What if anything does it say that Dollhouse is nowhere to be found on these lists?

What if anything does it say that Dollhouse is nowhere to be found on these lists?

It says that I’m an idiot who didn’t see that it was for the week ending September 20th. Mea culpa.

It says that I’m an idiot who didn’t see that it was for the week ending September 20th. Mea culpa.

that this list is for the week of 9/14-9/20 and Dollhouse didn’t premiere until 9/25

that this list is for the week of 9/14-9/20 and Dollhouse didn’t premiere until 9/25

Wow. Fringe’s audience didn’t leave the show, they’re just not watching it live. That’s a huge bump.

Wow. Fringe’s audience didn’t leave the show, they’re just not watching it live. That’s a huge bump.

I added in the week’s dates many more times to prevent some of the confusion.

I added in the week’s dates many more times to prevent some of the confusion.

You know, I think you guys might want to hold off on any Fringe Deathwatch posts or the like for awhile with these DVR numbers.

From the looks of things, it’s getting 1.5 points in the 18-49 demos and has a pretty large viewing by DVR. That’s gotta be telling FOX that a lot of people are watching Grey’s Anatomy or CSI live and DVRing the show to watch later.

You know, I think you guys might want to hold off on any Fringe Deathwatch posts or the like for awhile with these DVR numbers.

From the looks of things, it’s getting 1.5 points in the 18-49 demos and has a pretty large viewing by DVR. That’s gotta be telling FOX that a lot of people are watching Grey’s Anatomy or CSI live and DVRing the show to watch later.

I don’t believe there has been a single Fringe deathwatch post even with the L+SD numbers (though I don’t remember what Bill said in the Renew or Cancel Index).

My sense from FOX is that so far they are happy with the Thursday results — at least based on the week above, and that was even before they saw the L+7 #s.

I don’t believe there has been a single Fringe deathwatch post even with the L+SD numbers (though I don’t remember what Bill said in the Renew or Cancel Index).

My sense from FOX is that so far they are happy with the Thursday results — at least based on the week above, and that was even before they saw the L+7 #s.

Have there been any improvements in monetizing DVR viewers? Do you have any idea on how many 18-49 dvr viewers would equal 1 live 18-49 viewer in monetary terms?

Have there been any improvements in monetizing DVR viewers? Do you have any idea on how many 18-49 dvr viewers would equal 1 live 18-49 viewer in monetary terms?

i am Fringe DVR vewier

i am Fringe DVR vewier

Quinn, for now it seems like unless they watch commercials (and from the numbers that have been made available, the number of people who watch commercials live+DVR for 3 days is roughly equal to Live+SD ratings), DVR viewers are worthless. This is something that probably really needs to change, but it’s going to be slow going to get it there. And it will probably mean very intrusive commercials during programming at some point.

Quinn, for now it seems like unless they watch commercials (and from the numbers that have been made available, the number of people who watch commercials live+DVR for 3 days is roughly equal to Live+SD ratings), DVR viewers are worthless. This is something that probably really needs to change, but it’s going to be slow going to get it there. And it will probably mean very intrusive commercials during programming at some point.

Quinn, not really. These aren’t good numbers to sort that out, either and sadly we don’t see the C+3 commercial ratings that the ads are sold on.

Using the program #s are flawed for such analysis because they exclude any fast-forwarding of commercials (both the L+SD and Live+7). In other words, the DVR minutes spent skipping the commercials have already been factored out of these numbers.

Quinn, not really. These aren’t good numbers to sort that out, either and sadly we don’t see the C+3 commercial ratings that the ads are sold on.

Using the program #s are flawed for such analysis because they exclude any fast-forwarding of commercials (both the L+SD and Live+7). In other words, the DVR minutes spent skipping the commercials have already been factored out of these numbers.

That list gave me some good hope on Community, Fringe and Glee.

Community timeslot move is kinda unpredictable. It could earn more viewers due to a little weaker competition or get hurt because the lack of Office lead-in. I like the show but I don’t think it’s getting renewed unless it pulls a 2.0+ and builds a solid fanbase. Fringe is doing fine and it should stay there if it does constant ratings like Bones.

Anyway, how are the DVR numbers going to hurt (if they are) Jay Leno Show?

That list gave me some good hope on Community, Fringe and Glee.

Community timeslot move is kinda unpredictable. It could earn more viewers due to a little weaker competition or get hurt because the lack of Office lead-in. I like the show but I don’t think it’s getting renewed unless it pulls a 2.0+ and builds a solid fanbase. Fringe is doing fine and it should stay there if it does constant ratings like Bones.

Anyway, how are the DVR numbers going to hurt (if they are) Jay Leno Show?

Many of these programs are on Comcast On-Demand. No need to DVR them if you have the service. I often watch NCIS and CSI from the On-Demand service.

Many of these programs are on Comcast On-Demand. No need to DVR them if you have the service. I often watch NCIS and CSI from the On-Demand service.

So if the DVR numbers in this chart include only the minutes of people who didn’t fast-forward, does that mean that the Office really does get a nice profitable bump from the 3.7mil who DVR’d it and still watched the commercials? Sorry, just trying to clarify for at least myself. That seems like a lot of DVR viewing without fast-forwarding.

So if the DVR numbers in this chart include only the minutes of people who didn’t fast-forward, does that mean that the Office really does get a nice profitable bump from the 3.7mil who DVR’d it and still watched the commercials? Sorry, just trying to clarify for at least myself. That seems like a lot of DVR viewing without fast-forwarding.

Quinn, if you watch a show on your DVR and FF through 30 min of a 60 min show you are counted as half an average viewer for the hour. What really matters is how much the average commercial minute gets watched. These numbers don’t measure that exactly though. The numbers we have seen indicate DVR viewing adds almost no commercial viewing.

Quinn, if you watch a show on your DVR and FF through 30 min of a 60 min show you are counted as half an average viewer for the hour. What really matters is how much the average commercial minute gets watched. These numbers don’t measure that exactly though. The numbers we have seen indicate DVR viewing adds almost no commercial viewing.

Ah, I gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

Ah, I gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

The numbers we have seen indicate that the C+3 numbers for the COMMERCIAL viewing aren’t much different than the live PROGRAM viewing. But because commercial viewing and program viewing are two different sets of numbers and because we have never (ever) seen numbers for LIVE commercial viewing there’s no practical way for us to triangulate the data.

Unlike Bill, I don’t think DVR viewing “adds almost no commercial viewing”. All of the studies I’ve seen indicate 75% to 80% of all the commercials get skipped/fast forwarded during DVR viewing. But that means 20%-25% get watched. While overwhelmingly commercials aren’t watched, I don’t view 20%-25% as “almost no commercial viewing”. Though i doubt it is extremely meaningful, either, and not meaningful at all if the commercials are viewed on DVR more than 3 days after the program aired.

The numbers we have seen indicate that the C+3 numbers for the COMMERCIAL viewing aren’t much different than the live PROGRAM viewing. But because commercial viewing and program viewing are two different sets of numbers and because we have never (ever) seen numbers for LIVE commercial viewing there’s no practical way for us to triangulate the data.

Unlike Bill, I don’t think DVR viewing “adds almost no commercial viewing”. All of the studies I’ve seen indicate 75% to 80% of all the commercials get skipped/fast forwarded during DVR viewing. But that means 20%-25% get watched. While overwhelmingly commercials aren’t watched, I don’t view 20%-25% as “almost no commercial viewing”. Though i doubt it is extremely meaningful, either, and not meaningful at all if the commercials are viewed on DVR more than 3 days after the program aired.

I was using the search feature and I found this article http://tvbythenumbers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/TiVo_ARM_May2009.pdf you guys posted awhile back with TiVo data for commercial viewing. Using the data for their 10 ten Pure Program rated shows it appears that commercial viewing averaged 19.1%. I guess that’s small but it still seems like a statistically significant amount.

I was using the search feature and I found this article http://tvbythenumbers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/TiVo_ARM_May2009.pdf you guys posted awhile back with TiVo data for commercial viewing. Using the data for their 10 ten Pure Program rated shows it appears that commercial viewing averaged 19.1%. I guess that’s small but it still seems like a statistically significant amount.

Assuming of course that TiVo’s data set tracks with Nielsen’s.

Assuming of course that TiVo’s data set tracks with Nielsen’s.

Quinn, the data we have seen on a handful of occasions from Nielsen with C+3 commercial ratings indicates that the C+3 commercial ratings for most shows are very close to the Live program ratings for those shows (these DVR posts are the only ones on our site that contain Live viewing numbers any longer, everything else is Live+Same Day DVR viewing).

Quinn, the data we have seen on a handful of occasions from Nielsen with C+3 commercial ratings indicates that the C+3 commercial ratings for most shows are very close to the Live program ratings for those shows (these DVR posts are the only ones on our site that contain Live viewing numbers any longer, everything else is Live+Same Day DVR viewing).

I thought C3 was similar to Live+SD? Either way, Quinn, even if approximately 20% of DVR viewers watch the commercials, it just means that approximately 20% of live viewers change the channels or leave the room (and therefore don’t hit their People Meter button) during commercials.

I thought C3 was similar to Live+SD? Either way, Quinn, even if approximately 20% of DVR viewers watch the commercials, it just means that approximately 20% of live viewers change the channels or leave the room (and therefore don’t hit their People Meter button) during commercials.

There’s a purely mathematical way to look at this, but unfortunately since “fast forward” time is factored out of what we see, we can’t do it.

But a simple way of looking at it is that if 15% of a show’s viewing is on DVR, and 85% of the viewing is within 3 days, and 80% of the people skip the commercials, that accounts for less than an additional 3% commercial viewing overall. Even if 50% of the viewing is on DVR it is still less than 9% extra commercial viewing.

The ongoing (and so far, fruitless) struggle for the networks is convincing advertisers that there is at least some value in the ads, even when they are fast-forwarded over.

There’s a purely mathematical way to look at this, but unfortunately since “fast forward” time is factored out of what we see, we can’t do it.

But a simple way of looking at it is that if 15% of a show’s viewing is on DVR, and 85% of the viewing is within 3 days, and 80% of the people skip the commercials, that accounts for less than an additional 3% commercial viewing overall. Even if 50% of the viewing is on DVR it is still less than 9% extra commercial viewing.

The ongoing (and so far, fruitless) struggle for the networks is convincing advertisers that there is at least some value in the ads, even when they are fast-forwarded over.

Oh, yeah, I was doing my math wrong. Read: Not doing any math at all…

Oh, yeah, I was doing my math wrong. Read: Not doing any math at all…

I didn’t see Survivor in these numbers, yet CBS has a press release touting Survivor DVR numbers. Was that just spin or am I missing someting?

I didn’t see Survivor in these numbers, yet CBS has a press release touting Survivor DVR numbers. Was that just spin or am I missing someting?

No, it was just that for whatever reason (likely that it was designated “Special”) that the data wasn’t included in the data we saw.

Translation: the data is out there, we just didn’t see it in what we received. Unfortunately we’re data beggars rather than choosers when it comes to DVR #s, but I am optimistic we’ll see everything for the week of 9/21-9/27.

No, it was just that for whatever reason (likely that it was designated “Special”) that the data wasn’t included in the data we saw.

Translation: the data is out there, we just didn’t see it in what we received. Unfortunately we’re data beggars rather than choosers when it comes to DVR #s, but I am optimistic we’ll see everything for the week of 9/21-9/27.

I wonder if “$product placement$” opportunities could make these numbers a little more meaningful. Just thinking about shows that employ product placement tactics (30 Rock, Chuck, etc).

I wonder if “$product placement$” opportunities could make these numbers a little more meaningful. Just thinking about shows that employ product placement tactics (30 Rock, Chuck, etc).

I hate how TV works.

Newsflash, I mute the commercials during live tv and look away just for spite. I hate commercials with a passion. If I’m watching the NFL live, I mute every single commercial, plus pull up my guide to block the picture. The amount of commercials is absurd. If it isn’t Toyota infiltrating this country, it’s Pfizer and their 50 drug commercials, or some insurance or alcohol company.

Good riddance!

I hate how TV works.

Newsflash, I mute the commercials during live tv and look away just for spite. I hate commercials with a passion. If I’m watching the NFL live, I mute every single commercial, plus pull up my guide to block the picture. The amount of commercials is absurd. If it isn’t Toyota infiltrating this country, it’s Pfizer and their 50 drug commercials, or some insurance or alcohol company.

Good riddance!

I’m glad Melrose Place gets a pretty good bump by the weeks end with +SD and +7.

I’m glad Melrose Place gets a pretty good bump by the weeks end with +SD and +7.

Do soaps get high DVR ratings?

Do soaps get high DVR ratings?

I was surprised the live plus DVR numbers for Supernatural were so low. I thought the lower numbers this year were because of the increased competition with Fringe moving to 9:00. I know I’m enjoying this season’s apocolyptic storyline but maybe it’s turning some people off.

I was surprised the live plus DVR numbers for Supernatural were so low. I thought the lower numbers this year were because of the increased competition with Fringe moving to 9:00. I know I’m enjoying this season’s apocolyptic storyline but maybe it’s turning some people off.

I think it’s ironic that the show with a really low % of DVR viewing (Jay) would probably have the smoothest product placement transitions.

I think it’s ironic that the show with a really low % of DVR viewing (Jay) would probably have the smoothest product placement transitions.

Kathy B

Well of course Fringe is going to take away part of the audience, but at this point last year (the week above we hadn’t yet faced CSI or Grey’s).

We had a stronger lead in (as Smallville did perform stronger in viewers and adults 18-49 (but not females nor the a18-34). And that can be a huge factor has lead in can have a dramatic impact on your show.

So you might have several hundred thousands fans of Smallville who were just casual fans of Supernatural who no longer watch the show.

We also started last year against almost no direct competition, with the idea that we gain some casual viewers who might stick around. But those tend to be casual viewers as well.

You have to understand most viewers of shows (for any shows) watch more out of habit then zeal. Your intense fan base is probably just a few hundred thousand.

The other thing (I remember looking at the DVR reports all last eyar and the use of DVR on Thursday was exceptionally high)is the limit on how many shows can recorded at one time. With even more choices this year at this time (unless of course Kitchen Nightmares had a serious fan base).

Take for example, if last year you watch SN recorded DVR the Office (a show that had tremendous DVR use), then say that person is also a fan of Fringe. But can only record one show? That puts one show out as an option to watch or record to watch later. This applies to any time slot.

We have had several reports from people already complaining (I think even this site has posted some) about how Thursday is to crowded with shows that people are interested in.

Kathy B

Well of course Fringe is going to take away part of the audience, but at this point last year (the week above we hadn’t yet faced CSI or Grey’s).

We had a stronger lead in (as Smallville did perform stronger in viewers and adults 18-49 (but not females nor the a18-34). And that can be a huge factor has lead in can have a dramatic impact on your show.

So you might have several hundred thousands fans of Smallville who were just casual fans of Supernatural who no longer watch the show.

We also started last year against almost no direct competition, with the idea that we gain some casual viewers who might stick around. But those tend to be casual viewers as well.

You have to understand most viewers of shows (for any shows) watch more out of habit then zeal. Your intense fan base is probably just a few hundred thousand.

The other thing (I remember looking at the DVR reports all last eyar and the use of DVR on Thursday was exceptionally high)is the limit on how many shows can recorded at one time. With even more choices this year at this time (unless of course Kitchen Nightmares had a serious fan base).

Take for example, if last year you watch SN recorded DVR the Office (a show that had tremendous DVR use), then say that person is also a fan of Fringe. But can only record one show? That puts one show out as an option to watch or record to watch later. This applies to any time slot.

We have had several reports from people already complaining (I think even this site has posted some) about how Thursday is to crowded with shows that people are interested in.

I watch everything after I’ve dvr’d it just so I can fast forward through the commercials. That’s the best thing about dvr’s.

I watch everything after I’ve dvr’d it just so I can fast forward through the commercials. That’s the best thing about dvr’s.

Ah bliss, the readability is back

Ah bliss, the readability is back

I hope when the DVR numbers that come out the week of Smallville’s premiere; bring’s it up as high as 90210… I think Smalville is at it’s best – Oh and after the first 2 episodes of Dollhouse – my wife and I gave up – We don’t like the show anymore…

the next new show on TV I will try is “V”…and I’m counting down to “24″…”Fast Forward” doesn’t fit into my schedule sooo – I’m guessing future DVD fun for that one too…I will try LOST & HEROES when they finally finish those shows…

I hope when the DVR numbers that come out the week of Smallville’s premiere; bring’s it up as high as 90210… I think Smalville is at it’s best – Oh and after the first 2 episodes of Dollhouse – my wife and I gave up – We don’t like the show anymore…

the next new show on TV I will try is “V”…and I’m counting down to “24″…”Fast Forward” doesn’t fit into my schedule sooo – I’m guessing future DVD fun for that one too…I will try LOST & HEROES when they finally finish those shows…

I don’t get it. Jay Leno isn’t “DVR proof” like live NFL games.

Apparently, relatively few people care enough about Jay Leno’s show to save the programs on their DVR. And if Jeff Zucker really thinks this is something to cheer about, then he’s an even bigger idiot than i thought.

I don’t get it. Jay Leno isn’t “DVR proof” like live NFL games.

Apparently, relatively few people care enough about Jay Leno’s show to save the programs on their DVR. And if Jeff Zucker really thinks this is something to cheer about, then he’s an even bigger idiot than i thought.

eric, Live sports will always be the most “DVR Proof”.

And with the way advertising is priced now, it’s assumed to better to have your viewers watching Live than via DVR. Of course, you want *more* viewers watching vs. fewer.

eric, Live sports will always be the most “DVR Proof”.

And with the way advertising is priced now, it’s assumed to better to have your viewers watching Live than via DVR. Of course, you want *more* viewers watching vs. fewer.

Robert Seidman says: “…I don’t think DVR viewing “adds almost no commercial viewing”. All of the studies I’ve seen indicate 75% to 80% of all the commercials get skipped/fast forwarded during DVR viewing. But that means 20%-25% get watched…”

Most people actually do watch the commercials while DVRing, and the commercials are actually created with fast-forwarding in mind. Otherwise, the Live + 3 Day never would have been taken seriously by the advertisers when talking about purchasing airtime on the networks.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/16/business/16commercials.html

Robert Seidman says: “…I don’t think DVR viewing “adds almost no commercial viewing”. All of the studies I’ve seen indicate 75% to 80% of all the commercials get skipped/fast forwarded during DVR viewing. But that means 20%-25% get watched…”

Most people actually do watch the commercials while DVRing, and the commercials are actually created with fast-forwarding in mind. Otherwise, the Live + 3 Day never would have been taken seriously by the advertisers when talking about purchasing airtime on the networks.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/16/business/16commercials.html

Blue: according to Nielsen, Nielsen doesn’t count fast-forwarded time in its ratings either for program or commercial ratings.

Blue: according to Nielsen, Nielsen doesn’t count fast-forwarded time in its ratings either for program or commercial ratings.

Yay! So glad the DVR numbers are back. Thanks, guys!

Yay! So glad the DVR numbers are back. Thanks, guys!

Do you have Glee’s Total DVR number for the premiere by chance? Glee’s number here is for its 2nd week.

Do you have Glee’s Total DVR number for the premiere by chance? Glee’s number here is for its 2nd week.

Bryan, we never got the DVR numbers for the week of the Glee premiere. It is unlikely we will get them at this point.

Bryan, we never got the DVR numbers for the week of the Glee premiere. It is unlikely we will get them at this point.

Thanks Bill! Running a Fall TV Challenge pool and one of the categories was the Top Total DVR Viewers number for all new series. I should be able to track down Glee’s number, but wanted to see if you guys had it readily available. Thanks! Love the site!

Thanks Bill! Running a Fall TV Challenge pool and one of the categories was the Top Total DVR Viewers number for all new series. I should be able to track down Glee’s number, but wanted to see if you guys had it readily available. Thanks! Love the site!

Great News for Fringe
and the CW must be pleased with the big boost it got for Melrose (pushing it well over 2 million) and 90210

Great News for Fringe
and the CW must be pleased with the big boost it got for Melrose (pushing it well over 2 million) and 90210

My friend has a DVR and we watch pretty much all of our shows on the DVR because we usually have something going on at church every night during the week. Or we just forget when its on

My friend has a DVR and we watch pretty much all of our shows on the DVR because we usually have something going on at church every night during the week. Or we just forget when its on

“DVR Proof” is an interesting way of putting it – surely what it actually means is that people don’t care enough about missing Leno to bother recording it.

“DVR Proof” is an interesting way of putting it – surely what it actually means is that people don’t care enough about missing Leno to bother recording it.