In her review of the premiere of ABC’s V, Chicago Tribune TV critic Maureen Ryan made references to similar genre shows that had debuted this fall, including Stargate Universe. Her comments weren’t exactly flattering which led SGU executive producer Brad Wright to leave a comment on her blog, where among other things he said:
[…] fortunately there are enough viewers and reviewers who think SGU is neither boring, poorly plotted, or sexist to keep us on the air long after “V” is just a letter in the alphabet again.”
Talk about putting the V in ratings enVy! Wright might be right that V will go back to just being a letter in the alphabet, but to make that comment after the stellar ratings V pulled in its premiere still is a bit surprising to me. Mo felt compelled to respond to Brad’s comment.
Mo notes that many people who were eagerly anticipating SGU have given up on it. For now, that describes me perfectly. I’ve given up as well, but if I hear it’s turned a corner, I will definitely check it out again. I watched every episode of SG1 and SGA ever made and I wanted to like SGU, but didn’t. For me, it’s like they’ve used none of what I loved about Stargate: SG1 and used many of the things I didn’t love about the later seasons of Battlestar Galactica.
People who have been following Stargate Universe closely will want to read Mo’s article. There’s just too much in the article you’ll want to read to post it all here. So go read it. But Mo struck a chord with this nugget:
If there’s anything I have a problem with, it’s an idea promulgated by some of the show’s defenders — that people who don’t like “Stargate Universe” just don’t get it. I am stunned some of the condescending attitudes I’ve seen. It’s frankly laughable to me, this idea that people who have issues with “SGU” just aren’t smart enough to appreciate qualities such as complexity and ambiguity.
I and many other viewers get what the show is going for. We’re not failing to understand its intentions. We think “SGU” is, in many key respects, falling short of its own goals.
Amen! I added the emphasis above because we see that theme play out so much on our site that “people just aren’t smart enough to understand” made the “Fan Excuse Bingo Cards”
I think it was unnecessary to drag “V” on that discussion.
I’m not really into sci-fi so I’m glad that Maureen Ryan, who is a sci-fi fan, pointed out the elitism of the some sci-fi fans.
I think V is rather irrelevent to this arguement between the Stargate show runners and their critics. From what I’ve seen, the show runners behind the Stargate shows have had an antagonistic relationship and attitude towards other scifi shows that make the old war on Babylon 5 by the Star Trek show runners seem tame. I didn’t give SGU a chance, mostly because I stopped giving these misogynistic writers chances back in the middle of Stargate Atlantis. I know a great deal of other scifi fans, particularly female ones, who have done the same.
It is my perception that they don’t think they are sexist because they generally don’t think anyone criticizing them could ever have a valid point. Their attitude towards the lesbian community during recent controversy only underscores this. Instead of taking a step back and trying to understand the problem, the show runners behind SGU attacked the people they had offended as over sensative and histerical. When fans complained about the firing of a well liked actress from SGA, they weren’t even addressed. When concerns were raised over the behavior of a male character that could be seen as stalking… they were mocked.
Well I love Stargate Universe and couldn’t care less about V. I liked Stargate SG-1 and didn’t like Stargate Atlantis so I’m glad with the direction they’ve taken for Stargate Universe.
I also don’t think that you can garner much from any series initial ratings. All it means is that due to advertising or other things that people were interested to tune in – not that they liked what they saw. The real key is whether they keep tuning in. Flash Forward premiered well and is steadily going down in the ratings. There are so many other channels, shows, DVDs, etc that any show’s producers can’t just assume that if the viewers initially like a show (example Heroes which now gets bad ratings compared to what they used to get) that they’ll put up with watching anything that the show throws out.
I’m sure that the execs at ABC are happy with the ratings from V’s premiere episode. Time will tell if viewers will continue to tune in.
In today’s market with all of the other choices that viewers have it’s hard to get back viewers to tune back in who have tuned out of a show in my opinion. The shows need to do all they can to keep the viewers that they have and to try and attract new viewers.
I think arguments between sci-fi fans about SF shows is self-defeating. There aren’t enough of us to go around as it it. Why must it come down to degrading one show or its fans to uplift another?
Actually, in this day and age, there are quite a number of scifi shows to choose from. People who like scifi really don’t need to act in some group solidarity formed in a time when scifi on television was rare.
This isn’t about scifi fans attacking the fans of another show. This is about a professional in the industry picking a fight with a television critic in public and dragging an unrelated show into that fight.
Good on Mo!
Watching Brad Wright continue to be a complete jerk makes me glad a chose not to watch SGU.
It’s kind of like watching <a href=http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA458094.htmlAnne Rice go nuts on Amazon a few years back, responding scathingly to critics of her books that they just didn’t get her art and all that noise.
Joe Mallozzi’s stupid rant last week and now Brad Wright’s post with the jab at V are hopefully not a start to more of the crew defending the show. There’s tons of criticism out there which usually means there’s a good reason for the criticism, and responding to it really doesn’t help.
I feel like the writers tried to do too much with SGU. They tried to make a dark show much different than the other Stargates with more complex themes and characters, but so far, it isn’t working. I think if they had just stuck to the Stargate format of heroes and timely escapes, there would be a more positive response. The writers gambled on a much different kind of show and they’ll have to live with that.
Hm, but do they care? They’ve shot what there is to shoot for season 1 – writers are steaming ahead into season 2 (being creative *cough*) – when can they get into syndication? After season 3? Perhaps that’s the only goal.
And Robert you can’t leave now! I just missed the latest zizzling episode where young hot chick transfers back to earth to go clubbing, get drunk, and moan about her lousy ex-boyfriend whilst the ships intrepid commander Young uses the stones of magic to transfer back to another mans body on earth, then go to his wife and have sex with her – in said other mans body. You never saw that on Dallas! *g*
@Kermonk
You’re right, they don’t care, and that’s blindingly obvious. And you know, that’s fine. There will always be critics, some valid, some not valid, and I get that they can’t listen to every single thing every person with an internet connection says. It would be impossible, and, in the end, wouldn’t help anything.
But when there are a few select criticisms that are repeated over and over again, in fact, across multiple shows of the franchise, maybe the better response would be to step back and acknowledge that maybe there IS a problem rather than snapping back at the fans as delusional or just “not getting it”.
It broke my heart not to follow the Stargate franchise into its new incarnation, because I so loved SG1 and SGA, despite their flaws. However, Mr. Wright has made sure with his repeated belittling comments that I don’t feel that way anymore.
Even Michael Shanks (Daniel Jackson!) who had a cameo in the pilot and is appearing in some of this season’s later episodes seemed hard-pressed to find anything nice to say outside of speaking well of the cinematography and the actors:
http://girlmeetslightsaber.blogspot.com/2009/10/michael-shanks-talks-sgu-santuary-and.html
I read Mallozzi’s “rant” and I have to agree with him to a certain extent. Some of the fan comments have been extreme and downright ugly. However, there are problems with this series. I like SGU, but it has problems. Not the least of which is it’s depiction of women. Even with great female characters like Samantha Carter and Vala, the franchise has done a bad job of developing its female characters. One need only look at how the character of Dr. Weir was unceremoniously dropped and Teyla was never fully developed.
The recent episodes that featured rather gratuitous scenes of female anatomy were sexist no matter how Mallozzi and company want to justify it. Moreover, the female characters in general are utterly wasted. They have an exceptional actress like Ming-Na in their cast but more often than not she’s just pushed into the background. She could die on the next episode and it would mean nothing. That’s just bad writing.
Perhaps Wright and his team should stop trying to make excuses for their bad decision and get back to writing fun and exciting stories. Just because you’re making a darker, grittier Stargate doesn’t mean it can’t also be fun and exciting.
Wow, Robert, I hadn’t read that article! He really didn’t have much to say about it, did he? That’s kind of hilarious. Thanks for the link!
@Jimmy:
You’re absolutely right about Mallozzi’s condemnation of personal attacks against the actors. That is uncalled for and inappropriate, and if he had left it at that, I wouldn’t have thought another thing about it.
Sadly, he doesn’t leave it at that and he goes on (if I remember correctly) to once again essentially tell the disgruntled fans that they just don’t get it.
Most of the critical reviews I’ve read DO get it though, they just don’t LIKE it. Which is still a matter of personal opinion of course, but if that many reviewers are saying the same things, I’d think at some point, the producers of this show need to reevaluate what about their message (if they are indeed not trying to be juvenile and sexist) is not getting across.
@longtimegone
I think you missed Kermonk’s main point. It you read the Twitter/Facebook pages of the cast members you’ll see the show wrapped Season 1 already. As in every episode’s been filmed already so it’s beyond their capability to take criticism into account.
Don’t get me wrong, the producers do seem to have an unhealthy “self-love” thing going on. But they couldn’t change now even if they wanted to which is why they’re probably so vehement in defending the show as-is
@Tom
No, I got his point. I wasn’t actually arguing with his post so much as expanding on the idea that the producers don’t care. Sorry if that was unclear.
I know they can’t do anything about S1, but I just can’t help but think a better response to all this might be to lay low till the season is finished and then maybe acknowledge there were things they could have done better and work to resolve those issues if the show is picked up for a second season. I think I probably expect too much from the Stargate producers though, based on their history of reaction to fan criticism.
Well said Mo I agree with you 100 % and the comments that Brad left on your blog just confirms to me what kind of person he is that is him and JM. He just can’t stand the truth from a critic that isn’t gushing about his new show the truth hurts, he wouldn’t listen to the fans and look where that has got him.
I think I will start watching V. I have given up on SGU so maybe V will interest me only time will tell.
I like SGU and V..
@longtimegone
You are right, they do seem very arrogant about what they are doing – “we are right, you are wrong now buzz off” – but then they don’t seem to want those of us who have been with the show for years – now they are after new and fresh blood. Oh well.
Also, apparently those supposed ‘attacks’ were people posting messages to his blog which he didn’t approve? So the rest of us haven’t seen them…hm..
Anyway, right now they are spinning for season 2, ie, the writers are sitting together and coming up with ideas for new episodes – so if the public where to affect something, now would seem to be the time to be vocal.
Which presupposes of course that they are open to change.
Well, I liked SG1, SGA, and I really like SGU. I’m not sure yet, but I think it could be my favorite Stargate. V is good to, it even pushed me to buy all the old series because I was a fan when I was a kid.
Anyway, critics, I don’t even see why the producer of Stargate took the time to respond to it… Nobody cares about critics.
@Kermonk
While I have no doubt that there are crazy fans out there (like the ones that camped out in their car in front of Joe Flanigan’s house during Comic Con a few years ago), but I to am suspicious that these supposed attacks are vastly inflated so that Molazzi can react from a position of the moral high ground.
Oh yes, some fan comments are downright nasty, but a lot of fans have pointed out why they don’t like SGU. Twitter doesn’t allow for a lot of verbiage, so they make it short and sweet (or not so sweet).
Is Wright worried about ratings, cuz otherwise why respond to a critic who is doing her job? Hey, all TV shows get reviews – good, badg or ugly. Producers surely can’t be that thin-skinned??
Good for you jim
@Kermonk
Yeah, they made it pretty clear with the horrifically bad handling of the SGA cancellation, that long time viewers were not as important to them as new blood. And I totally understand that desire for new blood in the fanbase. Otherwise the shows won’t continue. However, in my opinion, they could have tried to bring in new viewers without so publically casting the old viewers aside. It genuinely makes me wonder what they were thinking to allow Brad Wright, Robert Cooper and others to say the things they did immediately post-SGA cancellation.
I honestly, at this point, don’t think they are open to any criticism, despite lip service that they are. They may prove me wrong, but their response seems to consistently be “It’s not sexist/racist/poorly plotted/badly executed/boring. You just don’t get it.” Which is not a response at all, and tells me, as a viewer that they are not interested in taking anything into consideration beyond their “vision” of what the show should be. A vision that is frequently sexist/racist/poorly plotted/badly executed/boring, and that applied to SG1 and SGA as well as, from what I can tell from reviews, SGU.
Alas, there are several other shows I’ve picked up this season, so aside from my irritation at this latest episode of “foot in mouth” by Wright, I’m focusing my energies on enjoying those.
@ longtimegone
Not to mention hetrosexist. The body swapping lesbian having sex with men thing went over like a brick with lesbians.
I think no small amount of the way Skiffy handles the Stargate showrunners has to do with how broken NBC/Universal is. Skiffy needs to produce pilots and NBC isn’t really letting them. So they turned to a group they could order a series from without going through the pilot stage. From my understanding the people at SyFy have had a lot of …. interpersonal problems with these producers. But the overall culture at NBC means they’re stuck.
SGU will probably be picked up for a second season, but I seem to remember that, back when SGA was in it’s next to last season, the then Scifi Channel had already announced that it had been renewed by this time that particular fall tv season. SGU may have acceptable ratings still, but it definitely has fallen each week, and that certainly must not make Syfy happy, or MGM, for that matter, who has its own problems. I know that Syfy has expressed the desire to expand its audience past just devoted scifi fans, but I suppose, short of the unscientific polls done on sites, there is no way to quantify whether SGU is losing audience across the board, or just the longtime fans. I suspect that its across the board.
I gotta hand it to ABC though, for a pair of decent sci/fi series to watch. With SGU putting me to sleep and Fringe looking dire, I need something to geek out on. I really want to like SGU though…
@Txlucky, hey there girl. In this case it isn’t the fans attacking each other, its the show runner of SGU attacking another scifi show. I agree there aren’t a lot of us so BW doesn’t garner any points with me for hitting on ‘V’, which unlike SGU, I watch.
@lainey
But they haven’t been losing that many viewers have they?
Oh no he didn’t! V is awesome! That is so low budget to try to bring someone else down, while trying to pick yourself up.
First, I think txlucky1 is absolutely right on spot with the obsession of fans to wage wars over their shows. It always seems that once someone finds a show they like, all others must be canceled immediately. I just don’t get it why people can not simply enjoy what they like, and simply ignore what they don’t
With that said, I think what has gotten to the producers of SGU is some of the criticism has really been outrageous and idiotic. As a result they have begun to simply knee jerk respond to everything, regardless of the critique. Some of their responses have been spot on, people act shocked that this show is NOT like the others, when they have been talking up this very aspect for over a year. Other complaints that should be considered though are sadly overwhelmed by the loudest, which are usually just the dumbest.
FYI, I did not care for V’s premiere, but will probably watch a few more episodes. But, I will absolutely not get too invested in any way as I believe strongly the chances this show makes it are about 0. It certainly does not help that this is just a remake of a bad 1980s series. At least if this was ground breaking new and original, then I would be more interested. Lost was new, V is not.
@Sam, I don’t understand how Mo Ryan making one comment about SGU in a critique about V became “the obsession of fans to wage wars over their shows”? I wasn’t aware that the ‘fans’ of V declared war on the ‘fans’ of SGU or vice versa. The only one ‘waging war’ here is the producer of SGU.
As for knee jerk responses to criticism, well, if you read Brad’s response, he states that the ratings are fine etc. so why respond at all? Why not just “laugh all the way to the bank”, as the old saying goes? I mean, if the show runners are that sensitive then I expect he’ll be coming after Robert next.
I think Brad Wright, as usual, should just not talk or comment publicly anymore. Every time he does he puts his foot in his mouth or insults fans of his previous shows.
It is Maureen Ryan’s job to be a critic, it’s what she does.
Wright and Mallozzi et al know that is the world they live in, write in, create in and should just accept reviews, both good and bad, with a modicum of good grace and less trollish snark.
Ummm, i keep on seeing the mobile version of the site on my browser and i continue to turn it off but it keeps coming back….. just so you know
Kyall, I did some more research and it seems the issue is between the plugin software and the caching software we use. I have now made the recommended changes to our caching software. Hopefully that will clear the problem for you.
And if you’re still having problems after that clear your browser cache. And if you’re still having problems after that, let me know. Thanks!
There is a large divide between complex and complicated, not a fine line. Complex is interesting. Complicated is confusing at best.
Unfortunately, SGU is not complex. It’s not complicated, either.
Instead, it’s just straightforward boring – and it’s a common problem lately that results in a lot of navel gazing or talking head debates about fictitious things. It’s made it’s way into some film scripts, too. I’m talking about agent submissions from which you could easily carve out 30 pages of exposition and lose nothing. Geez…
I blame this on three shows that I’m not mentioning due to their annoying fans.
It is not as if this is the first time one show took on another, it happens all the time.
What gratioutus showing of body parts. An actress with a nice set was shown wearing more than she would at the beach, t-shirt and running shorts. Now if they had been showing her doing a slow run, boobs boncing and caught on film.
So the Stargate Writers have a problem developing female parts, that doesn’t mean they are sexist. It’s not as if Hollywood as a whole is great at that job, at least according to many actresses.
SGU is worth defending against political accusations from some nasty woman in Chicago. SGU is not boring or sexist. None of the characters have been mistreated or stereotyped because of their sex. I have not fallen asleep during it yet, something which has happened during some eps of Atlantis and SG1.
And besides, V only has four episodes compared to SGUs full season. How boring will V get?
WHO CARES !!! I’M NOT PLANNING TO GO TO ANY CONVENTION FOR A TV SHOW EVER… JUST MORE DIE HARDS, DIEING HARD… BLAH…
WATCH GALAXY QUEST AND ENJOY YOUR LIFE PEOPLE, THE GENRE IS A JOKE !!!
Not to drag Smallville into everything, but that’s probably the best example of a cult show that’s successfully re-invented itself as “dark” and “mature”, without being gritty and sexualised. And because it never went all the way in S8, it can still do fun episodes, without the change being jarring.
I don’t really understand why they had completely change Stargate, from a pretty light hearted action series to some sort of intense character-based drama. The writers don’t have it in them to pull that transition off, and it completely limits the series in terms of what stories they can tell, and how long the over-all storyline can go on for.
I don’t mind the premise, but I think it would have been better if it wasn’t so intense and in your face, and was just SGA’s style but a bit more serious. Not Battlestar Galactica levels of doom, more like Lost.
I have no interest at all in V and the SGU pilot gave me motion sickness, so as someone who is a stan for neither of those shows, I am just gonna say that it is unsurprising to me that the Stargate producers have no class and are talking out of their asses yet again. It’s what they do best.
I really loved the humor and extreme campiness of SGA, but even that had huge race and gender issues and Wright and Malozzi have been asses about it since the dawn of time. Their favorite subject of of envy used to be BSG, but do a search replace on the show names and you’ve got same old, same old.
I really wanted to like SGU, and gave it 4 episodes. But how long can the crew’s only enemies be things like no supplies, mechanical failure, and planets that make people hallucinate? I’m not asking for constant action–far from it–and I sure don’t want it to become Star Trek Voyager–but you can’t build compelling 3-dimensional characters and relationships when the external plots are slow, dull, and often manufactured just to give the characters something to do. The best character stuff comes OUT of the external conflict, doesn’t exist at its expense.
I figure I’ll check back in on it 10 eps from now, and if it hasn’t moved forward yet, that’s it. I also hope it gets a bit darker, since so far the only “dark” aspect IMO has been the bleak premise.
@kermonk
Here are the latest ratings I could find, from the SGU board on Syfy.
Live+SD
Air Part 1/2 – 1.7 HH (2.3 Million viewers)
Air Part 3 – 1.8 HH (2.4 Million viewers)
Darkness – 1.6 HH rating (2.1 Million viewers)
[b]Light – 1.5 HH rating (2.0 Million viewers)
Water – 1.5 HH rating (2.0 Million viewers)
Live + 7
Air Part 1/2 – 2.0 HH (2.8 Million viewers)
Air Part 3 – 2.2 HH (3.0 Million viewers)
Darkness – 1.9 HH (2.6 Million viewers)
So, the show isn’t dropping like a stone, but when you are only getting 2 million viewers, which is a lot for Syfy, the downside is that any drop is somewhat significant, since you want to grow, not shrink, and the demo’s is shrinking-again, maybe not a huge amount, but when your numbers are small to start with, a small fraction is still important. However, the show will, probably get a second season. If it doesn’t establish itself by then, then Syfy will probably say “bye, bye.”
To all of you who gave up on SGU,
The last three episodes were some of the best episodes of any SG series. The female characters have been flashed out more and they’re starting to show great potential, especially TJ the medic.
Robert Carlyle has made Rush the best SG character in only 7 episodes.
RDA is in episode 7.
I plan on continuing to watch both V and SGU. I’m a female in my late 20’s, and the characterization of females on SGU doesn’t bother me in the least. If it bothers someone else, though…that’s fine. They don’t have to watch it.
For people who think Wright ‘unecessrily’ bought ‘V’ into the argument, you may be missing the context of Brad’s initial statement…
What happened was the reviewer decided to tag on a line about how bad SGU was at the end of a very praising article on the ‘V’ premiere.
Brad responded in kind. Although, I do have to wonder if it really was Mr Wright. Time will tell though.
What Ms. Ryan did by comparing two shows is not unusual, but the SGU creators reacting to the criticism so publicly, I think, is rather unusual. I am sure that they got tacky responses when they cancelled SGA. Those guys have, for the most part, made money from fans’ devotion to the SG franchise, but fandom is, obviously, a two-edged sword. “Fans” are passionate about the show, and that can be either for or against certain aspects of a show, or franchise. Consequently, it seems that the guys aren’t taking the “bad” very well right now. I think that it is a case, frankly, of the behind the scenes rumblings leaking out. When you produce a product for public consumption, it is a fine balancing act between your own creative impulses, and what works with your audience. If you have a character that your audience likes, and you still decide to off that character, and it affects your audience/viewership, that is not a good decision from a business standpoint. It also doesn’t set well if a creator disses his entire former cast by insinuating that their acting abilities weren’t up to the ability of a particular newer cast member, which also just recently happened. So, the creators of SG are suddenly shooting off their mouths, and consequently shooting themsleves in the foot. If I were MGM or Syfy, I think I would call them up, and in the words of a famous tv icon, tell them to “stifle” these reactions.
“For me, it’s like they’ve used none of what I loved about Stargate: SG1 and used many of the things I didn’t love about the later seasons of Battlestar Galactica.”
I agree about SGU, there isn’t much of the humor or chemistry between the characters that I liked in SG1.
I haven’t given up, but right now, I don’t care what happens to the characters.
I want to care. :/
I think BW needs to hire a PR person to speak for him.
Why are the producers spending all this time attacking criticism? They run the show, they can do whatever they want. Going after all these people makes them look like petty children. It’s pathetic.
Some fans don’t like your new show. Wah wah. That’s showbiz. Suck it up and get over it.
It’s time for a poster that has a pic of ‘Destiny’ and a caption of ‘I Want to Care’.
I wish people would quit mentioning BSG when discussing SGU. If SGU is attempting to emulate BSG they are failing badly. Even BSG’s worst episode, ‘Sine Qua Non’, is better than the best of SGU, so far. BSG had character development and drama but it worked because it was part of a compeling story. SGU seems to be trying to give us character drama without developing the characters first. And it is all happening amidst a bland story that lacks tension and surprises.
SGU may or may not please some people, but the last episode “earth” received great critic reviews.
http://tv.ign.com/articles/104/1043224p1.html
The Club scean in teh episode Earth was just bad – I mean BAD. This show is gonna go off the air with anyluck very soon.
BTW Hello again txlucky1 Long Time no See lol.
I have to admit that I misjudged the creative and producing powers behind the Stargate franchise. I thought the suits at Syfy were likely behind the very radical destruction that SG:U will be to the franchise. The truth may very well be the massive ego of those that put the show together and not the network that airs it.
Mo,
I read you earlier review and find you to be very much correct in what you have written. The pilot put me to sleep and Earth has still not been viewed completely for the same reason. SG:U is dark, dead, and extremely boring. This entire show is just terrible. The characters are unlikeable and the plot has been lifeless. I did see in Earth enough to think if the entire crew was somehow gated back to earth and some of the left over characters from Atlantis or SG1 were somehow gated to the Destiny I would not be sad at all and maybe even happy.
To the show lovers all I can say is enjoy it while you can because the new audience they have been writing for is yet to start viewing in large enough numbers while those of us (like me) that have followed the franchise from the days on Showtime and the fifteen years till now are going to eventually fade away leaving the audience too small the warrant another season.
Unfortunately, the eventual failure of SG:U will bring an end to science fiction shows on the new re branded Syfy Network. With Friday nights being the only time they air the genre now.
I completely agree with Mo ryan, I’m another one of those disappointed SGU fans!
I totally agree with TomKH when he says “The last three episodes were some of the best episodes of any SG series.” and most of all when he says “Robert Carlyle has made Rush the best SG character in only 7 episodes.”
It amazes me how chilish and petty the Stargate producers are. How unprofessional of Brad Wright to throw his toys out of the pram because you are doing your job, and while telling you off for critisizing his show he turns around and slams V.
Any respect I’ve had for these guys is long gone after their deplorable treatment of the SGA cancellation. They cancel a sucessful show and then diss the actors and then complain about how fans treat the SGU actors. Maybe Brad Wright and his fellow producers should take some of their own advise, and stop insulting fans because we don’t happen to like their new version of Stargate. We were told this new cast were better actors than the last so how is that not insulting to the actors that brought them to where they are now. Joseph Mallozzi rants on his blog about offending the actors because certain fans complained about their characters, yet his passive aggressive attitude to Joe Flanigan over the years has been deplorable, culminating in Mallozzie totally ignoring him in his farewell video to the show.
They obviously don’t like criticism from any direction, not their previous actors,their fanbase and now from actual critics. Instead they continue to bury their heads in the sand and ignore any critique of their work. This was evidenced in their treatment of fans in season 5 of SGA. Fans lamented for years that they wanted more character development and grittier stories on SGA, but it was always ignored. Fans complained about the dreadful inclusion of the Keller character but each time they complained the attitude of these guys was to give her more screentime.
SGU is not being critizised because it’s not SGA or SG1, its because it is a poorly executed show with shallow unlikeable characters and practically no plot. It’s not anymore realistic than previous shows or new and different. It’s just the same old rubbish these stale writers are dishing up in a different wrapping. Its not the actors who needed to be changed but the writers. SGA had an amazing talented cast who were mostly ignored but the difference between the SGA cast and the SGU cast is that the SGA actors rose above the writing. Their charisma and chemistry is what made SGA so enjoyable, not the writing or the storylines, but SGU doesn’t even have this. No one stands out in the SGU cast. Robert Carlyle is a wonderful dramatic actor and a character actor but he doesn’t bring that little extra to the writing that RDA and Joe Flanigan did. He doesn’t have the charisma of the previous lead actors.
But its not the SGU actors fault that they have been thrown into a badly written and sexist mess and this is what SGU is. It’s geared towards the fanboys and a predominantly male audience, so its not going to appeal to a mainstream audience, or garner the acclaim these producers so desparately seek. It’s not a good scifi show or even a good soap opera. It fails in both categories. Its filled with cliched steryotypical characters who have been thrown into forced situations to create drama, but bickering and back biting and gratuious sex don’t make a show work. There is no deep meaningful drama in SGU, far from it. It’s nothing but angsty unlikeable whiny characters who have no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Its sad to see the Franchise resort to such cheap tactics. I really wish they had kept the Stargate name out of SGU and not tarnished the franchise with this rubbish.
So any numbers for “Earth” yet? If the show dips below a 1.5 HH coverage rating, does that mean trouble?
::I watched every episode of SG1 and SGA ever made and I wanted to like SGU, but didn’t. For me, it’s like they’ve used none of what I loved about Stargate: SG1 and used many of the things I didn’t love about the later seasons of Battlestar Galactica.
This sums up perfectly how I (and many other sf fans) feel about the show.
Great post from Ryan, it shows how the producers of SGU have gone all Berman & Braga, and are starting to attack critics and fans for “not understanding their amazing vision”… That kind of behavior killed Star Trek and it seams that it is going to kill Stargate. It’s a sad day for SciFi fans everywhere indeed.
They dropped a Stargate on a different looking version of Galactica, upped the amount of annoying people (seriously can’t stand any of those characters) and ruined what I had hoped would be a fun show. The show is like a visual version of a headache.
It appears they modelled many characters after Brad Wright himself…no wonder he’s so testy when the show gets criticized.
Well here’s hoping he joins the unemployed ranks sooner rather then later.
It has to be said: the people involved in the Stargate franchise have no dignity.
From Brad Wright attacking V to Joe Mallozzi unscreening appalling comments about his actors/characters on his blog, and in the case of Joe Flanigan and Torri Higginson, openly criticising them through the nasty comments he let through.
They have no class at all.
Stargate Universe
- 1.626 million viewers
- 1.1/2 HH
- 0.7/2 A18-49
Sanctuary
- 1.420 million viewers
- 1.0/2 HH
- 0.5/2 A18-49
Maybe Brad saw the latest ratings?
@ ex stargate fan I agree with everything you said 110% I am also an ex SG fan. I did give it a try and it was not SG at all and you are right they should never put SG in the name.
@ A. says:
From Brad Wright attacking V to Joe Mallozzi unscreening appalling comments about his actors/characters on his blog, and in the case of Joe Flanigan and Torri Higginson, openly criticizing them through the nasty comments he let through.
I didn’t hear about this what exactly was said. I never go to JM blog it makes me nauseous all that butt kissing he never puts comments on there that he hasn’t screened. I know mine never made it LOL.
Correct me if I am wrong but when Scifi aired V the old episodes from the 80’s didn’t those episodes actually do better than the SGU episodes.
And then for the premiere of V to do better than the premiere of SGU hum maybe that was why BW was so upset a show that is over 20 years old does better than his new and improved SG show.
BTW I liked V from the 80’s and I liked the 1st few seasons of BSG and IMO BSG was way better than SGU.
As I was watching Friday (what I have come to think of as Stargate-BSG), I asked myself why? The only reason I could come up wiith was so that I could see RDA as Gen O’Neill.
I like many others wanted to like SG:U, but I do not. Even now I can only remember one characters’ name. Later, I read Mo’s review and the reaction of the producers. Mo nailed my own reactions.
BSG envy and a desire for worldly praise from Hollywood makes for some dish of sour grapes for the SG:U producers.. They have lost me as a viewer, but as I am not a randy 15 year old I doubt they care.
A lot of these comments are funny. How’s this for a defense of SGU:
It’s not SGA or SG-1. It’s not BSG either. The people running the show, the people who own the show, and the people who are in the show have been saying this for over a year. I don’t understand your criticisms on any of those counts – you’re clearly savvy enough to keep up with the news, did you just plug your ears and ignore what’s been reported for 15+ months?
Of course, I may be in the minority. I happen to think that any review that begins with, “Well, compared to x, y is…” are totally ridiculous. If you can’t write a review about the merits (or lack thereof) of anything (tv show, movie, video game, household cleaning product, 2012 apocalypse theory, etc) without comparing it, you don’t really come across as the unbiased critic, now do you? There’s a difference between “A is similar to B” or “B does ___ better than A” but when the critical reviews are, “Hey guys A isn’t B and so it’s no good,” I have no option but to laugh.
$0.02
@Pam, oh yeah, the reshowing of the V mini series and TV show was a ratings bonanza for Syfy and smart programming on their part.
Not seen the other SG’s but started off with SGU. It seemed good through the 3 part pilot but it’s fallen apart quickly. The characters are almost universally unlikeable and I’m sick of the soapsuds drama in particular the pitiful Colonel and his ex. I’m barely holding on mostly because a friend enjoys it and have some interest in the premise. Sadly the show has no where to go but up but if it keeps the soap nonsense at the forefront I’ll be gone and not look back.
As far as “sexism” I hadn’t noticed much. Sure compared to Flashforward or Defying Gravity, V or maybe even Warehouse 13 it would be seen that way but the men on those programs are like adolescent girlhood fanfic fantasies.
As far as V goes, we’re only one episode in but I think I prefer SGU to the new V as far as potential goes. I loved the original mini-series and am disappointed at some of the turns they’ve taken in this reinvention.
I DVR’d the last episode. I couldn’t bring myself to watch it. After episodes of – out of air, water, power, etc. Who cares. If it regains some creativity, maybe I’ll give it another shot.
@ ex stargate fan: I 1000% agree with EVERYTHING you said. In particular this part
“Its not the actors who needed to be changed but the writers. SGA had an amazing talented cast who were mostly ignored but the difference between the SGA cast and the SGU cast is that the SGA actors rose above the writing. Their charisma and chemistry is what made SGA so enjoyable, not the writing or the storylines, but SGU doesn’t even have this.”
You nailed it! SGA had such a great cast with incredible chemistry. Even the smaller part characters like Zelenka and Ellis (when he was there) added to the show. The core cast of Joe Flanigan, Rachel Luttrell, Jason Momoa, and Davd Hewlett could have gone on for 5 more seasons easily with the right writers.
SGA had good ratings IN SPITE of the writing, so I know with better writers they could have had 3 million viewers each week easy. It’s too bad that they were so willing to throw that all away.
@Robert Seidman: Thanks for the link to the Michael Shanks article. It’s great to see him doing well. He ended up having the same complaints about the show that many others do, but I could tell that because at least some of his bread is still buttered by Stargate, he couldn’t really say everything that he really thought.
@Cimmer – Thanks for the numbers.
And they really messed things up when they replaced Carson with Keller. They need to bring him back as a part of the main team if they do the movie. They can put her back at SGC, or I guess Homeworld Security or whatever. Even better, put her on one of the ships!
I can’t help but notice a strong correlation between SG and Star Trek. TNG had the same type of episodes we saw in Stargate: going to random star systems/planets and solving their issues. in DSN/Atlantis, we had a huge war with humans vs. Dominion/Wraith with life taking place mainly on a space station/city. Now we have Atlantis, which I guess should be appropriately compared to Voyager in which both series focused on trying to get the crew home while exploring an unknown part of space i.e. Delta Quadrant/7000000000 light years. That being said, I liked them all and I think people really need to chill out and stop slamming SGU when the season isn’t even over yet. If this keeps up, the SG creators may do the unthinkable and remake SG1 (think Star Trek Enterprise) and im pretty sure nobody wants that. Maybe they’ll even redo the movie muwahaha. *kidding*
But seriously, grow some patience and at the very least wait until the first season is over.
Wait…people can’t say a show sucks until they’ve watched an entire season? Seriously?
Did you miss that yesterday, Holly? At least it’s now being extended to critics, too.
This could have advantages though if it also applied to liking a show. No more “show X is the best show ever” posts for first season shows. No over the top excitement about a show’s premiere. Certainly less whining when things get low numbers….hmmm…
“Wait…people can’t say a show sucks until they’ve watched an entire season? Seriously?”
Not in this household. If a show doesn’t click (or goes off-track), it rarely gets further viewings. Doesn’t matter if it is the 1st episode or the season finale of season 5. That’s just the way it is here.
I’m going to have to say that V had more action in one episode than SGU has had so far this season. I loved SG1 and Atlantis, but SGU is so dang boring! Sure it has beautiful cinematic, but the only real action so far has been a bunch of guys banging a bunch of women. I’ll take some Goa’uld or Wraith over SGU Whores any day!
When SGU was proposed It was pretty obvious they were going in a very different direction. Robert Carlyle doesn’t do light and frothy and Luis Ferrera is no happy bunny either. Both in my view are quality actors and much as I love SG-1 and SGA none of those actors are in the same league.
Knowing that I adjusted my own perceptions and expectations. Stargate Galactica it may or may not be but is one of the reasons SGA was canned. My own feeling on it is that I am still watching. I am not entirely sure where it’s going or what this so-called “vision” is about but so far it hasn’t put me off. I am certainly happy to go to the end of the season before making up my mind on it. Credit in that respect goes to the writers and the good acting, although I am dubious about the need for regular gratuitous sex scenes. Inevitably comparisons with SGA/SG-1 will not help and that will leave people frustrated and disappointed.
I’ll have to check out that article today…
but I’ve argued all week to people that ABC is succeeding with SCI-FI shows because it is giving us watered down ideas. Watered down episodes. “Grey’s Anatomy in Space” type series’.
Yes, V is about aliens, Flash Forward is about mental time travel, and LOST is about a magic island that travels people in time, but they’re not exactly Deep Space Nine type series. 9/10 of the time they focus on the human interactions on the shows, not on the SCI-FI concept at their cores.
I love SGU. It’s replaced Smallville as the show I look forward to watching the most during Saturday morning hangovers. I think it gets better every week, and I like some of the ideas they promote (the ship getting its power from inside of a star was cool, I haven’t seen another show do that before).
I give V 2 seasons, then cancellation.
I give SGU 4.
(Oh and Sanctuary had their best episode ever last week. More like that, please!!!)
SGU is character driven, V is a comic book. The truth is … most of the viewing public does not want to be challenged or provoked to think, so comic books always win over serious fiction with the general public. It seems to me whenever an advertiser can reach 2 million people, a show is meeting that function. I know V had a huge audience but I knew where it was going before it went there: often on SGU I’m surprised.
American viewers want action and sex, not depth. That’s okay but those who prefer more character driven should not be discarded.
SGU is a character driven show with boring and shallow characters. What a failure of a combination.
How could you be surprised with the SGU plots? I have known what was going to happen with every episode from the start because they are so dang predictable. Air part 3 and water were pretty much the same dang episode, re-written. And Light, who saw that coming? I did about 5 minutes in. I watch sci-fi to escape reality, not to see the same damn drama we all experience in real life.
I agree that the characters are shallow. Give me an O’neal or a Shepherd any day. Eli is the only redeemable character so far. I hope that Young gets killed of soon. What an annoying character.
Well i have been watching the Stargate franchise from July 27, 1997 (1997-07-27)and the movie in 1994. Till the end of stargate sg1 in March 13, 2007 (2007-03-13)i have all the seasons so i am a big fan of them and i have been watching Stargate Atlantis from July 16, 2004 (2004-07-16) – January 9, 2009 (2009-01-09) and that had 5 really good seasons and now i have been watching Stargate Universe witch is a verry good show so i am in to this stuff and i find the show alot better than V. V is ok but i have been a Stargate fan longer from the start. so dont diss Stargate its better.
SGU is a “sucky” show! Not watchable! Should be canceled.
Stargate is not about sex, T&A, lesbians, inter-racial relationships and other sick and twisted soap opera like qualities. Stargate series was a FAMILY show – now I have to watch other things with my kids on Friday. Sad, really. Bad for SyFy which will lose eventually and good for SG1 and SGA as we will keep watching them via the web and add SGA to our already full SG1 disc collection.
SG1 and SGA were great and the people behind SGU have ruined the franchise.
Bring back SGA, even recreate SG1 with a new team but by all means I really hope SGU is canceled and every episode burned! SGU is a DISGRACE.
First it takes 2 to tango, Brad is at fault and so is Maureen. I think the Director/Producers comments were also aimed at some trolls who harassed one of the actors who has a twitter site. She baited him and he bit abd took the hook, she baits lots of people. One time she baited the cast and crew of Grey’s Anatomy by saying she would rather scalpel her face off than watch another epiosde…at least the cast and crew of Grey’s had the common sense not to respond to Maureen Ryan. Brad is at fault here but I don’t think all his comments were directed at all critics in general or Maureen like this Chicago blog suggests. This Maureen blog has little credibility anyway, blogs talk gossip and either fluff or bash general pop culture. This blog in particular it always prostituted itself to the amerian idols or elitist stuff like the battlestar remake. Long after fans switched off the tv and long after the ratings hit all time lows this maureen blog was still on syfy’s forums reading the bsg shipper threads and long after fans turned off their tv’s this blog was still a shill for bsg’s network marketers. Stargate didn’t need fake blogs to create fake buzz and at least is pulling better ratings and its story has not de-evoled into political mud slinging and the SGU story has not really divided its core audience. So far I think SGU might work but its way too premature to judge it a hit or a miss
This show is totally, totally crap. It needs new writers soon. All we get to see is slimy crying people having problems with their personal relationships, my god, we have soaps for that nonsense.
Yuk, sentimental blabla in space, I just don’t have the words to describe what a huge disappointment it is, rarely you see a show without ANY good points; they succeeded in that with SU.
Brrr, almost disgusting.