going on nor to take an interest in any of the characters.
I think next week’s episode of Dollhouse will have even lower figures than this week’s unless Fox doesn’t some pretty major marketing, which they’re not going to do. I’m certain this week’s drove away viewers.
Fox has recorded most of the episodes by now, as I understand it, so there’s no point whatsoever in them failing to show all 13 episodes. They almost have to – how else are they going to claw back some of the costs?
Robert, I am trying to remember, but I don’t think TSCC ever did below a 1.0 in its 2 season run.
No matter how cheap Dollhouse might be to make, it has to be near a flatline. Firefly and Dark Angel got canceled with much higher ratings than this.
@marco469: LOL!
General comment: This is crazy. Not just Dollhouse (which got what pretty much everyone predicted), the entire night is crazy!
IM SORRY FOR DOLLHOUSE. ILL MISS IT…WHAT IT FOX RUN FRINGE’S REPEATS OR EVEN BONES’ TO SEE IF THE RATINGS CHANGE A LITTLE?? IS THAT A POSSIBILITY AT THIS POINT?
TVBTN Guys, I think you need to give Julia a cookie.
Or maybe title of Official Prognosticator Of The Website.
Or something. You run the site, make something up!
But that wasn’t a ridiculous guess. Since coming here, I have never seen a show improve on its premiere numbers. They ALWAYS go down. This was a given.
Which worked out to about a 94%->91% discount in CW coverage, as I recall.
New York is a bigger market though. Even though it is only two spots above Chicago, it covers more than 3% more of the country. Coverage will probably drop below 90%.
i needed a good laugh today and those Dollhouse numbers made me laugh but the poor Medium numbers make me sad.
NBC has to be kicking themselves over that Southland pickup. Dateline will outperform their second+ episodes by, what, 50%? 100%?
ABC moving back Betty was a goof – your premieres might see more action on Fridays, but weak second episodes won’t.
I just don’t see Dollhouse getting a backorder (nor would Lie to Me be worth airing on Fridays). What are the Dollhouse vs. Medium Live+7 numbers? It’s clear Dollhouse will never do better than reality shows Fox has dumped there before – too much of their audience has given up and won’t come back.
@Michael: I’m a TSCC fan and I do not watch Dollhouse S2 as a matter of principle
The numbers for CBS is so low! I hope they could go back to 10 million viewers and above 2.0 demo
If only CW, scheduled something new (or a VD repeat I guess) they could have beaten Fox over all.
Not that it matters, Forgotten rerun built in FlashForward rerun in total viewers.
With CBS shows even down, my prediction for Ugly Betty is premiere is 4.5 million and 1.7 demo. But I strongly hope I’m wrong.
what a ridiculous statement. Screwing yourself out of a truely fantastic show (bar last nights ep) over your bitterness about TSCC
I can’t wait to see Joss’s Biggest Fan post about these numbers.
Actually, will any non-premiere hit 2.0 on Fridays this year? Maybe GW in the depths of winter, but that’s about it.
You might as well completely drop Friday off the 18-49 index (not just add a disclaimer, but remove from the math), as it hides the weak performance of some shows.
“I guess Fox is going to cancel it within the next 2 episodes…”
There was a topic here on how long DH would survive. But unless they pull the show from the air, there’s really no way to prove when Fox axed the series. They may withhold the information and let the remaining episodes air.
“@Michael: I’m a TSCC fan and I do not watch Dollhouse S2 as a matter of principle
”
Same here.
Like many I watched SGU, but recorded it. I’m glad I did considering how slow the premiere was. Overall I enjoyed it a bit more than the Atlantis premiere.
Here comes my inner geek: A couple years ago Earth gets handed to them incredibly advanced ship upgrades from an alien ally. They somehow forget this development last night. Por que…
@Michael Wasn’t JBF in the hospital last week due to the poor performance of the premiere? Clearly, he must have died this morning after seeing these numbers.
Julia says:
“Gluten. Also allergic to beer and vodka. It sucks.”
I can imagine–celiac is a not-infrequent topic on the WGN overnight show I often listen to. But there shouldn’t be gluten in potato vodka, at very least (as there’s no gluten in potatoes).
@Benito: “…a truely fantastic show…”
Have you seen the ratings?
Tom, Live+7 numbers lag significantly. I can’t promise you WE will see them anyway, but whether we see them or not, the numbers for LAST Friday won’t be available until a week from Monday.
If JBF is dead, there is no reason for Dollhouse to exist anymore.
@jani74 yes, as a matter of fact I have! But I dont see this as an indication of the show’s quality. The simple fact of the matter is – intelligent drama struggles. Fringe’s figures are down and are only saved by the fact that theyre not on Fridays
I think NYC’s market is right about 9% of the country.
I can imagine–celiac is a not-infrequent topic on the WGN overnight show I often listen to. But there shouldn’t be gluten in potato vodka, at very least (as there’s no gluten in potatoes).
Have you ever had potato vodka? It’s even worse than wheat vodka. But I don’t miss vodka much anyway. I miss beer and scotch and bourbon. But I console myself with rum and hard cider.
nobody marveling at the triumphant return of ‘TIL DEATH!? 100% retention out of BROTHERS in 18-49, and 95% in viewers!
woow Friday night is a killer night for americans..
I wonder what Fox will put next year if Dollhouse and Brothers are cancelled.. I hope not Fringe or Bones (my favourite shows)
I think NYC’s market is right about 9% of the country.
I don’t have this year’s numbers handy, but last year it was around 6.5%, and I believe it lost households.
Despite endless evidence to suggest otherwise I still think Fox is going to let Dollhouse air all 13 episodes, I am however souring on my thoughts that more episode orders will follow. With that said whilst I thought it would stick at a 1.0 this week I can’t say I’m shocked its fallen I will however be surprised if it falls again next week. And hey at least Fox was consistent last night – all three shows score a .8 in the demo. Sure they were consistently bad but consistent none the less.
On another Dollhouse note I don’t think dropping below a 1.0 is the biggest mark against its name getting beaten by a repeat of the forgotten (which isn’t long for this world) is a much bigger deal. On the subject of the forgotten, why the hell is ABC airing repeats of that anyway? I know its Friday and no one really cares but seriously you couldn’t repeat something that you aren’t on the verge of axing?
And look Medium beat Ghost Whisperer last night. That might be an interesting thing to keep an eye on.
At this point, would it just be more profitable for Fox & the company who produces GH to simply CANCEL Dollhouse?
That way, Fox will undoubtedly get better ratings with some repeats, and Dollhouse can then sell TEN episodes as a big DVD bundle – with a hefty price tag. I’m sure all the Dollhouse “diehard” fans would go and buy the set….and this show can be put out of its broadcast misery.
GH = DH…
Anonymous, I was wondering where General Hospital came into the equation.
Yeah but the Mets suck so how many New Yorkers watched that game lol
Low numbers for CBS is 7 million? Why do people watch CBS so much? All CBS shows are episodic (CSI, NCIS, Numbers) or comedies (2 1/2 men, BBT, HIMYM). This just shows that the majority of america don’t know what good television is and are too lazy to get into a good show that has a continuing story. I guess everyone would rather just see a show where the same thing happens every week. Example: CSI, they find a dead body, they investigate, they interview people, they solve the crime, then the killer makes an emotional confession, then cue the music. Look at any episode of CSI and this is basically what happens. It’s so aggravating.
WTF? Why though? I really dont understand how this can be…..fox, change dollhouse’s schedule already. Maybe it’ll help..doubt it but worth a try.
Too bad MyNetworkTV is not being measured anymore, I wonder how Smackdown performed. Seriously, CW shouldn’t have let that show go. I bet it would still pull 4 million viewers and they could be competitive in this low rated night.
Are the Univision soaps also down on Friday nights or they still on par with their nightly ratings?
I like Dollhouse, but when Stargate Universe is on at the same time it’s a no brainer. SGU all the way.
Medium strong…yes… but Dateline had same ratings ( not so exciting I guess…)
Omfg are u serious, all the good shows get the least viewers n the stupid shows get high ratings n more viewers, i h8 this!
FOX has only ever had one hit on Friday. They may let Dollhouse run its course, axe Brothers, burn off ‘Til Death’s remaining eps, and start with a fresh lineup during Idol season.
Ouch… this one hurts.
Really good episode last night though.
Despite lower rating on fridays, i think moving Betty to fridays was smart. i dont agree with the persons prediction above. i think Betty will get 7-8 millions viewers, and a possible 2.8-3.2 18-49ers. Betty is th perfect show to see, before you start your Friday night escapades.
well I flipped it off half way through and tuned into Medium, the episode last night was a breastfeeding too far, and dushku hsa totally flat affect
Reilly and FOX made the wrong call, shouldve kept TSCC
it is now evident that TSCC was actually giving Dollhouse lead in viewers..
Julia: I appear to be allergic to only tequila (so far). Thank goodness for rum
I’m calling Hiatusville after next week’s DH – no way it airs during November sweeps.
@John K: “blah blah blah”
*eyeroll*
yeah, fox should try to put dollhouse after House or 24. Just like CBS did with Gary unmarried, those episodes of GU got much higher viwers than on wednesday. So Fox should do that too.
Thats sad. Last nights Dollhouse was one of the best episodes.
a question, when does Sounthland start?? Did i miss it ?? Did NBC already canceled it??
The sun will come out, next week! Bet your bottom dollar that next week there’ll be sun! Just thinking about next week clears away the cobwebs and the sorrow til there’s none!
That’s my introductory way of saying that my doctor has put me on special medication, and as a result, I’m feeling really, really, really, REALLY happy about everything! These ratings included! So let me point out some positives!
(1) The show beat the rerun of America’s Next Top Model! Take that, rerun Tyra! Yay!
(2) The show held on to 92 percent of its lead-in! Awesome!
(3) If you take into consideration how CRAPPY and INFREQUENT the ads for Dollhouse have been on FOX this season, the numbers aren’t half-bad! How are people supposed to know DOllhouse is back if FOX doesn’t advertise it?!
(4) My medication tastes like chocolate! Yay!
I could go on . . . and talk about how I’m sure that DVDs and Hulu and everything else will help the show rise to the top of the ratings where it belongs! But my medication also makes me sleepy, so I need to go!
Dollhouse! Dollhouse! Dollhouse is the bomb! Yay!
oh, almost forgot it. Dollhouse epsidoe was very good, I have to agree with you mark, the best episode so far
Wow DH is pulling embarrassing numbers. It seems like everyone is down though. Smallville fans can’t be happy with the banishment to Fridays. I guess they want to kill it and needs a ratings reason to do so.
Well, come one, did anyone really suspect that this show would gain viewers? The renewal was an extreme error in judgment to begin with. Eliza D couldn’t act her way out of a paper bag.
and michael there were enough TSCC fans to get better ratings than Dollhouse werent there? And better DVD sales as well
If it really came down to TSCC or Dollhouse for FOX, they made a BIG mistake. I think the lowest TSCC ever got was 2.9 million viewers and a 1.0 or 1.1 rating, and that was during it’s slow block of episodes.
I just saw Paranormal Activity last night. It wasn’t as scary as these ratings! oye!
and every woman over 25 I talked too about the theme of last nights Dollhouse was horrified, they actually said, her body was stronger than her mind, Joss is losing the older women demo, you know the consumers?
/said that in the show I mean, lol
it was a glandular issue, her breastfeeidng made her so hormonal she went nuts dontchaknow, but Eliza was still flat except for her usual scooby doo face
lesters fan
oh lucky!!!!! i am dying to see it ! it is playong at our horror fest here in phoenix so I will get to see the fest screening but I hear the cut is different from the theatrical showing@
JBF!
You’re still the best thing about Dollhouse ratings reports.
JBF, just curious, what’s your SECOND favorite show?
sluthouse needs to go fox, bring my terminator back. Btw, I seriously expected the last two episodes not to suck, you would think if the producers/writers knew they only were booked for 7? episodes they would try harder. So far this season isn’t even as good as last years.
I bet JBF just watches Firefly DVDs over and over again. Gets through two complete viewings a week!
I don’t think it is fair to judge ratings on Friday cause it was bad for everything on tv. Fridays are bad in general heck maybe worse than last year.
Alex, it wouldn’t be fare to compare Dollhouse to…House. But it is fair to say that Dollhouse was the least-watched show of ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX and The CW other than a repeat of America’s Next Top Model.
Are we playing the ‘Guess how many hours it’s going to take for Dollhouse to be canceled and win Season 1 on DVD!’ game?
Julia, I wouldn’t blame JBF if he did watch Firefly over and over again – that was actually a good show. It’s a shame the same can’t be said for Dollhouse.
Fox should just can DH and get Joss to resurrect Firefly, even if it’s just as a summer series. And yes, I realize it’ll never happen but still, I can be delusional.
NEW Line Up for FOX
Fringe or Lie to ME??????
CBS needs to make Fridays bigger with moving Ghost WHisper and Medium to a better time they both deserve it.
Even though low numbers.
Put the two comedies on Wed on Fri
Law and Order does not deserve Fridays at 8pm at least 9pm but seriously put it on Weds or Mon. Get rid of southland and just put dateline on Friday.
OR Maybe Dateline on everyday for 3 hours????????
John K, maybe you’re not watching CSI. Of course, all crime dramas do that. That’s where the creativity of the writers comes out. For many years, they’ve been writing episodes in a way that we don’t get sick of what’s happening every week. Different stories, character development etc.
Among 18-49, all fell, except Dateline:
20/20: 2.3 to 1.6
GW: 2.2 to 1.7
Brothers: 1.0 to 0.8
Dollhouse: 1.0 to 0.8
Numbers: 1.8 to 1.6
Medium: 2.0 to 1.8
Smallville: 1.0 to 0.9
L&O: 1.3 to 1.2
Leno: 1.5 to 1.5
Dateline: up 1.5 to 1.7
JBF came back!!! We’ve missed you!
@jedimom: Echo thought her husband wants to kill her and the baby. Wouldn’t you react harshly to that? I wouldn’t call it going “crazy”, just pure maternal instinct resulting in a strong desire to protect the baby from it’s supposed killer. And it wasn’t a “glandular issue”, that was just Paul’s excuse to cover up the fact that Echo’s wipes aren’t fully working. But it seems many people didn’t pick up on that detail.
Oh Robert, there are so many great TV shows! There’s Firefly! And Buffy the Vampire Slayer! And Angel! It’s really hard to pick a fave out of those awesome shows! Plus there’s the episodes of Roseanne that Joss wrote! And the episode of Veronica Mars where Joss guest-starred! (He can write AND direct AND produce AND act AND anything else he puts his mind to! Isn’t that awesome?!) So sure I watched nothing but Dollhouse all summer, but now I can watch, like, 300 episodes of TV before cycling back to watch ‘em all over again! Who needs anything non-Jossy when you have this much Joss to devour over and over again?!
Law and Order held up decently well. I guess that “liberal agenda” it has isn’t hurting it too much.
Wow, Ghost Whisperer is slow this year…
For those wondering, Southland returns in 3 weeks on 10/23.
LOL, at the continued fight between TSCC and DH fans over which show should have been picked up. BOTH shows should have been canceled.
FOX just picked up some UK-imported game show called The Cube. I suspect that it will be placed on Fridays with some other game show.
Brothers will move permanently to Sundays, where it seems to fit. Til Death will do a double killing at 8pm.
ABC might try to place original eps of the forgotten on Fridays to see if the show can be salvaged on that night.
I agree that Brothers will be moved to Sundays @ 7.30 and that Til Death will air 2 episodes on Friday nights…
Also, Dollhouse will probably get the axe in the next two weeks, and I believe FOX will air repeats of either Glee or Fringe…
“brothers” perform better on sundays. weird?
and “dollhouse” is on the verge of getting cancelled, bye dollhouse
let’s see how ugly betty and southland affect the friday ratings game (snork, hahahaha)
and cbs is unstoppable
Andrea, I pretty much agree with you about FOX (and TSCC and DH fans!). Not sure about The Forgotten on Fridays. If that happens, I’d see it as more of a burnoff move than a salvage attempt. I don’t see ABC bouncing Ugly Betty or Supernanny to do that, but who knows. And waiting to see how The Forgotten encore did could be among the reasons ABC kept next Friday “TBA”.
Fox just needs to move Dollhouse over to FX and air it on a better night of the week and it will draw a larger audience and can be done for less money. These genre shows just cannot get enough folks to watch to stay on broadcast channels anymore. Before long Fringe will be in danger of being cancelled and yet on FX its numbers would be great. The folks that watch these kinds of shows will go to the channel it is on to watch it, and a wise business decision would be to put them there to begin with. The scale paid to produce them is much lower when done for cable so costs could line up from the start. Several recent failures like Merlin, The Listener, Defying Gravity and other shows would have been considered successful if on cable instead of on broadcast networks. BSG only got about 2.5 million or so and is bragged as very successful by Syfy. I just cannot understand why genre shows are put on a broadcaster to begin with. Something else, writers, directors and actors will just have to come to the understanding they cannot be paid as much for being on shows that draw lower ratings, it is just a fact of life everything cannot be shown on CBS, ABC, NBC or Fox or even CW some belong on Syfy, FX and ABC Family to begin with. Maybe Fox should show some reruns over on MyNetwork TV after their wrestling show on Fridays.
Looks like ‘Smallville’ maintained, especially since the NY market wasn’t factored into these numbers. I’m interested to see what kind of numbers the show gets on the Saturday airing tonight for NY. I wouldn’t be surprised, in the long-run, if this episode would’ve bested the premiere’s numbers if everyone had been able to watch it on the same night.
Tucker, the NY market was factored in. It will be removed in the finals, so expect the numbers to drop.
it’s so annoying how dollhouse dips when the show is keeps getting better and better
“Andrea, I pretty much agree with you about FOX (and TSCC and DH fans!). Not sure about The Forgotten on Fridays. If that happens, I’d see it as more of a burnoff move than a salvage attempt.”
I would agree if this weren’t a Jerry Bruckheimer show. He has a new project with ABC, so there might be some business dealing here.
Seems to me that TV viewership on Friday Nights is down about 25% GhostWhisperer’s rating were last season near 9 to 10 mil per episode and now barely 7.5 mil Fox may just burn off the remainder of the episodes and have Fridays as repeats of hit series.
Suck it NBC. I love that Medium’s doing good!
I’m so proud of Medium
even if it was only a 1.8…at least it built on ghost whisperer’s numbers
Allen Charles, I think FX is becoming more like Syfy in its commitment to producing its own shows and not picking up network castoffs.
FX just picked up 6/6 new pilots! I don’t think they will have room for a struggling TV show that doesn’t have audience or critical appeal.
It has been confirmed, however, that cable does have a higher % of shows making it to a second season (See futoncritic.com), especially the premium outlets like HBO.
Unlike the networks, HBO, FX and USA have been picking up some interesting pilots for next year, and I’m eagerly awaiting the shows!
Stargate Universe: 2.3 million viewers. Release should be available soon (hopefully!)
Interesting topic, Friday really is turning into the graveyard shift so my question to Robert, Bill and anyone else is could this mean a mass cull of all Friday shows next summer simply because people just don’t watch tv on Fridays?
As I say almost every Friday, I’m pleased that Numb3rs’ numbers held (only 0.19m viewers down from the sixth season premiere last week). And seeing as Numb3rs, Medium and Ghost Whisperer are all pulling around 7.5-8.0 million viewers, is it safe to assume that all three would get renewed for next year because despite falling ratings across the networks, CBS are still the champions of Friday nights?
And finally, I have a question for Joss’ Biggest Fan: what do you think of Bones (with David Boreanaz from Buffy/Angel) and Castle (with Nathan Fillion from Firefly)?
Well on Long Island, Smallville isn’t going to be on until tonight. So if it did bad it’s because it wasn’t on in some states. Baseball or something was on.
Dave, Dave, Dave. JBF is a Joss fan. Not an “actors would were on Joss shows” fan.
As for Friday, the conventional wisdom has always seemed to be that if the networks program it, the viewers will come. This year they are programming it, and the viewers are fleeing in droves. I would guess that even CBS is going to give up on Friday after this season.
What kind of numbers was Medium getting last year?
I watched SG-U and recorded Dollhouse. SG-U was not good, and Dollhouse was worse.
The budget cuts have killed dollhouse’s quality this season, it just seems a little to fake
SG-U is Lost in Space meats Grey’s and oh yeah they have a startgate on the ship
Dave, I’m not sure Friday will go the way of Saturday on broadcast, though it does seem to be trending in that direction. The season is too young to predict though.
I became a Numb3rs fan by catching up on a lot of seasons over the summer, but the one thing I don’t have any insight into is the cost for the show. Especially now its in its sixth season.
I think Bill and I are probably both rooting for JBF to pick up the Castle torch…
Actually CSI and a number of those procedurals on CBS do run a story thread throughout the season. The thread does, however, pop up within the formulaic shows and continues in some stand alone shows, for example on CSI the mystery of the miniature killer. Last week they brought back a story that we thought had played out in previous years.
not going to lie I am scared for Smallville, The CW is killing it on Fridays
Does anyone have an idea how much the Mets game will affect Smallville? I know the numbers will be dropped, but when will we know how much? Is it possible the numbers will fall below 2 million?
How much better did Firefly do? Anybody have still have its numbers?
nobody is watching the Mets at this point in the season. They are 24 games out of 1st place with 3 games to play
Robert said: “nobody marveling at the triumphant return of ‘TIL DEATH!? 100% retention out of BROTHERS in 18-49, and 95% in viewers!”
LOLZ!! Clearly the high lite of the evening!
Dollhouse was horrible.
Poor Smallville — I didn’t watch last night – still haven’t seen the 1st episode — those numbers are but a shadow of its former self. (and still beating Fox — Dawn’s gonna LOVE that) I hate that the CW has improved their Friday at the expense of their under appreciated work horse.
I agree with Andrea …TSCC and DH should have been both canceled last year .
I do not think the choice was really between TSCC and DH anyhow , TSCC was RIP already before any choice about DH
And about MEDIUM doing good … Are you kiddin’ me ? In this sea of medicocrity the “best” still remain mediocre
“As for Friday, the conventional wisdom has always seemed to be that if the networks program it, the viewers will come. ”
Whose conventional wisdom? I always thought of Fridays as the Death Slot, for at least 5 or 6 years :p
“not going to lie I am scared for Smallville, The CW is killing it on Fridays”
Beating a Fox sci/fi show (even a different time slot) is something to spin in their favor.
I can see why Smallville fans are worried, Dawn wants to replace it with Vampires of Melrose Hills.
Anyone who says Dollhouse will get renewed or a back 9 reminds me of Homer Simpson.
“It’s just a little airborn, it’s still good, it’s still good!”
What happened to Ghost Whisperer? I never watched the show, but I thought I heard somewhere that it was the most watched broadcast show on Friday nights… 1.7 seems kinda low…
Andrea says
My point is GENRE shows need to start out on cable and be allowed to grow an audience because there are not enough potential viewers for a Dollhouse or even a Fringe to allow them to stay on broadcasters. FX or Syfy should have been the channel Dollhouse was shown on from the beginning, before it became a failed show. None of these genre show will likely EVER make it on the broadcasters and the sooner the industry accepts this the better viewers of off beat genre shows will be. Stargate Universe probably would not draw a larger audience on NBC or ABC than it does on Syfy. That is my point.
Andrea, people have been saying that it’s a death slot because the networks made it a death slot. CBS has success on Fridays because they actually program the night, rather than throwing their failing shows and repeats there.
One established reason for Dollhouse’s return was a much tighter budget. Do we have any number’s regarding it’s cost/ratings ratio vs shows that are considered sucesses?
“Andrea, people have been saying that it’s a death slot because the networks made it a death slot. CBS has success on Fridays because they actually program the night, rather than throwing their failing shows and repeats there.”
They have some success, but look at those numbers, they wouldn’t be considered that great on any other night.
Seriously though, when you’ve got Dollhouse getting the crap kicked out of it by a rerun of The Forgotten, a show that itself is looking likely for the cancellation heap…I don’t care how low the cost is, that CAN’T be good.
Kitchen Nightmares and Moment of Truth are both cheaper and would pull numbers at least even with Dollhouse, probably higher. And then House reruns are a very obvious choice too.
That wasn’t a strong episode and the numbers are expected.
But I don’t get the “cancel it already!” comments… did Whedon run over your dog with a lawnmower? Is there some awesome show out there just waiting for a vacant Friday night slot on FOX to make history? No wonder there are so many comments, the hostility is baffling.
Oh, Dollhouse, losing against Smallville; I thought that Dushku did very, very well in the 2nd half of the episode (The first half was on the boring side.). Weird that Medium and Whisperer didn’t get to 2; it does bode well for Numbers that the other shows on its night did only slightly better.
Jay Leno’s #’s seem to make him the biggest winner of the night.
Budo – combination of some people being coldly clinical, and others who just hate the show for a variety of reasons, from the nonsense that it was somehow picked over T:SCC (it wasn’t) to people who either do not get, or get but still find unacceptable, the concept.
Yesterday’s episode was awful though, it highlighted the fact the show really shouldn’t revolve around Echo, and I suspect that next Friday’s numbers are going to be even lower.
I wish Fox would give Joss a little more respect and put the show on a night where people actually WATCH TV. That is how Firefly got canceled.
I can’t get over the fact that there are people here that think that Dollhouse won’t be canceled. I wish I lived in a land of possibilities like they do….lol
Budo, I want the show to get canceled because I am a huge Joss fan, and every episode that is of “Lactating Echo” quality makes me question his talent more and more. I want him to work on something different and better.
Don’t fall for the trolls that say crap like “I’m a TSCC fan and don’t watch dollhouse because fox canceled us” And even if tscc fans really do feel like that, they don’t speak for us all. Dollhouse is a great show!
Why would Fox cancel Dollhouse? They already paid for the 13 episodes, and they don’t have anything else to air in that slot… So just suck it up, stop advertising it, let it run its course and don’t bring it back. That “Brothers” comedy, btw, is doing just as badly.
When I saw Dollhouse ratings… I think I had a virtual orgasm.
And yeah, we are The RESISTANCE!
I don’t care about Dollhouse anymore, but Smallville ratings made my sad. How could CW hope for good ratings on Friday nights?
‘Til Death was actually good last night. Since FOX is basically getting them for free, I’m guessing they will run all the episodes until football ends, then dump the rest on Sundays at 7pm.
QUOTE: Why would Fox cancel Dollhouse? They already paid for the 13 episodes, and they don’t have anything else to air in that slot… So just suck it up, stop advertising it, let it run its course and don’t bring it back. That “Brothers” comedy, btw, is doing just as badly.
- Why wouldn’t FOX cancel it? It doesnt matter that they paid for them already. Networks cancel shows all the time. Brothers is cheaper, as its only a 30 minute comedy, thus Dollhouse is a bigger loser.
QUOTE: Why would Fox cancel Dollhouse? They already paid for the 13 episodes, and they don’t have anything else to air in that slot… So just suck it up, stop advertising it, let it run its course and don’t bring it back. That “Brothers” comedy, btw, is doing just as badly.
Why air something that gets a .8 demo, when a repeat of House could easily get over 1.0 demo thus making FOX more money in the long run. FOX has already paid for 13 episodes, but that doesn’t mean they have to air all of those.
squiggleslash says:
“Budo – combination of some people being coldly clinical, and others who just hate the show for a variety of reasons, from the nonsense that it was somehow picked over T:SCC (it wasn’t) to people who either do not get, or get but still find unacceptable, the concept.”
You seem to have overlooked people who think the concept is about as deep as that of the Lone Ranger and his horse, Silver, and not as well executed.
“Cancel this show already!”
Why? Do you get some fun with that?
WHAT???? These Smallville and Dollhouse numbers can’t be real!
Both episodes were so so so good.
The fight between Metallo and bear Clark was epic and in Dollhouse Faith was so sexy and sneaky and smart.
squiggleslash , you are right about episode 2 .I believe Joss is making the same mistake of the first 5 rpisodes of last season ( the episodes that killed definitively this show ) .
The real pity is that these 2 episodes did not gave to the audience what ,in some way, “epitaph one” promised …
This is sad becuase the potential was huge ( much higher then any TSCC crap LOL
)
Mumbo, I meant prior to this season. As I said before, this season may disprove the idea of networks failing to program as a reason for Friday ratings.
Robert Seidman:
If SGU really only did 2.3 million viewers, I don’t expect Syfy to send out a press release. 2.3 million viewers is a pretty weak start.
Rosario, Oh, ye of little faith (in network PR).
Robert, about the cost of Numb3rs… while I think it is quite cheap to make, apart from the CGI on the “Charlievision” segments, having made it to six seasons in these troubled economic times, the only thing I read over the summer on Michael Aussielo’s website (and imho his site is usually reliable) was that Peter MacNicol (Larry) wouldn’t be in every episode because of “budget constraints”.
As you’ve now caught up with Numb3rs (and I bet that was a mammoth task with over 100 episodes to watch), you’ll have seen that with the exception of the Eppes family, the supporting cast (David, Colby, Liz, Nikki and previously Megan) do “rotate” so that they could be in one week but missing the next. So Larry missing from an episode here and there isn’t a big thing because it happens quite often on Numb3rs.
However, in last week’s season premiere, they’re setting up a storyline for Larry to go to CERN for six months, effectively missing most of this sixth season like what happened when he went to the ISS in season 3. At that time, Peter MacNicol landed a big role on 24, so I’m not sure if that’s why he’ll be out for most of season 6.
That aside, Numb3rs does have a quite large supporting cast, a very loyal fanbase (although not as devoted as Castle’s) and has been either the 1st or 2nd most watched show on Fridays for as long as I’ve been taking an interest in the US television ratings from the other side of the pond. So if Fridays are going to still be programmed next year, I could see CBS downsizing the cast. Although I’d much rather lose Nikki than Larry because I’ve been a fan of Peter MacNicol’s since his Ally McBeal days.
Anyway, my love for Numb3rs aside, I’d agree with you and Bill: JBF picking up the Castle torch would do no harm to the campaign to either get Castle a back 9 until May sweeps, and/or a third season renewal. I’d certainly back JBF because I think Castle is a great little show and I must admit disappointment that it’s not doing too well in the ratings this year after the way season 1 picked up at the end. Then again, if Castle does finish, and they do reveal the mother in How I Met Your Mother, I’d place a big wager that freeing up Nathan Fillion and Neil Patrick Harris could mean Dr Horrible in prime time for 2010-11. The only problem then is could Simon Helberg do that and still be Howard in The Big Bang Theory given that TBBT got a two year renewal last year?
Sorry for the long post.
Hah. I honestly expected them to hold out till Monday or Tuesday even. I guess they want to get ahead of the story.
2.35M viewers is a horrible, horrible start. I don’t care how they spin it.
Dollhouse CANADIAN ratings:
Last week: 573,000
This week: 398,000
Seriously, has any ion program ever done better than a 0.8 in the demo?
Speaking of ion, FOX could try something else on Fridays:
8:00 Reba (20th Century Fox made the show, and she’s much nicer (not nicer looking, but nicer) than anyone currently on FOX Fridays…
8:30 Blue Collar TV – didn’t they do this before, and it was at least funnier than Brad Garrett ever was?
9:00 World’s Most Wanted – There’s got to be an Aussie John Walsh out there, concentrating on international crimes. Plus, the potential crossovers with AMW could be very interesting…
…and that would give time for FOX to develop a new, international Cops, which they could air on Fridays at 8:00
Fellow TV mavens:
I have to confess that I am becoming deeply disaffected by what passes for network TV entertainment in 2009. Each year there are fewer and fewer programs that hold my attention.
I gave up on CSI when Petersen left, and now I’m down to House, M.D., Castle, Bones and Smallville. And, all of those, save for Castle, are in various stages of wearing out their welcome. I am looking forward to the return of Better Off Ted, but the long-term future for it and Castle isn’t that bright.
None of the new, fall shows I sampled ignited my interest at all, and some – like, say, Trauma, were hugely disappointing. I’m going to check out Human Target when it arrives, and the cable show, White Collar, but this may be the beginning of the end of prime time television as a significant part of my life.
At this rate, my viewing will soon be all-DVD-all-the-time.
Too bad. So sad.
wow!!!!!top model encore was only 500.000 viewers back from dollhouse and only 0.3 lower!!!
To all of you who said and seconded “I’m a TSCC fan and I do not watch Dollhouse S2 as a matter of principle” – really guys? *Really?* Dick move. I liked both shows and would not have avoided T:SCC if Dollhouse had been the one canceled. Way to be immature.
Dollhouse is the best thing on television right now, imho. People had better start watching and FOX had better keep it. Last season there were all kinds of “Save Dollhouse!” movements out and about. I haven’t seen one do something since May or so. Aren’t we about due to start another? Because I not only want this 13 episode run to actually finish airing but I want a third season. I don’t want another Firefly scenario – it’s so frustrating when you really get into something and then it’s cut ridiculously short.
I am glad Medium won the night. Sure, ratings were down a bit, but CBS will keep all 3 shows for next season as they win the night….
It was smart to save Medium as it is doing well and beating most NBC shows!
there’s no need to worry about smallville’s numbers…CW should be very happy with those numbers because not even on mondays can have them. smallville is safe for the rest of the season.
i know where you stand i have tones of new shows already on my DVR and havent seen any of them dont want to get involed with anything new intill i see it picked up for a full season……. so far i am whacing NCIS LA and Goodwife Moden Family Cougar Town and FLashfoward and ratings have been great so far
I think Friday night is a good night for an aging show like the original Law & Order. Nobody expects it will get great ratings on a Friday and it’s doing fairly well opposite “Ghost Whisperer.” “Dateline” will be up and down based on what the big story is. Leno is doing about what he would be expected to do and still getting at lest a 1.5 demo and not performing much worse that 20/20 in total numbers or the 18-49 demo.
Smalville beat FOX. CW should be happy about that. I knew that Brothers would be higher than Til Death or Dollhouse though. All 3 are at series lows.
CBS series won but all 3 are down. The total numbers rose ever so slightly so all 3 are basically at the same level. Maybe some kind of crossover event???
7.63
7.72
7.73
i know that does seem werid on cbs the same people who whaced Meduim saw numbers
Well CBS has stated that if Ghost Whisperer and Numb3rs had a child it would be Medium.
@Julia,
Gluten. Also allergic to beer and vodka. It sucks.
My mom has the same problem. You can drink 100% Potato Vodka and Sorghum beer. The Vodka tends to be a little more expensive, but very good (the two brands I remember off-hand are Chopin and Lukasowa). The beer is similar to some of the darker, thinker beers.
In a perfect world, “Dullhouse” would be joining “What About Joan,” “Salvage 1″ and “Boomtown” right about now.
Enough about the FOX crud. I’m more impressed with NBC’s Friday gains. Not that they’ll ever go back to the glory days of the “Providence”/”Dateline”/”Law & Order: SVU” lineup, but they’re finally competitive again — and it looks like they have the original “L&O” to thank for that. It’s fused some new blood into the night (maybe not in 18-49…). More importantly, it looks to have deflated “Breast Whisperer.” Ah, well, you know how it is. Those big ones always sag when they get older.
What are your guy’s predictions for next week’s Dollhouse ratings ??
When I watched “Instinct” last night at fox.com at 12:45 PST, it was being noted as the most popular downloaded episode on the site, with House (?) second, I think.
Can we get an idea of the fox.com and hulu numbers? It makes sense Dollhouse would have at least a slightly larger audience this fall than during season 1 becausee of all of our evangelizing, and I wonder if those missing people are busy Friday nights and watching later streaming online.
Finally, this show is supposed to make you go “eww.” What does it say about our society that breastfeeding a baby sends viewers running. Joss is pushing boundaries and always has been with this show (see my review at thelandofunlikeness blog). It is all about making us uncomfortable. The spoof on the killer madwoman in a lightning storm was great. “This isn’t me,” Echo realizes.
If you take the Briggs-Meyers personality test about 1-2% of the population fall in certain categories, like the artistic-militant one. This show feeds that slice of humanity (all the categories have their important social functions and several of the categories contains 20% or 30% of the population). Buffy and Firefly could pull in additional people because of the snark and humor, and the wide cast of lovable characters. This show is doing something much more dangerous and wonderful. I compare it to Shakespeare’s Measure For Measure, his “problem” play or “dark comedy” that dealt with sexual exploitation and hypocrisy, for example. Joss has made it cheap; it deserves some niche at Fox or CW….
Wow I can’t believe people even compare TSCC with the garbage that is Dullhouse. Dullhouse fans pulled the biggest dick moves during the save our show campaigns and actually wrote letters to FOX to cancel TSCC in favor of Dullhouse; they argued that Dullhouse would be doing “way better” if they had a better lead-in. Then they crashed and burned after TSCC ended it’s run.
Dullhouse needs to go away and its fans need to stick to fan fiction where they can explore their prostitute fantasies without the rest of us having to deal with it.
I predict 0.7 for next week and cancellation.
Smallville was preempted in the NY market for the Mets game. Does anybody know what WPIX ratings were from 8pm-9pm?
Dollhouse is the worst thing Joss has ever produced. It has no humor and the acting is horrid. The only good thing about watching this show is that it’s so bad it inspires me to get up and do laundry instead of staying in front of the tv…
Speaking of Ugly Betty, I’m watching the season premiere as we speak and I have to say that I haven’t enjoyed the show this much since season 1 and I’m only 16 minutes in. I hope it succeeds on Fridays.
Wess …if you really think that DH was saved by some letters to FOX and this led to the cancellation of TSCC , this means that we human race are so dumb asses to deserve to be taken over by the Skynet ! LOL
Wess, if you honestly believe Dollhouse fans have so much power, then all the talk here is completely senseless. You see, no matter what the ratings, the all-powerful Dollhouse fans will simply write a few letters and that’s it, there will be a third season.
Or, we come back to reality.
Hey, Errol – where exactly are you watching the new Betty?
And did Connor have to kill someone to get you in
Theo,
I receive screeners from the networks, so I’m reviewing the show for my site right now. The show is really good. Connor isn’t the secret person, btw.
Yea, I missed the pro-Dollhouse – Kill TSSC letter writing meeting. I must not be high enough in the Jossian Order. I only have the red robes. I did get to sacrifice a goat last week though!
We are however planning to write Fox to save Dollhouse by canceling House next week. Because that makes perfect sense.
Ouch for CBS- why are they killing Smallville? Move it to Wednesday’s at 8pm and shift the models to 9 pm.
TSCC btw… I’m a typo fiend today.
Smallville didn’t come on….
Sherm – Smallville has already established itself over 8 seasons. Now CW is using the series to bring viewers back to fridays. while using the rest of the week to launch new series.
As for Dollhouse, I dont think FOX will pull it soon. The series will likely air at least until its November 13th airing. After Friday the 13th Dollhouse may either be pulled or just burned off. FOX may as well burn the series off. They knew the series would do badly and what did they expect to do when the series did.
NBC is holding up OK, but lets see how things go when Southland begins airing after Law & Order and when ABC stops airing repeats and starts with Supernanny and Ugly Betty. I’ll bet NBC’s dramas will beat ABC’s Nanny/Betty combo.
I can’t believe some people keep bringing up FireFLOP . That show stunk, held records for low of the lows. I think it all comes from Summer Glau’s obsessed fans ? Dollhouse will get better comments here, as soon as their metal goddess blesses this show with her latest crazy, broken character. I do admire the spirit of non Americans perceived expertise of American television. Maybe Nielsen should give Europe some boxes. I have a sinking feeling it would be more statistically accurate than whats being reported now.
For what it’s worth I don’t think the CW is killing Smallville. It only has one more season left (and I bet CW will give them a 10th). The CW needs to concentrate on younger shows. Right now Vampire Diaries is a hit so the decision to move Smallville from Thursday was a good one. At this point all Smallville has to do is perform better in the Friday slot than any other program in the current line up would do.
Smallville is pulling in ratings on par with the other shows except for Vampire Diaries and is doing well on itunes. We haven’t seen the DVR numbers yet either.
This week Smallville was preempted for a Mets game, so it’s an outlier, we’ll have to see how it does next week onward. I’m betting it’s doing just fine by CW standards.
BTW, Glau is playing another Dollhouse’s Topher on the show. She’s not yet another River/Cameron.
wait if smallville beat brothers why is the cw behind fox the cw should be in front of it…
Lucky you, Errol – my wife is going to have conniption fits when I have to tell her that she has to wait 13 more days…
It had better be good, and the Mouse had better promote it much better than FOX promotes DH (whoever said that TVBTN promotes DH better than FOX should get some of the cash that Whedon needs to send to Robert and Bill for their promotional assistance)
One quick question, Errol – will the Betty premiere be 2.5 demo good? 3.0+ demo great? 1.5 demo ehh? Or Dollhouse great – 0.8 (as DH is going to go 0.6 in a few weeks)?
Justin, the repeat of the CW’s Top Model brought down the total average of the night to a 0.7.
JenSmith – Agreed. Smallville may be down from Thursdays but its numbers are up considerably from Everybody Hates Chris and The Game. And Smallville is beating FOX’s Brothers/Til Death combo so they should be happy in that respect.
@John K.
Just because people love to watch episodic TV that doesn’t mean America is lazy. Maybe why people don’t watch that much serialize shows is because they just don’t have the time for them? I know I don’t. I hate that with serialize shows I have to watch every week. I just cannot make that commitment, I have a busy life and very limited hours during the week that I can spend watching TV. So for me shows like Criminal Minds and CSI:NY are what I watch. Will catch here and there an episode of The Big Bang Theory and the Amazing Race. Last serialize show I did watch watched was Lost and that was on DVD up to season three, lost interest afterwards.
Smallville is showing now on WPIX- New York’s CW.
Shem: I don’t think the Smallville showing counts in the final rating released on Monday. But does it count in the DVR ratings?
I never said Dullhouse fans actually had an effect on FOX’s decision with their anti-TSCC “we want a descent lead-in campaign”, i just said that it says a lot about the dickiness of Dullhouse fans. This is why the TSCC resistance has no sympathy for Dullhouse and its lowbrow fans.
Rviewer
You’re right. But I think that’s the frustration of many fans of long-form drama. Yes, there are exceptions (like Lost) that from time to to time seem to fly in the face of the episodic format, but a vast majority of these types of shows have difficulty surviving regardless of quality.
It’s not so much a dislike of the episodic format, rather the dominance of the format to the exclusion of serialization. But since American’s interests tend to fluctuate over time, I don’t think it’s worth getting upset about. I especially don’t get John’s anger over the 30 minute comedy format which has been effectively dead for nearly half a decade at least (a few shows simply being exceptions).
I don’t think the point of my satire was that Dollhouse fans had an effect Wess. I think the point was how ridiculous the idea that we sat around writing letters badmouthing TSCC so it would get canceled instead. In fact, I’m pretty sure that was my point because I wrote it.
Why are mentally disturbed Cameron chronicle fans still blubbering about Dollhouse fan comments that they claim happened , what a year ago ? That DH fans complained about TSCC as a lead in, IT NEVER HAPPENED. ITs absurd things like this that keep these fools motivated to haunt a show thats still on the air. I can’t wait to Eliza mops the floor with Summer’s character.
Why do I know that notty is the greatest closet Cameron fan?
You really cannot convince anyone otherwise, the rampant trolling makes is so obvious. Notty, you amuse me. You make TSCC fanatics seem tame.
I gave Dollhouse a chance, but I personally don’t like it that much. It was never a big hit from start to finish. The pilot wasn’t all that great and season one was inconsistent. I decided to DVR SGU over Dollhouse and will do so again next week.
The fact that Dollhouse lost to SGU and that both shows appeal to basically the same audience shows just how terrible of a job FOX has done with the show.
It’s got to be rare for one of the big four to lose in the ratings to a show on a channel like syfy which is making strides with their product, but still far off.
I wouldn’t be shocked to see House reruns before the end of the year on Friday.
notty22 is a very bored human being who is also quite likely sexually frustrated and mentally disturbed. He makes it a point of bashing Summer Glau and everything she does, and he takes out his many frustrations on TSCC fans who are not even necessarily Summer Glau fans but are just fans of the show itself. I would feel sorry for him if he wasn’t so annoying.
I saw my second cyborg die from TSCC last night. Metallo(Derek) on Smallville and Cameron on TSCC. Combined both shows only had 6 million viewers. Thats pretty sad. Though Cameron’s death was very satisfying.
Who thinks BAG will be back on Smallvilled, I don’t.
what?!?
no emily24 stating how “Glee” is doomed/has the worst ratings/the worst freshmen show in the history of television/going the way of “Dollhouse”/”Modern Family” rocks!, etc. in this thread?!?
i’m amazed (and a little disappointed-we look forward to her uneducated and misguided rants)!!!!
she must be busy shaving little kittens and boiling rabbits…..
notty, i think he will considering he said in a interview he would love to return and the producers kept metallo alive in the series so they will probably bring him back one day either this season or the next. Also Kelly Souders said that she is planning on getting mettallo back into the show she just has to find room for him. So I think they will!
You also have to put that channel 11 in New York did not air smallville because of the met game it was aired saturday instead so you have to figure the people that get that channel in the tri state area
Jackson says:
“It confuses me to why people would rather would watch a repeat than a brand new episode of another show.”
Most of the things I watch is because of how they make me feel, especially since 99.99% of everything is uninspired, repetitive, predicatable clicheish repeats of things seen a million times before (the older you get the worse it gets since they just keep repeating themselves) – so i am one of those who might very well watch a repeat of something that felt good, that look a new episode of something which doesn’t.
One current exception to this, and I don’t know why (perhaps he is a magician) is Dollhouse, which i find not very inventive, mostly badly acted and not groundbreaking at all – yet i still watch it… perhaps I’m hoping someone will shoot Echo *g*
What Fox needs to do is cancel Dollhouse, run repeats of season 2 of SCC and have a 13 episode pick up for season 3 and give us a ending we TSCC fans need. DOLLHOUSE sucks without TSCC
Notty22, we all know you hate Summer Glau, stop trolling.
Medium got 7 something million viewers and got only a 1.7 demo? How come you’re not talking about it’s demise? I looked up some ancient history, and back in 2005, when Threshold was in that timeslot, on 9/23/05 it got a demo of 2.5. It lasted like 8 eps and then was history. What’s even more amazing is that they swapped Threshold with Closer To Home, and Closer To Home actually improved in the slot. I found a rating for that show for its season finale in 2006, and it got a 2.6. Then they canned that one, too, at the end of 2007. The much maligned Moonlight got a 2.5 in one of its November outings in 2007. Of course, last year the Ex-List lasted four eps, I think, and then got canned. I looked up its numbers, and for at least 2 of its episodes it got a 2.0.
It will be interesting to see what CBS does with Mediumm, since they apparently had some method to their madness to bring over a show that was cancelled by NBC, of all places.
Concerning Dollhousem, I feel bad for Elisha Dushku. As for Josh Whedon, if he can’t produce another success at some point, I don’t see how he can keep on getting things produced. A reputation in Hollywood is a good thing, but even there it only carries you so far.
This is for the Glau fanboys and their Summer Temples. LOL
Speaking of reputations ! Summer Glau is cursed, the one ep she’s featured in Firefly is its last. She comes on the 4400 , that show gets canceled. Now Mrs. Grim Reaper is coming to Dollhouse for her cancellation Trifecta !
Dollhouse is amazing. I hope the Hulu and FOX.com numbers help pull it through. I hope FOX starts advertising it properly so that people watch the frakking show!
Aaaand again with the immature TSCC fans. We never bashed your show. I was pulling for *both* to be renewed – I used to love my three hour Friday sci-fi nights of Terminator followed by Dollhouse followed by Battlestar Galactica. They were excellent. If Dollhouse got canceled instead of TSCC, I wouldn’t be trolling sites about TV ratings saying TSCC should be canceled. What in the hell are your problems?
Dollhouse is very cerebral (no pun intended) writing. It’s gorgeous and thought-provoking. The other night, after I finished re-watching season one with my roommate, we wound up having a four hour discussion about philosophy… inspired by the show. No exaggeration. If you don’t like it, perhaps you’re just to dense to get it. If this show gets canceled it will prove once and for all that entertainment is produced for the lowest common denominator. =/
Dollhouse did better with Terminator as a lead in.
notty22 has a secret crush on Summer Glau.
Note to Fox: Michael Strahan isn’t funny.
lainey – Were not talking about Medium’s demise because Threshold got 7 million viewers when Ghost Whisperers and Numbers pulled around 10-11. Its the fact that Threshold brought the other two down was why it got axed. Close to Home wasnt axed because of the ratings, its because the series was the weak point of the night. So CBS tried something new like they did with Moonlight. Moonlight went down over time so it was axed. Then they tried The Ex List which brought Whisperer and Numb3rs down until NCIS repeats took over. Flashpoint did pretty good though. Medium was picked up for syndication purposes, because it outperformed most NBC series, and because its a really good fit with Ghost Whisperer and Numb3rs. Now all 3 series are getting all most exactly the same numbers so CBS cant blame it on the 9pm show this time. I think all 3 will stick around in their slots through 2010-11.
Cody – TSCC repeats as well as originals would fare worse than Dollhouse.
Abe – Though your right, its not about the lead in, its about people being tired and uninterested in Dollhouse.
smallville is best!!!
WOW poor poor dollhouse, I still am mindblown that it has such little ratings, while all the other crap keeps piling up. Stupid stupid tiny brained humans.
I hope Friday viewership will go up next week.
SMALLVILLE!! wooho.
They should move up vampire diaries to fridays, or the re-runs, that way smallville has a chance of survival
Julia says:
“Have you ever had potato vodka? It’s even worse than wheat vodka. But I don’t miss vodka much anyway. I miss beer and scotch and bourbon. But I console myself with rum and hard cider.”
Purely coincidentally, when I woke up the manager of Chicago’s Bar DeVille was on the radio giving a strong recommendation to the Santa Teresa 1796 as a sipping rum for the cooler months.
CBS produces and owns Medium- always has- so it is cheap for them to run it. It is holding their viewers for the night and I am confident it will get to run its full season. Will it return? We will have to wait and see.
The CW is very happy with Smallville- the last time they saw numbers over 2 million on Fridays was when they had wrestling still on. Warner underwrites it pretty much completely these days so the CW gets it cheap and the studio makes $ . No worries about Smallville.
Great job to SyFy with SGU! Great profits for NBC/Universal and MGM for the new show which gets to keep all of their ad revenue ( no pesky affiliates to share that with)and their premium from the cable companies too as well as ads and downloads from online viewings. I suspect that within two years Bonnie Hamer will be named the new head of NBC and asked to do for the net what she has done for their cable brands.
Dollhouse? Don’t expect it to return from hiatus unless it is to run during an off peak time to run out the filmed episodes- maybe.
“Reilly and FOX made the wrong call, shouldve kept TSCC
it is now evident that TSCC was actually giving Dollhouse lead in viewers..”
And yet beat it in the ratings, every week bar two they were paired together.
That is genius thinking.
Never mind:-
1. TSCC was more expensive to make.
2. Had had two chances to build a following, and bled viewers.
3. FOX gets no money off TSCC DVD sales, it gets money off DH sales.
I’m surprised that either show made it back, but TSCC rightly never had a chance.
Oh and Glau sucks.
“What Fox needs to do is cancel Dollhouse, run repeats of season 2 of SCC and have a 13 episode pick up for season 3 and give us a ending we TSCC fans need. DOLLHOUSE sucks without TSCC”
While season 2 of TSCC just sucked with or without DH.
That movie franchise backing it up, and it still couldn’t become a success. How pitiful
DH is dead.
However, TSCC is the corpse in the cementary that really smells.
“WOW poor poor dollhouse, I still am mindblown that it has such little ratings, while all the other crap keeps piling up. Stupid stupid tiny brained humans.”
Actually it’s more about the rather silly concept with a whole load of plot holes in it for me. If not for the Ballard-apart fine cast I wouldn’t be watching.
Still better than the Glau-afflicted bore that was S2 of TSCC.
“Speaking of reputations ! Summer Glau is cursed, the one ep she’s featured in Firefly is its last. She comes on the 4400 , that show gets canceled. Now Mrs. Grim Reaper is coming to Dollhouse for her cancellation Trifecta !”
And now she’s going to be on Dollhouse (that’ll be an ep I skip), so that’s four shows her hideous performances have killed off.
Alright, technically DH was dead before she got there and Firefly was just plain bad.
I still miss The 4400 though. Whedon, that’s INTELLIGENT sci-fi that concentrates on telling a story rather than political point-scoring.
I’m a Hollyweird director, hear me whimper.
“Dollhouse is very cerebral (no pun intended) writing. It’s gorgeous and thought-provoking. The other night, after I finished re-watching season one with my roommate, we wound up having a four hour discussion about philosophy… inspired by the show. No exaggeration. If you don’t like it, perhaps you’re just to dense to get it. If this show gets canceled it will prove once and for all that entertainment is produced for the lowest common denominator. =/”
Actually, while TSCC fans have acted like juvenile tools (remember to thank DEkker for that), Dollhouse isn’t intelligent TV.
It tries to be, but there’s far too many plot holes with the general concept never mind how Whedon doesn’t organically develop stories but forces them to both put out his political agenda or to push his cronies irrespective wether their chars’ actions make logical plot sense or are characteristic of how they’d behave.
“I can’t wait to Eliza mops the floor with Summer’s character.”
Well technically Eliza’s already blown her away when they did those ads together last year, Summer looked like she was reading from a teleprompter, while Eliza was pouncing on every one of her lines like a jungle cat.
“sluthouse needs to go fox, bring my terminator back. Btw, I seriously expected the last two episodes not to suck, you would think if the producers/writers knew they only were booked for 7? episodes they would try harder. So far this season isn’t even as good as last years.”
DH isn’t close to great SCiFi.
Still better than Boremanator: The Glau Can’t Act Chronicles though.
Is XFEver really notty22 in disguise? LOL
SMALLVILLE is getting SUPERNATURAL’s numbers. It will be fine.
At the risk of massive wrath from “Dollhouse” fans, I have to point out that even the lowest rated daytime soap opera last week, “One Life to Live,” attracted 2.4 million viewers every single day. That’s 300,000 more viewers than watched “Dollhouse” this Friday in prime time.
XFEver, stop spmming you ugly troll. Nobody wants to read your stupid rants.
Eliza Dushku cannot even compare to Garry Coleman in acting ability, let alone Summer Glau. If you think Summer killed the already rotting corpse that is Dullhouse, you should seek mental help for your paranoid dellusions. (I do think, however, that it was a mistake for her to even step foot on the set of this record-breakingly horrible show)
I think notty22 tried talking to Summer at a convention or something and she ignored him, so now he uses all his spare time between playing Warcraft and fantisizing about prostitutes to bash her.
Wow with this kind of drop of for Dollhouse it will lose a demo point everyweek. The show deserves these bad ratings i mean ok Joss screwed up season 1 with so many bad episodes but to do the same again with season 2 is just terrible. He will never work with FOX again i guess or any network for that matter.
Boremanator or Boreminator ? however it describes TSCC very well ! LOL
I think law and Order did fairly well last night. The viewing figures for Law and Order are quite good, its just the demo which needs to improve a bit. I think its bad of NBC to put L&O in a Friday slot especially when its one of the best shows they actually have. It deserves to be on a Wednesday or Tuesday.
I don’t understand something, Ghost whisper gets 7 million and a 1.7 in 18-49 but yet people criticize Fringe for getting 6.2 million and a 2.3 in 18-49. Ghost whisperer has been on the air for years.
or do networks have less expectations on fridays than they do on thursdays?
bibbyjosh, “do networks have less expectations on fridays than they do on thursdays?”
Yes, that’s exactly the case. CBS is really the only network to have consistently programmed scripted shows on Friday prior to this season, and for them, they seem to expect ~70% of the ratings from a Friday show vs. a show on Sunday-Thursday to renew a show. Although that’s working off perilously few data points.
Kate – Its 100% that Medium is running a full 22 episode year, which is why CBS picked it up. Will it get another year on the network? very likely.
XFE – The only reason Terminator got another year is because every other new FOX series from 2007-2008 season was cancelled. (CBS’s Big Bang Theory was also the lone new series from that season) Now that FOX actually renewed all 3 of their new drama series (For the first time ever) They dropped the sinking low rated Terminator.
Now Dollhouse is slowly dying and there it has less of a chance of getting a full season than it did of getting a second season.
The only reason FOX ordered a 2nd season of Terminator was because Warner Bros reduced the licesing fee so that they could use it as a vehicle to promote Terminator: Salvation. The show wasn’t cheap and under 5M viewers a week didn’t justify a renewal. Plus, once the movie left theatres, there was no reason for WB to lower the licensing fee, Plus, FOX didn’t make a dime off the show in DVD sales either. While the ratings suck for Dollhouse, it’s still more profitable than Terminator.
Overall, wow it was a horrendously slow Friday. Guess everyone turned their TV’s off and went out to the movies, dinner or high school football games. Although I am a huge TV watcher, I don’t blame other people for using Friday and Saturday to go out and have a good time and not be couch potatoes.
There is nothing to worry about regarding Smallville. As mentione before, it’s a 9-year veteran and the CW is using it to improve on their previous Friday nights. Hell, I’d rather see a fresh new episode of Smallville than repeats of 90210 or One Tree Hill or airing The Game or Girlfriend, which has a very limited appeal/audience IMO.
Don J, Dan, do not forget that TSCC did *well* in the spring of 2008
2007. That was against strike reduced competition though. The surprise to me was that it cratered so quickly in the fall of 2008 against normal competition.The reduced license fee is likely why Fox *kept* airing episodes of TSCC last season, once it’s 2008-9 results became “look away” awful.
I can’t wait for the whining from the site when Chuck gets canncelled.
cody, every show cancellation generates whining from its fans (some a lot more than others). None will generate whining from *me*.
Bill- I think you mean Spring of 2008. And it did do well. The series cratering so quickly was no surprise. The series ratings were sinking through its first season, (kind of like Pushing Daisies) and it aired in a competitive timeslot (Against Dancing, Mother/Theory, and Chuck). Along with the waning Prison Break the interest dwindled but FOX ordered a full year likely to burn off alongside Dollhouse and to hold interest until the new movie. Terminator was also the first drama renewed for a second year since Bones and normally if FOX renews a drama for another season it stays for a while and if it doesnt do well at first its axed in or around 1 season. Terminator lasted 2, and I think Dollhouse will be the second series in a while to just last 2.
I wish we could all act like adults and agree that both TSCC AND Dollhouse are terrible shows that deserve to be canceled. Watching people battle over such mediocre product is like watching people debate the merits of Dane Cook vs Rob Schneider. Can’t we just get rid of both of them and start over? Preferably with higher quality sci-fi shows?
With ratings like this, it won’t be long ’til all the networks give up on Fridays just like they did on Saturdays. CBS should dump OC & GU and move “Ghost Whisperer” to Wed., move “Medium” to Sun. and just put “Numb3rs” to rest since it’s dying anyway. They probably do just as well with the return of “60 Minutes 2″, repeats and cheap concert specials. It sure would cost a lot less than paying the cast of Numb3rs & JLH. ABC should stick with encores and “20/20″, NBC should stay put until L&O closes its 20th season, then retire it like they’ve planned and have 2 hour “Datelines” and TJLS from then on – Inexpensive fare. Fox should bring back “5th Grader” and run repeats @ 9 and CW could continuing running ANTM reruns or just abandon the night altogether like they did Sundays. Fridays are only going to get worse so the networks might as well face it and stop wasting expensive programming like DH & Numb3rs on such a rotten night.
RW – CBS will stick with the Ghost Whisperer/Medium/Numb3rs atleast through 2010-11. While numbers are getting worse overall, networks dont see it that way. While virtually every network has cut out saturdays, they all still have fridays and while CBS always wins, every network tries to compete for second, with NBC usually getting that slot followed by ABC and FOX.
As for Christine and Gary, its likely by fall of 2010, one of those will be gone (maybe the aging Christine), but CBS is not giving up on their second night of comedy. I still think CBS’s 2010-2011 schedule could end up like this.
Sundays
7:00 60 Minutes
8:00 Amazing Race
9:00 The Mentalist
10:00 NEW DRAMA
Mondays
8:00 How I Met Your Mother
8:30 NEW COMEDY
9:00 Two and a Half Men
9:30 The Big Bang Theory
10:00 CSI Miami
Tuesdays
8:00 NCIS
9:00 NCIS LA
10:00 NEW DRAMA
Wednesdays
8:00 Rules of Engagement
8:30 Gary Unamrried
9:00 Criminal Minds
10:00 CSI NY
Thursdays
8:00 Survivor
9:00 CSI
10:00 NEW DRAMA
Fridays
8:00 Ghost Whisperer
9:00 Medium
10:00 Numb3rs
With this, Old Christine is let go (maybe to ABC), veteran Cold Case is axed, NCIS LA is the only new drama to get another year, CBS stays with their Friday Nights, The Mentalist moves to 9, and three new dramas will be given 10pm slots.
I feel bad for Eliza Dushku. She’s a great actress but this will be her second series cancelled in just a couple of years. Not a good track record. I just watched this show this weekend for the first time. I only watched the 2 episodes of this 2nd season so I am completely lost. I just don’t know why anyone would spend their money on renting these brainwashed people? Hello! I would be worried one of them would snap and start stabbing me for no reason. I see this Echo character already went bonkers and tried to kidnap a baby that didn’t belong to her. I don’t know. The concept of this show seems rather weak. I could see this being used for a series like “La Femme Nikita” or “Alias” but for just wealthy clients needing prostitutes or fake mothers? I don’t get why you’d take the risk.
Because for everyone to agree, everyone would have the same opinion. If that were the case… ratings wouldn’t be required. Albeit, you’re saying that in the one of the most sympathetic forums available.
Danny – Some people have no luck on series, some people (Kelsey Grammer) lead on 2 long running series (Cheers, Frasier) but then fall flat (Back to You, Hank). Some (Nathan Fillion) cant seem to catch a break (Firefuly, Pasadena, Drive, Castle). The thing about actors is that, when one thing fails, they just move on and networks dont blame them. They get new deals. Look at Jenna Elfman. A few years after Dharma and Greg she moved on to CBS’s sitcom Courting Alex and after that was axed, CBS still kept her for Accidentally on Purpose. Dont feel bad for the actors, they still get paid, and if a show flops its never really their fault.
I’d be willing to bet money Numbers is getting their series finale ready. No way CBS going to keep paying the high fees and its large cast for those kind of numbers (pardon the pun) – especially for an aging show in its sixth season.(At least GW & Medium get good female demos.) Looks like Cold Case & Numbers are gone unless CBS has a bad bunch of pilots this spring.
It’s a wonder ABC doesn’t try a All-Disney TGIF lineup since it appears that only little kids & seniors are home Fridays anyway …
Who cares about Dollhouse or Terminator? They both stunk and neither deserved a second season. FOX would’ve been better off airing repeats or finding something else for Friday’s.
I like what ABC is doing by airing reruns of their new shows on Friday. Maybe FOX should go that route in the future.
I’m a very big fan of the work of Joss Whedon, but I must say that “Dollhouse” — for whatever reason — is simply not his best work.
I watched all of the first season, stumbling along through this thousand-chef soup, all the time seeing the story’s potential.
But I only made it through the first two-thirds of its season two premiere. Honestly, I had no idea what was going on. There were strong emotions that seemed to come from nowhere, exposition that didn’t expose anything, etc.
I believe it may be possible that Mr. Whedon has spent too much time lately working in the comic book genre, because “Dollhouse” feels less like a TV show and more like a *storyboard* of a TV show.
Flashing from one image and/or set-piece to another, with no narrative to connect them.
I would suggest “Dollhouse” be allowed to die, so that Mr. Whedon can get on to something better.
Thanks for your time.
I love the people who condemn the “whining” by… whining themselves.
Truly, if you have no interest in one or more of the programs being discussed then that’s often a good reason not to post on a topic.
Boyd – I think that CBS would keep Numb3rs at least through 2010-2011 just because it works well with the other series and I dont think CBS is read to find a 10pm replacement just yet. Here’s my thought
May 2010 Axed: Cold Case, Three Rivers, The Good Wife, Miami Trauma, The Bridge.
Porky – ABC is only airing reruns to get more exposure from series that are acclaimed and likely to get full years (Modern Family, Cougar Town, FlashForward) Soon Ugly Betty and Supernanny will come into play. Anyway if FOX didnt renew Dollhouse, than its likely Kitchen Nightmares would have aired in the 9:00 slot not unlike Fall 2007 wednesdays
Fall 2007 Wednesdays
8:00 Back to You
8:30 Til Death
9:00 Kitchen Nightmares
Fall 2009 Fridays
8:00 Brothers
8:30 Til Death
9:00 Kitchen Nightmares (had Dollhouse not been renewed)
Whats done is done. Dollhouse has been renewed and is doing badly while Til Death and new comedy Brothers are waaaay down. In my opinion, I would leave Til Death and give Brothers a full year in the 8-9 slots. They’re cheap and FOX already gave Til Death a full fourth season. Now what FOX should figure out is what will replace Dollhouse, and where will Lie to Me go for midseason.
@ porky,
Q: “Who cares about Dollhouse or Terminator?”
A: Those people who watch/watched those shows.
Some people like the series, some people dont. I personally havent watched Terminator and only have seen a few eps of Dollhouse. I dont have a bias, but in terms of numbers, i’d say to FOX, just air Dollhouse out. And I think they will.
I have to agree more with you Boyd than Dan. Numb3rs will be history by year’s end unless it shows some amazing increase over the next few months. As much as I hate to say it the show is obviously in decline and CBS isn’t going to keep paying for it when they can get a cheaper program that can pull the same ratings. And I’m sure that is what they are thinking too.
Medium rocks!
RW – Do you think though, that CBS can find a series to replace Numb3rs and get higher numbers (no pun intended) Remember Ghost Whisperer and Numb3rs have stayed put since 2005 and since then CBS has tried out new series in the 9:00 slot, none of which really worked and since 2005 all have gone down.
Threshold (2005) – This series couldnt hold up between Ghost and Numb3rs, so CBS did a switch with Close to Home, and Threshold eventually got axed in the Tuesday 10pm slot.
Close to Home (2005-2007) – This series was going to be axed if CBS had not moved it to Fridays at 9. Though this series held up over 2 years (11 million average) the series was the weak point of the night and CBS let it go.
Moonlight (2007-2008) – This series initially did OK in the 9:00 slot and maybe if it werent for the strike, this one would have stuck around. The strike killed it though after the series dipped from 9 million to 7 million.
The Ex List (2008) – One of the lowest rated series, this show brought down Ghost Whisperer’s and Numb3rs, ratings down, so it was axed quickly.
Flashpoint (2009) – This series did one of the best as a replacement and probably would have stayed in the 9:00 slot had CBS not picked up Medium.
Medium (2009-present) – Medium is currently doing the best and all 3 series are consistent though total viewership is down.
Based on such a good combination (Ghost Whisperer/Medium/Numb3rs), I really dont think CBS would mess with that. I really think they would stick with that lineup through next year, and I dont think Numb3rs is in any danger.
@DW says:
“I wish we could all act like adults and agree that both TSCC AND Dollhouse are terrible shows that deserve to be canceled”.
But their quality is subjective and part of being an adult is understanding that others can honestly have a different opinion than you do and not be offended by their right to hold those opinions.
I can name off tons of what are for me terrible shows on TV. That would include shows like Cougar Town, Grey’s Anatomy, Private Practice, Brothers & Sisters, The Biggest Loser, Trauma, Mercy, Two & A Half Men, 90210, Melrose Place and those are only the ones that I can think of off the top of my head.
And the procedurals might be technically well constructed, shows like CSI, CSI, CSI, L&O, L&O, L&O, Cold Case and the rest, but all of the episodes that I have seen (not very many) are as interesting as watching paint dry. It’s something that every one should do once or twice in their lives, but on a regular basis? That’s very much not for me.
I don’t understand how people can actually enjoy watching those shows listed above, but would it be right for me to ask those fans to justify themselves to me? I may be wrong, but I don’t believe so.
So to answer your question, we are not acting like adults when all of us won’t take the time to understand that “TSCC AND Dollhouse are [not] terrible shows that deserve to be canceled” just because we (or you) don’t like them.
Their ratings may (or may not) cause them to be canceled, but that is something else entirely.
Dan, I’m sure Without a trace fans thought their show was safe at this point last season too. An expensive show like Numbers is far from safe with the drop in demos it is experiencing and its cost continuing to rise. If CBS has a good crop of pilots, CC & Numbers are out of there before Good Wife to be sure. Can’t say about the rest since they have yet to air.
As for DH, Fox would be foolish to air all 13 episodes if it drops to a 0.6-0.5. And it will if they let it be known that the show is cancelled. They could probably air House repeats and get a 1.5 so why would they put up with a 0.5? Because they already paid for the episodes ??? Please! They would be better off cutting their losses.
Boyd – CBS mentioned that it was a toss up Between Case and Trace and I always thought Trace because it was one of CBS’s oldest series. Cold Case is gone just because its airing at 10pm sundays, and has a likely low rated lead in (Three Rivers). But Ghost/Medium/Numb3rs are consistent. Numb3rs “numbers” may have gone down but I still think it has a seventh season left in it. I just couldnt see what CBS would replace the show with to get higher numbers. I dont think FOX would let anyone know that Dollhouse is axed at least until 7 eps air. Sure the demo is bad but I think FOX will burn them off. They renewed the show, they knew what they were getting into.
I still think if CBS has any open slots for next season it should be 10pm Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday. They should move The Mentalist to sundays at 9 leading in to a new series, leave the NCIS/NCIS:LA combo on tuesdays lead into a new drama, and have Survivor and CSI lead into a new series.
@Dan says:
“Some people like the series, some people dont. I personally havent watched Terminator and only have seen a few eps of Dollhouse. I dont have a bias, but in terms of numbers, i’d say to FOX, just air Dollhouse out. And I think they will”.
That does seem very much the case Dan based on my observations. I think that you are very devoted to the numbers as well as taking into account a Network’s past decision making when attempting to predict how that Network will act in the future. Which most likely makes you right in a very high percentage of your predictions. There are times that a Network will have other priorities that cause them not to act in the most rational way based on the numbers (see The CW). But those decisions are most likely difficult to guess anyway.
Based on nothing other than the numbers then Dollhouse should be canceled. I think that the lower budget and certain other factors have prevented that, but the axe could still come at anytime. But I, and I’m guessing at least a few other fans, will continue to hope that it can continue. We can do nothing else but wait and see.
AO – I meant I didnt have a bias in my opinions of the series quality. As for the shows numbers, I knew 100% Terminator would be gone and I thought there was a slim hair of a possibility Dollhouse would be back. The numbers show Dollhouse should be axed, but Til Death is staying on with those bad numbers. Though Dollhouse is a drama, FOX did order another year. My bet is that Dollhouse’s situation would be like Pushing Daisies/Dirty Sexy Money/Eli Stone where after the shows November 13th episode, FOX announces that at this time they would not be ordering anymore episodes past the current 13 which effectively spells the end for the series. I think all will air out though, just to get rid of the show.
Dan – Oh, I just assumed that that was a given. So you’re saying that you might have a bias with the numbers?
The ABC parallels might make sense, but do we have any evidence that Reilly thinks in the same way? Obviously he doesn’t think in the same way as previous Fox management where it was popular to cancel a show 2 or 3 Episodes in. But that in and of itself doesn’t mean that he will go the same route that ABC did with PD, ES and DSM.
CBS only solved their Friday at 9PM problem just in time for Numb3rs to be past its prime. I’m sure few expected WAT to get the axe last year at this time but it did. In their position, CBS can afford to get rid of expensive shows that they don’t feel are pulling their weight anymore even if they can still be considered a hit. With Leno & 20-20 at 10, I’m sure CBS thinks they have a lock on the night if they put a more inexpensive drama in the timeslot that’s fresher and more-female oriented than Numb3rs. They know Numb3rs is sliding and very rarely do shows experience a turnaround like NCIS did on Tuesdays – and that was partially because House moved to Mondays (less competition) and non-stop airings on cable helped it make new fans as well. But I don’t see any such reversal for Numb3rs on Fridays. Unfortunately Numb3rs is not in that same position because it appears its cable repeats haven’t bought in any new viewers as the ratings indicate. As much as I love the show, I just don’t think its future looks good when you consider the overall situation. It seems there is nowhere to go from here but down.
RW – Numb3rs may go down but it isnt out just yet. In the same vain as Case getting saved with Trace being axed, in May 2010 Case will be axed while Numb3rs could get another year. I think Numb3rs numbers could drift back up around midseason like they did last year. I could see Numb3rs getting the axe in May 2011 but I really believe CBS has another year left with the combo. Friday series usally get cut slack, but if its a toss up between Numb3rs and Cold Case, id go with Numb3rs being axed. CBS will likely have 3 drama slots open. With Case and Three Rivers likely axed that gives 9-10 and 10-11 free sundays and if CBS moves The Mentalist to sundays at 9 (to have an established drama air in that slot) we have 10-11 open sundays and 10-11 open thursdays. I dont see The Good Wife getting a second year which leaves the troubled Tuesdays at 10 free. If my theory is correct, than CBS would have 3 free 10pm slots for new dramas, I dont think they would give up on Numb3rs just yet.
Dan,
You’ve continued to mention The Good WIfe as a CBS show that will most likely not be renewed, but I am wondering why? It seems to me like it’s doing decently.
Both RW & Dan have good arguments but I am more inclined to believe “The Good Wife” would be renewed over “Numb3rs” at this point of this (way too early) season. “Numb3rs” cost CBS plenty, has already peaked and is dropping, “Good Wife” is new, probably is a lot cheaper to produce and has a lot more potential. In fact I can see CBS wrapping up “Numb3rs” at season’s end and moving “The Good Wife” into its timeslot, leaving Tuesday at 10 free for their best new show next year.
And you’re right RW … I don’t know anybody who expected “Without A Trace” to be cancelled last October. If CBS needs to make room for new shows at the end of the season, I expect “Numb3rs” to be second to go, right after “Cold Case”. “Three Rivers” should be long gone before then so it won’t count.
BTW, I would say “Gary Unmarried” is more likely to go before “Numb3rs” but “Gary’s” cost way less and pulls in better demos than “Numb3rs” so far this year. Anyway you look at it, “Numb3rs” has to be in danger.
AO – Its not that I have a bias with the numbers, its just that I know that to expect from each network.
ABC – If you look at this networks record from the past few seasons, youll notice they will rarely pull a drama or comedy unless its doing awful. The earliest last season was the cancellation of Daisies/Stone/Money but ABC did atleast air out the episodes. This season I expect Eastwick and The Forgotten to air out most of the episodes but unless they have a giant drop, they probably wont be “pulled”. Hank however might be in November but ABC will keep that night intact until they can fill Hanks slot with holiday specials. I notice from ABC that they have new acclaimed series with good ratings (Flashforward, Modern Family, Cougar Town) These series should get a full year.
CBS – This networks formula every year has been the same since fall 2006. Usually 1 new comedy that will get a full year or additional eps, and 3 dramas. 1 drama will do really well initially and will be renewed (Shark, Moonlight, The Mentalist, NCIS LA), 1 drama will do well but will eventually decline and the network may give it additional eps or air it out (Jericho, Cane, Eleventh Hour, The Good Wife). 1 drama will be axed after a few eps (Smith, Viva Laughlin, The Ex List, Three Rivers). So based on this pattern, NCIS LA will get a full year, Accidentally and Good Wife will get additional eps, and Three Rivers will be axed at the end of October.
CW – This network is different every year. In 2006 and 2009 they have axed a drama after a few eps, that did badly following a veteran (Runaway & The Beautiful Life) These were probably axed first because of bad retention and the fact that the network had a lot of other shows. During 2007 no dramas were axed initially (likely bc of the strike) but there sunday lineup was gone after the strike ended. Last year, CW got rid of their entire underperforming sunday lineup and kept everything else until May. As far as Melrose and Vampire, both should get a full year.
FOX – FOX is tricky. Some years they will axe a drama after a few eps (Head Cases), some years they will let low rated series air out (Justice, Standoff, Vanished, KVille). They always cancel 1 series though at least by October. The series is usually a newcomer but this year, with so many good returning performers, ill bet Dollhouse will be axed by the end of the month. Brothers may be kept because its cheap and can always be aired with FOX’s never ending Til Death. Glee has already gotten a full year and I think FOX will give one to Lie to Me too.
NBC – Every year NBC has a few acclaimed series or that they like. The series that does the best will be kept and saved (Friday Night Lights, Studio 60, Knight Rider, Chuck, Life). Series that NBC cancels is usually burned off on saturdays (Kidnapped, Crusoe), or it their current slot (Bionic Woman, Journeyman, My Own Worst Enemy Lipstick Jungle) Its rare that NBC ever has any dramas that do well on their own. Looking at past falls for NBC and how their schedule has changed eliminating 10pm mon-fri I can make a decent bet for their new series. Trauma and Mercy are doing OK in the ratings. I doubt NBC would pull either show, in favor of repeats. If neither gets additional eps, both will air out until February when Chuck replaces Heroes and new dramas come in. Community will get a full year to fill the short gap, and because of good retention.
So as far as leniency with new series, from most to least
ABC – Will let series air out until November/December.
NBC – Will burn off 1 drama that does badly on saturdays, and usually renew the rest.
CW – Will go either way depending on their schedule and ratings.
FOX – Will usually go either way depending on how each show does.
CBS – Will axe just a drama after a few eps, and give the other shows a chance.
AO – I think The Good Wife will get a full season or additional episodes, but due to limited scheduling and likely declining ratings (Tuesday 10pm) by May I dont think Wife will get a second year. This happened to Eleventh Hour last season. I just dont see it performing well over time.
Red – I usually keep CBS comedies separate from the dramas, as neither has much effect on the other. Gary could be renewed just because Christine is againg, if it is consistent. CBS is patient with their second comedy block. If I were CBS i’d pas Old Christine to ABC after this season and maybe air Rules of Engagement/Gary Unmarried wednesdays. Rules has been underused so maybe id try it Wednesdays. I guess Id admit that Cold Case/Numb3rs are in the Without a Trace/Cold Case dilema from last season. But this year its a given that Cold Case WILL be gone and Numb3rs may be gone. But I dont think its in that much danger. Its possible that Good Wife could be moved to replace Numb3rs if it comes back, but would CBS be willing to take a gamble on a drama series that may not hold it own on fridays.
Only time will tell, if Good Wife drops over time it will be axed at the end of the season. If it does well it could get renewed. Another guess is that one of CBS’s midseason dramas could replace Good Wife after it finishes its run(like how Harper’s Island replaced Eleventh Hour. It could turn out like this after Three Rivers gets axed.
Sundays Nov-Dec
7:00 60 Minutes
8:00 The Amazing Race
9:00 Cold Case
10:00 Flashpoint
Sundays Jan-May
7:00 60 Minutes
8:00 Arranged Marriage or Undercover Boss (Jan)/The Amazing Race (Feb-May)
9:00 Cold Case
10:00 Flashpoint (Jan)/The Bridge or Miami Trauma (Feb)
Tuesdays Jan-Feb
8:00 NCIS
9:00 NCIS LA
10:00 The Good Wife (Jan-Feb) Miami Trauma or The Bridge (March-May)
Thursdays
8:00 Arranged Marriage or Undercover Boss (Jan)/Survivor (Feb-May)
9:00 CSI
10:00 The Mentalist
CBS has 2 midseason dramas, and 1 could air 10pm sundays, and 1 could air when Wife finishes. Theres also a Gap in January where Survivor and Amazing Race takes a break so CBS has Undercover Boss and Arranged Marriage for those slots.
Well Dan I wouldn’t be surprised if CBS pops in special episodes of “The Good Wife” or “Flashpoint” in “Numb3rs” time slot as a test to see if “Numb3rs” is getting tired. If that happens, “The Good Wife” or “flaspoint” is there next season to be sure.
Network scheduling based on past seasons is all well and fine but there is going to come a time when CBS, as well as they are doing, will be forced to cancel 2 or 3 veteran series at once because of cost, especially if they have a strong pilot season next year. Just because it was an either/or last spring with Cold Case and Without a trace doesn’t mean it will be this spring. As I said, no one thought Without a trace was in danger at the beginning of last season. With CBS towering over the competition virtually every night but Sunday, they can afford to look at the bottom line and say does this show have a chance of improving in the ratings vs. its cost – especially since they have experienced no backlash from letting go of Without a trace this year as their ratings bare out. In fact, they are probably more likely to cancel more than one this season for that very reason. And when you look at the bottom line, CC & Numbers are two very expensive shows CBS can afford to let go of, ratings-wise and cost-wise.
Well, due to the Dollhouse fan whining and excessive boredom with this seasons offerings, I decided to check out the new season on Hulu.
Previously, I gave up after the fourth episode of season 1 because I found the show unwatchable and because the wife already gave up after episode 1. This seasons episodes aren’t the greatest thing in the universe but they have become at least watchable. So, I may check it out this friday given that there’s so little competing for my eyeballs on broadcast (I don’t have cable/sat).
It’s so bad that I’m now looking forward to watching the TNG reruns that started playing on the local CW. Last year it seems like most of the shows I bothered to watch got canceled so I’m feeling pretty burned-out about investing any effort in new shows. This season’s Dollhouse seems to be simultaneously watchable enough and dumb enough that I won’t care if it’s canceled.
Numb3rs and Cold Case could go the “Without Trace vs. Cold Case” route where one survives or “Judging Amy vs. Joan of Arcadia” route where both were canceled despite rumors that one will at survive.
I hope CBS Friday shows go up in the succeeding weeks. I’m worried if the CBS shows continue to slide it will ultimately lead to them giving up Friday and the other networks will follow suit. So I do really wish their viewership rises again so that the other networks could still hope that there is still an audience for Friday.
Dan, I was only attempting a joke with that bias in the numbers remark. No offense intended.
Thanks for providing such a thorough explanation of your thinking. You have given each Network a more thorough analysis then I have, so I don’t know how much weight my thoughts would carry. But in case you are interested:
With ABC, then I’d pretty much agree with your thinking. Between Eastwick, the forgotten and Castle then I’d expect at least two to be canceled, but not yet. I think that the forgotten will definitely be gone, but I’m still not sure which of Castle or Eastwick that ABC would be more interested in keeping. Castle seems quite steady, so if that remains the case while Eastwick continues to decline then Eastwick would seem the obvious choice. But I have to confess to being a tad surprised by Eastwick’s results. I never expected it to be a big hit, but did expect it to do somewhat better than it has been. The big question for me remains what ABC will do in the Spring. This is Lost’s final Season and considering how well some of their new comedies are doing, will they really want to move them or create a mixed night with Lost? While it may have seemed extremely stupid before the Season began to imagine moving Lost to another night, I have to say that at this point I think that doing so is worth serious consideration.
I don’t really have anything to add regarding CBS. Obviously they are running very well right now and only seem to need to make a handful of adjustments each year. I am guessing that The Good WIfe may do well enough to warrant a second Season, but that’s just my initial impression and circumstances could change or I could be wrong.
Due to the management, The CW seems particularly difficult to predict. Vampire Diaries seems deserving of a full Season and Dawn seems firmly enough behind MP that it will almost definitely have a full Season too, regardless of whether or not it deserves one.
As for Fox, I really do think that it is harder to predict, due to the relatively new President and the fact that there are several interesting variables. Brothers, ‘Til Death and Dollhouse are all cheap and I’m sure that no other show would want to be exiled to Fridays on Fox. A repeat of a successful show seems more likely to me if they really do want to cancel one or more of those. I really am interested to see where Fox fits all of their Spring shows into their lineup.
NBC may keep Trauma and Mercy around for longer than most of the other Networks would, but I don’t see either doing well and would expect that NBC would not look to keep them around quite as long as February. NBC’s ratings seem to continue to be declining in many spots and imo it would be in their bets interests to shake some of the worst performing series out sooner instead of later. Of course they would have to find something to replace them with.
If CBS were to cancel say CSI or one of its spinoffs because of its cost and falling ratings, the effects would be near disastrous. If CBS were to cancel both Cold Case & Numb3rs, the effects would hardly cause to ripple. So what if Friday @ 10 falls from a 1.6 to a 1.4 demo? It would still be competitive for the night. So, if CBS is looking to cut expenses and free up some space on their schedule, these two shows are the most likely candidates to go.
Til Death actualy was retooled yet again, look like they dropped J.B. Smoove’s character, to add the daughter and her hippie husband, now it can be a little bit like “Coach”, the Husband was listed as a star the daughter was not so I assume she will return to school and only be on occasionaly….looks like Fox has skipped the 2 lefover season 2 episodes and the 15 season 3 episodes to show season 4.
I will say the show was funny last night and I hope people will give it another chance.
I would think a comedy Friday night would do well since years ago TGIF was a hit, then again nobody else including ABC has been able to recreate the magic.
Fox- looking at the numbers should just move Brothers and Til Death back to Sunday, at 7
Put Kitchen Nightmare/Moment of Truth on Friday and call it a day…their Friday night works for me since I watch both Til Death and Dollhouse.
Wow at lot of leftover episodes for Til Death!
The WB had a TGIF-like Friday night line up before but it was low rated and only Reba and What I Like About You were considered hits.
I think ABC could do that again if they could utilize Disney but I guess it wont be a hit to the 18-49 demo but isn’t the the tween/kids demo profitable too?
Not surprised by Dollhouse’s dismal ratings. The episode was bad in my opinion and it faced head to head competition with the premiere of Stargate Universe, which is another Scifi show.
However, Dollhouse this year doesn’t have the limited commercials which it did last year that artificially raised its ratings. It can’t get ratings even close to what Terminator got under the same circumstances.
The powers that be just don’t get it in my honest opinion. Quit featuring so much of Eliza Dushku on Dollhouse. She’s killing the show. I like every other character on it with the exception of Ballard (who I consider awful) MUCH, MUCH better than Echo. And I liked Elisha Dushku on Buffy & Angel but I don’t in Dollhouse. The actress who plays Sierra is way better and her character more interesting to me. Victor and Melly are most interesting. Echo/Caroline is a complete bore.
The bottom line is that Eliza Dushku can’t carry a show. The producers should have realized it after last season and retooled the show and brought on a couple of much stronger actors with name recognition. Instead we get the same dribble.
I also don’t see women ever tuning into a show in droves that features the regular characters getting raped in every episode (literally and figuratively) solely for money. And Ballard’s character has lost any moral character that he once had.
It was interesting seeing Jamie Bamber with his native English accent in the last episode but I never could stand Alexis Denisof as an actor so his addition to the show is a huge negative to me.
At this point I’d be surprised if they end up showing all 13 episodes and totally shocked if the back 9 are ordered.
I was expecting that after Alan Tudyk’s strong perforance in the finale that they would try retooling the show over the summer – instead to me it seems that they insist on continuing to push the things that didn’t work last season.
Well, CBS obviously has some incentive concerning Medium, since it already is established. I looked up some stats, and it seems that, according to stats, at the end of its first two seasons, out of all other shows, it was #19 and #35, in that order. Over the next three seasons, it was #61, #41, and last year it went back to #61. The ironic thing is that, if CBS applied the criteria it usually applies to series, it probably would have done the same thing. If Medium was a freshmen series, it probably would be on the way into the great CBS toaster.
Of course, its early, and since CBS had reason to cut it some slack, maybe it will get back to an acceptable level for the net. My point has been how CBS seems to keep on axing series that, in retrospect, they should have kept. Maybe, since Medium already has a profit margin, with dvds and syndication and low production costs, CBS will give it a long leash to see if it can finally fix the chink in their Friday night “link” of shows.
Red – I dont think CBS would mess with their Friday lineup. All 3 will stay until May. I believe that once Three Rivers is axed, CBS should move the waning Cold Case back to 9 and add Flashpoint to 10. Flashpoint has 9 episodes left so CBS could use them to fill 10pm until midseason where CBS can premiere a new drama.
AO – I agree with your thoughts. ABC is the most hard to figure out because between now and midseason they make the most changes. Between Castle, Eastwick, and The Forgotten, I think sophomore Castle will get a full year and the other 2 will be axed by December. Judging on the slope of the first 2 airings of Eastwick and Forgotten my thought it numbers can only go down. ABC has so many new dramas for midseason as well as reality series as well as Lost so their schedule is likely to change drastically. My bet is CW keeps Vampire, Melrose and dumps every other new series. CBS is keeping NCIS LA, and likely Good Wife. NBC’s Trauma and Mercy could go either way. Theyre not gonna fo better but if they dont do horrible, both could stick around until Heroes finishes and Chuck, Parenthood and Persons Unknown premiere around March.
Pete5125 – Timm Sharp was added and as a regular and J.B. Smoove was dropped. Lindsey Broad was credited as a guest star however an article from august on the futon critic said that she was upped to series regular so its likely she’ll be in the main credits at the beginning soon. FOX could move the combo to 7:00 sundays, but the problem is that until January, Football always overruns into 7:00. The Brothers Pilot repeat at 7 was higher than the otiginal airing. Id say for FOX leave both on fridays.
Forg – In total, theres 22 fourth season production episodes, 9 third season production episodes, and 1 second season production episode left for Til Death. It doesnt seem like FOX will air these episodes during this season though. I still think FOX should have burned the remaining Season 3 episodes off last summer. I originally thought the Trace/Case deal would turn out like Joan and Judging in May 05. But CBS kept Case and dropped Trace. Now everyone knows that Cold Case will be dropped. If that series was barely saved last season and now performs badly this year, why would CBS keep it? Numb3rs has a better chance though and I’m sticking by it until May.
Here’s the history of Til Death
Season 1 – 22 episodes produced, all 22 aired
Season 2 – 19 episodes produced, 15 aired
Season 3 – 13 episodes produced, 7 aired; 3 of which were from season 2 and 4 from Season 3
That leaves 10 leftovers…
lainey – CBS is probably happy that Medium is holding up and has the same general ratings as Ghost Whisperer and Numb3rs. At least it can air 22 eps in a steady slot. I think all 3 will do better throughout the season.
With NBC and ABC likely not axing a series until November-December, and with The CW already have axed a series, my guess is that Three Rivers will be the next show axed.
Cancellation list
The Beautiful Life – September 25, 2009
Three Rivers – Late October
Dollhouse – Early November
Hank – Early November
Eastwick – Late November
The Forgotten – December
Mercy/Trauma – February (All episodes aired, not officially cancelled)
Of anyone can think of any new series likely to be axed any earlier than Three Rivers, share your thought.
AO,
I wasn’t asking a literal question and I actually meant to type vs. and not or.
I think complaining about Dollhouse being kept over TSCC is pointless. TSCC fans shouldn’t take it out on Dollhouse or their fans. Whether Dollhouse or TSCC was kept, neither was going to perform well on Fridays. Those saying TSCC should’ve been kept are wrong. It shouldn’t because it did pretty poor as well and cost a lot of money like someone else pointed out. Fox was in a no win situation and they put themselves in that position for Friday night.
There really is no reason to keep Dollhouse around anymore. That’s not to say fans shouldn’t care about a show they like, but let’s be honest, Dollhouse is getting 2M viewers and .8 in the demos on FOX. That’s pretty pathetic for whatever the reasons are.
I’m not sure what FOX’s plans are for the winter/spring on Friday’s, but maybe reruns of House and Human Target would be something they should do. I know it’s copying ABC with Flashforward, but clearly, Human Target is looking like FOX’s only hope for something different to breakout this year.
I don’t think they’ll do that though.
Dullhouse with 2 million viewers is at CW-like levels. Axe the thing already.
When a rerun of the forgettable “The Forgotten” doubles up Dullhouse, its time hear the whisper of the axe and it send Dullhouse to the graveyard.
Interesting that a show that was cancelled just a couple of months back(Medium)…is now the number one show on Fridays (demos speaking)…proving again that NBC executives have been making questionable decisions….
DJ Mike – NBC didnt initially axe Medium. They just wanted a midseason order of 13 eps, while CBS wanted 22. So it was a cost thing since NBC doesnt own the series. Medium has always been a reliable performer at 10pm.
Hopefully all the 13 DOLLHOUSE 2nd season episodes will be shown – 26 episodes for any show is a pretty good run. But, if they’re pulled, then Blu-ray is just as good. A 3rd season seems out of the question at this stage so, as a fan of the show, it doesn’t matter too much to me whether it gets cancelled or not.
But if it DOES get cancelled I can absolutely guarantee that neither me, nor any of my buddies, will EVER watch BROTHERS again. That’ll teach Fox a lesson they’ll never forget!
Quality-wise it’s about on a par with TSCC. DOLLHOUSE has more potential but, with few exceptions, is not fulfilling it. It’s not vintage Whedon but even sub-par Whedon is better than 90% of what’s on Network TV. However good it gets I don’t see the ratings improving significantly – it’s just not a mass-market show.
I believe they will be shown, whether it be burned off until December, or next summer.
When do the Smallville numbers get updated? I would love to know how much lower the ratings will get! Thanks.
Memo is out.. Dollhouse is getting yanked, and will be replaced by repeats followed by gameshows after 3rd ep.. this week will be it’s last, a planned break on Oct. 16, and it will not return. Sorry fans, I’ve been rooting for it as hard as anyone here.
Chris, got anything I can post on the site?
You are witnessing the death of live Nielsen broadcast TV numbers on Friday night. They are absolutely meaningless. Live +7 numbers are a little clearer of what people are watching, but still do no represent what people are truly watching. Shows aimed at the 18-24 demo are underrepresented, when most of their viewers watch TV online, downloading, DVR or by non traditional means.
Ah, Sycore, we missed you. I see you’re back with the completely unverifiable “Shows aimed at the 18-24 demo are underrepresented, when most of their viewers watch TV online, downloading, DVR or by non traditional means.”
And as always for others who might be open to understanding, these ratings already include DVR viewing until 3am the next day.
What “non traditional means” are left after streaming, downloading, and recording? Radio telegraphy?
Boris, I prefer my Friday night TV watching by semaphore.
Expect writers to talk on twitter soon.. several eluded to it this morning, meeting this afternoon; fridays are now TBA after the 16th right now ;(
Chris, all I saw on twitter was Mo T. saying “work should be interesting tomorrow” yesterday. not enough for us to do a “Dollhouse pulled from schedule?” post. I am hearing (second hand) similar things to what you’ve heard, but nothing yet from FOX.
Theres already a few fan sites that mention the series as in serious danger of being yanked after October 9, but nothing official from FOX yet.
P.S. while i have no idea who Chris is, Chris gets some “psychic” points! Chris accurately called the 13 episode S2 pickup on March 14, 2009!
–
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/03/14/friday-ratings-ghost-whisperer-wins-tscc-and-dollhouse-higher/14540#comment-59397
Dan, it’s definitely official that Dollhouse won’t air on 10/16 and that has nothing to do with the ratings. The first game of the ALCS (MLB American League Championship Series) is scheduled for that night on FOX.
Robert – We all had a glimmer of a 13 episode pickup. I personally belived Dollhouse would be axed but that 1% chance of it getting renewed, actually worked here. Now that it got renewed, did I ever think it would survive through this season, not a chance. I knew the series would be axed, just not pulled after 3 eps. FOX should have never renewed Dollhouse and just aired Kitchen Nightmares in the slot.
God, I can’t say who I am (publically) but here’s what I know and I will stand by this and bet money it will be confirmed:
There was a meeting today in which staff were basically told ratings need to go UP in order to get a hold and come back on the 23rd, stay the same and they’d consider.. though likely haitus, and if it goes down, it’s out.
Advertisers were basically told that as far as month-by-month ad-buy ins for the network Fox’s schedule has some changes in it, including Fox being TBA for Friday nights after the 23rd.
Fox is concerned that the problem with Dollhouse isn’t fixable, and that they believe that they might have better options Friday night.
That includes a lot of talk about rotating “Glee” to a repeat on Friday night to give it a double-viewing for a while to pickup steam in a show it really believes in, and that it sees as a potential money train.
Chris – were the writers in this meeting?
the multi-talented Maurissa Tancharoen (and wife of Jed Whedon) posted a support Dollhouse tweet via “Twibbons”
http://twibbon.com/join/Dollhouse-4
I’m normally not a “save our show” kind of guy, but I say we all do it on JBF’s behalf!!
I think I’m going to enjoy this “Save Dollhouse” campaign. It’s already committed one of the classic fan miscues.
Rights infringement:
http://anyarose.net/googlebanner_mediumrectangle.jpg
http://anyarose.net/googlebanner_squarelarge.jpg
Is FOX (or anyone else holding the rights to market those actresses likeness) going to come storming into your home with a C&D? Eh, probably not.
Did you create any goodwill with those with the actual “saving” ability that you would want from “Save Dollhouse” campaign? Eh, probably not.
I have to give some credit to the “Save TSCC” campaign. Sure, it was a naive effort (as all “Save This Show” campaigns are), but you know that silly rolling billboard?
Totally free of rights infringements.
Save the “I’m doing it for the show” counter-argument. If you truly respected the show, you would respect rights associated with it.
So its possible the series may be gone after October 23. FOX really shouldnt have renewed this one.
Seems like it may be gone after October 9th.
Regarding Save Our Show campaigns, and Dollhouse:
Save Our Show campaigns can be deeply annoying. And though I admire a lot of Joss Whedon’s work, his fans can sometimes be…overbearing. But not all Save Our Show campaigns are naive vanity exercises that serve as joke fodder in network studio production offices. The Save Farscape campiagn actually did achieve a concrete result–a miniseries that wrapped up the cliffhanger the TV series ended on. And, yes, I contributed $25. I really wanted to know how the cliffhanger got resolved! But unlike–oh, say, some Dollhouse fans just for example–I never went around calling people unintelligent for not being able to “get” Farscape.
One important negative regarding Save Our Show campaigns is that they can get obnoxious quickly. The Save Farscape campaign, though it achieved a measure of success, did have a few bad apples who got obnoxious. So, just putting some friendly advice out there for the Dollhouse folks: try not to be obnoxious. There are people who will not watch Joss Whedon productions specifically because they encountered an annoying Whedon fan. To this date, even though I have all the Buffy/Angel DVD season sets, I have never given Firefly a chance, because the fandom struck me as obnoxious and condescending. That’s money not going into Joss Whedon’s pocket, from someone who *likes* his work–and it’s all due to his fans going overboard. So play nice, folks.
Okay, ducking and covering and back to lurking…
Poor Eliza, it’s Tru Calling all over again for her. The second season of the show only had 6 episodes ending with no resolution
Julia – Maybe October 9th then
Dollhouse does not have a big enough fanbase to do anything. Just look at the season 1 DVD sales.
Everyone says Dollhouse got no promotion, but I remember seeing ads for it in the weeks before the season premiere, and I hardly ever watch TV.
@ mark,
That’s your opinion of the Dollhouse fanbase and you’re entitled to it, but I have not seen widespread evidence of DH fans calling people unintelligent and being insulting. There are of course a few bad apples amidst any group of fans, but in my time reading the comments at this site then the vast majority of the rude comments have been directed at DH and it’s viewers, not supplied by them.
There are those people who like to post little more than “Dullhouse sux”, “Fox sux”, “Whedon sux”, etc ad nauseum. There are those who want it canceled for no discernible reason, those who want it canceled because they personally don’t like the show, those who want it canceled because they hate Fox and those who want it canceled strictly based on it’s poor numbers. Finally there are the T:SCC fans who want it canceled, usually because they are harboring a great deal of anger and/or hate, wrongly blame Dollhouse for Terminator’s cancelation and feel better when they can be rude and hateful towards others. While some of those contributers are able to voice their opinions in a manner that does not include a personal attack against the show and it’s fans, most are not.
Considering the multitude of derogatory comments that are directed at Dollhouse and it’s fans then I find it strange that you can only find fault with Dollhouse’s supporters. If you have a pre-determined agenda then obviously you have already made up your mind about this, but if not, then I’d ask that you to try to read ALL of the comments and keep track of how how often Dollhouse fans actually are rude for no reason vs how often non-Dollhouse fans are rude to Dollhouse for no reason. If you do so, I firmly believe that you will be quite surprised by the results.
Since writers and those are now posting “save dollhouse” campaigns, I assume if they didn’t all know yesterday, they know today.
http://twitter.com/MoTancharoen/status/4658049763
http://twitter.com/Dichenlachman/status/4659725433
Maurissa Tancharoen, writer for Dollhouse, confirms my original post. Whew!
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2 eps Jed and I are really happy with – “Epitaph One” and “Belonging”. We hope, at the very least, you get to see the latter on TV.
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http://twitter.com/MoTancharoen
“Belonging” was scheduled for the 23rd. So this episode, on Oct. 9, is make or break.
AO,
This was posted on Whedonesque today. I didn’t have to dig through the archives looking for it.
“Your average television isn’t about quality. It’s about the cheap. It’s about the “football and beer” tastes of the great unwashed masses. Since TV executives are focused on the lowest common denominator in order to maximize eyeballage, I’m not sure how much longer Dollhouse will live.”
I’ve read dozens of others like it, and this one was mild compared to some others. But the sentiment is the same. I’m not saying that all Whedon fans are elitists. But enough of them are to create a backlash out there. Whedon fans often wonder about the vitriol they sometimes see directed at Dollhouse or other Whedon projects. I think the vitriol is actually directed not at Joss Whedon, who seems a pleasant enough person, but at his fanbase. Anyone who has looked at any thread on any messageboard about any Joss Whedon show is well acquainted with the whole “Joss is a genius/therefore his work is genius/therefore if you don’t like his work you just aren’t smart enough to appreciate it” mindset. It’s out there, and it’s not hard to find. At Whedonesque I’m practically tripping over it. And frankly, I think it alienates potential viewers and does Joss Whedon a disservice. I certainly won’t ever be trying Firefly, and for that you can thank the fans who pestered us all about it endlessly. Not trying to flame Whedon by the way. As I mentioned, I’m fan of Buffy and Angel, I’ve got all the DVD’s. Paid good money for them. I just wish more of his fans could understand that it’s possible not to like Whedon’s shows and still be intelligent. I think Dollhouse is an ill-conceived mess, and I don’t consider myself stupid.
That’s what FOX deserves for letting go of T:SCC. It is sad that even the creator of this show said he would have chosen Terminator over his own show. That means he doesn’t even believe in his show. I know how dollhouse fans feel, and I feel for you guys. I tried getting into Dollhouse, but wasn’t impressed. Hopefully the hardcore fans of Dollhouse won’t be let down like us T:SCC were. I hate FOX for putting out shows that eventually get cancelled. I will never watch Fox again!!!
Mark: AO specifically said “this site”. Posting a comment from a fan site devoted to the subject is not exactly a generalized view on the subject.
I’ve never seen an episode of DH and honestly have no idea who Joss Whedon is, nor do I care, but I hope this show survives because who doesn’t like a happy ending?
In retrospect Dishku probably should have gone with the Buffy spinoff where she would have starred as her Buffy character, Faith. She didn’t want to, basically, have to follow in Sarah Michelle Gellar’s footsteps, at the time, because her performance would have been compared to Gellar. If she had done the spinoff, it would have been at a time when Buffy fans would have followed the show as a continuation of that series, and the Angel series was still on, and she probably could have had a pantheon of the Buffy alumni to come in and give her support in, what was at that time, the ongoing saga of the Buffyverse on broadcast tv.
Obviously, there’s never any guarantee, but she would have started out with a couple of aces instead of the deck stacked against her. Sadly, it looks like J. Whedon thought he could do what he wanted to do four or five years ago, except with a different property, and it just hasn’t worked.
Victor says: “I hate FOX for putting out shows that eventually get cancelled. I will never watch Fox again!!!”
I hate to be the one to break this to you, but all shows eventually get cancelled. (Or were you joking.)
“I really wanted to know how the cliffhanger got resolved! But unlike–oh, say, some Dollhouse fans just for example–I never went around calling people unintelligent for not being able to “get” Farscape.”
That’s so true.
I’d seen two eps of Firefly and had been unimpressed by it, so stopped watching.
I only got to loathing it when the Browncoats started invading general science fiction boards blasting other people for being ‘too stupid’ to appreciate Fillion’s terrible Han Solo rip-off, Glau’s impersonation of a rock, and Whedon’s terrible world-building.
Whedon’s DH has a lot of holes in it, and yet it has a mostly good cast, and is more mature than anything he’s done bar Angel. Yes there are problems with Ballard and the overall concept. Yes, it’s over-rated because of Whedon’s involvement.
But preferable to Ugly Betty, CSI, Cold Case, Lie To Me to name but four ratings winners (in comparison to DH)? Hell yeah.
In light of these Friday night ratings, I guess Moonlight’s ratings and its still faithful fans are looking pretty good to CBS right now, especially in the light of the growing vamp craze and the disappointing numbers for Three Rivers.