After finishing fourth among the four cable news networks for October, in the LA Times CNN chief Jon Klein says he’s in a completely different business than Fox News and MSNBC and shouldn’t be compared to them:
“No one expected us to deliver the same numbers this year as we did during the election,” Klein said this week.
Still, after crowing about its ratings victories last year, CNN is now in the awkward position of trying to explain why its declining audience is not an issue.
“We are not going to try to boost numbers during fallow news periods by running cartoons, as our competitors do,” Klein said. “We’re going to cover the news and we’ll attract an ever more loyal audience as the result of it.”
“They are in a completely different business than we are,” he added. “We are not putting out the same product as they are. And we shouldn’t be compared to them on that account.”
Rival executives scoff at that assertion. Newscasts dominate the daytime lineup of MSNBC and Fox News, whose Bret Baier and Shepard Smith anchor news programs that ranked among the top five most-watched cable shows in October.
“Jon’s correct: It’s unfair to compare CNN to Fox News,” said Fox News spokeswoman Dana Klinghoffer. “Based on his network’s dismal ratings, it’s more accurate to compare CNN to the G4 channel.”
So, if CNN’s not to be compared to the cable news networks that are beating it in the ratings, who are its current ratings peers?
During Primetime in October (Live+SD):
Average Viewership (000s)
| MSNBC | 699 |
| VH1 | 682 |
| CNN | 664 |
| MTV | 664 |
| E! | 618 |
-
Adults 25-54 (000s)
| Nat. Geo. | 193 |
| Soap Opera | 193 |
| CNN | 186 |
| CMT | 186 |
| Oxygen | 186 |
-
During Total Day in October (Live+SD):
Average Viewership (000s)
| Travel | 514 |
| TLC | 504 |
| CNN | 481 |
| AMC | 480 |
| BET | 416 |
Adults 25-54 (000s)
| Animal Planet | 147 |
| Headline | 144 |
| CNN | 141 |
| MSNBC | 131 |
| CMT | 123 |
-
While it continues to not be clear who Jon Klein wants to be compared to, the networks above were CNN’s ratings peers in October.
Why does CNN have to be compared with anyone?
They’re getting beat by MSNBC and Animal Planet, that’s funny.
What’s the point of ratings if you don’t have anything to compare it to – if everything got 100 million viewers, then 100 million viewers isn’t very good… if you don’t know what’s comparable for ratings, whether it’s cable news or primetime, no one would know what people prefer to watch. If you don’t want people to care about what people prefer to watch, then that’s another thing
Still something like CNN is shown and respected throughout most of the world where as something like say foxnews is only seen by backwards americans
No body likes fox news. everyone watches to see what new trash comes out of there mouths
CNN is comparable to a blend of several channels named above with a MSNBC-lite overdub throughout. In the morning CNN is like a BET newsroom, in primetime it has its own Soap Opera drama queen (Anderson Cooper). Jeanne Moos’s bits are CNN meets E! Christianne Amanpour brings the worst in Mideast Travel (you wouldn’t want to go there after her specials). What CNN needs badly at this juncture is a good intake of *Oxygen*.
“We are not going to try to boost numbers during fallow news periods by running cartoons, as our competitors do,” Klein said.
So CNN puts themselfs up against the Cartoon Network?
Any numbers for the cartoon network? Do they beat CNN?
No body likes fox news? LMAO
Bill or Robert: Does Nielsen release the key 18-49 demo for the news networks? It’s interesting to see the 25-54s and 35-64s, but it seems that while 18-49 is the favored demo for non-kids channels, I never see it with news ratings.
Wow, they’re just tied with MTV. That’s kind of funny.
Bottom line…FoxNews is the number 1 cable news network in the U.S. CNN is number 4. Ratings are rating. As far as international new sources…in Europe…the BBC is typically the most respected news source. In the Middle East and other Arabic regions, Al Jazeera is the most respected news source.
Americans think that they are the center of the world and what they like is what the world likes. Not true…most people could care less about our news programming and other sources of entertainment. China, India, Russia, and the EU all have their own viewpoints and are attracted to similar tastes. Just like the American public. And right now, the American public has a strong taste for the programming on FoxNews.
As for the ratings, FoxNews has programs that appeal to more people than CNN or MSNBC. The majority of Americans picture themselves as moderate conservatives. (Mostly is the fiscal conservative group).
CNN competes directly with Foxnews and MSNBC. When their ratings were higher…they pointed that out clearly in prior statements. I love how companies and politicians try to erase prior statements when it no longer suites them.
As far as global reach…CNN, FoxNews, and MSNBC are just one news outlet out of a pool of hundreds across the globe. People watch what they want to watch and who they trust as a reliable news source.
However, most people still prefer their local news outlets over the big network news companies anyways.
It’s currently more like Fox News and MSNBC. If CNN was a newschannel, it would be comparable the BBC World News, France 24, and CNN International.
i think the whole problem in a nutshell is, right now CNN can’t decide exactly what it is or what it wants to be…
Craig, your post was quite entertaining – I love when people think things in their head, and assume they’re facts.
Remember, ratings doesn’t mean quality.
I check out the news on the web. CNN.com and BBC.co.uk are my two main sites (and I’m Canadian).
I wonder how CNN does in comparison to FoxNews for people who use the web to access news.
Dear CNN:
Thanks for acting like you’re peerless and without bias, while combining the liberal slant of MSNBC with the excitement of watching paint dry. This sort of honest self-assessment can only help the quality of your programming.
Verily,
A News Corp. shareholder
@Craig
Very well put
@anom
What did Craig say that wasn’t fact? Its a FACT that most Americans are conservative.
@just
Stop making lame excuse to explain Fox’s ratings away. Quality is an opinion.
I agree Copasetic. Fox clearly is tabloid journalism. The paranoid right has gone so far off the deep end that when anyone DARES offer warranted critism they shriek evil biased liberals. Rather than answering questions they shoot the messenger much like children when they don’t ge their way. No matter how many flags they put on their screen, Fox starts out with a bias. Fox finally admitted it:
http://akwag.blogspot.com/2009/10/finally-fox-news-admits-it-isnt-really.html
It makes for great Must Shriek TV. Brilliant TV model. My hats off to Murdoch.
MSNBC, laughably, wants to have a foot in both doors. Hard news and commentary. They really cancel one another out.
I would if presssed compare CNN to hard news of yesterday like Murrow and Cronkite.
I flipped through all three channels often. The other day? CNN was covering Health Care, MSNBC was discussing the Stock Market, and FOX actually had a story on UFO’s and no it wasn’t the balloon boy.
With hyperbolic stories like Death panels, The President not being American, “freedoms being taken away,” you know the talking points, I’d say it took cajones for CNN to let it be known that they don’t want to be compared to the ratings juggernaut that is FOX news.
Mr. Klein needs to be a bit more careful about how he phrases his protests. The Cartoon Network comparison (as one poster above offered) is an accidental inspiration that I’m sure Mr. Klein wasn’t trying to equate to CNN. His goof. Better luck next time.
As for comparisons… well, he, Fox, MSNBC, and others are in the business of information delivery regarding current events. That’s the baseline, I think, for comparison. Whether that delivery is with a news reader and taped stories, presented in the form of show tunes, delivered by nude people (I seem to recall a few television stations somewhere did that — might even still be doing that for all I know), or read by an auctioneer, it doesn’t really matter.
I will admit to some amusement that CMT, Soap Opera, and Animal Planet are either tied or above CNN in ratings. I will also admit that I would be equally amused if Fox or MSNBC were in the same predicament.
I think what CNN is trying to say is that they think of themselves as the New York Times and as FoxNews/MSNBC as the National Inquirer. Who cares if the NI has a higher readership they’re playing a different game. There are things that the other networks do during slow news periods that CNN could do to increase their ratings but CNN chooses not too because it believes that during periods of high interest news it will once again be the predominant source of cable news for most Americans. They believe sinking to low brow commentary will hurt their buisness during high interest news periods despite the short term gains. Of course that doesn’t explain Lou Dobbs, but he’s still a far cry from Glenn Beck.
CNN is nothing more than a mouthpiece for the Obama administration. (Or any democrat administration as far as that goes) They get their talking points straight from the White House. It’s hard to compare them to anyone. They cover the uber liberal position just like abc,cbs,nbc,msnbc,cnbc,pbs. I guess their competition would be with msnbc,cnbc, and the other major networks. They compete with who can regurgitate the company line the quickest. It doesn’t really matter though since they are all just state run like Pravda was.
If CNN is 4th, behind Fox News and MSNBC, who is the third? I honestly can’t think of any other news channels. They’re not talking about HLN are they? That’s about as newsy as E!.
allen…
but hey…
HLN has joy behar!!!!
hahahahahahahahahaha…
It was stated by one poster that only “backwards Americans” watch Fox news, yet I notice that Fox news is on more and more television monitors in major airports throughout the world.
It would be interesting to me to see what the world wide ratings are.
Personally, I don’t watch a lot of TV, but I do watch them all from time to time
@Ben Duffy, “Bill or Robert: Does Nielsen release the key 18-49 demo for the news networks? It’s interesting to see the 25-54s and 35-64s, but it seems that while 18-49 is the favored demo for non-kids channels, I never see it with news ratings.”
The advertiser target demo for TV news (broadcast and cable) is adults 25-54. That’s why that demo is typically shown when talking about news ratings.
Adults 18-49 is the broadest demo targeted by broadcast primetime (although plenty of others are valuable), outside of broadcast primetime *lots* of different age/gender demo groups get targeted by different cable nets or broadcast dayparts.
Allen, yes in October HLN was #3 in primetime for cable news networks.
What a joke of a post Bill. It’s coming through
@JC – The comment I made is a frequent one made on this site. And I wasn’t using it to explain away Fox’s ratings, but to say that low ratings for CNN doesn’t mean it is low quality and that some people access news in different ways. I don’t watch CNN, it’s boring, but I do get my news from their website. Editorial style news coverage is more interesting to watch, but I don’t read through editorial style news articles for facts.
i’d be interested also to see the worldwide ratings if theirs one thing we americans do more than the rest of the world its watch tv with the exception of china of course but i’d like to see average veiwer ship between the bbc and fox news
This is like how politicians discredit elections when they don’t go their way but proclaim them as important when they do. If CNN was more popular than FNC, you know they’d be screaming that fact from the mountain tops.
It is time for CNN to do a course correction. Click on my name for my proposal.
CNN for liberals, by liberals
What planet have most of you been on? (I mean all of those wingnuts who claim CNN is liberal?) If anything, CNN has gone steadily downhill the last few years because they initially tried to do everything to cover Fox News until MSNBC began to pull viewers away thanks to Keith Olbermann et al. CNN still gives way too much airtime to right wing wackos spouting off lies and distortion without making any attempts to call them out to verify their alleged claims. But their biggest problem now is that they don’t know what direction they want to go. They rely way too much on i-Reports and Facebook/Twitter comments, and while I understand that they want to make their broadcasts more interactive with their viewers, they don’t provide enough context with their news stories to make those tweets have any value.
The only time CNN rises to any viewership is when there is actual breaking news of significant importance, such as natural disasters, acute war battles, sudden violent events (such as the Fort Hood tragedy or the Virginia Tech shooting) or other major breaking news stories (Michael Jackson), because they can rely on their strength or actually presenting straight news without any partisan filters. Fox News can’t do this nearly as well because they’re actually an op-ed channel for conservatives. MSNBC is slightly better at this, but if there are any truly noteworthy breaking news stories of any great importance, it will be shipped off to the mother network, NBC.
It is time to stop blaming the “liberalism” of CNN and start looking at the talent. Please release the stutterers like Don Lemon and Anderson Cooper. I have no prejudice against stutterers, but this is not acceptable in television news. Release the people who speak before they check their words: the Cuban guy on the weekends (well, that is how he markets himself) and Lou Dobbs, just to name the two that come immediately to mind. Release the eye-rollers and the ones of pursed lips; we viewers already have our opinions, we do not need the anchors’ catty personal opinions. GIVE US BACK CNN. Get rid of Jon Klein. I am not a fan of Fox, but I think Shephard Smith is the way to go. That is, if you cannot find anymore true professionals.
It’s not “blaming liberals.” It’s a fact that CNN not only leans left but has fallen over in that direction. The point is that there is way too much competition for liberals, that’s why CNN’s ratings are so low. If you a far left wing fanatical nut job you can watch cnn or abc, or msnbc or cnbc or nbc or cbs or pbs. If you want to watch anti liberty, anti freedom, anti democracy news you have so many options. If you’re an independent or lean right your only choice to hear your point of view is Fox.
So…. exactly how does CNNs ratings compare to G4? LOL!
I am a Democrat and I now watch Fox News religiously. When the GOP was in power, it was more entertaining to watch Olbermann and CNN liberal pundits because they pick apart the party in power. When Obama won the election the liberal pundits lose their appeal because who wants to watch those commentators praise the liberal party in power. For me, it is always more entertaining to watch an opposing opinion.
Why watch Olbermann pat some Dem on the back when I can watch Glenn Beck cry and compare Obama to Stalin. It still doesn’t change my views, but it is far more entertaining. And that’s what CNN is lacking. There is no program on CNN that is ‘must see tv’ unlike Fox who has established personalities (love em or hate em) like Beck, Hannity and O’Reilly.
Here is another thing that no one has mentioned. The female anchors on Fox are VERY attractive. From a stictly marketing perspective would you rather watch Wolf Blitzer who is a competent news man or Laurie Dhue who is equally competent but easy on the eyes (no offense Wolf). Fox has a clear strategy of what it wants to be and how it wants to do it. CNN lately is like a rudderless ship bobbing aimlessly through calm seas.
CNN is more dispicable then MSNBC, they clain to be unbiaesed but really they get their thrill up their legs the same as MSOBC. If you want to be liberal thats fine but dont hide it under hard news. FOX has excellent hard news and excellant opinion.
“We are not going to try to boost numbers during fallow news periods by running cartoons …”
Right. You’re more interested in serious journalism. Like fact checking Saturday Night Live skits and panicking when the coast guard performs training exercises.
The problem with CNN is that they aspire to BBC standards (which they used to meet), but as msnbc/fox tabloid style news has risen and beat them in the ratings, their execs have taken cues from fox and msnbc and added more of a slant and opinion to their news with lou dobbs and others. they are now stuck in a middle ground where they don’t do pure news as well BBC and they don’t do tabloid as well as fox or msnbc. Their pure news ideal has also suffered much more from the internet than either msnbc or fox, as sources for news are ubiquitous. Their ratings slump is more related to the death of newspapers than to ratings trouble for a TV channel.
CNN threw in with the ultra libs and Obama early on. It was a huge mistake. No credibility, no ratings. Once viewers sense you’ve sold out, they don’t come back.
Come on, was that last comment from fox news necessary? Talk about kicking a guy when he is down
Rob
FT. Hood was a tabloid news story? The Health Care vote was a tabloid story?
Do I get the impression that liberals want to dictate what is news and what isn’t. An dif it doesn’t meet their standard they will declare it tabloid.
I guess you guys miss Pravda if you are declaring the BBC as the gold standard of journalism.
I can understand where CNN is coming from. That said, I do think they’re comparable with MSNBC, which is a news channel, and which does try to reflect a diversity of views – Joe Scarborough on the far right, Chris Matthews on the center-right (yeah, he went Obama this time, but he preferred Fred Thompson, and voted Bush in both previous elections), and Olbermann and Maddow on the center-left.
The idea there’s some kind of group of highly partisan channels, and Fox is one and MSNBC is the other, is fairly ridiculous. Fox is its own thing (Political/current affairs entertainment with a far right twist?), MSNBC is its own thing but largely a news channel, and
CNN is a bona-fide news channel, albeit one with many areas to criticize.
In the end, with one channel giving up on “real” news, and another carving out a niche, it’s hard to make direct comparisons, so I can see where CNN is coming from, but ultimately it’s a station reasonable people depend upon for news, as is MSNBC. It can’t ignore that just because MSNBC is trying different things to keep its audience share up.
@Sqiug
???
I think you’re living in fantasy land. Is comparing tea party goers to a sexual act balance? Is deliberately editing a video of a black NRA memeber to make protesters look racist balanced? Is laughing at a person who got hit his finger bitten by an SEIU thug balanced?
I think the comment was more of a reality check. As recently as October, CNN ran commercials about it being #1. They probably were some day and time when covering Michael Jackson’s death.
squiqqle slash== Olbermann and Maddow center left–you have got to be kidding. They are so far left you can’t see them anymore!! I believe that was the silliest statement I have seen here in a long time and there are lots of silly comments.
Let’s face it, FOX has better personalities throughout the whole network, love or hate them, it is the truth, the other 2 cable news networks don’t cpmpare, if Oberbite, Matthews and Madcow are it, then you have problems, as for CNN, they are boring, they have nothing.
quoting gdb, “critism they shriek evil biased liberals”.. Only people I see shrieking are you and the rest of the libs who are the most vile and vicious of name callers. Bring it!
Right now FNC is doing live coverage of ceremonies in Berlin, Germany, of the 20th anniversary of the Fall of the Berlin Wall. The other channels didn’t even show Obama’s message delivered to the crowd in Berlin. I guess that day in 1989 was a sad moment for the left.
I wonder what Glenn Beck has to say about the house passing health care reform 220-215.
well here outside the US, CNN is still respected but most of us watch either BBC World or CNN International. CNN is too focused on the political side. They must realize that there is more to the world than just politics. Im sure there was a hurricane in the Gulf for a few days and what did they cover. Politics. They only cover stories outside of politics when it directly affects them. As for the other 2. We dont watch fox news we only watch it for O reilly boi doesnt he go crazy sumtimes or what? lol Anyways on MSNBC we dont watch it period because I find them too slow in breaking news and that should not be when your mother network is NBC which is one of the most reliable news sources out there. In conclusion, i think the era of broad international views in the US is fading and the more central domestic views are welcomed now so MSNBC and FOX maybe ahead now but maybe CNN will find its way out of the gutter
kev0170, just curious, you say you live outside the U.S. What country do you live in?
Barbados
Chris Matthews “center right?” Bwahahahaha!!!! The guy actually said he “got a tingle up his leg” when he saw Obama. He makes Stalin, Chairman Mao, and Castro seem center right.
@ derrick
They watch fox just to see what new trash comes out of their mouths…..so how come they don’t watch cnn or msnbc ?
They may call Fox a dog but, at least they call them.
In fact, here is the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no9fpKVXxCc
@tumbleweeds
I hear Howard Dean’s scream everytime i see that video….classic.
Fox Rules!!
That’s the bias of MSNBC for ya, hilarious.
I am 100% with Carl. I watch Fox News like I watch a car wreck on the interstate. I find their blatant degeneration of the facts fascinating. It’s such a freak show that I can’t stop tuning in. Yes, there is also the “babe” factor that no other cable news (and I use the word “news” loosely) can match.
Here is how one highly regarded media analyst defines the Fox News phenomenon – “Their search for higher ratings led the network towards tawdry and provocative topics, becoming more and more successful as it became more and more obscene.” Actually, I took a page from the FOX News producers and twisted the facts. That was a quote taken from a Wiki definition THE JERRY SPRINGER SHOW which rose to the top rated daytime talk show in the U.S back in 1998. It even beat Oprah in the ratings for god sakes! Come on; are ratings a true badge of honor or is it just an indication that we are fascinated with the dysfunctional? Remember, the Morton Downey Jr. Show started the right wing trash talking movement back in the 1980’s. His show eventually evaporated and was replaced by Limbaugh. I predict that the fascination with FOX News will soon evaporate too. I am already bored with Beck and his smarmy sarcastic drama. It’s not even provocative entertainment anymore. However, I am sure the paranoid right will always be loyal to the idiot box. It makes them feel relevant.
FYI – This is fun to watch too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRSZiWwiBuE
CNN’s chickens are coming home to roost. The biggest problem CNN has is it is too slow to pick up on stories that doesn’t fit it’s agenda. Their attempt to ignore stories in hopes it will simply go away is just poor journalism.
While they will travel far and wide to report on 3 Code Pink protesters standing in the back of some obscure committee conference and put their cause in a positive light, they hardly reported on thousands of Tea Party protesters and even when they did it was with contempt.
They dug their own grave.