TiVo Loses 314,000 Subscribers vs. 146,000 in Previous Quarter
Even by the standards of its continuing loss of subscribers, the last quarter was a particularly bad one for TiVo. In the quarter ending October 31, 2009, TiVo’s total subscribers fell 314,000 to 2.76 million, its worst quater ever for subscriber loss, approximately the same level they had in late 2004. That’s now less than 8% the estimated 38 million US DVR households.
TiVo may very well build a business licensing its intellectual property (or suing for damages over it), but its hardware selling business has been finished for quite some time. For the most recent quarter, it only sold about 500 of its own TiVo DVRs a day.
TiVo subscribers July 2001- October 2009(millions, except for Net Additions which are thousands)
| TiVo-Owned | MSOs | Cumulative | Change | |
| Jul-01 | 0.182 | 0.047 | 0.229 | |
| Oct-01 | 0.206 | 0.074 | 0.280 | 51 |
| Jan-02 | 0.246 | 0.134 | 0.380 | 100 |
| Apr-02 | 0.270 | 0.152 | 0.422 | 42 |
| Jul-02 | 0.291 | 0.173 | 0.464 | 42 |
| Oct-02 | 0.321 | 0.189 | 0.510 | 46 |
| Jan-03 | 0.396 | 0.228 | 0.624 | 114 |
| Apr-03 | 0.433 | 0.270 | 0.703 | 79 |
| Jul-03 | 0.467 | 0.433 | 0.900 | 197 |
| Oct-03 | 0.526 | 0.476 | 1.002 | 102 |
| Jan-04 | 0.656 | 0.676 | 1.332 | 330 |
| Apr-04 | 0.724 | 0.872 | 1.596 | 264 |
| Jul-04 | 0.787 | 1.097 | 1.884 | 288 |
| Oct-04 | 0.890 | 1.413 | 2.303 | 419 |
| Jan-05 | 1.141 | 1.860 | 3.001 | 698 |
| Apr-05 | 1.213 | 2.107 | 3.320 | 319 |
| Jul-05 | 1.253 | 2.321 | 3.574 | 254 |
| Oct-05 | 1.308 | 2.700 | 4.008 | 434 |
| Jan-06 | 1.491 | 2.873 | 4.364 | 356 |
| Apr-06 | 1.542 | 2.875 | 4.417 | 53 |
| Jul-06 | 1.572 | 2.846 | 4.418 | 1 |
| Oct-06 | 1.625 | 2.809 | 4.434 | 16 |
| Jan-07 | 1.726 | 2.718 | 4.444 | 10 |
| Apr-07 | 1.727 | 2.615 | 4.342 | -102 |
| Jul-07 | 1.708 | 2.489 | 4.197 | -145 |
| Oct-07 | 1.712 | 2.355 | 4.067 | -130 |
| Jan-08 | 1.745 | 2.201 | 3.946 | -121 |
| Apr-08 | 1.728 | 2.073 | 3.801 | -145 |
| Jul-08 | 1.686 | 1.937 | 3.623 | -178 |
| Oct-08 | 1.658 | 1.802 | 3.460 | -163 |
| Jan-09 | 1.654 | 1.681 | 3.335 | -125 |
| Apr-09 | 1.624 | 1.572 | 3.196 | -139 |
| Jul-09 | 1.582 | 1.468 | 3.050 | -146 |
| Oct-09 | 1.537 | 1.199 | 2.736 | -314 |
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“MSOs” refer to subscriptions sold to consumers by MSOs/Broadcasters such as DIRECTV, Cablevision Mexico, Seven (Australia), and Comcast for which TiVo expects to incur little or no acquisition costs.
They need to bring back lifetime subscriptions. I’d love to get a HD Tivo, but the price + $13 a month for “service” is more than just renting a DVR box through TimeWarner.
Soon saying “doo-doo, doo-doo, doo-doo” to signal the remote holder to fast forward will be even more obsolete than it is now!
They need to quit it with the stupid restrictions like not being able to burn DVDs in the TiVo HD. I still haven’t upgraded my old TiVo becase of this and may just choose some other provider. They deserve to fail.
I still love both my TiVos, but I’d also love to replace one of them with a TiVo HD. I’ve been noticing the gold star ads on TiVo Central lately have all been promoting TiVo HD and how anything else is an imposter. I guess advertising to your own customer base isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Their main problem is that not enough people understand how much better TiVo’s software is than what they can get from their cable co, and as long as you can get a DVR from your cable co essentially for free, they’re not going to be able to compete.
Best Buy in Canada started selling TiVo DVRs this year. (As far as I know, TiVo wasn’t in Canada before that.) I wonder if they’re having any success with a Canadian subscriber base.
TiVo definitely is a superior software to any cable boxes I’ve seen, but even that knowledge is not enough for me to pay for a TiVo over a much cheaper MSO provided box.
Devdog, I think the “people don’t know how much better TiVo is” is part of it, but even people who do (like Robert, and myself, but I was a ReplayTV guy) choose cableco DVRs, in my case because of feature differences. For me, having a TiVo would mean no OnDemand, and with two little kids, thats a deal breaker.
As for the subscriber loss, you’ll see it was primarily from the MSOs category. Those are nearly all DirecTV customers. While I have no data to back it up, lots have likely upgraded to an HD set and just taken the DirecTV provided HD-DVR box.
Short answer: bad price/value ratio.
I like TiVo enough that if they’d have let me transfer lifetime program guide service from one box to a TiVoHD, I’d have gotten the cable cards for TiVo and kept the Comcast STB without the DVR so as to have the best of both worlds. Cables, extra inputs on my TV and shelf space on the TV stand I can handle.
But having to buy hardware AND pay more for the program guide than the cost of the HD DVR rental with program guide, I couldn’t handle. If they had either given the hardware away (arguably something that ultimately pays off with their data services business) or not charged for the program guide or let me transfer my lifteime service, I’d probably still be on TiVo.
I started as a loyal tivo subscriber and owned 3 boxes at one time and told all my friends about them. Then they eliminated the lifetime subscription and I bailed.
So, I built a Windows based HTPC. 4 TB of HD, 6 HD Tuners, auto senses commercials so I don’t have to even fast forward, sends video to every room in the house.
I will never ever look back.
Uh… lifetime subscriptions ARE back. I guess you didn’t notice? And yeah, it may be cheaper up front to rent a DVR from your cable co but after a couple of years you’ve paid more in monthly fees than you would have if you’d just purchased a Tivo with lifetime service.
Also, with a little planning you don’t need OnDemand when you have Tivo. Just record the stuff you’re interested in & watch it “on demand” when you want. Plus there’s all the Amazon/Blockbuster/NetFlix stuff to sate your “I want it now!” appetite.
As European I’m curious about this tv guide of yours.
Doesn’t the american signal include a tv guide? Our european DVB-T/C has an imbedded tv guide, so the reciewing equipment will automatically pick up
“pickup what’s comming” even
Cable company DVRs are part of the reason for the steep decline. The other reason is that there are just more options out there. Netflix and Hulu on game consoles is part of it.
Windows Media Center is a huge leap ahead of Tivo and with hulu.com through http://tubecentric.tv you have the best of everything.
TiVo is just going to have to face the music. The world has changed. The TiVo experience is just not compelling enough by itself (even with Amazon and Netflix) to charge a monthly subscription fee.
I’m very content with Windows Media Center, Tivo has nothing that I need. It’s kinda funny how a company with total brand recognition can fall so far. Can you imagine a day when we say “google something” but we don’t actually use Google to do it?
C, you’ve got the right idea. If I had some spare change I’d go your route, but at the moment I have something that’s apparently rarer than an unlocked cell phone: a non-Tivo, non-cable company DVR. Just about no one makes them for consumers nowadays. Sure my Toshiba might be analog, but no subscriptions, I can burn content to DVD, have a 24-event timer, significant editing capabilities, etc.
Bill, as Abe pointed out, why do you need OnDemand if you have TiVo? You simply record the shows that you want to watch when they are aired. If you miss it, you download a torrent and transfer it to your TiVo via PyTiVo or TiVo Desktop. I’ve never understood OnDemand, unless there’s content there that isn’t available anywhere else. If that’s the case, I stand corrected.
Euroguy, there is a program guide channel, though I think that’s usually a cable channel so you get the right info, but what Robert is talking about is an interactive program guide which allows TiVo to find shows to record and such.
When TiVo first debuted, the amount of information available through its guide data was truly unprecedented (14 days of listings, search by title, actor, keyword, genre, etc.). But that information is now available for free on most cable co DVRs, it’s free with Windows Media Center, it’s free on the internet, etc. The only thing that really differentiates TiVo from the other DVRs anymore is its user interface. While I still maintain that it’s superior, it’s no longer worth the premium price it commands.
Even with huge hard drives, On Demand has HUGE selection and TiVo isn’t going to hold it all.
The beauty of On Demand is you don’t NEED to worry about recording anything. Why do something even slightly harder if there are easier alternatives and you don’t find the TiVo software that big of a deal versus cable company DVR?
Especially for people who have kids, there’s always a ton of content available on both the entertainment and educational fronts On Demand. I can’t imagine ever not having a DVR but I can’t imagine ever not wanting the access to the On Demand options too.
Devdog, Abe, do you folks have little kids?
Prior to having a Comcast DVR w/ OnDemand, routinely 30+% of the capacity of my ReplayTV was used up holding kids shows, and god help me if they’d seen everything in the inventory, which happened a lot even with frequent new show recording. Now, almost none of the DVR storage is kids shows, and there is *always* something new available for them in OnDemand. That’s a huge decrease in hassle level for me. Now, the only things I record for them are the 1-2 shows they like that aren’t available in OnDemand.
Another nice thing about kids shows OnDemand is they have either no commercials, substantially fewer, or just in house promos.
The other benefit of On Demand is there are programs available On Demand that aren’t available live. You can even catch some show premieres On Demand before they air live. Not to mention the movie and pay-per-view options. Tivo’s only hope at survival is 2way cable cards so that they can offer On Demand and PPV videos. But good luck trying to get the cable co’s to sign off on that idea. Tivo is a superior DVR, but the average customer doesn’t know the difference between a real Tivo and a Cable Co’s DVR other than knowing that it’s more expensive.
Not sure with FiOS & Cablevision’s new box, TiVO is even required?
There’s also TV TUNER people use for DVR, but that’s a small market.
I was just looking into buying a Tivo HD. With the current price and liftime subscription it would have been $650 total. I called my cable company to see how much the two cablecards I needed would be. They said $7 a month for the two while their HD DVR is only $10 a month. For only paying $3 more a month and saving the one time lump sum of $650 its a no brainer.
I have Comcast and Tivo HD. The $7 for cable cards is a rip off. They should be free for first two cards, not $7. Also, they charge $15 a month for their DVR here vs the $10.75 I pay (I opted for annual payment) for Tivo service. Now since I don’t care for their On Demand, I get the Netflix integration, and Tivo is a no brainer for me. Sure, I have an initial up front cost, but it’s well worth it to me. I also expanded my capacity 500GB with a DVR expander, which is something my Comcast box could not do.
When I was with Time Warner, I paid $2.49 for a Mcard for my Tivo HD. Reasonable. Now, with FIOS, I have to pay $3.99 x2, as they didn’t have Mcards, so I am stuck with 2 Single Stream cards (not so hot, though I love the FIOS picture). I love my Tivo, though I am really hoping a new box is introduced soon (4 tuners, tru2way, faster and refreshed UI).
I’ve had a Tivo since just about the first day they were available. I was able to transfer lifetime service to an HD machine and would never willingly give it up. I hear my friends complain about their Comcast DVRs and I just smile…
Yes, I have kids. They love Disney Channel. If there’s not new content for them on one of the two TiVos, via the various season passes that we have set up for their stuff, then they don’t mind just turning on live *gasp* TV and watching Disney Channel. In fact, the two TVs they spend the most time watching don’t even have access to the TiVos, although that will change soon, since I just ordered an Xtender from BOCS. (www.bocsco.com)
Lucky, I can add another hard disk drive to my Comcast HD DVR to increase it’s storage too. It has an external ESATA connection on the back of the unit that allows you to upgrade your capacity by up to 1TB I believe.
I spent the summer living with my brother’s family, including my three-year-old nephew, so I learned all about OnDemand children’s programming. Unfortunately, in this case, the OnDemand choices sucked. There would be about three to five episodes of each show available for the entire month. While this is fine for him (he’ll watch things over and over again) it was horrible for whoever has to watch him watch it. The Barney songs I had to hear over and over again….
And he still took up most of the DVR space!
Why is it that in the age of cable, vcrs, dvd recorders, streaming videos online, tv on dvds, tivo, dvrs, multiple televisions in households, that the entertainment industry is still so reliant on who is watching a tv show at an EXACT airtime? Sorry, but the current ratings system MUST END. Most of my friends rarely ever watch a tv show at its original airtime. We don’t track movie interests by who watched Twilight at 9pm instead of 7pm. The ticket sales determine what’s going to get made. Granted ending the current rating system will be a bold move for an industry relying on advertising, but its time people wake up to the technology out there and start making some changes. People won’t want to watch commercials on dvd the same way its presented to us on live television but previews for other films are forced on consumers. They should be thinking along the same lines for commercials…at least in the beginning of a dvd and maybe segments in between episodes. Plus, product placement works on me for certain products like food and beverages. Why are they so afraid to change? I just get so tired of people thinking that because you choose to watch one program at a certain time that you are automatically rejecting another show that airs at the same time.
Lifetime subscriptions have been “back” for YEARS. My S3 & TivoHD have lifetime subscriptions on them.
Interesting, Being in Canada Tivo only recently appeared in some stores. With all the DVR’s and personal computers around this will have a negative effect on TIVO.
Most people I know do not even realize that they have Windows Media Center on their computer and do not have a tuner or the computer hooked up to the TV. If they clue in then this will make it even worse for TIVO.
I have had computers set up doing the recording for about 4 years. 7 TV’s in the house and 4 computer media centers hooked up.
I just upgraded most of the MediaCenters to windows 7 and while it is pretty I am not crazy on the interface(performance sucks on the older computers), most of them are dual boot with Linux which I have just upgraded to Kubuntu 9.10 and MythTV(Which works good on the older boxes). I still have the MythTV linux boxes for recording restricted content and they work well once the setup learning curve kicks in.
As an aside Kubuntu 9.10 is the first Linux version that I have seen that actually has functionality and user friendliness to actually have a chance some level of public acceptance (not that I see it taking any great market share but nice to know it could).
I have to admit that I am watching less live and also less recorded TV and watching more and more content streamed off of the internet. Of course most of that is crappy quality, sound can be off and does not work with the media center remote all that well, if at all.
I seem to prefer when I can watch several episodes of the same show back to back.
Also for some reason I am watching less movies than I use to and am not sure why that is. We have not gone out to a movie in months and months and used to go a lot.
So funny but with all the recording capablities we have that we are do more direct internet streaming. If HULU worked in Canada we would probably being doing even more.
We’d upgrade a lot more often if we could carry over our lifetime subscription. It’s just too expensive to buy the hardware and then spend money on monthly service or a lifetime subscription. We’re just keeping the Series 2 and replacing parts as they break.
We purchased lifetime subscription but now that our Tivo died – again – they give us the following options: send it back for a $149 (+ tax&shipping) repair, send it to another vendor for repairs or buy a new box and forfeit the lifetime membership. What?
Tivo tells us that the lifetime membership follows the unit and not our account. They did failed to inform us of this when we purchased the DVR.
A complete SCAM! We have had no less than 3 returns due to faulty equipment in the last 3 years, unfortunately this last unit lasted just over a year (our last RMA was in august 2008) so it is out of warranty already.
We deeply regret purchasing lifetime subscription and will ditch Tivo altogether. The slow and cumbersome user interface, the faulty low quality hardware, and most of all the latest stab: lifetime subscription not really lifetime at all, but only for the lifetime of something that dies all the time.
If you are considering buying Tivo. Don’t, it is expensive, their hardware breaks all the time, doesn’t work properly with satellite tuners, and you will probably feel tricked and burned after a few years like us.
Tivo still sells lifetime subscriptions–$399, and it was clear online when I purchased mine that it is a subscription for the unit itself–not for me. I’m sad that Tivo is having a hard time, because I love having my service without having to pay for cable. I get enough channels over the air, and can watch most everything else online. Hang in there TiVO, and find a way out of the tailspin.