Joss Whedon posted on Whedonesque.com about directing an episode of Glee:
Hey kids and parents of kids and super-old, like ancestor-old-but-not-dead-yet-type people, just poking my oversized head in to say that the rumors are true… unless something very odd happens in the next few months, I will have the privilege of shooting an episode of GLEE. Why GLEE? Because I love cops, serial killers and gritty urban drama (I haven’t seen the show yet). Why me? Because they’re struggling and can’t afford real directors. And to head off a few queries:
No, this doesn’t mean Dollhouse definitely won’t get a back nine. Our numbers mean that! But I kid. Okay, we’re not exactly saving all the good stuff for 14-22, but nobody’s closed the door. If D’House suddenly busts wide, huzzah, we’ll still bring it, and I’ll still go and direct an episode of Glee, because of my love of cops. These realities can co-exist. And possibly cross over, at least in fiction that I have wri – read. About.
With so many producers who are preening schmoes out there, Whedon is downright refreshing.
I admit, as a result, despite the numbers, I am rooting for eleventy billion episodes of Dollhouse. Or 17 seasons. Whichever comes first.
So basically Dollhouse is done, and FOX is just burning off all of the episodes and its unofficially axed a la last years Pushing Daisies, Eli Stone, Dirty Sexy Money.
I really think that Dollhouse is going to be cancelled, by the sounds of it from Fox and even Joss, theres no point in doing the show with numbers the CW has surpassed lol.
The first season of Dollhouse wasnt THAT bad, it got better and i thought episode 13 was reallly good, that bumped the show right up for me from a nothing to watch, might as well – to a “wow cant wait for the next ep”.
Sadly, season 2 so far has been POOR, nothing was followed up on that last “special” episode, if only they carried on with that or atleast started to build toward it quickly. Instead we get lots and lots of…fillers.
Come on, you dont do fillers when your show has just been given a second chance (amazingly!) and had the chance to prove itself.
So, goodbye Dollhouse. If only TSCC was still on
im sure FOX would be more pleased with its numbers than Dollhouse. (Since TSCC only EVER dipped below 2 million once (or twice), Dollhouse doesnt seem to be going over 3 million now.)
Whedon’s always been very funny. Maybe instead of trying to do his own show, he could follow in his dad and granddad’s footsteps and get a job writing a half hour comedy.
sorry i meant TSCC only dipped below 3 million once or twice, not 2 million lol.
Although hasnt Dollhouse been close to dipping below 2 million even ? :O
Whedon should look at Sanctuary for inspiration. That show finished off season one with a blockbuster two parter, and THEN came back with an even better blockbuster 2-parter to start season two.
And they’re willing to take risks. They killed off one of the four main leads of the show (AND another character just introduced in the last two episodes of season one) in episode two last week! Surprised the hell out of me! Left the fans in shock! And the one character they seemed to be preparing the fans to see die came back at the last moment.
They’re also changing the character of Magnus to be more dark like they did in the Webisodes.
This is what Dollhouse should have done to open season two: push the envelope. Failing to do that is one reason TSCC failed in season two and the same goes for Dollhouse. I don’t what it is about some producers who just don’t seem to get it that bigger and better is bigger and better. After a season one they just seem to be unable to get in the groove for season two, like they’re tapped out on ideas or just too tired.
This is a show that pushes the envelope in every way: the green screen sets, the RED camera cinematography, the CGI, the characters (”Jack the Ripper” is a good guy?!), the fresh concepts – and it’s all done on a bare budget as the show has no studio backing it. This is a show that shows what could be done given the right people working on it.
“sorry i meant TSCC only dipped below 3 million once or twice, not 2 million lol.”
One cost A LOT more and the other has a very low budget. And, FOX is producing Dollhouse. I think, Warner Brothers were producing TSCC.
I loved TSCC, but that trying to compare these two doesn’t work.
@Richard, it seems to me that the network audiences that are supposed to watch Dollhouse mostly criticized exactly those instances where the “envelope was pushed”. It’s almost not worth it going for the show’s full potential with the imperative to satisfy the likes of those who coined the term “Whorehouse” etc. Sanctuary is a niche show with virtual unknowns, and it wouldn’t have lasted three weeks as a network show.
I thought Dollhouse was going to be about an agency that sent the Dolls out on Missions, like spies. Kinda like Alias, and they get downloaded with the info.
Anyway, I’ve tried to watch it, but it just seems like they are running a fancy Escort service. I’ll probably get blasted by it’s Fans, but that’s just my take on it.
Joss comes off like good people. It’s always nice when the creators one likes don’t seem like unimaginable jackasses.
TSCC was always below Dollhouse last season. It was dropping viewers every week. I was a fan of the show, but it wasn’t between DH and TSCC… regardless TSCC was canceled. It’s not like FOX had to pick one…
There’s no reason to believe if it had been renewed it would be doing any better than Dollhouse at this point. It was an off network production company and it had a mega budget. FOX canceled it because it was no longer profitable. DH and TSCC were never in competition with each other. I’m surprised so many people still think this…
At no point did an executive at FOX say “Which one do we pick?” It was “Okay, TSCC is done. What about this other show, DH? We gonna axe that too?” “Nope, it’s getting another shot at a reduced budget…”
re: Sparkle’s post – that’s what I’m talking about.
Another “Alias” clone is the very LAST thing I’d want anyone to do with the premise and technology, and no matter how much you try, people always see “fancy escort service”. *sigh*
The guy’s definitely got a sense of humor about the situation, both with Dollhouse and the whole industry.
I can understand better now why people want to be in business with Joss Whedon. Given the option of working with a jerk, I’d rather work with a nice guy. That said, even Whedon knows there won’t be anything past the 13th episode.
@ Dan,
I may be wrong, but I think that you try to find too many parallels with DSM, PD & ES.
Budo: Whether Sanctuary is a niche show is irrelevant to how they are working the show for its audience. Whedon could learn from that.
I don’t see any evidence that Dollhouse has indeed “pushed the envelope” except in terms of the overall concept. The show had identifiable problems in season one which as of yet have not been addressed adequately in season two. To “push the envelope” for Dollhouse would mean correcting its flawed concept and then accelerating the parts that are working.
The problem with people identifying Dollhouse as “Whorehouse” is precisely because Whedon never decided whether the show was about one Dollhouse doing a simple commercial endeavor or a network of Dollhouses as part of a “grand conspiracy”. In other words, the concept wasn’t really fleshed out. Last I heard, it was Fox that pushed Whedon for the latter treatment, indicating they had more imagination for the concept than Whedon did.
Sanctuary, by contrast, seems to have a pretty clear notion of what the show is about, who the characters are, what their back stories are, and where the central conflict is and therefore what the overall and sub story arcs need to be about. Dollhouse seems to lack all of that.
Notice how the opening credits emphasize Eliza Dushku in various engagement roles entirely. What’s the point of that? That’s the least interesting part of the show concept. The more they get away from all these “engagements” that merely explore facets of the basic technology concept, the faster the show might appeal to more people. It needs to be much more serial, emphasize the conflict between the Dollhouse controllers and the rest of society, and have some logical progression to some logical conflict resolution.
And it needs to stop trying to use Echo – as an Active – as the main POV character because it just doesn’t work for anybody. She needs to go on the run from the Dollhouse and work with Ballard to bring it down from the outside. That would enable Dushku to have a consistent personality from week to week, and a goal audiences could relate to. As it stands, nobody on the show seems to have a goal, including the Dollhouse itself and the Rossum Corporation, other than making a buck – and we don’t even know what is even being charged for these engagements.
There’s too much “whiz-bang” over the technology and nothing else. It’s all just too fuzzy. Sanctuary is the exact opposite.
That article was too funny!
AO – I do actually with those 3 dramas from last year. I just use them as an example of a series getting a second shot, but being quietly let go and have their episodes burned off, like Dollhouse. Networks usually just pull series but last year ABC surprised me by keeping the trio atleast until December and then actually airing the remaining episodes. With Dollhouse I always knew that FOX would air all episodes because despite incredibly awful ratings, they knew what they were getting themselves into. Dollhouse isnt some first year fall series doing badly, its a show that had a chance, got low ratings and was renewed anyway.
And the whole TSCC thing, was a 100% cancellation. There was never a keep this or dump that (like CBS’s Without a Trace/Cold Case decision) Terminator did OK its first year, started crappy during its second year, got a full season anyway and still did worse. Dollhouse somehow got a second chance (which was more of a risk) and now FOX will learn from their mistake. Other than friday, FOX is having a great fall. Glee is promising, The Cleveland Show took off, SYTYCD is doing well for its first time airing in the fall, and the drama veterans House and Bones are helping out Lie to Me and Fringe respectively.
Joss should try writing comedy
I’m not a fan of Dollhouse while I loved Buffy and Angel but at least all the 13 episodes will be produced and from the looks of it the 13th episode will have a closure
The show is really lucky to last that long given the circumstance.
forg – Any other series would be dropped with 3 or 4 million, but FOX knew what they were getting into and rather than admitting the renewal was a mistake, they would rather burn the series off for the fans.
Dan – plus they could afford to have the low rated Friday night with their successful schedule all throughout the week.
Richard: my main point was that with a network show, what you’re complaining about is out of the creator’s and writers’ hands. The conspiracy angle was forced upon them, Dushku is a necessary evil because it’s her show, not Whedon’s etc. I wish he could get a cable show one of these days, with no network pressure and creative freedom, at least on SyFy… you’d see some serious envelope pushing.
Forg, everything I’ve seen from Whedon was always infused with humor. Firefly was hilarious.
Budo, I’m really curious what would be the product if he writes a full pledge comedy. Dr. Horrible is the closest thing and I liked it
“The conspiracy angle was forced upon them”
Fox did indeed force the conspiracy angle upon Whedon, but I also think the conspiracy angle is one of the few saving graces of the show (it gave us Epitaph One for example.) The fact that Whedon’s original plan was that the Dollhouses are brainwashing and enslaving and raping people to fund “beneficial research” and that therefore we should sort of give them the benefit of the doubt shows that he simply hadn’t thought the concept through sufficiently to anticipate viewer’s objections to and confusion about the concept–and also, I suppose, that Whedon has some ideas about individuality and heroism and the soul that are simply distasteful to lots of people. As for Eliza, I don’t think she is a weakness, I think the role that was crafted for her is a weakness. The protagonist of the show isn’t exactly a functioning person with an actual personality and that’s simply an error in judgment on Whedon’s part. Of course people are having a hard time warming up to her. If Eliza had been assigned the Ballard role instead and the show had been reworked to focus on her effort to bring down the Dollhouse rather than on the Dollhouse itself I think people would love her.
This is what happens when you come up with a television show on the back of a napkin. They never really did find their way with this concept or these characters and the most successful thing they’ve done with it all so far had to be set ten years into the future with a new cast to overcome the problems inherent in the concept and the characters.
Richard as Budo said the network decided to change the original fleshed out vision. I went to a Q & A with Joss Whedon and he talked quite a bit about this. He said he had a very specific vision. He talked about never being more prepared, having everything written out when he went to the meeting. Fox approved it, then when it was time to actually film they pulled the rug out from under him and told him, no we changed our mind and want a shoot em up episode of the week not what you pitched and we approved. He admitted that they never recovered from that because the pulled the core of the show out and he has been trying to come up with stories week to week without the original idea he had in mind. I am not trying to say Fox is entirely to blame that Dollhouse isn’t up to Whedon’s previous masterpieces but they certainly are a huge contributing factor. He also did describe his own show as a “wee bit prostitutey”. The man has a great sense of humor and is never afraid to poke fun of himself.
As for Eliza, well it was her deal with Fox. The show came about over lunch between her and Joss. She is not just the lead but one of the producers. I don’t think she would go for having her role reduced even if it would be in the best interest of the show since she is the weakest of the talent involved.
I agree, I always thought Eliza should’ve played the Ballard part and Miracle’s character should’ve been her sister she was searching for, or something like that.
“The fact that Whedon’s original plan was that the Dollhouses are brainwashing and enslaving and raping people to fund “beneficial research” and that therefore we should sort of give them the benefit of the doubt shows that he simply hadn’t thought the concept through sufficiently to anticipate viewer’s objections to and confusion about the concept.”
We don’t know what the original idea was- it might have been ALL of the Active were volunteers who agreed in part because they knew the profits from the Dollhouse were funding beneficial research. It looks like Joss intended Topher and Adelle to be morally grey, then changed his mind and made them unrepentant rapists.
I believe just on one watches TV on Friday nights anymore. I watched Ugly Betty and found it wonderful!
Can’t help but wonder what Dollhouse could do on another night.
I think if Joss can popularize the name D’House as the title of his show, he might fool Fox into giving him a Monday time slot and a multi-year renewal.
I’m just confused about one piece or terminology: What’s the difference between “burning off” the episodes, and airing them as scheduled in the fall and thru the sweeps?
@Simon – generally “burning off” means the net is airing the shows to fulfill their commitment but has no interest in the success of the series and won’t put resources into promotion drawing an audience. Critical darlings that don’t have an audience other than the fan/media echo chamber get ‘burned off’ rather than cancelled because the negative publicity isn’t worth aggravation of defending the decision.
I’m just confused about one piece of terminology: What does “pushing the envelope” mean?
Doesn’t providing morally ambiguous main characters, centering on an organization that is effectively the bad guy, and challenging people to come to their own conclusions about the actions of the characters rather than having wrapping the moral issues into a nice, neat bow tend to challenge the status quo?
You can like it or not — indeed, it can be “successful” or a “failure” — but Whedon has certainly gotten further in challenging norms in this show than he has even with a show like Firefly.
In any event, Whedon used to have quite a bit of a reputation for killing off characters — even joking about it in his press release. Poor, Principal Figgins. Maybe he is trying something new — pushing his own envelope? (Arguably, the larger complaint against him is never having a functional relationship — just try and make Sierra and Victor work, I dare ya!)
@Katie – Thanks. That IS a subtle difference. I suppose episodes are “burned off” for any show – e.g. DOLLHOUSE, TRAUMA, MERCY – where it’s pretty much known there’ll be no renewal beyond the current season’s batch that’s being produced.
“And they’re willing to take risks. They killed off one of the four main leads of the show (AND another character just introduced in the last two episodes of season one) in episode two last week! Surprised the hell out of me! Left the fans in shock!”
Right…because Joss Whedon has never shocked his devoted fans by killing off a beloved character in incredibly unexpected fashion.
Hmm.
I’m with Chaos Amoeba. Just finished watching the first season on blu-ray. It’s a mess, but I dunno, I don’t see it as a _bad_ thing. It’s an interesting mess. It’s a fun mess. Some of it was bad, but eh. Some of most shows are bad. All the ideas above seem to be ways to turn it into a show about the heroes taking down the bad guys, which doesn’t seem like it would be an improvement. There’s enough of those around already. Dollhouse wouldn’t make a very interesting spin on the concept, since the bad guys are the interesting bit. clearly we’re in a minority and should enjoy it while it lasts, though. sigh.
Perhaps we can fuse some of the above ideas and have The Adele and Topher Comedy Hour, written by Joss Whedon?
LOL.
Hope FOX pulls and ABC and orders a back-nine order for Dollhouse.
LOL is right, why would ABC order dollhouse episodes? Only fox knows why that show is still on the air.