Under the terms being negotiated, TNT will buy the seven episodes that ran last spring as well as the six new episodes that Warner Bros. and John Wells Productions made for NBC. The show is not going back into production because TNT will decide whether to order additional episodes of “Southland” after it sees how the drama performs. The show isn’t expected to make its cable debut until after the new year, and the new episodes might not run until late February or early March.
via Los Angeles Times.
That’s pretty much what I expected the deal to be. TNT salvages the episodes already produced and waits to see the ratings until ordering more. I wouldn’t bet on that happening, but the deal means the chance is no longer absolutely zero.
Southland could be a surprise, that show is SO-TNT. i hope it works
I really think we could see more episodes of Southland after that, but we have to wait
that’s *exactly* what Nellie Andreeva wrote over a week ago. I go to Nellie not Nikki for my Southland scoop
Joseph, if you’re a caring person, you should prepare not to see them. TNT might not even know if it wants more episodes for six months. Do you expect people who work on the show to turn down other jobs in the meanwhile?
Robert, considering it’s (now) a cable show, I’m not sure that’s enough reason to assume it won’t be seen again. Most cable shows are produced well before they are aired, and yet they manage to keep most of their cast members. I would assume TNT will have the cast contracted at least through when the show airs. Even if some of the cast does other pilots or whatnot, they can still be back if the show gets another season.
Julia, why would you assume after production has been shut down that TNT would have the cast contracted at least through whenever the show airs? I assume the contracts have already been completely been nullified with the shutdown of production with no current plans for future production. Plus, now that it’s on cable, it seems like those contracts would need to be completely renegotiated anyway.
That said, if the scheduling works out as the article suggests (with the six episodes from season two set to air in February or March) it’s really NOT that far away. But I don’t think there’s any reason to believe its going to perform well on TNT in February or March. If it got a 1.9 on NBC in May…
Oh, I agree that it’s not likely to do well on TNT, but I don’t think the fact that it will be a while before there’s a decision is enough of a reason to assume it’s dead for good.
I may be wrong about the contracts, but I can’t imagine that TNT wouldn’t at least try to get everyone on a contract. Besides, the contracts are with the studio. While NBC may have shut down the production, WB obviously didn’t think it was dead, so I would think they would keep everyone contracted.
Julia, I think you’re wrong about the contracts. I can imagine that TNT wouldn’t try to get people under contract, and I’d be surprised if they did. What I heard in the case of Southland, which could definitely be wrong was that the existing contracts w/WB expired with the shutdown of production. I can’t imagine that Warner Bros would want to keep people under contract for months — which would require paying something — with no certainty of future production.
Okay, so the cast filmed these six episodes in what, July? And TNT will air the 13 episodes sometime between February and May? The show is not going to be a ratings winner, that’s a known fact, but we don’t know what TNT’s magic number is for renewal. Let’s just say, hypothetically of course, they decide to order new episodes. That would put filming at around Fall/Winter 2010?
There won’t be any new episodes. The cast is not going to wait over a year to get another paycheck.
Robert, I seriously doubt that NBC’s decision to shut down production nullified WB’s contracts with the stars. Most especially since Wells and WB were shopping the show a day later. Also, contracts run for a certain amount of time; WB wouldn’t have to pay the stars anything more until the contract runs out. At that point, there’s a provision for an extension or agents may renegotiate, but given that WB thought it was getting 13 episodes on NBC, I’m betting those contracts have a while before they’re done.
Actually, Kevin, filming on episode six of the second season just wrapped Friday, October 16.
TNT should have a good idea by week 4 or 5 if the show deserves a pickup. If airing starts, say, the second week of January, a decision could be made by the end of February. (Right around pilot season, when the actors could book new projects in second position to SOUTHLAND). With an episode order by March, shooting could start as early as May.
Not saying that any of this is *likely* just that it’s possible.
Did NBC’s cancellation of “Medium” nullify the contracts?
I was just taking a shot in the dark Bill, I clearly don’t know how they schedule when to film…lol.
But yeah, either way more new episodes is not likely.
Cammy, what I heard is that the contracts expired, again, that could be wrong.
The notion that contracts run a certain amount of time is correct. The notion that they exist without HAVING TO PAY PEOPLE is nonsense.
If your’re suggesting that the contracts were front-loaded in such a way that they don’t have to pay anything additional because they’ve already paid it, that could be the case, though it is definitely not what I heard.
TV Bill, I don’t think they will have a good idea until week 9 or 10 by which time 2 or 3 of the never before seen episodes will have aired.
Robert, even without contracts, I think it would be easy enough to make a decision in time to keep all the actors. It probably depends on how much the actors are committed to the series, but they can easily sign on to pilots with the understanding that if Southland is renewed, they will be doing that instead. As long as a decision to renew is made by May, I think they can keep everyone.
Maybe I’m wrong about this, but I think the actors would probably be smart to do that, since if Southland would be in its second season on a cable network, and shows don’t get pulled mid-run on cable. If they stuck with a new series on broadcast, they could be in the same position they are right now, with production stopped after six episodes.
I’m not even sure why I’m arguing this. I never watched the show and really don’t care what happens to it.
I think you’re right about the contracts, Robert. I imagine NBC’s cancellation of the series nullified all existing contracts (’force majeure’ maybe?).
I’m not sure TNT necessarily needs to wait until any of the new episodes air til they make a decision. Although, for them, that’s probably the best case scenario.
But even if wanted to see how all of them did, they could probably be back in production by June.
But yeah, it’s a long shot we’ll ever see any new ones produced. Unless it’s a big hit on TNT.
Just happy there will be a commitment to air the eps already made of Southland. Southland is so much better then Dark Blue, hope it can perform better.
NBC’s cancellation of Southland didn’t nullify the actors contracts with Warner Bros. (that’s the key point, btw). Immediately after learning of NBC’s decision, Warner Bros. began shopping the show around and less than a month later has secured a deal with TNT (its corporate sibling in case anyone forgot). While they may not produce new episodes until assessing ratings potential/future revenue of the show, the actors are legally required to return to SOUTHLAND the minute production resumes unless there is a stipulation in the actors’ contracts that states otherwise. This is similar to The CW’s cancellation of THE GAME earlier this year.
Unlike that show, the contracts for the SOUTHLAND cast didn’t lapse long enough where there was no network agreeing to air the series.
As far as the show being on cable, there is a possibility the contract will be re-negotiated, but it’s likely to be re-negotiated down due to assumed ratings constraints on cable vs broadcast (even though we know otherwise).
All in all, the actors are free to get work while the show is not in production, but you better believe they’ll be back on set when TNT/Warner Bros. makes the call even if they are filming for a pilot for CBS or ABC (you know those actors will never work on an NBC show again).
Errol, very interesting info on the contracts, but I wonder about ” (you know those actors will never work on an NBC show again).”
Do actors really shun a network after it cancels one of their shows?
Errol, they were shopping the show around the next week because the show was canceled. There is no network agreement to air any additional episodes of the series.
At this point, whether anyone is under contract seems pretty irrelevant. TNT is not so committed to the show that it was willing to start production back up. The odds of even one additional episode of SOUTHLAND ever being made are so close to zero that I’d definitely take the “under” bet if the the over/under is ONE additional episode!
In the meanwhile, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if TNT slips the show all the way until summer, even further protracting its fate at least as far as fans are concerned!
Bill, generally talent doesn’t care if a show they work on gets pulled by the network (except financially) as long as there is some justification behind it. However, when NBC cancelled SOUTHLAND without even airing the new episodes, it changed things. Of course, this is more opinion than fact, however. Though before an actor whose show was cancelled by said network commits to a new project with them involved, they tend to question how likely will said network commit to the project considering their past experiences, especially when you consider the same management is in place. Again, finances come in to play so if the money is right that person my not give a flying hoot.
Robert, the show was cancelled by NBC, yes. But the actors ultimately work for Warner Bros., which cuts the checks to them. If Warner Bros. decided (which I’m 99.99% sure they did) to extend the contracts until they found a new commitment, despite TNT’s reported agreement not including newly produced episodes at this time, they will remain Warner Bros. employees until WB says otherwise. When The CW cancelled THE GAME in May, CBS Productions had until June 30 to find a new home or else the actors would be free to move on. What happened there? Their contracts lapsed and despite the reported renewal of the show by BET, we can’t say for sure any of the cast will return. The ABC pilot LITTLE PIGGY starring Brandy received a cast extension shortly after ABC announced their 2009-2010 lineup, which kept them under contract with that production until end of July/early August, I believe. Another example is MEDIUM. Who produces that show? CBS Productions. From my understanding, Patricia Arquette’s contract stated she was required to be paid for 22 episodes per season even if NBC didn’t order that many episodes each season. When NBC cancelled the show, all that happened was a change in networks and a commitment to air 22 episodes. Nothing changed as far as contracts were concerned. Though CBS will now pay Patricia for her full contract and have a loss due to not airing the actresses required 22 episodes.
correction to last sentence: *and not have a loss due to not airing the actresses required 22 episodes.
But the actors ultimately work for Warner Bros., which cuts the checks to them. If Warner Bros. decided (which I’m 99.99% sure they did) to extend the contracts until they found a new commitment, despite TNT’s reported agreement not including newly produced episodes at this time, they will remain Warner Bros. employees until WB says otherwise.
Errol, the question is whether WB would want to *continue* cutting checks if there were no commitment for future episodes. If the existing contract lapsed in November or December, I could see keeping them under contract in the hope of future episodes, but it looks like it will be at least ~5 months before TNT will decide on future episodes.
Because of CBS’ syndication agreement for Medium, I view that situation very differently than Southland’s. CBS had the luxury of playing a little loose with Medium’s financing (when it was airing on NBC), Warner Brothers doesn’t have such luxuries with Southland unless I am really missing something.
I see what you are saying and understand you better now. Though, again Warner Bros. is a corporate sibling of TNT just as CBS Productions is of CBS
Maybe that’s what you’re missing. Which, btw, begs the question, did people seriously think TNT was considering SOUTHLAND pickup because they felt sorry for the cast/crew and fans? Ha! That’s rich!
I totally get why TNT would be extremely enthused (and pressured by the parents even if it wasn’t) if Southland had just completed its 5th season and already had a lucrative syndication agreement as was the case with Medium.
There was never any doubt that CBS would pick up Medium for NEW episodes when NBC didn’t renew. CBS (the network) wasn’t thrilled about it, but there wasn’t any doubt.
How come Turner Networks saved Southland, but not My Name Is Earl? It doesn’t make any sense.
R.G. “saving” is still in question, but it makes total sense in this way: Southland is produced by Warner Brothers which is owned by Time Warner. TNT also is owned by Time Warner.
My Name is Earl was produced by 20th Century Fox Television that is owned by News Corp which is not Time Warner
Kevin, just so you’re aware, Southland was shooting episode 6 when NBC gave it the late ax. They finished filming that episode and shut down production.
Hey, Southland’s fans should be grateful. The show is getting a better shot than Reaper did at living on. Now if the fans want to get new season they need to watch the episodes that air on TNT and make sure it gets the ratings it needs to survive. They have been given a rare opportunity and they better not blow it.
“The notion that they exist without HAVING TO PAY PEOPLE is nonsense.”
Robert, I never said contracts exist without having to pay people; that’s obviously not the case. I said “WB wouldn’t have to pay the stars anything more until the contract runs out.” The actors have already been paid; they’re bound by the contract until its term runs out. You’ve heard that the contracts expired when NBC canceled the series; Errol and I doubt this. If what you’ve heard is correct – and the contracts did expire as soon as the show was canceled by NBC – then yes, WB would have to extend an option on the actors’ services and pay them more money. If Errol and I are correct and the contracts didn’t expire, then no, WB doesn’t have to pay them anything more until the contracts expire.
This isn’t a weekly or monthly payment. Studios pay actors options on their services (a la holding deals) and also per episode. Options are paid at the start of the contract, generally with the right to extend for another payment. And per episode fees are paid on a percentage basis – x% on the start of photography, y% on completion of photography, and so on. After paying them for episode 6, WB wouldn’t owe them anything more until the contracts run out. At that point WB has to choose to extend, renegotiate, or let the deals lapse.
Incidentally, this is a small part of why I think the contracts didn’t expire on NBC’s cancellation. If they did expire, then WB would have to pay the actors a chunk of money right off the bat – with no guarantee of future episodes – and I don’t think they’d do that. It’s bad business.
I believe this is Robert’s point; it doesn’t make sense to keep extending their contracts without a guarantee of more episodes. But if the contracts lapse and you lose the actors, you no longer have a show to sell. Given that WB is already out the cost of the 6 episodes it’s produced (minus whatever penalty NBC has to pay for the cancellation), they REALLY want to sell the show and recoup those costs. So it becomes a business decision that the company makes based on the likelihood of more episodes vs. the cost of extending the contracts. If you’ve got a bunch of young, cheap actors and a popular show, it might be worthwhile. Southland is more questionable.
To Julia’s point (and Errol later noted this), there is a hierarchy to actors’ projects. WB would have all the series regulars in first position, meaning Southland is the actors’ #1 priority and they have to drop everything else to film the show. Given the current uncertainty, actors can also sign on to do pilots (and several pilots at that; Gillian Jacobs was in both the pilot for The Good Wife and Community) or other projects. For these pilots/other projects, they’d be in second position. Yet another project could hire them in third position. Producers would weigh an actor’s other commitments before hiring them in second or third position; everyone wants their actors in first position.
If you’re on a successful show that’s been renewed, going out for a pilot makes no sense, but doing a movie does. Further, certain actors have outs – to do a movie, to do a play, whatever. It all depends on how big a star you are and what your agent can negotiate. There are also actors who have exclusive deals with a certain network/studio; they have the least amount of flexibility.
So Southland has the series regulars in first position, but the actors can go do other projects in this period of uncertainty. The people hiring them in second position would have to decide whether they’re worth the risk that Southland could come back and their parts would have to be recast.
Finally, to Bill’s question about actors shunning networks, that doesn’t happen very often. Unless a network or studio treats an actor *really* badly, of course. There are only so many outlets in town and only so many jobs. It’d be a luxury to be able to swear off a buyer forever; most actors don’t have that luxury. Also, it’s important to note the revolving door of executives. People swore Joss would never work at Fox again and look at him now. It’s a bit silly to refuse to work at NBC when all the execs at NBC will be different in 3 years. It might be a consideration if an actor has multiple offers from different networks, but that, too, is a luxury that most don’t have.
Cammy, there’s a lot of doubt in my mind for now about whether there is actually show to sell and whether the show’s actors are under contract or will be once TNT gets around to airing the episodes. There’s a difference between selling a show and selling episodes that have already been made.
I talked to someone at Warner Bros, but not somebody who works on Southland. What they told me was that NBC had already paid the licensing fees on the six episodes (that is assumed to be fees less than the actual cost of production), but they negotiated the rights (to air) they’d already paid away against the cancellation fee.
People can look at the same picture and see different things. I see TNT, barring a miracle, as Southland’s final resting place rather than its new home. Nothing that’s happened so far and none of the discussion here changes that view. Others obviously see it differently and that’s OK with me
Thats smart for TNT, to test the new already produced episodes of Southland before making a decision and at the same time airing the season 1 reruns.
Its still odd how its the end of October and theres only 1 cancellation (if Southland isnt counted). Thats never happened before.
Robert, that’s so wonderfully cynical I’m sure you’re correct! I had been working under the notion that this was WB standing behind a quality show and wanting to see it succeed on a more supportive network. But if they just want to air the produced episodes and be done with it, that’s something else entirely. In that case, you’re quite correct; they would simply let the deals lapse. And as soon as they let the actors out of those deals, it’s very unlikely the show would be coming back.
I don’t really watch cable shows except for Sex and the City, MTV and Project Runway. But I will watch Southland in TNT
This actually reminds me when TNT bought The Pretender, who got dumped on NBC for the XFL (a decision so bad, I WANT to believe Ben Silverman had something to do with it) . They were going to air a trilogy of movies, but the first two didn’t do so hot. So we fans were stuck with a boring second movie.
Who knows if Souhthland will survive past the second season, but its better than the series’ second year just sitting on the shelf. The good thing about NBC shows is that when they dump something good, another network picks it up so saves it. DirecTV and USA helped save Friday Night Lights and L&O Criminal Intent and CBS picked up Medium. TNT can help Southland out too. I still think FOX picking up Earl and pairing it with Sons of Tucson would have been a good combo but it seems Earl will never finish his list.
Seriously, why TNT would pick a show that (suppossedly) doesn’t have a future?
And, very important, the thing with Medium was very diferent. It was a show in it’s 5th season that made the pick up inminent due of syndication value. Southland it’s still in 2nd season. syndication value? zero
If you say it’s because of the actors, look at cable shows. for example, “my boys” from TBS. the production only takes THREE months and still all the actors come back
Either way, if Southland only last the 6 episodes from season 2, at least it’s something for the fans
Joseph – Think of it this way. TNT is basically airing this show as a test. The episodes are already produced so they can air as originals and if they do well TNT can consider another year and if they dont then thats the end. Its not like TNT is spending $$$ to produce a new season of a drama that was initially cancelled.
@Dan:
i know that, what i’m saying it’s that there’s still a small chance that southland will survive, but the headline pretty much says “southland is cancelled” “there won’t be any more episodes”
well it’s cancelled already. i should have said “southland is dead” “there won’t be any more episodes”
Joseph – Thats likely true, but TNT wont get hurt by it. Its only 6 episodes, so that should go by quick enough. Its like when ABC picked up Surviving Suburbia from CW last season, the episodes were all produced but never aired and ABC wasnt hurt too much by airing the series, they just convieniently burned through all 13 episodes. But I agree Southland is basically dead, but atleast the Season 2 episodes air going to air.
PLEASE JUST GET STARTED SHOWING SOUTHLAND, LOVED THIS SHOW AND TNT WILL DO WELL, JUST PLEASE ADVERTISE WHEN IT STARTS.
Bill, what does this mean for Dark Blue’s chances for a second season? TNT has made no announcements yet about Dark Blue and Raising the Bar’s chances of new seasons.
IF TNT picks up Southland, that probably means that the chances of either Dark Blue or Raising the Bar getting a new season are pretty low, right?
I LOVE Dark Blue. I want it to get a season two. When do you think we will hear some news on it? It’s almost November already.
Love Southland. F NBC.
NBC will have this decision to comeback and haunt them.
It will TNT’s gain and their loss. TNT now has a compatible show with Dark Blue so that could be a nice cop drama lineup. TNT should think about opening up Friday Nights for Southland and Dark Blue against USA Friday.