I know, I know. You love John Noble as Dr. Walter Bishop. You just want to pinch his cheeks. You wish that Astrid had a bigger role. You liked that you got to learn more about Agent Broyles last night and you even got to see him crack a smile in last night’s opener.
You loved the special effect of the dead “dust people” and the “shadow man”.
Generally, you think the Fringe has gotten better in season two.
You were worried when FOX moved the show to Thursday. But we told you to relax, that FOX was just looking to improve its overall standing on Thursdays (and the fall in general, for that matter) and could tolerate big decreases over last year’s numbers. And all that was probably true at the time, but now is another time, with another truth.
Sure the ratings were a bit worrisome before last night. Now they are quite worrisome.
There are some common misconceptions:
It still did better than last year!
No, it didn’t.
Though that has been true for most of the case this season, the year ago Kitchen Nightmares that aired on the same Thursday in 2008 outperformed last night’s Fringe by ~25 percent.
Damn Yankees! Nobody knew it was on because of the World Series!
But what about Bones?
There’s at least a little truth there because had the series extended to seven games, last night would’ve been game seven. But the thing is Bones at 8pm would’ve suffered for that too, and it did suffer. By one-tenth of an 18-49 ratings point versus its last original airing. Fringe suffered by half an 18-49 ratings point. So sure, baseball probably played a role, but it did not likely play a role in a way that would produce 5X as much 18-49 ratings drop as Bones.
Update: My DVR Program Guide Didn’t Get Updated!
OK, but if that was the cause of last night’s pronounced drop off, it wasn’t the reason why Bones didn’t drop as much as program guides that didn’t pick up Fringe didn’t pick up Bones either. October 15th the difference between Fringe’s Live and Live+SD viewing (same night DVR) with adults 18-49 was .38 of an 18-49 ratings point. For Bones it was .46 of an 18-49 ratings points difference (more adults 18-49 watched Bones on their DVRs the same night than watched Fringe). On an absolute basis, any issues with DVR program guides should’ve impacted Bones more than Fringe, not less.
But its so much better this year, how can it be the ratings are worse?
9pm Thursdays!
There’s no doubt Fringe is in a much more competitive hour, without the substantial lead-ins it had last year. Whatever perception one might have about its quality don’t matter. Even if you could find an objective, rather than subjective measure for quality, we’d still have to conclude what we always conclude: quality doesn’t always matter when it comes to the ratings.
The two shows I watched at 9pm are Fringe and Supernatural. Last night, combined they did not add up to what ABC, CBS and NBC did from 9p-10p. What conclusion can I make from that? I conclude that way, way more people like the other shows that are on at 9pm than the shows I like at 9pm! (note, I am a big 30 Rock fan, but I’ve been getting to that on the weekend via On-Demand since NBC has ended the stupid and is no longer charging $.99 for its shows).
What happens next?
We do what we always do: we wait!
Next week will be a big deal. If it returns to the 2.2ish adults 18-49 ratings range, FOX will likely simply view last night as a blip and stay the course. If it continues in the 1.7 range or worse, drops, FOX will have to make some decisions about what it wants to maximize and how.
Join the campaign to save Fringe!!
Thanks for the added Friday stress.
Haven’t watched Fringe yet but that was an awesome Supernatural. Seriously…
Baseball really hurt Fringe. I wonder with such a long time off, if Glee will be just as affected.
Parenthood, why did it really hurt Fringe and not hurt Bones nearly as much? What’s the basis of your comment?
I vote we hire planes to draw peanuts in the sky over FOX studios.
That’ll show ‘em!
New Bingo Card – “It wasn’t on my DVR’s Program Guide”
To add to the freak out: I received my first Fox Viewer Advisory Panel email in quite a while today and it was asking me my opinion about Fringe. It has only ever done that in the past about shows that are legitimately on the bubble besides the time it asked me how important Paula Abdul was to me as a judge on AI.
I have dish network and they didn’t update their program guide so my dvr didn’t record it, I’m hearing this is the case in alot of places. The dvr numbers for this will be horrible because of the confusion, next week it will be back up, I’m not worried. As for bones, well that damn show Is a rock!
Fringe has a full season order for 22 episodes. If your “bean counters controlling the networks” argument is correct, those 22 episodes are going to be made and broadcast, come hell or highwater.
It’s just a question of WHEN the shows are broadcast. Here’s the scenarios as I see them:
1) Not moving Fringe from this timeslot indicates that FOX is at least satisfied with its performance and will probably renew the show. It’s debatable whether they will leave it at this timeslot though, and this is also the least likeliest occurence if the ratings slide is permanent.
2) Moving the show to an easier night, behind American Idol or 24, would indicate FOX wants to save the show, so much so that they’re willing to put a newer show on at a tougher night like Thursday or Friday. I have no idea how FOX’s Spring Schedule is going to fit so I’m just ballparking this one, feel free to yell at me and say there’s no room anywhere else except for…
3) The show is moved to Friday in the Spring. This indicates that FOX is definitely going to drop the axe on the show, no ifs or buts.
The_GodfatherSJP – I agree with your scenarios. All other things being equal, I could see FOX wanting to try Fringe after House since Lie to Me hasn’t been doing gangbusters in that slot.
But all other things are not equal. Fringe is a Warner Bros production and Lie to Me is 20th Century Fox.
i think FOX should move it to fridays and move Human Target to thursday to give it a chance in a non friday slot
with friday = Double Til Death and fringe after dollhouse ends its run
Moving Fringe to Friday in January replacing the two “comedies” makes sense to me too, assuming next week’s ratings aren’t higher. There has to be some audience overlap with DH. It can’t be worse than Prison Break.
Well only reason it got good numbers last yr was American Idol. It was obvious it was going to fail on its own.
I don’t watch much live tv as I’m busy putting my little ones down for bed and cleaning up. I’m pissed because I didn’t know that Comcast here in ct didn’t update the baseball game so Fringe didn’t record on my DVR.
Godfather’s review is accurate, with one detail:
Since Past Life had its order cut, that prime post-AI Tuesday 9pm slot is at least partially unfilled.
Whether Fox orders more Lie to Mes, moves Fringe there, or moves Human Target there (and airs a lot of Glee repeats on Wednesdays) pretty much determines how the rest of the schedule shakes out.
Lie to Me wasn’t doing much better on Thursdays last year if I recall, so what Fox should do is put Kitchen Whatever there, and either air Fringe on Tuesday (thus giving it another season in 10/11) or order more Lie to Mes (remember, Fox is waiting on the additional script order to decide what happens) and abandon Fringe to burnoff death on Fridays.
Personally, I think Fringe has more upside than Lie to Me, but it is a WB show.
I’m all for Frothy Fringe Fridays with the Derided Dollhouse.
I think Fox will stick with the for another full season. Atleast I hope so. Boot Lie to Me.
Robert, I think as your charts have shown for a while now, Bones is a fairly established show. It doesn’t matter where FOX moves it, or when, its fans know where it is, and it turns in consistent ratings. Fringe as a sophomore show has been bleeding viewers, and would have definitely benefited from a little more shepherding by the network. I’d say the scale of the viewer drop off for both shows last night is reflective of that.
Actually that’s a very, very important detail in Lie To Me vs. Fringe.
Remember guys, Bean Counters. That means whichever show makes more money for the corporation gets favored. FOX isn’t going to replace Fringe with Lie To Me, or do anything to hurt Lie To Me for Fringe’s benefit. Just remember the post with Dollhouse, all the DVD and syndication revenue? Well, FOX gets that money too, it doesn’t get any of that for Fringe.
Thing is, Lie To Me didn’t sell any DVDs at ALL if you check The-numbers.com charts (it was released on August 25th, 2009 in the USA) nor did it even appear on the charts. Fringe sold over 100,000 DVDs in its first week of release. That indicates there really isn’t a fanbase for Lie To Me, there IS for Fringe. So FOX really isn’t seeing much money from peripheral sales after broadcast with Lie To Me, nor should it expect any at this point.
So what do you do if you’re a network? Favor your own show, which doesn’t seem to have much of a fanbase, or favor the studio show that has a bigger fanbase but worse ratings?
They shouldnt have moved it in the first place. Even so, people were clearly losing interest in it after the first episode of Season 2. I know some people who quit watching when it was clear we werent going to see any more of the other universe than the WTC shot. It would have been better to give viewers a tour of the other universe for a few episodes, then have Olivia return with stories of her travels there.
Though it will likely last the full season, I dont expect to see it back next year at this point. With so many self contained episodes, its trying to be X-Files: The Next Generation and not succeeding. I expect any move to be to Fridays – aka The Dead Zone. While the X-Files grew to greatness on Fridays, that was a different era.
I hope Fringe survives into Season 3 but its looking very dicey. Flash Forward is also showing stress cracks.
Will V implode next? At this rate there wont be anything left worth watching after LOST expires next Spring closely followed by HEROES (ok, Heroes hasnt been good since Season 1, but it still sort of watchable and better than sitcom, crime, legal and medical shows).
I think Bones fans are more obsessive so more likely knew if their show was on. Fringe isn’t at that stage of devotion yet.
If it stays low next week then feel free to freak but I wouldn’t just yet.
Perhaps Bones fans were more in-tune with the Baseball schedule than Fringe fans
I say that half-teasing but hey there may be some demographic rationale there. Regardless it’ll all “come out in the wash” in the next couple weeks.
fringe was not in my guide data, it showed other shows on, but i knew it was on, but i had to force a manual re-download of guide data to record show…so it could be a fluke but i doubt it, fox will likely move show to fridays next year
FrankJ, for whatever reasons, more people found Bones last night than Fringe. Bones is a consistent performer, wherever they put it. Fringe isn’t. But FOX promoted the hell out of Fringe last year, and may well feel like “why should we have to go out of our way to promote the hell out of this show after all we did last year.” By the way, Fringe has been promoted often both during NFL games and the World Series, so I wouldn’t say FOX isn’t promoting it.
But the two reasons I’ve seen given repeatedly for last night are baseball and DVR issues. Obviously Bones was more impervious than Fringe, but that it only dropped .1 while Fringe dropped .5 – I can’t ascribe that to “shepherding” issues on FOX’s part, if you can, so be it!
Well, like you’ve said Robert, we’ll know next week if this is a blip or not.
My money is: it’s not.
I have to say this though: from a strategy standpoint, it hardly seems like a good idea to place a sophomore show, no matter how successful, against the true heavyweights for each network. Grey’s, CSI, The Office, 30 Rock, these are all historically some of the best performers for their respective networks with an established audience.
The more I follow these ratings, the more I become convinced of this simple fact: an established audience won’t stop watching their favorite show for a newer one, no matter how good it is. Meaning, every Fringe fan who watches Grey’s, CSI, etc., it going to favor Grey’s et. al. over Fringe in a live broadcast. Doesn’t matter if Fringe has better episodes or not. You simply can’t win this way if a show is in its sophomore year. So why do this? You’re going to destroy a show in its “toddler” years.
Bones did better because it’s in a better timeslot. Besides, Lie To Me is doing worse than Fringe in the post House slot and it doesn’t have The Mentalist to contend with. Also, the timeslot is bad for Fringe. It goes up against CSI and Greys Anatomy! Of course, it’s going to lose more viewers after a long hiatus than Bones. If Bones were airing at 9 on Thursdays, it might do worse ratings. If Fringe were on Wednesdays at 9 with no lead-in, it might do better in the demos and in total viewers than Glee!
What I don’t get about Fringe is that most fans still love the show and haven’t bailed. I think it’s actually getting stronger each episode. With Heroes, Flash Forward and other shows for example you can see the disgruntlement from fans and the ratings drop in lockstep. I guess it’s the new time slot but everyone I know watches this stuff time-shifted anyway so they aren’t pulling it off their DVR’s because it’s on Thursday now.
I’m new to following ratings and this site (awesome site btw) but I get the reasons why advertisers don’t care about “non-live” viewing habits. It’s hard to ignore though that it does get a decent boost via DVR (won’t think week though with the program guide fiasco).
Before they toss it out they should give it a shot on another less crowded night.
Damn this sucks, I heard a lot of people on other sites complaining about the dvr issues last night so hopefully most people just didn’t see that it was on….but I doubt it.
I just don’t remember any night ever being as packed with quality shows as thursday nights currently are. I don’t even watch Greys and it takes me til the weekend most times to get to 30 rock and community.
How about some news on Smallville’s 10th season? That would make this hurt less.
Sorry, but things like Of course, it’s going to lose more viewers after a long hiatus than Bones. are complete conjecture.
It might be correct,and I’d agree that Fringe is in the tougher time slot. But I don’t agree that Fringe would be impacted 5X as much due to baseball. I can’t just wave my hand and say “OF COURSE that would happen!” It surprises me so many people can. But, I am quite often surprised.
As for doing better than Lie to Me after House, I noted that in a comment above, but since Fringe is a Warner Bros production and Lie to Me is a Fox production I’m not sure how likely it is for FOX to rearrange to Fringe’s benefit.
I have RCN as my cable provider and have Motorola cable boxes.
Throughout the broadcast of Fringe last night, the guides indicated the World Series game (scheduled from 7:30 to 10:30 East Coast).
Even though during Game 6 on Wednesday Fox was saying that a new Fringe was going to be shown on Thursday (first said when the game was 7-1 before Philly’s mini-rally — I was thinking about the egg they would have on their face if there was a Game 7 — think “Dewey Beats Truman”), the national guide updates — to show Bones/Fringe at 8/9 — did not make it down to all cable headends and end-user boxes.
As more and more people use electronic program guides, the fact that Fringe was not listed in guide probably had an impact on viewership.
This happened a couple of years ago to C.S.I. The guide data showed a repeat episode when a new episode was actually being broadcast. The incorrect guide data had a measurable impact on the show’s rating for the night.
As noted above, the fact that Bones was less impacted probably speaks to the different demographics of the shows’ viewers. Fringe’s average viewer probably is more apt to rely on the interactive program guide (whether for browsing or recording).
I need my Fringe because year over year there seems to be less I want to watch.
I need my Fringe because episode over episode I seem to fall more in love with Anna Torv
FOX should place House on Thursdays 9 pm. At least, they can save Fringe from being canceled. House has more potential at this timeslot. The showdown would be interesting.
Paul, I don’t doubt the impact. So I’ll try this again
I just doubt that it impacted Fringe SO much more than BONES (which also wasn’t listed according to your DVR) based on past DVR Live+7 data. While Fringe has a higher percentage of DVR viewing, Bones actually has more absolute DVR viewing but Bones was only off .1 from its last airing and Fringe was off .5. I can’t really make the math work based on previous DVR stats. We’ll know two weeks from Monday for sure though.
DirecTV didn’t update their guide until the same day a few hours before airing, depending on how you record, you could easily have missed Fringe or Bones. If you had a season pass set, you had more luck. I don’t see that as unreasonable to explain things. I’m sure Fringe’s numbers will be back up next week. As for why Bones wasn’t hit as hard, its timeslot isn’t as bad and Bones fans have proven they will find their show and watch no matter when it airs. There were probably alerts all over the place that a new ep would air.
I know its sweeps, but I doubt Fox is panicking over Fringe’s ratings this week. The schedule had the World Series and in one day they had new episodes airing instead of repeats and not much to let you know about the change. I watched the World Series and assumed they would have to be airing repeats the next day, not enough time for fans to know their shows are coming back, was surprised when late in Game 6 they did that commercial. I’m surprised they went with two new unpromoted eps. Yeah, I watch baseball, Bones, and Fringe, but I don’t think all fans of those shows were watching baseball and knew it was coming back early.
oh no ! Did I miss fringe last night ? I thought it was still boring baseball or football or something..
Darn it, I love this show.
Jasmine, on October 15th the difference between Fringe’s Live and Live+SD viewing (same night DVR) with adults 18-49 was .38 of an 18-49 ratings point. For Bones it was .46 of an 18-49 ratings points difference (more adults 18-49 watched Bones on their DVRs the same night than watched Fringe). On an absolute basis, any issues with DVR program guides would’ve impacted Bones more.
Paul says:
“Fringe’s average viewer probably is more apt to rely on the interactive program guide (whether for browsing or recording).”
On a practical level, how is this different from “Fringe’s average viewer seems to completely forget about the program if it’s off the air for two weeks”?
Fringe: Wednesday 9 EST
Glee: Thursday 8 EST
Bones: Thursday 9 EST
There, problem solved!
Robert, I think Bones fans are a bit intense. They post EVERYWHERE. They are mobilized and organized. Their show moved to Tuesday, they watched, to Monday, they watched, to Friday, they watched, to Wednesday they watched, now to Thursday, they still watch. Do I think this impacted Bones viewers knowing their show was airing a new episode tomorrow more than Fringe viewers? Yes. I understand your stats, but numbers don’t always tell the entire story, though I do understand that’s the basis for your site.
Robert’s right–there’s no excuse for Fringe to be pulling a 1.7 when Bones pulled significantly higher than that at 8:00. I think Fringe is poorly conceived and that’s why it’s not sticking with fans. There isn’t much chemistry between Olivia Dunham and the Bishops, and the cast of collateral characters I think makes the show confusing. And I say that…being a fan of Fringe!
I know Fox must like the Dance/AI results lead-in for Glee, but facts are facts – Bones is too gory for 8, Fringe is too weak for Thursdays, and Glee is too solid and family friendly to be airing Wed 9
Actually, Dish Network DID update for Bones, but DID NOT update for Fringe. When I saw Bones on the schedule, I went to my computer and checked the Fox schedule manually. So, yes, DVR scheduling if you are a Dish Network customer most certainly could have affected whether or not you watched the program.
@Scott R,
Bones has been at 8 for at least half its run and Glee is definitely not family friendly. I realize you want to save Fringe, but FOX has no reason to risk a solid player (Bones) and a critically acclaimed buzzed about show (Glee) for the sake of a second year show that keeps losing viewers.
I can’t even contemplate ditching Fringe now, the writing is fantastic, even if the casting has left a lot of be desired. I stayed on in faith to Orci, Kurtzman and Abrams and I love that its gotten better and for some reason, it just feels strange whipping out a “Save Fringe” campaign.
Actually, Dish Network DID update for Bones, but DID NOT update for Fringe.
Oooh, a conspiracy to get Fringe?
The Truth is out there Rob. (with apologies to Muldur and Scully)
Holly, what second year show wouldn’t lose a lot of viewers when it’s up against Grey’s, CSI, 30 Rock, and The Office?
There aren’t any. I don’t think any of the big hit shows, from House to NCIS to 24, could survive this 9PM hour intact if they were just in their second year, like Fringe. Why would a TV audience stop watching a long established hit show on Thursday and switch to a sophomore show at the same time?
Answer: nobody. For FOX to think that any sophomore show could survive at this time and this day of the week is ridiculous. No one is going to leave an established veteran show for a new one. Doesn’t happen, no matter what genre.
Of course everyone expected it to lose viewers with the move, continuing to lose viewers week-to-week is another matter. Regardless, there’s still no reason for FOX to sacrifice two other shows for that one.
Spare me. I’ll wait until next week’s ratings for an episode the audience KNOWS is coming on, versus last night when people probably assumed it was a rerun because baseball wasn’t on.
Bones is showing more gore this season. I didn’t watch the first two seasons of Bones regularly but have watched all episodes since, its worse this season. Apparently the creator or writer said he was going to be doing that, having more noticeable grotesque stuff. I’m not personally a fan of it, but the change does make it more of a 9pm show than a 8pm show. And some of the stuff has been really nasty. Beware of eating while watching kind of stuff.
I knew Fringe was on but I was so sure it would be a rerun, which is the the networks did it in the past. I was wrong and now I’ll have to catch it online. I hope to get DVR in 2010.
Thing is, it seems like FOX decided to throw Fringe to the wolves from the get go here.
I’ve actually never watched a single episode. But you have a Sci-Fi niche show here, one that’s never going to have a very large audience just because of it’s genre. It’s a show that got 8-9 million viewers on average last year with an 18-49 demo of 3.5-4.0 (and I’m referring to BEFORE getting protected by American Idol). You’ve got the makings of a Sci-Fi hit here, as its good DVD sales suggest. You why take a show like this, which could grow and become a nice hit for years on a network, and place it in a position where it can’t possibly succeed?
Yeah, of course they knew it was going to drop, but they didn’t think it would drop THIS much obviously. My question is, why? Why did they think it was stronger? And why use a sophomore show that is specifically more vulnerable for that reason ALONE than House or another established TV show?
Oops, meant to say which is the way the networks did it in the past.
By the way, Holly, FRINGE was a “critically acclaimed buzzed about show” in its first season too…
so I guess by your rationale they oughta throw Glee into this buzzsaw next year.
@The_GodfatherSJP,
I think FOX thought Fringe was stronger than it actually was. They gave it every opportunity last year to build an audience, and it managed to stay rather stable. They weren’t expecting a whole lot out of it: I think they were content with a 2.3, but not the 2.0 it got a few weeks ago.
They probably wanted to keep their procedurals away from the CBS procedurals, and thought a sci-fi show might offer decent counter-programming to the Thursday slot.
At most, the numbers just show that Bones has a better rerun audience, which isn’t so surprising considering it’s not as serialized as Fringe is. And that’s not news, considering it’s the reason why FOX is rerunning Bones on Fridays this month in order to boost up sweeps ratings. Lost shows the exact same parallel.
I don’t even think the episodes were promoted. Like I said, I’ll wait for next week when factors are more normal before I’ll worry. Fringe still does massively better in the timeslot than anything FOX has had there before.
Holly, it seems to me that it’s actually as important to protect a show in its second year than its first year, although I agree that they thought Fringe was stronger that it is. They wouldn’t have given Fringe a Full Second Season and Lie To Me just 13 episodes in that case.
Thing is, I think even with the lower ratings Fringe is still the stronger show. You put Lie To Me in this buzzsaw and its going to tank much worse than Fringe. My piece of evidence for this is the DVD and BluRay sales. Fringe sold 200,000 DVD units in 3 weeks according to The-numbers.com. Lie To Me, which was released on August 25th on DVD and BluRay, didn’t even crack the Top 30 the week it was released (the #30 spot was held at about 25,000 DVD units). So there’s clearly a nice fanbase already for Fringe and no fanbase at all for Lie To Me. It’s doing alright because its behind House, period.
Personally I think FOX is going to try to wrangle a smaller licensing fee from WB to keep the show on the air again.
30 rock is one of the most highly decorated shows on TV and can barely compete with the CSI/GA lock on Thursdays. Putting Fringe in that slot was risky at best and I have faith that FOX knew this going in. I crowned FOX my favorite network this year after the ABC cancel-fest last year. I hope they don’t disappoint. Would love to see 24 up in that slot…now there is a battle. But really…what is wrong with Friday if you’re DVRing anyway. Long Live Walter Bishop!!
I agree that Fringe is probably stronger, but since Lie To Me is produced by FOX, it’s going to get the preferential treatment.
“New” does not mean “knew.” They are totally different concepts. “Our” is a possessive whereas “are” is a verb. Please learn this.
Where was this buzz about Fringe in S1? All I heard buzz about was J.J, (the LOST guy) not the show. The pilot was awful. Some people melted in a plane and their faces fell off. Shock value….nothing more.
Thursday nights are insane.
We are using 4 tuners on our DVR at some point during the night.
Sean Phillips — knowing something and typing something are two different things. Fortunately, knowing you’re a total douche doesn’t require any typing skills.
Robert, I think the issue is that Bones is the type of procedural show that anyone can tune into and watch at any time, whether they’ve seen previous episodes, whether they’ve seen the current episode already, etc. It’s the type of thing that CBS loves to air because it’s so accessible to casual viewers. If you’re watching live TV on FOX and Bones comes on, you’re very likely to leave it that channel. If your DVR was set to record Game 7 and actually recorded Bones instead, you might very well watch Bones. If you had nothing better to watch because you had left the night open for Game 7, Bones is as good of choice as any.
But Fringe, on the other hand, is something that only its fans will seek out. It’s not the type of show that is accessible to those who haven’t seen it. Because of its serialized nature, even its own fans wouldn’t have watched last night’s episode if they weren’t caught up on previous episodes. It’s highly unlikely that someone who just watched Bones because they were too lazy to change the channel will also watch Fringe for the same reason. Fringe is the opposite of lazy man’s TV, and it will actually drive away casual viewers.
I think that explains the difference in ratings between the two shows on Thursday night.
I forgot to mention, many people probably thought Fox would air reruns on Thursday because Game 7 was originally scheduled there.* For those people, a rerun of Bones is much more likely to draw an audience than a rerun of Fringe, for the reasons I already explained.
Also, because of it’s serialized nature and sci-fi bent, Fringe is likely to have a higher percentage of viewers via DVR than a show like Bones. If the program guide wasn’t updated in time, that hurts Fringe more than it hurts Bones.
* I realize that Fox made it very clear in their promos that the shows would be new if baseball was over. But that doesn’t mean that most people who weren’t watching the WS actually realized that.
By the way, Holly, FRINGE was a “critically acclaimed buzzed about show” in its first season too…so I guess by your rationale they oughta throw Glee into this buzzsaw next year.
I’m not saying they should have put Fringe in this situation, I’m saying it would be stupid to sacrifice Glee to fix it.
This isn’t a shock, but it still greatly upsets me;I just recently became a fringe fan and am now an obsessive fan. The writing and execution is brilliant and they’re always leave you off with an excellent cliffhanger,and John Noble’s performane along with Torv is amazing. The only frustrating thing about this show which could be a plus but is considered a downfall to the typical audience is that the showis extremely slow and has a lot more questions than answes and is sometimes very confusing for the nonattentive viewers. I agree that the ratings for this show were indeed frightening bur it makes sense as the World Series was on. We will have to wait until next week episode; if it goes back to the 2.2ish rating then we have less to worry about.if not ten we will have to either wait and pray that Fox changes the timeslot to a more favorable time slot like after House or protest and throw rocks at Fox for not caring and not devoting more time and patience to this awesome show. Then again it’s J J Abrams so naybeFox will keep his show.
Do you think Fringe will die?
The drop in ratings for Fringe was totally predictable. The plain and simple fact is that it is an OK show. Just that. . .OK only. It has no chance to compete at 9:00 Thursday no matter how much its loyal fans want that to be so. If it survives at all, it will be with its tail between its legs to another night. Probably Wednesday.
I will concede one point to all of you Fringe fanatics. It is a better show that Lie to Me.
Well, my theory, if Fringe fails on Fox, WB is going to push the show to the CW and they’re gonna pair it with supernatural or Smallville. How about that?
Samuel, its way too expensive for the CW & doesnt fit their “brand” of shows(mostly rich teenagers with problems).
Well, my theory, if Fringe fails on Fox, WB is going to push the show to the CW and they’re gonna pair it with supernatural or Smallville. How about that?
How’d that theory work out for TSCC?
I liked the show last year, especially as it built to its conclusion. But after this year’s premiere hit the reset button with some seriously clumsy plotting (amnesia? really), combined with the fact that the writing got worse, combined with new cast members who couldn’t act… I didn’t tune in again.
As a viewer I can ignore some of those things, but all three at once, I just can’t. It’s too bad, it was a fun enough diversion, but I didn’t like the show enough to force myself to watch after watching became a chore.
Holly –
Your assumption about my motives are fallacious, and I’m not sure that a show centered around semi-decomposed bodies are more family-friendly than a song-and-dance show with some nuanced adult themes.
Yeah I know it’s impossible… but I’m just saying in order to prevent other people of saying and, believing it.
I said it in another post, and I’ll say it again here: the awesome excuse bingo cards need to be supplemented with a spinner that will select for us what fast food sandwich product we should purchase en masse to save our show (in this case, Fringe).
Joseph: Why limit it to sandwiches? A spinner for alcoholic beverages to have with the sandwiches…
…eh-oh! Assign drink values to each bingo excuse…
…eh-oh! Nobody would be able to post anything legible here for about a day – two days during March through May
Fringe has become MUCH better this year!
even my wife started watching (she lost interest last year)
FOX, do the right thing and give it a chance (advertise!)
JJ
When they originally announced the move to thursday for Fringe, I tried not to worry but the fear was always in the back of my mind. I know it is a nitch show but in my oppinion it is a good show. Much like Kings last year, best show of 2008, it seems the network is just willing to sacrafice it. It would be nice if one of these crime shows or Glee failed for once instead of the ones that actually require some thought when viewing. I almost don’t want to invest time in anything anymore if it’s just going to get the axe. Case in point I started to watch V and liked it but you just never know.
Theoacme, I was thinking of the campaign to save Chuck via buying Subway sandwiches that ultimately saw Subway step up their sponsorship of the show and factored in its half-season (since expanded) renewal. But perhaps not limiting it to sandwich-type food is a good idea. Maybe fans need to launch a Fringe Fries campaign.
@Theoacme,
Yes, there’s a reason we came up with Bingo and not a drinking game.
How about a Dollhouse drinking game, since the ratings come in on a Saturday? No one has to worry about work! And we have a whole month to plan it now.
” It would be nice if one of these crime shows or Glee failed for once”
Crime shows, yes. But Glee? It’s a freaking weekly *musical*! If you don’t like the show that’s fine, but we should all be happy when such a weird concept not only survives, but thrives in the ratings. We complain constantly that the real creative concepts are never given a chance or fail when they are. Well, this is one that’s making it. I can’t imagine hating on it even if I didn’t like it, just on general principle.
Why is Fox afraid to put Dollhouse on any other night? Would it do wrse than Fringe? Why not give Dollhouse the American Idol lead-in?
And Glee is one of the best shows on tv right now! I just love Jane Lynch!
Fringe was a top 20 18-49 show last year behind 2 great lead ins. LTM has been very average behind HOUSE.
If it came down to the bubble shows, would it really make much of a difference, since LTM doesn’t sell any Dvd’s?
We already know what Fringe can do behind HOUSE. I think FOX does what ABC did with Private Practice. It saw that it didn’t do well by itself, so it got moved behind Grey’s. There’s no way they give up so soon on this show. \
It’s actually following a similar path like the X-Files, being in danger so soon.
I am not worried at all. Fringe is a lock to be renewed. They have alot invested in the show and there is no way Fox will just dump a JJ ran show without trying to boost it with more ad’s or switch time slots etc. Its DVR numbers show that a lot of people are watching at other times during the week. That in itself doesn’t help the show but the other reasons I mentioned above will save it. Fringe is a lock, anyone who is a fan and is riled up remember this site thrives on popular shows having neilsen issues.
You can try and Bones-out a reason, but it was the baseball. Baseball baseball baseball. My SO who is a big fan got confused by the semi-cryptic “IF NO BASEBALL” under the trailers, and the DVR just about updated in time. Back to 2.2 next week.
C’mon, guys, we know you have a post in draft about how GLEE plummeted this week, just for the heck of it.
I watched Fringe last season, and came to the conclusion that Fox wanted another X-Files (as a previous comment mentioned.) But this season, I haven’t sought it out. The promotions for the show didn’t hold my interest. And according to the ratings slide, I suspect that a lot of other people felt the same way. For some reason, Fringe doesn’t seem to have the loyal fan base X-Files or other scifi series have had.
Perhaps they will turn out for the next few episodes–we’ll see.
Oh ooh, it looks like tvbythenumbers is targeting Fringe now, trying to score hits like they always do when shows are in trouble who have a bit of a fanbase.
As for Fringe, it seems they did not lure any viewers even with their 20+ leadins with over 12 million viewers, AI even gave them lots of 20 million lead in. Good riddance Fringe, you won’t be missed.
I like Fringe, but the past two MotW episodes have truly sucked, and I’m not shocked by the drop in ratings. They were both variations on X-Files MotW episodes — and not even the GOOD ones! I’m aware that Fringe has always been a little too close to XF, and I’ve put up with that, but XF’s “Space” is probably one of the worst episodes of the entire series, and they choose to remake THAT? At least the 2×02 opener was a mix of good-to-iconic XF episodes (Home/The Host/smattering of others).
Pffff!!!
Mais où ils ont la tête ces américains?!!
Je ne comprends pas la FOX d’avoir envoyé Fringe le jeudi soir et encore moins qu’elle continue à démonter la série de semaines en semaines.
C’est catastrophique.
Pourtant, la série était numéro 1 des nouvelles séries sur les 18-49 ans la saison dernière devant The Mentalist, et vice-versa en terme d’audiences..!
Fringe est faite par JJ, donc buzz et fanbase solide!
S’ajoute à cela qu’elle obtient des bons taux concernant les enregistrements numériques…
Et bien sûr, elle se vend très bien à l’internationale et la presse est unanime: Vive Fringe!
L’annuler serait donc une grosse perte pour la FOX.
Mais à ce rythme là, il y a de quoi être inquiet.
Manifestons nous dès à présent pour un changement de case horaire, puis pour une saison 3.
Il faut dire que le fantastique sera toujours boudé par le téléspectateur.
En revanche, les américains se réuniront toujours en masse pour un CSI: Dallas, CSI: Seattle ou encore un CSI: Washington.
Et ce n’est pas dans la soirée “guerrière” que ça va s’arranger.
FlashForward en fait également les frais.
Et pourtant, quelle nouvelle série de qualité…
On n’en parle pas assez, mais il faut dire que la prochaine enquête de Laurence Fishburne dépassera tout évènement télévisuel par son originalité. Just Kidding!
If Fringe will be cancelled i will spam FOX with 100 of emails until they bring it back…
Best show on television… They knew it would drop on Thursdays! So they should try to put it somerwhere else and NOT Friday. They had about 9 or 10 million viewers i think.. They should have them again on a right time slot
I’ll do the same thing
I guess what the “Fringe” fans (who claimed they missed this week’s episode) are trying to tell me is that they’re stupid. And the “Bones” fans are much smarter. Okay, point taken.
Said it before and I’ll say it again. There is a reason “Hell’s Kitchen” clicked in this hour this past spring. Because it was the only reality show on the Big 5 in the hour. (And it had a de facto lead-in in “Survivor.”) The other 4 networks are offering scripted fare. Nobody with any common sense could possibly think that “Fringe,” of all things, was going to compete with them. Meanwhile, FOX is stinking up the joint on Tuesday (getting marginal demos — from viewers mostly in a demographic they don’t even care about) airing reality fare opposite 2 other network’s reality offerings. If “Fringe” was moved from Tuesday to Thursday for any reason other than to justify its cancellation, then the people FOX hired to make these programming decisions are every bit as stupid as the “Fringe” fans who didn’t know their show was on.
You don’t like Fringe?
You don’t like Chuck (refering “chuck sucks” icon)?
Boooww! Get Out ^^
Riff Rafferty says:
“Said it before and I’ll say it again. There is a reason ‘Hell’s Kitchen’ clicked in this hour this past spring. Because it was the only reality show on the Big 5 in the hour. (And it had a de facto lead-in in ‘Survivor.’)”
De facto, de schmacto. Is there any evidence that the audience of the former hydraulically drained into the latter?
Fox should move Fringe back to Tuesday or another night where there is less competition before canceling it. They made the decision to move the show to the highly competitive Thursday night slot. It only makes sense to me that since they made that call, and it failed, they should give it a shot on another night to see if the ratings improve and if the slot is the problem. That’s only fair to the fans and to the show.
Kenny_A – good idea, that very tactic is why Fox changed their minds and renewed T:SCC and Firefly.
Sometimes shows you consider good are simply not popular enough to get the advertising dollars to keep them on the air. A show I like is likely to be canceled in a few months for the same reason. I’m not going to spam anyone about it. You shouldn’t either.
Question: How good does possibly doing better than Lie to Me in a hypothetical situation really make Fringe look? How hard up is FOX for shows that can do nothing, but perform tolerably right behind AI and/or House?
I don’t think its better!
I like the characters, its the writers who are asses. Too much filler nonsense, like the latest one – not enough creative focus on forward momentum.
My DVR also did not record it and I did not even know that it was on, so I too missed it.
The difference with Fringe though is that only I like it. My wife does not so they only have half of our household. That means that it will never get watched live at that time on Thursdays.
Same happened with me , I could not get my DVR to record it because it still listed the ball game instead of Fringe. Its a no brainer that next week will be back over 2.0 again.
fringe on friday?? looks great.. for cancellation.. well its abrams most terryfing show (in a bad way), it does deserves to move on friday..
Joanne: its not so bad as a show. but i want it to drop again, so maybe fox can pair it with dollhouse on friday, moving fringe at 8/7..!
honestly, season 2 so far sucks.
Fringe is fine. Enough of this site’s fear tactics to get fans of shows back to the site over and over.
I like Fringe and LOVE Supernatural. I have them both on series record on my Time Warner DVR. I watch Supernatural live and re-watch with my daughter later. I did not even know there was a Fringe on last Thursday until I saw the ratings for it on Friday, hey I’m not interested in the World Series and the other Fox shows were canceled for the World Series so I had NO idea that Fringe would be new if there wasn’t a 7th WS game. My DVR did not record Fringe. I will watch it online, but my not seeing it has to do with my trusting my DVR, not being not interested. I don’t get a newspaper and I rely on my cable listings to know when there is an new episode of anything. I think Fringe will rebound. I also think they should move it back after House so that the network can save a promising series with a cult following. Plus it would stop pulling viewers from Supernatural.
Thursdays are too crazy. Every show I watch is on Thursday nights EXCEPT “Heroes” and “Dollhouse.” It’s just ridiculous. I was completely confused as to why they moved Fringe, but then again, I don’t understand why Fox does 90% of the things they do.
I don’t know how advertising works, but i know last year ad’s were a premium price and this year is no different. Obviuosly the ad exec’s aren’t pleased, with the results so far this season. CSI has fallen just as hard as Fringe, relative to where CSI was last year.
Vsaint, this year is a lot different. Last year there were fewer ads because Fringe was running with limited commercials (dubbed by FOX as “Remote Free”). Those ads were sold at a premium, but unfortunately they were not able to sell them at a high enough premium to offset having fewer commercials.
This year, the ads were not sold at any premium based on fewer commercials. Ads on Thursdays typically cost more than other days, but at a 1.7 they will be in “make-good” mode.
I can’t explain why Fringe dropped so hard this week. It might be becasue it’s just a poor show and people are not bothering with it, and it might have something to do with the “not knowing it’s on” thing. But then you have to think about the same situation with Bones which didn’t drop as hard. I’m 99% sure next week it will go back up a little. I don’t think there is much reason to panic over it right now.
That said, I’ll tell you all why I don’t and will not watch the show. I started to, watched a number of shows in S1 but then turned it OFF. The reason was because everything I saw was a rip-off of another show, all been done better before. And from comments I read on here it seems nothing has changed. The acting being Z quality had an impact too.
So, I’ll not be watching and I don’t care if the show gets the ax, I actually want it gone becasue it simply annoys me.
One of my big habit changes is that I look at what is scheduled less and less. I never read the TV listing sections in the paper at all, heck not even sure why I am still paying for a daily paper as I hardly ever read it except for the real estate section on Saturdays.
I am getting to to point where I don’t even scan through DVR listings anymore on a daily basis. Most of what I watch is pre-programmed to record. When the schedule is wrong of changed than I miss stuff.
I am watching about 50% of my prime time viewing streaming directly off the computer. I almost never torrent a TV show. Too bad that the quality and voice sync sucks so bad on a lot of this stuff and that the interface with the remote is bad.
Of course this means that I am missing the commercials that pay for the programming. Oh wait I am over 49 so the advertisers do not care about me anyways. Oh well my dog still loves me
FOX CAN GO TO HELL. Fringe has soooooo much potential and they ruined it. WHY would they do this? I’m soooooooo angry, Who the heck is running these networks? I never understand any of there moves. They always backfire, moving fringe to friday would destroy the show even more than they already did, Gosh They suck.
i think bones and fringe probably did lose .2 each through the circumstances, and i would expect them to both rise by .2 next week.
But as FF has shown us, baseball hit its rating and once people missed one or 2 eps it has struggle to pick them back up. I think finge will be the same, off air for a few weeks people have realised they didn’t miss it all that much and continued watching something else. It will also struggle to pick those viewers back up now.
Bones as always showed it performs for fox whatever and sometimes because of this fox doesn’t treat it with the ultimate respect, as it’s so reliable.
I think Bones fans just tuned in regardless, just to watch, even if it’s a rerun.
Fringe hasn’t developed that yet, on Thurs 9pm.
Look at SVU, fans slowly coming back, but it’s still 4th place wed 9pm.
The Mentalist has taken at hit, being moved as well, with weaker compeitition Thur 10pm.
I’m going to be pissed off if this show gets cancelled in favour of LTM, because of the bean counters.
JJ’s not too worried:
http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/11/09/fringe-exclusive-j-j-abrams-on-ratings-and-future/
sushiroll, if JJ was worried that Fringe was coming off the schedule *early* that would really have been news, the fact that he isn’t, isn’t. As it is, that’s just another “non-news” Ausiello “exclusive”.
^ Can you explain? Sorry, my English is limited.
Robert, Bill, about Lie To Me being a FOX show, that’s an advantage for FOX because they keep DVD sales and syndication sales, right?
I don’t think this is as big an advantage as it seems on the surface. The reason why is very simple: DVD sales. Lie To Me was released in late August, around 22-25th of this year. It didn’t even appear on the Nielsen VideoScan or The-numbers.com charts. Even Dollhouse, which has had weak DVD sales, at least showed up. Lie To Me didn’t even sell 25,000 units its first week of release. Fringe sold about 200,000 DVD units and about 40,000 BluRay units in 3 weeks of release.
Now I know the DVD money goes in WB’s pocket, not FOX’s, nor do they see any syndication money from Fringe, but they have to be looking at the DVD sales for Fringe vs. Lie To Me as a pretty strong indicator that:
1) FRINGE has a much bigger fanbase than Lie To Me and therefore
2) The syndication revenue from Lie To Me won’t be nearly as good
It would seem that this would counterbalance Lie To Me being a FOX show, wouldn’t it? Am I very wrong here, or is this a case of not knowing what the network is thinking, i.e. are they going to favor the show with the bigger fanbase or their own show no matter what?
There are lots of perceptions about “size of fan base” that aren’t based on anything tangible. The one thing that is tangible — the ratings, doesn’t really point to a bigger fan base for FRINGE.
Historically FRINGE did better after HOUSE than LTM is doing, but, if I were at FOX Fringe would need to do more than a 10th or two better before I’d be thinking about it. I’d at least want to try it though…and perhaps LTM would fit nicely out of Bones (while still getting its clock cleaned by CSI and Grey’s).
Of course, I’m not at FOX.
Godfather, the fact that Lie to Me is produced by Fox is a potential renewal advantage (vs. Fringe, for example, which you note is produced by Warner Brothers).
But whatever the syndication potential for Fringe is, Fox isn’t going to see any of that money. Warner Brothers will get the syndication money.
If the ratings were judged equivalent based on the many factors involved, LTM likely gets the nod over Fringe, but with these two shows, judging that equivalence is pretty complicated.
sushiroll, there is really no one who was thinking that Fringe was going to be taken off the Fox schedule early, so the fact that Ausiello made that post an “exclusive” is silly, because it’s not news.
Robert, Bill, but it seems to me that any potential syndication money or peripheral sales, like DVDs, are nonexistent for Lie To Me. They’re not really seeing any advantage to owning the show, you see, because of there’s no “extra money” for lack of a better term. That’s the benefit to producing the show, right? They get the syndication and DVD money in addition to broadcast revenue. Well, if syndication and DVD sales are very poor then it’s not really an advantage for Lie To Me right now. There’s just the potential it could grow into something better the longer the show is on the air.
So how much could they really favor their own show in that case?
Godfather, but they are also non-existent for Fringe for FOX. Bill’s point is correct: none of that money matters for FOX. The only way it would matter is if it was so instrumental to Warner Bros that they gave Fringe to FOX at a big discount. But I would not imagine the appeal of Fringe is great enough to result in that kind of discounting.
Robert, yes, I know they’re not existent for Fringe as well. The point is, Lie To Me being a FOX show is being perceived as this big advantage for LTM over Fringe.
Judging from the DVD sales data, I don’t think that’s really the case. It would seem to me that the shows are actually on more of an equal footing, precisely because FOX hasn’t seen a lot of money from Lie To Me outside of broadcast.