Not that this is a surprise, especially after it was scrapped during November Sweeps (and OK, the dismal ratings). The far bigger surprise is the announcement comes about 6 months later than we expected it. I am sad on multiple levels that Dollhouse has been canceled.
“Dollhouse” is closing its doors at Fox.
The network has canceled Joss Whedon’s cult fave, which in May beat the odds with a second-season pickup despite low ratings.
The sci-fi series, which is filming episode 11, is expected to finish its 13-episode order.
After some dismal performance this fall, despite the ratings bumps “Dollhouse” got from DVR viewing, Fox benched the show for the November sweep after four episodes.
The fate of the remaining episodes is still unknown.
Update: The Wrap’s Joe Adalian reports that the December 4 episode will air as planned. The Futon Critic suggests that the show’s future is not set in stone, and that FOX is stressing it has only capped the order at 13 episodes and has not determined the show’s future (they have since updated the post in a way suggesting they were just getting spin from the network and that it has been canceled).
However, banishing it from November Sweeps (on a Friday, no less) and capping the episode order at 13 episodes usually means canceled. For now, I’m sticking with THR’s “Dollhouse Canceled” and interpreting it the same way as they are. No additional episodes ordered now means no additional episodes ordered period. We’ll see…
Another update: Via Mo Tancharoen: Yes. Cancelled. Sad but true.
Here is the current schedule for Dollhouse episodes (tentative as always):
oh boys, this will be a looong post.
WTF , is that it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I refuse to believe it until FOX officially announces it. The bastard execs killed the show before the first season ever started, what with a Friday slot and all.
And somehow i am not as upset as when Angel was cancelled. Now that hurt. I was depressed that weekend.
I am surprised actually. I figured they would just burn off the remaining episodes this season and just not renew it in the spring as to try and not upset Whedon fans that much.
Time has [finally] run out.
i was just refreshing after reading about CW mondays time-swap and i am sincerely upset. Robert- remember our bet before it was renewed last season that if it wasm you had to provide Greeks ratings lol, any chance on giving me the season 3 finales?:D
Wow 3 shows cancelled in 2 days!!!
Up side? Maybe we’ll get a Blu-Ray season 2 box earlier.
will fox air all 13 episodes or not??
Haha, finally. But waqaay too late.
Damn she looks hot in that pic. I’m sorry to see the show go, how about a Faith spinoff? With all the vampire shows doing so well now another wouldn’t hurt.
Such crap…Dollhouse was just expanding…the show is great. Not sure why people are against it. Plus Fox has nothing to replace it with at the time….except for reruns of whatever other show is out there right now…probably family guy or something.
Looking forward to the JBF post
Can’t say this is a surprise ratings wise and in terms of quality I can’t say that I’m very disappointed.
What about ‘Til Death and Brothers?
Eh, a very good cast have tried their hardest with a skeevy concept and patchy writing. It’s not surprising that the show’s turned off viewers.
And before anyone bleats about FOX’s advertising and marketing. The fact is the show’s viewing figures fell throughout the FIRST season and continued FALLING after the ‘legendary’ sixth episode.
Whedon needs to pony up and take his share of the blame, but I doubt he will.
Shame for Dushku, Lennix, Williams, and et al though.
Bingo cards are filling up all over the place today!
Well, if they’re going to let it finish making the episodes, then they’ll broadcast those episodes at some point. Accountants running the nets, right?
It’s just a question of when. If not this winter, I imagine in the Summer, perhaps June/May.
AAAAAAAAAAAH Eastwick no closure, GG super hiatus,Hank cancelled,dollhouse cancelled wanna bet on what time w will get the three rivers cancellation today
So are they showing the rest of the season or not? Kind of ambiguous there.
If they were going to show the entire season, I would have expected them to make the final decision after the last episode aired, even if it was improbable that ratings would climb back up.
Oh well. Wasn’t holding out for an S3, so only surprised about the timing of the decision, not the decision itself.
Too bad. The show had such potential. With an actor in the lead role that could act, show might have had a chance.
Not surprising in the least. Only relevant questions are:
Will production of all 13 episodes finish, such that Whedon gives us Epitaph Two?
Will all the episodes air on TV?
(Frankly, that they get made is the important thing, not the medium (TV/DVD/internet) they air on.)
Ausiello says Fox will still burn off the remaining episodes starting in December.
Tom, says in the THRfeed post that the remaining episodes will be completed. So Whedon gets to write a finale for the episodes if he wants.
I have no words. Or exclamation points.
(Except for these ones!!)
I do not believe . . . .I do not believe . .. I do not believe . . . I do not believe . . . does not compute . . . error . . . error . . . error .. . son of a FOX . . . . no. no.
no.
More later — if my heart hasn’t given out . . . .
Dollhouse? Dollhouse? Dollhouse?
screw fox
Not surprised, but I thought they said they’d wait to make a decision. I really hope they don’t make us wait for the DVD to come out.
Bingo card at the ready…
Let the exasperated freaking out begin!
@Tar:
You’re right, the writing has been on the wall for these shows for so long that I’ve actually forgotten they announced all these in the last 48 hours. Bets as to when we see the remaining:
Brothers (A week or two)
Three Rivers (Not until late November)
Today must be cancellation day.
Please find Eliza Dushku work!
Not unexpected. Still disappointed but certainly not surprised. I do hope they air them at least in December because I really don’t want to have to wait for the DVD.
I really would love to see Joss move to cable where ratings expectations are not the same as broadcast. Not with Dollhouse mind you, but a new creation.
John says at November 11, 2009 at 12:43 pm:
“I refuse to believe it until FOX officially announces it.”
Will you believe it after it no longer appears on television (excluding November, of course)?
FutonCritic is saying Fox is stressing the show has not been canceled and no decision will be made until next year (2010).
“Too bad. The show had such potential. With an actor in the lead role that could act, show might have had a chance.”
Dushku wasn’t the problem, crappy writing and a concept that turned viewers off (FOX forced Whedon to dial the sex back, which shows they did know SOMETHING).
Bionic Woman – killed by angry lynch mob
Journeyman – peacefully in its sleep
T:SCC – committed suicide
Dollhouse – wasn’t viable.
Fringe – life support, may not be human
V – on trial, awaiting sentencing
Are we seeing the death of science fiction on Network TV?
“Today must be cancellation day.
Please find Eliza Dushku work!”
Agreed. But this is partially her fault for attaching herself to Whedon’s bandwagon and believing his hype.
How come Joss Whedon could never make it a great show ?
“Not ordering more episodes” is the new cancellation
squiggleslash- there still flashforward and canada’s Being Erica
A fanbase that calls people who don’t want to watch their program ’stupid’ etc is always a great selling point too.
Brad’s right: http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news.aspx?date=11/11/09&id=8381
Y’know, that makes more sense. They cap the season at 13 (and nobody expected anything else) – that IS a decision they’d make now, there’s no reason to make a decision about an S3 until all 13 have been shown, however improbable it is that the ratings will turn around.
about time, FOX always cancels my favorite shows when they get bad ratings but when a show i dislike gets bad ratings they get to stay, so i couldnt care less about this
Well all you hormonal boys will have to stare at some other hot chick who can’t act I guess. Megan Fox is still available I think……
“Today must be cancellation day.
Please find Eliza Dushku work!”
“Agreed. But this is partially her fault for attaching herself to Whedon’s bandwagon and believing his hype.”
I have to agree with both of you guys. Eliza is the one who needs to find work and hopefully this time its on something that sticks. She’s got too much talent to be out of work.
I doubt we’ll get a third season…but who thought we would get a second? Go Dollhouse!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111111111111111111111
Revive TSCC
come on CW or Syfy, don’t let us down
“Revive TSCC”
Please god no. This badly-written soap opera made Whedon look like Dickens and Twain.
The reason that “Dollhouse” is canceled is because its fans failed to conduct a skywriting campaign.
Lol, Dushku has about as much talent as Stallone *g* (ie, very narrow)
Anyway, this is just a ruse, they’ll announce season 3 in January just to mess with you
And over at Whedonesque, The End of Good Television Forever is being mourned as we speak.
But strangely, I don’t see anybody saying “Hey, guess Seidman was right after all.”
Not a reality-based community, at the best of times.
XFever, Joss Whedon is a great writer. It’s just that even when Fox left him alone, the premise just didn’t work. Personally, I think Nick C is right, Joss and Eliza should have gone to Fox and pitched Faith The Vampire Slayer. Why? Because vampires = ratings.
Futon Critic has now amended their story to say that it is, indeed, cancelled. I’m sorry, guys:
http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news.aspx?date=11/11/09&id=8381
I was beyond shocked when I heard it got picked up for season two. This is not at all surprising.
Variety says that Whedon was preparing a Twitter announcement of the cancellation for this afternoon – http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118011179.html
Brad, c’mon. It’s over, and it’s BEEN over ever since they pulled it from sweeps. It was over when they renewed it last season, because that was obviously just done so that they could say “We renewed it.” So it ends up with maybe 23 episodes–which amounts to one season. Which failed from start to finish. FOX lost money–and Whedon lost his last excuse–they let it run a lot longer than Firefly, and the ratings KEPT GOING DOWN.
To the Attic it goes. Well it was fun while it lasted.
Yeah, why am I not surprised Whedon twitters?
What happened to to Fox standing firm and having their “No Cancellation Fall Season”? I guess this means the pissing contest is over, and Three Rivers will be axed within the next three days.
“And over at Whedonesque, The End of Good Television Forever is being mourned as we speak.
But strangely, I don’t see anybody saying “Hey, guess Seidman was right after all.”
Not a reality-based community, at the best of times.”
Heh, truth.
“XFever, Joss Whedon is a great writer. It’s just that even when Fox left him alone, the premise just didn’t work. ”
And which genius came up with the premise?
And it was the sex that turned many people off, and Whedon wanted MORE sex.
squiggleslash, we are indeed seeing the death of science fiction on network television–due to lame ideas, crappy scripts, and poor casting.
But if it makes you feel any better, network television itself is dying as well.
i love dollhouse, sad to see the show go
and wow, at lot of cancellation this week.
next stop, probably “three rivers” ???
XFever, it wasn’t the sex that turned people off.
It was the nature of said sex, combined with the fact that the people having it had the chemistry of laundry lint.
Face it, far more complex, challenging, and ‘adult material’ shows are doing fantastic ratings. True Blood is practically ALL sex, and it’s growing by leaps and bounds.
Whedon doesn’t know how to do science fiction, and face it–he was a one hit wonder from the start. Bad idea, bad execution, bad casting, bad show. You don’t need any more explanation than that.
What a long, strange trip it’s been…
@the128boy: indeed.
A great tweet! Literal LOL!
http://twitter.com/Syfy/status/5628959045
“Looks like Fox finally canceled Dollhouse. (No, I don’t think we’ll pick it up.)”
Maybe some will believe a writer on the show who is Joss’s sister-in-law?
http://twitter.com/MoTancharoen/status/5629791760
Mo Tancharoen confirms cancellation:
http://twitter.com/MoTancharoen/status/5629791760
Harold, that tweet gets my vote for Quote of the Day, lol. Hilarious!
I would have gladly traded this whole season of Dollhouse for a third season of TSCC.
Then again, Joss Whedon probably would have, too.
http://twitter.com/alanastone
As a huge Whedon fan who only continued to watch this terrible show out of slavish devotion to the man, I feel I am finally FREE! Oh happy day.
Who saw this coming besides everyone? Honestly, the writing’s been on the wall since the premier this season. Heck, I think we all thought the writing was on the wall by the finale last season.
Honestly, Joss Whedon should pitch his next idea to the CW, at least the ratings would be enough to keep a show on the air for longer than 2 half seasons. Lest we forget that his only successful shows only ever aired on the WB and UPN. Me thinks he shoots too high when he aims for anything above the CW (or it’s past incarnations).
“XFever, it wasn’t the sex that turned people off.
It was the nature of said sex, combined with the fact that the people having it”
Yeah, I should have been specific. My bad. Seeing people repeatedly raped (which to me is what happens to Actives every time they have sex), is pretty unappealing. I’d say even apart from the general writing, this is the reason people never turned on in the first place.
“Face it, far more complex, challenging, and ‘adult material’ shows are doing fantastic ratings. True Blood is practically ALL sex, and it’s growing by leaps and bounds.”
Yeah, I’d agree with this. Not a fan of True Blood, but there are complex shows out there that do very well in the ratings. Dollhouse is just slowly written.
“Whedon doesn’t know how to do science fiction, and face it–he was a one hit wonder from the start.”
Lol. If I was you, duck.
“Bad idea, bad execution, bad casting, bad show. You don’t need any more explanation than that.”
Actually, I think Penkitt apart, the casting is pretty good, but I’d agree with you, and FOX’s only mistake was not insisting Eliza work with someone else.
This was no surprise. The ratings were terrible. FOX gave it a second season which was more than it deserved and it still couldn’t find an audience. I feel for all you fans of the show. It’s a brutal business.
This sucks.
/sigh
http://twitter.com/IMDb
even imdb
Ohhhhh no =(
It’s not like I wasn’t expecting it but… NO!!! The evil sci-fi genre can’t seem to get viewers nowadays. I hope they at least finish the 13 episode order, since it sounded like they had a lot of great plotlines planned for this season (SUMMER GLAU!).
I’m not surprised, the ratings and the show was bad. Stargate Universe even best Dollhouse.
While I feel for Dollhouse fans, they cannot complain too much because they were given more chances than Firefly (and so many other shows for that matter) received.
Bottom line; this show didn’t get the numbers. That’s why it is no more.
IMHO 2 crucial mistakes : the first 5/6 episodes of first season ( maybe FOX is guitly ) and the first 2/3 episodes of the second ( JW fault )
Plus : I still believe epitaph 1 showed potential that I did not find in the second season
A pity …so RIP dollhouse
We now know the complete answer to Robert’s post from August:
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/08/12/more-likely-to-see-14-more-episodes-dollhouse-or-chuck/24670
XFever, Whedon is just too niche for the mainstream, and too mainstream for everybody else. He isn’t cool enough for cable, or bland enough for network. He’s stuck in the middle–with some talent, but not nearly enough to warrant all the praise he gets from people who still think he was the only reason for Buffy’s rather modest success.
When you get right down to it, Dollhouse was pretty bland ordinary stuff by today’s standards–except for the part about women (and it was almost invariably women) being programmed as sex toys for rich men. Which made no sense at all–there are REAL WOMEN who can serve that function without being programmed. It never made sense that they could charge enough money to make the Dollhouses viable–and yet still somehow evade discovery, in a world where people can take photos with their cellphones and post them on the internet in a matter of seconds.
Whedon assumed the audience was as gullible as the people living in his fictional universe. As with Firefly, he assumed incorrectly.
Does this mean it’s time to start campaigning for a feature film version? Echo…in theaters 2012.
UH, the mistake was hiring Whedon to create and run a TV series on a major network.
He just isn’t up to the job.
Let him go back to WB. Well, CW. Well no, not with the demo #’s he’s been pulling in. Well–um–Spike? Maybe?
It was all about who would break through the wall first. Not counting TBL, I think the networks were waiting for one of them to cancel something first, that way they don’t look as bad when they cancel shows after them.
Since ABC started with their multiple shows being canned, other nets will see it as being safe to now cancel their craptastic (ratings-wise) shows. I fully expect Three Rivers to be announced in a matter of minutes/hours.
Yeah Buddy, Joss could totally sell a Dollhouse feature film to some studio–if only he could go back in time before Serenity came out.
As a fan of dollhouse I’m sad, but not surprised at all
I think its kind of funny that as I was loading the site I thought “I bet dollhouse has been canceled.” lol
I’ve got it! Eureka!
Joss Whedon should pitch a remake of Charlie’s Angels (couldn’t cost more than the 10 grand he put up for the Terminator license to secure this property…nudge, nudge wink, wink) to the CW! He could cast Sarah Michelle Gellar, Summer Glau, and Eliza Dushku as the Angels, and Nathan Fillion as Bosley. The ratings would likely be good enough to sustain the show indefinitely and his fans could get all of the fanservice that they crave without worrying about cancellation every episode.
Packy, two things–
1)I wouldn’t put it past Whedon to try this.
2)It would be canceled quicker than Dollhouse.
show sucked anyway
i am disappointed but we got 2 seasons….I only wish fox had gave firefly 2 seasons !!!
Sorry pisher as I said once I’m not interetsed in your battle against JW brcause I do not care of JW at all
. Still believe that besides all the moralistic crap I’ve heard about DH there was still some good in this serial and and soem BIG mistakes and not all can charged on JW. So …the good news? I could not read about your post against JW in the future 
Oh crap… frgot Castle ahahahahah
Whedon should make a TV-spin off of the Buffy Season 8 comicbook about a group of slayers in New York or something for the CW
“XFever, Whedon is just too niche for the mainstream, and too mainstream for everybody else. He isn’t cool enough for cable, or bland enough for network. He’s stuck in the middle–with some talent, but not nearly enough to warrant all the praise he gets from people who still think he was the only reason for Buffy’s rather modest success.”
Wouldn’t argue with this at all. I also think his ego has gotten massively out of control (witness some of his internet statements).
Well, I would about Buffy’s modest success. Yes, it didn’t get great ratings, but merchandising wise it’s been a runaway success (DVDs, books, calenders, etc).
“It never made sense that they could charge enough money to make the Dollhouses viable–and yet still somehow evade discovery, in a world where people can take photos with their cellphones and post them on the internet in a matter of seconds.”
Yeah, this quite apart from the disgusting weekly rapes was the thing that turned me off the most. It just wasn’t thought through well enough.
“Whedon assumed the audience was as gullible as the people living in his fictional universe. As with Firefly, he assumed incorrectly.”
Yep.
Even as a whedon fan I have no problem with dollhouse being gone.
By far the worst show he has done. Next one can only be better
Verus, agreed–except for the ‘next one’ thingy.
Unless the next one is going to be a comic book. Or a webshow. Hey, he can still do webshows! Horribly, but he can do them!
Kinda fitting that they killed it on Rememberance Day, considering it was a show about wiping people’s memories. Oh well, FLAME ON…
But the current season isn’t cancelled, right?!! It’s been clear to everyone for some time there was no chance of a renewal beyond the current batch of 13 episodes.
Mo Tancharoen and Dichen Lachman have tweeted to confirm the news.
Oh well, at least Whedon gets to make a finale.
That said, before being absolutely certain, shouldn’t we send in Lanie Grace to see if the sets have been torn down yet?
*ducks*
Pisher- I didn’t like Dollhouse but I have no problem believing that if brainwashing existed, there would be people with a fetish for sex with brainwashed women.
Agree with Simon … It was already clear that DH would not get a 3rd season , but if they will burn off all the episodes of this season…where is the scoop ?
XFever, I would certainly agree Buffy was a financial success for 20th Television, and a potent pop cultural influence–but it ran at least two seasons too long, ended on a rather dismal note, and was never anything more than a niche hit. In the 90’s, its small audience was young enough to make a youth-oriented weblet happy, but only a fraction of that audience was willing to follow Whedon to other shows, and they’ve been aging, just like everybody else. Whedon has little appeal to younger viewers today. And even at its peak, Buffy didn’t sell DVDs like True Blood is doing now.
Whedon’s best work shouldn’t be dismissed–but it should be seen in better perspective now. He’s plenty of chances to prove Buffy wasn’t a happy accident–and he’s blown every last one of them to date.
I liked Buffy without knowing who the hell was making it–actually, by the time I knew who Joss Whedon was, I was already souring on the show. Far as I’m concerned, it was a show about high school, and it ended when they graduated–in the third season. And that was the last time Joss Whedon created anything of lasting value. Every since, it’s been about him trying to win an Emmy, and impress the critics with his brilliance.
TV critics are notoriously easy to impress, but TV viewers just want to be entertained–or challenged, sometimes. But one thing Whedon has never truly been is challenging. At no time was he one of the more innovative or original voices in television. He was just one of the more amusingly glib ones.
Whedon probably feels liberated. I know I do.
I like Fringe and Glee better than Dollhouse.
It’s a pity. I really liked the show.
“Well all you hormonal boys will have to stare at some other hot chick who can’t act I guess. Megan Fox is still available I think……”
Hey, did you see Jennifer’s Body? The girl can act, she’s just rarely given the chance (Transformers is not acting).
Damn Fox! They even didnt give other episodes a chance!
Please tell me Fringe isn’t next
Michael, you’re probably right–but would the brainwashed women (and the occasional brainwashed man) be kept in huge expensive spas, with personal trainers, and therapists, and etc? They don’t mind sleeping in glass coffins–why spend so much on them, when they don’t know the difference? Other than the joys of building a big pricey set on the network’s dime?
How do you make a profit from such a tiny niche market, when your overhead is so high? How do you avoid detection, when your ‘dolls’ are not just meeting rich guys in sequestered getaways, but are appearing with them at gala events–or in some cases, joining the entourages of major celebrities?
How do you stop a jealous wife from calling the press?
It would come out. You know it would. It would never ever work as a business. Unless they kept it small, and secret, and discreet–which wouldn’t allow Whedon the range of stories he wanted.
He could have set it in some future time where this kind of thing was legalized. He could have done that. He was afraid to make it too science-fictioney for the general public. He shouldn’t have worried about that.
Fringe will be the next
Finally. The show is horrible and boring!!!! Repeats of Bones are doing better. How sad!
I usually wouldnt be soo mean but when Eastwick was cancelled, everyone was mean about that so heres payback!!
observer, Fringe probably isn’t next. But it’s not safe, either. Nor should it be. It’s performing much better than Dollhouse did when it got renewed last season. Best I can tell you.
usedtolovecoco, maybe you didn’t get the memo, but Jennifer’s Body FLOPPED.
Maybe horny teenaged boys of all ages aren’t QUITE as predictable as they appear.
“This badly-written soap opera made Whedon look like Dickens and Twain.”
Heh… I wonder what a Twain-written version of Christmas Carol would have looked like?
As for why it was canceled and the Fox promise of no cancellations… maybe the accountants ran the numbers and decided reruns would make better sense economically than Dollhouse? If a show is tanking and expectations of better revenues from reruns are actually surpassing revenues for the original, maybe they decided to improve the bottom line? That, along with the ABC cancellations giving cover to the other networks could explain most of this decision.
This may be “Massacre Week” for the low-rating shows. Three Rivers is probably wondering if they are next. There may be others who are starting to sweat, including, in the future, V (its steep drop, while still posting respectable numbers, can’t be a comfort). Eastwick, Hank, Dollhouse… how many more on this Veteran’s Day week?
Btw, off topic, but sincere… to those in the armed forces… thanks for doing your job.
“XFever, I would certainly agree Buffy was a financial success for 20th Television, and a potent pop cultural influence–but it ran at least two seasons too long, ended on a rather dismal note, and was never anything more than a niche hit.”
I’d agree, the last two years were terribly written, although how much of that is Noxon’s fault?
I think Angel is the rather better written show, and big surprise, Whedon only had major influence (according to D. Fury on the last year which saw Angel blithely adopt a soulless vampire in Harmony).
“In the 90’s, its small audience was young enough to make a youth-oriented weblet happy, but only a fraction of that audience was willing to follow Whedon to other shows, and they’ve been aging, just like everybody else. Whedon has little appeal to younger viewers today.”
True again.
“And even at its peak, Buffy didn’t sell DVDs like True Blood is doing now.”
Don’t know the figures on that, but if you say so. But then, DVDs have only really taken videos place in the less 6 – 7 years, just as Buffy came to an end.
“Whedon’s best work shouldn’t be dismissed–but it should be seen in better perspective now. He’s plenty of chances to prove Buffy wasn’t a happy accident–and he’s blown every last one of them to date.”
Yeah, and his inattention to consistent characterisation and plot continuity can be galling (Television Without Pity deals with this stuff far better than I could).
“I liked Buffy without knowing who the hell was making it–actually, by the time I knew who Joss Whedon was, I was already souring on the show.”
Surprisingly the same (the Carpenter sacking, certain statements he released etc all happened around 02 – 04).
“Far as I’m concerned, it was a show about high school, and it ended when they graduated–in the third season. And that was the last time Joss Whedon created anything of lasting value.”
Eh, there was some good stuff after that Once More, The Gift, but yeah, I’d pretty much agree.
“Every since, it’s been about him trying to win an Emmy, and impress the critics with his brilliance.”
And pander to his cult, don’t forget that.
TV critics are notoriously easy to impress, but TV viewers just want to be entertained–or challenged, sometimes. But one thing Whedon has never truly been is challenging. At no time was he one of the more innovative or original voices in television. He was just one of the more amusingly glib ones.
“How do you make a profit from such a tiny niche market, when your overhead is so high? How do you avoid detection, when your ‘dolls’ are not just meeting rich guys in sequestered getaways, but are appearing with them at gala events–or in some cases, joining the entourages of major celebrities?
How do you stop a jealous wife from calling the press?
It would come out. You know it would. It would never ever work as a business. Unless they kept it small, and secret, and discreet–which wouldn’t allow Whedon the range of stories he wanted. ”
The show wasn’t thought out. Either that or Whedon thought the viewers were too stupid to see this.
pisher, once again, you seem to again be too eager to disregard millions of people as some kind of a cult worshipping Whedon no matter what. Of course you’re trolling, no one can be that thick. I’ll just say this about my personal point of view: time after time, Whedon (and the people he surrounds himself with) has proven that anything he comes up with, in any genre, will be worth my time. I had no interest in Dr.Horrible as a project, but ended up loving it – that’s no fluke, that’s consistency.
I’ll ask you one thing – do you know who writes the bland drivel shown every week on various CSIs, NCISs and other acronyms? Do you think the 20 million who watch it every week care? Do you think it serves as anything more than disposable amusement to any of them? I happen to dread a world where all television is like that. Where there’s no Whedon and Firefly, no Weiner and Mad Men, no Sutter and Sons of Anarchy, no Moore and Battlestar Galactica. Where every show is the equivalent of a burger with fries. Networks know this, that is why they keep trying out with stuff that shakes the menu up from time to time. Some of it sticks, most of it doesn’t. But I’d rather watch my Dollhouse/Breaking Bad/whatever DVDs over and over than any of the disposable crap shoved down our throats.
I wish more people felt the same, but let’s not forget how many people believe in stuff like “The president is not American” and “The H1N1 flu shot is a way to track people”.
I vote for posts no longer then 5 lines . Whos is with me ??
Whedon was desperate to get back on TV again. He was not content with writing X-Men comics, and doing bad webshows. He was not content with the worship of his mewling minions.
Dushku’s development contract with FOX gave him an in–she wanted a show where she could explore her range as an actress. Problem–she doesn’t have much of a range as an actress. And he had to build the show around her. She can’t credibly play a lot of different people, but the premise collapses if she’s just minor variations on the same person every week.
He had an unsolvable problem, and he refused to accept that. He threw money at the problem. When the budgets got slashed, he didn’t even have that.
It was a problem of his own making, and I have to believe he’s smart enough to see that. But probably also deluded enough to keep denying it.
If the problem is 20th Century Fox, he’s got a simple solution–work somewhere else.
Only time he ever did that was when he took Serenity to Universal–and failed just as badly, even though he had friends in high places there.
His options keep shrinking, every time he makes another move.
I wonder what his next one will be?
UH: Good luck with that. Chances are there would just be a lot more posts with 2 or 3 intermingled thought streams going at once to explain the longer post.
Not making fun of the idea, just an observation. 
Bring back Firefly.
“I’ll ask you one thing – do you know who writes the bland drivel shown every week on various CSIs, NCISs and other acronyms? Do you think the 20 million who watch it every week care? Do you think it serves as anything more than disposable amusement to any of them? I happen to dread a world where all television is like that. Where there’s no Whedon and Firefly, no Weiner and Mad Men, no Sutter and Sons of Anarchy, no Moore and Battlestar Galactica. Where every show is the equivalent of a burger with fries. Networks know this, that is why they keep trying out with stuff that shakes the menu up from time to time. Some of it sticks, most of it doesn’t. But I’d rather watch my Dollhouse/Breaking Bad/whatever DVDs over and over than any of the disposable crap shoved down our throats.”
Wow, just wow. Where is pisher saying TV should just be procedurals?
Myself, I’d rather watch well-done sci-fi than well-done procedurals. But I’d rather watch a well-done procedural than poorly thought out sci-fi.
I don’t watch Grey’s Anatomy, CSI, or NCIS. But I do watch Bones.
My favourite program on TV is Dexter. My favourite show ever is Babylon 5.
Unfortunately, Whedon can’t match that standard.
There’s plenty of very good shows out there – Sons Of Anarchy, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Dexter.
It’s just a shame that Whedon can’t match the standard.
Budo, I’m sorry, but I have to ask–where were all these millions of people when Dollhouse was on?
Blogging about how great Dollhouse is?
Whoops.
Damn that sucks. I didnt watch the show but I know a lot of people here did….my condolenses to you guys =(
Doesnt hurt as much as when Angel got canned, despite strong ratings. At least they have given Joss enough time to end the show properly and hopefully give it closure since they are filming ep 11. Still i think it will probably end like Angel where a mojor arc happened in the last 2 eps to end the series
Ya know…I’m a fan; I say “Shiny” from time to time. And I just really don’t care anymore. I’m walking away. I watch Castle, both ’cause it’s good AND it has Nathan in it; I’m gonna try to stick with V as long as I can ’cause Morena’s in it; but I think “The Era of Whedon is Over” for me.
TV should be good–no matter what the genre, no matter what the format. I ask for nothing more, and I settle for nothing less. And that’s why I couldn’t settle for Dollhouse. But I was there for the very first airing of the very first episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and watched it faithfully for years–before it turned into a sad twisted parody of itself.
Speaking as somebody who reads Tolstoy for pleasure, I think I can handle the complexity of Dollhouse.
What I couldn’t handle was the stupidity–and the misogyny.
“Dushku’s development contract with FOX gave him an in–she wanted a show where she could explore her range as an actress. Problem–she doesn’t have much of a range as an actress. And he had to build the show around her. She can’t credibly play a lot of different people, but the premise collapses if she’s just minor variations on the same person every week.”
And for the first time we strongly disagree. She can do vulnerable, sexy, dangerous, gentle, tough, funny. The only thing I wouldn’t cast her in would be a period piece.
“He had an unsolvable problem, and he refused to accept that. He threw money at the problem. When the budgets got slashed, he didn’t even have that.”
The problem was rather more to do with his original premise. And casting Penkitt didn’t help.
Now that dude can’t act.
“If the problem is 20th Century Fox, he’s got a simple solution–work somewhere else.”
Good luck competing with the writers of Mad Men, Deadwood, Dexter, etc.
Brian, if somebody who thinks Nathan Fillion is worth watching is walking away, the era of Whedon may really be over.
Or maybe it already was, and this was just an ‘Epilogue’.
“Good luck competing with the writers of Mad Men, Deadwood, Dexter, etc.”
I’d have chosen different shows, but I know what you mean.
Btw, Deadwood is canceled too.
watch terminator coming back lol
Pisher, I don’t think the problem was just Dushku’s range- if he made her a master of disguise or something, the show would have probably worked better than Dollhouse.
XFEever…Dexter ?? LOL!!!! … So the poor abused girls of DH are not moral and a freaking disturbed serial killer presented like a good guy is … what ? ahahahahah
> Speaking as somebody who reads Tolstoy for pleasure, I think I can handle the complexity of Dollhouse. What I couldn’t handle was the stupidity–and the misogyny.
Saying how smart you are, and then complaining that Dollhouse has “misogyny”, doesn’t really cast you in a favorable light. Just an observation.
What “bad web shows”? Are you gonna just blurt out insults as they come to you pisher?
Also, people – picking apart TV shows is the easiest thing ever. Finding reasons not to watch something is irrelevant, when all TV is like that.
- Why is one single starship in a whole galaxy quadrant always in the middle of some unusual occurrence, or the closest to an emergency?
- How does ANY forensic specialist get anywhere near questioning a suspect, let alone make arrests and a million of other stuff?
- How come every crime can be solved largely by crunching numbers, yet mathematicians are not standard personnel all over the FBI?
- A family doesn’t age for 20 years, and yet it’s supposed to be average and normal?
I could do this all day. In the end, it’s about what you choose to believe, and what you enjoy.
Pisher , pure BS. The show was poorly conceived but this doesn’t mean Whedon is finished..just look at Dr Horrible for instance, pure genius and sold in huge numbers on ITUNES and other services even though it was free for quite a while when it first came out. Lets see how well his next movie does and part 2 of Dr Horrible before placing Joss in his grave.
And in other news, TVbytheNumbers traffic decreases significantly.
““Good luck competing with the writers of Mad Men, Deadwood, Dexter, etc.”
I’d have chosen different shows, but I know what you mean.
Btw, Deadwood is canceled too.
Yeah I know, I was just using examples of premium channels.
“XFEever…Dexter ?? LOL!!!! … So the poor abused girls of DH are not moral and a freaking disturbed serial killer presented like a good guy is … what ? ahahahahah”
It’s also, unlike Dollhouse, well-written.
And I don’t see brain-washed rapes every week on Dexter.
LOL!
R.I.P. Dollhouse. Truth be told, I’m not going to miss you.
@ Dave, LOL. It’s the TV show cycle of life. As Dollhouse departs, another show will take its place.
Sure you see bloody piece of people every week …pretty sane
@ Budo
“I’ll ask you one thing – do you know who writes the bland drivel shown every week on various CSIs, NCISs and other acronyms?”
NCIS was created by Donald Bellesario, the dude who gave us Magnum, JAG and Quantum Leap. He skipped town in season 4, but I believe his son is still involved.
So millions of people (about 2? 1.5? how many millions judging by DH?) can by definition not be a crazy cult following, but if twenty million people enhjoy a show on a weekly basis obviously the must have been dropped on the head as babies. Nice argument there.
If cancelled show defenders want to look marginally sane and reasonable, maybe they should check all that dumbass “but NCIS, Two and Half Men, American Idol and House are still on the air, whawhawha, why am I cursed with taste” drivel at the door.
I don’t think anyone can be surprised about it .
I guess this leaves just CBS with not cancelations yet , I wonder why.
NOOOO! They renewed the show last year with bad rating… and now they cancel it like this after four episode (in Friday) doing nothin’? i refuse to believe this until fox confermation…
Sorry for fans. Glad that the ongoing discussion of the show’s fate is finally over.
Fabio … for your peace of mind … it’s gone no need for fox confirmation … it was already gone weeks ago …do not be a TSCC fan… kind of
“If cancelled show defenders want to look marginally sane and reasonable, maybe they should check all that dumbass “but NCIS, Two and Half Men, American Idol and House are still on the air, whawhawha, why am I cursed with taste” drivel at the door.”
Yeah, the Whedon fanbase (and Whedon himself) don’t go out there to make friends.
Also, look on Tweeter.
‘Fuck FOX’.
Very sane and reasonable.
“Pisher , pure BS.”
Is what you’re about to start spouting. I know.
“The show was poorly conceived but this doesn’t mean Whedon is finished..”
He is on FOX. I mean, if he actually goes back to them, I think both the network and Whedon need to undergo counseling for a mutually abusive relationship.
“just look at Dr Horrible for instance, pure genius”
I did. Pure crap. Felicia Day excepted, and I note with interest how Whedon chose to deal with her character.
“and sold in huge numbers on ITUNES and other services even though it was free for quite a while when it first came out.”
Um–yeah–huge numbers. On iTunes. Well, if that’s where he wants to go, let him try. But I think he’ll find the novelty of a former TV hotshot doing webshows will wear off quickly, and he’ll end up doing smaller #’s than Felicia Day’s own (much lower-budget) webshow.
“Lets see how well his next movie does and part 2 of Dr Horrible before placing Joss in his grave.”
If he goes that route, he’s already IN his grave, as a network showrunner. AND as a writer/director of feature films. And frankly, I think your remarks would sadden him more than mine.
XFEver says:
“The only thing I wouldn’t cast her in would be a period piece.”
The role of Mary Mallon springs to mind.
Whedon’s reation to the canceletion is rather gracious:
http://whedonesque.com/comments/22328#349440
Fact: More people will bitch about this show being cancelled than the number of people that actually watched the damn thing.
We all knew it was coming, I’m just glad they are (for the moment at least) planning on airing the remaining episodes.
I really don’t know what Whedon was thinking when he came up with the a misogynistic yawn fest that was Dollhouse.
Maybe he’ll return to form after this.
Showrunners who want to go on being showrunners don’t blame the network in public. Particularly when said network has given them more chances than they deserved.
Whedon will do his complaining in private–or subtextually in the scripts of his next whiny webshow.
CK, Joss has always seemed to have a great demeanor and a great sense of humor. BTW I have edited your comment to link directly to Joss’ comment on Whedonesque.com rather than THR’s repurposing of it.
Jeremy I apologize in advance with you but ..that’s bullshit !! if you base this on the comments to this post
Where the hell are you seeing these crazy fans bitching ? Looks back to the 152 response and tell me where the hell you see fans bitching …I see just Xfever and pisher enjoing the cnacellation ahahahahah
@idizzle
“NCIS was created by Donald Bellesario, the dude who gave us Magnum, JAG and Quantum Leap. He skipped town in season 4, but I believe his son is still involved.”
Who WRITES it? My point was – does it matter?
“So millions of people (about 2? 1.5? how many millions judging by DH?) can by definition not be a crazy cult following, but if twenty million people enhjoy a show on a weekly basis obviously the must have been dropped on the head as babies. Nice argument there.”
Gee, thanks for “clearing up” my argument there. I’m talking about the millions of fans worldwide, not the Americans who tune in (or not) every week. I’m not American, btw, not even close. If Whedon can find a way to market his work globally, there is a huge number of people that would support it. I would.
“If cancelled show defenders want to look marginally sane and reasonable, maybe they should check all that dumbass “but NCIS, Two and Half Men, American Idol and House are still on the air, whawhawha, why am I cursed with taste” drivel at the door.”
Let’s get this straight – no one is measuring up cancelled shows against the stuff that has the biggest ratings. It’s no secret that it’s what the majority of people want and the networks are more than happy to provide. People like myself only lament the continued existence of a deeply flawed system where there’s no way of serving a substantial minority with what they want to see, and if something does get through, it has to conform and make compromises, or else idle people like pisher will troll ratings websites gloating over its “failure”.
RIP Dollhouse.
“Whedon will do his complaining in private–or subtextually in the scripts of his next whiny webshow.
”
Or alternatively via his sniping bids for other franchises were he complains about Nolan getting the Batman franchise and making two films he couldn’t even dream of.
Nathan Fillion as Batman and Alan Tudyk as the Joker.
Let projectile vomiting ensue.
I still don’t have BINGO yet. Come on people!
Tudyk would make a great Joker, now that you mention it.
I am wondering is there some way of blocking people’s comments? I am able to do this over at pifeedback.com but I guess this is because you can log in to an account. I really hate that pisher has managed to infect these comment boards as well. Robert/Bill anyway I can block him/her out?
“Tudyk would make a great Joker, now that you mention it.
”
Yeah, figures you would.
@Raymond, standard Wordpress commenting, without user registration, which is what we’re running, doesn’t have a “hide this commenter” feature.
I have read so many times the word mysoginistic here that I start really to love DH , it’s bad this happen once officially cancelled
Eh.
Sorry to all “Dollhouse”/Whedon fans. I didn’t care much for it, BUT there are about 16 worse shows on television more worthy of cancellation, so I empathize. Hopefully, Whedon can create yet another series and give it another go.
Bring on Dr. Horrible 2
XFEver says:
Yeah, figures you would.
I don’t much care for the Batman franchise, and I never gave it a moment’s thought on the subject of potential Jokers, but Tudyk is a talented actor, and could do twisted brilliance. Why wouldn’t I? Is the role sacred or something? Get over yourself.
Sigh I figured that was true – oh well I guess I’ll just have to deal with it. Hopefully you can keep an eye on it to see he/she doesn’t get out of hand like they have on pifeedback.
First Eastwick, now Dollhouse
This isn’t my week
“I don’t much care for the Batman franchise, and I never gave it a moment’s thought on the subject of potential Jokers, but Tudyk is a talented actor, and could do twisted brilliance. Why wouldn’t I? Is the role sacred or something? Get over yourself.”
I’ll ‘get over myself’, when you get over your Whedon fetish. Deal?
Not surprised. Casting was weak.
It will air for at least 1 more season somewhere else. I’m guessing The CW and Syfy are in talks to pick it up.
Kevin…. you do not follow TVBTN….forget it …is gone gone gone
For people who are complaining about this…stop bitching OK. The show is done. Gone. Dead.
If we can’t get pisher banned from this website for trolling, can we at least get an option installed that hides comments from certain users? I haven’t stumbled across such a thoroughly unpleasant, repugnant personality in years, and it’s enough to make me stop visiting this site.
Dave: As Bogie would say to Ingrid Bergman, “…we’ll always have Chuck (or the next “Jericho”, or whatever)…”, while “As Time Goes By” tinkles softly on the radio…
…wait a second – I’ll always have “As Time Goes By” – thank you, Dame Judi
Great song standards are with us always.
Chuck, not so much.
DW, I’ve seen nastier stuff by far directed at Seidman by fans of Dollhouse, here and elsewhere. I don’t remember you complaining about that.
It’s really not that hard to skim over the posts of somebody you don’t like.
Or somebody telling truths you don’t want to deal with.
So do it, already.
rip dollhouse
i loved it so much. i don’t care about all the negative buzz around it. i love this website and it’s job is to analyze ratings. dollhouse was mentioned wayy more often than any other show, still. i’m happy we get to enjoy the last few episodes. can’t wait!!
Oh wait a damn minute–did somebody just suggest ALAN TUDYK play The Joker? As a replacement for HEATH LEDGER?
That is taking Whedonesquery to new levels of insanity.
(salutes)
XFever, the funny thing is–that’s EXACTLY WHO WHEDON WOULD WANT TO CAST.
But it’s only funny because he’ll never get the chance.
“People like myself only lament the continued existence of a deeply flawed system where there’s no way of serving a substantial minority with what they want to see, and if something does get through, it has to conform and make compromises”
Isn’t this pretty much what cable is for? Just saying.
I mean sure cable runs on ratings too, but plenty of uncompromising niche shows that are carrying on fine there.
Pisher – Chuck will be guaranteed until the Winter Olympics, at the very least – which is going to help keep Robert and Bill warm this winter, as the page views (and revenues) repeatedly spike again…
…of course, if their servers crash and burn again, the warmth will be self-generated
And if Subway gets enough improved sales because of Chuck (how much will they need to have is the big question, but it is certain that there is a finite and reasonably attainable number that they need to have), there will likely be another season of Chuck in 10-11 (see “Friday Night Lights”)…
…and Joss Wheedon on the road, selling an embedded sponsorship or two for his next project, so he can get it approved more readily
pisher – yes, and no one has ever played the Joker before Ledger, and no one can after je died, ’cause, God forbid, that would be “replacing him”. Grow up.
Mumbo – there’s only as much room and resources on cable. Case in point – HBO passed on Mad Men. It took Weiner a decade to get someone to shoot the pilot. Also – good shows get cancelled prematurely on cable all the time, too.
pisher, I don’t even like Dollhouse, but your endless (and I do mean endless) stream of negativity is impossible to deal with. Why not discuss something you enjoy? Why not say something positive just once? Wallowing in the misery of others has to get old eventually.
DOLLHOUSE was at best a good show. It should never have received a second season. This season has had one great episode and the rest are not even as good as the worst episodes of season 1. Whedon fans will pretend anything he does is magic.
DW, don’t worry — I think that the gotta-get-the-last-word-in-because-i-know-it-all-and-have-better-taste-than-you-pisher has invaded tvbythenumbers only temporarily due to the Dollhouse news…
flagging number of posters on marc berman’s cruddy website leaving you bored, pisher?
nobody over there want to play Let’s Debate with you anymore?
Shocking.
(please don’t leave an emoticon in your inevitable reply to this post)
Wait a minute, DW – Pisher was a wee bit positive – all Joss needs to do to make Pisher happy(ier) is use really good classic music in his next show…
…at best, it will sound like a good episode of House, or TCM Saturday Classics (look at all the soundtracks from 20th Century Fox films he could use – and footage, too (thank you, Irwin Allen and Time Tunnel!))…
…at worst, if he had a decent music arranger, it could sound like a decent Looney Tunes cartoon…
…if not, it would sound like William Hung singing falsetto
A fanbase that calls people who don’t want to watch their program ’stupid’ etc is always a great selling point too.
Well, since the vast majority of the complaints I’ve seen come down to “I can’t categorize all the people/characters in the first 10 minutes of the first episode, so I actually have to think about the show, and I don’t like that”, calling them “stupid” is pretty appropriate.
This assessment is even more apt when you hear the same idiots whining about how “no one puts anything new on TV any more”.
There are people who need to be bitch-slapped, and that would certainly apply to anyone who makes that comment but refuses to watch FlashForward and/or Dollhouse simply because the shows “make them have to think”. You don’t deserve inventive television, because you don’t want to actually have anything that actually invents.
P.S. that first line above is a quote from an earlier post.
>”I really would love to see Joss move to cable where ratings expectations are not the same as broadcast.”
He’s a perfect fit for the CW. There’s no way Buffy would have survived for 7 years on a major network. Its numbers were never great, but on the WB, it was a flagship show and became a cult phenomenon.
I love Joss’s creations but they are just not suited for the mainstream. Firefly– his best creation, IMHO– wasn’t quite mainstream either, but if it had been on the WB/CW, it might still be on the air.
Cable too, yeah. Anything but the big four.
O Bloody Hell, I would argue that there are many people who don’t watch FlashForward or Dollhouse because they are very poorly constructed genre efforts. I’m all for inventive television, but only if it’s also GOOD television.
People who don’t want to think while watching TV probably never tuned in to Dollhouse or FF in the first place.
I love dollhouse, It would Be SO COOL (It would probably never happen) if the CW picked up Dollhouse for an aditional 9 episodes and aired them after smallvie in february…
Right NOw just a repeat of American’s next top model is on after smallville… Dollhouse could air after smallville.
Smallville and Dollhouse are sort of the same genre and dollhouse gets about 2.5 million viewers per episodes and smallville gets about 2.7ish…
makes sense to me, but i guess this is me just being in denial…
I so wish we could save dollhouse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m so glad that awful show is gone.
Whedon’s core audience is much too old and male for CW’s tastes.
He’d have an outside shot at getting a show on Spike or SyFy, and that’s about it. And I doubt he’d do all that well anywhere. Just remember–the audience Dollhouse got on FOX–much larger than the audience Dollhouse would have gotten on CW, or on cable.
FOX looked at the first batch of eps, sighed, and said “Friday”.
It was over a long time before it was officially over.
If there’s going to be a Bingo game then how about a Most Moronic Troll Game too?
No empathy, no sympathy, no compassion for those who lost a show that they enjoyed? The many who are out of work and their families?
Those are all characteristics of human beings, and if a poster doesn’t have any of those qualities, if they are only here to whine and complain about how a show offended their obviously delicate sensibilities, then how about nominating them for this, the least prestigious of awards?
Taylor Smoke, Dollhouse wouldn’t get the same ratings on the CW that it got on FOX. And the CW isn’t looking to pickup other networks scraps, they are all about making their own crap that no one wants to watch.
What’s going to happen to Elisha Dushku? I’ve always kind of liked her.
>”Whedon’s core audience is much too old and male for CW’s tastes.”
That’s very wrong– he probably has more female fans then any other sci-fi creator I can think of. Remember Buffy– that self-proclaimed feminist show? Yeah. Whedonites skew female in a big way. Arguably, his sci-fi image and male demographic comes mostly from Firefly.
Whether he’d fit well with CW’s current management, I have no idea. I’ve heard lots about this Dawn Ostroff, but only secondhand (usually in comment threads like these).
So hey–FOX is hardly my favorite network, though they do show some of my favorite cartoon sitcoms.
But if you’re a Joss Whedon fan, you’ve got to give it up for them, right? They got burned by Firefly, and they still gave Whedon another chance with Dollhouse. They gave him a ton of money, lots of promotion, and more creative freedom than most TV producers get. And when the show in question couldn’t do as well as repeats of COPS, they defied the media pundits, and renewed the show. And now, facing ratings that the average latenight infomercial would be ashamed of, they’re still resolved to show all the remaining episodes, and give Whedon a chance to give his few remaining viewers what is popularly known as ‘closure’.
So while they are certainly disappointed, Whedon’s fans have to at least give FOX some credit for sticking with something that was clearly a ratings failure from the very start, and would have been almost instantaneously canceled anywhere else. Right? Let me just check Whedonesque–
“Dear Fox,
You suck.
That’s all.”
And that’s what you get for trying to be nice to these people.
You’d have gotten the same exact message if the show had run five full seasons.
SyFy’s tweet will be one of the best tweet’s ever concerning this. I know it was posted before but its worhty of a repeat:
http://twitter.com/Syfy/status/5628959045
Anyway, it sucks to have a show you like canceled, so my sympathies to all the DH fans. I know how you feel, we all have had a favorite show axed.
usedtolovecoco, I know that’s the myth, but it’s not the reality. Whedon has his female admirers on the internet, but they are not mainly young women (CW’s target audience), nor are they compose anywhere near half the audience that watches his shows. His shows skew heavily male–as did the audience for Serenity in movie theaters.
Dollhouse seemed almost expressly designed for the purpose of driving female viewers away–and I suspect it’s cost Whedon some of his female fanbase as well.
Shows about jiggly brainwashed hookers tend to do that.
It was never about female fantasies–and with Whedon, it never really has been. It was just that his earlier fantasies, male-oriented though they were (like did you ever notice that the only gay relationships on his shows are between hot young women?), were more compatible with a certain subset of geek girls, looking for empowerment role models, and appreciating Buffy and Willow in that context. Successful genre shows with female leads are rare indeed, and Whedon deserved some credit for that.
And he’s been coasting on it ever since.
Max452, that may be one of the coldest things I’ve seen–nipped that last forlorn right in the bud. And via twitter–man, that’s cold!
And kinda cool.
For a twitter.
>”usedtolovecoco, I know that’s the myth, but it’s not the reality. Whedon has his female admirers on the internet, but they are not mainly young women (CW’s target audience), nor are they compose anywhere near half the audience that watches his shows. His shows skew heavily male–as did the audience for Serenity in movie theaters.”
I’d have to see some evidence to back that up. Firefly and Dollhouse, sure, but his longest running and most successful show, Buffy, had an audience that was mostly female. Or I always thought. If there’s some statistics out there that it was more male than female, I’ll be very surprised.
Another thing about Joss is that relying on his fan base is a mistake. Most average people don’t know or care who a show’s creator is. They just see the promos for a show, maybe check it out, and like it or don’t. His fanbase is vocal, but it’s not all that large– not large enough to drive the success of his shows, anyway (Dollhouse and Serenity proved that).
I enjoyed (almost) every minute of Buffy and Firefly, but I can’t mourn the demise of Dollhouse, with its puerile plotting and consistently misogynistic undertones. Eliza Dushku doesn’t have the acting abilities to carry a show, and a few good episodes didn’t do enough to redeem it.
“No empathy, no sympathy, no compassion for those who lost a show that they enjoyed? The many who are out of work and their families?”
AO, I’ve always found your posts pleasant and polite and classy and I don’t mean this to sound like I’m picking a fight just because you and I are on opposite sides of the Whedon fandom divide, but come on. The cast, crew, writers and producers of Dollhouse aren’t Hurricane Katrina victims. A lot of the creators/cast are wealthy, the crew are Hollywood professionals, almost all of them will find work at some point. The thing about trolling is, it goes both ways (and I’m not accusing you of trolling by the way.) Yes, there are people cackling in glee here because they either found the show offensive or they’re tired of the Whedon fanbase. But there are also Whedon fans out there who are posting all over the internet right now about how the rest of us are all idiots for not being able to appreciate the “genius” of the show, and also anything else Joss Whedon touches. Joss Whedon is unique in that his audience is very small in comparative terms and yet they’re extremely vocal, but it isn’t just that: his fans aren’t just fans of his TV shows but of Whedon himself, they’ve created a cult of personality around the man which, frankly, almost tempts me to troll certain forums (I try to resist this temptation) because I just want to shake Whedon’s fans by the shoulders and scream, Shatner-fashion, “Buffy was a frigging TV show! And it was lousy the last two seasons! Will you people frigging get lives?!” (I have the exact same reaction to Star Wars fans if that’s any consolation.)
A percentage of Whedon’s fans–the ones we hear from most often because they’re the most vocal–seem so lost in the cult of personality they’ve perpetuated around the man that they just come off as grating, hence the people who try to pick fights with them. And I am speaking, by the way, as a fan of Buffy and Angel who has spent hundreds of dollars on the DVD sets. The difference between myself and the Whedonites is that I honestly don’t think Buffy is the greatest TV show ever made, I don’t think Dollhouse was a particularly insightful rumination on the human condition, and I’m never, ever, ever tempted to wear “Whedon is My Master” T-shirts, or to call him Joss, or to really care about whether or not he or his writers or his actors are put out of work. (They don’t care whether you or I lose our jobs, do they?) I like Eliza Dushku fine and I’ll watch the next thing she stars in. I like Whedon fine and I’ll give his next show a chance if the subject matter interests me. But the bottom line is that obsessed fans are always going to seem strange and offputting and, yes, annoying, to anyone who doesn’t share their obsession. People like Pisher, I think, are reacting to the fanbase at least as much as the show, and those people will always be around because sites like Whedonesque will always be around, obsessively, sycophantically fawning over Joss Whedon to the point where the rest of us who are fans of some of his work but haven’t drunk the “he is God/a genius” Kool Aid are just rolling our eyes in annoyance. (Kinda like how I get really annoyed when people try to tell me Star Wars taught them life lessons, or Twilight is a work of dark genius rather than romance novels for horny teenagers.)
And I know your answer to me about the Whedonites’ various “Joss is the dreamiest! Why don’t stupid people like his shows?” posts would probably be that I should ignore them, and why am I bothering to read posts relating to a fandom I don’t really count myself as part of. But then I would say the same to Whedonites who are complaining about the complainers: you guys love Joss Whedon, the haters can’t stand him for whatever reason. (Personally, I find Whedon’s public persona arrogant and glib, but I still enjoy the first five seasons of Buffy and all of Angel except for the Connor/Cordelia thing.) Agree to disagree. I guess the bottom line of this really long, rambling post is that I honestly don’t think Whedonites really comprehend how they seem to other, non-Whedonite people: the Whedonites have spread around the internet preaching the Whedon = genius gospel like Jehovah’s Witnesses who show up at your door distributing copies of the Watchtower and if you happen to have TV/movie interests that dovetail with anything Whedon is even peripherally associated with, you will come into contact with them, and they can just be annoying. (But you aren’t.)
Whedon’s fanbase may not be large enough, but it’s sure loud enough–to drive a lot of people away.
After Fox cancelled TSCC I stopped watching Dollhouse, So I really don’t care.
Aside from the part about being a fan of his work, I’d like to co-sign mark’s post.
ya…what mark said.
Off to the Whedon Graveyard of failed shows.
I guess now fans will be sending FOX 20 tons of barbie dolls or something.
Really not surprised Dollhouse has been cancelled. If Eliza wasn’t such a boring actress and maybe if they made the show more about ALL of the dolls, then it may have stood a chance. I used to love Eliza but she is so one dimensional and downright dull. I wanted to see more about Sierra or Dr. Saunders…they were the reason I watched the show, not Echo! Overall, the second season should have been alot stronger, considering they knew the risk of being cancelled. Don’t blame it on a Friday timeslot, give me a break. I still made time to watch it or record it. I know I’m gonna be blasted for saying this but Joss is losing his touch.
Hi Mark,
Thank you for the compliments that you gave. I’ve certainly enjoyed speaking with you before as well.
The people who are now out of work are not “Hurricane Katrina victims” but I wasn’t trying to imply that they were. Anyone who is working for a job that they enjoy (which I’m assuming is the case for at least some of them) and suddenly loses that job is worth some compassion in my book. As much as victims of Katrina, or genocide or the family of a murder victim? Of course not. But to some extent then I would absolutely say yes. Few people like to lose their jobs, even when they knew in advance that it could be coming.
I’m sure that some of them are well enough off and won’t be hurting for money anytime soon, but I don’t admire people who are happy to sit around doing nothing, even if they can afford it. Their being Hollywood professionals does mean something, but from all that I read it means less than it used to. I live in Los Angeles and see stories about people in the Entertainment Industry who have trouble finding work and those professionals who used to donate to food shelters and now have need of them.
Given the choice of feeling sympathy for the people who lost their jobs here and the fans of this show vs. those who are rejoicing and have no connection whatsoever with the show then I absolutely will choose the former. The people here who are “cackling in glee”, what is their motivation? Because they “found the show offensive”? Why does it personally affect them to such a degree? Aren’t there more important things in life to be so offended by? Racism? Sexism? Ageism? Domestic Abuse? Child Abuse? Assault? Hunger? Poverty? Those are all okay, but a TV show and it’s fans get their blood boiling? I simply don’t get that.
“They’re tired of the Whedon fanbase?” I still haven’t seen any monolithic fanbase and if they’re tired then so what? Why not just ignore that fanbase? That’s what I do with fans of shows and properties that I don’t care for. “The Spice Girls are the most talented musical act in history?” “Paris Hilton is the most talented actress in history?” “Twilight ranks as some of the finest literature in history?” I smile and say nothing. I shake my head. Some people love sports and some don’t. Some people love Lord of the Rings and some don’t. What does it matter? Let the people enjoy what makes them happy as long as it’s not hurting anyone or breaking any laws. That’s my philosophy.
People who are fans of this show and are posting out of anger, frustration, disappointment, a lack of understanding? Some of them may be overdoing it, or their emotional volatility may “upset” onlookers, but I can understand that. These are people who are genuinely upset. Am I THAT upset? No, not personally, but perhaps they do have a bit more of an attachment to this show than might be healthy, but again, so what? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Someone whose problem is being overly worked up about a TV show is far better than the faults of a lot of other people in this world. What’s the reasoning behind those who take pleasure in others’ misery? Please explain that to me, because I can’t figure out any way that a rational, decent or semi-decent person would feel that way.
So yes, I essentially said that the best course is to ignore them. And why not? This is a Dollhouse thread. I would hope that most of the other places that “Whedonites” are talking are on Boards designed for “their people” or on threads where they are on topic. If Dollhouse fans are going to the “Hank is Cancelled” thread and trying to derail it or say things like “Well, this show deserved it because I didn’t like it but why did Dollhouse have to be canceled too!” then I would very much agree that that would be wrong. If they’re headed to the Star Wars Board to lament Dollhouse’s passing then I would think that wrong too. But are the “Whedonites” really doing that? This thread is meant for discussion of Dollhouse’s cancelation, if you are tired of hearing people talk about Dollhouse then in all sincerity I wonder whether this might be a good place for you to avoid? At least for the next day or two. And again, I’m not in any way trying to run you off. If you want to talk Dollhouse or hear the frustrations of those who do then you’re welcome to it, but it sounds like that’s not what you want and there are plenty of other interesting topics here that you might enjoy much more. (How about “V” starring Firefly alums Morena Baccarin and Alan Tudyk?
).
Can’t say I’ll miss it since “Sarah Connor” was more watchable and Fox cancelled it.
Have never personally watched the show, but sucks for Dollhouse fans, Shows get Canceled every year, both good and bad, TSCC, Las Vegas 2 years ago (strike hurt that one big time), Without A Trace atleast had one good year left, this show does have a cult following, what i still do not understand is if the show has low viewership yet this is the longest post I have seen on this website in quite some time ( Be Happy Fans atleast This show might get a proper ending ) unlike some shows *las Vegas* cough cough
… let me add to AO’s comment that those employed by any show aren’t just the show-writers, producers, and actors, but also production assistants and crew — who really aren’t paid all that well and aren’t likely to have a fancy bankroll.
On another note, I am both sympathetic and frustrated by those who seem to seek out extreme fandom simply to antagonize them. First off, with a couple of exceptions, this thread seems to be, in order of volume, (1) a thread of people accusing Whedonites of being rabid fans, (2) a swath of people with fairly neutral comments (from “it wasn’t so good, i’m not surprised it was cancelled” to “i liked it, but i’m not surprised it was cancelled”), and then finally (3) agitated fans. But what seems particularly telling is that, failing to observe rabid fandom on this message board, there have been several posts where it seems people find some excessive comment from another board and repost it here simply to rebuke it.
I am sympathetic to those people, because, to a certain degree, I have a morbid curiosity in those who hold viewpoints very different from my own. I have visited message boards of communities whose opinions genuinely scare me senseless. Several times, I have been tempted to post, but to what purpose? I have no chance of convincing them otherwise.
I used to frequent other message boards but have settled more solidly on TVBTN in large part because, for all the counterexamples, TVBTN readers seem to be the least “rabid” group of both administrators and message board posters. I’ve strayed a bit from my original point, but I’ll leave with a different message.
Thanks, TVBTN!
Fox sucks!
They cancel a great show,
they should have put it somewhere else than Friday,
and put more promo on it.
If Fox had nurture the Dollhouse to its maturity,
it could be a big rating cow for Fox!
Last year Terminator, and this year Dollhouse,
Fox, you break my heart again!
Well, let’s put it this way.
If some of us are tired of the way Whedon’s fanbase has persistently harassed and alienated other elements of genre fandom (the Browncoats never tired of mocking Star Trek and its fandom, which they seemed to think they were going to supplant at the conventions)–well–we can’t very well take them on at their own fanboards. Because they’ll shut us out. Fair enough–their boards, their rules.
However, if they choose to try and use forums like this, which they had nothing to do with starting or administering, as a means of defending what are, quite simply, indefensible ratings, and slamming Seidman’s perfectly commonplace observations of the piss poor performance Dollhouse has posted since its premiere (heh, alliteration is my life) as some kind of personal anti-Whedon crusade–why should they consider themselves above a little return-slamming?
Whedonesque has made a minor pasttime of making fun of this site ever since Dollhouse got renewed. A renewal we now know was not a triumph for the show’s fans, but merely a stay of execution.
Where are the apologies? None of the people who run this site have said one negative word about the show. They simply pointed out the ratings were not good enough to warrant it staying on the air. They were right. Plenty of Whedon fans know this–actually, plenty of Whedon fans actually don’t like Dollhouse very much, and are deeply sorry he ever thought of it–but did they ever defend Seidman & Co? No, they were fair game, because they dared to say Joss Whedon’s low-rated show was getting low ratings.
So the administrators of this site have been classy about this, to say the least.
But many others who have had to bear the insufferable smugness of the Whedonites are not quite done turning the other cheek yet.
So prepare to get mooned.
Hey J R, you’re a poet and no one knows it!
O Bloody Hell says:
“There are people who need to be bitch-slapped, and that would certainly apply to anyone who makes that comment but refuses to watch FlashForward and/or Dollhouse simply because the shows ‘make them have to think’. You don’t deserve inventive television, because you don’t want to actually have anything that actually invents.”
This is cute. Do you “bitch-slap” anyone else on account of their “refusal” to go along with your special perspicacity, tough guy? Maybe pile on a bit afterward with the victim did/did-not (or both) “deserve it” wild card?
I thought it wasn’t a half bad show, but at the start of the season I was saying it would merely have to beat House repeats with a 1.3 to pull a full order at its uber-low prices, but then it pulled a 0.8…and House pulled an expected 1.2.
So so long, Dollhouse, you will not be missed, but for a couple hundred thousand fanatics.
@UH
My comment was a joke at its low ratings.
It doesn’t surprise me at all
Well obviously this was just a confirmnation. We knew all along Dollhouse was axed. It just took FOX a while to officially announce it. All the airdates were planned already.
I know I suggested this idea here before and was mocked for it but seriously, could someone please explain to me why selling this show into syndication wouldn’t work?
Rob? Bill? Anyone? Bueller?
Well for syndication a series usually needs around 80-100 episodes. For a drama a series could be sold at a lower amount since it runs an hour, but the more eps the more profitable the series is. For Dollhouse to even blink at a syndication deal it would have to be on for atleast 4 seasons and even then that wouldnt work out. If you were referring to the other kind of syndication then FOX could try but the series seems to expensive for that treatment.
A distinction should probably be made between Dollhouse fans and Whedonites. I’m a huge fan of most of Joss’s work, Firefly and Buffy especially. Angel wasn’t very good until the last season, but I’ve watched the entire Buffy box set 3 times and Firefly at least 4.
Dollhouse just wasn’t very good though. I think you’ll find a lot of “Whedonites” feel the same way– the majority, even. The people desperately trying to save the show, writing essays, creating websites, emailing executives, and calling everyone else stupid, they really are the minority.
Being a fan of an artist doesn’t mean you have to love everything they do. Paul McCartney is possibly the best rock musician to ever live, but that Christmas song he wrote (which we’ll all be hearing constantly very soon) is quite possibly the worst Christmas song I have ever heard.
I’m looking forward to Joss’s next project, and I’m selfishly relieved that so much talent (some of the writers and some of the actors) won’t be tied up with it anymore.
As usual there are a few people with the obligatory “it should be on another night” complaints. I understand why people say that and am sorry that your show is gone since I know that I don’t like when my shows are cancelled, but be realistic if you’re going to complain about the night. Fox has 10 hours of programming a week, 2 of which are considered horrible (Fridays) and most of the rest already dedicated to specific shows that are staples on those nights (Idol, 24, etc.) so anyone complaining about it being on a bad night needs to realize the lack of options for it to be anywhere else. What other night would have been a good idea, knowing what other shows are on those nights? Fox was probably thew wrong channel for the show yet I don’t think that it would have fit on any other channel.
Not a huge surprise…an end to a strange show that never blossomed. If they only showed epitaph one as the season premiere, I wonder how much would be different.
Dan, I was referring to original syndication, the way that Star Trek or Baywatch or Sam Raimi’s Hercules and Xena went where they were sold to whatever local nets were willing to pick them up.
SHelly – thats what I thought you meant. Its rare for a series to get that treatment, especially a cancelled one with already low numbers on a broadcast network so no thats unlikely to happen.
Dan, I’m pretty sure both Star Trek and Baywatch were huge in syndication after they failed on a regular broadcast network.
No, I’m not saying that Dollhouse necessarily has the type of appeal those shows did but at least Whedon and Co. should check out the syndication option unless there’s a very good reason they can’t.
Good riddance.
Shelly, I’m going to call the Gunsmoke rule on you. Star Trek: The Next Generation (because that’s the one that was in first-run syndication) and Baywatch were during a time when there was more than ONE scripted first-run show in syndication. Because right now we have ONE. That’s it.
And Star Trek doesn’t really fit into this scenario, unless you want to wait nearly 20 years to have a reboot of the series return to your TV.
I’ve blogged on this, basically using the US Census Bureau you can see Whedon’s core fanbase for Dollhouse (males 15-29 White) are about 25 million, he got less than 10% of them. By contrast, Gossip Girl a much cheaper show got about ten percent of the roughly 22 million White female 10-24 (assuming GG skews about 5 years younger) population.
Joss Whedon at his peak pulled 5.4 million with Buffy. That was in the late 1990’s in the go-go “end of history” attitude. That was with a “doomed/tragic romance” with Buffy/Angel (i.e. the forerunner of Twilight) that pulled in lots of girls. He has never been able to draw in significant amounts of male viewers, and indeed does stuff story wise that REPEL most male viewers:
*Competition over women among men, male characters lacking honor, friendship, loyalty, courage, etc.
*Not much male cooperation, indeed almost constant conflict, often but not always over women (something men find repellent since it can in real life lead to violence).
*”Ideal Men” such as Angel, Captain Mal, Spike, etc. tend to be women’s conceptions of men: not particularly smart, physically dominant, lacking the male trait of endurance, oriented around women in their existence and indeed emotionally dependent on them.
The sadly canceled “Life,” or “Burn Notice” or “Chuck” or even “the Mentalist” touch on these themes. They are far, far more masculine than anything Whedon ever wrote, including Firefly/Serenity. Meanwhile, lacking romance, wealth, status, power, and shopping/relationships for women the way “Gossip Girl” does, “Dollhouse” had little female appeal despite a large female cast. DH was neither fish nor fowl and thus failed. While being really, really expensive to produce.
Can Whedon survive? I don’t see any return to “Buffy” ability to turn out a Twilight-like “doomed romance” that can churn in the tweens. I see no ability to do a mature female appealing romance/relationship show (ala early Gilmore Girls). I see zero ability to even know what the hell male viewers want. I mean, could Whedon write for Baen Books as “Joe Wisdom” or something? No. Sure “Dr. Horrible” was a fun experiment costing almost nothing — but who thinks Neil Patrick Harris is a male-appealing leading man who will draw in fans the way say, Liam Neeson did in “Taken?”
At least with Chuck I know that his character is there to “save the day” and “get the girl” and that the girl will be well worth getting. Along with humor that indicates a passing familiarity with life outside writing/TV development/Academia, i.e. crummy retail jobs most folks have worked at least once in their life.
It just isn’t the 1990’s anymore, no more easy money, hard times equals I better be entertained. Whedon is unlikely to be the only casualty either.
I know how to save “Dollhouse.”
If CBS did a (sorta) renewal of the worst show in the history of television (“Jericho”) just because “fans” sent tons of peanuts in to them, surely there’s hope for “Dollhouse.”
Everyone should go to their local dollar store, buy up all their cheap, crappy dolls, cut their heads off and send them en masse to Fox with pleas to renew “Dollhouse” for at least a back nine.
We can make it happen.
By the way…I was being sarcastic. Don’t want people writing long, horribly arduous posts about me because of a facetious comment…
Mr Seidman, isn’t this enough proof to see pisher is just a troll with a loud mouth. Can’t you block his IP or something. I don’t like Dollhouse and couldn’t care less about it’s cancellation but what this troll here is doing is not acceptable.
I suggest to everyone to ignore him, he already ruined the other rating site. He’s ruining this one too, there is no room for intelligent discussion with him hanging around.
Whiskey enscapulated everything I wanted to say, but far better than I could manage. Kudos.
And this from Mark:-
“The thing about trolling is, it goes both ways (and I’m not accusing you of trolling by the way.) Yes, there are people cackling in glee here because they either found the show offensive or they’re tired of the Whedon fanbase. But there are also Whedon fans out there who are posting all over the internet right now about how the rest of us are all idiots for not being able to appreciate the “genius” of the show, and also anything else Joss Whedon touches. Joss Whedon is unique in that his audience is very small in comparative terms and yet they’re extremely vocal, but it isn’t just that: his fans aren’t just fans of his TV shows but of Whedon himself, they’ve created a cult of personality around the man which, frankly, almost tempts me to troll certain forums (I try to resist this temptation) because I just want to shake Whedon’s fans by the shoulders and scream, Shatner-fashion, “Buffy was a frigging TV show! And it was lousy the last two seasons! Will you people frigging get lives?!” (I have the exact same reaction to Star Wars fans if that’s any consolation.)”
Even if you’re the slightest fan of Whedon, and I was until the last seasons of Buffy and the man’s public tantrums turned me off, I wanted nothing to do with the fanbase.
They’re nutters and it’s ironic to hear them complaining about TSCC fans when their behaviour and attiude to the network and people not interested in their show has been just as bad.
“Mr Seidman, isn’t this enough proof to see pisher is just a troll with a loud mouth. Can’t you block his IP or something. I don’t like Dollhouse and couldn’t care less about it’s cancellation but what this troll here is doing is not acceptable.”
You mean by pointing out the appalling way Whedonesques have acted towards this site? You want him banning for that?
Yeah, good luck.
The column inches this show has had seems to be in inverse proportion to it’s ratings…
This squashes the feeble hope that the unwavering loyalty of (statistically) 2 million people at the onset would beat out things like ego and immediate returns that lead all of the broadcast networks.
In a place called perfect Fox would have taken a page out of FX’s playbook as seen with ‘It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia’. Let it glide along under the radar for a season or two, any night would do, nurture it, incrementally build on a small avid fan base, add Danny DeVito to the cast, and wind up with a hit (and in that case the most awkwardly funny sci-fi drama ever.) Or the executives and shareholders could have simply brought in the programming heads and philosophies of the sister cable channels to the networks long ago, then in theory, with a more hands-off governance, we wouldn’t encounter as many situations like this. I mean, who’s better off and who are we better off with: USA or NBC?
It would be a little more difficult in this case anyway though, the radar thing, with something apparently so controversial as to elicit a zillion comments every time its name is mentioned anywhere ever. At least Fox listened and gave us 26 episodes. That’s more than most get.
At least we still have ‘Fringe’. That’s not just a lower ratings threshold for Fox. That’s fans. That’s Abrams. And Fox still not being quite as bad, being a little different, more tolerant/patient. If this were ABC we’d obviously get a routine response of ’screw you, fans, watch the last three open ended episodes Saturdays at 10 over the summer, and now stay tuned for another lame fluff soap/reality show, apparently from the producers of Extreme Makeover…’
There is solace in knowing in a parallel universe Dollhouse lives on UPN, Lou Dobbs is elected president, PD becomes the first show to jump TV/movie/TV, and Glenn Beck really can shoot blood from his eyes.
In short: cable: still cult friendlier, Fox: commendable and slightly more daring (by 13 eps), “Gossip Girl a much cheaper show”: in how many ways…
NBC cancelled Southland.
CBS cancelled Jericho.
SCI-FI Channel canccelled Dresden Files & Painkiller Jane.
Loads of shows get cancelled by lots of different channels.
But Whedon seems to be different for some reaosn. He seems to be the only one who’s victimised.
Maria, FYI–the administrator of that ‘other site’ has repeatedly said he likes my posts, and that traffic there increases when I’m around.
I’m guessing nobody at either site has said anything similar about you.
Aw.
Whiskey, you may have blogged about Whedon, but you haven’t looked at the data much–even Buffy had a predominantly male viewership, though it did very well with women for a genre show (not as well as Xena, obviously). It was actually one of WB’s most male-oriented shows in terms of viewers, and they did the Angel spin-off to reach yet more male viewers.
http://www.pub.umich.edu/daily/1999/sep/09-28-99/arts/arts7.html
Dollhouse is Whedon’s most male-oriented show ever, and I hardly think FOX had a problem with that–but it wasn’t reaching enough of that core audience, or adding enough women to the mix.
The internet does not accurately reflect viewing trends. The people who post about TV shows online are an extremely poor sampling of the overall audience.
But I suspect even at Whedonesque, you’d have a hard time getting up much of a Sadie Hawkins Day event.
Too Bad.
I personally feel that the show was just finding its footing. Who knows now what if any impact Summer Glau would have on the ratings. If Dawn at the CW wasn’t just targeting females, DH could have done well there. Especially better than Melrose Place.
DOLLHOUSE fans are ignorant.FOX gave Joss a gift in renewing it. You should be thanking the network for giving you a second season.
timpri, I think it’s pretty obvious that DH would have gotten MUCH lower ratings on CW, in pretty much any timeslot they gave it, and most likely would have died even quicker. But you’re right–Whedon’s audience isn’t young or female enough to interest CW. It was atypically older-skewing and male for WB, back when Buffy was on.
In any event, why do people keep assuming Joss Whedon could just walk into any network office, broadcast or cable, and successfully pitch a show? He used both his and Dushku’s connections at FOX to get a show on the air that probably nobody else would have bought–and certainly not for the money FOX shelled out when DH and Firefly were in development.
FOX is not Whedon’s problem. Whedon’s problem, as ever, is Whedon.
BTW , nobody would care about DH cancellation on this web site without pisher and Xfever
.They created more fans of DH in this posts than the show ever had in his history 
Well then, I’m sure we’ll see the ratings go up for the remaining episodes.
Or alternatively, maybe you overestimate our influence–and BADLY underestimate how much more annoyed most people are with Whedon’s boosters than with his detractors.
“I suggest to everyone to ignore him, he already ruined the other rating site. He’s ruining this one too, there is no room for intelligent discussion with him hanging around.”
Sure there is. Just ignore him. How hard is that?
I’m detecting a trend here: Whedon fans frustated over the cancellation are starting to lash out on this thread at Pisher. As much as his comments about the show/fandom/Whedon are definitely intended to poke the fans (and I know you say you aren’t a fan of Dollhouse but it really sounds to me like you’re a Whedon fan anyway) they haven’t crossed the line into incivility. He doesn’t swear or personally insult anyone specifically, just the show/Whedon/fandom. I know the Whedon fans here are sad right now but taking away someone else’s right to express themselves is just being petty and spiteful. And as for the idea that Pisher somehow has less right to be posting here because he’s a “troll”–well it seems to me people’s only evidence for that accusation is that Pisher obviously, viscerally dislikes Dollhouse/Whedon/the fandom. But TVBTN is not intended to be a pro-Whedon booster site like Whedonesque and as much as Pisher viscerally dislikes all things Whedon, there are people who positively worship the ground Whedon walks on to the point where they feel the need to insult the rest of us who don’t get the genius of his shows and they get to post here too. And at Variety and the Hollywood Reporter and EW and really anywhere there is a message board thread about anything Whedon-related, and inevitably when Dollhouse and its ratings are the subject you will get that Whedonite poster who mentions that the show was just too smart for the rest of us buffoons. Trolling is a subjective thing.
Why do people, when they can’t argue back, either due to lack of arguments or the intelligence for the task, try to shut up other people calling them trolls, and asking for their banning? It is amazing that so many have this soviet mentality on a US board. Don’t think that more people don’t think like him or subscribe his opinions, we just don’t have mob mentality. Since he said it, there is no point in repeating it. That, yes, would be annoying.
Dollhouse had more than it’s fair chance. It was brain dead the last season, but nobody had the guts to pull the plug. They finally did. No surprise. What I still don’t get is why they gave it a 2nd season.
well im not shocked. FOX Please get TSCC back for 13 eps to finsih the story?
fox : son of a bitc*
“BTW , nobody would care about DH cancellation on this web site without pisher and Xfever
.They created more fans of DH in this posts than the show ever had in his history 
”
Ha. Can’t work out if that’s an insult to us or an insult to Whedon.
Lol.
Julia, forgive me if I’m being dense but I’m too young to remember Gunsmoke or Star Trek and I didn’t understand what you said.
I know that like Hercules and Xena, Legend of the Seeker is also on first-run syndication now. So, again, what’s the problem because I don’t get it because for some reason I’m slow on the uptake about this. Are you saying the network affiliates couldn’t afford to buy Dollhouse in syndication?
The sad irony is I’ve gotten more entertainment out of reading this thread than I did from just about every episode of Dollhouse (Epitaph One and Belonging being the exceptions).
shelly,
“The Gunsmoke Rule”: No comparing the ratings (or in this case, economics) of any individual show this season to a show in any season except the previous one. “How could CBS have canceled Gunsmoke, for some dreck like CSI? Gunsmoke pulled a 40 rating in 1960!“
Well so far cancellation wise we have basically what I expected
ABC: Hank, Eastwick
CW: The Beautiful Life
FOX: Brothers, Dollhouse
NBC: Trauma
Theres only 1 noticeable series not cancelled yet thats not on this list? Anyone wanna take a guess on what it is?
I love Joss Whedon. There, I said it. That said, I don’t like the fanbase of JW. I like individual fans, but as a collective, JW fans are fantastically annoying.
Fox have stood by DH when every single other network would have canned it in the summer. Season 1 was poor, and season 2 didn’t start any better. (That said the last ep was one of the best).
I’m sad that lots of people have lost their jobs on the show, but I’m also pleased as it frees up Whedon to take on something else. Something that, hopefully, will be of a much higher quality than dollhouse.
@Dan Three Rivers?
I wanted to like Dollhouse, but I did not like the concept or subject matter. I find this true for Dexter, Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy as well. I liked the acting and the writing is good for these shows, but the shows focus just isn’t what I want to watch week after week.
Jon – Correct. All of the series on the list, I had predicted that would get axed in November around this time, got the axe but the 1 series that hasnt been pulled yet is Three Rivers. And CBS is a network that likes axing series quickly (along with FOX & CW) so I guess its just a matter of time for Three Rivers.
Shelly, Bill explained the Gunsmoke rule. Yes, Legend of the Seeker is first-run syndication but it is the ONLY scripted first-run syndicated show on the air right now. When Baywatch made the leap scripted content wasn’t nearly unheard of in first-run syndication. With the market the way it is today why would anyone buy a failed show even if they could afford it?
Bill, you nailed it–and what a good name for the rule. Gunsmoke was a fantastic show for much of its twenty year run (well for about eight or nine years, if you want to be picky), but the fact that people actually had the brass to COMPLAIN over it being canceled AFTER TWENTY SEASONS (and LONG ones too–over 600 eps)–doesn’t that really say it all? It’s literally impossible to keep a show on the air so long that nobody will complain about it being canceled.
The show is there to support the network, not the other way around. People actually spent years afterwards saying CBS started going downhill once they canceled Gunsmoke. And they didn’t even have an internet then. I bet there were people peeved about My Mother the Car getting canceled–we just don’t have any angry tweets from those twits.
Simply because a given show was getting such and such ratings when it was canceled doesn’t mean it would be getting the same ratings FOREVER. Fact is, the networks are gradually losing audience to cable and other diversions, and the canceled shows people moan about would be doing even worse than what’s on now. That’s why they got canceled.
And every single one of these shows people moan about came into being because SOMEBODY ELSE’s favorite show got canceled.
DH may not have had 20 seasons, but it had 23 episodes, and that’s more than enough to tell a story. Not anyone’s fault but Whedon’s that the story was told so badly.
Bob, agreed that Whedon needed to let this one go–but he tends to have a hard time doing that. We’ll see if he feels obliged to do Dollhouse comic books, or go pitch a movie. I think maybe he’ll be a bit less clingy than he was about Firefly.
However, there’s no getting around the fact that Whedon has had three projects in a row turn sour on him–Firefly, Serenity, Dollhouse. You can say Serenity was just an extension of Firefly’s failure, but different medium, different studio, different failure.
He needs to stop doing ten different things at once. No more comic books, no more movie scripts (his writing/directing style will never work on the big screen)–come up with a solid show idea, let somebody else cast it (he sucks at casting), spend a long time on the early scripts, and settle for a realistic budget on a network that can accept the size audience he can attract now.
Or he can go the self-producing for the web route–I just don’t think that’s going to satisfy him. Or keep him living in the manner to which he has become accustomed.
He’s too scattered, as a writer and a producer. He needs to tackle the next major project as if it’s his very last one. Because it could be.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Whedon will rise again.
And then again.
and again.
etc.
I wouldn’t even say that Dollhouse has 2 million loyal viewers. The majority of viewers are casual viewers like me. I found Dollhouse mildly entertaining, tried to watch it when it was on, didn’t go out of my way to find any episodes that I missed, and really don’t care much that it was cancelled.
I think the earliest that CBS will (officially) cancel Three Rivers is next Monday, after the ratings come in for the Very Special Episode with Mandy Patinkin.
“I wanted to like Dollhouse, but I did not like the concept or subject matter. I find this true for Dexter, Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy as well. I liked the acting and the writing is good for these shows, but the shows focus just isn’t what I want to watch week after week.”
That’s a smart, very apt way of putting it. That’s a lot of what I felt week after week when I watched: even when the show wasn’t offending me, even when Tahmoh wasn’t boring me, even when the show was ostensibly firing on all cylinders, it never really held my interest. The basic premise/setting just wasn’t something I wanted to revisit every week. I tuned in for Eliza Dushku originally and then found that I just didn’t want to see her in this vehicle. I do hope she, along with Olivia Williams and Enver Glokaj (sp?) all land on their feet somewhere. Especially Enver, the dude can act.
If only someone had warned me last summer it might play out this way, I wouldn’t feel so blindsided by it all.
officegurl, we warned you *last season* it would turn out like this.
OK, we were wrong then.
Better late than never?
saw this coming
alot of tscc fans gloting thinking dollhouse killed TSCC
thats just not so
too bad i liked this show
what are the chances it could be picked up by another channel?
(crickets in the background)
yeah thats what i thought
too bad with fringe on the down slope im worried about that show too
if i like a show odds are it gets canceled
grr arrrgh
At least it wasn’t Chuck. . . yet.
Thanks for the definition and explanations, Bill and Julia. I see what you’re saying now.
Btw I was only citing other syndicated shows as examples of first-run syndications of previously-failed shows. I definitely wasn’t comparing Dollhouse’s ratings to Gunsmoke or Star Trek (I’d like to think I’ve learned enough about the way ratings work from here not to do that!)
Dan said:
“Theres only 1 noticeable series not cancelled yet thats not on this list? Anyone wanna take a guess on what it is?”
You mentioned more than once that Modern Family was going to be canceled early. Obviously it’s not on the list.
AO, I believe you’re confused. No one to my knowledge has suggested Modern Family, the best performing of the new ABC sitcoms, was going to be canceled early, or I’d have been all over them
Hi Bill,
I recall Dan making several predictions before the Fall Season had yet begun. He’s been quite quite accurate overall, rather impressively imo, but I truly recall that he mentioned that Hank and Modern Family would be canceled to allow for a one hour block of “The Middle” and “Cougar Town”. Thus allowing ABC to schedule 2 two-hour dramas at on Wednesdays in addition to the one-hour comedy block that those shows would have made up.
I certainly haven’t seen him mention that in awhile, but considering how firmly he backed the idea back around August and/or early September then it’s omission very much stood out to me when he asked that question.
AO, while I don’t specifically remember Dan making that prediction, I do recall a lot of people seeming to think Modern Family was going to be a loser, and would drag Cougar Town down. Funny how things worked out. Having seen the pilot in May, and the way the entire sales team found the pilot hilarious, I had no doubt Modern Family was going to work, but I guess the description wasn’t funny to some people?
>”I do hope she, along with Olivia Williams and Enver Glokaj (sp?) all land on their feet somewhere. Especially Enver, the dude can act.”
He really can. I hope some network person watched the show enough to pick that up, and hires him.
As far as acting jobs go, his was one of the hardest in the business: to be a different character every week and make it believable, along with his core character, and he’s just amazing. He’s like a method actor, he inhabits his characters that well.
If only the leads of the show were half as good as him, the show might have WAIT STOP DON’T QUOTE THIS FOR THE BINGO CARD I TAKE IT BACK
i cant believe fox stays afloat, always canceling cult fav’s, we need a cult TV station that plays good TV shows like Dollhouse.
Dollhouse fans should think the TSCC fans. Its ratings would have been worse last season without TSCC fans watching. It may have only been a case of too lazy to change the channel from the lousy Dollhouse show, but when that audience left, Dollhouse’s dismal ratings got even worse.
Well, TSCC was my favorite show. As such, I was mad at Dollhouse for staying on the air when TSCC was canceled, so I am rather happy now (wasn’t really digging Dollhouse this season anyway).
Reilly’s and Beckman’s comments that they were going to get eleventy billion whiny emails and go to hell over this putrid waste of airtime said it all. In fact, I sincerely hope it said absolutely everything to every single network executive out there. If I were in charge of hearing pitches and Joss Whedon came into the network to pitch something, I’d just say, “No thanks. Bye.” Because, let me tell you something, if you don’t say that, not only will you be sure to get an awful show when all is said and done, but you’re going to wind up with his certifiable fangeekbase — who will send you eleventy billion whiny emails and make you feel like you’re in hell.
Do you really want that? Do you?
“Reilly’s and Beckman’s comments that they were going to get eleventy billion whiny emails and go to hell over this putrid waste of airtime said it all. In fact, I sincerely hope it said absolutely everything to every single network executive out there. If I were in charge of hearing pitches and Joss Whedon came into the network to pitch something, I’d just say, “No thanks. Bye.” Because, let me tell you something, if you don’t say that, not only will you be sure to get an awful show when all is said and done, but you’re going to wind up with his certifiable fangeekbase — who will send you eleventy billion whiny emails and make you feel like you’re in hell.
Do you really want that? Do you?”
Yeah, all true. You have a chance of getting merchandising, but at its premiere it got 4.7 million, after a blitz, and in less than a season’s worth of episodes (adding them both together), the figure had halved.
And the fanbase… The only bigger nuts are the TSCC crowd.
“Dollhouse fans should think the TSCC fans. Its ratings would have been worse last season without TSCC fans watching. It may have only been a case of too lazy to change the channel from the lousy Dollhouse show, but when that audience left, Dollhouse’s dismal ratings got even worse.”
Well, at the risk of being offensive, I’m going to say you’re in error.
Check your figures. Dollhouse improved on TSCC’s even worse lead-in figures, most nights they were paired together.
And really, all these TSCC fans can’t use a remote control? Are they that dumb as a group?
Well given their comments on the internet over the past six months, that’s a distinct possibility.
@ghost – I assume that’s saracasm?! “Cult” in modern terms pretty much means “it’s half decent, but no-one watches it”. Dollhouse meets half of that requirement.
I never said Modern Family would be axed early. I did mention before the season began that Modern Family, COugar Town, and FlashForward would get full seasons, Hank and Eastwick would be axed and The Middle and The Forgotten would be 50/50 for new episodes. On that note The Middle ended up getting a full season along with the other two comedies and and The Forgotten did get 5 additional eps after all. If anything I would suggest Modern Family would have been the higher rated comedy of the trio, but I would never suggest a cancellation for that series. That show is the only one that I can safely say out of all the new series would likely get an early renewal. And if anyones still hasnt guessed, The show that still hasnt been axed that I predicted would be on the cancellation list by now is “Three Rivers”
Jim, I know what you mean. It’s like those Elvis Presley fans who celebrated when Frank Sinatra died.
“Check your figures. Dollhouse improved on TSCC’s even worse lead-in figures, most nights they were paired together.
And really, all these TSCC fans can’t use a remote control? Are they that dumb as a group?
Well given their comments on the internet over the past six months, that’s a distinct possibility.”
I was/am a huge TSCC fan. I intentionally watched Dollhouse after TSCC even though I thought it was just an ok show because I wanted to support the pairing of the two shows in hopes that others would do the same, and both shows could be saved. I know a lot of other people who did the same.
Dollhouse improved on TSCC’s ratings because, in addition to Dollhouse fans, there were TSCC fans that were tuning in to support the show. Once TSCC ended, Dollhouse numbers lowered to the true Dollhouse fanbase as angry TSCC viewers stopped watching. And Dollhouse’s numbers have continued on their downward spiral since. TSCC is not responsible for Dollhouse’s better ratings in the first season, but they did give them a nice boost.
wow …really a nice boost
cooome on LOL
Since this is a board that likes stats, here are the top 10 posters on this board as of 7:02 am:
-/- pisher: 38
-/- XFEver: 23
+/O UH: 13
+/O usedtolovecoco: 7
O/O Harold: 6
+/+ shelly: 6
+/+ Budo: 6
O/O Dan: 6
+/O squiggleslash: 5
O/O Bill Gorman: 5
I posted two interpretations of opinions, since categorizing them was subjective — in particular, it was generally clear to me who didn’t like Whedon/Dollhouse, but it was unclear whether certain people were in favor of Whedon/Dollhouse (e.g., comments like “oh well, but no one really expected S3″. The first category is taking a very generous view of who is in favor of DH (not necessarily Whedon) which includes comments such as: “I love Joss’s creations but they are just not suited for the mainstream.” whereas the second category considers these neutral. + are favorable to JW/DH, – unfavorable, and O neutral.
If you feel as if I miscategorized you, feel free to respond.
Interpretations of the above information can vary, but, for my purposes, I would like to suggest that on TVBTN the general feeling is that board postings are not being overwhelmed by vocal pro-Whedon minorities, but, perhaps, the reverse is true. Indeed the 1 top anti-Whedon poster exceeds the combined top 5 generously assigned pro-Whedon posters (but barely).
Since I would count myself as a fan of Whedon, and, for pisher and Robert’s sake, then: “I apologize if some Whedon fans have been mean to you, Robert.” On the other hand, I never post on or read Whedonesque, so I can’t really speak for them. But that is the whole point of contention isn’t it? Is it fair to take the entirety of a particular fandom and make them responsible for a subgroup’s actions — particularly the more extreme categories? I know that, regardless of whether or not they are “extreme”, their opinions can be hurtful and so I sincerely do want to show Robert my support (but I think he also recognizes that he has the support of quite a number of Whedon fans just from reading his message board and has pretty tough skin, as most people who run websites in “heated” areas would). Perhaps more sincerely, though, I echo my earlier statement in saying thanks to Rob, Bill, and all else involved in providing such a great site.
chaos amoeba: So, if this thread is anything to go by, those in the anti-DOLLHOUSE camp are fewer but more vocal.
But opinions are just opinions – everybody’s got their own and everybody’s, unless they’re in a position of power, are worthless to everyone but themselves & anyone they can get to listen to them.
Yes it is a great site but I come here for the factual information splendidly presented by Robert, Bill and by a limited number of posters.
“chaos amoeba: So, if this thread is anything to go by, those in the anti-DOLLHOUSE camp are fewer but more vocal. ”
I’d argue that those in the anti-camp also include those who a) saw Season 1 ads but didn’t tune and b) those who watched the premiere but didn’t return and c) those who watched out of loyalty to certain performers (I’m guessing Penkitt has his fans, I know Eliza does) but weren’t particularly fans of the writing or subject manner.
I watched all of season 1 out of faith in Whedon. My mistake. It was crap from start to finish. Dollhouse isn’t Buffy, it isn’t Angel and it isn’t Firefly. It isn’t even as good as Fringe or Terminator or most other recent sci-fi/genre shows on Fox. It’s basically just a huge misfire from Whedon, and I’m glad it’s gone.
the show is unbelievably amazing, it has some of the best writing around, its genious, its soooooo good. How could they give it a friday night slot…they are stupid, I hate them Ill never understand these @ssholes, they better finish it at least the last ep was mind blowing.
298 responses in this thread.
Why, was this some sort of surprise?
Of course Dollhouse was going to be canceled.
Amazing.
Joss, call me! I have a way more interesting concept than Dollhouse that you can produce – and even cast Summer and Eliza in! What’s not to like? Hell, I even have roles we can cast Lena Headey and Thomas Dekker in and get all the TSCC fans back!
If Leverage doesn’t get a third season, I even have a role we could cast Christian Kane in!
300 posts and counting…
Unlikely as it seems, what happens if Dollhouse’s rating actually increase in December?
Dollhouse: Frustrating Epic or Epically Frustrating?
So I haven’t been around much since the news broke that Dollhouse was being cancelled. No, I wasn’t curled into a weeping mess or playing with my BtVS action figures to dull the pain & re-live the good ol days; it was something much simpler. I was reading.
And there was a lot to read.
Articles by professional TV critics, bloggers by the dozens, comments by the thousand. Literally. Just between AICN, Whedonesque & Tvbythenumbers, there was around 1500 posts. I’m not even going to discuss twitter other than the fact that it takes 5000 tweets to get something trending & the cancellation news had the dollhouse hashtag rising throughout the day. They scaled the gauntlet from anger, resignation, vengeful, funny & thoughtful. Me? I was frustrated.
I first felt the tugs of frustration before the series even began production. Yes, Whedon & crew had just come off of Dr.Horrible, which turned out to be a financial & critical success no matter your opinion on it’s quality, but the wave of over hype & excitement had me a bit wary. I think a lot of people felt that way but, as the machine churns on, you get caught up in it; the speculation, the anticipation. Fox had given it a prime spot on Tuesday! New format 90 seconds commercial only! Yay!
Then someone wasn’t paying attention when Joss pitched the show as a film noir-ish look at defining identity. Too depressing. Too dark. Too confusing a setting. Too frustrating. It gets delayed, then shoved to Friday Night Death Slot. Most everyone saw the writing on the wall then. But wait! They are pairing it with T:SCC and they are going to promote it as a sci-fi block! Yay!
Then the ratings come out for the first few episodes. T:SCC is beating Dollhouse in overall viewers but Dollhouse is beating T:SCC in the demo, which stayed that way until T:SCC’s cancellation. The trademark dialogue is lacking but not non-existent. Overall, the pathos for the subject matter is not there. Ballard is struggling but he comes off as such a dumbass you wonder how he passed his FBI entrance exam. The dolls are just sort of there. There is no reflection on the results; not by the dolls themselves because they can’t, not by the people that hire them because they are there, then gone and not by the people inside the Dollhouse because they are there to serve, not ponder. Most of the audience finds this unrelatable. I, who have been at the whims of a few directors & producers & overall goose steppers, do not. I have frequently been on the giving & receiving end of, “It’s not personal; it’s just business” tag line. But episode 6 is coming up, penned & directed by Whedon. Reilly says that they are going to back off on the notes & “let Joss be Joss”. Dancing in the fandom. Finally!
After ‘Man on the Street’ , which I thought was one of the tightest Joss scripts ever, Dollhouse became progressively better but still inconsistent. Mo Ryan of the SanFran Chronicle recently said that she prefers a show that will have a few C episodes mixed in with outstanding A episodes rather than a show that will constant deliver B’s. I would too. But it’s frustrating to watch.
The ratings bottom out. But the DVR is huge! But the DVR doesn’t matter. The final 13th episode of Season 1 – arguably the best episode of the entire series – won’t be on the network. DVD only. Frustrating. But it’s renewed! Wha? The execs are on our side! They are getting creative too! It’s not about “numbers”, it’s about stability & vision & playing nice & lending a helping hand….warm fuzzies for everyone!
But there is another delay. And Brothers & ‘Til Death. Groans are induced. The crossover promos between the line-up develop into actual gagging. Fans of the show ramp up there own vids/websites on how they would like to see the show promoted. You can feel their frustration clogging up every bit of frame. The second season starts and the episodes are shown out of order (3rd ep was supposed to be the 2nd). Now you can finally feel the producers frustration as well, shoving weaker eps to the forefront, so they can save meatier episodes for sweeps.
Let’s talk about sweeps for a minute.
I think FOX studio has gone above & beyond for this show. I’m not just talking about the renewal. In retrospect, the “miracle” renewal made business sense. It’s cheaper to renew a show with an established base than to take a chance on a newer, possibly more expensive series for a Friday night slot. Because it’s an in house production, the licensing is cheaper. The budget was reduced and the main set has already been built. On the other hand FOX network, more specifically the PR department, is run by monkeys. Horrible promos aired sporadically, incorrect dates, contradicting press releases just days apart…frustrating fucking monkeys.
The first 4 episodes of the 2nd season are tracking for me the same as the last half of the episodes for the 1st season. The acting is better, scripts are tighter as they get used to the 6 act process instead of the 3 act, the subtext is becoming actual text (blurg but whatever) and if you haven’t started relating to these characters, it’s too fucking late now. No one cares about grabbing new viewers at this point. No, scratch that. I don’t think they really cared about getting new viewers from the start of Season 2. That in itself is frustratratus maximus. But if you are relating to the characters & the storylines, so far the “1 step forward; 2 steps back” has been interesting. And yes, frustrating.
So can I get any more frustrated at this point? Probably. It won’t be with posts revelling in the cancellation in attempts to “shut down the Whedonites” – and seriously that will never happen. Not because we are so many or so vocal but because we are so used to it – and not because of the delusions of the hapless (MM, I’m talking about you! I’m not ignoring you! Hi!) but because of my own expectations. Yes, I have came back around to the very beginning of the entire Dollhouse journey with anticipation for the final episodes. Summer 2-parter. Alexis 2-parter. Alan 2-parter. Diechan getting hit by stray shell casings, covered in blue slime. Eliza covered in green slime. Secret back lot shoots. Concept meetings without having read the script because it is under wraps. Tim Minear writing through the night, directing the 11th episode.
If we get to see it without having to wait for the DVD, that is. There’s no guarantee.
Fucking frustrating, right?
Dollhouse: Frustrating Epic or Epically Frustrating?
So I haven’t been around much since the news broke that Dollhouse was being cancelled. No, I wasn’t curled into a weeping mess or playing with my BtVS action figures to dull the pain & re-live the good ol days; it was something much simpler. I was reading.
And there was a lot to read.
Articles by professional TV critics, bloggers by the dozens, comments by the thousand. Literally. Just between AICN, Whedonesque & Tvbythenumbers, there was around 1500 posts. I’m not even going to discuss twitter other than the fact that it takes 5000 tweets to get something trending & the cancellation news had the dollhouse hashtag rising throughout the day. They scaled the gauntlet from anger, resignation, vengeful, funny & thoughtful. Me? I was frustrated.
I first felt the tugs of frustration before the series even began production. Yes, Whedon & crew had just come off of Dr.Horrible, which turned out to be a financial & critical success no matter your opinion on it’s quality, but the wave of over hype & excitement had me a bit wary. I think a lot of people felt that way but, as the machine churns on, you get caught up in it; the speculation, the anticipation. Fox had given it a prime spot on Tuesday! New format 90 seconds commercial only! Yay!
Then someone wasn’t paying attention when Joss pitched the show as a film noir-ish look at defining identity. Too depressing. Too dark. Too confusing a setting. Too frustrating. It gets delayed, then shoved to Friday Night Death Slot. Most everyone saw the writing on the wall then. But wait! They are pairing it with T:SCC and they are going to promote it as a sci-fi block! Yay!
Then the ratings come out for the first few episodes. T:SCC is beating Dollhouse in overall viewers but Dollhouse is beating T:SCC in the demo, which stayed that way until T:SCC’s cancellation. The trademark dialogue is lacking but not non-existent. Overall, the pathos for the subject matter is not there. Ballard is struggling but he comes off as such a dumbass you wonder how he passed his FBI entrance exam. The dolls are just sort of there. There is no reflection on the results; not by the dolls themselves because they can’t, not by the people that hire them because they are there, then gone and not by the people inside the Dollhouse because they are there to serve, not ponder. Most of the audience finds this unrelatable. I, who have been at the whims of a few directors & producers & overall goose steppers, do not. I have frequently been on the giving & receiving end of, “It’s not personal; it’s just business” tag line. But episode 6 is coming up, penned & directed by Whedon. Reilly says that they are going to back off on the notes & “let Joss be Joss”. Dancing in the fandom. Finally!
After ‘Man on the Street’ , which I thought was one of the tightest Joss scripts ever, Dollhouse became progressively better but still inconsistent. Mo Ryan of the SanFran Chronicle recently said that she prefers a show that will have a few C episodes mixed in with outstanding A episodes rather than a show that will constant deliver B’s. I would too. But it’s frustrating to watch.
[long post part 2]
The ratings bottom out. But the DVR is huge! But the DVR doesn’t matter. The final 13th episode of Season 1 – arguably the best episode of the entire series – won’t be on the network. DVD only. Frustrating. But it’s renewed! Wha? The execs are on our side! They are getting creative too! It’s not about “numbers”, it’s about stability & vision & playing nice & lending a helping hand….warm fuzzies for everyone!
But there is another delay. And Brothers & ‘Til Death. Groans are induced. The crossover promos between the line-up develop into actual gagging. Fans of the show ramp up there own vids/websites on how they would like to see the show promoted. You can feel their frustration clogging up every bit of frame. The second season starts and the episodes are shown out of order (3rd ep was supposed to be the 2nd). Now you can finally feel the producers frustration as well, shoving weaker eps to the forefront, so they can save meatier episodes for sweeps.
Let’s talk about sweeps for a minute.
I think FOX studio has gone above & beyond for this show. I’m not just talking about the renewal. In retrospect, the “miracle” renewal made business sense. It’s cheaper to renew a show with an established base than to take a chance on a newer, possibly more expensive series for a Friday night slot. Because it’s an in house production, the licensing is cheaper. The budget was reduced and the main set has already been built. On the other hand FOX network, more specifically the PR department, is run by monkeys. Horrible promos aired sporadically, incorrect dates, contradicting press releases just days apart…frustrating fucking monkeys.
The first 4 episodes of the 2nd season are tracking for me the same as the last half of the episodes for the 1st season. The acting is better, scripts are tighter as they get used to the 6 act process instead of the 3 act, the subtext is becoming actual text (blurg but whatever) and if you haven’t started relating to these characters, it’s too fucking late now. No one cares about grabbing new viewers at this point. No, scratch that. I don’t think they really cared about getting new viewers from the start of Season 2. That in itself is frustratratus maximus. But if you are relating to the characters & the storylines, so far the “1 step forward; 2 steps back” has been interesting. And yes, frustrating.
So can I get any more frustrated at this point? Probably. It won’t be with posts revelling in the cancellation in attempts to “shut down the Whedonites” – and seriously that will never happen. Not because we are so many or so vocal but because we are so used to it – and not because of the delusions of the hapless (MM, I’m talking about you! I’m not ignoring you! Hi!) but because of my own expectations. Yes, I have came back around to the very beginning of the entire Dollhouse journey with anticipation for the final episodes. Summer 2-parter. Alexis 2-parter. Alan 2-parter. Diechan getting hit by stray shell casings, covered in blue slime. Eliza covered in green slime. Secret back lot shoots. Concept meetings without having read the script because it is under wraps. Tim Minear writing through the night, directing the 11th episode.
If we get to see it without having to wait for the DVD, that is. There’s no guarantee.
Fucking frustrating, right?
The ratings bottom out. But the DVR is huge! But the DVR doesn’t matter. The final 13th episode of Season 1 – arguably the best episode of the entire series – won’t be on the network. DVD only. Frustrating. But it’s renewed! Wha? The execs are on our side! They are getting creative too! It’s not about “numbers”, it’s about stability & vision & playing nice & lending a helping hand….warm fuzzies for everyone!
But there is another delay. And Brothers & ‘Til Death. Groans are induced. The crossover promos between the line-up develop into actual gagging. Fans of the show ramp up there own vids/websites on how they would like to see the show promoted. You can feel their frustration clogging up every bit of frame. The second season starts and the episodes are shown out of order (3rd ep was supposed to be the 2nd). Now you can finally feel the producers frustration as well, shoving weaker eps to the forefront, so they can save meatier episodes for sweeps.
Let’s talk about sweeps for a minute.
I think FOX studio has gone above & beyond for this show. I’m not just talking about the renewal. In retrospect, the “miracle” renewal made business sense. It’s cheaper to renew a show with an established base than to take a chance on a newer, possibly more expensive series for a Friday night slot. Because it’s an in house production, the licensing is cheaper. The budget was reduced and the main set has already been built. On the other hand FOX network, more specifically the PR department, is run by monkeys. Horrible promos aired sporadically, incorrect dates, contradicting press releases just days apart…frustrating fucking monkeys.
The first 4 episodes of the 2nd season are tracking for me the same as the last half of the episodes for the 1st season. The acting is better, scripts are tighter as they get used to the 6 act process instead of the 3 act, the subtext is becoming actual text (blurg but whatever) and if you haven’t started relating to these characters, it’s too fucking late now. No one cares about grabbing new viewers at this point. No, scratch that. I don’t think they really cared about getting new viewers from the start of Season 2. That in itself is frustratratus maximus. But if you are relating to the characters & the storylines, so far the “1 step forward; 2 steps back” has been interesting. And yes, frustrating.
So can I get any more frustrated at this point? Probably. It won’t be with posts revelling in the cancellation in attempts to “shut down the Whedonites” – and seriously that will never happen. Not because we are so many or so vocal but because we are so used to it – and not because of the delusions of the hapless (MM, I’m talking about you! I’m not ignoring you! Hi!) but because of my own expectations. Yes, I have came back around to the very beginning of the entire Dollhouse journey with anticipation for the final episodes. Summer 2-parter. Alexis 2-parter. Alan 2-parter. Diechan getting hit by stray shell casings, covered in blue slime. Eliza covered in green slime. Secret back lot shoots. Concept meetings without having read the script because it is under wraps. Tim Minear writing through the night, directing the 11th episode.
If we get to see it without having to wait for the DVD, that is. There’s no guarantee.
Fucking frustrating, right?
Really , if by any miracle summer glau and the events that dollhouse have the next couple of episodes , dollhouse got to 1.5 ofr something without DVR , how will FOX re-act to that , i know it’ll be hard after the cancellation , but i am just talking about miracles in here
December 4 —-> Summer Glau Hit episodes
December 11 —-> Something Abou Rossum and Alpha as i heard
December 18 —-> Attic Thing ,
So i think those three events might (miracles really happens) grap some audience , how will FOX react ?
chicc_o the mircales are not of this world
if not even TSCC would still have a chance and this is IMPOSSIBLE eheheh
chaos amoeba – yeah, I think this site has done exactly what it ought to have done and I’m thankful for it: (1) provided information on the ratings. (2) Provided forums to discuss the ratings, with more discussions for shows that more people want to talk about – inevitably the types of show people either love or hate.
People see that as bias, I see it as commonsense. There’s no discussion of House’s ratings week after week because there’s nothing to discuss – they’re high, and even if they dropped 30%, there’s no danger of Fox canceling it.
Why exactly is it that people seem to think Summner Glau is some sort of miracle cure? When did she suddenly become Heather Locklear in people’s minds? Outside of the fanbase that already watches the show, no one has even heard of her. Mention her to the average person you work with who doesn’t visit Whedonesque or TVBTN and you’ll get a blank stare. What exactly is on her resume? Firefly, a one-episode guest spot on Angel, Terminator, and a guest spot on Big Bang Theory based on her Terminator role. No one who isn’t already part of this conversation knows this woman is and I’m assuming the ratings won’t move at all for her episodes. If Dollhouse wanted to stunt cast they should have brought in someone like Sarah Michelle Gellar to bring in the lapsed Buffy fans.
Gutted Dollhouse is cancelled (Im a whedonite i guess) but im not mad at Fox at all. Ratings wise, this show should have gotten cancelled 6 episodes in and certainly cancelled at the end of last season. We got a Season 2 we should never have gotten and im happy about that cause if it had ended with Season 1, you would have been left with the ‘we never really got a chance to see what the show could do’ type feeling. I feel with ‘Belle Chose’ and ‘Belonging’, they’re two of the strongest episodes of the show and if the next 9 episodes keep up the same quality, at least it’ll end on a great note. Fox was fantastic with their patience with the show and yeah the timeslot sucked but If Dollhouse wasnt even one of the best performers on the worst nite, it would have been slaughtered any other day.
Better be an Epitaph Two!!!
Ya, I removed it off of the DVR anyway. SG Universe gets the time slot now.
i really dont want dollhouse to be gone im really mad cuz im in love with the show… im really looking forward to every friday to watch it after smallville…. if the show is cancelled i dont know what to do… im really mad at fox… its one of the best shows… its really deppressing to see it go off like that…. i think they do a wonderful job at making the show please give them one more change despite the fans who watch that show… how do you think they feel about the show.. if the show is done it will never be the same