Below is a comment posted on our blog yesterday by “Chris”. I don’t know Chris, but I don’t think he has it in for Dollhouse either, having predicted its 13 episode pickup for season two as early as March 14, 2009.
Given how bad the ratings have been, I doubt the notion of needing to improve the ratings or risk being pulled off the air are rumor-mongering, especially with Dollhouse writer (and Jed Whedon’s wife), the multi-talented Maurissa Tancharoen posting things on her Twitter account which might be seen as “HELP!!! PLEASE HELP!!!” messages if you’re prone to reading not all that deeply between the lines.
One thing is for sure, Dollhouse definitely won’t air on 10/16 because of a baseball playoff game. How important is Dollhouse’s numbers for this Friday (10/9) to whether it is back on the schedule on 10/23? We won’t have to wait long to find out…
Here’s yesterday’s comment from “Chris”:
God, I can’t say who I am (publically) but here’s what I know and I will stand by this and bet money it will be confirmed:
There was a meeting today in which staff were basically told ratings need to go UP in order to get a hold and come back on the 23rd, stay the same and they’d consider.. though likely haitus, and if it goes down, it’s out.
Advertisers were basically told that as far as month-by-month ad-buy ins for the network Fox’s schedule has some changes in it, including Fox being TBA for Friday nights after the 23rd.
Fox is concerned that the problem with Dollhouse isn’t fixable, and that they believe that they might have better options Friday night.
That includes a lot of talk about rotating “Glee” to a repeat on Friday night to give it a double-viewing for a while to pickup steam in a show it really believes in, and that it sees as a potential money train.
Sell it to Syfy.
^You’re assuming Syfy is willing to buy it.
I can’t wait to see the Dollhouse fans crying when Fox pulls it. The fans better start mailing their miniature dollhouses now.
How much does it have to go up, I wonder. If it’s 1.0 in the finals, would that be good enough? Or do they mean UP! Like, 1.2 or so?
I just dont care anymore about this show. They have done so many bad eps that i just am sick of this show. I hope they axe it soon and put people out of there misery
The Summer Glau curse is almost in full effect!
FOX should have never renewed it. I still think Kitchen Nightmares would have done better in Dollhouse’s slot. Maybe if Dollhouse improves just a little bit it could be kept to air more episodes. Otherwise, Glee repeats are likely.
Dollhouse never should have been renewed for season 2.
I actually might start watching again. I love the “throws of death” period for shows. Remember when Fox gave a similar ultimatum to “The O.C.” and suddenly Marisa and Seth’s Girlfriend became lesbians for no apparent reason and began making out regularly….Good Times
(and Olivia Wilde found a niche, she’s been at least 1/2 lesbian in just about every role since then)
@ Joe
Dollhouse sucks with or without Summer. I hope people dont seriously think that she being on the show affects its future. Maybe if they made good episodes that might make people watch but sadly they aint making good eps.
After all the hype and the promises from Joss and Eliza to fans who stuck with the show, I really have to say I’m completely disappointed. I watched the premiere and new the show dug its grave. Now I have no network shows I watch anymore.
Not surprised at all, there is very little chance this airs in November sweeps with those kinds of ratings.
At this point I don’t see Dollhouse returning (after the 23rd) until Summer or even DVD.
Nick C said they were actually negotiating a back 9 order
I thought the season 2 premiere was brilliant. I was astonished that others didn’t think the same. This isn’t out of a “everything Joss does is wonderful” feeling, either; there were certainly some lame Dollhouse episodes in S1. But I thought the premiere engaged brilliantly with all the issues the show is dealing with, and the scenes with Kranz and Acker were fantastic.
Perhaps the problem is that the engagement is largely intellectual, not emotional, and you can’t carry a show on intellectual engagement alone.
personally i really like season 2 especially the premiere its too bad they lost Amy Acker (though she is contracted for to more episodes somewhere in the remaining 13 but definately not ep 3 or 4)
Didn’t Prison Break tank on Fridays last year too?
It’s not about the show. It’s about Fox not even giving the show a fighting chance. Pulling it won’t make a single difference in the long run. The crappy death slot will still be there and eat whatever lesser show they air instead of Dollhouse.
They may as well have kept Terminator on. At least that one had a killer brand identity and an insane fanbase both at home and abroad.
I would love it if, miraculously, Dollhouse became a summer series for SyFy. However, that’s not going to happen in a million years. This show is flat-lining and it won’t be resuscitated.
I’m a big fan of the show but it’s a terminal cancer patient. You have to prepare yourself for the worst and say your goodbyes because Dollhouse doesn’t have a lot of time left.
About time, I’m amazed dollhouse is still on the air, the first two episodes were even worse than last season. And to people who think the show will pick up – L O L.
@ Eric,
You don’t have to wait to see people crying, just look in the mirror!
It’s Joss Whedon, not Jed. Just trying to help you before the crazy fans come after.
I’m not surprised, but I’m pretty sadden. I don’t blame FOX though…like at all.
Ignore my comment. Did not realize Jed and Joss and two different people.
Ron:
You’re wrong. “Jed” Whedon, Joss’ brother, IS a writer on Dollhouse and Maurissa Tancharoen is, in fact, his wife.
Ha!
I guess that post was a little late, huh?
I’m completely indifferent to the show but I’m going to make the same suggestion I think they should’ve considered for Firefly – sell the show into syndication. It worked for Sam Raimi’s fantasy megahits Hercules: The Legendary Journeys, Xena, and now for Legend of the Seeker. Whoever wants to buy it can and people can watch it on their local affiliates.
Does anyone see a problem with this scenario?
Just play Sci-fi type movies on Friday’s – instaed of renting a movie, watch the Fox Friday Sci-fi night and have Summer Glau host it with limited commercials…
….and don’t say it’s expensive – it’s gotta be cheaper than what they’ve been doing for the last 5 years…
-…. with all that American Idol money they make – they can spread the love by buying big first run movies to TV during sweeps months and then secondary movies the rest of the year -
I have read all the comments and and STILL love this show. I know it’s the Buffy/Angel/Whedon side of me talking, but would HATE to see this show cancelled….FOX, give them a little more time!!!
Pete, the problem isn’t just the timeslot- there’s plenty of shows they could air in the timeslot that would get over a .9.
Sell Dollhouse as a first-run syndication show? Now that’s an idea. What are the chances that local stations would be up for that? (don’t answer that! I can already imagine)
“Pete, the problem isn’t just the timeslot- there’s plenty of shows they could air in the timeslot that would get over a .9″
Like, for example, Dollhouse which last season averaged double the total viewers (I don’t know what the season average was in the Demo but I’d guess 1.2 or 1.3). One way or the other, it ain’t the timeslot (Friday guarantees lower ratings but not that low)
Dan-
I think you and I have both agreed about Kitchen Nightmares being right for Fridays.
Probably what I would recommend doing is running 8-10P encores: House/Glee. That would give Glee some exposure until Kitchen Nightmares comes back. I think it would be pointless to put on Glee encores at 9 if the lead-in was still Brothers/Til Death.
Tom it averaged a 1.5 (1.46) adults 18-49 rating (L+SD) last year.
Few of Mo T Whedon’s tweets:
“2 eps Jed and I are really happy with – “E1″ and “Belonging”. We hope, at the very least, you get to see the latter on TV”
“we know what you know so we’re just forging ahead. writing ep 10; shooting ep 7″
“Dollhouse needs your help – a fan campaign. http://bit.ly/2NslIH” – This is a re-tweet of a link sent to them. The actors & writers will frequently re-tweet things that they get sent to them by fans – vids, essays, etc.
And just for a bit of perpective? Ashley Edward Miller (T:SCC Executive Story Editor) tweeted today about the #savesarah campaign.
Here’s a short article by anthropologist on why Dollhouse isn’t connecting with a broader audience.
http://www.cultureby.com/trilogy/2009/10/robert-seidman-thinks-joss-whedons-dollhouse-fridays-on-fox-will–not-survive-it-is-seidman-says-unmistakeably-done-for.html
Robert, you’re mentioned at the very start!
The problem is that the show didn’t get great ratings to begin with. That way if they lost any viewers, they’d be gone forever. If you missed the first season, you’d be like me and wouldn’t know what in the heck is going on. Therefore you’re not going to get any new viewers. It’s not anything against Dollhouse, it’s just against these high-concept shows.
But Fox should at least let them wrap everything up. Don’t leave it hanging ala Firefly. Dollhouse I can assure you is not getting a movie.
nkinsey – I agree about the Glee encores at 9, but I think FOX will keep Til Death and Brothers just because FOX ordered a full Til Death year and pulling it would just seem like they wasted money. I think Brothers and Til Death will stay fridays until January. Brothers will wrap up its 13 episodes and Til Death can slide over to 7:00 sundays to burn off its eps. Then FOX can schedule something else for 9. I dont know when Dollhouse will be pulled, I just dont think it will air all of its episodes.
whatever happened to the good dollhouse episodes?…. like the ones they don’t air (epitah one)
Dammit…I predicted only 6 episodes of season 2 would air. Reading this, I have a feeling I am going to lose yet another office pool…
It’s pretty obvious from the cast’s tweets that this story is correct.
The major issue they have is that they’ve already filmed most of the season. They can’t just turn around and say “Let’s create something off the wall next Friday that’ll really grab the viewers” because next Friday’s episode is pretty much already on a tape somewhere, ready to go.
So now there’s a tweet campaign (because those are so successful… *groan*) and Dushku’s on Letterman tonight. Everything’s focused on getting the word out, and I don’t think that’ll work.
“Fox is concerned that the problem with Dollhouse isn’t fixable,”
Oh they are concerned NOW? Did they get new management?
I could have told them that last season – and lots of us did.
Oh well, perhaps the next Whedon show will be funny.
Kevin, that link you posted is funny because while I’m sure I made definitive proclamations about DOLLHOUSE in terms of its prospects for a SECOND season, I have yet to make any definitive statements this year.
I have said “of COURSE the ratings matter”, I suppose that could be interpreted as “Dollhouse is definitely done for”, but I never wrote that
I think a huge part of the reason that Prison Break tanked on Fridays (and even then, it did better than Dollhouse is doing now) is quite frankly because PB absolutely sucked during its final season. And it was pretty bad during the third season, too, which I know because I suffered through every last one of them. So by the time it moved to Fridays, it had a year and a half or so of consecutive crappy episodes behind it and had bled viewers less masochistic than I am. Who was left to watch?
Tl;dr: Better Friday programming would very likely get at least marginally better ratings than anything Fox has tried there lately.
@ squiggleslash,
Dushku is on Letterman tonight, though the announcer last night couldn’t even pronounce her name correctly, he pronounced the first part “Dush” as if it rhymed with “lush”.
Veeeery professional.
And a good point about how they can’t change course in mid-stream. The 4th Episode sounds like it will (or would) be quite good and then Ray Wise and Summer Glau are scheduled for the 6th and 7th Episodes. IF we can get that far then those might bring in a few more viewers.
If/when Dollhouse, Brothers, etc are canceled then I’m hoping that they’ll bring back Joe Millionaire and Paradise Hotel. Fox has had less reality programming and maybe those are more in line with what the viewers want?
It hardly matters that they already shot most of the season for Dollhouse. That’s the case with many shows that are pulled, I could list many that were pulled after only handful of episodes aired but had shot more (some Fox ones off the top of my head – Wonderfalls, Kitchen Confidential, Jezebel James). If Fox can air a House repeat or a Glee repeat as seems to be the thinking that would beat out the Dollhouse ratings, they will do so. And don’t bank on them not having some idiotic reality show or some nonsense game show ready to roll out as a backup.
I don’t know about strategy here either. If they pull Dollhouse for ratings now. The people who still like the show may be willing to buy the season 2 DVD. I’m not sure how it works, but wouldn’t be surprised if the hiatus would be permanent instead of airing those eps later if it would increase DVD sales because viewers didn’t get a conclusion to the series.
The Glee thing seems to make sense BTW, far more than House – the usual TVBTN “They could show repeats of this” example. They want to promote Glee, doing a repeat after other comedy shows does actually make a lot of sense.
Well, whatever. I’m becoming resigned to the idea Dollhouse will not be renewed. I think there’s enough time for them to record the remainder of the episodes before the plug is pulled. And Fox studios are going to want their money’s worth, so even if the remaining episodes aren’t aired, they will be on DVD, and maybe even on Hulu.
Dichen Lachman (Actress who plays Sierra on Dollhouse) just tweeted:
everyone play dollhouse on http://www.hulu.com even if you have seen it just play it in the background. x & RT please
I think the “Save Dollhouse” campaign just jumped the shark.
Shelly,
My problem with your syndication scenario is that Dollhouse is a bad show which needs to be removed from the schedules.
Robert, you did have that Goodbye, Dollhouse Part II post…
haha. Damn, so many Dollhouse posts I forgot about that one. That headline does sound definitive!
Dirk, my problem with your post is that it’s based on your personal dislike of Dollhouse (which is a very valid opinion) but not on any reasoned basis of whether a syndication of Dollhouse would be successful or not.
AWFUL TERRIBLE news. I love this show. Probably this mean we won’t get 13 eps, only the 7 they’ve filmed already? No closure on the season?
Will production on Dollhouse shut down, or will the episodes be produced for a DVD release? I think it will still get 13 eps, Happy Hour even still completed its order. I hope the episodes at least air through November 13. Then we can say the show began on friday the 13th and died on friday the 13th.
That sucks at least give us a fair endding, Im not happy about this but, I guess if its just not gonna catch on then they should let it go. But I still dont get why so many people dislike it, its a great show. But the good news is that Fox Loves GLEE! and soooo do I! Ryan Murphy has 2 shows of his now on wednesday nights oct. 14th is the return of Network cables best show ever, Nip/tuck!!!
damn. they’re not messing around. is it even possible that it’ll dip below the .8 it got last week? i mean, it’s completely reasonable and understandable that they don’t want it to go below a .8. i don’t blame them but god i hope they at least pull a 1.0. i’m scared y’all.
grr_argh. Good news/bad news. The good news is it went up to a .9 in the finals. the bad news is the .9.
I hope Dollhouse improves just a little bit so it wont be pulled immediately. It will still be axed however.
I don’t understand how Fox can give this sort of ultimatum when they’re not promoting the show. How exactly do they expect to GAIN viewership when no one who doesn’t already watch it knows anything about it?
thank Robert. so i’m guessing they’ll judge this week’s performance against the .9 instead of the .8?
it should be pointed out that last Friday was down across the board, wasn’t it? It wasn’t just Dollhouse that went down? hopefully everything will go back up.
Grr_argh, the problem is that a 1.0 might still not be enough to please Fox.
Hi, guys! My Internet access is spotty at the moment and will be for a while, so my posts may be infrequent.
I haven’t checked the ratings for episode one, and I’ve just downloaded episode two to check it out. Apparently from the comment above, episode one got a .8? That sucks.
My take: They screwed up again. They should have blown out all the stops on episode one AND promo-ed the hell out of that, instead they just picked up where they left off (a couple months down the road), and quietly addressed some of their issues.
Not good enough.
I don’t see them recovering from this at all. They’re doomed. Just too little too late.
Only thing that irritates me is that we probably won’t get to see Summer Glau’s episodes.
Oh, well, Sanctuary is coming back on SyFy and episode one should be a corker given the cliff hanger in season one.
Hi RSH,
The initial overnights for Episode 1 of DH were 1.0/3 with 2.56 million. I forget what the adjusted totals were.
Episode 2 started at .8 but rose to .9 in the final numbers.
OK, so episode one pulled even with the worst of last season. But the effect of not pulling out all the stops shows in episode two’s ratings. I bet episode three is even worse unless Fox promos the hell out of it as having something worth watching in it.
I haven’t seen 2 yet, just downloaded it. But the synopsis didn’t sound good.
Anyone who doesn’t like Dollhouse is henceforth declared to be stupid. Sorry, but this show’s just plain too good for there to be any other explanation for someone’s disdain.
I know that many people on here think Dollhouse is a terrible show. Now I don’t worship at the feet of Joss Whedon (quite frankly I was never that into Firefly although I liked Serenity), but I really like Dollhouse. Unlike everyone else, I think I get Echo. Echo is Caroline stripped of almost everything except a few core elements including her drive to get involved and help people. When Echo is imprinted with a personality, this drive seems to remain. It’s like the show is asking what is at the core of a person? What is left when most everything has been stripped away?
Anyway, just my thoughts on why I will be watching Dollhouse this Friday. I know realistically that this show may be canceled soon, but I am still going to irrationally hope that it sticks around. I like what I like, and I will continue to like it no matter how ‘uncool’ it is. I just thought I would chime in for the minority, and try to dispel the rumor that all Dollhouse fans are blind sheep.
While I think I have a better chance of growing another arm than syfy(or anyone) comissioning more new episodes I wouldn’t be surprised if they bought the reruns of Dollhouse to the channel for at least a limited run.
They did that for Eliza’s other loser show, Tru Calling after all. Even showed the unaired episodes Fox did show.
TMT says:
“It’s like the show is asking what is at the core of a person? What is left when most everything has been stripped away?”
So it’s some sort of exercise in self-awareness?
Dollhouse isn’t for everyone. It can get people to question their morals. If you had the money, would you hire a Doll? When life isn’t going great, would you sign over use of your body with the promise that you won’t remember anything from that time?
Guess what, there are people that would. I think that scares people. Human Nature is to avoid things we fear, so not as many people watch Dollhouse. Those people don’t want to hear that, with all of the advances in technology, it is very possible people are creating the techbology used in the show.
Once the show’s moral issues are put aside, there are other, smaller questions that come up. The main question being” why”. That’s probably the other reason people don’t like it; Joss doesn’t just tell us why things are happening the way they do. He gives us time to guess.
Now, from all of the negative comments I’ve read here, people don’t like figuring things out for themselves.
I love trying to understand everything that happens in the show. I don’t watch much television because most shows that I’ve seen don’t leave me questioning. Seeing all of the negative comments and knowing that the show probably won’t last saddens me. If it gets pulled early, we’ll never know how some events from Epitaph 1 happened, and the oversea fans will probably have less closure than us here.
Dollhouse isnt fixable, the problem is FOX should have realized this in May. Had they given the slot to Kitchen Nightmares, then FOX’s only problem would be Brothers, which theyd likely keep around just long enough to hold Til Death over, until football is over so Death can burn off sundays and FOX can give fridays at 8 to some other series they dont want.
Friday as a whole isn’t fixable.
Yank all of them off the schedule, air House/Glee repeats there.
Air Brothers at 7:30 after football in Fall, air Til Death/Tucson at 7/7:30 in Spring, and air Dollhouse on Fridays, starting in either March or June.
AdiarShara, I don’t think many people think that technology similar to the Dollhouse will be developed anytime soon. The problem is that the dialogue makes it clear Sierra didn’t consent. She was kidnapped out of her home because she pissed off one of the Dollhouse’s clients. What was done to her is rape, but Adelle,Topher,Boyd,etc. are portrayed sympathetically. Nobody wants to tune it to a show to watch rapists get away with it and be portrayed sympathetically.
Michael – that’s *exactly* why some of us watch it.
Some of us aren’t interested in twee little dramas that depict the world in crude, mindless, black and white terms. Dollhouse is a dramatical version of the Milgram or Stanford Prison experiments. Add that to its humor and drama, and you have a show with remarkable potential.
The real flaws with Dollhouse are not that some of the most sympathetic characters are doing some of the most evil things, it’s that the dynamic doesn’t always work. The show focusses on Echo, but Echo isn’t a character, and if her assignment isn’t interesting then the rest of the show starts to fall apart.
***If you had the money, would you hire a Doll? ***
No? It’s amoral, pointless, there are better ways to spend money and mostly everything can be delivered by thinking consenting person.
***When life isn’t going great, would you sign over use of your body with the promise that you won’t remember anything from that time?**
No. That’s completely retarded.
It’s not that they ask hard question, it’s that the questions are stupid or have been done before in good sci fi in less boring fashion.
I believe Dollhouse speaks to a lot of women about how we are indentified with and how we think about ourselves. Rus’s comments made me think of that.
@squiggleslash:
“Michael – that’s *exactly* why some of us watch it.
Some of us aren’t interested in twee little dramas that depict the world in crude, mindless, black and white terms.”
How edgy! I’m glad the rape of women allows you a chance to escape from the boredom of shows that, I don’t know, follow the boring old black and white routine of “rape is wrong.” This is exactly what is wrong with this show — too much pseudo-intellectualism attempting to cover up the very banal and everyday misogny of its premise.
Of course it’s wrong. She didn’t say it wasn’t and neither does the show. They very clearly state it’s monstrous, degrading and illegal. But it’s a complete strawman arguement to dismiss the premise as misogynistic when the subject matter itself explores its abusivness to the individuals and the struggle to escape from it. If I wanted to watch everyday misogny; I`ll watch L&O:SVU.
Tom – I was thinking that Dollhouse finish out, (or be pulled or Glee repeats) by November. I think Til Death and Brothers will remain on fridays at 8 until Brothers finishes its 13 episodes. Then sundays in the spring Til Death will air out its remaining eps at 7:00. This leaves 8:00 and 9:00 fridays free for FOX to fill with something else. Death has 22 episodes for this season so FOX may as well burn em off instead of airing animation repeats. I really hope Dollhouse airs at least 7 episodes into November 13, but I guess thats wishful thinking
By March sundays could look like this
7:00 Til Death
7:30 American Dad
8:00 The Simpsons
8:30 Sons of Tucson
9:00 Family Guy
9:30 American Dad
With both 8 and 9 free on fridays, FOX can fill that timeslot with some combination of Kitchen Nightmares, Past Life, or Lie to Me. I think FOX will reserve the post Idol slot on tuesdays for a new Hell’s Kitchen season.
8:00 Kitchen Nightmares/Human Target (when Glee returns)
9:00 Lie to Me/Past Life
@Dorothy – perhaps you should accept that the central concepts of the show are beyond you, rather than resorting to nasty personal attacks that don’t even make any sense, whether the attacks on me, or the attacks on Dollhouse itself?
If you prefer the simplistic good vs evil of, say, NCIS, well, that’s why they make NCIS. Go watch that instead.
Squiggleslash: Sometimes it surprises me how sociopathic characters like Tony Soprano & Dexter seem to be socially more acceptable than a pre-vulernable, now-schizophenic character.
I also wonder how many people would consider Victor a rape survivour as compared to the woman characters.
i love Fox but they are stupid. They never promote Dollhouse. What they should do is they should air promos for Dollhouse during one of their popular shows (such as Glee, House, So you think you can Dance) that way it can have a chance to attract more viewers. Putting in a 9pm Friday timeslot was a bad idea to begin with, most people go out then. Dollhouse is a good show, too bad Fox doesn’t promote it well. They should have paired it up with other sci-fi shows not a comedy show as a lead-in. Oh well, hopefully we get to see the season finished off before it gets canceled.
buffywresting – amen.
I’m a tad baffled by the reactions to the show. I can understand not liking it. I can, however wrong it may be, understand the “My favorite show got canceled and Dollhouse didn’t and that’s unfair and Dollhouse should go so…” mentality. But the “It shows people doing evil things, therefore it is evil too” thing, I just… I can’t get my head around that.
I’m not saying that people are wrong to find the subject matter queasy. After all, I think that’s exactly what Whedon wants. There’s a phrase I heard Terry Gilliam use once, “Cinematic rape”. He was discussing a scene in Brazil where a prisoner tries to escape from his guards, runs down a corridor, and bumps into the elevator, bouncing around like a ball in a pinball machine (with the elevator bell making suitable sound effects.) Just prior to this, we’ve seen what happens to prisoners in this complex (they’re tortured.) And so the reaction of the audience is to be watching this, start to laugh at the pinball act, and then suddenly realize that it isn’t funny at all and they’ve been made to laugh at something evil.
Whedon’s doing that, but Whedon isn’t just making viewers uncomfortable, he’s also raising some extremely serious and interesting issues at the same time.
So I don’t blame people for feeling uncomfortable watching it and not wanting to watch any more. But those that go beyond “feeling queasy”, who declare the show endorses evil are going beyond that.
Squiggleslash: I agree that the sweeping “Endorsement of Evil” lable is completely misdirected at the show, at Whdeon and the people watching it. Say it’s boring, say it’s trite & badly acted but the themes are there: identity, self-preservation & discovery. And for some that say the show isn’t spelling these themes out clearly enough – compared to Buffy, Angel & Firefly scripts, IMO the writers are pratically holding your hand on the subtext without it becoming a run-of-the-mill procedural.
Take a gander at Mo Ryan’s write-up http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/10/dollhouse-joss-whedon-eliza-dushku.html#more
I have a strong feeling Dollhouse will be pulled after its October 9th airing. You could understand a network renewing a really good rated midseason show and the series doing badly, you could understand a series doing OK midseason and it doing badly in its second year. But if a series is doing horrible in its first season and it gets renewed, what the hell do you expect from it???? To magically improve.
Dan: You are probably right. It wouldn’t be unexpected if that happened. I myself have “predicted” – I use that term *very* loosely when it comes to Dollhouse – that it wouldn’t get the back nine at all. I am playing at “wait & see” approach as of right now because of:
- the xposure of Eliza doing a P/R tour (seriously, HALF of the interviewers didn’t even know that Dollhouse had premiered for a second season)
- the crtics getting onboard with the fan appreciation.
- the status of the broadcasting/DVD international deal for the second season. FOX Studio could very well shoot all the 13 eps of Season 2 even if the FOX Network decides not to broadcast them. Why? Because the show is able to sell overseas to cover the cost.
squiggleslash says:
“I’m a tad baffled by the reactions to the show. I can understand not liking it.”
Are you sure about that?
squiggleslash says:
October 8, 2009 at 4:11 pm
“@Dorothy – perhaps you should accept that the central concepts of the show are beyond you”
I don’t care for the show. And I’ll certainly admit that I regret the 11 or so hours I spent giving it a chance. However, I have no problem just turning off the television. It’s the incessant claims that the show is “too deep” or “too dark” or “requires too much thought” (such as yours immediately above) that occasion my ire, especially given that the proponents of this position generally come off as having never given a thought to the well-worn philosophical chestnuts that sometimes manage to slop over the gunwales of what is at its core a turgid character drama.
If Dollhouse happens to cause one to think about epistemology or ethics or “metaphysics” or the possibility of transferring “consciousness” into a tree stump, that’s super. There’s still no reason to hold up the blindingly obvious and dash around chattering like Sue Lyon in “Night of the Iguana.”
Boris: I have to say that “come off as having never given a thought to the well-worn philosophical chestnuts that sometimes manage to slop over the gunwales of what is at its core a turgid character drama.” makes me want to read whatever you write forever. That is not sarcasm; it’s just brillant & unexpected to read in a comment section.
And I do agree that people will come off as “elitist” when discussing thier favorite show: They’ve seen more of it, they’ve discussed it at length & they are more deeply involved than a casual viewer. It doesn’t excuse them – and myself – but it’s a drawback of any persistant fandom.
I even made that same comment at whedonesque[dot]com towards the fan site http://www.whyiwatch.com – which I felt might have tried to counter the “titz & ‘polsions” of promotion by FOX Broadcasting too far into the opposite direction. “The Smartest TV You’re Not Watching” can easily be construde as “You’re a Dummy for Not Watching” because of the wording.
@Boris – I’m going to put you up there with Dorothy. Unless you’d like to make an effort to understand the words I wrote first before writing a response to me critical of what I’ve written.
@buffywrestling – this isn’t about “elitism”, it’s largely about interests with the exception of a minority who insist on claiming things about Dollhouse, and viewers of Dollhouse, that are manifestly false. But if I’m going to be attacked by someone with a response that shows neither comprehension of my own words, or comprehension of Dollhouse, that’s something I’m obviously going to point out. What’s the alternative?
Calling someone on making a bizarre, unsubstantiated, and clearly wrong claim about something isn’t unwarranted. If I claimed Leverage was clearly a show that cast insurance companies in a favorable light, portraying their refusal to pay out as somehow legitimate and fair, I’d expect people to point out I’m wrong in that. If I subsequently claimed that Leverage fans have no sympathy with cancer victims and want all cancer victims to die, well, I’d expect a robust response. I certainly wouldn’t expect a group of toadie whiners to follow up complaining that those criticizing me were claiming Leverage was “too deep” or “too funny”.
Dorothy’s response to me was both wrong and grossly insulting. It’s not elitist to point that out. Dorothy thinks Dollhouse glorifies rape and people who like it like it for that. Boris thinks I’m interested in philosophical issues concerning mind transference. I’ve never written or said anything of the sort. They’re wrong. Sorry if that comes across as elitist.
@buffywrestling (earlier post) – agreed. I thought was a great article, as it got to the heart of what’s good in the show.
Sheila:
>
i love Fox but they are stupid. They never promote Dollhouse. What they should do is they should air promos for Dollhouse during one of their popular shows (such as Glee, House, So you think you can Dance) that way it can have a chance to attract more viewers. <
Wrong. Fox typically runs promos the nights before a show, and Dollhouse is no different, with promos running during Bones & Fringe last night. A Dollhouse promo also ran during "Lie To Me".
Fox gave Dollhouse a home when the ratings said otherwise. No matter what, the fans got episodes out of fox no other network would have provided. Hard to feel bad about that. I do feel bad the fans didn't show up..
“If you prefer the simplistic good vs evil of, say, NCIS, well, that’s why they make NCIS. Go watch that instead.”
Well that’s just arrogant.
Fr all most of the cast are brilliant (Eliza, Harry, Amy, and Olivia are wonderful), I get kinda tired of being told by the fanbase (rather than yourself), how this program is for the intelligent and the reason its failing because of the general TV audience’s intelligence.
Poppycock.
It’s stuff like Instincts. Why would a father not hire a nanny rather than an Active? Wouldn’t his family and his in-laws notice this woman carrying his son around pretending to be his mother? Wouldn’t Adele object to her star Active being tied up in a long-term engagement? Etc, etc.
In fact, it’s the intelligent, those who can think for themselves who would be thrown out, not by the cast, but the material they’re given to use.
The writing staff seem to be in a hurry to make their all so important points and forget about suspension of disbelief along the way.
Mutant Enemy’s urges to emply everyone in their clique doesn’t help either. While Alexis is a supreme addition to any cast, several of the guest stars (Glau especially) are simply awful.
Maybe you’re the one who’s a little simple.
Boris, the problem is that regardless of Whedon’s intentions, a lot of people were still defending Adelle and Topher after it was revealed Sierra didn’t consent to becoming a Doll. Just check the message boards.
Bottom line, Dollhouse is a show I love, but I am the first to admit it has had problems, both some problems inherent in the difficult and adult concept of the show and problems stemming from how FOX has screwed it over as to timeslot, leadin shows, and interference during the initial episodes last season when it lost it’s chance at a decent audience. First impressions are important and Dollhouse failed on that count totally due to FOX demanding stand-a-lone episodes that failed to engage the viewer. Dollhouse is the only network show I currently watch religiously and if it goes, I will only turn on my tv to watch a dvd. They need to focus totally on the internal Dollhouse conflicts, the ethical issues the people inside have and the struggles to undermine the Dollhouse or keep what it does hidden from public view. Sadly, right now, I think the most we can hope for is that they can get all 13 ordered episodes made so they can be on the season two dvd for those of us who will order it. And please, Fox,kill those stinking leadin shows before you kill a show with promise like Dollhouse. Til’Death and Brothers are idiotic choices for anything but a trash dumpster.
Hey Michael,
everybody likes to think of themselves as the hero all of the time… even the villains.
If you think about it, many people work for giant corporations who do evil things in real life… How is that different from the situation with Adelle and Topher? Dollhouse is exploring the ideas that good people can have moral blindspots and do immoral things(for example… they may get a job working for a company who profit from slave labour)… does this make them evil, or just human?
The idea that any person is good all of the time is just plainly false… many of television’s “hero’ characters are just plainly unrealistic in my eyes… everybody (or almost everybody) does horrible things sometimes… I love that dollhouse isn’t taking the easy way out.
Sorry, but you can’t compare the janitor who works for the company that profits from slave labor with the guy who’s actually forcing said slaves to work.
Dollhouse is amazing serial !My fav show:) I thisnk Joss is a genius and the idea of the serial is awesome (human soul)Foz must KEEP this show if it’s a creative television !
FOX must KEEP Dollhouse this show if it’s a creative television !
squiggleslash says:
“@Boris – I’m going to put you up there with Dorothy. Unless you’d like to make an effort to understand the words I wrote first before writing a response to me critical of what I’ve written.”
The measure of “effort” being some sort of agreement? The only novel assertion that you seem to have made is that “Dollhouse is a dramatical version of the Milgram or Stanford Prison experiments.” Unfortunately, you didn’t bother to defend the coherence of this thesis or even suggest why it would be interesting were it correct.
You further mischaracterize my position with the claim that “Boris thinks I’m interested in philosophical issues concerning mind transference.” If you had “made an effort to understand the words I wrote,” you might have picked up on the fact that the basically animistic notion of “mind transference”–the central conceit of the program–was the last (and certainly least) of the philosophical hypotheses I advanced.
Yet you persist with the strange “toadie whiners” gambit, somehow proceeding to the notion that you’re perhaps being perceived as “elitist” (something I strongly doubt is the case). But you apparently are down with Maureen Ryan’s write-up. So, Dollhouse “grapple[s] with uncomfortable questions about power, exploitation, hypocrisy, selfishness and the lies people tell themselves so they can feel better about taking advantage of others”? This is the big deal?
What are the “uncomfortable” questions? Whether exploitation, hypocrisy, selfishness, and self-deception are problematic? These seem like pretty simple questions to me. In any event, what does Dollhouse have to offer on the subject? Is it going to guide the poor sods to whom none of this has ever occurred to some sort of understanding, assuming they white-knuckle it out to the end?
I do appreciate the decree that you’re “going to put [me] up there with Dorothy,” though, even I have a sense that the “Attic” reference (oo-ee-oo) may have been accidental.
^”even *if* I have a sense”
Yeah and that Crappy Terminator show got 2 seasons.
there are so many shows on Thursday and Friday night that I watch I usally end up watching them on Saturday and Sunday. From me a Tuesday night should would be so much better.
I don’t know about the rest of you but I would trade doll house for new Firefly shows.
Dollhouse sucks, and I can’t believe there is a 2nd season. Replace it with FireFly!!!
Wow there are a lot of haters on this forum! There are dozens of shows on tv that I really really despise, but you know what? I don’t watch them and really couldn’t care less if they get cancelled or not. (If you want to waste your time with idiot box tv, more power to you, I suppose) Dollhouse is the smartest and deepest show on TV and it is acted and shot wonderfully! The fact that it’s ratings are do low is a huge statement to the intellegence of the typical American viewer. It is a very sad state indeed!
This is my favorite serial!!!!!!!!